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Well, here we go (Chad Johnson to Redskins? open thread)

[editor's note, by Skin Patrol] mmford's diary promoted. Use this space to discuss your thoughts on whether Chad Johnson and/or Lance Briggs should be wearing the maroon and black and yellow burgundy and gold next season. Additionally, definitely take the time to read the entire Washington Post article below, as it is packed with info on large changes across the team. Stay tuned, I'm busy today but will get something written up about it tomorrow. According to Jason La Canfora, the Skins are looking at trading for Chad Johnson. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/11/AR2008021102433_2.html?sid=ST2008021 102877&sub=AR

And we're looking at Lance Briggs again.

I have to say, the Chad Johnson move is awesome. I think he would do absolute wonders for our offense and give Jason a much higher and faster learning curve, not to mention one of the best WR corps in the NFL. Imagine -- Chad, Santana, Randle El, Cooley, and hopefully Caldwell? That is a ridiculous set of passing options (not to mention Portis and Betts, and everyone's favorite Redskin Todd "Use The Force" Yoder). I think that will give Jason Campbell a lot of freedom, and Jim Zorn is all about spreading the offense around. I think that would work out beautifully.

As far as Briggs, I don't know how I feel. Rocky Mac is gonna be sidelined for at least part of the year, but I think we're ok with HB Blades. Briggs is ultimately gonna cost a lot of money, and not for a lot of value seeing as we will continue to run a 4-3... We have our OLB of the future in Rocky, who is great. Marcus is aging, and has been hurt a lot, but I don't know if forking over huge money to a free agent is worth it.

So what do you guys think? Burn what looks like a first and third for Chad Johnson? Fork over a huge amt. for Lance Briggs?

I think if we do get Chad, that's our move for the offseason... but who knows. I'm a little nervous, because these kinds of moves have never worked out in Washington. But, Chad Johnson is a WR in his prime and despite all his distractions hasn't ever quit on his team like Moss or TO, and we're going to at least be a winning team or close to a winning team next year unless Zorn is really terrible.

I also think he would be a great compliment to Santana Moss, because of their differing styles. They are both super fast, which would give Cooley a lot of room underneath. Moss could be used on those huge deep balls more because he wouldn't be double covered as often. I think it would be a great move... What do you guys think?

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I'd need to know
specific terms, but I'm against CJ for a 1st and a 3rd and I'm against either CJ or Briggs until I know what the asking price is.

by Skin Patrol on Feb 12, 2008 12:50 PM EST reply actions  

Both would come
for aprox. 1st and 3rd rounders and a monster contract. My only hope is that Zorn knows something about high priced free agents, for example, STAY AWAY FROM THEM.

But i have a feeling thats partly why Zorn was hired, he has no control over these things like say a pete carroll wanted.

We have had great picks the last 4 years in the draft, if either or both of these happen, looks like we'll be going back to the 3 or 4 picks per draft years.

Just to sum it up, we could have 2 #1 receivers, both high priced, one probably extremely high priced, and combined I'll bet they wont have 140 catches. Yeah thats what we need.

Face it, winning seasons will elude this team as long as Dan is in charge. But its always fun to at least try and convince everyone that we can win, even though every other team in the NFC is praying to god snyder never sells this team.

by Sincethebeginning @ Hogs Haven on Feb 12, 2008 1:21 PM EST reply actions  

Briggs
Is a free agent. He will get a big contract from someone... Maybe not us.

Chad Johnson will want an extension, although he has been signed by the Bengals till 2011. He will want another year or two with a ton more money.

I think it's a great idea. Johnson's numbers were still amazing in Cincinnati despite TJ Houshmandzadeh who could have been a #1 in most other cities. I think giving Jason as many options as possible is a fantastic idea. CJ is still 6'1, which is a lot bigger than Moss and Randle-El. Cooley would still be a possession receiver and teams would be forced to spread out. Think about it -- are they going to put 7 in the box when we have 3 WR's? Have to get one corner on Moss and Johnson and Randle El and two safeties ... that's 6 in the box. Portis will be able to run all over that!

I am feeling this trade. Briggs, not so much. We don't need him, especially for cap problems.

by mmford10 on Feb 12, 2008 1:50 PM EST reply actions  

Draft picks: Treat as Gold
Chad Johnson is out because any trade would involve draft picks.  Hopefully! the one major success from Gibbs II will not be forgotten, which is own important depth is and you gain depth with draft picks.  
-----Really look at 2007, with the amount of starters the redskins lost, not only should they have not been a playoff team but they shouldn't have been competitive at all.-----------------

Lance Briggs,
Could be a good addition with questions on Rocky,
He is a free agent which involves cap space and Dan's money.  Plus where is the Cap space going in the next couple of years with possible opt out option.
" That would lead to 2010 being an uncapped year before the contract expires in 2011."  

by dr WNC on Feb 12, 2008 1:51 PM EST reply actions  

Simply Put
hells to the no!! How many times have we been down this path? He's 30 so that's two good years AND will cost a fortune AND draft picks (I have a idea why, don't we build a team a la ravens,patriots, giants,steelers)AND not to mention he's such a team player.

G M Chrysler how many times do we need to over pay for washed up FA's? Yes CJ is good now but if i'm giving up a 1st & 3rd and a boat load of cash I want Calvin Johnson from Det. Young and tons of potential witn none of the bull shit.

by CptChaosSidekick on Feb 12, 2008 1:57 PM EST reply actions  

Number 85
could play until he's 85 and still draw double coverage.  I believe that a trade for CJ is good for a number 2...but a 1 AND A 3?!!  what!?  He's disgruntled, not happily married...

And I wouldn't be so quick to mention the Ravens...lets' try...Colts!

by JustinU804 on Feb 12, 2008 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Fact
Fact #85 would be a steal for a 2nd round pick, but I prefer to live in the real world. The Bengals have made it quite clear they don't want to trade him. Even with dan dan the fantacy football man's fav agent working behind the scene this would be to costly!

Not even mention Ravens huh? Here's a little fun fact for you: Todd Heap, Jonathan Ogden,Jared Gaither(supplemental pick umm fucking wow! thats what happends when you have a good scouting dept),Ray Lweis,Terrel Suggs,Chris McAlister,and Ed Reed ALL DRAFT PICKS!!!!! Lets not forget all the others that left the team in the past  Adalius Thomas, Jamie Sharper to name a few

Even Hellen Keller is aware Ozzie Newsome is an amazing GM and what happends when you use football sence instead of trying to be the best football team during FA!

Where have you been these past couple of offseasons??

by CptChaosSidekick on Feb 12, 2008 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Dude...
Even with dan dan the fantacy football man's fav agent working behind the scene this would be to costly!

He's stealing my rhetorical pattern....

by TexSkins on Feb 12, 2008 7:13 PM EST up reply actions  

GAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!!!
No Chad Johnson!  Players' coach plus west coast offense plus Chad Johnson in one season is a recipe for a 4-12 squabbling showboating disaster!!

No Lance Briggs!  He comes with a chip the size of Lake Michigan and when those guys get paid they take a years off!

=====Curly R: The Redskins Blog=====

by thatguyben on Feb 12, 2008 3:44 PM EST reply actions  

No way
Not for that price. Not at that age. What about a player trade? Everyone is focused on draft picks. No one has said the unthinkable that Dan the man thinks a Moss for a Johnson might be a good idea.

Lance? Cha Ching. Expensive. But would be another rock in the LB corps.

Say it Loud!

by achahn on Feb 12, 2008 5:21 PM EST reply actions  

same old song
Will the Danno/Cerrato machine ever learn from their mistakes?  Give away 2 draft picks & a hefty conract to a receiver who is at or just past his prime, having a ton of cap space tied up in 1 postition (moss & randle el aint cheap), and giving away big bucks to a LB who is at best just past his prime when a rookie mid round draft pick could have a similar impact in the 4-3 offense....  

This smells like Deion, Bruce, Carrier all over again, such a bad move

"It was the best of times, it was the BLURST of times!!!?? Stupid Monkeys!" ---Montgomery Burns

by B.J. Pierson on Feb 12, 2008 5:31 PM EST reply actions  

ouch
Sidekick, I've been here...by your side...ok, whatever.  Anyways, they were all nice draft picks, but continued success (or lack thereof) could be blamed on coaching.

30 y/o WR with "ME" issues?  He is entertaining, and is very, very good-but a 2 wouldn't be a "steal" per se...though I could part with a 2 and a 3.  But I did consider sending little older Moss up river-fine by me.  Everytime I mention the guy it's with a level of disgust-I'm OK with the man, but the football player is a chump...a won't go over the middle-falling down everytime there is a defender within 15 yards chump.  He should return one punt a game to make him a little more useful-if he doesn't scramble out of bounds or fall into the fetal position whrn he sees a defender.

I'll admit that an offense that may very well see 4 and 5 WRs several times a game doesn't sound like a Chad Johnson system-and that's what it would need to be.  Fortunately, he knows exactly what to do with the ball, so he should get 10 catches a game if open...even a reverse and screen if neccessary.  

by JustinU804 on Feb 12, 2008 8:06 PM EST reply actions  

draft picks
I agree, draft picks are vital to a team's success. but, every single player doesn't need to be a draft pick. where would the giants be without plaxico burress? where would the patriots have been without randy moss and adalius and seau and welker etc?

ultimately, the decision is not up to me or us (thank goodness) but i think if we part with a 2nd and 3rd for chad johnson, it's a good deal. we have been successful with our draft picks lately, despite them being in short supply. sean taylor, landry, cooley, betts, rogers, campbell, blades, rocky are just a few of our picks over the last few years who have really blossomed.

i think briggs is extraneous. if we groom HB Blades, we will have him avaliable for when Marcus rides into the sunset. Maybe we should bring Lemar Marshall back? I don't know why we would tack on Briggs given our history and our lack of need. Chad Johnson is a game-breaking, elite player. He is a QB's dream, and those who think an ego can't be tamed at WR clearly didn't see Moss or Owens last year. All you need is a winning team and a respectable coach (or Wade Phillips, apparently).

I think it's a good buy for Chad, a no go on Briggs.  

by mmford10 on Feb 12, 2008 11:34 PM EST reply actions  

Just something to consider...
Chad Johnson was a 2nd round draft pick in 2001 by the Bengals. He's led the team in receiving yards since 2002 amassing 8,365 yards, six straight 1100+ yard receiving seasons, 49 touchdowns, and, if I recall correctly, more yards than any receiver since 2003 in the entire league.

There is little doubt in my mind that Chad Johnson would be a phenomenal receiver on whatever team he plays for in '08, even were that the Washington Redskins. There is also little doubt in my mind that Chad Johnson will have been imeasurably more valuable to the Cincy Bengals than to any other NFL franchise he'll have an opportunity to play for throughout the rest of his career. I say this because I doubt that CJ can produce six more years like the last six he's had, and that's simply an honor to the incredible level of play he's maintained thus far.

All that having been pointed out, what I'm saying is that the Bengals got more value out of their 2001 2nd round pick than any team in the league could possibly get for CJ if the asking price is a 1st and a 3rd round pick or, alternatively, two 2nd round picks. You are 100% correct that every single player doesn't need to be a draft pick (forget the Pats and Giants... where would we be last year without London Fletcher?). However, I think it is always important to note that behind every ultra valuable free agent acquisition is a player who was drafted by someone and that someone, by their own ingenuity, more often than not got more value for the player because they drafted them than the team they're sending or freeing him to.

What complicates the issue further is that there really isn't any way to tell what a small draft class has robbed you of, since who knows whether the team makes good use of its picks. But we can look back at how often we hit vs. how often we missed and extrapolate from there.

In 2004 Joe Gibbs only had a chance at 4 picks, but two of them turned out to be Pro Bowlers (Sean Taylor, Chris Cooley). Coincedentally, they were selected in the 1st and 3rd rounds, which sounds like the asking price for CJ. I would not trade Cooely and Taylor for CJ. I wouldn't have traded Taylor for CJ, straight up. There's a chance I wouldn't have traded Cooley for CJ, straight up, considering that the one costs much less than the other.

2005 was soft at the bottom (very little impact from 4-7) but then again we had no 2nd rounder and no 3rd rounder, but did have two 1st rounders. Both those 1st rounders started last year and the year prior, and one of them is the qb of the future in DC.

2006 was the least top heavy draft of the Joe Gibbs era, with just one first day pick. That guy, McIntosh, started last year. At the bottom were two 5ths, two 6ths, and a 7th. Three of those guys were: Anthony Montgomery (starter), Reed Doughty (starter), and Kedric Golston (backup, but he's started).

2007 was another small draft class. We had a 1st rounder in LaRon Landry, budding superstar in the NFL, and some 2nd day picks in Dallas Sartz, The Hamburglar (who has turned out to be a fine defensive player), Jordan Palmer, and Tyler Ecker. Ecker has apparently completely altered his body type for the better this season and has an opportunity to make an impact after his injury. HB and Landry have already made their impact.

All I'm saying is, under the Joe Gibbs era, we drafted pretty well. Really well. Remarkably well. And some of the guys we lost draft picks for, B. Lloyd and TJ Duckett, for instance, weren't all that good. I don't know if we make a bigger splash with the picks we didn't have than with the ones we did, but I think it's at least possible. Could be the case with CJ, as well.

Just my two cents.

by Skin Patrol on Feb 13, 2008 1:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Eagles Fan Laughing
LOL YOU POOR REDSKINS FANS!! I USUALLY LAUGH EVERY OFFSEASON AS SNYDER ALWAYS BLOWS THE TEAMS FUTURE BY OVERSPENDING ON HAS BEEN PLAYERS AND GIVING AWAY PRECIOUS DRAFT PICKS FOR OLD PLAYERS! I AM NOT STARTING TO FEEL BAD FOR YOU.  GRANTED THIS RUMOR IS VERY REAL! HOWEVER SNYDER IS EMOTIONALLY REACTING BECAUSE THE EAGLES HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THIS TRADE FOR OVER A MONTH. SO NOW SNYDER AND JERRY JONES ARE ALL TRYING TO GO AFTER JOHNSON.....I LOVE IT!! IT MIGHT WORK OUT BETTER FOR THE EAGLES IF YOU DO GET JOHNSON LOL!!! IT WILL GAURANTEE YOU WILL STINK FOR YEARS!! YOU ARE ALREADY 16 MILLION OVER THE CAP. WHICH MEANS YOU NEED TO START CUTTING PLAYERS..OH AND BY THE WAY YOU ARE NOT GETTING JOHNSON FOR A FEW DRAFT PICKS. CINCY NEEDS DEFENSIVE PLAYERS BAD. THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE LOOKING FOR. WHO YOU GONNA GIVE UP? For example Philly could give them their first round pick, Jevon Kearse and Howard or Considine...all trash on the Eagles D, but would be an huge improvment on Cincy's CRAP D.  Also Johnson is 30.  He wants to win now!!!  Jason is going to be a very good QB someday, but get ready for him to screw up bad for the next 2 years. The west coast offense that Zorn is bringing in is not easy to pick up. Jason was great last year because he didn't make too many mistakes. He is going to make a lot more this year trying to pick up this offense. Johnson made it very clear at the super bwol that he wants to win now!  The last thing he wants is a young QB and quite honestly the last thing you need is Johnson yelling at your young QB.  Johnson is just using SNYDER and The Redskins Organization as a pawn right now! The redskins would have to give up at least 4 players just to get under the cap. Then they would have to give up 1-2 more players to fit under the cap once they get johnson's contract. I am not talking crapy 500K to 1 Million a year playes. I am talking 4 million a year players. Just not worth it.......I would be sick if my team did that!!

by Eagles4ever on Feb 13, 2008 9:47 AM EST reply actions  

Chad = 7 million cap hit for Cincy
Bengals are already 8 million over the cap...and if they trade or cut Chad they will get hit with a 7 million dollar hit on the cap this year to absorb the signing bonus he got. So they would be over the cap by 15 million. So that means even if they wanted to trade him that it would almost be impossible

by Eagles4ever on Feb 14, 2008 10:17 AM EST reply actions  

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