Arm Strength Matters
by Tiller56 on Jan 30, 2012 2:00 PM EST
in Redskins Analysis
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A quarterback's arm strength matters in the NFL. Just ask the Eagles, who for 12 years have had two quarterbacks with the strongest arms in the league. Both possess Howitzer's for arms. Think this matters?
Philadelphia Eagles 2000-2011:
W/L Record - 116-70
McNabb(2000-09) - YPA average - 7.1 YPC average - 11.2
Vick(2010-11) - YPA average - 7.9 YPC average 13.1
During this span of 12 years, the Eagles offense has averaged 9th in the league in points scored(8 times landing in the top 10), and 10th in the league in total offense(3 times landing in the top 5).
Coincidence?
Lets compare the Eagles success with another team, who throughout the same time period, had a quarterback with one of the best arms in football; The Indianapolis Colts, and Peyton Manning.
Indianapolis Colts 1998-2010:
W/L Record - 141-67
Manning(1998-2010) - YPA average - 7.6 YPC average - 11.7
During this 13 year span, the Colts offensive, with Manning under center, averaged 6th in both points scored and total yards on a yearly basis, finishing in the top ten in the league in both catagories 10 out of the 13 years.
Need more proof?
At the top of the strong-armed quarterback food chain are guys like Vick, Rodgers, Manning, Flacco, Stafford, Brady, Big Ben, Brees, E Manning, Freeman, Cutler, and Schaub. Manning was hurt all season, Cutler and Schaub were hurt for a good portion of it, but amongst the others, only Freeman and Vick(who was also banged up), failed to make the playoffs.
Still think a weak arm quarterback can get the job done? Let's take a look at how some of the lesser endowed quarterbacks fared.
The Chad Pennington led Jets(2002-04, 2006-07), are a good example of team with a weak-armed quarterback.
New York Jets 2002-04, 2006-07:
W/L Record - 32-29
Pennington - YPA average - 6.7 YPC average - 10.8
During this 5 year span, the Jets offense, with Pennington under center, averaged 20th in the league in points scored, and 20th in total offense. They never once cracked the top ten in either catagory.
Matt Hasselbeck is another NFL quarterback with a very average arm.
Seattle Seahawks (2001-10):
W/L Record - 78-69
Hasselbeck - YPA average - 6.9 YPC average - 11.5
During this 10 year span, the Seahawks offense averaged 15th in the league in both points scored, and total offense. Again, on par with his arm strength, which is about average.
Need more proof? Look no further than Rex Grossman, Colt McCoy, Curtis Painter, Kevin Kolb(when he is healthy), Christian Ponder, and Mark Sanchez. Andy Dalton and Tim Tebow seem to be the exceptions this past season.
My Beliefs:
I am a strong believer that your quarterback needs to have a strong arm to be successful in the NFL. Those who do not have this attribute can survive, but they are going to need the help of a strong running game, game changing wide receivers, and an excellent defense. I believe, however, that they will never become elite.
The past can certainly prove my theory wrong with quarterbacks such as Joe Montana, Troy Aikman, and Phil Sims, but the future of the NFL is going to rely on a guy who can drive the football into tight windows, and hit a wide receiver in stide 60 yards downfield. With todays athletes on defense, the definition of being open has grown slimmer. Without the quarterback who can take advantage of that very small window, your team has less of a chance at success.
Some people will argue arm strength isn't everything, but a quarterback who has a strong arm, will usually be able to complete more "NFL type" throws.
Below is my list of NFL starting QB, who I believe have the strongest arm, starting with the strongest at the top, and moving down to the weakest:
Vick - 10
Stafford - 10
Flacco - 10
Manning - 10
Brady - 9
Cutler - 9
Freeman - 9
Roethlisberger - 9
Brees - 9
Rodgers - 9
Newton - 9
E. Manning - 8
Palmer - 8
Schaub - 8
Rivers - 8
Jackson - 8
Ryan - 7
Cassel - 7
Henne - 7
Romo - 7
Fitzpatrick - 7
Bradford - 7
Gabbert - 6
Smith - 6
Sanchez - 5
Kolb - 5
Hasselbeck - 5
Tebow - 5
Dalton - 5
Ponder - 5
Grossman - 4
McCoy - 4
Anyone see a trend?
There are 6-7 signal callers the Redskins can opt for this offseason(this includes both free agents, and college quarterbacks). Here is my rating based on arm strength for each prospect from 10-1, with 10 being the highest.
Matt Flynn - 6
Drew Stanton - 7
Kyle Orton - 6
RG3 - 9
Nick Foles - 8
Brandon Weeden - 7
Ryan Tannehill - 5
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Comments
Just to put my rating scale in perspective
I consider anything below 7 unacceptable for our franchise signal caller. I’m ok with a guy like Orton if he was a temporary stop gap type guy.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
Are you saying a strong arm = wins
Cuz that makes me think of Jeff George, and that makes me throw up in my own mouth.
I realize what he is saying
But I think he went about saying it in a really bad way.
This has to be
The worst “statistical” data and biased presentation of an opinion since LJP and The Lethal Weapon Joshua Cribbs
by DoWork on Jan 30, 2012 2:16 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I think you based these rankings
by watching post-game handshakes
by CarverM on Jan 30, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
it does seem like a spurious connection between arm strength and wins
so much more goes into a victory than just the QB, let alone just the QB’s arm strength
As for me, all I know is that I know nothing.
*Socrates*
Now, if only a wide receivers junk led to Jerry Rice type of numbers
Our search for a number one wide receiver would be unnecessary
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 30, 2012 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
I am also trying to reconcile Shanahan the head coach
With Shanahan the general manager… which one is the idiot that couldn’t figure this out and named Rex Grossman the starter for one and a half seasons?
Sure there is a level of minimum arm strength, but to suggest it is the end-all be-all is just a little over the top (take that back, a lot of over-the-top)
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 30, 2012 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
yes and no
I see were your going, but there is a little more to it than that-
Ryan Lindley – 9- can’t hit the broad side of a barn
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
I perfer to look at it this way
The weaker the arm, the more it limits your offense.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
Sorry, not good enough
Based on the logic used here, we should also avoid QBs that are left-handed or african american.
It’s just a flawed argument.
(1) How is the rating a “strong armed” made?
(2) How does that rating apply to QBs of some range or time-frame? (not just a select few extremes)
(3) How does offensive system affect the need for a strong arm (WCO vs. Coryell-lineage).
A lot missing is all I point out.
I'll answer #1 for you.
Tiller has life sized posters of all of these QB’s wearing either sleeveless shirts or no shirts at all. He lined them up in his bedroom in order of who he thinks has the most talent then studied each of their bicepts to see which looked the strongest and used a permentant marker to add definition to those who lacked it.
I don't think arm size relates to arm strength
I actually think it can hurt it. Look at Brady Quinn. When I was in my power lifting phase after college, by ability to throw a football got worse. It was all about the arm tendons. After I stopped lifting for so much strength, by velocity and depth got a lot better.
I don’t really know if this makes sense. Maybe it was just me.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
I was just messing with you
my guess is it has alot to do with torque throughout your whole body like golf. you’re actual strength does matter but not as much as perfect mechanics.
Agree
It’s a lot of core, and torque, almost like throwing the jav. But raw shoulder strength come into play a lot. I love watching QB warm up pre-game, when they stand flat footed facing one another, and just fire the ball with the arm and torso. You see true arm strength then.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
id take a QB
Who was elite in terms of accuracy but had an average arm, over a QB with an elite arm who was only average in terms of his accuracy.
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
Any day of the week
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
Matt is stil above a 7 or above on my scale
so he’s got a good arm……..maybe not elite, but good enough to make all the throws and get the ball 60 yards downfield.
The guys I wouldn’t want are the 4’s and 5’s
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
I agree with you
and see were your headed. Arm strength is important.
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
Arm strength is why Ryan cant crack elite qb status imo.
One way to look at it:
Matt Ryan never makes plays that Cutler can’t make, whereas Cutler will routinely make throws that Ryan cannot. I think that’s a huge factor for Shanny to consider when he is evaluating our qb situation.
So why can't
Cutler be an elite QB, because he sure as sh*t isn’t
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
he can be and plays like one at times.
Bears Nation was pretty happy with him this year, given what he was able to do behind a terrible, terrible line
Rarely
and never when it matters. Elite QBs should have no problem playing behind terrible lines.
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
probably about the same
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
I'll say this
If we’d have gotten Cutler a few years ago, we would have been a playoff team by now.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
I agree with that
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
but I might also
include 1 or 2 more should haves.
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
bradey had alot of trouble when the giants beat them in the last superbowl
and we could see the same thing happen again this sunday. in fact id the pats line doesnt hold up they lose by alot
Yeah qb mechanics have to be good coming into the drat as well
no more Jason Campbell wind ups
A fan of losers, Redskins, Wizards, Orioles, Terps, Dale Jr, America
True
Campbell could air it out 65 yards, but his wind-up took longer than the ball did to arrive downfield.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
I think this displays it fairly well. I chose Kyle Orton because well comparing JC to TB or PM would not be fair.
A fan of losers, Redskins, Wizards, Orioles, Terps, Dale Jr, America
just noticed that picture of JC is also before he even turned the ball around
A fan of losers, Redskins, Wizards, Orioles, Terps, Dale Jr, America
Arm strength is needed in the NFL, no doubt.
But to suggest that elite arm strength gets you wins is a stretch. You’ve put Schaub, Rivers and Romo between the middle and lower side of the arm strength scale, yet those are 3 of the best QB’s in the league.
Arm strength is just part of the equation for QB’s. If it was the main aspect, JaMarcus Russell would have been successful, and Ryan Mallet would have been a first rounder last year.
It was Mallett's perceived crackheadness that knocked him out of the first.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
me too
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
That's exactly my point though.
Arm strength isn’t everything, its part of the equation, for sure. If teams valued Arm Strength over everything else, Mallet would have been a first rounder.
Some did view him as a first rounder
others didn’t. Teams who may have viewed him as a 1st rounder, may not have been in need of a QB then.
The kid has every intangible besides pure foot speed.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
Not if you didn't have an immediate need at QB
don’t forget, unlike 10 years ago, 2nd’s are treated like 1st in the draft
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
If they viewed him as a 1st rounder
they would have taken him in the second and looked to trade him in the future for a 1st. Kaepernick wouldn’t have been chosen over him if teams viewed him as a 1st rounder.
But I didn’t want to get into a Ryan Mallet argument, my point was that arm strength isn’t everything. I agree QB’s need to have enough arm strength to make all the throws. But they don’t need an elite arm to be an elite QB. Arm strength for me, is one of the most over-valued aspects. I’ll take a guy who has enough arm strength, with elite accuracy over enough accuracy and elite arm strength every time.
I'll bet
Mallett turns out to be the better QB than Kaepernick .
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
Your right.........arm strength isn't everything
but in this offense we run, with the play action deep passes(just like you see in Houston), you need a QB that can make those types of throws. We all saw this year how Rex hurt us in that department. How many times did you see a WR get behind the defense, only to have Grossman not be able to reach him, of cuase him to have to slow up and wait for the ball.
There is nothing that annoys me more, than having to watch that.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
Half of his picks should have been TDs and/or long completions.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
Yes, they need to have enough arm
to hit the deep throws. But using Houston as an example, you can adjust your offense to win without a QB having a big arm. T.J. Yates would probably get a 5/6 on your scale, yet he lead them into the divisional round of the playoffs.
And, as you say in the post, Schaub doesn’t have an elite arm, yet he runs this offense very effectively.
But Schaub has a very good arm
and if he’d been healthy, the AFC playoffs could have looked different.
Unfortunately for us, Rex wasn’t even close to Schaub in terms of arm strength, and look where that got us. Point is, why limit your offense, when you don’t have to.
People have been arguing against trading up for a guy like Griffin, and instead taking a guy like Tannehill, but that’s severly limiting what your able to do on offense. Cousins would limit us, Flynn would limit us, Orton would limit us, Moore would limit us. I don’t care how cerebral a QB is, if he limits the strengths of our offensive play calling, I don’t want him.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
I'm not saying I want a QB with poor arm strength
because as you say that would limit the offense. But your post suggests that a QB with an elite arm has a better chance to be elite. I’m saying I want a QB with enough arm strength, but that doesn’t mean he has to be able to throw the ball 70, 80, 90 yards in the air. If the guy can throw a 40 yard out to the opposite sideline, he has enough arm strength.
Also, I think you’re underrating Tannehill’s arm. He has enough arm to make the throws we’d need him to make.
Arm Strenth
just another point that reinforces my belief that skins should do whatever it takes to land RG3. Well done
If he can throw a 40 yd out route
He can throw 60 in the air. Any QB can throw 60 yards, hell for that matter I can, but throwing that deep out is a whole different story because your center of gravity is thrown off. So if he can throw a 40 yard out on a rope then by definition he has an elite arm
by Bryan Black on Jan 30, 2012 5:17 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Go watch the college skills competition
not every QB can throw 60 yards – and mind you, this is without pads
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
Talking about seasoned NFL QB's once they been involved with the strength and conditioning programs
College QB’s can greatly improve their strength once they have the right coaching on an NFL program. You will see guys like Tannehill have some improvements in arm strength starting in their 2nd and 3rd years
by Bryan Black on Jan 30, 2012 5:35 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I'm not saying they will go from Rex to Vick but it does improve
Maybe I should have made that a bit clearer on how much improvement is or can be made
by Bryan Black on Jan 30, 2012 8:56 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I've seen it with a few guys Bryan
but the majority stay the same, or get worse(because of injury). Brady is the one player I saw a dramatic jump with.
Sometimes technique and hand placement can aid in one’s arm strength, but it is usually very minimal.
I remember in 94 when PSU changed Collins’ throwing motion. They had him keep the ball high, next to his ear, and and he would actually bring the ball even higer before he releassed the ball. The result was not as many errant passes(his ball used to sail high). The nose of the ball was always going down, and his intermediate passes had more zip, but it affected his long ball, as he didn’t seem to be able to get as much on it.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
Not true
I think they are all 7 or higher. It’s just where they fell in order, and in all truthfullness, I’d group them all around the same. put it this way, a lot of the names between 8-15 are interchangable.
Actually, I’m going to go back and edit with a 10-1 scale.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
well said
I think guys like Montana, Theismann, and Stabler might also illustrate that you can be a good QB, with out having an elite arm. I’m also not sure Barkley would get much higher than 6 on this, and I take him for my QB
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
I viewed Barkley like this before the 2011 season began
but I though his improved his velocity, and especially his deep ball from his soph to junior seasons. I’d put him at a 7 now.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
nice post
I was trying to explain basically the same thing to my cousin the other day but he kept on bringing tthe exceptions into play. But I agree the stronger the arm the better the offense is able to be opened up
by no more kwame's in dc on Jan 30, 2012 2:47 PM EST via mobile reply actions
thanks man
and yes, there are tones of exceptions each way: Kyle Boller, Russell, A Smith……..then Dalton, Montana, Theismann
The examples I used in the body of the post were just a very small sample. There are many more like the ones I cited, yet very few exceptions(at least in the past decade or so).
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
theres always going to be exception to everything
History shows that stronger qbs have been more successful then weaker qbs and they have the Superbowl rings to prove this.
My point is, While weaker qbs have made the occasional Superbowl here and there, the super bowl has been and probably always will be run by the stronger qbs. Its not just NY opinion its the history behind it. A strong qb can open the field more then people think
by no more kwame's in dc on Jan 30, 2012 3:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I want no part of a Matt Ryan or Matt Hassebeck type qb as our long-term guy
Which is tough to say considering they are so much better than what we have….but if we’re getting a rookie qb, we should shoot for the moon imo, not draft a player whose arm puts a definitive limit on how good he can be.
by DCrez on Jan 30, 2012 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
There is definitely something to this notion.
I look at Anthony Armstrong for example. When McNabb was airing it out AA was having a really good year, because he had a simple route. McNabb lets it rip and Anthony ran under it.
That’s the kind of throw Rex couldn’t make and we were lacking those type of big plays we saw in 2010.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
Great point
We all saw how Rex limited our offense last year, and i hope we never have to see this again from our QB’s.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
hehe
Which probably means he is the guy shanny is targetting
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
Very nice article!
I will second all of the Ryan Mallett notions about one day being a solid NFL QB. I have to say that I enjoy a QB that can throw darts to dang near any spot on the field. With that being said, the only way we should trade up is if it’s a guarantee to get RG3. I’d love to see Leonard Hankerson get a legit shot at the #1 with a strong armed QB throwing lasers his way.
"If there's football in heaven I will be thinking of Sean Taylor every time it thunders."
by Ohio Redskins on Jan 30, 2012 3:18 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
What about Rusell Wilson?
In all seriousness, he’s a 2nd baseman in baseball so not necessarily known for a cannon on the diamond…. but where do you think his arm ranks?
I know his size is the major concern but he could be worth a late round look.
"If there's football in heaven I will be thinking of Sean Taylor every time it thunders."
by Ohio Redskins on Jan 30, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
I can't disagree with that...
Still a 6 as compared to Rex’s 4 haha!
"If there's football in heaven I will be thinking of Sean Taylor every time it thunders."
by Ohio Redskins on Jan 30, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
No offense
Your predictions don’t seem to help the cause…
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
please let him keep predicting
I think he has about a .02% accuracy on his predictions
A fan of losers, Redskins, Wizards, Orioles, Terps, Dale Jr, America
ya but jbh
I think your a griffin guy, it helps me, but not you
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
no i'm not a griffin guy
I’m a griffin guy if he comes for free at #6 not if we have to buy #2.
A fan of losers, Redskins, Wizards, Orioles, Terps, Dale Jr, America
You two are 1 and 1A in my 2012 Hater Mock Draft.
Elite hating ability.
All the intangibles like jealousy, envy, etc..
You two are really moving up the board.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
Ive heard you and tiller
secretly want a Tannehill/ Grossman combination. It gets us up 9 on arm strength
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
I think you're right on this one...
Not that I agree with it cus I’m scared of what we’re gonna give up for him.
HTTR!
This isn't one of my dumbass 31-17 predictions.
This I’m certain of.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
you've been 1000% sure for a million things that haven't happened
A fan of losers, Redskins, Wizards, Orioles, Terps, Dale Jr, America
What about Russell Wilson?
In all seriousness, he’s a 2nd baseman in baseball so not necessarily known for a cannon on the diamond…. but where do you think his arm ranks
"If there's football in heaven I will be thinking of Sean Taylor every time it thunders."
Sorry for the multiple post.
"If there's football in heaven I will be thinking of Sean Taylor every time it thunders."
by Ohio Redskins on Jan 30, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
Funny, the whole article is a
smoke screen to say how you don’t like Matt Flynn. Ok we get it, you hate Flynn and want to trade up for Robert Griffin the third.
1. Where did you get the number system on the QB’s, a radar gun? This is surely subjective.
2. I demand a recount.
3. I still think a guy (Matt Flynn) who comes into an NFL game and throws more yds than Rogers has is worth a look.
4. I think most NFL scouts will take average arm strength with good accuracy.
5. Tim Tebow would beat Tom Brady in arm wrestling, but Tom throws a better ball, why is that?
Rodskins
by Rodskins on Jan 30, 2012 3:30 PM EST via Android app reply actions
Tim Tebow would beat Tom Brady in arm wrestling, but Tom throws a better ball, why is that?
Elbow tendons.
Funny, the whole article is a smoke screen to say how you don’t like Matt Flynn
Glad you can read peoples minds. Actually, it’s about any QB that can limit this offense like Grossman did to us last year.
Where did you get the number system on the QB’s, a radar gun? This is surely subjective.
Sure it’s subjective, but I think you’ll see most would agree with the order and rankings. I guess they come from watching a lot of football.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
We need to find a QB with these then
Elbow tendons.
A fan of losers, Redskins, Wizards, Orioles, Terps, Dale Jr, America
'Elbow tendons' needs to be a meme around here...
If he could just get Shanny to reference that ONCE…
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Feb 1, 2012 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
I think Vicks arm strength went up after he got out of jail
maybe he was working it a lot more?
A fan of losers, Redskins, Wizards, Orioles, Terps, Dale Jr, America
Yes, but it was more that his elbow tendons got more flexibility…
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 30, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Wait, I thought we were talking about arms
Now you have gone and started discussing receivers again
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 30, 2012 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
My Opinion
I think Arm Strength is sometimes underrated and should be valued more because it cannot really be coached or significantly improved as easily.
In general, if everything else was the same, I would rather draft a prospect with elite arm strength and average accuracy, than a prospect with elite accuracy and average arm strength (personal preference).
Good coaching can improve mechanics, accuracy, and the ability to read defenses….But with certain intangibles (Strong Arm, Speed, Size, Leadership, Clutch Factor, etc…), a Quarterback either has it or he doesn’t.
With that being said, RG3 should be our top priority at this point. Nothing is certain about any prospect, but he appears to have more natural ability and just as many intangibles as any other probable option for us this Off-Season.
by WizSkinsNatCaps on Jan 30, 2012 3:42 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Sounds good to me
I’m ready for us to get our very own Star QB and not just some Mediocre NFL Starter.
by WizSkinsNatCaps on Jan 30, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
It would be nice
to have a QBs jersey that can be worn for years. My dumbass was inches from buying a McNabb jersey before the Lions game in ’10 so I could wear it to the game. WHEW, money saved! That was the last time McNabb was any sort of a QB for us.
"If there's football in heaven I will be thinking of Sean Taylor every time it thunders."
by Ohio Redskins on Jan 30, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
All of these virgins screaming about Griffin costing too much will be the first to sniff jock when he's tearing up the Eagles.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
ih8
How much do you think we are going to give up for him?
We trade first rounders with St. Louis, so that cancels out.
This years second and next year’s first.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
I was actually watching Keiper and McGay
talk about what the price would be to trade up and get Griffin. They seem to think it’s not going to be as much as we had assumed.
I heard from McShay – Swap of 1st’s this year, 2nd this year, and a 2nd or 3rd in 2013(not a 1st like many thought). They also said you can throw the trade chart out the window for good now.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
really
well that changes things dramatically in my book. If we could move up by giving up two 2s, then I would be on the Griffin bandwagon.
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
no one knows for sure though
that was just their expectations. The Rams and anyone who gets in a bidding war for his services will dictate the price.
Right now, I’m more scared of the Dolphins than anybody.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
Oh agreed
I could see it getting out hand quickly. But if we could move up for two 2’, instead of a 1 and two 2’s. Now that’s something I might be interested in …
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
I said this some time ago when folks were claiming it would take as many as 7 picks to move up
It’s amazing what you get when you apply economics to the equation
by Bryan Black on Jan 30, 2012 5:30 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I'm still prepared
to swap 1st’s, and give our 2nd this year, and 1st and 3rd next year.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
Yes, but is Shanahan?
He only has three more off seasons to build this team.
I think that comes into consideration, but I’m not sure how much… but we have to imagine that there is a price that is too high
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 30, 2012 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, of course
Just that it won’t be any more than that, and if it then trade back
by Bryan Black on Jan 30, 2012 8:58 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I hope the trade up folks have a limit
by Bryan Black on Jan 31, 2012 8:00 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
I think Bruce surely does
but does Danny? I think if the 3 stooges all sit down, and decide we want RG3, Danny(Moe) will override the others, and tell Bruce to do whatever it takes to get a deal done.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
I don't know man
Possibility of course. Something tells me Snyder is learning his lesson because this team has a brighter future whether we trade up or down. For the first time in a long time I can see the light at the end of the tunnel
by Bryan Black on Jan 31, 2012 8:21 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
I see it too
minus one big piece of course – QB. If we had that in place already, I’d be pretty excited.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
Tom Brady Strong Arm?
This data doesn’t seem very objective. How are you saying they have strong arms? I always thought Brady was said to have a lesser strong arm.
not on madden
A fan of losers, Redskins, Wizards, Orioles, Terps, Dale Jr, America
by jbh1190 on Jan 30, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
his arm got much better after a few years into the league
rare for that to happen, but it looks like Brady never saw the inside of the weightroom in college- he was seriously scrawny when drafted. “Terrible body” was once reported as part of the Pats draft notes about him.
i dont think it’s safe to assume a similar increase in arm strength from any of the players we’re considering
Brady has a cannon
can easily put the ball 65+ yards in the air, and hit the deep out, and dig on a rope.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
Where did Highspeed30 go?
He creates good arguments. Come back Highspeed, I’d like to debate.
A fan of losers, Redskins, Wizards, Orioles, Terps, Dale Jr, America
Interesting article. Of course arm strength isn’t everything but its one of those things that can’t really be improved much so its vital to consider especially as a eliminator.
Its a era of offense but if one defense has a inherent advantage of defending a smaller arm that will have a effect on outcomes.
Everyone already knows RGIII is by far the best option for the Redskins at this point (besides Luck who isn’t happening). You can talk up the other guys but they all have far more major red flags. The question is price but remember there will be a bill coming for settling for a less talented player at Qb too.
by HogtieJim on Jan 30, 2012 4:14 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Great point
We’re all tired of mediocrity so why not pay the price and take a chance on what could be franchise changing QB in RG3.
If he busts… Then I guess we are all used to dealing with those emotions.
"If there's football in heaven I will be thinking of Sean Taylor every time it thunders."
by Ohio Redskins on Jan 30, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
This makes sense to many
yet some are too afraid to pull the trigger, or they are fine with building other areas, and setteling on our QB
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
I think this is a lot like choosing a woman.
You start with does she have a nice body (because 90% of the time you see her before you begin to talk to her), but you don’t stop there. She has to have something going on in her head plus a number of other factors variable involved. Are strength is just the start, but you don’t stop there.
If she is absolutely amazing in every other area, but her body is just “okay” you can still proceed. But if she has Whoopi Goldbergs face and body (i.e. no arm strength), then no need to keep looking no matter what else she may have going for her.
Which is why I stand by my anti-Dalton stance from last year. He floats ducks down the field. I don’t care if he made the pro bowl, he will never be an elite QB. Dalton = Whoopi
Great post Tiller.
Redskins @RGIII - 2012
I guess
In Vinnie’s case he was drinkin heavily. …man his arm strength was a 2 at 10pm, but it was a 10 at 2 am
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
You also have to take into account
How well she fits your system
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 30, 2012 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Yes
And Shanahan’s system requires arm strength.
Redskins @RGIII - 2012
by Copious 1 on Jan 30, 2012 5:52 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Then why has he had Grossman on the roster for two years?
I think you can make a case both ways
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 30, 2012 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
Well, you clearly saw what he wanted when he went out and got McNabb
and Rex was the back-up, and was supposed to be no more. Last year, when the offseason was shortened, and we didn’t draft a QB, we really had no other choice.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
For anyone who is interested:
Here is Wes Bunting’s newest Mock Draft:
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/scouting_department.html
Redskins trade to #2 for RG3
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
Beck's arm
how is that? I think Shanny is unhappy with Rex, so John may get another shot next year.
Beck's arm is better than Rex's
thats for sure, but the kids head is not right. I think the beating he took in Miami turned hin into Joey Harrington part 2.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
Actually the proper term is Ransey,d
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 30, 2012 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
I worry a little about emphasizing the physical over the play
When they did the NFL QB contests on TV, Marino would suck at how far you throw the ball and all. But when they did the drill where they had to make decisions, he rocked it. and so much that he would win the contests. And he had a pretty good career.
Is arm strength for QB like being tall for a wide reciever? All we hear about is the manlust for a tall WR. But heck…what has Hank really shown so far (one good game, after barely making the cut). And Devin and Malcom were everybody’s obsession after draft…but busted. Sure, everything equal having an Art Monk/Charlie Tayloe build is nice. But there are plenty of extremely good WRs that are under 6 foot.
I get what your saying
Having the strongest arm doesn’t necessarily maximize point production but having a strong capable arm gives you maximum opportunity. On your scale philip rivers is lower than flacco but rivers routinely puts up more points. So i guess you should have at least a 7 for sustained success. I guess.
So i guess our only draft options are...
RG3, Ryan Lindley, Brock Osweiler, and Nick foles. According to your arm strength theory
I would actually limit that to
RG3, Foles or Weeden(can’t believe you left my boy out)
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
Obey, one time
was seen trying to catch a football in the parking lot of a gym, and when the guy threw the ball to him, Obey jumped out of the way like a little girl, because the football had too much heat on it…………………………………………..true story!
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
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