Where's your cut off

by skinsfan28 on Feb 10, 2012 1:16 PM EST

Everyday we have the same posts for and against trading up for RGIII. Some are well written and argued, some are... well some are for lack of a better word LJP'esk.

This post is short and simple and I would prefer that that we keep that comments section bare (aka take your For or Against arguments to another thread)

Here is the scenario:
FA begins and the Redskins make a play for Manning but lose out to the Dolphins.
The redskins add two young and hungry and competitive Offensive linemen (No big name starters here just 26 Y/O back ups who have performed decently when needed)
The Combine is finished with RGIII showing that he is still fast as shit and an accurate passer, his interviews go well and we are approaching the draft.

What I want to know is where you draw your line, How much are you willing to give up at most to ensure RGIII becomes a redskin. We've all heard the arguments now lets see where the majority falls.

Just for a reference for those who want it the highly debated points chart is after the jump

Draft Pick Value Chart
Round 1		Round 2		Round 3		Round 4		Round 5		Round 6		Round 7		Other
1	3000	33	580	65	265	97	112	129	43	161	28	193	15.2	225	2.9
2	2600	34	560	66	260	98	108	130	42	162	27.6	194	14.8	226	2.8
3	2200	35	550	67	255	99	104	131	41	163	27.2	195	14.4	227	2.7
4	1800	36	540	68	250	100	100	132	40	164	26.8	196	14	228	2.6
5	1700	37	530	69	245	101	96	133	39.5	165	26.4	197	13.6	229	2.5
6	1600	38	520	70	240	102	92	134	39	166	26	198	13.2	230	2.4
7	1500	39	510	71	235	103	88	135	38.5	167	25.6	199	12.8	231	2.3
8	1400	40	500	72	230	104	86	136	38	168	25.2	200	12.4	232	2.2
9	1350	41	490	73	225	105	84	137	37.5	169	24.8	201	12	233	2.1
10	1300	42	480	74	220	106	82	138	37	170	24.4	202	11.6	234	2
11	1250	43	470	75	215	107	80	139	36.5	171	24	203	11.2	235	1.9
12	1200	44	460	76	210	108	78	140	36	172	23.6	204	10.8	236	1.8
13	1150	45	450	77	205	109	76	141	35.5	173	23.2	205	10.4	237	1.7
14	1100	46	440	78	200	110	74	142	35	174	22.8	206	10	238	1.6
15	1050	47	430	79	195	111	72	143	34.5	175	22.4	207	9.6	239	1.5
16	1000	48	420	80	190	112	70	144	34	176	22	208	9.2	240	1.4
17	950	49	410	81	185	113	68	145	33.5	177	21.6	209	8.8	241	1.3
18	900	50	400	82	180	114	66	146	33	178	21.2	210	8.4	242	1.2
19	875	51	390	83	175	115	64	147	32.6	179	20.8	211	8	243	1.1
20	850	52	380	84	170	116	62	148	32.2	180	20.4	212	7.6	244	1
21	800	53	370	85	165	117	60	149	31.8	181	20	213	7.2	245	0.95
22	780	54	360	86	160	118	58	150	31.4	182	19.6	214	6.8	246	0.9
23	760	55	350	87	155	119	56	151	31	183	19.2	215	6.4	247	0.85
24	740	56	340	88	150	120	54	152	31.8	184	18.8	216	6	248	0.8
25	720	57	330	89	145	121	52	153	31.2	185	18.4	217	5.6	249	0.75
26	700	58	320	90	140	122	50	154	30.8	186	18	218	5.2	250	0.7
27	680	59	310	91	136	123	49	155	30.4	187	17.6	219	4.8	251	0.65
28	660	60	300	92	132	124	48	156	30	188	17.2	220	4.4	252	0.6
29	640	61	292	93	128	125	47	157	29.6	189	16.8	221	4	253	0.55
30	620	62	284	94	124	126	46	158	29.2	190	16.4	222	3.6	254	0.5
31	600	63	276	95	120	127	45	159	28.8	191	16	223	3.3	255	0.45
32	590	64	270	96	116	128	44	160	28.4	192	15.6	224	3	256	0.4

Poll

Name your price, Whats the Most you would pay to get RGIII. This isn't about what the Rams would take, it's about what he's worth to you.

Nothing, if he drops to us at 6 i'd try to shop the pick and fill some holes

6 votes

Nothing but if he drops to us, I'll happily take him

33 votes

1st and 2nd, I'll take him on the cheap

9 votes

1st 2nd and 3rd, Final offer... wait the browns offered you how much!?

13 votes

1st and 3rd this year and next years 1st, seriously though, Final OFFER.

40 votes

1st & 2nd this year 1st next year... the browns have 2 1st rounds picks this year? fine, I'll throw in a conditional 2nd in 2014 if we make the play offs

48 votes

3 1st, BTW i haven't even seen Holmgren pick up the phone yet so I think you're playing me

4 votes

153 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

I'm wearing my cutoffs at the office today

Casual Friday.

I think RG3 is getting too much hype this early. I’ll be placing a combine prop bet that he doesn’t perform up to expectations (40 time excluded).

by SSBlitz on Feb 10, 2012 1:39 PM EST reply actions

I gotta admit i'm a bit surprised we don't have a single person at the 3 1's yet

I was also expecting more, i’ll take him if he drops but there are alot more votes to come i’m sure.

by skinsfan28 on Feb 10, 2012 2:25 PM EST reply actions

oh here comes the drops to us i'll take him crowd

by skinsfan28 on Feb 10, 2012 3:08 PM EST up reply actions

We just better grab him while we can.

It would be a huge mistake if we let RG3 slip thru i fingers , ive seen this kid play alot this past season and we would be a fool to pass him up . He would singled handly win us at least 5 or more game alone without fixing the offense up . Just think what RG3 would do if we fixed up the offense a lil more ? guys im telling you if we get him we will win at least 10 this next season alone . Just pull the plug and get him while we are this far up in picks because this thype of pick only comes once in a blue moon .

by washingtonwin on Feb 10, 2012 2:43 PM EST reply actions

You seem to be even Higher on RGIII than I am, and i'm pretty damn high on him.

But I gotta ask, if anyone could single handedly win us 5 more games, wouldn’t he be worth the 3 1sts in your opinion?

by skinsfan28 on Feb 10, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions

Personally i think

RG3 is way better than Luck is , see luck has a very good offensive line compared to what RG3 had and RG3 passed for more yards than luck did . See luck is noit a scrambler but RG3 is and RG3 looks to throw first before scrambling which is a plus as well , he is also a very accurate passer and can throw vertical as well as get the ball down the field .

by washingtonwin on Feb 10, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions

Luck is VERY mobile.

It’s undersold, but Drew Bledsoe he is not. Kid trucked a LB this year while running 30 yards downfield.

by tuckwell on Feb 10, 2012 4:20 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions

I guess so.

All im going to say is we are very close to having such a very good team and the main piece is the QB spot , and yes i know we do need a few extra spots on the offense as well .If we need to give up the 3 first then so be it , i will stake my life on it that he is that dam good . See if we go back and get yet another QB from the FA route then we are taking one step fowards and two steps back . We have to be stable at the QB position if we ever hope to get back to the super bowl . If we get a FA QB or a 2nd round QB we wont be in the super bowl period . If you research about a second round QB and see how many has been to the super bowl and won it all you wont find any .

by washingtonwin on Feb 10, 2012 3:18 PM EST reply actions

Plus you gotta think this.

Why would RG3 win the trophy over Luck ? its because he is better in other peoples minds as well and his stats were better 2.

by washingtonwin on Feb 10, 2012 3:31 PM EST reply actions

to play devils advocate

he could have just had a better year

Luck seems to be widely considered the most Pro ready qb, though I agree with you that RGIII has the higher ceiling.

by skinsfan28 on Feb 10, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions

Personaly i think both will be very good pros

I think RG3 will be rookie of the year when he finishes his first year in the pros like cam newton was and i will bet money on that . So just remember what i say and if im wrong i dont mind eating crow if thats the case . But i think he will be as good as cam was in carolina if not better .

by washingtonwin on Feb 10, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions

Why do I only see you when RGIII comes up? Too funny

Every time RGIII is mentioned here comes washingtonwin…too funny and I agree with you!

by Bryan Black on Feb 10, 2012 7:26 PM EST via Android app up reply actions

It would not surprise me .

If indy didnt switch to getting RG3 instead of getting luck , and it could very well happen

by washingtonwin on Feb 10, 2012 3:33 PM EST reply actions

It certainly could happen though there owner was talking about that last night

and although he said he wasn’t making the decision he thought they were both very close but that RGIII is better suited for a team like the Texans because of the amount of bootlegs they run and his ability to throw on the move. He then said that Luck would fit their system better. But again said that the decision would come from the GM, Coach and Scouts input, not his.

by skinsfan28 on Feb 10, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions

best case scenario he falls in our laps at 6

worse case someone else trades with the buccs at 5 and snatches him right from under our nose

by taylor21 on Feb 10, 2012 3:49 PM EST reply actions

That would be awful.

by skinsfan28 on Feb 10, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions

I would be very hurt

but its a real posibility the bucs are very young and dont have the glaring needs people assume they have in fact they are one of the hardest teams to mock because they actually have a lot of youth and depth

by taylor21 on Feb 10, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions

What if St. Louis doesn't want to trade, want Kalil...

then #3 is available with Minnesota, and, according to the chart (good grief!) we would only need to trade our #2 this year. Let’s sweeten the pot with a #3 next year….

by jgibbsfan1 on Feb 10, 2012 4:01 PM EST reply actions

We can dream haha but the chart doesn't take into account bidding wars

I also think the rams would take blackmon over kalil if they decide to stand pat. Bradford needs a weapon.

by skinsfan28 on Feb 10, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions

for some reason blackmons stock is dropping

a lot of new mocks have him in the 10-15 range predicting a 4.5 -4.7 40 time and lack of run blocking as the reason I cant wait untill the combine so we can get a real feel for thees rookies by the way does anyone know if luck or rg3 are participating ?

by taylor21 on Feb 10, 2012 4:11 PM EST up reply actions

I was being facescious...

or “Mocking the Mocks”

by jgibbsfan1 on Feb 10, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions

they will take Kalil over Blackmon

Fisher said that they have to protect Sam, so i see them taking Kalil if they stay at #2

by Highspeed30 on Feb 10, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions

To move to 3 is only 600 pts. Our second rounder is 520

So our 1 and 2 is almost enough for a trade with Minnesota. Maybe throw in a third rounder next year. That would only be if St Louis was not going to take RG3 or trade the pick. We might possibly know that before the draft.

by Donnio1234 on Feb 10, 2012 4:23 PM EST reply actions

It all depends on what the Browns and Miami do in FA

I personally dont see the Browns trading up to get RG3, but i do have Miami making a play for him if they dont get Manning or Flynn, but if the Rams pass on a trade then I think it would be a little cheaper to trade with Minny but not much 2012 1st,2nd 2013 2nd rd

by Highspeed30 on Feb 10, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions

If Flynn's the real deal

then Miami’s new coach (the Packer’s former OC) will know it and want him over Manning. That will play out next month before the draft and clarify a lot.

by DudleyDoright on Feb 11, 2012 8:29 AM EST up reply actions

Philbin dont have a choice in personnel matters

This is Philbin’s first coaching chance he dont have any power to demand Flynn over Manning. The owner want Peyton Manning bad and he is their first option and Flynn is there second option and RG3 would be their 3rd option

by Highspeed30 on Feb 11, 2012 9:40 AM EST up reply actions

Thanks for posting the draft value chart. So I can say that it's obsolete.

@Callahan_9 on the twitter machine.

by Diesel44 on Feb 10, 2012 8:43 PM EST reply actions

haha it's pretty obsurd

But when talking about trading draft picks may as well throw it up there.

by skinsfan28 on Feb 13, 2012 8:23 AM EST up reply actions

I don't know how many ways there are to look at this.

We’re trading up for RG3, that’s it. Now someone should do a post of importance, like something on Kory Lichtensteiger.

I see it as more cushion for the pushin'

by iH8dallas on Feb 10, 2012 10:31 PM EST via mobile reply actions

RGIII is not the second best player in the draft

My number one reason for not trading up is because RGIII is not the second best player. Matt Kalil is. If the second pick fell into my lap, I would take Kalil (and don’t say we don’t need him given Brown’s issues, the shortages of OTs in FA, and Trent’s weed dangers).

Note that moving from 6 to 2 requires 1000 draft points. What is that? It is MORE than the value of all the rest of our 2012 draft. Even if you just deal straight up (leave out a bidding war), you still will need to sacrifice the equivalent of picks 2-7 to move up from 6 to 2. And don’t kid yourself about if you use 2013 picks…you’re still spending the same value (and value drops a place). So you’re probably looking at our 2012 1st, 2nd and 2013 1st to move up 4 slots. (worse if there is a bidding war, but there may not be).

Now…you might justify that…since after all the 2nd pick is WORTH 1000 more points (per the chart…and chart is pretty good). The only thing is…you are actually picking the 4th best player! If everyone sits pat, he will drop to the Browns at 4th (and per their mock, they almost let him slide). This tells me…you really don’t need to worry about a bidding war with the Browns for 2nd. Or if there is one, both WASH and ST LOUIS need heads examined.

The cost (fair value trades assumed) for bidding up to the 2nd place, to take the 4th best player is 800 points! That is insane to just waste that amount of value. To overpay and burn that value.

Now, what DOES make sense is to wait until 4 comes around and THEN have a little discussion with the Browns. Guess what…we have more position need than they do for RGIII. Pay them fair value(slightl,ly over) by giving them our 3rd and 1st and make that happen. They will be happy with the 6th pick (can still get Blackmon or Rieff, both filling need) and don’t have the waste of two young QB prospects on the roster.

If not, and CLE picks RGII, or even ST LOUIS does, then when we get to 6, we entertain offers or just man up and go with Blackmon or Rieff (both can contribute asap).

What about QB? Well, we look deeper in the draft, we try for a FA, we suffer under Grossman (he might sneak into the playoffs). Not inconceiveablle if the team improved a little and he was in the Beck games that we slide into the playoffs.

But burning, just BURNING 800 points, to pick the 4th best player at 2nd is insane. Yeah, you might get lucky (or unlucky), but at the end of the day if you keep making bets that cost you 800 points like that…you will not help the organization.

by TCO on Feb 10, 2012 11:32 PM EST reply actions

CLE, not ST LOIUS

in third para. IOW, if there is a bidding war for the Rams pick (to spend it on RG3), the bidders are silly. Are overpaying right from the start

by TCO on Feb 10, 2012 11:36 PM EST up reply actions

who needs their head examined would be you...

due to the fact you appear to believe in “The Chart”. If you truly believe this is some concrete entity, you are gravely mistaken. This chart is NOT like money, teams are not exchanging cash value. This chart is the brainchild of some retarded computer geek, who had nothing else to do but think up some “chart” to represent value to draft picks, while sitting in his office cubicle.

The Chart is nothing more than a crutch for people who can’t think for themselves (“let’s check the chart, I don’t know if your trying to get over on something…” – laughable…). If our FO personnel can’t tell if a trade is worth it or not, somethings wrong.

Draft picks are assets. They do have value. But you can’t quantify the value of each. The draft is so much more than that. It has to do with positional value, team needs, and, believe it or not, team irrationality. So, IF a team wants to trade up/down, FOR WHATEVER REASON THEY HAVE, they do NOT have to check the chart. If they feel they are getting fair compensation, then the teams consumate the trade.

Lastly, I appears you are a BPA type of person. That is a philosophy of many, but not all. If this team did not need a OT, then picking Kalil would NOT be the choice, no matter if he is perceived to the be the second best pick available (which is unto itself disputable). So, even though I understand your position, it is only one of many different strategies available to FO executives. I do not share your philosophy…

by jgibbsfan1 on Feb 11, 2012 10:45 AM EST up reply actions

Actually

The Chart came out of the Dallass warroom back in the 90s, not some nameless computer geek. I hate Dallass, but Jimmy Johnson & Co had their shit together on draft day, and multiple Super Bowls showed it.

That being said, the chart is junk now with the new rookie wage rules. Every trade last year was “over value” of the chart, and that trend will continue. In a couple years there will be a new chart based off sample size, but right now the market is still being set.

by tuckwell on Feb 15, 2012 11:59 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions

ur poll made me laugh

but to the topic i picked the one 3rd to the bottom

Q-tip

by Sean Qtip Guilliams on Feb 10, 2012 11:40 PM EST reply actions

Anyone hear anything on the progression of Jonathan Crompton. Not as a starter but, could he be a capable back up so the restraining orders can be filed against Rex and Beck.

by future is now on Feb 11, 2012 12:31 AM EST up reply actions

+1000

by DudleyDoright on Feb 11, 2012 8:32 AM EST up reply actions

I would take him if he fell to us at #6.

I don’t expect that to happen though. If it doesn’t, I would try to trade back, and grab Weeden at some point. And bring in a FA quarterback to compete for the starting job in camp.

by willster on Feb 11, 2012 4:30 PM EST reply actions