Shanahan & Fisher Relationship = RG3 a Redskin
by Jake McCormick on Feb 22, 2012 2:46 AM EST
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I don't know what you guys think but I think that the fact that Shanahan and Fisher are such good friends really helps us when it comes to trading up with the Rams for RG3. If you do your research you will see that they are REALLY good friends and that Fisher will give Shanahan the last say when it comes to offers. Now don't get me wrong. I don't think that Fisher will sacrifice picks (aka if the browns give a better of then Fisher will take it) BUT I do think that Fisher will give Shanahan all the opportunities he can to make the trade and I don't think that the power of that can should go un-noticed. The Browns clearly have more picks to trade with BUT they also have a lot of holes to fill in their team, have Colt McCoy who they might be willing to give one more year (and if that doesn't work out draft a guy like Barkley), and Heck and Holmgren have been known to draft the BPA when it comes to the draft. I think that that means that the skins have a legit shot at landing RG3 by trading with the rams at #2.
It all comes down to the friendship that Shanahan and Fisher have and that extra opportunity (or two) that we get to make the trade we want/need.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/2007-11-15-2164344103_x.htm
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1059953-nfl-draft-2012-michael-lombardi-on-redskins-rgiii-and-peyton-manning
http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2012/2/9/2787505/2012-nfl-trade-rumors-washington-redskins-st-louis-rams-draft-robert-griffin-iii
http://profootballzone.com/nfl/robert-griffin-iii-wont-fall-past-the-second-pick/
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As bad as St. Louis needs a LT
friend or not I think the Rams ask for way more than the pick is worth. I like what Shanny /Allen have done with FA’s and not over paid for their ability I hope that continues with the draft. Set what they’re willing to give in compensation and not exceed it.
so u liked having rex grossmen and john beck as your only options at qb????
if they do that again they both will be jobless imo
by munson21502 on Feb 23, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
while they might be friends
fisher wants to keep his job he will take the best offer for the second pick for example the browns could offer 2 firsts in 2012 knowing the skins cant match the offer their is no reson to call.I wouldnt be supprised if they tagged and traded landry because of the greg williams conection that being said I hope we do land rg3 at a reasonable price
Fisher could turn that second #1 into Mike Wallace
after taking Richardson or Blackmon….that gives Bradford some weapons in that Dome
adam schefter today reported that the steelers are going to be vulnerable to someone taking mike wallace
he said that their cap issues are going to allow someone to get wallace if they want to give up the first round pick
by Jake McCormick on Feb 22, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
Talk of the Ravens signing Wallace
I read somewhere about the Ravens signing Wallace to a huge up front contract that the Steelers wouldnt be able to match. Since the Steelers wont be able to franchise Wallace, it would take up too much cap room, he will still be a restricted free agent. The Ravens could make him an offer and if the Steelers dont match it then the Ravens would have to give up their late first round pick, if thats the level Wallace is tendered at as a restricted free agent.
You know what your getting with him, he is a proven player in the league, unlike all the rookies in the draft. They would still have to pay him big money, but they would any receiver they signed. He would be what Torrey Smith was for them times ten. It would allow Torrey to move into the slot where I think he would be more comfortable, or put Smith and Wallace on the outside and Boldin in the slot to go over the middle.
The biggest positive would be that theyre taking away a huge weapon from their biggest rival.
The Steelers on the other hand, might not be inclined to match a huge offer to Wallace. The Steelers have a very deep, young receiving group with alot of talent. I’ve heard from alot of Steelers fans that think Antonio Brown is better than Mike Wallace, mainly a better route runner but a more complete receiver. Theyve got Emmanuel Sanders too who they’re high on. They might think he’s ready to step up into a starting role and decide not to pay Wallace what he can get on the open market.
there are NO "poison pill" contracts allowed...
anymore, under the new CBA; where teams structure the contract with extravaggant bonuses/ front loaded monetary type of structures….
you can front load bonuses still as i understand it
I just don’t think you can do those crazy things where if a player plays a certain number of games in a particular state his contract becomes fully guaranteed.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
My cap on trading for
Griffin is giving up this year’s 1st & 2nd and next year’s 1st, anything more would be too much of risk. And in the end, I don’t think that will be enough.
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
That's about where I'm at: swap firsts plus a 1st and 2nd
For a potential franchise QB with upside, I think that’s fair.
Would love if we could include a player instead of next years 1st (DHall, Cooley), but that might be unrealistic.
that should do it
that first next year will still be a very high pick…this thing isn’t improving over night…the Panthers with Newton only won 5 games too…of course they are calling Newton’s coach a success…Shanny will be slammed if he gives up all of the draft picks and goes 5-11
my cap would be adding the extra 4th this year, and the extra 5 next year
maybe a 3rd rounder next year and thats it
by munson21502 on Feb 23, 2012 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
2012 1st, 2nd and 2013 1st and 4th rd should get the trade done, The Browns are not going to trade up, but i would even throw in Santana Moss in that deal.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXYt-Gv5-9o
i think this kid has all the tools and will be a very good Pro and worth the trade
why would they want Moss?
He is a declining WR who they will haave to pay $4.5 mil next year.
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
If you go to the Browns blog page...
they are all saying that they could trade their two first round picks this year, as well as their second this year and that would beat the trade that you are suggesting…
by Jake McCormick on Feb 22, 2012 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry.
I guess I should ask why you think the Browns won’t trade up first. So why do you think they won’t trade up?
by Jake McCormick on Feb 22, 2012 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
The Browns could offer both 1st and their 2nd rd pick this year but
that is not how their front office operates Holmgren has gotten a veteran backup Qb to be his QB twice in GB, and in Seattle. and that is a hefty price to pay just to move up 2 spots, in essence if they get into a bidding war with a team like the Redskins or Miami the cost for moving up 2 spots may get too high. But at the end of the day they still got a young QB with some promise on the Roster with only 21 starts and no talent on offense to really evaluate McCoy. If RG3 was there they may take him cause they like BPA approach but if not then i think they would be fine with Blackmon, or Trent Richardson Hillis is a FA
exactly what 'promise' does Colt McCoy have?
If McCoy was on the Skins would you really be against trading up for RGIII?
And what veteran backup did Holmgren get in Green Bay? Brett Favre was brought in by Ron Wolf not Holmgren, and Favre was just 1 year out of college, with 4 attempts (2 of which were intercepted) to his name.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
I know that Holmgren was not the GM with the Pack with Farve but he had some type of input into getting him and if he did not he learned from it and did the same thing with hasslebeck.
And if i McCoy was on my team and i had the 4th pick in the draft with the 22nd pick also NO i would not trade up, the guy only had 21 starts, look at the first 21 starts for Drew Brees and see if you thought he would turn out to be a future Hall of fame candidate his stats was worse than McCoy. And the Browns lead the league in dropped passes and they have zero weapons on their team so how can you evaluate him???
just like Jimmy clausen nobody can honestly say the guy is a bust he have not started a full season or been given the chance to really play and get better.
couple of things
Ron Wolf the Packers G.M. brought in Favre, Holmgren had zero to do with that.
Yes Drew Brees wasn’t the QB he is now, and you can point to other QB’s who struggled early, most of those (including Brees) had more tools and hype.
i’m not sure where you got the Browns might have led in drop passes, but actually McCoy’s drop percentage (7.77%) was lower than Aaron Rodgers and 7.98%, and in the neighborhood of Matt Ryan (7.56%), so that really can’t be blamed for his low completion percentage. In fact PFF has an accuracy percentage where they eliminate any dropped passes, batted passes, spiked balls, thrown away balls (to avoid the sack) or passes that came out as a guy was getting hit, and McCoy tied for 23rd out of the 36 QB’s that qualified (took at least 25% of their teams snaps). By comparison Grossman is just three spots behind him.
You are right Clausen is a bit of an unknown (though McCoy has twice as many games), but that didn’t stop the Panthers from taking Newton last year. They could have traded back, or taken A.J. Green as a weapon for Clausen (or a stud defender) but they weren’t going to let Newton go by. And that was with more already invested, and less data to work with.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
the Panthers mainly got a new QB cause they had a new coaching staff
with a brand new coach they wanted to get their own QB, as much as people want to bash McCoy he still dont have enough games under his belt to evaluate and really it is only 13 games in the WCO system that Shumer brought in this year, without the benefit of a offseason and no weapons to speak of, no WR’s and no consistent running game so it would be wiser to not trade up from the 4th overall pick and just take BPA whether it is RG3, Blackmon or Trent Richardson cause all 3 fill Major needs for them they just need playmakers all over their offense. with the ability to get 2/3 Major needs filled in the 1st rd they could go Richardson and Kendall Wrightand 2nd rd RT Zebrie Sanders or Blackmon, Lamar Miller and 2nd rd DEVinny Curry, or Blackmon, DE Whitney Mercilus, and 2nd rd Sanu.
But as much as people may want to think the Redskins have the same options they do not. cause you dont have 1 viable QB on the Roster, nor will you be able to get a MAJOR need filled at the #6 spot. The Redskins MAJOR needs are QB,QB,QB,QB,QB and then WR in that order. there is no QB worth drafting at #6 or #39 so moving up is the best option to fill that Major need. yes their are some problems on the offensive line which can be dealt with in FA and the draft and with futher development of current players Smith, Hurt. but they are not MAJOR needs, getting a CB is NOT a MAJOR need for the Redskins it would be nice but not a MAJOR need. And I have heard Shanahan talk about needing to have pieces around a QB, and when you couple that with Kyle Shanahan saying they need a playmaker WR i think it is clear that QB and WR are the 2 things they will look to address in this draft.
Since when is OT not a major need? Jamaal Brown was AWFUL
Brandon Weeden is likely available at 39 and well worth drafting.
The Browns might balk at the demands for RGIII, but that will only be if they plan on taking Tannehill at 22 or Weeden at 37. They aren’t going to just hope and pray that McCoy is the answer.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Feb 22, 2012 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
I will take that bet
The Browns are NOT going to take a QB if it is not Luck or Griffin in first 3 rds. they are going to bring in a veteran QB to compete with Colt McCoy or to start. like i said McCoy only has 13 starts under Shurmur and the WCO, most are talking as if dude been starting for 3 straight seasons with the same results.
you keep talking these guys up Tannehill, Weeden, and Foles they are NOT going to be starters in the NFL and if so they will be in the bottom 1/3 of QB’s
why are they not going to be starters in the league?
they are better QB prospects than the majority of QB’s taken in recent drafts.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Feb 23, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly
Colt McCoy is not an elite QB. If everyone is so convinced that RG3 is then the Browns will want RG3. All of you trade up people cannot have it both ways. Either RG3 is sooooo good that we should mortgage the future for him, in which case so should other teams, or he is not worth taking because you have Colt McCoy. Haha, which is it?
by Jeff Bernard on Feb 23, 2012 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
The Browns are NOT in the same boat as the Redskins
the Redskins dont have ANY viable QB options, they still have Colt McCoy whether you think he is good or not he only had 13 starts under the WCO without a full offseason and NO weapons or running game, so how can u say he is a good option at QB or not??? also the Browns MAJOR needs are playmakers all over offense with WR,RB as MAJOR needs and QB as a possible need. so the Browns are sitting there at 4 with the chance to get a MAJOR need met whether or not a team trade in front of them or not. Blackmon, Richardson or RG3 will be there to take at 4.
The Redskins are NOT in that position no MAJOR need will be met at 6 no matter what, Reiff NOT a MAJOR need, Claiborne NOT a MAJOR need, Richardson NOT a MAJOR need, maybe Blackmon fall to 6 spot which would fill a MAJOR need but that is it. And i already dismissed this mortgating the future BS cause that aint true either, if mortgaging the future net me 2 SB like the Giants then sign me up.
by Highspeed30 on Feb 23, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
there is no planet that RT (or LT for that matter) is not a major need
we had one of the worst offensive lines in the league.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Feb 23, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
The Redskins already drafted a guy to play LT in 2010
Trent Williams is fine at LT, there is NO reason to draft another LT in the top 10. the Redskins have people that can play on the offensive line, they have some pieces to work with, guys to develop. WHO do the Redskins have to Develop at QB??? and in my mind it is no use in going after 2nd rate talent at the most important position if i am going to draft somebody. cause some of the same resources that would be used in a trade up for Griffin III would be used on QB anyway, a 2nd rd pick this year and a 1st rd pick next year on one of the “top QB’s” next year so why not just get the ball rolling now on a superior QB prospect?
who do the Redskins have that can play on the offensive line?
and if they have said players, why aren’t they playing/productive now?
RGIII isn’t the only QB in the draft. And even if god forbid the Redskins had to take a QB in the 2nd round (Weeden) and a QB in the first next year (Tyler Wilson) they’d still be in a better position b/c they’d have 2 QB’s plus Riley Reiff (and any additional picks it would take to trade up).
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
where are you getting these additional picks to move up??
the line have players you may not like them but they can get the job done you dont need 5 all pro lineman to win or be successful. Smith, and Hurt are developing should be better this year, I am sure they will sign at least 2 lineman in Free agency a Center for sure and maybe a G or T. the line is not that bad like they was in Jason Campbell’s last year here.
No Andrew Luck is in the draft along with RG3, but other than those 2 guys the rest are not up to snuff, and are super project type QB’s i would take BJ Coleman in the 6th before i would waste a 2nd on Weeden, Foles, or Tannehill. and the point is why go get 2 guys to fill one position?? if you are going to do that you can just put those picks together to get a better prospect
what do you mean the additional picks?
do you really believe that it would only take either our 1st and 2nd this year to move up? Or our 1st, 2nd and 1st next year?
And the line is essentially just as bad as a couple years ago. Alright we might not be 32nd in the league, but should we really celebrate being 28th? Guys like Hurt and Smith are unknown. They were awful last year and can’t be relied upon.
As for QB’s I don’t get how you view Tannehill and Weeden so bad, when they are ranked so high and have so much talent. The difference between Tannehill and Griffin isn’t as big as you think.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Feb 24, 2012 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
How so? Over the last 6 games we allowed only 10 sacks while gaining having a back go over 100 yards in each contest. I’ll take that all day long. Extrapolated over the season that is 26 sacks allowed, which is good for 6th best in the league. So we were no where near the worst. Statistically our run defense was much worse.
But just to clarify – what makes you say we had one of the worst?
by DCSportsFan28 on Feb 24, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
So if we had Colt McCoy on the roster you would be fine with passing on RG3?
Also are you predicting that RG3 goes on to have a better or equal career to Eli Manning?
by Jeff Bernard on Feb 23, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
i just dont see the browns trading away their picks
they traded their first rounder last year plus had a really bad year this year. they cant afford to gamble on RG3 like we can. last year if we woulda went after a better qb . we woulda won the nfc east this year and the giants woldnt have even been in the playoffs.
what QB last year would have gotten us to the playoffs?
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
haha
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
reading is fundamental
so it would be wiser to not trade up from the 4th overall pick and just take BPA whether it is RG3, Blackmon or Trent Richardson
And if i McCoy was on my team and i had the 4th pick in the draft with the 22nd pick also NO i would not trade up, the guy only had 21 starts
If RG3 was there they may take him cause they like BPA approach but if not then i think they would be fine with Blackmon, or Trent Richardson
so i never said anything about the Browns should pass on RG3 cause they have McCoy but to trade up for him is not wise on their part cause they do have McCoy and will still get a impact MAJOR need player at 4.
I am not predicting Griffin III have a equal or better career than anybody, but he is one of the best QB prospect in last 10 years and the Giants did trade up to land the rights to Eli Manning and it aint hurt their future.
reading is fundamental
I asked you if you would trade up with for RG3 if Colt was on the roster. Not what “would be wiser” or if you you “had the 4th pick in the draft with the 22nd pick” or “if RG3 was there”. I asked if Colt McCoy was on the REDSKINS would YOU trade up? So you should learn to read and answer the question or not answer. It will save you the time of your pointless diatribe. By the way RG3 is not “one of the best QB prospect in the last 10 years”. You people are getting a little carried away with how much of a prospect he is.
by Jeff Bernard on Feb 23, 2012 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
"that's just dumb"...
1. He is that good.
2. He is probably better than a quarter of the starting QBs in the league, that doesn’t mean that all 8/9 teams are going to go after him, just because he is better than they have. Each team’s needs and structure is different, along with their salary cap space and draft position.
3. You don’t really think before you type, do you?
1. According to you
2. According to you
3. According to you
by Jeff Bernard on Feb 23, 2012 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
Agree completely
I think all this talk about the Browns moving up is overblown. I think they value their draft picks more and would rather keep their picks than try and package them and move up for just one player. Of course the Rams want to make it seem like the Browns are looking to move up so there will be a bidding war but I honestly dont see any other team as much as the redskins looking to trade up to get Griffin.
I think our first this year and next and a second either this year or next would get it done. Maybe we give them next years second and throw in one of our 4ths this year along with the 2 firsts. Anymore than that and I think it would be too much.
I’m high on Griffin and think him and Luck are the only Franchise QBs in this draft. I dont like Tannehill and I’m not big on Foles. I think Weeden is already close to maxed out on his potential. I think Griffin has more potential than any player in this draft, and if he maximizes it, can be better than Luck. I think Griffin is also a tireless worker and has the head and work ethic to become not only successful but elite in this league.
i did a post and a poll on the Browns blog DBN and their is some that would make the deal but most
would reject a trade that included both 1st, and 2nd rd pick.
http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2012/2/5/2772829/are-you-all-in
just as I hope most Redskins fans would reject a similar trade for the Skins
similar value for the Skins would be 1st, 2nd and 3rd this year, and 1st, 2nd and 4th next year.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
you know full well it is not going to cost that much to trade up.
the only place i see those ridiculous trade up scenario’s is here on HH.
that is what it would take to beat Cleveland's offer of two firsts this year and their 2nd
so if you are proposing that offer, I’m telling you the Redskins way to match it.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Some on HH thought we could get the Rams' pick for
2012 1 and 3, 2013 1. Others thought we might be able to avoid giving the 2013 first. The Fisher/Shanahan friendship won’t affect the substance of the trade, except that Jeff might be more inclined to be fair, rather than bleed us for everything he can. I would think, too, that it would help in terms of warning us of what is going on – like giving us a chance to outbid another team.
In another post I was musing about just how cutthroat the NFL is – like would TB let somebody come in and take their #5 spot, and take RG3, without telling us? Or would Cleveland, or any team, basically tell us that they were not going to take RG3 or trade their pick, and then do it? It’s still a question, but I get the impression that the GMs are honorable, that there is a “fraternity” of GMs and bosses, who almost always play fair, don’t do dirty tricks. I remember the flap with the Bears last year as a guide to acceptable behavior.
I do agree that there is a level of decorum among G.M.'s which is why you probably won't see Shanny having much of an advantage at all
If Fisher wants to maintain his relationship with the other 31 front offices, he’s not going to play favorites and give Shanny an extra chance to outbid other teams.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
I believe so too
There is a level of respect between the GM’s around the league. Thats not saying they wouldnt give out some false information in the sense of trying to get us to pay more. But look back a few years when I think it was the Ravens and the Bears? I might be wrong, but they thought they had a trade approved but one of the teams didnt put it in to the league in time and it left the other team on the clock and they eventually ran out of time for their pick and got jumped by the team or two behind them because they didnt get their pick in in time.
it was last year, and you can bet because of it the Ravens won't be taking the Bears calls this year
Fisher isn’t going to want to piss off any teams, and why would he. He’s been in the league for almost 20 years developing tremendous relationships, why jeopardize that?
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Feb 23, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
It's called a B-U-S-I-N-E-S-S
Friendship has nothing to do with whether or not St. Louis gives up the #2 pick in a deal with us. Fisher is just part of the heirachy on that team and a new part at that. Where does he get the balls to trade away their pick? Ain’t gonna happen unless the deal is agreeable to the whole management staff…..owner and GM.
Good thing friendships and personal gains don't ever affect corporate buisness's
I think what he’s trying to say is that we’ll get the last phone call. Fisher gets a call from the browns saying they’ll give use X shanny gets the number and is allowed to give them X +1 or even just X to match it and then friendship comes into play.
why would Fisher do that though?
what benefit is there for him to play favorites
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
they would make that call to anybody
If someone made a better offer it is your job to see if the other team can better the offer that you recieved. But i am sure Shanahan and allen have their limit to what they will offer, their friendship come into play cause i dont think Fisher would just tell him a bold faced lie about a offer they got from another team just to get more picks
exactly you make that call to anyone
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
What we really need
is another fan post about trading for RG III so we can fully analyze the possibilities!
I think this friendship factor is well overblown
Snyder and Shanahan were friends for years, that didn’t stop Shanahan from continuously beating us in trades.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
The NFL is a business, first and foremost
And the business is to make money but more importantly, to win. Friendships don’t mean shit if that’s your objective.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
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