If it means substantial starter upgrades at 5+ positions, would you endure another year of Rex Grossman?
Please don't go crazy. I don't want Sexy Rexy under center any more than anyone else does. I also don't think we're player rich enough to throw around a bunch of draft picks to trade up or to take a shot on another guy we're not sure of.
If, between the upcoming draft and free agency, we land a legit shackles corner, a jump up and grab it receiver, a new tackle and a pair of guards (rich FA year for guards), and a solution at strong safety, could you take one more year of Rex, knowing that we'd THEN push our chips in to grab Matt Barkley or someone else who proves himself?
Never mind the "does Shanny need to win next year to keep his job" thought process. I'm not talking about what's likely, I'm talking about what makes sense. You're the owner of the team, and you're not trying to pull off one playoff run; you're trying to build a perennial contender.
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I think that could be something that has to happen if we miss out on some trades or ppl don't fall to us in the draft...
BUT! then it would be a FA qb, i just don’t think shanny goes another year with rexy
Yes.
But there are 2 things I must say.
First, it would be preferable to at least bring in an FA QB (Matt Flynn) for competition with Rex.
Second, if we are to substantially upgrade 5 positions I would rather it came almost entirely through the draft, not Free Agency. Maybe one position (probably Guard) could be upgraded in FA but the other 4 must come from the draft.
all in all I’ve been promoting this stance for months, but with Flynn in place of Rex.
If you bring Flynn in....
you are talking Kolb/Cassel kind of money. Are you willing to gamble that for competition for Rex….considering the results those 2 have gotten? They both could be very well competing for their starting jobs next season and have somewhat cash-strapped their respective teams. Flynn would be a commitment….not competition.
Can we please get a mother f***ing QB we can be proud of?!?!?!?!?!?!
I wouldn't endure another year of Rex if:
The 91 team was cloned and he was QB.
My life depended on it.
It meant I married Oprah with no pre-nup.
Jesus appeared to me in a bowl of soup and told me that Rex was good.
It meant stopping a nuclear holocaust.
Should I go on?
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
by iH8dallas on Jan 24, 2012 3:59 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Don't put too much stock into what this guy says
He wanted John Beck to replace Rex. Yes. that John Beck.
I think there were many of us who wanted to see what Beck could do
And to be honest I was one of them simply because he was an unknown. He didn’t turn out to be what I thought he could be, which was at least better than Rex. Don’t go there, there were a lot of us on here who wanted to see what Beck could do.
by Bryan Black on Jan 24, 2012 6:42 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
He had blind faith in Shanahan's smoke and mirrors...
They did all of that so the Giants wouldn’t know who to prepare for week 1
"Honey Badger Don't Care"
And there were lots of us who said you guys were wrong then
6-0 in the Divisional Round and Conference Championships
by Jeff Bernard on Jan 24, 2012 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
It doesn't matter
Everyone’s opinion on Beck lacked basis because he was an unknown…don’t give me his Miami days because we’ve been through that before
by Bryan Black on Jan 24, 2012 6:46 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
A guy who had been on 2 teams and was traded for Doug Dutch is not an unknown
6-0 in the Divisional Round and Conference Championships
by Jeff Bernard on Jan 24, 2012 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
So your talents are known once your traded for Doug Dutch?
Really, totally unrelated. Don’t disagree just to disagree. He played a few games with Miami and none with Baltimore…his talent was unknown to all of us and obviously Shanny too because of his lack of game experience. Im sure that you will next tell me that Flynn is a known commodity?
by Bryan Black on Jan 24, 2012 10:57 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I mention Doug Dutch because that was his value to the Ravens. He does practice, he played in preseason games, he does participate in drills and coaches know what he brings to the table. This was an example of Shanny believing he could coach up a guy to a backup level quality player. I don’t for one second believe Shanny ever thought John Beck was a potential long term starter. Can you please give me one example in NFL history of a guy being traded to 3 different teams and then going on to become a quality NFL caliber QB? I’ll save you the time, you can’t because it doesn’t happen.
6-0 in the Divisional Round and Conference Championships
by Jeff Bernard on Jan 25, 2012 9:26 AM EST up reply actions
Trent Green comes to mind
For anyone to say that they knew was Beck was about, simply, would have been guessing because he didn’t have the starts. Yes, the same way everyone wants to “guess” with Flynn.
by Bryan Black on Jan 25, 2012 11:56 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Beck did start games in Miami so not sure what you are talking about.
6-0 in the Divisional Round and Conference Championships
by Jeff Bernard on Jan 25, 2012 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
He started as a rookie…on a shitty team…and he started what, 5 games? Do you consider that an accurate gauge of talent? We are getting off point. The point is that Beck was am unknown, true or false? The point is that if anyone speculated that he was no good, it was just that pure speculation. For anyone to pull out the “I told you so” card with Beck when no one knew is crazy because there was not much to go on.
by Bryan Black on Jan 25, 2012 8:37 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
The point is that Beck was am unknown, true or false?
False
6-0 in the Divisional Round and Conference Championships
by Jeff Bernard on Jan 26, 2012 9:57 AM EST up reply actions
Rich Gannon
but I fully agree with everything you said.
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
yeah but u cant blame i H8 for that....
thats all on mike shanahan…..
by munson21502 on Jan 24, 2012 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
I have to disagree.
Shanahan made one comment, almost entirely in coach-speak, about the only QB he had under contract, and the DC media started chasing their tails with the only football soundbite they’d heard in months. I didn’t hear the Beck hype out of the front office that local reporters seemed to WANT to hear.
haha exactly
The guy said he believed in both of his QBs and all of a sudden Shanny had bet his entire coaching career.
6-0 in the Divisional Round and Conference Championships
by Jeff Bernard on Jan 24, 2012 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
You go get franchise QB in draft
Franchise QB > extra picks: QB ability to raise level of play for wole team. See Manning, Peyton; Brady, Tom (especially early SB years throw to likes of Troy Brown) Brees; Drew.
A franchise QB had the ability to make his own defense better by scoring points thus making it easier for his D to play from a position of strength. (rushing passer) see New England, Indy, New Orleans D’s.
More over elite ones make surronding talent better. If Shan-Allen see’s RGIII as that guy then trade & get him!
Build team around franchise QB > build team THEN find a “caretaker” QB. (Alex Smith, Kolb type)
I'm worried about the beer supply. After this case, and the other case, there's only one case left- Barney Gumble
by CptChaosSidekick on Jan 24, 2012 7:19 AM EST via mobile reply actions
fail.
Brees was drafted by the Chargers, and went to the Saints through FA. Derp.
by TheDeepBall on Jan 24, 2012 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
The Chargers drafted Rivers to be the Franchise QB
Brees finally put it together when they got Rivers so they had 2 guys, they should have traded one of them but Brees was a free agent, that is not the case most of the time in the NFL. Brees was not somebody’s backup with only 2 starts when he went to Saints
by Highspeed30 on Jan 24, 2012 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
And exactly how many playoff games has Philip Rivers cranked out for the Chargers organization?
by StephanHart on Jan 24, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
He got a handicapp cause Norv is his head Coach
but Rivers is 3-4 in the playoffs that is not bad, but that was not the point i was making just saying that Brees blossomed in San Diego when the got Rivers and they should have traded one of them but brees was a free agent and hurt his shoulder in playoffs
I don't understand this
To get Barkley, we will have to have either the 1st or 2nd pick in the draft in 2013. I don’t understand what he could give us over Luck or RG3. We are STILL going to have to give up a ton of picks to move up for him. Why are we going to postpone the enevitable?
Could’t we do the exact same thing this season? Bring in a WR, G and maybe C in FA. Move up in the draft for one of the two QB’s, then draft a T in the 3rd. Next year we could use our 2nd for a CB.
Doesn’t this in essence give us the same thing, just we get it done a year sooner, and can start the healing process that much quicker?
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
by Tiller56 on Jan 24, 2012 8:04 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
I don’t believe we could do quite as much this season. We will continue to rebuild, obviously, but I believe we could create a more stable learning environment for a QB than we’ll be able to make heading into this camp. Don’t get me wrong, if Shanny sees RGIII and says, “this is absolutely my guy,” I’m fine with him pulling the trigger. I just don’t want to see the next guy the Redskins go for at QB flame out. There’s always a risk of it, and if it’s compounded by the loss of several draft picks at a time when we need upgrades at several positions, another bust at QB could be backbreaking for this franchise.
From a pure talent standpoint though
I feel RG3 > Barkley. Better arm, better mobility, Better leadership, better accuracy. Theiur size is about equal. Barkley has played in a pro style offense, so he gets the nod there.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
Not to mention the disparity of surrounding talent
RG3 had a lot less to work with at Baylor than Barkley does at USC. I’m skeptical of USC QB’s in general now, after seeing so many guys come out of that smoke ’n mirrors QB factory.
I agree - be wary of USC QBs
and in a way Foles is the opposite – he had very little talent around him but still found a way to win a lot of games.
You're right, he doesn't
But he also played on a team that had a horrendous defense that allowed a lot of points. Foles was always playing from behind
not a excuse, look at the parcell's criteria for a QB
Foles is not a winner, Baylor defense is horrible but they managed to win games, and they dont get the best talent but they put together a winning season
incase you havent been arround that long...
we have been dead last in the nfc east for 4 or 5 straight years…i think our backs have been broke and we need to make this move to get either luck or rg3 while we are near the botton or else with these small upgrades we will stay near 7-9 to 9-7 at best for ever.
by munson21502 on Jan 24, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
and never get "the guy" to improve us
A fan of losers, Redskins, Wizards, Orioles, Terps, Dale Jr, America
Name all the great QBs the Redskins have passed on in recent years. I'm all ears.
by StephanHart on Jan 24, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
technically they passed on Aaron Rodgers for Carlos Rogers
by Highspeed30 on Jan 24, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Thats quite a reach as an example. No one knew A-Rod was going to be what he is today, which is why he fell to the end of the 1st round.
by StephanHart on Jan 24, 2012 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
he was still one of the top 2 QB prospects
but i did not think they should have picked him cause the had a big need at CB that year, but i think they was thinking about getting either Rodgers or Campbell before they traded back into first rd, and when Green Bay took Rodgers they took Campbell
by Highspeed30 on Jan 24, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
I think the point is, with our record hanging around average...
it has always put us too far away from the top prospects. We could have traded up for Cam (absolutely not my suggestion) or Matt Ryan or Eli / Rivers, but they chose to not trade up for them, taking the 2nd tier guys who have failed miserably.
I keep hearing this push your chips in for Barkley next year???
I think that mentality is weak and not sensible because if trading up this year for RG3 is a risk cause he may be a bust then what make Barkley or whoever next year such a sure thing or cant miss???
Everything you outlined in this post you can do this year even with a trade up scenario for RG3. the Skins have money to spend this year in FA especially if you dont go waste cap space on a unproven guy such as Flynn. you can get a upgrrade at G, Wr, or SS and fill in with the remaining draft picks.
He's a little more conventional than RG III
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve got a full on mancrush on Robert Griffin, but I’m always cagey when it comes to QBs who make plays with their legs. It’s more than a question of whether they’ll be that FAST compared to NFL linebackers, it’s the spatial awareness and mental processing that they’ll also need to step up to maintain that elusiveness.
Ultimately, no QB is a sure thing, but at the moment, I have serious questions about the rest of the team as well, and I’d rather the foundation was more sturdy before we threw a young QB to the wolves. Barkley’s not a lock; no college QB is. But next year he’s have 4 years experience in a west coast pro style offense, and we could create an environment much more conducive to QB development we have at the moment.
If by more conventional you mean,
less accurate with a weaker arm, then yes, Barkley is more conventional.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
We are picking number 6.....
unless you are expecting more regression and coaching to stay intact……The top QBs next year are simply not an option. We hopefully will not be in a better position to get our franchise QB for a long long time. We only need to move up 4 spots to guarantee one of the top 2 QBs…….next season…we may have to move up 10-15……the cost will be even more ridiculous. If you have a guy you are sold on….that can be the face of your franchise for years…..that can rejuvenate a fan base….and hopefully turn your laughing stock of a team around….you have to go get him. There is no more time to be cute!
Can we please get a mother f***ing QB we can be proud of?!?!?!?!?!?!
Because trading back this year
would likely net us some extra ammunition for next year’s draft. For example, If we were to trade back with, say Cincy, and get the 17th and 21st picks, we could then trade the 21st pick for a 2nd rounder this year and a 1st rounder next year.
by TheDeepBall on Jan 24, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
That is a lot of hoping???
you are hoping that the Bengals trade up with you and give you both their 1st rd picks and then you are hoping that another mystery team trade up for pick #21 and give you a 1st rd pick next year and then you are hoping that in 2013 whatever team that is at the top of the draft dont need a Franchise QB prospect and willing to trade with you for a Barkley, Bray or Jones. too much hoping
by Highspeed30 on Jan 24, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Trading back to any team really
by 10+ spots would likely net us a 1st next year, one way or another. If Richardson or Blackmon are there it’s not a long shot.
you are still operating under the hope theory
as i explained to you the other day the Bengals aint gonna trade with the Redskins just cause you want them to. The Bengals FO get paid too and they gonna try and get the best deal possible to get the guy they want if they want Richardson. they would be better served trading with Carolina or Buffalo to move up vs paying a higher price with the Skins that would make no sense
I just explained
that there are an assload of possibilities to trade back. Cincy was just the most preferable trade partner.
Like who??
you always saying trade back but dont provide no details of a trade back scenario that make any kinda sense. Like with who and for what since there are so many possibilities
It depends entirely on the situation
If Blackmon gets to us, Jacksonville might be willing to merely swap spots and hand us an extra 3rd. Cincy could want to get him for a monster WR tandem with AJ Green. Arizona could decide to upgrade their weapons. Chicago is in major need of a legitimate receiving threat. San Francisco could decide to hand Alex Smith another weapon and trade a huge bundle of picks to move up. Cleveland might decide they want to add a weapon to their offense for RG3.
If Claiborne Falls to us, Carolina needs help all over their Defense. Detroit needs help in their secondary. So does (and I hate to say this) Dallas. New England might want to improve their Secondary. Maybe New England decides they want to upgrade their secondary.
If RIchardson falls to us (but he won’t, TB is taking him) then he could be pursued by Miami, KC, NYJ, Cincy, Cleveland, Detroit, or Pittsburgh.
The way I see it, at least one of these three will fall to us. Current mock drafts have it something like one of the two following scenarios:
1 – IND – Luck
2 – STL – Blackmon
3 – MIN – Kalil
4 – CLE – RG3
5 – TB – Richardson
6 – WAS – Claiborne
In this scenario, Carolina, Detroit, Dallas and New England are potential suitors for the pick.
Alternatively:
1 – IND – Luck
2 – STL – Kalil
3 – MIN – Claiborne
4 – CLE – RG3
5 – TB – Richardson
6 – WAS – Blackmon
In this scenario, Cincy, Arizona, Chicago, San Francisco, and Cleveland are potential trade partners.
Some team could come out of the blue offering a decent bundle for an unexpected player, like Devon Still or Riley Reiff.
The amount of picks we would net is entirely dependent of who we trade with. If we trade back anywhere between 5-10 spots, we’d likely net at least a 2nd round pick. If we move back 10-15, probably a 2nd and 3rd/4th. If we move back 15-20 spots, we’re in “2013 first round pick” territory.
The only reason you haven’t been able to see the high number of possibilities to trade back is because you don’t want to. No matter which of the top 6 players makes it to us, somebody will be asking for him, mark my words.
by TheDeepBall on Jan 24, 2012 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
you sure have a lot of hope, cause basically you are hoping a guy like Blackmon fall to 6 which is as likely as Luck not being picked #1 overall but if he did fall The Redskins should take him
Now as i stated previously to trade with Washington for Trent Richardson from any team would be foolish cause they could trade with Jacksonville,Carolina, Miami(not draftin a RB got Bush, and Thomas) or Buffalo who all pick after the Redskins and would be cheaper deals. so trade back option #1 is a no go BTW most likely Richardson will be the one to fall to 6 Tampa Bay will most likely go Claiborne but let look at hope #2
Hope #2 Claiborne falling to #6 pick which is possible but I dont think he will be there but lets look at your mystery teams or suitors cross New England off your list they dont trade up into the top 10 even with all the picks they stockpile every year. Cross carolina off your list cause they need front 7 help and could get Coples or Still so they could just stand pat. Detroit do need secondary help but they also need OLine and LB help I dont see them making the type of offer it would take to move up from 23 to 6 for a CB they passed on P. last year and finally the Cowboys do need CB help but why would you help them get anything unless the offer a kings ransom of picks like 2012 1st,2nd,4th and 2013 1st which i dont see happening when they can get there perfect kinda Cowboy in Dre Kirkpatrick. so maybe they offer this years 2nd and a 4th to get our 6th pick that is not enough IMO
So you see trading back it not as easy as you think it is cause you have to HOPE some team want to trade up, u cant make a team trade up or give u what u would want to trade down.
However in this years draft you got 3 teams in the top 5 that are willing to trade down St Louis Rams would love to add a pick or 2 and still get a guy they like, Minnesota would love if St louis took Blackmon/Kalil so they can see what they can get for the 3rd pick and still be able to get either Kalil, Reiff or Martin, and the Browns would be happy to trade down and add to the picks they already have and get a Richardson and a Wr to give Colt some weapons
I hope you understand
it is literally impossible to miss out on one of the top 6 prospects in this draft. That makes it easier to trade back than it does to trade up because you’re just HOPING that Cleveland wants to trade back instead of taking RG3 at #4. You’re HOPING they think Colt McCoy is the future of their franchise at QB. Holmgren obviously likes RG3 and in fact may even trade up for him. OH, and before you say “no way Cleveland trades up”, well sorry, you’re just HOPING that. That is a HOPE. Not a fact. Everything that anyone says leading up to the draft is a HOPE. You’re HOPING Mike Shanahan wants to trade up for RG3 and you’re HOPING Cleveland doesn’t trade up.
Man, come to think of it you sure have a lot of fucking hope.
Well it is pretty well known that St. louis and Minnesota are shopping their picks that is not hope
Most know that both teams will trade back if the price is right. and Cleveland showed last season that they will trade back for the right deal cause they needed Julio Jones but gave him up.
you are purely speculating that teams are looking to move up into the 6 spot with no real teams that is looking to move up like i said a lot of HOPE
but for St.louis and Minnesota it makes a lot of sense for them to trade down vs you hoping a team like Cincy trade up with u for Richardson which makes no sense
you are purely speculating that teams are looking to move up into the 6 spot with no real teams that is looking to move up like i said a lot of HOPE
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh12/mdv25/FacepalmMontage.gif
Dude. Nobody is shopping anything right now. Find me an article that quotes a representative with Minnesota or Saint Louis. Find me something concrete that says they’re looking to trade back. Then, if you can do that, find something that says Cleveland doesn’t want RG3. Until you can do any of that, all you have is pure speculation.
by TheDeepBall on Jan 25, 2012 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
TB need a CB badly to replace Barber
they won’t pass on Claiborne if he’s avaliable. Plus, don’t forget the problems they have had with Talib.
In scenerio 2, Minny needs a WR for Ponder, almost as much as we need a WR, so I can’t see them passing on Blackmon.
Things could definitly change, but in a pretty common scenerio, we are going to be stuch with a player we don’t need at pick #6, and are going to be hard pressed to find a trade back partner.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
Good point Tiller
If we do decide to trade back, Richardson is the guy on the board people want. TB will take Claiborne, and I just dont see Blackmon falling to us anymore than RGIII.
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
I just dont see The Redskins being in position to get Barkley next year.
cause our pick will probably be middle of the road 12-15 maybe. And then you would have wasted a pick this year on a QB maybe in the 2nd rd Tannehill or Foles it just dont make sense to me. I would rather take a flier on a guy in the 4th rd or later than waste a 2nd rd pick this year to go and get another QB in the 1st rd next year
Well
If we decide to pass on Griffin this year, we can build the line and WR corps, plus a few other postions, and then next year trade up. Hopefully, by then, the team, will be built, and we can afford to give up those picks.
Also, next years QB class could end up being damn good. While there is no Andrew Luck type of player, you do have Barkley, Jones, and Wilson all coming out. Bray and Murray may decide to come out as well. Not mention there may be other QBs (ala Griffin) who our not currently on our radar screen who might make an impact next year as well.
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
Is there a chance Bray goes back next year though?
A fan of losers, Redskins, Wizards, Orioles, Terps, Dale Jr, America
There's always a chance, but wasn't he contemplating entering the draft this season?
If he was considering it this year, I think it’s a lock he comes out next year
by StephanHart on Jan 26, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
he's wasn't redshirted then was he?
A fan of losers, Redskins, Wizards, Orioles, Terps, Dale Jr, America
I hear this argument every year: "next year the QB crop will be even better"
So I just don’t believe it anymore. It might even be true but what good is it if we aren’t willing to trade up to get one?
none of the 5-6 next year are better than the top 2 QB's this year
so you rather trade up next year for a QB that is not as good as the one this year, that makes a lot of sense.
but will they last until the 10th or so pick?
I expect us to win 7 or 8 games next year without QB changes (assuming other areas are improved) which will put us quite a ways back in the draft which will mean we might have to trade up next year.
And then it will be yet another eyar before they are developed so this is really the “compete in 2014 or 2015” plan. Personally I don’t like it.
I’d rather spend a 3rd / 4th / 5th round draft pick every single year (until you get a good QB) than continue to postpone drafting a QB. If we spend a 3rd round pick on a QB this year it doesn’t prevent us from doing so next year or the year after that until we get our guy.
I rarelly hear that
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
I've heard it 3 or 4 years in a row here
mostly because for years (srating at the very latest a couple of years after Jason Campbell was drafted) we’ve been debating what to do about the QB situation. We’ve made zero progress in all that time – sad, isn’t it?
WE will know by the time the draft comes what the deal will be...
if shanny and company go out and get a FA WR like Bowe or Vjax, and get a G or C like Meyers and Nicks, WE WILL be going all in for LUCK. if we arent very active in FA, then we will probably trade back, get picks, and go with tannehill or foles this year
I assume we will offer a trade for Luck regardless. But I don't see any scenario in which the Colts give up the #1 pick
by StephanHart on Jan 24, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
I think by "no" he means
he would rather dip his testacles in honey and squat over a colony of fire ants than see Grossman play next year.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
fire ants hate honey
…they love maple syrup.
Hail to 'Em
by SkinsaneAsylum on Jan 24, 2012 9:23 AM EST up reply actions
who wouldnt..
i would personally go with jelly though
Grab any QB off the street (except for Beck)
and put him in place of Train Rex.
NO! NO! NO! and HELL NO!
no.. the chances of all 5 of our first 5 picks being starters in very slim
we got really lucky last year… the year before last think we only got 2 starter and 1 of them was banks. i say we deal picks 1-4 for the number 2 pick of the draft. its worth the gamble imo. specialy after they was willing to give a 2 and 3 for old mcnabb that got beat out by both vick and kolb.
I don't think it was so much that we were lucky
as it was that we had SO many needs. And we still do. Our front 7’s looking good. We seem to be OK at tailback as well. Can you name a single other position that we’re “set” at? Corner, safety, receiver corps (if Hank pans out, great, but if not?), guard, tackle, center, tight end, and of course QB. All of those spots need addressing. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if we got 5 new starters next year.
by Nigad Osman on Jan 24, 2012 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
and we can still get 5 starters even if we trade up
with the money it would cost to sign flynn. plus you gotta think the team will still look to draft a qb in the 2nd and we will have to move up to get that rookie qb that will replace flynn in 3 years.so that wastes the second rounder right there plus the picks we lose to move up. so we are better off to save the timeand the flynn money and use the wasted picks to go ahead and grab our franchise qb
by munson21502 on Jan 25, 2012 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
Find me a team that's set at WR
And I’m sure you will find a franchise QB throwing it to him
by Bryan Black on Jan 25, 2012 12:07 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
exactly look at how much Eli raised his game this year
with the development of Hakeem Nicks and Victor Cruz
A fan of losers, Redskins, Wizards, Orioles, Terps, Dale Jr, America
There are about the same number of free agents in 2012 as there were in 2011, i.e., 500 plus. There were
also in the neighborhood of 70-80 starters. There are about 200 free agents that have 3 to 5 years of experience. The Skins could have had as many free agents on offense as they had on defense in the 2011 season. Free agents will cost more than rookies even with the new salary scale. Part of your list “Corner, safety, receiver corps …, guard, tackle, center, tight end,” of can be in place before the draft. Consequently, the draft can concentrate on skill positions. There may not be five starters in the draft picks, but there would be less risks of them being NFL quality (better than replacement quality players.)
by Jefferson1935 on Jan 25, 2012 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
No, No, NO...
No amount of substantially better players at every other position could negate the constant turnovers Rex brings to the table… whether those turnovers are picks, fumbles or inability to get a first down. Even the best defenses in history wear down if they are on the field 45 of the 60 minutes of play.
No sir. In all my years as a football fan, nothing gave me more of a hopeless feeling in the pit of my stomach then when the Redskins had no future, no potential, no glimmer of talent in the game or sitting on their bench at Quarterback.
A very sad season and I can’t go through it again.
The Knightwatchman
There is no reason we
Can’t do both. The chips may not fall the way we want in terms of getting a franchise QB next year , but we should be able to upgrade the the QB position. Hell Orton or Campbell are much better than Rex. And if the argument is that Rex knows the system, and those guys dont, then there is something wrong with the system.
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
Stop talking JC, he is NOT coming here to play QB next year or any year
by StephanHart on Jan 24, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
you never know
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
We're trading up for one of the top two QBs.
I know it, you know it, Shanny knows it, Snyder knows it, Bruce Allen knows it and the fans know it.
Rex Grossman and John Beck are football suicide.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
Don't discount the possibility of a 2nd round QB
by StephanHart on Jan 24, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
me too
when we pick at 6th spot there isnt really a elite player of need left. so we will have to reach with the #6 pick for a guy projected mid teens . then we may have to trade up in the 2nd to even get a top notch 2nd round qb. so good bye picks 3 or 4 or maybe both if thats the case…. we are better off to offer picks 1-4 for RG3 at the #2 spot
yeah that elite player is richardson though
and thats just our luck lol plus not manny teams behind us need a rb that bad so teams futher behind us wont even offer us much to trade back with them because they know we dont need another rb
But taking something is better than drafting a player we don't need
And you’d be surprised what teams will do when they see a player they covet (Richardson) sitting there at #6….instinct and action start to rise above logic in such situations.
I’m confident we’ll find a decent trading partner, if we desire one, at #6
I'm in the minority here, but if we don't grab RG3 Trent is the one player I would LOVE to have here.
Trust me, if Evan Royster and Roy Helu can easily put up a buck on teams, Trent will be an ANIMAL.
He would immediately be everyone’s favorite player.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
shanny has been fishing for rbs since he got here
in both the draft and FA. i think he landed 2 good ones last year. as much as ied love to have a A pertson type of rb on our team you can see by the vikes he doesnt help them win that many games in the last 2 years. with a better qb our current rbs will be even better in the future. i think rg3 really helps us when he rolls out real fast you know lbs are gonna follow him even if he hands the ball off or pitches it to helu so by the time the defence recovers from the fake roll out helu will already have 5 yards or give them the edge
I would not give up 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and a 4th all in this season for RG3
but i do understand your logic, cause u may have to end up trading up ealry into the 2nd or late first to get a chance at the 2nd tier QB’s maybe a additional 3rd this year to move up. and if that guy dont work out u just wasted a 2nd/3rd pick u traded to get the guy.
I am for trading up to get Griffin but i would rather spread it out give them a 2nd this year and a 1st next season and another later rd pick in 2013 3rd/4th
that could work.
i just dont wanna see us reaching at 6. then having to trade up in the second. ied be happy with a trade back if we got a big deal. and we didnt use those extra picks plus more on barkley next year… i think this team is playoff ready or pretty close to it. so most likey we are gonna have to add to what ever picks we pick up with a trade back this year. i think our best chance in this current coaching staff life as a redskin coach is to make a move for luck or rg3 this year. they cant afford to keep rex or sign orton plus draft a qb in the 2nd who wont be ready till midway threw a season 2 years from now. i dont wanna see them get fired and leave us with a bunch of system players with a whole new coaching staff. we all been threw this enuff in the last 20 years
Exactly.
I’m also of the mindset that Snyder will want to see something this year, or Shanahan is fired.
I think RG3 will keep him employed, even if the team goes 7-9, 8-8 etc.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
i dont think we have a choice jeff
our home games are starting to become home games for the other team. we need a franchise qb, mike shanahan needs 1, synder wants 1. if we go into next season without 1 and finish under 9-7 my snyder will be ready to push the reset button. our only hope if we dont move up is if we get flynn and he blows up for us. but there goes alot of money with hat plan. and he doesnt like good threwout the season bye bye mike shanahan.
by munson21502 on Jan 25, 2012 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
i just can't see us giving up next years one and this years 2 & 3 (and possibly a 2nd 2 if we traded down)
Thats a playmaker next year and quality players we could get
Reiff
Floyd or Jefferys
and best OL available
then a 3rd rd CB / FS / SS!
A fan of losers, Redskins, Wizards, Orioles, Terps, Dale Jr, America
We are not going to trade up. I guarantee it.
And this isn’t one of those Tiller guarantees that are always wrong either.
6-0 in the Divisional Round and Conference Championships
by Jeff Bernard on Jan 24, 2012 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
ill be really shocked if we dont trade up this year.
if we woulda lost 7 in a row instead of 6 we would be in perfect shape right now.
1. we wouldnt have to trade up for rg3
2. even if some1 jumped us we could get the top wr or the top lineman
by munson21502 on Jan 25, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
My thoughts exactly but it is what it is now
and the best move is to trade up and get the Franchise QB prospect, If the Redskins was in Browns position i would not trade up but wait and see cause i could still get the best Wr in the draft @ the 4 spot or i could trade back. People keep talking about trading back but there aint nobody at the 6 spot the other teams got to have.
I agree we need way to much and we can fill a lot just by moving back 5 places
if we move back to 11-15
we can get Floyd
an additional 2nd Rounder
a starting olmen
and Weeden (he’s moving up from steves post)
A fan of losers, Redskins, Wizards, Orioles, Terps, Dale Jr, America
that would be nice
i really hope things pan out for us. but i really think a move up is needed this year.. mike has tried the FA QB thing and doesnt really have the time to wait on a project qb imo.
by munson21502 on Jan 25, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
For all we know Dan Snyder is a changed man
I don’t see him talking, I don’t see him intruding.
The fact is you may hate him but Dan Snyder is a smart smart man….otherwise he wouldn’t of been a millionaire in his 20s.
Second off I think Mike went to Dan and said something along these line
Dan: Hey Mike whats up
Mike: Danny I’ve got some bad new
Dan: What do you mean, did Vinny not get my checks?
Mike: No not that bad, Matt Barkley (F that kid) went back to USC
Dan: Shit
Mike: Whats worse is RG3’s value is now skyrocketing with such little QB talent left
Dan: Well are we going to get a QB?
Mike: We might…..
Vinny: Carson Palmer might be available we could send two first and 3 seconds….
Mike: We might not be able to get a top end QB this year due to the circumstance were in right now
Dan: Well it’s not your fault Matt Barkley (f that kid) went back to school, theres no sense in overvaluing a player
We all think Dan Snyder is dumb and non football savy, however I’m sure he knows a lot more then even the most knowledgeable of us here know. He’s not going to make a harsh decision based on the fact Mike Shanahan couldn’t get a QB for a fair price this year. Yes he wants to win and sell tickets, but he also knows that a year of splurging like this could set him back 4-5 years. Its a gamble, and its much better to gamble when things are going your way, not right after you were mugged had your identity stolen. We need to establish ourselves before we go back to vegas and play craps again.
A fan of losers, Redskins, Wizards, Orioles, Terps, Dale Jr, America
WOW...
it’s like you were there and heard everything. You must be a super-spy or something…
Could you tell us, what did Mike say in regards to players he is targeting? Any info would be helpful, so we conpirators could stop throwing bombs, when all the facts are out there…
No need to be a dick
were all redskins fans here. Point is nobody thinks Danny knows whats going on…he knows we got fucked when we won 5 games he knows we got fucked when Barkley went back, he knows we got bent over a chair when peyton went down for the season and the colts go 2-14 on the year Andrew Luck declared for the draft.
A fan of losers, Redskins, Wizards, Orioles, Terps, Dale Jr, America
sorry for the offense...
it apparently was a lame attempt at humor. OUCH!!!
I think Daniel still owns the team, has an incredible desire for a winner, and, contrary to popular belief, will always be a meddling owner. There are varying degrees of his meddling (much less with this regime), but a cheetah cannot change his spots…
Well Dan the fan did not know as much 11 years ago as he knows now. If he hasn't learned
anything about managing a NFL team from the ownership position by now then he is not smart. Some people think that wigit are universally replaceable from one management scheme to another.
by Jefferson1935 on Jan 25, 2012 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
I look at someone like...
Jerry Jones. Your point about owning a team over a period of time, allows the owner to gain experience, learning from his mistakes, that is a logical thought. But I don’t know if it is always true; see Jones. For the last three years, Dallas has been labeled as one of the most talented teams in the league. I’m sure Jones took credit for that. But, they have missed the mark. Does Jones accept responsibility for it? No, he fires coaches. He refuses to step down as GM. He will continue to run the show, which is his right, since he has the $$$$.
Has Snyder learned from his mistakes? Some, I’m sure. But his nature is to run the show, which is his right, since he has the $$$$.
A better question would be – Does having Snyder as owner prevent our team from developing into a winner? My answer is NO! His best / worst asset is, he throws money around. He is not shy to make whatever changes he needs to make. Getting rid of Vinny was probably personally difficult. But now he has an experienced GM running the operations, along with an experienced HC. The only thing Snyder should do is LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE! I hope he can do so…
I'll believe when I see it
He’s only managed to step back for 2 seasons so the jury is still out.
your guarentee based on nothing means so much
no offense but nobody – anywhere – can guarentee anything with the draft.
at least this post has a more realistic proposal...
Not that I am promoting Rex, but the recent posts about Ponder, Colin Kaeperwhatever, have reeked of Cheech & Chong material…
No, I believe this is the year we make our move. It is all about timing, and with our salary cap, EXCELLENT draft last year, and the expectations on the HC, the writing on the wall is very legible….
Everyone answer this one question:
Which NFL teams would be better/the same with Rex Grossman as QB?
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
the colts
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
He might take the Colts from two wins to four or five? At best?
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
Your giving him too much credit
3 games max
by JeanBaptiste on Jan 24, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
colts need alot more help then just qb and the owner knows it...
if the texans and jags didnt choke down the stretch the colts woulda never won the afc south the year before even with manning. now that the texan have inproved on D they have alot of work to do imo. i think they keep luck but will be begging to deal that 1st pick of the second round for extra picks.
Huh?
i think they keep luck but will be begging to deal that 1st pick of the second round for extra picks.
Huh?
i think they keep luck but will be begging to deal that 1st pick of the second round for extra picks.
Munson must have passed out...
thought he was posting on another topic. This can be the only explanation.
Either that or, Munson, call 911……….
huh?
what are you guys talking about ? colts need a ton of help more then us even.i wouldnt be shocked to see them trade luck. but i doubt they will because qb worth more then any other spot on the team. but you can bet ur ass they will be trying to trade their 2nd rounder to get extra picks.
oh u guys thought i ment keep luck and trade their first pick lol
they do also get the first pick of the second round right?
i did. the reply button isnt making sense!
tried to reply to ih8 comment about would rex make the colts better. i think the colts will need more help then even luck can give them. so i know for sure rex wouldnt have helped them. we are a 8-8 team at worst and because of him and john beck we won 5 games total.
no...no......no....No...No...NO! NO! NO!
this is not a good plan. We need to draft our QB now for 2 reasons:
1) It’s going to take at elast 1 if not 2 years to develop the QB.
2) If we pick a QB now when we have a reasonably early pick then we won’t have to trade up to get a good QB. If the team improves to mediocrity then we have to spend even more to trade up – not a good plan.
Considering the number of people who use Cam Newton as an example for getting a top 5 QB
I would think the “development time” issue is a little ridiculous.
Secondly, trading back guarantees us the ammunition we need to trad up in 2013.
by TheDeepBall on Jan 24, 2012 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
1 example doesn't change the general principle
very few QBs come in and do well their rookie year, even those drafted in the top 10.
trading back gives us more ammo but also means we’ll have to spend more because we’ll be moving a lot more. At best it’s a wash.
Read this today.Makes me think we will trade up.
There will be competition for Flynn’s services and the cost of his contract will go into eight figures annually. The last coveted backup quarterback to hit the market was the Patriots’ Matt Cassel. In 2009 the Chiefs signed him to a contract that was just north of $10 million per year (6 years, $63 million).
Flynn will almost certainly get more than that. With new TV contracts coming that will drastically increase player salaries, Flynn’s agent certainly will ask for a cut of that. Without the big revenue increases we would expect that Flynn’s deal would be worth about 20 percent more than Cassel’s deal, or about $12 million per year. The TV deals could drive it up to the $14 million-$15 million range.
Let’s work with a conservative number of $13 million. That is not an unreasonable deal for a quality starting NFL quarterback. But it is a lot more than the Redskins would have to pay Robert Griffin.
Last year, quarterback Cam Newton was the first pick of the draft and he got a four-year contract worth about $22 million. Given annual contract inflation, that is about what Griffin should expect to get if he is the second pick in the draft.
If you do the math, you can see that Griffin would cost about $8 million less per year than would Flynn. Yes, the Redskins would be minus a couple of high draft picks that they would have to spend to move up. But they would have an extra $8 million per year to spend on free agents or to retain their own players. That certainly could balance out some of the sting of the loss of the draft picks.
You can reach Rich Tandler by email at RTandlerCSN@comcast.net and you should follow him on Twitter @Rich_Tandler.
I read that article yesterday
and i just think it is time to make the move to get a guy like RG3 teach him your system and develop him into a top 10 type QB. I just think this kid is willing to put in the work to be great, and he seems like such a team player. If you were to make a move on a kid this is the one he got Zero character concerns
looking at the other options it makes too much sense to move up
1. who will be left at #6? that we need really bad without hoping a team makes us a trade offer to trade back?
2.do we want to get in a money war over flynn?
3.we are most likely gonna have to either trade up in the 2nd round to get a qb too. maybe even have to trade up to the first round to get 1 of the better 2nd round qbs. so good bye to our 3rd and maybe 1 of our 4s.
4.the seat will be warm for mike shanahan and snyder has got to be dieing to stick his nose in by now. and i couldnt really blame him since mike shanahan is at or near the bottom with the worst coaches he has ever had. and thats with a new gm and with out snyder hands being in the mix.
money is less important that draft picks
draft picks are way cheaper too so we can get more…but only if we don’t trade them away.
A fan of losers, Redskins, Wizards, Orioles, Terps, Dale Jr, America
but we will have to trade them anyway
or we risk not getting a qb at all again this year. unless we wanna roll the dice on a later round qb and hope he will be better then john beck in 2 years. im just so sick of losing im willing to take a risk at a franchise qb while the the cost is cheap. i dont think the other teams behind us will offer over what we can offer from the 6 spot. plus gonna be alot harder to get that franchise qb in the future as the team gets better. we were john beck not starting 3 games awy from going 7-9 if we get even a tiny upgrade over grossmen we are 8-8 easy at that point its gonna take a ton of picks from a few drafts to get a chance at a frachise qb.
a first 2 2nds and 2 3rds is not cheap
Thats Brian Orakpo, Jarvis Jenkins, and wow we haven’t had any recent 2nd rounders, Leonard Hankerson
I certainly don’t want to get rid of any of them
A fan of losers, Redskins, Wizards, Orioles, Terps, Dale Jr, America
But why could also be
Jimmy Clausen, Devin Thomas or Malcolm Kelly also
by Bryan Black on Jan 25, 2012 5:32 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
those were not Mike Shans picks,
I included Brian Orakpo because I consider the time we drafted him as when the time in DC changed
A fan of losers, Redskins, Wizards, Orioles, Terps, Dale Jr, America
Yeah, I would take this...
If, between the upcoming draft and free agency, we land a legit shackles corner, a jump up and grab it receiver, a new tackle and a pair of guards (rich FA year for guards), and a solution at strong safety, could you take one more year of Rex, knowing that we’d THEN push our chips in to grab Matt Barkley or someone else who proves himself?
The problem with this scenario (& I said above I would take it) is that after these moves, even with Rex Grossman at QB, we are probably going to be an 8-8,9-7 or even a 10-6 team that is in the play-offs but much farther away from being able to draft an elite QB prospect.
you have to understand, Dad...
there are those that believe that, with some time, some of the second level talent at QB MAY develop into an ABOVE AVERAGE QB, with the potential to win some games, and, who knows, maybe a wild card playoff game. I’m sure the next Brady is right around the corner…
I think your win-loss estimate is generous
with a bad QB we’ll still be 6-10 to 8-8 and then Snyder will be thinking about who his next coach is.
You think that this team
with a much better offensive line, an upgrade at corner, and a legit #1 receiver, as well as the return of some players from injury isn’t worth 9+ wins? Come on. Look at all the games where one play made the difference, or one TD would have, and then make that a W and not a loss. Hell, with those upgrades we would have swept the cowboys, beaten the 49ers, and probably beaten the Pats too. we might even have split with the Eagles. That would put us at 10-6 and in the playoffs.
I know QB is important and all, but I think you guys put way too much emphasis on it.
plus the 3 kneel down games at beck as our starter
we are better then our 5-12 record imo. i think we are a 7-9 9-7 team even with the bad qb play of a guy like rex. but beck is like taking a knee every single snap
There is no reason to not to come away with a upgrade in talent for the Qb position in FA or the draft. Grossman has the mental aspects but no talent. The coaches should be able to easily find better talent and then the question just become if they can coach up the mental aptitude of that person.
It would be inexcusable not to have better talent at the position than Grossman and would likely get Shanny fired this year or the next.
Just think. If we could throw fumbles down the field Devin Thomas might still be a Redskin
A fan of losers, Redskins, Wizards, Orioles, Terps, Dale Jr, America
if that was us playing the 49ers..
u know damn well those balls woulda went straight to a 49er player or they woulda went out of bounds.. just look at the first cowboy game. how manny bad snaps went over romos head? like 5 of them and every single 1 bounced right to them like romo was wearing a giant magnet on his cheast instead of a flap jacket lol
you are correct we are cursed
time for a name change and a move back to DC. And I believe its flack jacket not flap but I may be wrong.
A fan of losers, Redskins, Wizards, Orioles, Terps, Dale Jr, America

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