Has it really come to this?

by Skin Patrol on Nov 13, 2007 4:30 PM EST in Redskins Analysis

AOL Fanhouse asks Do Redskins fans want Joe Gibbs fired? Simply asking that question in happier times long since past would justified serious analysis for the querier. However, the 2nd coming of Coach Gibbs is still 5 games south of .500 -- unless my math is ridiculous, which it very well might be -- and the question perhaps deserves asking. There are certainly a few fans over at Extreme Skins who feel that way. Here's a perhaps representative sample-list of threads with comments to that effect:

Think Gibbs will be back next year?
Has Gibbs' fear rubbed off on Saunders and GW?
What Coach Would Make You Happy...Youngskin's?
Is Gibbs too nice?
Does Gibbs realize that we don't have "The Hogs" anymore?
The biggest difference between Gibbs Era I and Gibbs Era II

...etc. If ever there was a site that could capture honestly the feelings of "Redskins fans", it would have to be Extreme Skins. They have massive traffic that extends beyond the blood relatives of the site's handlers, which is one of a million things that distinguishes ES from Hogs Haven. And I can truthful-like confirm the existence of at least one Redskins fan (hint: Me!) who has questioned whether we have the right mix of coaches:

[Question:] Finally, the Redskins appeared to have put together an all star coaching staff after the hiring of Gibbs but lately I've been reading a lot of Skins fans that are less than impressed. Do you think you have the right staff in place to be a contender?

[My answer:] No, we don't. I think Al Saunders is an outstanding coach. I think Joe Gibbs is an outstanding coach. I don't know if the two are compatible with the offense; we're 20th in yards per game offensively and 26th in offensive DVOA per FO. That is simply unacceptable with an innovative Hall of Fame Coach combined with Al Saunders, who has a proven history of success. Either they are not compatible or they've both lost their touch, and I simply cannot buy that coaches as talented as them have forgotten the game of football. I'm very against rocking the boat with coaching changes, but those guys need to either learn how to work together well enough to move the ball farther than 19 National Football League teams, or they need to go their separate ways.

Don't confuse that for a call for an early exit of either Coach Gibbs or Coach Saunders, since I'm not yet ready to divorce myself from either, or both. But some people are. And those people are internet savvy.

Fire Joe Gibbs Dot Com says:

Well Skins fans, sometimes it's better to take hold of our destiny and damn the torpedoes, than it is to wallow in the misery of knowing that a once great icon of the gridiron has seen the game go by him. Here we are at 5-4 this season and we all know that the coaching staff has done little more with the team than last season, (5-11). Let's just burn the team to the ground and start over. Let's call for Dan Snyder to man up and look ahead to next season. In order to do that, he has to:
FIRE JOE GIBBS NOW!

Fucking yowza! [Did you know? The term "Damn the torpedoes" is attributed to David Glasgow Farragut, a Union US Naval Officer of note. While most famous for his demand of a charge into sea mines, torpedoes, that had already managed to sink the USS Tecumseh, I choose to remember Farragut as the commander repelled by a single confederate ship at Vicksburg despite having a 38:1 numerical advantage.] To FJG dot com's credit, they do provide an opportunity to vote for the alternative option "DO-NOT @www.firejoegibbsnow.com", though it is abundantly clear what they wish would happen. As The Bog points out, I think they've gone a bit overboard:

That deranged person will sure feel silly when I send him a postcard from Glendale. Right? Hard-fought? All in this together? Right? In all seriousness, this team is perhaps one game behind where we thought they'd be at this point; we all figured they'd lose at GB, NE and Philly, which would have left them no better than 6-3 right now. Still, it would appear that maybe we are not, in fact, all in this together.

To that I'd add that characterizing a 5-4 season as "little more than" a 5-11 season is likely a stretch. Actually, it is 7 straight losses less of suck -- that's a substantial amount less of suck.

But what do I know? Time for reader(s) to decide, and the vote is going up as a new poll: Should the team fire Joe Gibbs? Full disclosure: I am voting no.

Poll

Fire Coach Gibbs?

Just sayin'

44 votes

Yes.

125 votes

No.

262 votes

I don't know.

39 votes

South Carolina is 6-5 right now, a game over .500.

11 votes

I'm just saying, you know, maybe we should give that guy a look?

2 votes

They did beat Kentucky, and Kentucky beat LSU, and LSU is pretty good, right?

8 votes

What? Guy can't get a 2nd chance in the NFL?

3 votes

They did go from 2-6 to 4-4 in the SEC in one year.

3 votes

497 votes | Poll has closed

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From FoxSports.com

I agree w/ the following:

By Adam Schein

The game management by Joe Gibbs was once again horrendous. The discipline and the play selection, in the red zone was once again a total embarrassment, a sad mirror image of the Week 3 meltdown vs. the Giants.

And how in the world does Gibbs go for two in the first quarter after his kicker missed the initial extra point. Bank the point and play the game. That's basic.

Penalties, a lack of focus and poor coaching decisions have been a theme of the losses against New York, Green Bay and now the Eagles.

If the Redskins coach had a different last name, they would be clamoring for change in D.C.

by CptChaosSidekick on Nov 13, 2007 5:13 PM EST reply actions

I'll try

but it is pretty damning stuff.

Joe Gibbs has not managed losses very well, which might explain why we lost those games. I didn't think he managed the Dolphins or Arizona win all that great either, which tells me that either some or most of our games have been poorly managed. As Head Coach, that falls on him.

I think I could go for two in the first quarter, especially after my kicker just booted an extra point. Ultimately that didn't matter.

Penalties are inexcusable and reflect on the coach and the players responsible.

The only part I'll disagree with is the last bit. If anything, the fact that Joe Gibbs is a HoF coach is what increases the scrutiny he gets and deserves with a 5-4 season, especially chasing a 5-11 season. Are we really to the point where a game above .500, with losses to teams that are a combined 27-9, is enough to demand a coaching change? On those facts alone, I think it's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too early for a coaching change, and all Adam Schein offers is our 5-4 record.

You look at Coach's entire stay in Washington, which has been a disaster in aggregate with one bright spot, and perhaps that is a justifiable conclusion. But being 5-4 in the winningest division in the NFL isn't by itself reason enough to change coaches. If that is the standard, we should be prepared to change HCs every year.

Go Register. Or else.

by Skin Patrol on Nov 13, 2007 5:24 PM EST up reply actions

Yes i would fire

Coach Gibbs ONLY because his conservative play is inhibiting the team. The league doesn't favor such approaches, and fortune surely favors the bold. I saw JC's red zone numbers and they are on par with elite QB's in the league-so why is he handing off? I don't like the year that Campbell is having, but I blame that more on inconsistent WR play that anything else. Cooley has more than done his part (GO CAPTAIN CHAOS!!!!), and Randle El is only a capable number 2 at best...hope I'm wrong about that-he's shown some serious flashes this year. If Gibb's took his ever-slowing mind off of the play calling, I'd be happy. He had a team going nowhere leaving it all on the field late in last season-you don't see that much. The men love him and will give all for Joey-G, God bless him. But the lunacy must give way to contemporary and clear football thought.

I don't mind Greg Williams taking over-I love his no-nonsense, hard-working approach. All I truly care about is letting Al do what's he's known for-causing defenses and their coordinators to have strokes through UNPREDICTABLE play-calling and head-scratching originality.

by JustinU804 on Nov 13, 2007 6:04 PM EST reply actions