Bargain Shopping: Some Lower Level Free Agents The Redskins Should Target If They Trade Up For RGIII
by Steve Shoup on Mar 2, 2012 5:04 PM EST
in NFL Free Agents
Email
Print
Now I hope this won't turn into another trade-up debate post, though it is written to show a clearer picture of some of the fallout of moving up. While it is easy to say that Griffin from a cap stand point is 'cheaper' than say a free agent QB, we can't forget the financial impact of those additional draft picks over the next two years vs the free agents that will have to be signed to replace them. That is an additional 4-5 starters or significant contributors that will now need to be filled via free agency. While that is doable given our cap situation, there is downside as the Redskins will be forced to spread out their cap dollars among more free agents, meaning that fewer impact free agents can be brought in. As I said in the beginning though, hopefully we can debate the merits of particular players and not whether or not we should make the trade up. There will be plenty of other debates in the coming weeks about the potential move up for Griffin, and hopefully both sides can use this post as a reference
Now for the purpose for this I'm going to project that it costs the Redskins their 1st, 2nd, 3rd picks this year and their 1st and 3rd next year. I realize that is expensive, and the pro trade up crowd will look to disagree, but there is a reason every national pundit, analyst, or reporter is talking about the Rams 'sitting on a gold mine', and that is because they are. This deal isn't going to follow the antiquated trade value chart, and the price isn't going to drop considerably because every other QB needy team 'decides' to go in a different direction. Finally, if by some miracle the price did drop, it would only be because the Rams overplayed their hand and it went down to the wire on draft day, meaning that free agency will have already come and gone.
So this means the Redskins would only have a 2nd rounder and three 4th rounders over the next two years (yes they have 5th-7th round picks, but those are far less likely to make the roster, much less make an impact, anything you get out of those rounds is gravy). Now for the purpose of this, I'm going to assume that London Fletcher and Fred Davis re-sign (as well as Tim Hightower and Kory Lichtensteiger), and the Redskins make quick splashes with WR Marques Colston and LG Ben Grubbs. I'm also going to assume that DeAngelo Hall is cut to free up some additional money. Now some of these signings could be options regardless, of trading up, now they just have a greater importance.
After the break check out who will be wearing Burgundy and Gold:
QB: The Redskins need to have 3 QB's on the roster, and with fewer draft picks, I doubt the Redskins can afford using a later one on a developmental QB. As much as fans hate him, Grossman makes sense here, given his familiarity with the offense and personnel. He also might be asked to hold the position down, while Griffin learns and develops (that can be another debate as well). In addition to Grossman, I'd bring in either Brady Quinn or Drew Stanton as a younger guy, who could be a solid back-up.
RB: Even with bringing Hightower back the Redskins should add a 4th piece to the puzzle. While they might take a late round flyer on a player, they could also look at someone with more experience. Steve Slaton would be a cheap option that I'd look at. He's familiar with the system, in fact rushing for over 1,000 yards under Kyle Shanahan in Houston. He's also more of a speed back, giving them some variation to what they already have on the roster.
WR: Even after bringing in Colston, the Redskins need to address the future of this position. While ideally they would have used a high draft pick on this area, they are probably now forced to use a 4th rounder to fill their need.
TE: While ideally Davis and Cooley will be the top two TE's, Washington needs to find a third guy. One who can hopefully be a blocking specialist. My guess is this could be another late round target, as I don't think they have the resources to bring in that specialist off the market.
OT: With a lack of so many premium picks the Redskins will be forced to find their RT via free agency. Given the need to spread out their money, the Redskins will need to focus on the 2nd tier group. Luckily Anthony Collins is a very promising option among this group. The Redskins could also look to bring in a veteran on a short term deal for depth. While there aren't any great options right now, from the sounds of it there are some names who might get released. They might not be 16 game starters, but could offer nice depth.
Interior Line: Ideally even with re-signing Will Montgomery and Kory Lichtensteiger, the Redskins would have added a developmental G/C late in the draft, or perhaps they would have still targeted a bigger name center (Chris Myers) and use Montgomery as more of a depth player. Now that is likely to be pushed off till at least 2013 if not longer.
Defensive Line: While I would probably look to move on from Adam Carriker regardless, I would have preferred the Redskins spend some money on his replacement to keep that defensive line strong. Now though they probably should spread their money out and sign a pair of players. One would be Aubrayo Franklin. Franklin was one of the top NT's in the league in 2009 and 2010, but he went to a 4-3 team last year that really didn't play to his strengths. He was still an effective run defender, but they asked him to rush the passer more than he did in San Francisco. He's probably looking for a short term, fairly inexpensive deal with a 3-4 team that will primarily use him to stop the run and occupy blockers. The other guy I'd bring in would be former Philadelphia Eagle DT Trevor Laws. Laws has been a solid contributing DT for the Eagles, but he didn't fit their new wide 9 system as well. He's a little short for the 3-4, but he plays with good leverage and is quick off the snap. He's not a good starting option, but he's a pretty solid rotational option (especially one with a low price tag).
LB: Outside linebacker is pretty well set, but the Redskins will need to bring in at least one if not two ILB's. One of which should come via free agency. While any thought of landing a top guy and sticking him next to Fletcher is out, there are some decent second tier guys. MLB Joe Mays from the Broncos should be a nice decent option. He's not great in coverage, but he's very solid against the run, he's young and he shouldn't be expensive.
CB: With cutting Hall, the Redskins should look to bring in three CB's to not only add a better starter, but also some quality depth. Third and fourth corners are pretty important in today's NFL with so many teams going to 3 and 4 WR sets. Right now the Redskins don't have viable options there and that needs to be fixed. Hopefully they can use their 4th rounder to fill one of the back-up roles. The top guy I'd go after is Terrell Thomas from the New York Giants. He's coming off an ACL injury (which could keep his price down), but when he's healthy he's a very good CB. He's good against the run and in coverage, and he's a taller CB to help cover bigger receivers. The 2nd corner I'd look to bring in is Chris Carr. Carr was just released from the Ravens, after having his best year in 2010. He seemed to fall into the dog house in Baltimore this past year, but he could be a nice low risk, moderate reward type of signing.
S: I think it is unlikely that Landry is back next year regardless, but now the Redskins will have to find his replacement via free agency. The guy I would look to target would be Bears safety Craig Steltz. While Steltz doesn't profile as a top level starter, he should at least be above average. He got the chance to start 5 games this past year for the Bears and he was pretty solid for them. He doesn't stand out in any one area, and is above average across the board. He should at least be able to start for the Redskins until they can allocate more resources to the position in a couple of years.
So there you have it. What's your take on my bargain shopping for the Skins? Which signings did you like and what other names might you be looking at?
Steve Shoup will be covering Free Agency and the NFL Draft for his own site Fanspeak.com, but will provide write-ups on players for the Redskins here on Hogs Haven as well. Check out his NFL Draft Page for more details and updates throughout the draft season! HTTR!
119 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
if we have to go this
Route, I cant say many of these guys thrill me, but begers cant be choosers. I’d would not mind Franklin, Collins, and Thomas. Steve… How much cap space do we clear if we dump hall, doughty, cooley, locklear (not sure if he is still under contract), brown, beck and sellars. Also, I assume even though we have 47 nil in cap space we need to be careful to avoid cap problems in the future.
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
by Redskin44 on Mar 2, 2012 5:44 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I wrote a post for Fanspeak with the savings of cutting all those players
http://fanspeak.com/washingtonredskins/2012/01/19/where-the-redskins-stand-with-their-salary-cap/
That way you can sort of mix and match those players to see additional savings. They will all need to be replaced of course, for instance Beck’s money would go to Quinn. But you are right the biggest thing is to avoid future cap hell. We don’t have a lot of money coming off the books next year, and salaries are increasing so what ever we gain via the salary cap bump will be close to a wash.
Of the list the guys i’d bring in regardless are Collins, Franklin and Steltz. I’d probably try to get Carr over Thomas at CB, with Thomas as a fallback option.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
this just makes me want to trade up more
qb-solved
hb – steve slayton great pick up
wr – ok with drafting 4th or 5th WR late in the draft
te- ok with getting pass blocking te late
O line- with a mobile qb the line will be ok ( all the playoff mobile qb’s had the crappiest )
and your deffensive pick ups sound good to me except at saftey but i dont know what the answer to saftey was even without a trade up
think we will
Need to keep oj, Barnes, and westbrook for another. That secondary is going to get abused like…
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
by Redskin44 on Mar 2, 2012 5:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
the offensive line would still be very shaky and the defense wouldn't grow to be truly championship caliber
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
I honestly don't know what "championship caliber" means on D anymore
Packers, Saints, Giants, and Pats did OK this year.
yes but the year before when the Packers actually won it, they did so b/c of their defense
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Without the pass rush,
Eli and Rogers would never have been in that position
Without Eli and Rogers being able to keep the offense on the field and sustain drives
The pass rush wouldn’t be what it was
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
This can go back and forth all day
by tuckwell on Mar 3, 2012 9:38 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Team sport?
Sounds like what you are both saying is it takes a team to win.
It is hard for me to get past the trade proposal in this post
way too expensive, but i would rather go bigger with O-line maybe Grubbs or Nicks vs getting Colston he has had too many injuries for me to rely on, and i would NOT bring Rex or Beck back under any circumstances, I like bringing in Brady Quinn, maybe Henne, but i might just try and sign Orton before the draft as a backup/caretaker so when they trade for RG3 they have a decent backup or if Griffin is not ready he can start the season
orton
May be kind of a hot commodity. I don’t think he will be around that long
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
by Redskin44 on Mar 2, 2012 5:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Nor will he
Come here with yet ANOTHER fan favorite QB ready to take his job.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
orton/grossman
round 2!
"Women should have three breasts - two in front and one in the back for dancing." -Al Bundy
Orton/Tannehill
Orton/Tannehill would be good, or even Weeden/Quinn or Weeden/Henne.
The reason i went with Grossman/Quinn is that I do think they will be cheaper combined than either Henne or Orton will be solo
Henne will probably get around $4-5 million, while Orton will probably be $6-8. I don’t think they can afford that much, given the need to fix the other needs
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
as for Colston, he's the only FA WR I'd sign and he might even be cheaper than Meachem
I went with a WR since they couldn’t fill that need in the draft and it sounds like it is a priority.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
I know you and others will disagree, but i really think we are going to see the price in that neighborhood
it’s going to cost quite a bit and we really have to prepare ourselves for that type of deal. Even the reports out of Washington are both firsts plus multiple high to mid round picks (2nd-4th round). I’ve yet to see one National pundit think that this deal gets done for less than what i’m proposing.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Horrible deal
No, that is a horrible deal and we have too many holes to pay that sort of extortion. Either let the Rams eat it or make them come down to something fair for both sides.
i don't want to pay it
but that is what it is going to cost
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Steve, I agree.
We need to be realistic about what it will cost. I am a huge fan of RG3, but there is a limit to the price to pay. This discussion has been talked to death, so I won’t add more fuel to the fire, but we all have to agree that the cost will be great. Still, thank you for writing these kind of pieces, despite your possible disagreement with this particular outcome!
no problem
i like taking a long look at both sides
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
that doesn't mean we have to make the trade
Just because that’s the price doesn’t mean we have to be the ones to pay it.
We need at least one QB with experience in the offense.
RG3 will get lots of TC and practice reps to learn the playbook. A free agent QB would not get the same number of opportunities to learn the plays and players. We should wait at least one more year to release Rex.
I would bring in Chad Henne as a stop gap until RGIII was ready
We are sick of Grossman & his TOs, Henne is probably mediocre at best but sometimes you just need to make a change & as a place holder until RGIII is ready I think he is about as good as any of the other FA options. I think we are set at RB with Helu, Hightower, Royster & possibly Torain. With Colston, Gaffney, Hankerson, Paul, Austin & Armstrong I would say lets see what we have with a decent QB throwing the ball instead of going after a 4th rd. prospect who is most likely not as talented as players already on our roster. Interior line is where I would really hope to make improvements. Signing Grubbs & then drafting a Guard early in the 4th, Amini Solatolu might still be available or Kelemete or Nix. On the Right side there will be some good mid rd. prospects still available, Jeff Allen, Matt Reynolds, Nate Potter. CB, S & ILBer are all positions of need that will have to be filled with FAs or late rd. talent. Of course there will be growing pains & positions that we are weak at but after two years we will have all of our picks, we can continue to build a team around a real franchise QB who has the talent & the tools to be an elite (top five) QB in the NFL. The Bears gave up a small fortune to land Cutler & at the time it seemed like a great deal for the Broncos but now that the Bears are past the paying of draft picks & have a legitimate starter & the Broncos have a nice guy as their QB, who actually had the better deal ??
couple of things
I probably should have been more clear in the write up, but I went with Grossman/QUinn due to lack of price tag.
-Torain won’t be back with the team (thank god), so i do think a 4th option will be there.
-That 4th round WR i’d would pretty much guarantee is better than Armstrong and Austin. I think our WR corps should be made up of 6 players, Moss, Gaffney, Hank, Paul and two others probably a rookie and vet.
-I like some of your names for O-line, but most of those are 4th round guys and we only have two of those and could use them on any number of positions.
-The Bears ‘won’ that deal, but mainly b/c the Broncos failed so bad at drafting. Even at the time those picks were considered awful. Had they drafted intelligently, it coudl be a whole other story. Cutler is a good QB, but he’s not elite and the Bears at least had a decent team when they made that move.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
There may be some players in the later rounds that fit the Redskins schemes.
Adam Gettis, OG, Iowa had a good combine 40 which means his 10 and 20 yard splits are also very good for an OL. As an Iowa OL, he is well acquainted with ZBS and could supply some early depth.
by Jefferson1935 on Mar 2, 2012 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
You are right about them being 4th round guys
I like some of your names for O-line, but most of those are 4th round guys
but after we get a QB I think there is nothing more important than protecting him. I could live with the WRs we have if we can get at least one major upgrade in FA.
i def. would prioritize the protection
but get the feeling the Skins want weapons
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
You've got that right, ENsDad27!
I mean, what good is a top tier QB, if your O-line resembles an open door straight to the QB?! We really need an upgrade in the O-line, so whoever we get to be our QB this season and beyond, will have enough time to find a receiver to throw to!
I really like RG3, but I think if the Redskins part with that many high picks, they had better have a great plan B for obtaining some great O-linemen, and some dazzling WRs in FA!! I’m just sayin’ is all!
Rick "the Rebel" Hall
think A armstong would be cheap to resign
. and i think he will be alot better next year with RG3 on the team. defenders blink on a fake qb roll out. instant 6 for us. i think armstrong was hurt last year
No way he's there at 100-1 ...
Armstrong was a bit nicked up last year, but is still the fastest guy on the team! If RG3 comes to Washington, that 50 yard “flick of the wrist” pass he possesses will be targeted at Armstrong at least twice a game!
Why would you want to cut a guy that fast, because he didn’t excel with a nobody like Grossman at QB?!
At least wait till the new QB gets here to see what kind of rhythm the two have for each other!
Rick "the Rebel" Hall
Now the Skins are accused of bounty hits.
This is not good.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
by iH8dallas on Mar 2, 2012 6:27 PM EST via mobile reply actions
The only good thing about this is ...
Everyone who played under Williams’ defensive scheme is probably off the roster now!
Rick "the Rebel" Hall
not Fletcher, or Landry if he's brought back
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Wow
Great job
I really like the Ben Grubbs signing to me he makes more sense then Carl Nicks and today Ray Rice got the tag Grubbs will hit the market. I would really like Eddie Royal as a cheap wide receiver signing. He was drafted by Shannahan in 08 in the 2nd round and only played one year under him and in that year Eddie had 91 receptions and 937 yards after shanny left Eddies numbers took a serious hit. As we all know Shannahan drafts to his offense and Eddie was a pick that fit his offense just like his Westfield high school teammate Evan Royster ( where I go).
Thanks
yeah Grubbs is just a better fit (and cheaper so we can sign other guys) for the Skins, he’s def. my top FA target.
I like Royal but the Skins need a big WR, and Royal is probably too expensive unless they cut back in another area, or deal Gaffney.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
royal
takes banks spot and is a serviceable WR. I live in denver so Ive seen a fair amount of his returns. good stuff.
"Women should have three breasts - two in front and one in the back for dancing." -Al Bundy
Personally
Personally I think y’all should keep the picks forget rg3 and ho for tanninhill good prospect and won’t cost a whole.draft and a half to get. Brees will mote than likely get franchised but not look to return in 2013 great pick up to handle the qb situation y’all face and can teach tanninhill how to ball elite like. Just my thoughts
by Sado44 on Mar 2, 2012 6:34 PM EST via Android app reply actions
I think they can get Eddie Royal
from the Broncos pretty reasonably. Colston, Moss, Royal, Hankerson would be a good group. Plus Royal returns kicks.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Mar 2, 2012 6:47 PM EST reply actions
Royal return Kicks
…I’m down with that. Then we can say “Bye Bye” to Banks. Even if they don’t get Royal, I hope Banks is gone for someone that can contribute than just returns, especially as being mediocore as Banks was. I actually hope they let Paul or Austin try a hand in the Return.
i would def. let Paul return kicks, he was extremely good at it in college
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Let me be one to say what a great job on writing up this post...
I truly respect your presenting information that, despite your adamant opposition to, still represents a basis of the formulation of a possible offseason direction.
And, as one who has promoted the trade up scenario, I also credit you with EXCELLENT targets for our FA wish list. I have been one of the few who sees the inevitable resigning of Sexy Rex, which I don’t have a problem with. His turnovers are the only real negative one can pin on him (yes, it’s a big flaw, I know). But there are times when he is running the offense the way it should be run, with good timing, pace and efficiency.
I love signing Collins, Colston, Grubbs, Thomas and Franklin. A good mixture of stop-gap fillers and solid foundation builders. I don’t have any opinion on Laws, Mays or Steltz. Who knows, they may shock…..
As difficult as it may have been to, not only write this post, but to give it the due attention to research and formulate an actual plan, I give you kudos…nice job…
thanks
i tried to be fair and look at all options. Sometimes it is harder to put a price tag on lower tier guys, since those are the players that the market typically collapses on, but i felt I got a good baseline on most of these guys. It might be a shade conservative, but pretty fair overall.
The one other target that I think you’ll like is Steltz. No he’s not an all-pro type starter, but he could be a Ryan Clark type.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
what you left out was...
your feelings on this roster? Tell me, honestly, how would this team perform (yes, it is speculation, but you have earned a measure of respect for your evaluation), assuming that most of our signings perform admirable, injuries aside….
that's a good question
for me it is def. a number of upgrades (even beyond Colston and Grubbs). The biggest issue is these guys have lower ceilings or are more potential based. For instance Collins could be a very good tackle, but someone like Chris Myers is already a great center.
To me the Redskins could be about a .500 team if the majority of these guys produce. Now that might not be next year if you know Grossman has to start 8 games or RGIII doesn’t hit the ground running, but I think you have a very solid team that can compete for the playoffs in the next couple years.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Yeah, but ...
what happens in year three, when all these short-term FA deals are ending and we haven’t been able to draft guys to replace them?
Duh, we will have our full complement of draft picks...
THREE years from now. That seems to be the fib that rubs the wrong way; a trade up does not remove all our picks for the next five years, or some other ridiculous portrayal/exaggeration of the facts.
Our team will be a young team developing together. The stop-gap fillers will be replaced, and our salary cap issue will not be as it was years ago, given the rookie cap. So, let me ease your mind, Tuck, no need to worry about three years from now….
Correction
we made need to worry if the Williams bounty probe turns to the Redskins
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
there can be no discipline to the Skins...
Williams left years ago. If anything, Williams is going to take the brunt of the discipline, since he has a pattern of repeated offenses, covering multiple organizations. I am extremely disappointed to hear of this. This is the same conduct I HATED Buddy Ryan, the instigator of all this crap. Whatever the league deams appropriate is fine by me – Williams suspended, NO GM fined, perhaps organization fined, HC fined, etc………
Agreed
You can probably name all the people on the team (players and staff) that were here during the Williams era on one hand. This alleged business happened under Williams, and the time to hold the Redskins accountable was when he was still here.
Expos Factos damnit!
IDK
look what ESPN is reporting: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7644139/nfl-reportedly-probe-washington-redskins-bounties
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
it is going to test our depth
a greater percentage of these FA’s will need to be successful, as will a higher percentage of our remaining draft picks for it to all work out. Esp. if 3 years from now Griffin isn’t a top 5 QB (yet, which historically is highly unlikely)
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Yes, that is true...
but I would hope that this would always be the case. A well run organization, with very good talent evaluators, bring in the right people and develop them progressively, whether that be drafted players of FAs. When the players don’t develop, that is what gets coaching staffs fired.
Yeeeeah ... but ...
No front office is going to get them all right. If you’re batting over .500 on draft picks, you’re ahead of the game, and FA signings are hit-or-miss as well (Haynesworth, anyone?). The reality is that missing out on the top picks of the draft two years in a row leaves us low on talent in some positions, low on depth in multiple positions, and having to scramble to deal with the salary cap from all the FA vets we had to sign along the way.
I'm not sure, but I think you just made my point...
unintentionally. Our FO needs to do a much better job and hit more often than previous FOs.
BTW, Hayneworthless was PREVIOUS FO decision….
agree wholeheartedly
thank you Steve. And i definitely think rex is the most cost effective back-up we could have next year. Capable of running the team for a couple games and maybe evening getting a win or two. Obviously nobody wants him playing for an extended period of time, but who wants a back-up to do that anyway…
your welcome, i'm glad you liked it
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Whether its through free agency or the draft...
upgrade the slot CB. I can’t stomach another year of Barnes.
I appreciate your efforts on this site especially for your compensation.
So no comment.
@Callahan_9 on the twitter machine.
haha, thanks i think
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Good post. Definitely advances the discussion in a well needed new direction.
Brady Quinn would make a lot more sense than trying to continue to force Beck into something more than a mullet endorsement. Like Slaton too. How was he at passing blocking for the Texans (especially with Kyle)?
I think WR and CB are going to be the positions the Skins target the hardest in FA, but they could certainly use a bargain CB guy for depth.
Collins seems a bit heavy for the type of linemen Shanny likes (not saying its a bad choice just don’t know enough about him). Does he move well enough that it won’t matter or are there any other more zone specific targets you see possible?
collins moves very well for his size, in fact Bengal fans complain that he's not enough of a power guy for their offense
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Collins was very slow on his pro day and really bad on the 10 yd split.
by Jefferson1935 on Mar 3, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
That's not the same Anthony Collins
here is this guys numbers http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=58312&draftyear=2008&genpos=
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Sorry! This Anthony Collins is moderately faster, especially on his pro day, but still slow for ZBS.
A lot of OL did not participate in the measurables in this years scouting combine and some of the top rated OL did not do that well, i.e., DeCastro.
by Jefferson1935 on Mar 4, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
Quinn will be starting in Denver
barring a shock Broncos trade for Griffin. Why would he come to Washington to be a backup?
Was this titled "why we need Peyton?"
This article is EXACTLY why we should use Dan Snyder’s money to buy Peyton at all costs and use our draft picks to make a solid team of YOUNG starters. To give away 5 top picks to get RGIII is only mortgaging our future again! I am so tired of our great new hopes fizzling. Fans have crucuified Snyder for waste and poor judgement; let’s use that money to buy a QB that is 90% probability to succeed and build a young team around him. We can pick up a developmental QB to learn and then if needed go after Bradford next year. PLEASE do not mortgage the team’s future for an unproven rookie. Would you like to review teh other Redskins forst round QB’s.
You want to build a team around a 36-year-old QB.......
that isn’t even 90% probable that he will play? Please don’t bring in another overpriced, aging vet.
Peyton is gonna play
His doctor says he is as likely to get a neck injury as Eli meaning HIS NECK IS FINE. The problem at this point is his arm strength but all the reports say is arm strength is recovering and I have trouble doubting Peyton. If we bring him in on an incentive laden contract( which is what he would get). Then he’s not overpriced. I too would rather have RG3 but I believe Clevland will offer their 2 first and their 2 and giving up a ridiculous amount of picks to move up 4 SPOTS is just not smart. Everyone seems to believe that Peyton won’t work out and RG3 is a gonna be a pro bowler. Well what if Peyton goes to another team plays for 4 years and wins 2 super bowls and we give up a ridiculous amount of picks to move up 4 spots and he only turns out good or okay or bad to me that seems much more crippling
Build the future,
Not sure that RG III is it. The price tag seems WAY to expensive. Trade down and sign a vet. to get through this year. If drafting RG III only gets a 8-8 record, might as well load up with the draft and look for the franchise QB next year that could come in with some weapons and protection. Trade up next year if need be. (I.E. Barkley)
I agree with trading down
Tannihill or however you spell his name is kinda similar to jay cutler. Both viewed as developmental strong armed athletic ( tannihill more than cutler). Only knock would be accuracy but I think cutler turned out okay.
Tannehill???
Want to see over the next 6 weeks, but I think he is a reach in the first round. I may be proved wrong as the way last years draft went.
Peyton is just a bad fit at this time.
Not only would Peyton have to recover from his numerous neck surgeries, regain his arm strength, accuracy, and endurance; he would also have to learn new teammates and coaches. Peyton lacks the mobility to fit in the traditional Shanahan offense. Do we let Peyton call his own plays and expect all the other offensive players to learn Petyon’s plays in one off-season? On top of all that, Peyton would be VERY lucky to play 4 more years. With all the QB-needy teams (AZ, MIA, KC, NYJ, etc.), Peyton will not come cheap. There have to be smarter ways we can spend the money.
I commend you
For gritting your teeth and writing this up.
I really don’t see us dumping Hall after losing Landry. I really don’t think the coaching staff looks at D. Hall as as big a handicap as most around here. Plus, as much as the defense improved last year, I don’t think losing TWO (under 30) starters is in the plan.
As for the free agents, I love the first two. I wouldn’t mind Carr, as well as one of the safeties from Baltimore. Slaton is a good idea too. I’d also like to know the situation with another ex-Texan – Sage Rosenfels.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
I really think they are going to go hard after a guy like Carr or Finnegan. Not sure it means 100% Hall is gone this year, but I think they have far more questions about Hall than this time last year.
i didn't really consider Carr since I think he might be too expensive in this scenario
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
the shanallen plan
Guys, i really appreciate your hard work and ideas on this site, the knowledge i glean from your most awesome work and hard pondering makes me the “King of the Burgundy and Gold” on the Outer Banks of NC – a mostly Redskins loyal hotbed (but being more and more invaded by terribletowelinosis). My comment is more a macro-view of this plan on which we ponder. Doing stupid, on my own, math, the Redskins had an average age 0f 32.5 yrs when the plan was hired. If you put aside the ages of Rocca and Fletcher and eliminate Buchanon and Sellers (Sorry, Ultimate Warrior), our present age is about 28.5 yrs average. When the Plan was hired, we were perennially against the cap, having to mortgage the future to operate. We are now 3rd from the top in salary cap flexibility – some say 47 million to play with. DRAFT CHOICES!!! The Redskins actually have draft choices!!! We can actually be in the discussion for trading up to a top flight QB and still have a future.
My point here is that this franchise is in so much better shape than it was 3 yrs ago. Any thought of this being a “make or break” year for Shanahan is absurd. Dan Snyder sees the renewed fervor of the fan base and he will be happy to sign the checks his employees deem fit. Mike will be President is in a few years, Kyle will be the Head Coach and Bruce Allen will grease all the financials.
We can build through the Draft or through free agency. If we go for RG3, we can get the free agents we need with our salary cap space. If we go after Peyton, we have the draft to build for the future with some free agents to get us to Nirvana. Dan did not become a Billionaire by being stupid. He just needed maturity and patience – and no vinny cerrato.
I am very optimistic here for the future. We have endured Hell, let’s hope this offseason puts us on the cusp of greatness.
Tiller read this!!!!!
A guy named Tiller responded to a different post,and said"what exactly has Shanahan done?" READ THIS TILLER!!!!! great post
he said
Tiller read this!!!!!
A guy named Tiller responded to a different post,and said"what exactly has Shanahan done?" READ THIS TILLER!!!!! great post
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
by CJHutch on Mar 2, 2012 10:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Thanks CJ
you really cleared that up.
I was actually wondering if there was another Tiller
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
Its what I do
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
i think so but he is still trying to talk him self out of it by putting all these needs in here
by munson21502 on Mar 2, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
haha
pretty sure Jeff George would be in favor of the trade up since he was a part of one
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
hence you trying to throw people off your scent
by acting as though your against it : )P
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
Haha
Nah, I thought that too at first, but you can see the antipathy seeping into his words as the post goes on. Kudos to him for soldiering through it.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
by CJHutch on Mar 2, 2012 10:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
haha yeah the point was to remind people that tougher decisions would be made
and no i’m not getting on board the trade up bandwagon, but i wanted to be fair and show some viable FA options, while at the same time showing that there could be better options.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
I was just joking with you man
I know firmly where you stand.
Nice post BTW, Didn’t mean to steal any of your thunder with the Collins post Thurs.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
no i knew you knew where I stood, just wanted to make sure everyone else did
and no worries on the Collins piece it was well done
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Good List!
QB: I don’t think we NEED another QB. Remember, we only had 2 on the active roster last year. Griffin, Grossman and Crompton will work for 2012. After Griffin learns the system, we can replace Rex in 2013.
RB: With Hightower, Helu, Royster, and Young, this is another position we don’t NEED to spend FA money. A 7th round pick or undrafted guy can compete for a roster spot.
WR: Don’t forget about Hankerson. We just drafted 4 WRs last year. One FA should be enough.
TE: Paulsen is our blocking TE.
OL: Agree with Grubbs and Collins. Both would improve talent and depth.
DL: Jenkins was drafted last year to eventually replace Carriker or Bowen. Carriker had his best season last year – certainly worth keeping at a value price. Franklin would be nice, but how much can we spend on the #5 or 6 D-lineman?
LB: I wouldn’t mind getting a guy like James-Michael Johnson in the 4th round.
CB: If we release Hall and stay away from guys like VJ, Bowe, Manning, we should have the $ to compete for Brandon Carr. If we can’t win the bidding war, Thomas and Chris Carr are not bad consolatons.
S: Steltz is a good option. I also would not mind James Sanders from ATL.
thanks, a couple of things on my thinkings
QB: Having just two QB’s last year was a mistake, and both of those guys at least knew the system. I def. think we need 3 QB’s. Esp. since RGIII might not be ready to start day one.
RB: we will be bringing in UDFA type RB’s regardless, if they beat out Slaton fantastic, but we can’t fully count on that. Our RB depth (or lack there of) has been severely tested each of the last 3 years, its time where we just get smart about it and keep 4 backs. Esp. since Helu and Royster are still relatively unprovenf, and Hightower is coming back from a major injury.
WR: Adding two WR’s is really about the future. Yes we’ve drafted some late round guys, but really only Hank is a viable top 3 WR option right now (though i do like Paul). And he’s coming off a serious injury. Both Gaffney (UFA in 2013) and Moss (could be cut due to the way his contract is structured) could be gone next year. that would leave you with a WR corps of Colston, Hankerson, Paul, and not much else. And since we will be giving up some 2013 draft picks it will be hard to fill the void next off season (since we won’t have much cap room).
TE: Paulson can compete with whomever we bring in, but he really struggled as a blocker last year, drawing multiple holding penalties and missing key blocks. At least when Davis does that he can make up for it catching the ball.
DL: I agree that Jenkins is the starter, but again he’s coming back from a serious injury, and Carricker is overrated and looking to be overpaid in my book. Normally I’d say allocate that money to a better FA, but here I wanted to save money so I split it between two guys. Remember Golston is an FA as well so our depth is non-existent.
CB:I just think that Hall money is better spent filling a couple of needs and not just going for B. Carr. Now if you didn’t have to fill so many gaps maybe it could be an option.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
QB: I believe quality, not quantity, was the problem last year. There was never a time we were without a healthy QB. I understand wanting the insurance of a #3 QB, but it is fairly low on the priority list.
RB: Our depth there was actually very strong (with the exception of Torain). Hightower, Helu, and Royster all played well. If we have 3 QBs and 4 RBs, we WILL be think somewhere else. Personally, I would prefer another OL, DL or DB than RB.
WR: Again, I think you are looking at a numbers game. With Colston, Gaffney, Moss, Hankerson, and Paul…..you don’t have room for much else. Who will return kicks and punts? Banks, Austin, FA?
TE: I can see looking to upgrade #3 TE, but it isn’t real high on the priority list.
DL: Cofield, Bowen, Carriker, Jenkins, Neild, Scott (already re-signed). Carriker just had the best season of his career and is fairly young. It will be difficult to replace his production at a cheaper price. This is not a position we should have to spend too much money.
CB: If we release Hall, finding a starting CB needs to be one of the highest priorities. I don’t think Thomas or C. Carr are certain to be improvements. B. Carr will only be 26 next season, and is certainly starter-quality. With all the other modest signings you proposed, we should have the ability to compete for his services.
Priorities are also important to keep. In order of preference: RT, WR, CB, OG, SS, ILB, another CB, more DE depth, #3 QB, #3 TE. Some of this depth can be drafted this year. Shanny and Allen have done a good job creating cap space. I won’t assume that we won’t have any next year.
I think when at least 1 of your QB's is a rookie having 3 guys is a must
let’s say that Griffin isn’t ready (or Shanny doesn’t see the value in rushing him) at the start of the season. He can develop faster if he doesn’t have to worry about that particular week’s game plan so much and can focus on his reads, progressions etc.
As for RB, despite those three backs being solid, injuries still left us at the end of the year without healthy running backs. We had both Helu and Royster having to play and risk more serious injury in that final game, b/c we didn’t have a healthy back. You don’t need to keep 2 FB’s so, that way we still only have 5 total backs. As for the extra QB it can come from the 8-9 receivers we had last year.
As for those receivers Paul can handle the return duties.
Scott should not be considered a lock, and we should be looking to keep 7 DL (like most 3-4 teams). As for Carriker, his career best year, still wasn’t that good. He lucked into a few sacks but he didn’t come close to the QB otherwise. Which is exactly why we shouldn’t be rushing to resign him. Unless he comes back at back-up prices (and on the medium to low end) move on, there are 20 better options out there on the market.
We will have cap space next year if we cut Brown and Hall this year and cut Moss next year. But much of the Hall money will likely be spent this year and most players signed this year will have increases. I don’t think we’ll be in a bad situation, but without additional cuts (which there aren’t any real good candidates) or restructurings we probably won’t be a major FA player next year.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
When you draft a player #2 overall, you expect him to be ready.
That is an advantage of drafting someone with all the tools (physical and mental). Game planning is a crucial step for a young QB. Getting a cheap #3 QB is not a bad idea, but not because you have no faith in your #2 overall pick.
Royster started last year on the practice squad. I have no problem keeping a RB there if an injury occurs. Hightower never missed a game until last season (just our luck). Torain was a waste. Now, we can have 3 productive RBs with a PS reserve. Spending $ on a guy like Slaton is a waste.
I would rather have a KR/PR that actually does it well. Settling for Paul would instantly make our special teams worse.
Agree about Scott (although he played some good snaps). Totally disagree about Carriker. His improvement was a key reason our entire D improved from 2010 to 2011. There are certainly NOT 20 better FAs available. Adam’s job is not to rush the passer. 5.5 sacks for a 3-4 DE is a high number. He is a quality player and should not cost a whole lot to re-sign.
Allen has created some good contracts. Shanny/Allen have been making smart FA decisions. $47M can go a long way if you do it right. Next year should be better than last year, and the year before.
it's not about having faith or not, but rather being smart
very few rookie QB’s who start from day 1 are successful. Regardless if they were drafted 1st overall or 256th overall. And of those that are successful always have some basis of a decent (or better) offense. So why tempt fate? Give Griffin 8, 10, 12 even 16 games if necessary.
As for the returner, considering how bad banks was, it won’t be hard for Paul to be better than him.
As for Carriker, sacks are overrated (esp. if you remember two of those came when the OT forgot to block him). He got next to zero pressure, he isn’t versatile, and got pushed around in the run game far too often.
Again money will probably be pretty tight next year since for the FA’s signed this year their contracts will go up, meaning there won’t be a lot of extra money.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
What is the market price on Stevie Johnson
and is he in our price range? Rather than throwing the house, the car, and the kids at VJax, we should consider the Bills WR. Santana is low on gas, AA and BB have speed but not much else. I have faith in Gaffney, Hankerson, and Terrence Austin, with Niles Paul being serviceable on special teams. We need a speedy wr with no. 1 receiver ceiling, Stevie Johnson could be that guy, and might leave a little room for us to go after Colston too.
it would be either or with Johnson and Colston and Johnson will cost more
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
I think Reed can hold down the SS starter
He gets exposed a lot playing FS, but he is always doing it to fill in as our only option. He’s not a perfect SS either, but has his good points. I think you can do OK with him there if you are pinching pennies.
I would add a developmental FS type who is a 5-7th rounder.
Steltz is a far better starting option
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Excellent article
I could read these all day. The best teams always seem to find guys who contribute in big moments, without the superstar money. The Snyder-era ’Skins are proof that flashy, cap-eating names are only good if they never get tired, never get injured and are surrounded by teammates that never get tired and never get injured (ie – never!)
As for the names mentioned; I think a lot depends on how much Carriker asks for. I agree he’s not worth big money (if he wants Calais Campbell money, then we should consider signing Campbell, though my preference would be to see Jenkins get the snaps) but if he comes back at a reasonable rate, he could be a useful part of the rotation.
The Franklin signing would be interesting as his value has fallen through the floor, despite the fact he can probably still play at a high level and it would allow Haslett to use Cofield at DE at times.
The secondary is, I think, the next major crisis situation. I would keep Atogwe and try and get Landry back at reasonable money, then try to add another CB (Finnegan? Cheaper than Carr?) because we are short of starter quality. It’s all very well cutting Hall for the savings, but we would then need, I feel, two more starting calibre (sorry, I’m from the UK!) CBs, instead of one. Don’t know much about the Bears S Seltz but if he’s good value, we should consider him.
OL – I would throw out the youth philiosophy in the case of Myers at C. Monty is OK and would be brilliant Int OL depth. We need someone, anyone, at RT so as to let Willie Smith the chance to develop slowly. Licht’s injury is the wild card here but Myers and Monty give the FO a year or two more to draft a C.
Lighter OL from ZBS in college often fall down the draft anyway, so maybe the FO can exploit that and get depth / future starters in the later rounds.
I’m confident we can find ILB depth in the draft. That leaves us with QB and WR as the positions we need to splash the cash on in FA / 1st Round.
StephenBeagrie on Twitter and Facebook.
www.culturebully.com
www.stevebeagrie.com
by Stephen Beagrie on Mar 4, 2012 10:42 AM EST reply actions
no the 13th
today is the franchise tag deadline
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Hey dude I don’t know what your smoking but what ever it is you need to stop! That crack is not what’s happening!
by CutdafateatdaMeatsavedabone Sanders on Mar 5, 2012 5:42 AM EST reply actions
steve doesnt do crack
he just dont wanna give up the farm to get RG3!! i feel the same way but i feel this franchise has to take some kind of chance before daniel snyder starts up the coaching merrygoround again.
might want to take your own advice, b/c I have no idea what you are talking about
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Hogs Haven
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Things to know about NFL men who served in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam
- How Kyle Orton almost cost the Colts Andrew Luck
- Detroit Lions DT Nick Fairley arrested again; now has more NFL arrests than NFL sacks
- Former high-school star Brian Banks does serious time on trumped-up charge, now hopes for an NFL shot
- Former ‘idiot kicker’ Mike Vanderjagt in trouble after accosting junior-high heckler
