Depth Chart Overview: How Free Agency Can Help the Redskins
by Tiller56 on Feb 9, 2012 12:00 PM EST
in Redskins Analysis
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We have a little over one month until free agency kicks off. The discussions over this span will certainly focus heavily on many free agents who would be likely fits on our team. It is pretty obvious we have a lot of holes to fill on this roster, so both free agency and the draft are going to be very important for the future re-build of the Washington Redskins.
In this depth chart overview, I will take a look at the current state of our depth chart, minus our impending free agents who could/will have an immediate impact on next years roster. I will assign a grade following each position. The grade will include both starters, and current depth. I will then do a re-evaluation, based on us signing our own top free agents. Finally, I will look at some other free agents that can help improve our team.
My grading scale will go as follows:
A - Set at the position
B - Starters are good, depth is decent.
C - Starters are average, depth is lacking
D - Starters are below average, very little depth
F - We need both starters and depth
***The following depth chart is without our pending free agents
QB - Beck - F
RB - Helu, Royster - C
FB - Young, Sellers - B
WR - Moss, Armstrong - C
WR - Hankerson, Paul - C
WR - Gaffney, Austin - C
TE - Cooley, Paulsen - C
LT - Williams, Smith - B
LG - Hurt, Cook - D
C - Cook - F
RG - Chester, Cook - C
RT - Brown, Polumbus - C
DE - Bowen, Scott - B
NT - Coefield, Neild - B
DE - Jenkins - C
OLB - Rak, Jackson - B
MLB - Riley - C
MLB - F
OLB - Kerrigan, White - B
CB - Wilson, Barnes - B
CB - Hall, Westbrook - B
SS - Gomes, Doughty - C
FS - Otogwe, Doughty - B
Redskins priority free agents:
Fletcher - MLB
Landry - SS
Davis - TE
Hightower - RB
Licht(RFA) - OG
Montgomery - C
Carriker - DE
Fox - LB
Other free agents:
McIntosh - LB
Buchanon - CB
Grossman - QB
Golston - DE
Locklear - OT
Stallworth - WR
Anderson - WR
Here is a revised depth chart, assuming we re-sign all our priority free agents(higher grades in bold):
QB - Beck - F
RB - Hightower, Helu, Royster - B
FB - Young, Sellers - B
WR - Moss, Armstrong - C
WR - Hankerson, Paul - C
WR - Gaffney, Austin - C
TE - Davis, Cooley, Paulsen - A
LT - Williams, Smith - B
LG - Licht, Hurt - B
C - Monty, Cook - C
RG - Chester, Hurt - B
RT - Brown, Polumbus - C
DE - Bowen, Scott - B
NT - Coefield, Neild - B
DE - Carriker, Jenkins - B
OLB - Rak, Jackson - B
MLB - Riley, Fox - B
MLB - Fletcher, Fox - B
OLB - Kerrigan, White - B
CB - Wilson, Barnes - B
CB - Hall, Westbrook - B
SS - Landry, Gomes - A
FS - Otogwe, Doughty - B
**This assumes prior injured players are back to 100%
Below are positions that graded out C or worse:
QB - Need a major upgrade here. Look to both FA and the draft
WR - Need a major upgrade here(at least 2 players). Look to both FA and the draft
C - Need an upgrade here as a starter. Monty can be kept for depth. Look to both FA and the draft.
T - Need a young starter, or a guy to groom to become a starter in the future. Draft is the best place to look.
G - Could use a quality starter in FA.
**Both guard spots graded out as a B with Licht back, and Hurt as depth, but I do believe a starter could be had in FA to upgrade this position.
Potential free agents who can upgrade our roster:
QB - Kyle Orton, Matt Flynn, Drew Stanton
WR - Dwayne Bowe, Vincent Jackson, DeSean Jackson, Steve Johnson, Robert Meachem, Mario Manningham
C - Chris Myers, Scott Wells
OG - Carl Nicks, Ben Grubbs
OT - Robert Turner
DE - Calais Campbell
MLB - Curtis Lofton, E.J. Henderson
CB - Brandon Carr, Justin King
Take three to four players from this list, and add them to our lineup. Imagine how this could help.
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I don't think right tackle deserves a grade of "C."
Brown and his backup are terrible, I think it is a "D."
and I think you are a little optimistic regarding free safety, OJ hasn’t shown anything.
I don’t like seeing either Jackson on the free agent list, both are potential hazards.
I agree with just about everything else
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Feb 9, 2012 12:15 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
The line was a tough one to grade
because I’m assuming people are healthy. Licht was a tough one, as well as Brown. I understand the questioning around OJ at FS too.
As for the Jackson’s – they are both options, so I added them. I would personally stay away from Vincent, but I wouldn’t mind DeSean
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
Brown was supposedly healthy for the first 9 or 10 games last year when he was statistically one of the worst RT's in the league
And with all the talented CB’s on the FA market who is Justin King considered an upgrade. He’s the reason why the Rams are desperate for a CB.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
there are far better nickle options
ones that didn’t allow 63% of passes to be completed or gave up 6 TD’s. I know he went to Penn State, but he’s awful
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
I also think that Barnes is a better player and a better fit for our system
At tackle then Robert Turner
the Raiders used to run some zone blocking
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Feb 9, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Not a big fan of any of the OT in FA
just added one in to show that the options were really not great
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
I definitely agree with you there
But that kind of forces us to select a player in the draft who can start right away
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Feb 9, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
True
of beef up the middle in FA(Myers, Grubbs/Nicks), and let Willie Smith and Brown battle it out on the outside.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
letting Smith and Brown battle it out is conceding the season
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
So is
Bringing in Orton or Stanton, or keeping Rex (as the starter).
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
by CJHutch on Feb 9, 2012 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
so is drafting RGIII
even if you think he’s going to be of equal impact to Newton, look at how many wins that meant for Carolina. The point is not fixing your RT kills this team. Bringing in Stanton to keep the seat warm for Tannehill does not.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
I don't see your logic
First, I’m not saying anything about RG3. I’m not speculating on any one player. What I’m saying is that bringing in (yet another) below average, journeyman QB is conceding the season.
What you’re saying is that if we don’t draft a RT high, then our season is lost. Makes no sense whatsoever. You’re implying it’s OK to have a journeyman QB, but not a journeyman RT? And your “keeping the seat warm” argument is a little short sighted as well. You say it’s OK to bring in a bum as long as we have a second or third round quarterback. Well, why couldn’t the same be said for an O lineman?
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
by CJHutch on Feb 9, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i guess my point is this
a QB like Kyle Orton or someone of that ilk can be moderately successful. Orton when you break it down is a top 20 QB. Someone like Stanton could be the same thing. You can win with that if you have the offensive line and defense in place. Also if you are doing that to groom a QB like Tannehill then I don’t see it a problem at all.
Jamaal Brown is one of the 3 worst RT’s in the league, and among the bottom tier O-linemen at any position. Willie Smith has some promise, but he’s so raw and he did struggle quite a bit last year. So to me neither one of these guys are even ‘journeyman’ level, b/c neither one are near a starting level.
If you were to draft a 2nd or 3rd round O-lineman they would be starting, whereas a QB would not. So a young QB is building for the future, Jamaal brown wouldn’t be keeping the seat warm for anybody.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Exactly how
Succesful has Orton been in his career? Do I think he’s better than Grossman? Probably, but by the most minuscule of margins. And that’s just stats-wise. But there IS a pretty unique way to compare the two. They both played for the same team. The EXACT same team. Difference? Grossman went 13-3, and accompanied his team to the Superbowl. Has Kyle Orton ever gone 13-3? OK, dumb question. Of course not. The better question is, has Orton ever won a playoff game?
Orton was benched for Tim Tebow, who went on to actually WIN games with the same team.
So, I say again, bringing in aNOTHER below average, journeyman QB is conceding the season.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
wow...
they did both play for the same team, and that team despite Grossman ‘going 13-3’ , Orton beat him out for the job.
Orton’s numbers are quite a bit better than Grossman’s as well.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
We're going down
The wrong path here. You’re making me argue in defense of Rex Grossman. Anyone who knows me knows I cannot in clear conscience do such a thing. All I’m saying is that Orton is not much of an upgrade. If at all. And you keep losing sight of my main point….
Bringing in another journeyman QB is conceding the season. Period. No 2nd round right tackle is gonna make Orton a good quarterback. If you think so, then I don’t know what else to say.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
by CJHutch on Feb 9, 2012 6:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i don't even know what is going on at this point
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Haha
Me neither. Believe me, I NEVER intended to put Rex Grossman in any kind of positive light.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
You’re implying it’s OK to have a journeyman QB, but not a journeyman RT? And your "keeping the seat warm" argument is a little short sighted as well. You say it’s OK to bring in a bum as long as we have a second or third round quarterback. Well, why couldn’t the same be said for an O lineman?
I’d much have a highly rated QB, who could project to be great, than draft a RT, who is better suited to play LT, and you has obvious problems with speed rushers
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
i do
but I don’t think your two options are a pair of guys that were awful last year. Smith has a nice future, but he needs to compete with guys who are actually good.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
who can't beat out Brown?? That isn't exactly a high water mark.
But to answer your question, i’m with you when Willie Smith shows that he is capable of being a 16 week 60-80 play a game RT. We did not see anything remotely close to that this past year.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
he was a undrafted free agent
what do you expect??? the guy did not play bad and he has room to grow and develop. And Despite what you may think Brown can hold down the RT spot until Smith beat him out or they get another option.
by Highspeed30 on Feb 9, 2012 6:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't expect much
I’m not the one suggesting that we consider him as a starter.
And giving up 3 sacks, 10 hits and 7 pressures in 151 pass blocking opportunities is pretty bad.
As for Brown he was awful? What basis of defense do you have? He was among the league leader in sacks allowed and he didn’t even play a full season.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
In all fairness to the kid
he didn’t have that chance. It’s very tough for an undrafted college kid to make that transition, even with a full offseason of mini-camps and OTA’s. Smith, to his defense, got none of this, and still did a nice job.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
i'm not denying that (other then the nice job part)
I didn’t expect Smith to show much, and we saw even less than that. What i’m saying is he can’t be counted on as a viable option until he proves it.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
How cam you not say he did a good job considering the circumstances?
He beat out a ten year vet, who was know to be an above average pass blocker, and was part of a unit, that from weak 11 one, had a 100 yard RB each game, and averaged 85 more total yards per game that the first 10 weeks of the season.
Considering the circumstances, I thought he showed very well.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
he beat out a vet who was playing poorly and who had no future with this team
during that time the Redskins were running against some of the leagues worst run defenses, and against the Giants their backs were stopped for under 3 yards a carry.
He gave up way too many sacks/hits/pressures to be considered a good job
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
agree, it's hard to rate people who are injured
but I’d probably round down and not up to identify possible problems,
I also agree on the Jacksons – no to Vincent and yes to DeSean.
So let me get this straight,
Atogwe and Doughty got the same grade as Kerrigan and Orakpo, and Helu and Royster got a C?
Helu and Royster were awesome.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
Helu and Royster alone got a C
and part of the reason was they’re the only two on the Roster if Hightower is re-signed. We need more than 2 RB’s in the NFL. As you can see, they jumped to a B when Hightower was added.
If, and this is a big IF, OJ can regain his old form, then yes, I give them a B.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
I think you got the backups backwards at the safeties,
Gomes is a little better at coverage
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Feb 9, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
but they can go either way; which is a good things. Don’t forget, at Nebraska, they used Gomes in the box a lot, almost as another LB.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
I like him as a backup strong safety
Let us just say that he is the third safety
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Feb 9, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
He's also versatile enough to line up as a dime CB if needed
which I like, and also along the lines that you eluded to as him having good coverage ability.
I think Gomes was a very valuable addition to our team last year, and will only get better.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
I agree.
Did he force any turnovers this year? He was great with big INTs and forced fumbles at Nebraska.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
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We really need help at middle linebacker
London we’ll be back otherwise, we are in deep trouble
Riley is now one of my favorite players, good to see a player who could change my mind for the better by his play on the field.
But we don’t have backups for either of them right now. I guess we need to sign fox as well
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
Yeah, I agree
which is why re-signing a guy like Fox could be a need. He’s not great, but he can back both MLB spots, and play ST.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
Yea, MLB is a big problem
Perry Riley stepped up nicely, but if either him or 59 go down…SCREWED (not to mention Lou Spanos is gone).
"Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen." --Homer Simpson
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by Kevin Ewoldt on Feb 9, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
even if we don't sign all our own FA...
their replacements will raise the grade of each position.
The way I look at your breakdown is this – LOTS OF "B"s. Meaning, a decent roster. Plenty of youth throughout.
Missing one piece – QUARTERBACK!!!!!!!
It is the most important decision of the offseason. I am not one for overstating, but this is very apparent to me. This decision will determine how long the Shanahan regime will stay…
I agree
I like some of the replacements guys better as starters, and then have our guys as depth. Ie. Monty and Licht – both could be backups, if we signed Nicks/Grubbs, and added a C in the draft.
Also, Campbell could be a replacement for Carriker.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
we have agreed on these point many times before...
that is why I am not promoting an idea that this team is so far away. I can’t see it. This team just needs a little polish…
Yep, I'm with ya again
but it is imparitive we re-sign some of these guys first, or you can see how it could look.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
This was a good exercise and it would be a nice repeat after free agency signings, but before the draft. The Team
is likely to take that approach. Position of need or best player available would pivot on that question in most rounds. The success of the draft would change what the Team could do in 2013.
by Jefferson1935 on Feb 9, 2012 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
I thought Monty wasnt that bad last year
Didnt even give up a sack all year either if I read another site correctly.
Montgomery is our most reliable lineman so i’d go B especially since Chester and Licht can both play Center too
Carriker and Jenkins is an A
Landry and Gomes is a B
Where’s Lorenzo Alexander? He makes the Kerrigan-Alexander spot an A
The rest seem about right
Alexander did play much last year
besided ST. I think he got overtaken by both White and Jackson on the depth chart. I can’t justify giving Carriker and Jenkins an A, since Jenkins has yet to play a meaningful NFL down.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
Tiller what do you think if we trade our first two picks from this year for RGIII?
Then how do we address OT needs in the draft? Trade up again? Not a fan of that.
That's the tough question these days kilbyman
Here is what I would do:
I would improve the interior of our line in FA with 2 new additions: I like both Nicks(NO) and Grubbs(BLT) at guard, and I would even consider Myers(HOU) at center. Nicks and Grubbs are young, and would fit nicely into the re-build. Myers, although he’s is 30, would be an upgrade to Monty.
If we ended up trading our 1st two picks for RG3, I would invest the 3rd in a center like Molk or Jones(if we didn’t get Myers in FA). I would let Willie Smith and Brown fight it out for the starting RT roll. I would also add a WR like Criner or Fuller with our 4th round pick.
Another option would be to offer our 3rd, and one 4th to move back into the 2nd for a RT like Potter or Adcock. I’m really not a huge fan of this one though.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
I really don't see
The signing TWO new guards in FA, a year after singing Chester
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
I kind of meant one of the other
That’s why a lot of the time I list them like this: Grubbs/Nicks
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
You could get Adcock with the 3rd or possibly even the 4th
he is only highly thought of by fans, slow & ponderous.
Ughh......IDK
I think he’ll show better than you think at the combine.
We’ll see though.
My favorite RT prospect is actually Potter.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
he's not invited to the combine
which is pretty shocking
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
He wasn't invited to the Combine
that alone should give you an idea of how talented he actually is. Watch his tape & then let me know what you think….3rd or more likely later.
I would do it a little different
If we dont have another pick until the 3rd rd I would look to add a WR with that pick Brian Quick, Marvin McNutt, Jeff Fuller, Criner. then with the 4th rd maybe get Molk i think he will last til the 4th and maybe get a CB with the other 4th or TE like Ladarius Green
Interesting analysis, and suggests we are likely to be very competitive
with a decent quarterback. I question the A for Landry. Laron was terrific, but it is likely that he will never come back 100%, or even 80%. Add in questions about Atogwe’s health, and a lack of enthusiasm for Gomes and Doughty, and you are left with safety as a potential disaster area. I notice that your grades for the O-line – 3 Bs and 2 Cs – suggest that it is no longer a disaster area. WR is a bit of a mystery because of Hank. I just read an article today that suggests V Jackson will likely be a free agent.
I am of the belief
that when healthy, our line is not that bad. Could it use an upgrade to certain positions?……….yes, but I don’t think we are as bad as some people make it out to be.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
Tiller i appreciate your breakdown and it is very interesting when you see it written out but some things don't compute for me
Now I get why we get an F for QB (esp. if Rex isn’t there and you are only looking at Beck) as our QB play was among the league’s worst last year. But RT you have as a C, despite our production being among the worst in the league last year.
In fact you have us at 3 B’s and 2 C’s on our line, despite it being a constant struggle all season last year. Now I know you are assuming Licht is back healthy, but is that really a B, because of 4 games last year? What about his previous 3 years in the league when he wasn’t very good. And if you are assuming good health, why the 3 C grades for the WR’s? If Moss is projected healthy and Hankerson, that is more talent and potential than Licht, Brown etc. (overall I agree with the C ratings for the WR’s but they don’t seem to fit with the ratings at other positions).
On defense you have B ratings across the board for the front 7, yet this team was 18th in rushing defense last year. Again I get you are assuming health, but its obvious we didn’t have the depth last year, so shouldn’t that be in question again along the DL? And in the secondary you are pretty optomistic about our depth and talent, despite backups like Barnes/Gomes/Doughty struggling and hall having a bad year.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
good points - I think Tiller had just a touch of Kool aid when grading
not a lot of Kool aid, just a little.
I think rex is posing as Tiller and thats that 5-11 team that nobody wanted to play at the end of the year.
by future is now on Feb 10, 2012 1:51 AM EST up reply actions
haha
That team, especially in the run game, was starting to click at seasons end.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
not against the Giants
yeah we ran on the Eagles, Vikings and Patriots well but to me a good running game also works against good defenses and we didn;t do that.
Great points Steve
I’ll try and address each the best I can:
The RT spot I gave a C to because I feel Brown and Smith(or Smith and Brown), can get the job done. I really like Willie, and saw some really positive things from him last year; and that was on the blind side. I think he can do very well as our RT. He did beat out a pretty solid pass-blocking OT in Locklear last season. I think he has good feet, a one hell of a nasty hand punch. I think he guesses a bit too much, and tends to be a little bit of a waist bender, but they are all correctable IMO, so that is why the RT got a C.
As for Licht, you know I liked him 2 years ago, and I thought he was really solid for us before injury. Now I understand the injury, and him coming back 100% is still a question, but I did note that in my grading system. I also like Hurt as depth, and I think if he could ever whip himself into shape, he could be pretty good. I was amazed at how good his feet were for such a big guy. He’s still a project, but I like the potential. For me, a B is defined as Starters are good, depth is decent, which I believe is the case at both guard spots(as Hurt can back up both places).
The WR grades are pretty clear IMO. As things stand right now, Gaffney is the teams best WR. Moss has lost a step, and is not the player he once was(kind of what I feared would happen when we re-signed him last season). The rest are totally unproven, so IMO, a C is fair.
On defense, like the rest of this model, yes, I am assuming health. I really like the front 3 with Carriker(if he re-signs), or even a guy like Campbell. I think Bowen and Coefield are very good, and will only get better with more time in the system, so that B, I believe is very fair. The depth is definitly a question, and a healthy Jenkins can go a long way in solidifying the depth. I also like Neild, and what he brings to the table, so I gave him some value too.
MLB is where it was tough. Without re-signing anyone, we were obviously an F. With Fletch back, and a solid backup or two, I put us at a B. I though Riley really came into his own in 2011, and is only going to get better. The depth is definitly a question, and a healthy Jenkins can go a long way in solidifying the depth.
The secondary with a healthy Landry and OJ can be as good as it wants. The big if is health. So yes, I dod rate them fairly high when health is not in question. I like the depth also; especially Gomes. I know you not a fan of Hall, but he can get the job done. I thought Wilson did a heck of a job for us last year. Doughty is a back-up, and should be no more than that. He’s good depth, and can play ST. Barnes’ play was up and down, but he offers decent depth.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
routt is pretty awful, he committed 17 penalties this past year
he’ll make some big plays, but makes some dumb mistakes as well. I’d say there are about 10 better CB’s on the open market.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
As a guy who still watches the Raiders as much as possible
I have to agree… run–run very fast away from Stanford
on the other hand, if there was some way to get branch then you have to do it
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Feb 10, 2012 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
I'd question this
CB – Hall, Westbrook – B
Hall is a loser whose only outstanding ability is getting INT’s and running his mouth. Other than that he can’t cover. Westbrook is still an unknown. To give both a “B” rating is ridiculous. The hole in the defense is the secondary….both at CB and Safety.
Hall get's beat, but he also makes plays
say what you want about him, but I think “loser” is a bit harsh. I’d say Hall is above average, and Westbrook is certainly depth, so they fall in the B catagory.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
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