Matt Flynn Will Not be a Redskin
by Tiller56 on Jan 21, 2012 8:11 AM EST
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Sorry for the run-on paragraph.
My computer is not configured properly since it crashed.
Crying Lion
If you edit and go to the html view
you can force line breaks using < p > and < / p >, with no spaces
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 21, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
Why not
?
Author: Hogs Haven
Founder: The Burgundy Warpath
Follow @BurgundyWarpath
Follow @rkadkins
by Ronnie Adkins on Jan 23, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
Haha...
I didn’t add a space so it registered..
Why not
< br >
With no spaces?
Author: Hogs Haven
Founder: The Burgundy Warpath
Follow @BurgundyWarpath
Follow @rkadkins
by Ronnie Adkins on Jan 23, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
heh
that works better…sorry
my browser at work is fubar so I do a lot of work using < p > instead of < br >, cheers
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 25, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
I Agree we will not Get Flynn
At the same time I do believe that the one who make those decisions will probably trade down like last year to get more selections we only had six from last year came out with twelve, but we also have other needs which can be satisfied via free agency & the draft. We could use the free agency to get a quarter-back to start for a period, sign two starting guards, then use the draft to take care of the center, tackle, future starting quarter-back, his back-up, then address the wide (6’4"240lbs or better) receivers both draft & free agency, draft 2 6’5" 250lbs or larger tight-ends that can catch, block & run good patterns & make plays, another 6’240lb or better running back with some speed, quick feet, cut-back ability that makes plays, draft a large quick-footed play-making inside linebacker, another huge space-eating strong Nose-tackle, that collapses the pocket and gets to the quarter-back along with another huge speedy end beside him that does the same. We could also draft (2) 6’1’-6’4"210lb corner backs along with a free & strong safety that are that size or larger all of whom are ball hawks and big-time play-makers all done via the free agency & the draft. It can be done an since there are so many sleepers with almost 20 million under the salary cap the time to get them is now. We have about eight picks this year we can turn that into 12-16 more this year and take care of all our needs. But, we have to do it wisely.
Agree
I think Flynn follow Philbin to Miami. Flynn may not be the best player for them, but if you want to adequately evaluate the RBs, WRs, TEs and such on offense, having a QB who already understands the plays, where to go with the ball etc. etc. helps in that evaluation process.
What's interesting to me is Philbin - stay with me on this....
Philbin has been the OC at Gren Bay since before Flyyn got there (2007 vs 2008). BEing the well run team they are, they drafted an additional quarterback in Flynn when they really didn’t need him right then. Over the years they’ve developed Flynn into what we saw the past two years (and two games). Flynn has gotten plenty of work in the preseasons and even first team reps for entire weeks when Rogers was down, or not going to play.
So what if Miami doesn’t pursue him right out of the box when free agency hits? What does that say about Philbin’s opinion of Flynn? I think the OC of Green Bay who is so familiar with this guy becoming the head coach of a quarterback needy team really makes it so that Flynn is almost beholden to go to Miami. Who wouldn’t want to after friggin’ Green Bay’s winters?
Unless Oakland signs him.
Wait…that doesn’t make any sense…they can’t give up any picks for him.
So, Tiller the secret spiller...Who are we signing?
I say Griff-Griff!
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
by iH8dallas on Jan 21, 2012 8:37 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Anyone but Flynn
You know I’m all for the trade-up(at whatever cost). The rams will be more than happy to take our 6th pick, 2nd rounder, and a 1st and 3rd next year for the 2nd pick. Fat ass Holmgren isn’t offering that just to move up two spots. If anything, he’ll move back before moving up. That guy is cheaper than hell.
Even if the Browns were offering a package to move up two freaking spots, they would make it less that we would. No way do they give up both of their 1st’s this year just to move up two freakin spots. Holmgren is a much smarter GM than that, and I’m sure he realizes he needs much more on his team, than just one player. They have no RB, no WR’s, some spotty play at LB, and weak safeties. Their two 1st’s, second, and third can go a long way in fixing this.
If we move up with the Rams, that could almost guarentee Blackmon to the Browns(I definitly see the Vikes taking Kalil). If for some reason Kalil fell to Cleveland, then they could be in the best position to trade back, and get another 2nd. They grab the best WR in the draft at #4, then could look interior linemen, RB or LB with that later 1st. Hell, Holmgren could even look QB in the 2nd or 3rd if he wanted(maybe a guy like Foles, Tannehill or Weeden).
Point is, RG3 is not going to be sitting there at #4. If a team wants him, they will have to move up, or work out a draft day trade(similar to the Eli-Rivers trade) to get him. Holmgren is the the guy who will mortgage picks to move up two spots. Just not happening. He value picks more than any guy I know. He’s also one of the smartest personell guys in the league. If anything, he’ll want more picks, not less. He has a lot of holes on his team(more than we do).
Crying Lion
I don't want Manning, because that's just delaying the inevitable.
Flynn…meh.
Did you read the article on the Sportsbog? Apparently a high level Redskins official was blabbing at a lunch, and said the Skins already picked a QB.
My money says they have a trade in place with the Rams.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
by iH8dallas on Jan 21, 2012 9:22 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
It would surprise me, that with all the new moves in St Louis
if we had something in place already, but who knows, maybe it could be true.
I am however fairly confident, we will be making a move up for either Luck or Griffin. I know it’s unlikely, but it’s still possible, the Colts fall in love with RG3, and take him #1 overall.
Either way, I do see a trade up with the Rams. We will offer more that the Browns(and that’s if they even bother trying to move up, which I don’t think they will do). They would offer the two 1st this year, and maybe a 2nd or 3rd in 2013. We would offer 1st and 2nd this year, and the 1st, and likely 3rd next year. One of our 4th’s could be dangled too.
All I know is Mike Holmgren is not selling the farm to move 2 spots, for one player. Bank on that.
Crying Lion
I watched the interview yesterday with Irsay...
He mentioned Griffin a few times…it got me thinking he might be willing to do a three way trade, that could put us at #1 for Luck, them at #2 for Griffin, and St. Louis moving to #6. St. Louis would make out handsomely by acquiring picks from Washington and Indy…Indy could still get a QB but would also get some picks…and the Skins could get the guy that we all really want
"Honey Badger Don't Care"
yea, might be unrealistic...
but I can dream. I’m really hoping that Foles puts on a show today and impresses our coaching staff
"Honey Badger Don't Care"
we are desperate for a QB as well
McNabb was signed outta desparation,thinking he could give us a few decent years.He was terrible,worse than dr.REX and mr.HYDE.Tillers right Flynn will not come here,hes headed to the dolphins.Where do we go from here?Who would fit and do decent here?If Manning passes his tough phisicals and is HEALTHY and released,id take a hard look at signing him.I doubt we are gonna be able to land RGIII,so plan B is gonna be in play.Trade down and gather more picks even a 1st next year for trade up leverage.Tannehill,Foles,Weeden,and im sure theres a few others that we are looking at,but none of them are starters right now.Barkley and Jones staying in school hurt our chances at landing the franchise QB.Keep moving forward Shanahan we will get there.
I don't want Manning either
No doubt he’d help us win, but it wouldn’t last long. I’d rather us make the move up, while we are still considered to be rebuilding. It makes sense to do it now.
Two solid free agent signings, and retaining our own guys(davis, landry and fletch), in addition to moving up for Luck or Griffin(whoever is there at two), will put us in contention for at least a decade.
Crying Lion
Well...
we will not see Matt Flynn as the future QB of the Washington Redskins. He doesn’t fit the mold. Flynn is totally unproven, and even being so, will cost more than any other QB in free agency.
Totally unproven? Like Tannehill, RGIII, Luck, Foles or any other college QB. Say what you will about their skill set in college or potential…these guys are just as “unproven” as Flynn. At least Flynn has a couple of games in the NFL under his belt as well as several years in an NFL system which is a hell of a lot more than these college hot shots have.
Yes, TOTALLY unproven
Totally unproven? Like Tannehill, RGIII, Luck, Foles or any other college QB. Say what you will about their skill set in college or potential…these guys are just as "unproven" as Flynn
Everyone knows when selecting a rookie QB, you go by college resume, and certain attributes that prospect has. Obviously their are unproven in the NFL.
Both RG3 and Luck are more proven, even though they have never played in an NFL game, that Matt Flynn. There is reason Matt Flynn was a 7th round draft pick. Trust me!
Crying Lion
And cue the "But Tom Brady was a 6th round pick......" line
by Bryan Black on Jan 21, 2012 10:25 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
and everyone knows when signing a free agent you put little stock in their college stats
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
If Rodgers had gone down early
and Flynn had 12-15 starts this year then I think the college resume would seldom be scrutinized. 2 starts? Shit, I’m interviewing past neighbors and high school teachers along with the college resume. 2 starts is risky business
by Bryan Black on Jan 21, 2012 10:55 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Flynn?
He will cost more than any of those other unproven QB’s,way more!Its a gamble Dudley,Flynn maybe the next top tier QB,but so could Foles for that matter.If im gonna throw money at a QB id be looking at Manning,i think he has proved he can play QB.I know Tiller that HEALTHY he only has a few years,but Foles or some other QB we draft could learn ALOT in a short amount of time.Redzone turnovers and lack of redzone points is one of the reason we missed the playoffs.Manning could throw with his left hand and do a better job.
I'm not for Manning at all
but I do see your point with him being a Mentor to a guy like Foles. I guess I wouldn’t totally rule it out, however it would be my amongst my top choices.
My feeling is, that if Manning is not a Colt next year, he’s not in the NFL at all. You don’t just release a guy like Peyton Manning, if he checks out healthy.
Crying Lion
I think that is normally the case for an elite QB....
It’s definitely not the norm for the team with one of the greatest QB’s of all time to be picking number one overall, with an opportunity to pick up the most highly touted QB since the afore mentioned.
I’m not really big into bringing Peyton in for a year or two either, but if we got him for a modest contract, I wouldn’t be up in arms if he was brought in to mentor a draft pick.
"Honey Badger Don't Care"
I think, the only way Manning come here...
if we can’t trade up.
BUT I FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT DISCUSSIONS HAVE ALREADY TAKEN PLACE, BEHIND THE SCENES OF COURSE. EITHER RG3 OR (CROSS OUR FINGERS) ANDREW LUCK!!
I would think that Manning's health is going to be known if and when he is released...
IF he is healthy, a team will jump on him prior to the draft, so we probably won’t have the option of Manning being a back up plan
"Honey Badger Don't Care"
That roster bonus is coming at a very convenient time
for both parties…..just goes to show how smart these guys are (except that they gave him the contract with a broken neck)
"Honey Badger Don't Care"
The big date for insight on Manning is mid March. No point in getting up tight before then.
The neurosurgery that fused one level of Manning’s vertebrae can actually strengthen the neck. The nerve roots are the problem since they can have effects in the hand, arm, and shoulder. I had surgery more extensive than Manning had on 9/21/11 and my right index finger which I use on the mouse is still jumpy. Yet the surgery was effective on the left hand, arm, and shoulder. The doctors don’t know with precision what the outcome will be. It doesn’t even need to be perfect for Manning to be an elite QB.
by Jefferson1935 on Jan 21, 2012 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
Unless they both agree to move that roster bonus back
the big date is the week before free agency opens
Crying Lion
If Manning
had any desire to or acumen for mentoring another QB, Indy would not be picking 1st in this year’s draft…!!!
Flynn is not getting 10 million dollars a year
Care to place another one of your world famous “guarantees” on that?
4-0 in the Divisional Round of the playoffs
I don't see him getting much less....
Unless he gets some unGodly signing bonus
"Honey Badger Don't Care"
Now it only takes one idiot GM to prove me wrong but...
I have faith that GMs have learned from the relatively recent signings of Cassell and Kolb.
4-0 in the Divisional Round of the playoffs
by Jeff Bernard on Jan 21, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
There wasn't much of an option because of the competition to get their services...
it’s all about supply and demand. If Miami, Cleveland and Washington all make phone calls to the agent, the price goes up every single time the phone rings. I think it all depends on if the franchise thinks they can win the division if they get that one piece…We’re getting very close, a good free agent signing at QB and our draft could really put us in contention. Of course, I don’t think “that” QB exists in free agency for us this year…
"Honey Badger Don't Care"
I can bank on that?
Should i do my banking at the same bank that guaranteed Landry Jones was coming out this year? Or that Penn State wasn’t hiring O’Brien?
4-0 in the Divisional Round of the playoffs
by Jeff Bernard on Jan 21, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
Never guaranteed Jones was coming our
It was my strong feeling that he would. I did guarantee that he would be a first rounder if he came out. Maybe that’s where your thinking was.
As for O’Brien – I was wrong. What can I say. My source, whom I trust very well was wrong too. Oh well.
Crying Lion
oh, my bad. must have been the other tiller56
If you really believe this is true(and by the way, it was ONE service that said this)
I’ll make a bet with you. You name whatever you like. I will put anything you agree on, that Jones enters in 2012.
Crying Lion
by Tiller56
4-0 in the Divisional Round of the playoffs
by Jeff Bernard on Jan 21, 2012 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
It seems to me like this was a bet to you personally
which it appears now you were dumb not to take…………..just think, you could be having a bottle of Patron on me, just like Parks did.
Crying Lion
yeah i should have taken the bet but i thought he would come out too haha
4-0 in the Divisional Round of the playoffs
by Jeff Bernard on Jan 21, 2012 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
no worries man
I though he was coming out, especially when Barkley said he was staying for his senior year. I’m always wrong, but I still like to make bets.
Crying Lion
it's going to be in that neighborhood
though i’m sure the majority of it will be backloaded. while maybe the other contracts should be a cause for concern, but it really won’t be. Sidney Rice and Holmes were huge busts, as are nearly every major receiving signing, yet that won’t stop teams giving Bowe, D. Jackson, and V. Jackson mega contracts.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
This may shock you but Steve doesn't actually sign FAs
He can say what he THINKS or ASSUMES or GUESSES the salary will be but he doesn’t have any idea what an actual GM will offer Flynn and what Flynn will receive.
4-0 in the Divisional Round of the playoffs
by Jeff Bernard on Jan 21, 2012 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
Yes but the wideouts are a completely different situation
I am referring to QBs being signed with limited playing time. I think the Kolb deal will drive down the price for Flynn. There are only a handful of teams that are in the market for QB this offseason. Two of those teams for sure are taking Luck and RG3 so now we are really left with Miami and Washington. I just don’t see either one of those teams going buck wild to sign Flynn. I think he will get more than he “deserves” but i can see teams keeping the salary down through incentives and backloading the money.
4-0 in the Divisional Round of the playoffs
by Jeff Bernard on Jan 21, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
you may be right...
especially if Washington does not enter contract negotiations, then Miami gets a bargain. It is the best location for Flynn, running a system he is familiar with, with talented Bush and Marshall to implement…
well then it must be true!
4-0 in the Divisional Round of the playoffs
by Jeff Bernard on Jan 21, 2012 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
haha no i said between $9-11 million (I guessed $10.75 per year)
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
Did you happen to catch Steve's breakdown on both he and grubbs
in case you didn’t take the time to read it, here it is: http://www.hogshaven.com/2012/1/19/2718893/at-what-cost-a-breakdown-of-what-potential-free-agents-ben-grubbs-and
Steve and I may disagree on players, but he is usually pretty good with cap numbers and contracts.
Crying Lion
Steve Shoup did an analysis on Flynn's likely salary
and I think he had it less than 10 million. Complicated due to bonuses and guarantees and increasing out years, but I think I just guessed that it was something like 8+/year. I’m with Tiller on Flynn – makes no sense to throw a lot of money at him. Not just the money – what worries me is that if we get Flynn, we don’t get anybody else. E.g., if we get Flynn, we definitely will not trade up for Luck or RG3. And we could be stuck with another marginal QB for the next 3+ years.
Pickin 6th hurts
It would be great to get RGIII or LUCK,but i dont think picking at the 6 spot will get us there.New coaches and managers in Indy,in my opinion,tells me they are moving on from Manning.Id be tickled pink if the Colts picked RGIII,then it would be easier for us to trade the farm for Luck.You are correct in your opinion of Holmgren ,he is one of the best at GM.To deal with the Browns we are gonna have to give,give,give.
talk about rain on a parade...
I can hear the whinning sound coming from the air being let out of the Flynn balloon from all those who were blinded by the flicker / shine of that performance in that meaningless game.
I am not sure that the ShanAllen Plan included trading up for one of the two best QB prospects, if you asked either one before the season started. But here we are. And Shanahan now has one of his best friends now coaching the Rams, not in need of a QB, making them a willing trade partner. WE CAN’T LOSE!!!! We get one of them, with BOTH excelling in this system. I am so excited, I can hardly contain myself….
haha since when does friendship ever trump smart FB decisions
If Fisher makes a trade it will be because its the best possible offer.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
I agree
but we could very well be the team with the best offer. Cleveland is NOT moving up, so cross them off. Our situation is better than Miami’s and Seattle’s
Crying Lion
again why is Cleveland 'not moving up'?
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
because anything that shoots holes in his argument
Is discounted and ignored entirely… this is another one of those "agenda" posts that I’ve blundered into
I’m out of here
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 21, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
no, don't get me wrong...
there are no “Help me out” type trades in the NFL. What I am implying is that, trading is complicated, requiring negotiating. It helps when the two men negotiating are friends, both can be amicable, helping both of their teams.
I am not a conspiracy theorist…
QB
We dont have alotta options to fill the biggest need,and that sucks!!
We do though
and it is staring us right in the face. The trade up needs to happen, now more than ever.
Crying Lion
There aren't a lot of options to get a franchise guy for sure...
but there are plenty of capable QB’s that are going to be free agents that could come in and start if for some reason we chose to go after Bray or Barkley next year. I’d be okay with a 2 year deal for Quinn, Orton, or even Josh Johnson
"Honey Badger Don't Care"
Shanny aint targeting anybody next year
Shannahan wants to win now, that is why they tried to win in year one so dont rely on him wasting another year to go after Barkley or Bray, when Luck and Griffin III is graded higher prospects then either of them. In any other draft year RG3 would be the number 1 overall pick so if you get either him or Luck you are gettin #1 overall pick value so you have to make the move so u can get all the learning out of the way in 2012
by Highspeed30 on Jan 21, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
I disagree with that...
Griffin would not be picked higher than Bray next year…
"Honey Badger Don't Care"
Griffin and Luck are better as prospects than Barkley and Bray
and you think if bray came out this year he would go before RG3?? i dont
by Highspeed30 on Jan 21, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
as a sophmore no...
but like I said, NEXT year, Yes. Bray would be chosen higher as a junior than Griffin as a senior
"Honey Badger Don't Care"
I am not that impressed with Bray
and he might not come out next year anyway, might do what Landry Jones had to do and go back to school
by Highspeed30 on Jan 21, 2012 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
Sure, what's wrong with another year without a franchise QB?
No big deal, right?
by Bryan Black on Jan 21, 2012 10:31 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
yes it is a big deal cause that would mean that you would waste a pick on a 2nd tier QB this year
and hope that he pan out, and if not then you waste a 2nd or 3rd pick on a QB to go and draft a QB in 2013??? this team aint gonna be that bad where they will get the 1st pick in 2013 so you would still have to trade up to get either Bray or Barkley. another year for them to develop so it would be a bad idea IMO
by Highspeed30 on Jan 21, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
the original post was for a free agent...
not using a pick this year…but next
"Honey Badger Don't Care"
I'm down for trading up....
But I really feel as if we’re going to trade up to two….I’d rather throw an extra 2 and 4 in there and get Luck
"Honey Badger Don't Care"
I dont think Luck is for sale unless you give a Herschel Walker type of deal
3 1st rd, 3 2nd rd, 3rd and 6th rd is what they paid for walker and that is not gonna happen.
by Highspeed30 on Jan 21, 2012 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
It might not be an option though
If Manning retires due to the injury, The Colts have to take a QB. They won’t get a good one at 6.
Crying Lion
Hence my three team trade scenario...
The Rams have lots of holes, picking at 6 is fine for them
"Honey Badger Don't Care"
Makes sense especially if Indy has RGIII and Luck graded as close and most do
I still thinks its a smoke and mirrors and that Indy is going to ride with Peyton, thus trading the pick
by Bryan Black on Jan 21, 2012 10:38 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
The only type of trade that could be worked out this early is a draft and trade agreement with Indy
“With the 1st pick Indianapolis selects Andrew Luck, QB Stanford. Indianapolis has traded their selection to Washington” sounds good doesn’t it?
by Bryan Black on Jan 21, 2012 10:42 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
it wouldn't come close to evening itself out
last we we got a mid 2nd round pick for trading back, now we’d have to give up way more than that.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
that doesn't make sense, last year we traded back and got a better caliber of player
the same could easily happen again.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
would you trade Kerrigan, Jarvis Jenkins and Hankerson ??
for Aaron Rodgers?? Eli Manning or Sam Bradford?
by Highspeed30 on Jan 21, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Rodgers and Manning yes
Bradford no way, and guess what it will cost us a lot more than that.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
i dont think it will cost more that a swap this year
and 2012 2nd rd pick = jarvis jenkins and 2013 1st = kerrigan #16 pick and 2013 3rd = Hankerson 3rd rd pick. maybe have to throw in a 4th but i dont think so.
For a player that could range from Sam Bradford, Eli Manning, or Aaron Rodgers
by Highspeed30 on Jan 21, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
actually Jenkins wasn't part of the deal
it was just a separate 2nd rounder that we flipped for Hank, Helu, Robinson and Hurt.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
i dont think it will cost more that a swap this year
and 2012 2nd rd pick = jarvis jenkins and 2013 1st = kerrigan #16 pick and 2013 3rd = Hankerson 3rd rd pick. maybe have to throw in a 4th but i dont think so.
For a player that could range from Sam Bradford, Eli Manning, or Aaron Rodgers
by Highspeed30 on Jan 21, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
i dont think it will cost more that a swap this year
and 2012 2nd rd pick = jarvis jenkins and 2013 1st = kerrigan #16 pick and 2013 3rd = Hankerson 3rd rd pick. maybe have to throw in a 4th but i dont think so.
For a player that could range from Sam Bradford, Eli Manning, or Aaron Rodgers
by Highspeed30 on Jan 21, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
I'd rather have Bradford than Eli.
Rodgers is an obvious yes, though.
"Dominant" is an adjective.
"Dominate" is a verb.
We'll work on "Dominance" once we get the first two figured out.
but you could live with trading them for a QB
With any of the qb’s that was named Rodgers, Eli,Stafford or Bradford. Any of them is 100 times better than what we have at QB
Yeah, I agree with your general sentiment.
If you have enough faith in an elite QB prospect, I think it’s okay to trade a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounder for him. It all depends on the situation, but in the one you outlined, I’d trade our three guys for Rodgers or Bradford. Probably not for Eli. That being said, I also love having Kerrigan, Jenkins, and Hank.
"Dominant" is an adjective.
"Dominate" is a verb.
We'll work on "Dominance" once we get the first two figured out.
i just think it is easier to find players at those positions
It is just so hard trying to find a Franchise QB, just look at the Redskins history the last 20 years, Browns, Lions or Dolphins since Marino retired. as much as i like Kerrigan, Hank and Jenkins, i feel like you can replace them easier even with later round picks but QB after the top 2 prospects in a draft year the talent drop off is greater than at any other position.
by Highspeed30 on Jan 22, 2012 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
there's the problem
there’s no guarantee that Luck or Griffin are going to be even half as good as Aaron Rodgers.
by TheDeepBall on Jan 21, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
There aint no guarantee that they wont be as good or better than rodgers
that is why i gave a range of players Eli, Bradford or even Stafford. both of these guys are rated higher than Rodgers was coming out
by Highspeed30 on Jan 21, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
That "range" of players
is 3 top 5 QBs and one on a terrible team. The question is, would you trade all those guys for Alex Smith, Joe Flacco, or Josh Freeman?
by TheDeepBall on Jan 21, 2012 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
the low end is Bradford or Stafford
but there is only one top 5 QB for sure on that list Rodgers and it is up for debate if Eli is a top 5 QB.
As for Josh Freeman he is very talented and might be worth the trade. Smith and Flacco maybe not but if Rg3 turned out to be that i could live with it.
But it is fair to say that Andrew Luck is one of the best prospects in 15 years or so, and from most RG3 is not far behind and would be 1st overall pick if Luck was not in draft
by Highspeed30 on Jan 21, 2012 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
But it is fair to say that Andrew Luck is one of the best prospects in 15 years or so,
So was Ryan Leaf.
neither shuler or leaf is rated as a better prospect than Luck
Most say Luck is as close to cant miss as you can get
Indy's got an interesting decision
Suck and rebuild with Luck or keep Manning and get a ton of picks
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
I totally agreed
With your opinion on Eli before yesterday. But no more. It was a tough pill to swallow, but I finally got it down. As much as it pains me to say this, Eli IS an elite QB. Two or three years ago, no way. But he is now, and I don’t see how you can question it. He has played better than Rodgers AND Brady in the playoffs, and I wouldn’t be surprised at all I he wins the Superbowl.
The reason I’m saying this ( as hard as it is) is because now you really have to look at that deal and say that the Giants got the better end of it. I don’t care how many Pro Bowlers San Diego got, none of them are worth 2 Super Bowls. And now that Merriman has washed out, and Rivers has regressed (at least to below Eli’s level), it’s more evident than ever.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
Why are you so set on us trading back?
Just like you aked me, why is Cleveland not trading up?
Crying Lion
wait you want me to answer why they 'aren't' or why they 'are'?
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
I wanted you to answer why we should trade back
since that’s waht you would like us to do.
I have answered why Cleveland will not trade up. I have also answered why we NEED to trade up. I just want to hear why we should risk missing a possible once-in-a decade type of QB prospect, because you believe int’s not in our best interest to trade up………eventhough QB is our greatest need, and you and I both argee that the QB position in the most important on a team.
Crying Lion
why we should trade back is simple
we are still working with both a talent and a pick deficiency from the Vinny years and first Shanny year.
We have a high pick in the draft which should have suitors (depending on who is still on the board depends on which actual suitor), and we can trade back and fill multiple needs. Including getting a young talented signal caller like Tannehill. By trading back once or twice, we could add 3-5 draft picks (though obviously they could look to acquire a 1st next year) and help fill those positions.
If a QB was available at 6 then its a different story, but we can’t just assume that RGIII will be.
And as opposed to trading up, what sounds better RGIII and the loss of our 2nd this year and 1st next year (plus other picks). Or Tannehill (or Foles) and our own picks plus those that we got by trading back. Now you are talking about an 8 player swing potentially.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Plus
If the Redskins (with or without Griffin) do struggle next year (and unfortunately I think they will), that first rd pick your giving up could be a top 10 pick
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
it is a matter of what you think. let say you got Ed Reed and Haloti Nagta caliber of players with picks not traded
you would take both of them over Aaron Rodgers, Brees or Brady cause i would not
by Highspeed30 on Jan 21, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
ok but this is not realistic
because nobody has a crystal bal to project that you could get a hall of fame type player. Of course you would want these guys but you can’t peg them at their current level of production without playing a single nfl snap. More picks equals better chance of success on finding a potential star.
by davetrembling on Jan 21, 2012 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
that is my point cause if you want to trade back you get more picks
if you got the quality of player such as Ed Reed pro bowler and Nagta pro bowler with picks acquired from trading down would those 2 pro bowlers be worth it ? If the guy you traded up for was Brees, Brady, Rodgers?
And i know that is a big if as far as being a top 5 Qb but so is picking guys that trun into Ed Reed or Nagta
by Highspeed30 on Jan 21, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
yes but we only got the 2nd rounder from the Jags
we turned that into a 3rd, 4th, 6th and 7th.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
which was great
Now, this year, we do the opposite, and move up.
It’s going to happen. We are getting our QB.
Crying Lion
but its not the opposite, in fact it's a much bigger investment than what we got last year (and mind you we only got our 3rd and 4th round picks back in that deal)
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
We'll look more long term
as these things always need time to shake out before you can truely evaluate them. If Griffin turns out to be the player most think he will become, and he leads us to the playoffs, conf championships, super bowl apperaances, it’s certainly would have more than evened itself out.
Crying Lion
uhoh
but what if Flynn is the player that many (including scouts in the league) think that he can be?
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe I'm missing something
but aren’t scouts getting paid to scout a player? If so, what are they scouting him on? He’s had two actual games he’s started.
I hope your not willing to gamble our future and 10+ mill per year on a guys preseason?
Crying Lion
many of these scouts go to practices and such as well.
the point is many of these guys have a high opinion of Flynn, could it be wrong sure. But the same could be said on their opinion of Griffin.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
I understand
It’s just hard to have a solid opinion on a guy from just practice. Also, there is nothing from college to help go against the fact he was selected in the 7th round.
Crying Lion
and if RG3 doesn't shake out...
then the HC’s head rolls. That is how this works. They accept the situation as it is. They understand the risks. That is why I believe they will take a gamble (high risk / high reward). I can respect that. In fact, I love that in a HC.
Can't agree more
Looking at it this way, most of the high round QB taken in the draft had at least one major area of Concern. Joey Harrington had a weaker arm. Russell had poor work ethic. Ryan Leaf had mental issues. Tim Couch wasn’t too smart. Akilie Smith has problem reading a defense.
I’m not seeing too many deficiencies with RG3. The ONLY thing that I can even point to, is that he comes from a zone-read spread offense; that’s it. Everything else is there.
Crying Lion
first off Harrington's arm strength is an overrated factor
i could nave 5 QB’s with an arm as good or better than Griffins that busted. And Couch was pretty smart, he just got stuck on a horrible expansion team.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
You can name 5 busts with better arms than Griffin...
but Griffin is smarter, more mobile, and a harder worker than any of those guys.
I’m not saying Griffin is a sure thing, but I feel like he’s a better prospect than the guys being tossed around (Couch, Harrington, JaMarcus, Akili Smith, etc.). Grain of salt (and argument for your point of view): it’s always hard to tell how you really felt about a prospect after you’ve seen the outcome. Blinding oneself to hindsight is difficult.
"Dominant" is an adjective.
"Dominate" is a verb.
We'll work on "Dominance" once we get the first two figured out.
by Reedskin on Jan 21, 2012 8:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Touche, sort of.
Carr didn’t have any glaring weakness. However, I’m still saying Griffin’s smarter, more mobile, and has a better arm.
To give Carr some credit, he’s one of the least bust-y QB busts—had he not been sacked 5000 times behind a horrible O-line and scarred/scared for the rest of his career, maybe he becomes a decent QB.
"Dominant" is an adjective.
"Dominate" is a verb.
We'll work on "Dominance" once we get the first two figured out.
my predictions
Here are my predictions,and i know ill get bashed,lol.We sign Manning,trade from the 6 spot to …………the Bengals.They give the 17 pick in this years draft and other picks(im not very sure about the worth chart).Richardson there at 6 would have the bengals drooling.Or they could trade next years 1st and this years 17 pick(if that an equal trade).
I think Cleveland trading down for Richardson is more likely than Cincy. Cleveland doesn't just lack quality at the RB spot....they have nobody
by Bryan Black on Jan 21, 2012 10:33 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Yeah, I agree
I see them taking Blackmon though if he’s there, which in the scenerio I envision, or us trading up with the Rams, he would be.
Crying Lion
I'd love it if we could get both of their first round picks this year...
take Floyd with one, then trade back again with the second one to land Foles…that would probably net us 3 second rounders this year
"Honey Badger Don't Care"
Depends on the scenario...
I’m more than comfortable having Foles as our quarterback if Shanahan decides he doesn’t want to use multiple first and second round picks to grab Luck or Griffin. I’d rather have Luck than Griffin and Foles both. I don’t run the organization, so I don’t know what they plan on doing. BUT if we decide to trade back, I want Foles….if we decide to trade up, I want Luck. Is it wrong to have an opinion on different scenarios? Who do you think we should draft with our first pick? I want to know so I can ensure you don’t have an opinion on any other player in the whole fucking draft
"Honey Badger Don't Care"
not at all...
I was just getting confused with one post “trade up” and then scrolling down and reading “trade down”. I think just as you do. I have been promoting trading up for Luck for months now. He is my Plan A, RG3 is my Plan B, selecting a lower tier guy is more like plan C or D.
RG3 is my if he's available at 6 pick (which he won't be)...
if we can’t trade up for Luck, which is my Plan A….I want to trade back. I’m actually willing to trade out completely from the first to acquire some additional 1st rounders in 2013 and 2014
"Honey Badger Don't Care"
besides, my opinion on "any other playing in the draft"...
is totally irrelavant. Our draft is predicated on one of the top two QBs. Shanahan will be judged by this selection, IMHO…
LUCK
Id jump up and down ,and do cartwheels if we could land Luck.I am from west virginia,and Lucks dad is the AD there as well as a past player.So ive payed more attention to Andrew Luck more than usual.He is as advertised
Tiller
I beleive you are correct,this new bargaining agreement help us be able to do more moves on draft day.But,the only problem is every other trade partner knows what we need.The price is gonna be HIGH on Griffin as well as Luck.
It's mutually beneficial for both us and the Rams
Rams need more picks, we nned a QB. This equalls perfect partners. Both teams know it, so it shouldn’t be that much of an issue. Sure it will cost us a pretty penny, but everything worth getting usually does.
Much like we were last year, the Rams are one team that can really benefit from a trade back. It gives them so many more options at the positions of need. Maybe they fall in love with Kalil, but even so, It isn’t a be-all, end-all. They could slide back 4 spots, pick up 4 draft picks, and get a guy like Reiff at LT instead. Just sooooo much more value this way. They know this, we know this.
IMO, Cleveland id out. Just read this: http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2012/01/mike_holmgrens_track_record_in.html
RG3 is ours for the taking!!!! And, I’m one happy man!
Crying Lion
what in Shanahan's track record says that he is trading for RGIII?
The Cutler deal isn’t even close to comparable, he had a number of extra picks (mostly by us), and he had Plummer to ease him in.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
Did you ever see Christmas Vacation?
“We needed a tree. Lewis burnt down mine. It’s christmas eve. there were no tree lots open, so I did the next best thing”
ie. The new season is approachinhg. My QB Rex Grossman was a total disaster last year for this team. We may not be in a position to get one of the top two QB in the draft at pick #6. So we make a move up(extreme or not).
Crying Lion
haha good movie
but really that is the worst thing Shanny could do is be desperate.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
I love the movie too - one of my favorites
I actually don’t view this as desperate. Desperate to me would have been taking Gabbert last year, or spending 10+ mill on the unknown in Flynn this year.
i think we underestimate Shanny a bit, if we are to call this desperate. I think we could use the term “good fit”, as Griffin seems to have EVERY attribute Shanny covets in his signal caller.
I think we can both at least agree on this last part.
Crying Lion
i'm not knocking Griffin
the desperation is trading up regardless of the costs
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, I know your not knocking Griffin
I believe the price of trading up for a kid of his calibur is well worth the risk associated.
Crying Lion
unless he turns out to be Andre Ware
Another in a long list of Heisman Trophy winner QB’s who turned out to be either busts or mediocre at best. In fact the Only NFL “Elite” Heisman Trophy winner QB I can think of is Staubach.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
correction
Paul Hornung…but that was an ancient era. Plunkett had a couple good years late in his career as did Vinny and the book is not out on Newton or Bradford yet. But there were 28 Heisman QB’s and that’s it?
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
not to nitpick...but....
Hornung was not an NFL QB.
"Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say."-Robert Hunter
You can't knock a guy for winning the Heisman.
It’s no guarantee, but it’s not like it’s a bad thing, either.
"Dominant" is an adjective.
"Dominate" is a verb.
We'll work on "Dominance" once we get the first two figured out.
I posted this before
Everyone is over looking the needs of the team trading down with us. They have need(s) and a draft plan that they are trying to accomplish/follow also. This is why I have never bought the “we gotta trade the next 5 years worth of picks” thats believed by some.
by Bryan Black on Jan 21, 2012 11:06 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Speaking on the over reacting of some
At one point someone suggested it would take 9 picks over 3 years and the common thing I read is 7 picks. Ridiculous and unfounded to move up at most 4 spots..plain and simple
by Bryan Black on Jan 21, 2012 1:39 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
It will cost IMO
2012: 1,2 picks
2013: 1, 3 picks
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
our 1st pick this year...
is a given, since we are swapping 1st rd. picks.
So the actual cost is our #2 pick in 2012, and our #1 & #3 pick in 2013. Perhaps. Well worth it if we solidify our QB position.
Same thing-
but I hope your right, that it will cost less than that
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
In a nutshell
Ding ding ding….your the big winner!!
by Bryan Black on Jan 21, 2012 3:38 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
People need to understand
when trading up, we are getting something good in return too. It’s not always a negative. It’s one extra year, without a 1st rounder. Can we live with that? Absolutely. Especially if the staff believes we have finally found our guy.
Crying Lion
It makes total sense to me that the Rams would want to trade down
the second pick is likely to be RG3. Using it on anybody else is, in a sense, wasting value. The Rams (apparently) don’t want RG3. They lose nothing trading down a little – to 3, 4, 5, or 6, thus acquiring extra picks “free”. They would logically trade to get the pick(s) that will let them get the players they most want. So we just have to outbid Minn, Cleve and TB. Cleveland (or other teams) would probably not want to trade up unless they wanted RG3. So it could come down to us vs Cleveland. Holmgren knows that and suggested that the Skins should draft a QB. He might not be willing to spend as much as us because he has a pretty good QB already (McCoy), and/or could have other ideas (like Tannehill, Flynn or Manning).
Flynn is one of two teams right now
Browns or Dolphins. We aren’t touching him, and Seattle isn’t touching him(Peety wants his boy Barkley next year). The only other wild card team I could see in the Flynn race would be the Jets.
I think our name may come up, but it will be more done so through pure speculation, and maybe some intentional misdirection from Flynn’s agent to try and get the price higher. People tend to think when the Redskins are involved, the price immediately goes up.
Crying Lion
i'm still not sure why we aren't touching him
We haven’t gone the free agency QB route since Jeff George, so not sure why something that happened 10 years ago would affect our FA decisions.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
Grossman was a FA the same way Todd Collins was or the same way Joey Galloway was
not even close to applicable, and if you are trying to base it on success rate, 1st round QB (esp. trading up for one) is not the way to go.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
A free agent, is a FA is a FA
Grossman was a lot younger than Galloway, who was brought in to mentor and be a camp body(he just happened to stick around a little longer than just camp). Grossman was brought in to be a starter. Kyle believed he turned the corner, and could be a valuable piece to our team. If we didn’t believe in Rex, we would have went out and made a play for Orton.
Believe what ever you like, but we are not going that route with Flynn……….maybe another FA will be brought in, as we are going to need more than one QB on this roster, but one will not be brought in to be our long-trem starter, and one will not be given 10+ mill a year.
You can put me on record as saying this. And I promise, if I’m wrong, I’ll come on and do a post stating so, and you can all post pictures of crows……………promise.
Crying Lion
fine use Artis Hicks
did his signing prevent us from going after Chester? Will it prevent us from trying to get a Grubbs or Nicks?
Grossman was brought in originally as a backup who new the system. The 2nd year it was just to compete with Beck. This isn’t comparable at all.
We didn’t make a play for Orton b/c the Redskins had no business trying to trade draft picks last year.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Hicks was a swing man
who was older, and brought in because the staff knew he could play G and T if needed. He also wasn’t breaking the bank contract wise.
Crying Lion
exactly ditto with Grossman
Hicks was given a 3 year deal at $3 million a year which is about 3 times (in both years and money per year) that we gave our QB.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
Steve, you must have an opinion on the Philbin hire...
and the affects it will have on the Dolphins. I have not heard you state if this will determine where Flynn will play.
Go on record….
no, thats fine
I like to hear the opinions on this. And, it is certainly relavant to this topic.
Crying Lion
oh i def. think it increases their chance
and moves Miami up in the chances and I’d say that now they are probably the frontrunner.
But i won’t say they are def. for a couple of reasons. I know they have some cap room, but it might be half as much as ours (maybe more like 55%) and they have some key FA’s to sign as well. Also they need to workout new longterm deals with both Jake Long and Cameron Wake. Wake esp. will be pricey (Long already is so it won’t really impact their future cap projections), as he’ll be going from about $1 million this year, to possibly as much as $10 million a year. And while Flynn is a better QB than Matt Moore, the Dolphins aren’t in as dire of a need as say us, or Cleveland, so they might be more likely to wait it out and just bring in a cheaper veteran to compete with Moore.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
And while Flynn is a better QB than Matt Moore,
Where is the proof of this? It may be true, but where is the proof?
Crying Lion
Flynn is considered more accurate and better able to read defenses.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Moore has a better arm, and is more mobile(throws way better on the run)
AND, we actually have games to judge him on.
Crying Lion
my thought are...
Philbin NEEDS Flynn, in the establishing of the system, of which Flynn has been a part for 4 yrs. now. Flynn can help Bush, Marshall acclimate to the system quicker.
I also think that Matt Moore will stay in Miami. He can provide a backup (in case Flynn doesn’t provide the spark needed) who has demonstrated an ability to play.
and, IF Skins and Seahawks are not offering contracts...
perhaps, Phins can get Flynn at a more reasonable price.
Good for them, as long as it is not us…
oh i'm sure he'll try to get him, but it is far from a lock.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
But we gave resigned our QB last year knowing he was set to be our starter
Hicks was signed mainly for depth, or spot-starting.
Crying Lion
no Hicks was signed as a starter, Monty just beat him out
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
Ugh...............welll, it could be loked at that way.
I think the play was for him to be more a back-up; especially given his age.
Crying Lion
i think they thought he could be a cheap upgrade to Will Montgomery
they were wrong.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
exactly, just like Grossman
which is why Grossman has zero bearing on signing Flynn.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 21, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
the Titans screwed us last year
Locker would be our starter this a year,and id say a damn good QB.Thats who Shanahan really wanted in last years draft but had to go to plan B.This year we get a good QB no matter what.
he was high on Locker
who is not in the same class of a prospect as RG3 or Luck. He like Locker cause of his mobility but Locker’s completion % was not good in the pocket it was a lot better out of the pocket, but either Luck or RG3 can play in or out of the pocket
by Highspeed30 on Jan 21, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
I loved Locker in 2010 & 2011. I really wanted him to be the Redskin's QB.
That being said, Griffin is on a whole other level than Locker. Griffin is much more accurate, more mobile and won in college. Locker carried a bad team and didn’t complain, and I deeply respected him for that. I think they will both be successful, but Griffin has so much more potential and will be an elite(top 5) QB.
Skins rule
Locker was a flawed prospect
and proved himself so in his playing time this year. Notice I’ve never denigrated RG3? He’s a much better prospect. If this were a different situation I’d be all for it, but the cost to trade up is simply going to be too high.
Too early to know for sure on Locker.
I, for one, feel that if Shanahan was in love with Locker, Tennessee taking him was a blessing for us. I don’t like Locker as a prospect, but that’s just me. I think Tiller’s right there with you on this one though (correct me if I’m wrong).
"Dominant" is an adjective.
"Dominate" is a verb.
We'll work on "Dominance" once we get the first two figured out.
This is why Shanahan is a friggin genuis
He has the masses thinking he is trading a million pics for rg3 or going after peyton manning. He wants you to think this. He is a fine poker player never revealing his hand till it is time to shove the chips in. He salivates at the fact that all these morons have him doing this and that so he can make his move. Its laughable that people say yep we trade up done deal. In the end he will trade back, sign flynn, and pick a qb in the second or third round also.
First of all
He would have to sign Flynn frist, so that would give away any “plan” he could have. You’ll know my the end of March which direction the Skins will go in the draft. If no major name QB is on our roster come April, you bet your ass we are trading up.
Crying Lion
Maybe after the senior bowl he falls in love with foles
If he doesn’t sign a qb before the draft doesn’t mean we trade up
by davetrembling on Jan 21, 2012 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
That's where you are a little off base
This man is not risking his professional reputation any more on any 2nd tier QB’s. No more Grossman’s, no Flynn’s, no Foles, Tannehill, no Lindley. It’s going to be a top rookie. This is as close to a guarantee as I can make, without actually making one.
Crying Lion
maybe his professional reputation says someone beyond luck or rg3 can have the same success
by davetrembling on Jan 21, 2012 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
While I agree with a lot of your current sentiments on the QB situation...
and how/who we should draft, I’m not as sure about this particular idea. I don’t feel like Shanny ever really “staked his reputation” on Rex. Yes, I know he said he would, but I’m pretty confident that he just didn’t really have any good realistic options for acquiring a good QB that year, and he was BSing nice things about his QB for the sake of team/player morale. I think Shanny is insanely confident in his instincts (which is fine—a coach should be, at least to an extent), and if he decides that he really likes Foles or Weeden or some other QB considered by others to be “2nd-tier,” he’ll have no problem going ahead with that guy as the team’s future starter.
I’m not saying he won’t be more inclined to fall in love with Luck or Griffin. Personally, I’d rather have him trade up for one of those guys than grab a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round (right with you on that one). I just wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss the possibility of Shanny going with another prospect, given what we know about his ego/self-confidence.
"Dominant" is an adjective.
"Dominate" is a verb.
We'll work on "Dominance" once we get the first two figured out.
Dave - it's not that simple at all
You can’t know what Shanahan is thinking. One pretty good report says the Skins are not high on Flynn.
I'm wondering, Dave...
what if Flynn DID NOT have the game of a career, would he still be “the best FA QB out there”? What if he had thrown 225 yds, 2 tds, would he still get the cred that he is getting now?
No one knows Flynn better than the guy who worked with him daily for the last 3-4 years, Joe Philbin. If Miami does not sign him, that would tell me something about Flynn…
Clearly that
game helped Flynn’s brand, but people were talking about him as a FA target before the game against Detroit.
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
As a potential guy to trade for, and have over the likes of Grossman
not to be our future, and certainly not at 11mill per year
Crying Lion
Our future, our future, our future.
A) Our future comes one year at a time. You aren’t setting the franchise back a decade by signing Flynn. You also aren’t setting the franchise back a decade by a rookie QB busting, not since they changed the rules. You ARE risking setting the franchise back by giving up the heart of two drafts to take one player; if that one player doesn’t turn out to be one of those once in a generation talents, you’ve definitely hurt the team.
2) I really rather doubt Flynn will come in that high on salary. I’ve seen too many knowledgeable NFL contract and cap wonks saying he’s going to get significantly less than Kolb did, partially because of Kolb and partially because of the lack of in-season game tape. That means he’s significantly less of a risk, and a potentially higher payoff, than you are intimating.
D) I’m glad you finally admit Flynn is better than Grossman. You’ve avoided that equivocation and I’m glad to see you go with it. He’s an upgrade at the position, he’ll come relatively cheap (and one of the best cap wizards in the biz is sitting in our GM chair to structure the contract appropriately) and he won’t cost ANY draft picks.
You could be
when you are giving him 11million per year. Let me repeat……..11 million per year, and for what! An unproven guy, who has excelled in ANOTHER teams system. This just reaks of incompetence, if this is the direction the staff chooses.
Crying Lion
I listened to ESPN 980's cap expert JI Halsell
Who explained that he expected Flynn to get a contract worth about $4-6 million per season, not $11 mill
^^ This.
I’ve been hearing and reading too much from too many people that his contract isn’t going to be anywhere close to the $11mil figure Tiller keeps repeating like it’s gospel truth.
if you have a problem with the projection of his contract...
take it up with Steve, since he posted an entire post on the projection.
It shouldn’t be 11 million, he most definitely is not worth that much…
Yeah man
sorry, I don’t pretend to be a salary cap expert. I defer to Steve who was the one who came up with the projection. Steve knows his shit with this stuff, so feel free to take it up with him.
Crying Lion
I know what Steve posted, and he knows his stuff
Was just offering other info I heard that stated Flynn’s contract number might be significantly lower
Pretty sure Flynn is not coming here
so sure actually, I’m will go go public with this claim, and risk any type of ridicule you guys can throw my way if I’m wrong. I’ll take bets, challenges; whatever you want to throw at me if I’m wrong.
He’s not on our radar, nor has he ever been. Please, bring whatever you would like to the table. I’m pretty damn sure ab out this one.
Crying Lion
chris russell apparently thinks otherwise
just saying. he said on the radio yesterday that he witnessed detailed conversations about the two shanny’s apparently likeing flynn.
by davetrembling on Jan 21, 2012 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
You really think a guy who wittnessed detailed conversations with Shanny
is going to want to go public with this?
Advice for you my friend: Watch waht people do, not what whey say.
Crying Lion
I'll stand there with you, Tiller
Flynn to Miami, #2 QB in draft to Washington, McCoy another year in Cleveland (perhaps one of the 2nd tier QBs in draft), another year of Tavarius in Seattle…
Guarantees at this stage are still just educated guesses
I have heard some predictions here that I just sit and laugh at. At least Tiller gives reasons for his guesses/guarantees. None of us really know so you can’t hold someone’s feet to the fire for a guarantee at this point
by Bryan Black on Jan 21, 2012 3:53 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
If Tiller can't acommodate all the action on this one...
I’m willing to take on the overflow. I don’t think we’ll go after Flynn, either.
"Dominant" is an adjective.
"Dominate" is a verb.
We'll work on "Dominance" once we get the first two figured out.
He's on the radar.
You’re a fool to suggest otherwise.
He’s on the radar.
You’re a fool to suggest otherwise.
This is the mentality of Redskins fans for years now. Just because a guy is considered the top free agent at his position, people automatically think that player is on the Redskins radar. Did you ever think for once, Shanny might want to go in the total opposite direction of what we would usually do?
Crying Lion
A better question would be
Do you expect Shanahan to go in the total opposite direction of what he would usually do?
Shanahan is more likely to acquire a free-agent quarterback than to draft one in the first round (based on his history)
I am not on the Matt Flynn bandwagon, but I do believe that the Redskins are more likely to acquire a free-agent quarterback to start, OR start Rex Grossman next year.
It just seems too high a risk to trade up right now. I know Shanahan traded up to get Jay Cutler, but this is a much different scenario.
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 22, 2012 9:48 AM EST up reply actions
Why is it a much different scenerio?
We are in far worse shape QB wise than Denver was when they traded up for Cutler. I’d say we have a better defense than Denver had then, but they had a slightly better offense than we have now.
Overall, we are very comparable team wise. Both below average team wise, who needed that QB to make them click.
Crying Lion
I thought you were smarter than this…
Jay Cutler replaced Jake Plummer while they had a winning record and on the way to the post season. How in the hell does this compare to the Redskins?
I knew I should not have bothered commenting in here, forget I even mentioned it
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 22, 2012 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
How about you quit worrying about your cute little hypothesis
and look at reality?
Option A: Trade multiple picks, including at least four picks in the first three rounds of two drafts, for a rookie QB who, due to the CBA restructuring, will have less time than any rookie QB before him (save for last year, with the lockout) to pick up an offense. This signing has no guarantee of success, and failure definitely costs the coach his job.
Option B: Sign a promising FA QB, costing no picks, allowing the draft to continue to bring in young, cost effective talent to replace some of our older, expensive vets. This signing has no guarantee of success, and failure probably costs the coach his job.
Pretty sure if you took the names and teams out of the situation and simply described it to NFL GMs, 90%+ of them would take option B. It’s safer, it makes the entire team better, and it has a better chance of not getting the coach fired.
this is the most moronic statement yet...
since BOTH scenarios, according to you, cost the HC his job, due to the failure of his pick, whether FA or draft. I think we all know that coaches jobs are dependant on the play of the players they select.
That is the point. If he believes that a drafted player IS MORE LIKELY to succeed, he will go that route, since it is his job on the line. Wake up!
by jgibbsfan1 on Jan 22, 2012 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You missed two words.
“Definitely” and “Probably”.
I didn't miss anything...
I considered it biased, unrealistic, and untrue. You just labeled that way so people would see it your way, which I do not…
by jgibbsfan1 on Jan 22, 2012 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Why?
You do that in every post. You keep throwing out figures that are only supported by wild supposition, phrasing things to shade the entire thing in your opinion’s direction … Mitt Romney could take lessons from the way you post about things here.
I post about what I believe
forgive me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that what every fan does? It’s essentially a debate. Isn’t the idea of a debate to present your thoughts and ideas in the most polarizing way possible?
If you doubt my knowledge of the game, and ability to scout a prospect, that’s a whole different thing, but the “figures” I throw out to support my opinions are not without reason.
Crying Lion
just for clarification...
since the HC job is on the line, I would understand if Shanahan went after Flynn. I get the whole situation, I just don’t think it is the best direction for this team. We will soon find out…
I really think guys like Tannehill and Foles
could end up about anywhere. They are not immediate starters, so they could end up in a low pressure, learning environment. Wouldn’t be at all surprised for a team like Green Bay, Philly or even Dallas to take one of these guys.
Weeden is a little different. I believe he could go in and play right away, so maybe a team like the Jets(if they loose faith in Sanchez), or the Raiders, if they believe Palmer isn’t cutting it. I wouldn’t rule Weeden out with the Eagles either, as I think he could fit their scheme.
Crying Lion
I thought Philly had Kafka (or whatever his name was)...
and I agree…these guys end up anywhere (Seattle, Cleveland, Green Bay, etc.) I was just getting some opinions….
Kinda like Flynn has been doing in GB huh?
by tuckwell on Jan 22, 2012 1:38 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Haha trade future picks for an early 3rd rounder of course...
“Just Win, Baby”
I know that you are kidding.....
but since their 1st pick this year is in the 5th rd. & they already used a 3rd & a 1st from this years draft on QBs, I am pretty sure that they will not be drafting Brandon Weeden.
Oooops...
make that their 1st, 3rd & 4th round picks all on QBs in this years draft (almost forgot about JC)
Could you imagine this:
This is total BS by the way.
Jeff Fisher falls in love with RG3, and convinces the new GM to draft him. Before the draft the Rams get a deal in place to trade Braford to the Redskins, in exchange for our 1st round pick, and LaRon Landry. We help the Rams by taking Bradfords huge rookie deal off their hands, and let them start fresh with Griffin. They also hget a SS from the deal, and a young one at that. Then they still get to use our 1st rounder(pick #6) to get RG3 a WR, or a OT.
We get our QB(the one Shanny coveted in the 2010 draft), and get to keep all of our other picks(maybe we throw them a 4th this year as well). We now have a QB, and we have the rest of the draft to plant pieces around him.
Again, total BS thinking here, but at least something interesting to think about. Easily a win-win for both teams.
Prob a win for Bradford too, as he gets to start fresh, and he’s in an offense that suites his talents better.
Crying Lion
Wow, I'm not sure how to respond...
this is WAY OUT THERE. 1st, not sure if Fisher likes athletic QBs; 2nd, Landry is FA (it would have to be a sign-n-trade scenario, NOT LIKELY)
What if Bradford gets traded to Indy, we get Luck? Heh? Oh, wait, know it is taking on RIDICULOUS!!!! haha.
Fisher drafted Vince Young
so I think you have your answer right there. Also, we would resign Landry in free agency, and act like nothing was going to change.
Crying Lion
I hate to correct a fellow believer...
but it was the Titans owner who wanted VY, not Fisher. It was the beginning of the end for Fisher in Tennessee…
You guys a cult now?
I hate to correct a fellow believer…
+1
Anyways, I respect anyone who has an opinion either way.
don’t forget, there are a lot of fence sitters on HH
Crying Lion
Yes there are a lot of "fence sitters" on HH.....
There are also just as many who pick a side (often with no real foundation for their choice) plant their flag and staunchly defend their opinion as if it was a black and white situation…….I know, I know, that’s what makes it fun. Their are several scenarios that I would be OK with. If Shanny really likes what he sees in Foles or Tannehill, and this is reinforced after working with these guys for the Senior Bowl, by all means go get your guy. I am OK with Weeden if Shanny thinks he can step right in….hell if they get their trade back mojo workin like last year they could take Weeden and Foles and still use significantly less resources that it would take RG3.
All this being said, the same goes for RG3…..I would be thrilled if he ended up in the B&G, as long the trade up sweepstakes doesn’t get too out of hand.
"Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say."-Robert Hunter
this is the kind of post one puts up...
when it appears all bloggers have taken their afternoon naps….
What can I say
I’m a man for the people.
Gotta go shouvle snow now. Keep the discussion hot. I’ll be back to check in later during the Shrine Game.
Crying Lion
Well that settles it.
I’m so thankful we have someone on the inside that can leak exactly what the skins will do about QB. Tiller your the best!
I personally think they are making a big mistake though since Matt Flynn has played in the NFL and third has not. It’s a risk, but they no better.
PS I also love archives…
Rodskins
by Rodskins on Jan 21, 2012 4:39 PM EST via Android app reply actions
then who ?
if we lose out on getting RG11 then what other option is out there i dont want peyton orton sucks. and dont give me this crap to start rexy again this year and wait to draft barkley in 2013 its make or break for shanny this year. if he does not get a franchise QB this year danny boy for sure will fire his ass. foles or tannyhill in the second rounds are possible
lohaus #54
We are not drafting a QB this year either...
FREAK OUT!!!!!!!!
Asking price for Flynn is 4-5 years 60 million…Just think what he would ask for if he played a half a season.
Am I the only one who sees Derek Anderson when I watch Flynn?
$50 says you are wrong.
A QB will be drafted this year. What round is the question.
Redskins @RGIII - 2012
by Copious 1 on Jan 21, 2012 7:56 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
It is weird - Flynn seems to have been anointed as a top QB
The best veteran in FA. And why? He is unproven – one good game with a top team and suddenly he’s a Manning or Rodgers. It just makes no sense to chase him or throw a lot of money at him.
Donnio
don’t you know it’s the Redskin way?
Fans are so preconditioned to this type of thing, they become like Pavlov’s dogs. Bell rings – dogs salivate. Top free agent – Redskins fans salivate.
It’s actually become pretty sad. I was hoping we turned a page as a fan base, but alas, we are too set in our ways to every move on. It became evident to me last year, when we did the FAN GM exercises. Remember who we signed? The oldest, most recognizable, most expensive free agents avaliable……………………and yes, these were voted upon by our peirs. Why would you expect anything to change this year.
Actually, if it tells me anything, it’s that the staff is going to do the exact opposite of the masses. The fams and media think Flynn – we will sigh Stanton. The fans want more linemen, or to trade back again – we will trade up for RG3 or Luck.
Crying Lion
Your psychology is crap
and quite frankly, I’m quickly tiring of your snipe implications about people who think differently than you. “Oh, that’s the Redskins way, it’s so Vinny, Pavlov, bllleeehhhhh” … Just stop it, it’s embarrassing.
Quite frankly...
I’m quickly tiring of your snipe implications about people who think differently than you
Maybe you feel you need to carry the torch for your brethren, but, if you can’t handle good old fashioned debate, pathetic…
This has gone beyond debate
and we’re now into questioning other peoples’ motivations and calling them insane.
Chill
It’s called debate. You feel your way, others feel theirs. No need to go going getting your panties in a bundle over it. Understand that others have opinions and are entitled to them.
by Bryan Black on Jan 22, 2012 5:02 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Very well aware of that, sir.
I was pointing out the same thing you are.
Tuck...
Tiller was conversing with Donnie, and you get all worked up about something Tiller said. First, no need for so much excitement. Second, bring it when it has been brought to you, not when it is someone else…
Don't want others commenting on it, take it to emails.
I’ll comment where I please on this board, at the discretion of the moderators.
It's fine gibbsfan
I obviously struck a nerve with Tuck here in my comment to Donnio, so I’m assuming he felt I was personally attacking him for having the beliefs I critized in my comment.
I am not going to take it back, because I believe it to be very true. I never called anyone out personally; just made a general observation based on comments I’ve been reading, and the GM exercise we did last spring. Our fans have been trained to expect the biggest names in FA. It’s really sad.
It’s pretty obvoius that some people who are stuck in their ways don’t like this.
Crying Lion
This has gone beyond debate
and we’re now into questioning other peoples’ motivations and calling them insane.
Say what you want about me, but you saw first hand the mentality of the fan base(and it was just a small sampling here on HH) during the GM exercises we did last spring.
Correct me if I’m wrong.
Crying Lion
Tiller was not attacking me. I've been agreeing with him totally in this thread (and generally)
He was lamenting the Redskins’ front office past behavior – they got a reputation for throwing money at high priced free agents.
I thought
the old redskin way was to trade away multiple draft picks for over hyped players?
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
by Redskin44 on Jan 22, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Look
There are two very distinct sides here. One wants what we haven’t had here in decades; a great QB, and will do what’s needed in the draft to insure we get one.
The other wants to go a different route with our QB, and not mortgage any picks, thus being able to fill other holes this team has.
I personally commend both sides for having an opinion on this, and not waivering in their stance.
I’ll tell you one thing both sides have in common – winning!
Crying Lion
Some also believe Flynn can be a great QB
The BEST chance at a great QB is to aim high in the draft. The rest is a crap shoot……………..not many Tom Brady’s in the NFL. I understand your point though. I think we have just exhausted that route with the Patrick Ramsey’s and Jason Campbell’s.
I honestly believe, from a talent standpoint, that Ryan Tannehill is not the answer. I could be proven wrong though.
Let me ask you; how do you believe we can get that great QB. I’m not talking average, run-of-the-mill guy. I’m talking tools, and potential to become elite.
Crying Lion
Through the Draft
But let’s be real, Tiller, its ALL a crapshoot
True
but some are shooting the crap a lot further that others. I believe that a guy has all the tools physically between 20-24. You may be able to teach thing mentally, but usually you don’t see improvements after age 24 in things like size, speed, arm strength. That’s why I am such a fan of the college game, and the whole scouting aspect. You truely get to see these prospects mature right before your own eyes.
If I see things that are lacking in college, it’s a red flag for me. This is why I personally put so much emphasis on the draft.
Crying Lion
I am a bigger fan of the college game
than the NFL for this reason. I am fortunate enough to have been involved in the game since I was 7 years old, as a player, coach and high school scout. This is why you see me get so passionate about things. Not because I want to be right, or because I am angry at someone. It’s just part of who I am……..always has been. I eat, sleep and breath football.
Crying Lion
Yes, we do need to draft a QB.
We need to draft one with great potential, one that has all the tools, the mentality, the leadership to become an outstanding franchise QB for the Redskins. We absolutely need that.
We don’t need it so badly as to sabotage the development of the rest of the team. There really is such a thing as “good enough for a while.” We thought Rex might be, and he wasn’t. Flynn looks like a good bet to be “good enough for a while.” Good enough to improve the offense, score more points, and let the rest of this suddenly very young team develop.
We do need to draft that future franchise QB, but we don’t have to draft him this year. We’re in a very disadvantageous position, in that we have enough picks to trade up, but too many holes on the team to blow them for one guy. One more very well managed draft like last year would fill most of the needs on this team. Appropriate free agent signings can solve even more problems. That leaves us with a nice chance to trade up into the top picks NEXT year to grab a high end QB prospect, who will come into a better team with a QB that has hopefully proved to be “good enough” to run the team another season, giving that rookie a year to learn.
I want to upgrade the position. I eventually want a “great” QB, but I don’t want it at the cost it will carry this year.
The problem is the Redskins have had QB's that is supposed to be "good enough for a while" for 20 years
you cant keep tyrna wait til next year to fill the biggest need on your team or any team, the QB is the most important position in Football, they get too much credit but they also take the most critizism like Joe Flacco he made a play to send his team to the Super Bowl but his receiver dropped it but everyone will blame Flacco more than anybody else. it is what it is.
Franchise QB is the hardest position to try and fill and you can not keep tryna fill that spot with 2nd rate type of talent cause 20 years is proof that it dont work, so you have to draft the best QB prospect you can and clearly the 2 best this year are Luck and RG3 in fact these are 2 of the highest rated QB prospects in at least 10 years so you have to have one and if it means trading some draft picks then you do it.
Like i said before which would you rather have Ed Reed ( future hall of famer and i love the way he play) Haloti Nagta,and Lardarius Webb or Aaron Rodgers?? or Tom Brady?? or Drew Brees?? or a Eli Manning?? or a Matthew Stafford???
I personally would take the QB cause they have a greater impact than any other position and is the hardest to find i can get decent production from other postions like S, NT, LB, OL, WR, TE, DE or CB and be ok but if you QB is not playing at high level it is so hard to win PERIOD
by Highspeed30 on Jan 23, 2012 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
I'd take the first three.
Aaron Rogers was sitting at home watching them play today.
It’s not “waiting till next year.” It’s “waiting till the time is right.” It might not be next year, it might be in two years. You can’t just go get a great QB and win, doesn’t work that way.
Tom Brady and Eli Manning is playing in the Super Bowl
The problem with teams like Baltimore and 49ers is they have to play damn near perfect in order to win games. Brady(he missed a lot of throws) did not have a great game and Raven Defense had a lot to do with that however they won the game. Eli was far from exceptional but he made some plays like the Manningham touchdown pass on 3rd and long big play.
But like i said most GM’s would take one of the QB’s I mentioned over players with the ability of Ed Reed, Nagta, and Webb, cause their impact on the game is greater. And it would be awfully hard trying find a Ed Reed, Nagta and Webb in the same draft or even 2 drafts
Hold one Second
1. The Patriots won on a shanked 30 yard field goal by Cundiff with 15 seconds left on the clock. And that was after Lee Evans dropped the go-ahead TD pass.
2. Eli played well, but San Fran lost that ballgame. They had two huge INTs dropped because the 49er defenders ran into each other. The 49ers led by 4 in the 3rd QT, when their punt returner decided to get too close to a bouncing ball, take it off the knee and give it to the Giants. And then the same returner fumbled another punt to give the Giants the chance at a game winning FG.
Tom Brady and Eli Manning did not win these games for their teams. If anything, the Giants and Patriots are both extremely fortunate to be appearing in the SB.
There were so many offensive possessions because both QB's were getting shut down for the most part
Sorry but Special Teams had a huge part in the outcome of both of those games, more so than the QBs
Oh and BTW Aaron Rodgers already have a Super Bowl Ring and Reed, Nagta or Webb dont have one, they was still tryna get what he already got.
Why do u think Ed Reed was so critical of Flacco this past week??? cause he know they aint gonna get there without having a QB play at a high level simple as that
and my point was that most would take "The Great" Tom Brady, or Aaron Rodgers or Eli Manning Or Drew Brees
over the combo of Ed Reed(future hall of famer) Nagta, and Webb
Look at it this way too
even on a bad day, the great Tom Brady was still good enough to beat one of the NFL’s best defenses. Could you imagine the disaster an average QB would have been in this game.
Crying Lion
Well
That play to Evans was not a TD. Should it have been reviewed, absolutely, but it would not have been overturned due to the call on the field.
The missed FG would have only sent the game to overtime. No one knows the outcome then.
And, I never said that either of these things contributed to Tom Brady winning the game. What I did say, was could you imagine the outcome, if a QB not named Brady were playing against that defense. That team is 85% pass, and even though though Brady didn’t throw a TD, he did dive in for one, and did lead his team into position to score others.
R.I.P JVP 1926-2012
I think saying that the Patriots won because of their QB is a fallacy
by StephanHart on Jan 24, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
And I think both of these games proved that Defense, Ball control, and Special Teams are the still most important factors in winning in the NFL
by StephanHart on Jan 24, 2012 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
On MAJOR special teams gaffes, Tiller
The QB play of Eli and Brady did not lead to victory for their teams.
by StephanHart on Jan 25, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
We don’t need it so badly as to sabotage the development of the rest of the team. There really is such a thing as "good enough for a while." We thought Rex might be, and he wasn’t. Flynn looks like a good bet to be "good enough for a while." Good enough to improve the offense, score more points, and let the rest of this suddenly very young team develop.
This is the main problem with this thought process: Haven’t we always been trying for “good enough for a while”? Rex, McNabb, Campbell, Ramsey, Weurfel, Johnson, Ferrotte, Brunell, Collins. Every one of these guys was either below average or past their prime.
Crying Lion
But I think that
is fair to say that has been the approach for the enitre team, and is not limited to the QB position.
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
I disagree
we have always went for the best elsewhere. When we signed haynesworth, he was considered the best, and in his prime. We have drafted the best RT avaliable in 2010. We drafted the best LB avaliable in 2009. Rogers was thought to be one of the best CB’s when we drafted him.
Crying Lion
We do need to draft that future franchise QB, but we don’t have to draft him this year.
I understand your thought about filling other needs on the team. I see you want to look at the idea of trading up in next years draft.
Let me ask you these two questions:
1) We know Shanny has said last years focus was on defense, and this year would be on offense. Offensive needs are, QB, WR, OL. What if we were to sign Myers and Grubbs/Nicks in free agency. We also sign a WR who is young, but can be a go-to threat. Would you then say we have addressed some seriouis holes with three signings?
For the price of Flynn(who is unproven), we could prob have both Myers and Grubbs(who are both proven). Now we have some extra money to sign our own guys, and go get a WR, and a few lesser known names for depth. Don’t you now think we have seriously addressed our offensive holes?
2) What if we finish next year at 8-8 and are picking between 16-18. It is going to be tougher to trade up to one of the top spots from there, and is going to cost us a lot more to do so, than it would if we were just moving up 4 spots like was suggested this year. We all know that we will always have some holes to fill on this team. What if this hamstrings us in three years instead of just next year? I guess my question is, is there ever a right or wrong time to trade up?
Crying Lion
Through the Draft
But let’s be real, Tiller, its ALL a crapshoot
Cease and Desist
Fuck Matt Flynn, fuck Errol Flynn, fuck the Flintstones and fuck the Flynn center for the performing arts. No more talk about Flynn please. (LSU qb’s suck btw) We ain’t a stupid franchise no more, we don’t overpay for FA’s.
Trading up would only be worth the loss of draft picks if it were for Andrew Luck. RGIII is not a certainty like Luck. If it only takes our 1st and a 3rd and 4th for RGIII thats fine, better than Rex and Beck. Anything more than that is too big a risk.
Please put a filter that prevents any post on HH using the word Flynn, from being posted…thank you
I would love to
but we have lots of members in the Flynn camp, and they have a right to be heard too.
Crying Lion
Tiller
I dont see flynn as the answer to our franchise qb prayers
i do see him , in conjunction with drafting a qb as being better then the rex/beck combo we had last season and the 31 TO’s we had
if he is any better than that then we should be a better team
that doesnt mean we give up the search for a franchise qb it means we try to get better at the position
I can agree that Flynn would be a better option than Rex/Beck
but I could be a better option too, so that doesn’t say much. The problem I see with your theory is we are going to have to pay him 11mill per year, to be a stop gap(or so you say), and I don’t think he’s even worh 11 mill a year to be our starter for the long term.
Crying Lion
If I were GM I would either...
Break the bank for Andrew Luck.
If RGIII isn’t available at #6, trade down for picks in next years draft and grab a QB then.
I hate to say it but, i’m almost okay with Rex being the starter in 2012 IF we shore up the OLine and upgrade at WR. He only really throws picks when he is flustered. Good pass protection would result in more time to see downfield, and open WR’s equals less chance to throw a turnover.
or get one these guys;
Ryan Tannehill
Nick Foles
Brock Osweiler
Derek Anderson
David Garrard
Chad Henne
Vince Young
David Carr
Charlie Batch
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