Washington Redskins select OG DeCastro?
by dbtimsah on Jan 21, 2012 10:26 PM EST
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There is tons of talk regarding who the Washington Redskins should take with the 6th overall pick of the 2012 NFL draft. Most mock draft boards have the skins taking QB Robert Griffin III (RG3), while still most admit he won’t be available at that spot anyway.
Personally, I’m not completely sold that RG3 is the answer for the skins. Every offseason the desperation for a game-changing QB adds to the hyped-up and inflated expectations. I don’t foresee Mike Shanahan reaching for any expensive top 4 pick, even to land RG3. The top tier quarterbacks will be taken, most likely Blackmon will be gone too. Some are now predicting the skins to select a DB with the top pick. However, Shanahan has already mentioned that this offseason the offense was the primary concern. They will of course still address some defensive areas (ILB more demanding with Flechers age) but none that calls for a top pick. With this in mind, here are my thoughts on a winning 2012 draft strategy for the Washington Redskins.
1) Redskins select OG David DeCastro in 1st round, the top offensive guard in the NFL draft. It’s even possible the skins could trade down to stay within the top 12 to still land DeCastro and add more picks. Sound familiar? Last year Shanahan gained much praise for doing exactly this and still landed a pro-bowl LB in Ryan Kerrigan. Here’s some insight into DeCastro from SB Nation;
"Stanford David DeCastro could be the first interior lineman taken. The 6-foot-5, 310-pound guard is considered the seventh best overall prospect by Mocking the Draft and he was the No. 9 pick in the latest SB Nation Mock Draft…It's not hard to find things to like about DeCastro. For starters, he was one of the anchors on an offensive line that allowed quarterback Andrew Luck to be sacked just 11 times in 13 games this year. He's considered a top prospect with few, if any, glaring flaws in his game." From http://www.sbnation.com/2011-nfl-draft/2012/1/3/2679995/david-decastro-2012-nfl-draft
2) With one guard spot solid for years to come, the skins should look at addressing the QB position by selecting Ryan Tannehill with the next pick (2nd round). Considered the 3rd top QB in this draft class, and one the skins should not have to reach for. Also, while RG3 may have great upside – he also has BUST written all over him. Tannehill has the athleticism to make plays with his feet and can get the ball down field, perfect for a west coast style offense. Just read what one article says about Tannehill;
"Tannehill has displayed much better pocket sense. Combined with his foot quickness and athleticism, he moves efficiently to avoid pressure and can re-set, either in the pocket or outside, with accurate throws. He does an excellent job of reading defenses. When he finds open receivers, Tannehill gets rid of the ball quickly and is usually on target. He is more poised than before, and doesn't panic as plays breakdown. Also, he doesn't throw the ball up for grabs to avoid sacks.
Tannehill has good arm strength and does a good job of throwing the ball where only the receiver can make a play. For a player who was viewed as a likely fourth-round pick entering the 2011 season, we have heard scouts talk about him being a high second-round pick now." From: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/feed/2011-10/nfl-mock-draft/story/aggies-ryan-tannehill-making-most-of-senior-season
3) If they picked up another 2nd by trading down from #6, they should draft OC Peter Konz. If they trade down early and get DeCastro, They may have to reach up into the late 1st round or top 2nd round to nab Konz, but he’s worth it. Here are some comments on how dominate of a center this guy would be for the Redskins:
"Konz has great size for a center and uses all of his 315 pounds to his advantage. Whether he is in pass protection, making calls along the line, or bum-rushing defensive linemen as a run blocker, there aren't many holes in his game."
"As far as his technique, he does an excellent job of finding any blitzing linebackers, releasing from a double-team and sliding into position to make a block. His run blocking is great and if need be, he could fill-in at guard for most NFL teams. Konz does well to find the middle linebacker on every play and very rarely is Wisconsin's line caught off guard. He is able to quickly create running lanes up the middle by exploding into defenders and knocking them off their pursuit angles."
From: http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=2906
4) Another player the skins should target in the 3rd round (if available) is Tight End Coby Fleener from Stanford. A guy that can stretch the field and score TD’s should be high on the skins list. Just consider Chris Cooley’s season-ending injury in 2011 and Fred Davis’ drug charge and pending free-agency. Here’s one brief article on Fleener;
"Fleener caught 34 passes for Stanford, actually averaging 19.6 yards per catch to go along with the 10 TDs. Mocking the Draft calls Fleener "the latest in the growing number of big, lanky receiving tight ends. He's an extremely proficient vertical passing threat."" From: http://newyork.sbnation.com/new-york-giants/2012/1/17/2713159/2012-nfl-mock-draft-new-york-giants-prospect-profiles-coby-fleener
5) Beyond this the Redskins should target an ILB, CB and WR the remainder of the draft. I would also suspect the skins to sign at least 1 WR in free-agency, such as Saints’ Marques Colston. Combined with a healthy Leonard Hankerson, this could be a dangerous duo. I would suspect the skins to select one WR from rounds 4 – 7. Some possible noteworthy names would be Ryan Broyles for OU, Chris Givens from Wake Forest, or Marvin McNutt from Iowa. All three of these can make plays on the ball and after the catch, which is what the Redskins need most at the WR position.
With this draft strategy, they may not be the sexy picks. Just remember what made the Redskins dominate in the 1980’s? Were the Hogs sexy picks? No, but tough offensive and defensive linemen are exactly what it takes to win in the NFL. With two top-tier offensive interior linemen, the Redskins offensive line would now be solidified for 10 years (along with T. Williams at LT).
Seems like every year that a few injuries occur on the skins O-line, the season quickly flushes down the toilet. With added depth on the line, this immediately buys the QB time in the pocket and for WR’s time to get open. It also helps establish a consistent running game. It’s time this team gets back to solid and smart offensive football, and that always starts up front. As a Redskins fan, I would be proud to add these pair of future Hogs in DeCastro and Konz to the team. Landing a solid QB and other possible rookies like Fleener would be icing on the cake. Hail to the Redskins!
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I'll take the second option
I get anxiety for QB picks
OH YEAH!!!
by the maroon bird on Jan 21, 2012 10:33 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I Agree
This is the type of strategy that we need to get as much as we can out of the draft and also the free agency. it can be done if handled properly.
With free agency occurring before the draft, the draft can be used more effectively. The more free agents the
Team can sign at reasonable cost levels, the more the draft can be used to select “game changers,” especially young, experienced free agents that have just finished their rookie contracts that can build up the depth at their positions. Depth is needed to cover for the inevitable injuries that occur through the season.
The draft of the best center available with a high pick (2nd rd) will provide an improved base for the offensive line signal caller for years to come. Good guards can be had in free agency.
by Jefferson1935 on Jan 22, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
Hankerson still needs work
Let’s not overhype him too early. To say that him and Colston would be a dangerous duo is a bit much at this point, Hankerson scares no one, right now. Good write up, great plan. If we don’t trade up my next option would be to trade down and grab an OL high
by Bryan Black on Jan 21, 2012 10:45 PM EST via Android app reply actions
One large flaw...
Zero chance tannehill is available at our 2nd round pick. More of a chance that RGIII is there at #6
I don't know about that.
Foles can rise up to be the #3 QB off the board, and it’s not like A&M played at a high level this year. Him falling to the second round wouldn’t be that surprising.
Skins rule
Can anyone explain to me
Todd McShays obsession with Osweiler
I think it's his size...
I mean, he dwarfs some of the Olineman on our team…
"Honey Badger Don't Care"
1) Redskins select OG David DeCastro in 1st round, the top offensive guard in the NFL draft. It’s even possible the skins could trade down to stay within the top 12 to still land DeCastro and add more picks. Sound familiar? Last year Shanahan gained much praise for doing exactly this and still landed a pro-bowl LB in Ryan Kerrigan. Here’s some insight into DeCastro from SB Nation;
YES! YES! A THOUSAND TIMES YES.
2) With one guard spot solid for years to come, the skins should look at addressing the QB position by selecting Ryan Tannehill with the next pick (2nd round). Considered the 3rd top QB in this draft class, and one the skins should not have to reach for. Also, while RG3 may have great upside – he also has BUST written all over him. Tannehill has the athleticism to make plays with his feet and can get the ball down field, perfect for a west coast style offense. Just read what one article says about Tannehill;
uh… not so much. I would prefer an OT
3) If they picked up another 2nd by trading down from #6, they should draft OC Peter Konz. If they trade down early and get DeCastro, They may have to reach up into the late 1st round or top 2nd round to nab Konz, but he’s worth it. Here are some comments on how dominate of a center this guy would be for the Redskins:
Sounds good to me!
Anyways for anyone who’s going to reply “0h but whut bout da KEW BEE?” My answer is and has been Matt Flynn for some time now.
Flynn is my third option
Unfortunately my 3rd option will be eliminated before we get to options 1 and 2. Flynn is not the answer, based on what I haven’t seen from him
by Bryan Black on Jan 22, 2012 7:01 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
I have a feeling
that Flynn will go to Miami. They just hired a GB coach, so it makes sense.
This would be a doomsday scenario
We need a franchise QB desperately. It’s priority number one.
I’m just not sold on Tannehill being a franchise QB.
I'm stuffing the ballot.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
by iH8dallas on Jan 22, 2012 8:53 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
If we ended up...
With DeCastro, Tannehill, Konz, Fleener, Broyles, and others from the draft, I’d be thrilled. My only possible tweak would be trading out Fleener for an OT that fell (i don’t know…Adams or Adcock maybe?). However, the strategy of revamping the Oline and drafting a decent QB prospect is the best possible for this franchise. Basically, for me it boils down to the following (seeing the trade scenarios for RGIII bandied about): Would you rather have these players or RGIII plus Fleener? I’ll take three starters and (gasp) O-line depth v. one QB who will get lit up with poor Oline play.
Lit up?
Compare immoble Rex’s sack numbers to the rest if the league. Then subtract half with a mobile QB like RGIII. Our line is middle of the road, not bottom of the barrel.
Redskins @RGIII - 2012
by Copious 1 on Jan 22, 2012 12:57 PM EST via Android app up reply actions 1 recs
Half?
I’ll give you that we’re middle of the road from an Oline perspective (years of terrible play have made me exaggerate the ineptitude of our line) but I don’t think the sack number would be halved. RGIII would avoid some (let’s say 1/3) but would run into some as well, trying to make a play. I honestly think he’d be sacked around the same number of times, with 10 or so coming via rookie mistakes. Let me state for the record that I’d LOVE RGIII in a Redskin uniform: I’d be just as happy, however, with the scenario above and all our picks next year.
Great point Copious
RG3 could make our line look a lot better. All Rex did was hold on to the ball too long, fail to step up in the pocket, and prove time and time again he was one of the least mobile QB in the league……………all the EXACT OPPOSITE of what Shanny likes.
Crying Lion
Look at the Rams Bradford...
Sam Bradford is considered an elite QB for the Rams. However, with the lack of OL or WR’s he’s primarily a tackling dummy. Look at the NFL playoff teams remaining and their represented QB’s. Alex Smith, Joe Flaco are not considered elite QB’s. Brady and Eli would be placed in that elite status. So, 50% of the top 4 have a solid defense and an average QB. Food for thought!
In a perfect world, Bradford would be my #2 option:
1. Luck
2. Bradford
3. RG3
4. Tannehill
5. Foles
But, I think we’ll end up with Tannehill and I’ll be extremely happy with that, actually
That doesn't hold true historically.
Check out the last 10 super bowl winners.
Redskins @RGIII - 2012
by Copious 1 on Jan 22, 2012 12:59 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I am not agaist DeCastro, and Konz however
I just think the impact of a QB is more than both these players. Why keep ignoring the most glaring need for a franchise QB? the Redskins had 3 starting QB’s in the last 3 years it is time to get that spot filled.
Having said that I like McNutt, BJ Cunningham, or Aj Jenkins in 3rd/4th rd.
Also, while RG3 may have great upside – he also has BUST written all over him.
Little extreme here???
Care to elaborate where and why he has bust written all over him?
Crying Lion
Thanks man
doing as good as expected right now. Trying to keep my mind off of it right now. Shed some tears last night, while watching some tribute videos. He will be deeply missed in my family.
Crying Lion
RG3
I just feel that a guy RG3 can as easily be an expensive bust, as he can become a dynamic player at QB. Heath Shuler was not savior of our franchise – but he had the same hype heading into the NFL draft. RG3 is a little smaller guy and a more explosive runner, which can also lead to injuries in the NFL. He’s used to the spread-style offense, rather then a pro-style. And, at times he seems to hold on to the ball too long, which has been an issue with past Redskin QB’s (J. Campbell, J. Beck, etc.). I just don’t believe in sacrificing the skins draft for one guy, period.
Well
with the new rookie wage scale, you can take out the expensive part. Shuler had no where near the hype of RG3, nor did he have the same skill set.
I don’t see how people keep saying RG3 is small. He is 6’2" 220. Is Aaron Rogers small too? Same size as RG3 and he does fine. You can use the Spread arguement, and that may be it. Actually, more NFL QB’s than not are now coming from a spread system(Can Newton ring a bell). What people forget about the spread is that it requires many pre and post snap reads. Basically, you can’t be a dummy to run a good spread offense.
Crying Lion
He will be a bust
RG3 has a small frame, i don’t care how much Baylor claims he weights or how tall they say. He has a small frame even if he is 6’2’’ 220lbs. His speed from 0-20mph is vastly overrated. He holds the ball down by his knee when he is running around. He takes too much punishment. He throws off his back foot when he is scrambling around. He has only played against the worst defenses in the NCAA. He plays in a conference that is notorious for inflated QB numbers and busts. He plays against corners where a 5 yard cushion is considered tight coverage. He doesn’t take snaps from center. He plays in a spread offense. He pulls things off in college that inflate his value that he wouldn’t be able to pull off in the NFL. I think that about covers it.
4-0 in the Divisional Round of the playoffs
by Jeff Bernard on Jan 22, 2012 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
Well done.
i think this only serves to further solidify my opinion that we should not trade up for him. He is far from a sure thing.
So one guys come on and spouts off at the mouth
and you believe him over the professional scouts, GM’s and coaches who are salivating over him.
hahahaha.
Crying Lion
I believe Jeff's opinion of RG3 is just as valid as yours, Tiller
We’ll see what all the coaches and GMs have to say after they have watched all his game film and evaluated him during interviews and at the combine
Seriously?
I beg of you. Find me one, any, opinion out there that echos his thoughts……….anything. I have never heard anything even remotely close to him holding the ball down by his knees when he is running around, saying his speed is overrated(how can you overrate a 4.4-4.5), and throwing off his back foot when scrambling. If he did these things a few times, I can see it, but this guy makes it out like it’s habbit.
In my book, anyone who is 6’2" 220, is not small framed by any means.
Sure, the kid doesn’t play in the ACC, where he faces Alabama and LSU, but the Big 12 isn’t the Sun Belt Conference either. Look at the Pac10 defense. They are no better. And most likely, next years top QB is coming from there.
Let’s try looking at things this way. What would baylor be without RG3?
Crying Lion
I don't have an extensive knowledge of all of the expert opinions on RG3
But are you suggesting that Jeff is lying or is mistaken on his evaluation of RG3?
If you want the answer to the question you asked me
send me an email. I’ll be happy to respond to you there.
Crying Lion
Remember when he got knocked out of that Texas Tech game this year...
Baylor did just fine….his replacement totally Matt Flynn’d him haha
"Honey Badger Don't Care"
nah man
but the fact that one guy can see all of this kind of says something about the amount of hype surrounding this kid.
I think you should realize that it has been my opinion since day 1 that we should not trade up. It is simply difficult to find criticism of either Luck or Griffin through all the hype (and yes, it is a LOT of hype, and scouts/GMs aren’t immune to it) and to see someone who realizes he is far from a sure thing is refreshing, particularly after all the “he’s as close to a sure thing as you can get” comments.
When a guy come on
and doubts a man who is 6’2" 220lbs, with world class speed, who can lanch a football over 70 yards in the air, and who is deadly accurate, plays with poise, intelligence, is smart, humble……….oh, and just happens to be the best football player in college football, saying he will be a bust, doesn’t it make you question things a bit? Especially since I can’t find a scouting report or game tape that shows any of this(I did watch 8 live games of Griffins this year, and still have 4 on the DVR).
Crying Lion
It's called Shuler Syndrome.
The patient shows a severe disdain for first round QBs, afraid of them busting.
To avoid this they advocate strongly to trade back, as a top five QB will ruin their life.
It’s a disease.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
by iH8dallas on Jan 22, 2012 9:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I like Foles, no doubt.
But given the choice I’d rather trade up for Griffin because he’s awesome.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
by iH8dallas on Jan 22, 2012 9:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Let's take a look at this for a second.
Because a lot of it is had to dispute.
Size – 6’2" 220 pounds is 2 inches taller but only 5 pounds heavier than Michael Vick. He, like Vick, is an athletic running QB and, like Vick, will take a lot of punishment as a result. Given his similar frame, it is safe to say that Griffin and Vick are about equal in terms of injury risk.
Speed – Debatable. I’m not sure whether he means Griffin’s top speed or acceleration, but I don’t really care.
Ball by the knee – I just went back and watched a highlight reel for RG3. When he runs it is not quite as low as his knee but it is swinging down at his thigh about 50% of the time.
Throws off his back foot while scrambling – I haven’t payed enough attention to know if this is true or not. Debatable.
Defensive strength – Here are the rankings for the Defenses he played this season:
TCU: 32
Stephen F Austin – Unranked
Rice – 111
Kansas St. – 74
Iowa st – 99
Texas A&M – 66
Oklahoma State – 107
Missouri – 61
Kansas – 120
Oklahoma – 62
Texas Tech – 115
Texas – 14
Wasington – 94
So they played just 2 teams in the top FIFTY in Defense, and several below 90. Sounds like he played a bunch of weak Defenses to me.
Conference notorious for inflated QB numbers, busts – Well, the defensive weakness of the teams in the conference would explain the inflated numbers. I’ll leave the research on the QB bust history to someone else.
5 yard cushion – subjective, I guess.
He doesn’t take snaps from under center – Well, he doesn’t.
Spread offense – yep.
Things he pulls off in college that couldn’t be done in the NFL – I think this applies to every college prospect. some of the things I’ve seen him do look like that Marshawn Lynch beast mode run against the Saints in the playoffs last season. He will not be able to do that nearly as easily in the pros.
so really out of all of the problems he listed, the only disputable ones are his speed, whether he throws off his back foot, and the history of QB busts – 1 of those because it is purely subjective and 2 of them because I am too lazy to look them up.
by TheDeepBall on Jan 22, 2012 10:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
Facts are facts. His success in the NFL can be debated but the facts cannot.
4-0 in the Divisional Round of the playoffs
by Jeff Bernard on Jan 22, 2012 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
good rebuttal
6-0 in the Divisional Round and Conference Championships
by Jeff Bernard on Jan 23, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
The problem with most trying to evaluate from a 3 min highlight tape
You have to see how a player handles certain situations, and you cant do that by watching higlight tape on youtube. you have to see flow of the game and how he reacts to 3rd and long, or when he decides to take off and run. i would suggest people go gack and watch the whole game against OU this year and see plays he made in the pocket with pinpoint throws but made plays with his legs to set up the game winning touchdown.
As far as people talking about his size he is 6’2" 220lb, just as a comparison Aaron Rodgers was 6’2" 224lbs coming out of college i find that nitpicking. and Finally Baylor was not a good team this is the first time in school history that they won 10 games, but i did not hear those same critizisms about a Sam Bradford but his body of work speaks for themself
by Highspeed30 on Jan 22, 2012 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
Aaron Rodgers is not a running QB.
He doesn’t take the punishment Griffin will take.
by TheDeepBall on Jan 23, 2012 12:34 AM EST up reply actions
Griffin is not a running QB
a lot of his runs @ Baylor was designed running plays for him, however RG3 does not look to run every chance he get. He will scramble and extend a play while keeping his eyes down field. I can see you only seen espn highlights of Griffin III to think he is a running QB like Vick
That's actually wrong
he is a running QB. Baylor employs the zone read. Not all spread teams run this, but Baylor certainly did. Now, will he do that in the Pros…………………….absoultely not, but I’m sure he’ll be getting his fair share of yards on the ground.
Crying Lion
yeah because professional scouts and GMs are always correct
4-0 in the Divisional Round of the playoffs
by Jeff Bernard on Jan 22, 2012 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
i don't have a scouting record to compare to so that is an opinion not fact
You on the other hand will be haunted by the ghost of Landry Jones for the rest of your time on this earth.
6-0 in the Divisional Round and Conference Championships
by Jeff Bernard on Jan 23, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
why because i really do have a record or because Landry Jones really doesn't suck?
6-0 in the Divisional Round and Conference Championships
by Jeff Bernard on Jan 23, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
Tiller
I respect your football intelligence..
But it is really quiet obnoxious the way you bash others opinions and insist yours are the only valid ones.
Ok, fair enough
just one question: Have you ever seen, heard or been told of a scouting report like the one Bernard gives above?
Crying Lion
I would be happy with this.....
Doesn’t mean I am against trading up for RG3 if a somewhat reasonable deal unfolds.
I only watched Tannehill once and Foles not at all, but from what I have been able to glean from all the comments (and almost no research whatsoever) I think I would prefer Foles to Tannehill….and possibly Weeden over the both of them, even if that means we have got to get another future QB prospect in the fold relatively soon.
"Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say."-Robert Hunter
I just think you can find good lineman that fit Shanny's Zone blocking system in the later rounds
They prefer more athletic lineman that can run, and that fit the Zone system and you can find a lot of them in later rounds. I thought the line looked a lot better then it has in previous years and with a couple pieces it can be a solid unit. Another year of development for Smith, Hurt, and Polumbus give the line some depth. add a starter in FA like Nicks or Grubbs pick a center or versatile lineman in later rd and the unit will be fine IMO
by Highspeed30 on Jan 22, 2012 11:23 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I love offensive linemen as much as anyone.
However, those guys are so much more plentiful than quarterbacks.
It would be wonderful for us to have another version of the Hogs, building a brick wall in front of (insert QB), giving them 10 seconds to find an open receiver.
Free agency and cap restrictions have made this difficult. So grabbing a QB that can perform in a number of situations, good or bad, is essential for NFL success.
The lines of Baltimore and SF are great, but those guys will hit the open market one day and go where the money takes them…QBs not so much.
So signing Griffin in the long term would be much wiser than grabbing a stud guard, that if the time comes we would have to pay a huge contract to.
Just saying, you have to go QB.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
by iH8dallas on Jan 22, 2012 11:35 AM EST via mobile reply actions 2 recs
You do, but let's have an example.
If you’re the Saints and you can only pay one, Brees or Nicks, who do you pay?
It’s a no-brainer.
The Saints aren’t that different without Nicks. Without Brees, well, who knows?
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
by iH8dallas on Jan 22, 2012 2:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Again, you are assuming
that whatever QB we get will be as good as Brees. Also, a QB is paid a lot more than a lineman, so it isn’t a 1 for 1 thing.
Who is more important to a team?
A good QB or a good guard?
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
by iH8dallas on Jan 22, 2012 3:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Um
try a good QB vs. 2 good guards.
And honestly, if I had to choose between Joe Flacco or Marshall Yanda + Ben Grubbs I would take the latter 100 times out of 100.
That's two players compared to one.
Would you take a guard or QB if you had to choose?
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
by iH8dallas on Jan 22, 2012 6:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Your premise was about the money, no?
The lines of Baltimore and SF are great, but those guys will hit the open market one day and go where the money takes them…QBs not so much.
So signing Griffin in the long term would be much wiser than grabbing a stud guard, that if the time comes we would have to pay a huge contract to.
The problem is, QBs make a lot more than Guards do. So the money from one huge contract for a QB can pay for more than one guard. Between a single Guard and a single QB I would take a QB, but in practice we’re talking about a SINGLE QB vs. a medley of lesser payed players. Your question is disproportionate. Try again.
I'm not sure about the money, but with the rookie cap
I’m willing to bet Nicks or Grubbs will make more money next year than the #2 overall pick.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
by iH8dallas on Jan 22, 2012 7:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You just asked me
about which of two impending FAs I would rather sign if I could only pick one. I pointed out the problems with your question. We are not talking about rookies here. We are talking about which we would rather sign when their contracts are up down the road.
I asked you about Brees and Nicks,
And you still haven’t answered.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
by iH8dallas on Jan 22, 2012 8:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Because the question
is completely disproportionate to your premise.
Brees vs Nicks straight up (hugely disproportionate in terms of money, by the way)? I’ll take Brees. Brees vs. Nicks and Jahri Evans? I’ll take the Guards, please.
You don’t have to pay huge contracts to QBs?
Not like before the rookie wage scale was in place
Crying Lion
By then you know what you have. Pay him or let gin walk.
Redskins @RGIII - 2012
by Copious 1 on Jan 22, 2012 6:20 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Why are we talking about that
it could be 5 years down the road. We should be talking about things relavent to our team, and a rookie is relavent to our team.
Crying Lion
Believe me
I would love 4 additional starters too. But I do realize if we are to get to the next level, we need that QB. If we have to give something up for that, so be it. It would roughly equate to 3 higher draft picks, and yes, that sucks, but if not now, when? Are we going to stink again next year, and have a top 5 pick? I sure as heck don’t plan on it. I’m hoping on 8-8 or better. I want my guy now so we can make it over that hump. Without him, I fear we don’t make it there.
If Cleveland signs Flynn in FA, I’m content to sit, and try to draft him. If Cleveland doesn’t sign a QB, then I consider them a threat, and I move up for a QB.
Crying Lion
I would like to take a moment to point out
both of these championship games have been primarily D/ST battles.
One Elite QB has already prevailed
and this is his 5th time! He didn’t even play a good game, if that tells you anything, but without him, they would never be where they are. The game your watching now is a mud fest, being played in a monsoon.
Crying Lion
I think I've already shown you the defensive stats for Brady's first 3 trips.
And neither QB had much to do with which team won that game. Don’t even try to tell me that Brady won that game for them. If anything they won in spite of his play today.
As for getting there, I’d wager the Ravens have been winning in spite of Flacco’s crappy play all season.
The game right now features two #1 overall QBs...
Just saying.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
by iH8dallas on Jan 22, 2012 8:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
But he's a #1....you HAVE to get one to win
And they all eventually end up winning, you just have to give them time…haha
In fairness
the guy has had 3 HC’s in 6 years. That’s more offensive changes than even Jason campbell saw.
Crying Lion
13 third down attempts and no conversions indications a major problem in his
QB play. I don’t know how he has done this or previous seasons.
by Jefferson1935 on Jan 23, 2012 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not trying to defend the guy
he’s average in this league at best. He did however take a big step this year under Harbaugh.
Crying Lion
We'll just have to agree to disagree.
If you were the GM of an NFL team, you would have a great offensive line and a bumbling supertard like Grossman for a QB.
I would take a different approach. Different strokes for different folks.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
by iH8dallas on Jan 22, 2012 9:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I guess
But I wouldn’t have a supertard at QB unless you consider Flynn to be one.
by TheDeepBall on Jan 22, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
Deep
I respect your approach, and like I said here, and in another thread, I like that we have two sides, and that each promotes their approach, and sticks by their beliefs.
We don’t all agree, for sure, but at least you are taking a stance, and sticking by that stance.
Crying Lion
If we can't secure Luck or Griffin, I'm all for trading back
But I wouldn’t want to take a Guard with any first round pick especially not a top 20… The principal of a zone blocking scheme is that you don’t need to have the most talented players to run it, we can get by with what we have got at the moment. Although the interior needs an upgrade and should be addressed in this draft, compared to our other needs we wouldn’t get much value out of the pick.
If we fell to the 12th overall, I’d prefer Pot-head number 3 Dre Kirkpatrick, or Alshon Jeffery
Beck to the future!
by The Shanaplan on Jan 22, 2012 11:53 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Alshon Jeffery? A Spurrier wide receiver?
In the words of Cris Carter…..come on, man.
Spurrier wasn’t very successful with him this year.
It wasn’t Spurrior, it was the QB situation, and also loosing Marcus Lattimore for the year, that hurt Jeffery.
Crying Lion
what...
you don’t need to have the most talented players to run it
I have heard this argument before, recently, and am having a hard time understanding this logic. Since OL is so important (which I agree with) and since we need to improve our OL, why would you not settle on the most talented.
Of course, I have promoted improving our OL from FA, but that is just me…
you don’t need to have the most talented players to run it
I think a better phrase would be, you need a different type of linemen to run it. Talent is the wrong word to use in this phrase. The ZBS linemen are every bit as talented as your power blockers. They are usually smaller, quicker and more technically sound, so if anything, they may be more talented than your power blocking linemen.
Crying Lion
Agreed on the ZBS guys.
You tend to find them later in the draft because “you can’t teach size”.
I worry that, with the increased fitness and agility of these monsters nowadays, that smaller linemen aren’t quite as effective as they were for Shanny ten years ago. Plus, I wonder how much more advantageous the ZBS was at altitude in Denver, compared to elsewhere.
StephenBeagrie on Twitter and Facebook.
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by Stephen Beagrie on Jan 22, 2012 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't touch either of these guys in the first round.
Living in Charleston SC, I have watched every USC game Jeffery has ever played in. Although he does have some impressive tools (size, good hands) he has average speed at best. I think he will have big problems getting separation in the league. His blocking is adequate, unless he is on the opposite side of the field from the ball in which case it is non existent. Someone will like his size and vert at the combine and he may run in the 4.6s but his game speed is alot slower. We will never draft Kirkpatrick. Good size and ball skills. Not the shut down corner he is made out to be. Has benefited from a supreme pass rush his entire career. I think Mayock has him as the 5th or 6th best corner prospect. Not to mention the drug bust and obviously piss poor decision making ability
How can you say RG3 might be a bust then say Tannehill will not
RG3 has years playing QB and it shows. Tannehill has only 20 starts at QB so even if you add his time as a back up he doesnt have nearly enough time as a QB to be even considered a top 40 pick. the only reason scout are talking about Tannehill is because of his ability to run. Tannehill is only in the top 40 because Cam Newton has shown how well a running QB can greatly impact a team but the difference is that Cam can also throw the ball like nobodies business.
“When he finds open receivers, Tannehill gets rid of the ball quickly and is usually on target.”
Tannehill’s own report states he is usually on target. I say Foles is a better option for a QB.
I like the OL pick at #6 but I believe our offense needs more than just one OG to get better. I would rather concentrate on getting more weapons for a new QB to throw too because no matter what happens i cant see Grossman starting again and if he does its just so a rookie can watch what not to do lol
I say our OL was alright last season and maybe a few FA and a couple drafted OL could go a long way.
I guess I am not shocked to see a post such as this...
I mean, there have been posts recently about Flynn going to Miami, and the majority of people blogging on these posts agree that the Skins are trading up.
So to balance out the deisre of the other half, we have a post such as this. Is this the route the FO will take? I have no idea. All I know is, this is going to be a great offseason…
Still. What happens if Tannenhill is gone?
I’ve let up on the RG3 throttle a bit but if Tannenhill is slated to be the third QB taken then there is a very good chance he will be taken in the first round… I just don’t see a scenario at the moment where he will slip that far. Yeah, it’s still early but Foles is not going to be selected after Luck and Griffin. We still need a QB coming out of this draft who can be thrown right into the fire starting next season. I’m fine with selecting him in the 2nd or 3rd rounds.. just as long we can him and if he is the right one. BUT, who will it be? Even if we acquire a QB in free agency we will still draft one in the draft. There is just no way Shannahan gets away with not drafting a quarterback this year.
This offseason for us is going to be one hell of a ride.
Look
To the OP, DeCastro is a hell of a interior linemen. He is smart, fundementally sound, and tough. I would love to have him on our team. Unfortunately, now is not the time for us to be drafting a guard in the first round. We need QB, WR, and maybe even a RT before we need a G.
This would be a great pick if we already had a young QB going into his 2nd year, and a stud WR on the outside for him to throw to.
Other point is, Free Agency is most likely to have 2 very good guards we could sign. I would much perfer to go the free agency route, and get some young skill guys via the draft.
Watch Grubbs from the Ravens today, if you want to see a good ZBS guard we could end up having in FA.
Crying Lion
I have been watching Grubbs...
what a great game by him. Any breakdown by the Ravens OL have come from someone else (surprising Yanda has given up a few, Oher some…)
He may end up being the guard we go after…
Let's get him, I want a playoff berth for the Skins next year.
Sick of seeing my roommates rooting for the Giants and Patriots every postseason.
and for anyone who points out the low running #'s...
that is due to N.E. concerted effort to NOT let Rice win it, but make Flacco win it for BMore (who happens to be having a solid game himself).
An interior lineman at 6 huh?
I’m not even sure DeCastro is a Shanahan type of guard. Interior line is definitely a need, but Shanahan’s made a business of drafting contributing offensive lineman in the middle and later rounds. If we can’t land a shutdown corner (Kirkpatrick is actually starting to fall because of his recent legal issues), I’d still prefer trading back.
If Miami signs Flynn and Seattle bypasses Tannehill, hopefully he’ll be there. I’m also in the club of stealing Weeden in the 3rd round, if he lasts that long.
OC
Getting an OLinemen high sounds good to me. Would picking up a Free Agent OC like Chris Myers from Houston help with the center spot and then move Mongomery to OG. This way we could draft for skill positions and still get OL depth.
@RiggsSkins on the ole Twitter
Myers could help...................although he's a bit older
I believe we need upgraded at C. The better idea if Myers was signed, would be to also sign Grubbs or Nicks, and have Monty backing up both G and C. I think if we put our avaliable resources in FA towards two solid O-Linemen, and possible a WR, we could actually go into the draft, and really focus on the top needs – QB, maybe another top flight WR, RT.
i’m not 100% for a Myers signing, but i’m not against it either. His signing, plus a Nicks/Grubbs signing, could really allow us to move up for RG3 or Luck, as our line would be in very good shape, and it would have taken zero draft picks to have done so. The only true hole would be at RT, and with a group including TW, Nicks/Grubbs, Myers, and Chester, I feel very confident we could plug Willie Smith in at RT, and he would do just fine. IMO, at least on paper, that would be a VERY solid line. I think most would agree, and be very pleased.
Crying Lion
Love The Idea To Trade Back And Take DeCastro
but didn’t like too much of the rest. Why take Konz in the 2nd round when we he’s not even a good fit for Shanahan’s ZBS AND we need playmakers at WR BADLY? Also why WASTE a 3rd round pick on Coby Fleener, why not take Michael Egnew if we even take a TE that high (which we don’t even necessarily need to do at this point since Cooley is healthy now and we STILL have Logan Paulsen)? Why go after Colston in Free Agency? That guy would be a #2 WR anywhere other than New Orleans and we already have enough #2 WRs on the roster. Also, Tannehill has more bust potential than RGIII, he’s just not at all impressive and add the fact that he injured his foot working out prior to the Senior Bowl and you’re left wondering why he should even be considered. I’m all for trading down and taking DeCastro, but after that we should take Nick Foles (QB, Arizona) in 2nd rd, Markell Martin (Safety Oklahoma St.) 3rd rd, Michael Egnew (TE, Mizzou) with extra 3rd rd pick from the trade back, Brian Quick (WR, Appalachian St.) 4th rd, Juron Criner (WR, Arizona) 4th rd (from Raiders), Tank Carder (ILB, TCU) 5th rd, and then the best players on the board that are left with our 7th rd pick.
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