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At What Cost?: A Breakdown of What Potential Free Agents Ben Grubbs and Matt Flynn Could Cost:

This week Hogs Haven writers UKRedskin and Ronnie Adkins took a look at Ben Grubbs and Matt Flynn, a couple potential free agents for the Washington Redskins this offseason. While they made the case for why they should be signed, I'm going to look at the how. I will look at how these two free agents can fit under the Redskins cap, so we can evaluate whether or not they are worth it.

Now of course the first thing to look at in determining if we can afford these free agents is where are we in relation to the salary cap. Now I did a full breakdown on my blog that you can read here! The gist of it is that in relation to the projected $125 million salary cap we have just over $40 million to spend, but with some cuts and restructuring some deals the Redskins could have about $60 million. That $40-60 million is a wide margin, but there are obviously a number of determining factors. Even if we do make all the necessary cuts and moves, it is important to remember that the $60 million cap space is before we begin to sign our own guys, or the money set aside for the draft picks. Now just perusing a number of other teams, I can tell you that the Redskins are in a strong position in relation to the rest of the league (easily top 10 in terms of cap room). On the other hand though the Redskins obviously have a number of holes to fill, unlike some teams that are pretty well set.

One final point before breaking down both Grubbs and Flynn is that while looking at a yearly average for a player is important and interesting, the real things to look at are their cap number and guaranteed money. For example Barry Cofield signed a 6 year $36 million deal, but counted just $4.2 million against the cap this past year (well under his $6 million yearly average).

Star-divide

Ben Grubbs:

Chance that he resigns: 25%, The Ravens are in a tough spot. They like Grubbs, but they have a number of key free agents (and one year after having to dole out big money for a couple of players). If Grubbs takes a slight discount and back loads the deal he could be back, but beyond that he is gone.

Chance that he is Franchised: under 5%, The Ravens have to ensure Ray Rice is in the fold over Grubbs. And franchising Grubbs, goes against the whole 'backloading' idea. It would be extremely hard on Baltimore to franchise him.

What will he cost: Now the two most recent mega deals for top guards (Jahri Evans and Logan Mankins) both averaged over $8 million a year for at least 6 years. Now while Grubbs is a very good guard, he's not on that level. In fact he probably won't even get the same level contract as his current teammate RG Marshall Yanda (5 yrs, $32 million). Though the Yanda deal is a good starting point, I would look to lock him up for just under the $6.4 million yearly average of Yanda. I think a 6 year deal at $6.2 million a year ($37.2 total) would be enough to land him, with about $15 million of that guaranteed.

How does that affect the cap: Now you don't want to backload the deal too much, or he might not sign, but I think a very fair breakdown would be the following: $12 million signing bonus (this counts in equal $2 million installments each year against the cap. I'd also guarantee his entire first year salary, and $1 million of his 2nd year salary:

Year by Year breakdown: Sal=salary for that year, SB=signing bonus allotment, OB= any other bonuses, Cap hit=what he costs vs the cap, REL=what it would cost to cut a player in a given year

2012: Sal: $2 mil; SB: $2 mil; OB:$0; Cap hit: $4 million, REL: $15 million

2013: Sal: $3 mil; SB: $2 mil; OB: $0: Cap hit: $5 million; REL: $11 million

2014: Sal: $4.5 mil; SB: $2 mil; OB: $0; Cap hit: $6.5 million; REL: $8 million

2015: Sal: $6 mil, SB: $2 mil; OB: $0, Cap hit: $8 million, REL: $6 million

2016: Sal: $ 3 mil, SB: $2 mil; OB $0, Cap Hit: $5 million, REL: $4 million

2017: Sal: $ 6.7 mil; SB: $2 mil; OB $0; Cap Hit: $8.7 million; REL: $2 million

Matt Flynn:

Chance that he resigns: 0%- The Packers seem to love Flynn, but with Aaron Rodgers in the fold, they will let Flynn move on to greener pastures.

Chance that he is franchised: 10%- Even 10% might be high. I know it is a popular media story, but the Packers don't have that much cap room and would be taking a huge risk in franchising Flynn, in the hopes to get a draft pick or two. Also by franchising him they would be essentially allowing Jermichael Finley and Scott Wells hit the market. I can't see them risk losing two starters just so they can trade one backup.

What he will cost: Let's be honest this is going to be more expensive than most people hope, but that being said it can likely be structured in a way that it isn't too cost prohibitive. The Redskins could attempt to bring the annual value down somewhat, by offering more guaranteed money. Or like in the case of the Cardinals and Kevin Kolb, they could offer a higher annual value, but a lower guarantee. Now if you look at recent extensions of QB's with limited starting experience you see some distinct similarities. When the Packers extended Aaron Rodgers (he only had 7 starts at the time), Chiefs extended Matt Cassel, Cards with Kevin Kolb, and Bills with Ryan Fitzpatrick, they all recognized the risk they were taking and ensured that they essentially had an 'out' clause. Essentially they structured it so the majority of the guaranteed money was paid out in the first 3 years, meaning that they could be easily cut after that.

Now I know one counter-argument people make is that guys like Kolb and Cassel didn't have leverage since they were only negotiating with one team, but on the flip side those players had leverage since their new teams just made major trades. The last thing the Chiefs or Cards wanted to happen was allow these guys hit free agency the following season (or be forced to franchise them).

Given all of that I think it is fair to predict that a strong market for Matt Flynn will net him a 6 year $64.5 million deal ($10.75 per year), with $25 million guaranteed. Of that $15 million would be in the signing bonus, and the first two year's base salary would be guaranteed, plus $1 million in 2014.

Year by Year breakdown: Sal=salary for that year, SB=signing bonus allotment, OB= any other bonuses, Cap hit=what he costs vs the cap, REL=what it would cost to cut a player in a given year

2012: Sal: $3.5 mil; SB: $2.5 mil; OB:$0; Cap hit: $6 million, REL: $25 million

2013: Sal: $5 mil; SB: $2.5 mil; OB: $1 mil: Cap hit: $8.5 million; REL: $19 million

2014: Sal: $5 mil; SB: $2.5 mil; OB: $2 mil; Cap hit: $9.5 million; REL: $11.5 million

2015: Sal: $8.5 mil, SB: $2.5 mil; OB: $5 mil, Cap hit: $16 million, REL: $7.5 million

2016: Sal: $8 mil, SB: $2.5 mil; OB $1 mil, Cap Hit: $11.5 million, REL: $5 million

2017: Sal: $10.5 mil; SB: $2.5 mil; OB $0; Cap Hit: $13 million; REL: $2.5 million

Now obviously there are a number of ways to break down this contract but i want to go into a bit more detail on Flynn's deal. This is a good middle of the road deal that doesn't back load it too much, while at the same time ensuring that too much upfront money isn't paid out. Essentially the Redskins could get out of this deal paying under the yearly average of this deal after the first 3 years, which is why i ballooned the payments up in year 4. If Flynn doesn't produce than they could cut him with just $31.5 million in payments Flynn would only see the majority of this contract if he performs at the level the Redskins are expecting. And this deal allows for plenty of cap flexibility in the next 3 years to build a quality team around him. Overall the Redskins would have just a $10 million cap hit for Grubbs and Flynn which has to be considered extremely good.

Steve Shoup will be covering Senior Bowl Live this year for his own site Fanspeak.com, but will provide write-ups on players for the Redskins here on Hogs Haven as well. Check out his NFL Draft Page for more details and updates throughout the draft season! HTTR!

Poll
Given these cap numbers which player(s) would you look to sign?
Just Grubbs
396 votes
Just Flynn
193 votes
Both
467 votes
Neither
111 votes

1167 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 150 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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Comments

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well Peyton wouldn't cost that much to the Skins, that was a poison pill designed purposefully for both sides to make a decision.

Manning will probably cost about $15 million a year (though a low guarantee given the injury).

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Jan 19, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Remember last YRs little FA exercise where the HH community signed all the biggest FAs?

Part 2, It’s embarrising that Redskin fans EVISCERATE Snyder for being a big name FA whore and then when given the chance…do the same exact thing.

@Callahan_9 on the twitter machine.

by Diesel44 on Jan 19, 2012 8:30 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah that is funny, obviously the Skins have some money to spend, but it needs to be spent more wisely

I think my favorite last year was people sweating Davin Joseph, yes i know he just got named to the Pro Bowl, but that is a sham he’s such a bad run blocker it isn’t even funny.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Jan 19, 2012 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

and he didn't fit the scheme...

so many do not take into consideration the entire picture, how a player will fit on this team…

by jgibbsfan1 on Jan 20, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

agreed

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Jan 20, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

You only paint with that brush when you don't like the FA

Flynn is part of a larger strategy to save draft picks and build a better, younger team.

by tuckwell on Jan 20, 2012 11:25 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

man, I would just not feel comfortable giving Flynn such a long termed contract and so much guaranteed money

But you’re probably right, the race to sign him may very well lead to those numbers

As for me, all I know is that I know nothing.
*Socrates*

by atark001 on Jan 19, 2012 3:30 PM EST reply actions  

i wonder if shanahan and allen would be willing to give out such a large contract based on such a small sample size

although the cofield contract was a projection contract, as they had no idea how’d he pan out as a nose tackle…but even then cofield had years of game film on him and could at least swing over to the end if he didn’t take to the nose.

I honestly just don’t feel comfortable giving him that much money for that many years based on such a small sample size of work, but perhaps the men in charge have a better understanding of his talent/potential…I’ll leave it up to them to make the wise, prudent choice as to which direction to go with our QB, but I have my reservation on flynn at this cost

As for me, all I know is that I know nothing.
*Socrates*

by atark001 on Jan 19, 2012 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I think they will base it more off of an interview type process.

There was a decade of McNabb film and that didn’t work out very well.

I think they would judge how coachable he is.

I see it as more cushion for the pushin'

by iH8dallas on Jan 19, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Just because you are rich doesn’t mean you pay $50 for a soda. $60m to Flynn would be nutso

by Mr. E on Jan 19, 2012 6:45 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Get Flynn.

We need two QBs anyway, because Rex will be gone and Beck should think of a new career path.

I see it as more cushion for the pushin'

by iH8dallas on Jan 19, 2012 3:37 PM EST reply actions  

I voted neither...

mostly because I would want OG Nicks. Grubbs would be an excellent backup plan, only requiring him to move 45 minutes west….

by jgibbsfan1 on Jan 19, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

whatever it is...

he is worth it….

I look forward to reading the breakdown…

by jgibbsfan1 on Jan 19, 2012 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

He averages 4 per year

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Jan 19, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

WOW...

We need to do everything in our power to ensure our possession of this animal…

Do you have Allen’s cell phone number / twitter address / email address…..

by jgibbsfan1 on Jan 19, 2012 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

MrBlonde@yahoo.com

Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.

by CJHutch on Jan 19, 2012 5:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Inexcusable

Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.

by CJHutch on Jan 19, 2012 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Why not both

Why can’t we go after both Nicks and Grubbs? Realisticallt we need an upgrade at both guard posiions.

by Fred Dudley on Jan 19, 2012 7:28 PM EST up reply actions  

This.

Sign both and we go from below average interior OL to excellent with good depth. Resign London, LaRon, and Fred. Draft a quarterback, right tackle, and MLB/WR/CB/C with our first three picks.

This is probably my first choice for a plan, assuming it’s financially feasible (I think it is). If we had any money left over, I’d probably go after a FA WR (Bowe is flashiest—Reggie Wayne would be a more locker room friendly option who might consider leaving Indy now that Peyton appears to be on the way out), or a CB.

"Dominant" is an adjective.
"Dominate" is a verb.
We'll work on "Dominance" once we get the first two figured out.

by Reedskin on Jan 19, 2012 8:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Steve, I'm sure it hurt to write...
Let’s be honest this is going to be more expensive than most people hope

I’m sure this included you…

I’ll give you credit, you presented a reasonable expectation for his services. Still, way too much for a guy with two games of film.

by jgibbsfan1 on Jan 19, 2012 3:45 PM EST reply actions  

honestly not really, i've been expecting those numbers b/c i had a general idea of all the recent similar contracts

the fact is there are so many ways you can go about it. If the Redskins say guaranteed more (like $30 million) they might bring down the yearly salary to about $9 million a year, if they guaranteed less say $20 million, the average would probably be more like $11.5-12 million. With a contract like that there are just so many ways you can go about making the numbers work.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Jan 19, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess my response would be...

it doesn’t matter how you spread peanut butter (right to left, left to right, up / down…), if it is too thick, I am going to hate it stuck to the roof of my mouth…

by jgibbsfan1 on Jan 19, 2012 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

no that is a fair point but it's also one of those situations where any way you try, getting a QB is going to be expensive

If we sign a short term stop gap like Orton/V.Young/etc. They will cost between $7-9 million. Obviously no long term hit, but that 2nd rounder (Tannehill/Foles) needs to hit for us to be in the good.

Trading up for an RGIII you need to take into account the cost of replacing the players it takes to move up. Ignoring any additional picks, if it costs us a 2nd and 1st rounder, you now need to sign FA’s for those two positions who are going to be expensive.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Jan 19, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

yes, we talked about this yesterday...

it is an issue of distribution, how the team spreads it around (no H8, this is not a moment for a sexual joke…)

by jgibbsfan1 on Jan 19, 2012 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

What?

Young got 1 year $4m and is now a year older and looked bad in his pt. In what world does he now make $7m+? Orton should be happy just to get a starting job, same with Flynn.

by Mr. E on Jan 19, 2012 6:50 PM EST up reply actions  

as a point of interest...

since Manning has been on the blogs, radio, sports talk…

What would a reasonable expectation be to sign a FA contract. I realize it is more theoretical, but I would appreciate your viewpoint / breakdown…

by jgibbsfan1 on Jan 19, 2012 3:48 PM EST reply actions  

it's really hard to say

i would guess it would be structured like the McNabb extension, i.e. really good money, nice incentives, but a low guarantee. Now of course the thing to remember is each year you are on the hook. So even if it was like a 3 year $45 million deal with only 5 million guaranteed, you are still paying $15 million a year. The only benefit is you can essentially get out of it after each year.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Jan 19, 2012 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm sorry, but

The words ‘reasonable’, ‘sign’, and ‘Manning’ do not belong in the same sentence.

Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.

by CJHutch on Jan 19, 2012 5:28 PM EST up reply actions  

manning

As a free agent is very tempting. It would allow us to build the team via the draft this year and next, and be a little more savvy and strategic about how we get a long term franchise Qb. Right now I feel like we are the fat girl in the corner of the bar at 2 am willing to do anything for a Qb

When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey

by Redskin44 on Jan 19, 2012 5:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

manning

As a free agent is very tempting. It would allow us to build the team via the draft this year and next, and be a little more savvy and strategic about how we get a long term franchise Qb. Right now I feel like we are the fat girl in the corner of the bar at 2 am willing to do anything for a Qb

When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey

by Redskin44 on Jan 19, 2012 5:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

sorru for 2x mobile device... i hate this phone

When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey

by Redskin44 on Jan 19, 2012 5:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

sorru for 2x mobile device... i hate this phone

When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey

by Redskin44 on Jan 19, 2012 5:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

while that is true

Manning comes with a risk, he eats up a ton of cap room and he’s a huge injury question mark.

Also if he is a free agent I don’t see him wanting to come here. I’m sure better offers will be available.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Jan 19, 2012 6:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't understand why anyone would think that Peyton Manning

Wants to play here… hasn’t he already said he does not want to play in the same conference/division as his brother?
He already has more money than anyone else in the league, I would think he would go somewhere where he had a chance to win a championship in the next couple years… and let’s be real–Washington is not that place

The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button

by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 19, 2012 5:56 PM EST up reply actions  

How many championship teams need a QB?

I could see the Ravens or Jets, but they would have to make a pretty big change to oust their incumbent. Same for the 49ers. I’d take the Skins over the Dolphins or Seahawks.

by Mr. E on Jan 19, 2012 6:54 PM EST up reply actions  

See, given those choices

Seattle makes more sense, they play in a weaker division

The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button

by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 20, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions  

It’s not guaranteed they would take that risk though. I don’t see how he can prove his health before playing in a game so I’m not convinced he will have the buffet of options everyone assumes.

by Mr. E on Jan 20, 2012 8:25 PM EST up reply actions  

So you are saying

That the Redskins are willing to take more risks than other teams in the league?
That does not make us a very smart team, does it?

The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button

by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 21, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions  

me want lineman

flyn can go replace romo

The Beat Box aka skins secondary.

by Al_CaPWNED on Jan 19, 2012 3:51 PM EST reply actions  

shhhhhhh

let the cowboys stay blinded by the fact that romo cant win when the money is on the line.

by munson21502 on Jan 19, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Grubs yes. Flynn is a bust waiting to happen.

Dear Passionate fan, I know you are passionate, but please reply with a logical answer or I will ignore you.

by TerpsAllTheWay on Jan 19, 2012 3:55 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Grubbs who?

Why r u even bringing up Grubbs, Have you seen any of the blocking he has done for flacco lately, the entire offense for the Ravens this year has been suspect, the only bright spot is torrey smith at wr. Flynn would be nice but he has a lot less to negotiate with then any of these other guys. 2 games for flynn as oppose to half a season with philly and going 11 an 5 in New England, but I do still want flynn, he will come cheaper than a draft pick. if the Shanny monster cant get there guy, “F” it and move back, load this team with talent, cuz the one good thing we can say about this new staff is they appear to draft pretty good.

by surf3337 on Jan 19, 2012 3:59 PM EST reply actions  

huh?

have you seen Grubbs blocking? he’s been one of the best Ravens down the stretch this year (at any position). And Torrey Smith? You mean the receiver that dropped 8 balls this year? He’s not even the best receiver on the team much less ‘the only bright spot’.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Jan 19, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

well flacco does struggle

football has got to be one of the most difficult sports to judge talent. It’s built so much by the teams players r stuck on. I would be open to bringing in both these guys, i didn’t not want either, lord knows we need the help, most of all on offense. BUT……….. maybe this guy grubbs is better or worst. Cam is a horrible offensive coordinator, and Flacco’s play is terrible in all his post season play, check those stats out. The best player on that team, excluding the defense is only ray rice, he is no where near as good as MJD or Marshawn Lynch, which r two other teams with similar short cummings, but he catches a lot of love for being Ray Lewis’s boy. But if u take him away, I hope you don’t assume that Boldin is a better receiver, he’s fat an slow with good hands. Torrey Smith has given the team big play options, has anyone else done that, sure not ray rice, he’s not anywhere near fast enough. I guess u could argue one of the tightends, but when they have relied on Mason at wr for the past couple years that was the only time flacco ever looked in a rhythmn with another wr. how many more over 20yds plays did they have this year because of t. smith??? double my good sir!! so to act like he hasnt helped this pathetic offense is silly.
I like both these guys once again and would welcome both into our camp but to pay that amount, I say we just keep trying to develop guys on the cheap, our oline had a pretty good run the last couple of week.

by surf3337 on Jan 19, 2012 8:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Dude we swept the one team that just knocked out everyones favorite??????

First things, Dude you guys are awesome on this site, I can’t say that enough, you all really do your homework. On that note, I think we really need to see that we poned the giants this year, and thats hard to do. I think Mike Shanny learned his lesson from when Tom Coughlin thumped him while he was at Denver and Tom in Jax. If Coughlin even gets to this superbowl he needs to be raised amongst the coaching ranks. His defense wasn’t that good this year but that d line was legit on both occasions, sure osi was hurt for the first game but there’s a reason he’s not getting the big money, we ran on them well on both occasions, and the second time was with scrubs blocking and a very late round running back, very late round. Plus Eli has been playing good all year, and that will help the defense. Just tell the Shanny’s to keep grooming young talent to fit their schemes, and if these guys fit it, lets do it. No more over paying in DC for awhile. Thats a great question????? how long should we wait until we over pay for a much needed position again, everyone does it but we, and several teams always live with the stero types? (an accurate sterotype)

by surf3337 on Jan 19, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions  

hi

please use paragraphs

"Women should have three breasts - two in front and one in the back for dancing." -Al Bundy

by HankMonahan on Jan 20, 2012 12:42 AM EST up reply actions  

what does beating the Giatnts twice have to do with anything?

the year before we beat the Packers and the Bears, yet came out and lost one more game this past season.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Jan 20, 2012 6:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Lynch is better than Rice?

COME ON MAN!!!

"Honey Badger Don't Care"

by ptowny on Jan 20, 2012 6:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Rob Lowe knows Peyton

Really rob lowe? if peyton is done, man how much longer does big tom have? who will be the next greats?

by surf3337 on Jan 19, 2012 4:01 PM EST reply actions  

Brady has at least

4-5 more years. He’s not dealing with a serious injury the way Peyton is. If Peyton didn’t have the neck thing, he’d be around for that long as well.

Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.

by CJHutch on Jan 19, 2012 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd be ok with Grubbs as long as we don't ignore OL in the draft

I’m not really sold on the whole Flynn thing, particularly if this cost projection is accurate.

by SkinsOsTerps on Jan 19, 2012 4:15 PM EST reply actions  

Please stop saying 0rton.

Like Beetelejuice, he might appear.

Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.

by CJHutch on Jan 19, 2012 5:32 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

haha

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Jan 19, 2012 6:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Let’s let other teams continue to make mistakes then

by Mr. E on Jan 19, 2012 6:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Rather see this happen than Manning

Both Flynn and Grubbs would be welcomed additions as they both address positions of need, especially QB, and follows the new culture installed by Shanahan regarding free agency. We get a QB better than Rex and get Flynn some help to keep him upright. Most importantly, it will allow Shanahan to adjust his draft strategy with the QB and OG positions locked up (Don’t worry…he’ll still draft some OL).

Adding Flynn, WAS won’t feel pressured to compete with CLE for RGIII. It will still allow them to take a QB not named Luck or RGIII – for those who don’t like Flynn. With all the CLE rumors either trading up or not to take RGIII, WAS is probably out of the RGIII sweepstakes anyways. If that happens, WAS would still take a developmental QB that would need some time. If Flynn works out…great. If not, there’s a QB waiting to get his chance.

People…please stop with the Manning talk. Not knocking on Peyton and whats he’s accomplished, but let the Jets take a 36yo QB with 3 major neck surgeries who’s missed an entire year of football and still without a clean bill of health. We can start talking about it again when he’s 100% and can take a hit from the likes of Ware and JPP. Until then, we should concentrate on players who can actually play in 2012.

by rcboulter on Jan 19, 2012 4:27 PM EST reply actions  

Is there such thing as a leaving bonus?

I would gladly chip in if we could pay one to Rex.

I see it as more cushion for the pushin'

by iH8dallas on Jan 19, 2012 4:42 PM EST reply actions  

Wins

Which man can help the Redskins win more games?

by Elaw6 on Jan 19, 2012 4:50 PM EST reply actions  

Flynn.

I see it as more cushion for the pushin'

by iH8dallas on Jan 19, 2012 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Kolb had warning signs in Philthy

And Cassel was in the ultimate system offense. ANY 60% passer of above average intelligence can succeed in New England. I don’t think Flynn is similar to either situation.

by tuckwell on Jan 20, 2012 11:56 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Luck, RG3, Manning...

practically anyone other than what we have had here for the last 20 yrs.

by jgibbsfan1 on Jan 19, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

It would be so Redskin'esq

to give a guy like Flynn 10+ mill/year, when he’s played in just two regular season games…………………………….we need to bring back Vinny, as this moves reaks of him.

Peace out suckers!

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Jan 19, 2012 5:16 PM EST reply actions  

Yoy tell me.

At least RG3 and Luck have a college resume

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Jan 21, 2012 7:40 AM EST up reply actions  

So what?

It’s not worth the cost! We have far too many holes on this team to blow up two drafts for one guy. If we could trade those picks, the same picks it’ll take to trade up, for a guy like Matt Ryan or Eli Manning, you’d be screaming against wasting the picks.

by tuckwell on Jan 22, 2012 2:29 AM EST up reply actions  

60 million dollars (Dr. Evil reference)...

this is probably the best situation we have been in in years. Aside from the McNabb 1st yr., this FO has set this team up for the next 10 years. There is good, young talent with this team, combining it with who we sign as FA / draft.

I am extremely optimistic…

by jgibbsfan1 on Jan 19, 2012 5:21 PM EST reply actions  

it could be a lot is riding on this year

if they make the right moves this team could be a contender within 2 years, the wrong moves could set this team back 4-5 years, and of course a combo would put them right in between.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Jan 19, 2012 5:25 PM EST up reply actions  

what do they do about Landry??

given his injury history the last 2 years do what type of contract will he get?? with the Redskins or Free agent market?

Do they sign Sleepy Fred Davis back and what kinda contract will he command on the open market?

and if the sign Nicks or Grubbs do they keep Llichtensteiger?

by Highspeed30 on Jan 19, 2012 5:30 PM EST reply actions  

Nah na nah na, nah na nah na

Hey hey hey………

Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.

by CJHutch on Jan 19, 2012 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

i think they

Need to resign him. Hopefully we can structure the contract to our advantage

When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey

by Redskin44 on Jan 19, 2012 5:53 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Fred Davis as well??

by Highspeed30 on Jan 19, 2012 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

i think they

Need to resign him. Hopefully we can structure the contract to our advantage

When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey

by Redskin44 on Jan 19, 2012 5:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Does anyone else hear that echo?

The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button

by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 19, 2012 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

echooooo

"Honey Badger Don't Care"

by ptowny on Jan 20, 2012 6:23 AM EST up reply actions  

choooo

"Honey Badger Don't Care"

by ptowny on Jan 20, 2012 6:23 AM EST up reply actions  

hoooo

"Honey Badger Don't Care"

by ptowny on Jan 20, 2012 6:24 AM EST up reply actions  

oooo

"Honey Badger Don't Care"

by ptowny on Jan 20, 2012 6:24 AM EST up reply actions  

i would say that Landry is likely gone, to much risk vs. little upside for the Skins

even if you can bring him back on the cheap for a year and he is amazing then you need to shell out the big bucks for him.

Davis i think they need to make him a fair but muted offer. Davis shouldn’t be getting top TE money.

LIcht is a RFA so he should be back. Monty is another issue though…

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Jan 19, 2012 6:43 PM EST up reply actions  

What is the problem with paying a top player top player money? Cheap is also the exact opposite of too much risk.

by Mr. E on Jan 19, 2012 7:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Who's the "top player"

In this scenario?

Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.

by CJHutch on Jan 19, 2012 7:19 PM EST up reply actions  

The hypothetical was Landry signing a cheap, 1 year deal and playing at the top of his potential, then having to re-sign him for an expensive contract.

by Mr. E on Jan 19, 2012 8:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok

Personally, I’d rather not sign him to a one year deal. If we are gonna resign him, I’d just assume use our leverage to sign him for cheaper. I have no doubt he can have a good season next year. And I have no doubt he could then end the next 2 years on IR.

Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.

by CJHutch on Jan 19, 2012 8:48 PM EST up reply actions  

the problem is he should be signed based more on his injuries than him catching lightening in a bottle and being fully healthy for a year

also Landry really hasn’t ever consistently shown top player ability. There will be flashes, but there will be a lot miscues as well. There is no way he should be getting Polumalu money or Eric Weddle money, yet that is what he’d ask for.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Jan 19, 2012 9:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Although the salary structure

you presented here seems a bit better than I initially feared, its still a lot for an unproven commodity. Id rather take a unproven rookie than unproven veteran and it would be cheaper in the long run. With these mega deals these days, if not structured properly, leads to a team being in a state in which the financial portion of it governs who plays.
I.E. high dollar free agent doesn’t work out and your basically stuck with him until financially you can back out of it. With the rookie wage scale its easier to dump them of they don’t work out….of course all depending on the deal. Let’s look at it on the bright side….Rex is so bad that any rookie or QB can come in and be average (20td’s/11 ints) and it would be a marked improvement from where we are at….kind of sad when you think about it

by Bryan Black on Jan 19, 2012 5:49 PM EST via Android app reply actions   1 recs

I voted neither

altho both would be a huge upgrade. Grubbs would be an excellent addition to the Skins, there was one play against the Texans where he was 10 -15 yards down field blocking for Rice but I am on the Nicks bandwagon, I think he is also an excellent fit (even at his size) & IMO he could kick over to RT if needed. Flynn would also be a huge upgrade but I am not sold even tho he had a great game against the Lions. I really believe that he is more of a Holmgren target than a Shanahan. If one or both were wearing B&G next year tho, I would be fine (especially Grubbs).

by ENsDad27 on Jan 19, 2012 5:59 PM EST reply actions  

thanks

Nicks at RT is interesting as he was a tackle in college. Honestly though I’d say why screw up a great thing.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Jan 19, 2012 6:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Excellent work, great read

Thanks Steve! Your posts are one of the reasons I come here every day

The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button

by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 19, 2012 6:06 PM EST reply actions  

No Flynn..

Just…. No Flynn please..

by Brutus89 on Jan 19, 2012 6:11 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Nice work Steve

Rec’d. I’ve got Nicks next week, can’t remember who Ronnie is profiling next Wednesday. But Be sure to check back for those and Steve’s salary cap breakdown next week guys.

by UkRedskin on Jan 19, 2012 6:13 PM EST reply actions  

Why would Flynn sign here over Seattle and Miami?

No one has given me a good answer to this question.

Both of those teams will be pushing for him much harder than us (they are not within range of the top guys in the draft) and their offenses at the skill positions are better as well. With Marshawn Lynch and the product they put on the field this year, I would sign there over the Redskins. With Brandon Marshall, Reggie Bush, and possible Philbin, I would sign there over the Redskins as well. WHY would the Redskins win either of those battles for Flynn?

Redskins @RGIII - 2012

by Copious 1 on Jan 19, 2012 6:15 PM EST reply actions  

Honestly I think it is because your first free agent contract

Is usually all about the money and not where you play.
It’s the second free agent contract where you start to consider other team factors depending on how successful your previous contract was.
So assuming for a moment that this is true, Washington obviously is going to win if they want to,

The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button

by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 19, 2012 6:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh i'm sure they will both be in the mix

though I know the Dolphins don’t have a ton of cap room

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Jan 19, 2012 6:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I tend to believe that Cleveland makes a hard play at Flynn

Not sure on their salary cap free space but I still think they go Flynn, trade back with us and grab Richardson with the 6th pick. Just a hunch as I believe that Cleveland is in a worse position, talent wise, than we are currently.

by Bryan Black on Jan 19, 2012 7:44 PM EST up reply actions  

see i'd say Cleveland is in a better position than us talent wise

they have two studs on their Oline, and a couple decent players. Their pass catchers might be slightly below us, but its about even. Their backs are weak if Hillis leaves, but as the Skins showed that position can be filled fairly easily.

On defense they have a pretty strong D-line and Secondary. DQwell Jackson their MLB was 2nd in the league behind Fletcher in tackles (and like Fletcher he is a FA). While I’d say they could use another pass rusher, and some OLB’’s, overall I think they are pretty well set. Also the biggest key for them is their youth. They only have 3 guys outside their kicker that are 30 or older that they rely on, and none of them are as key as say Fletcher, Atogwe, Gaffney, Cooley or Moss.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Jan 19, 2012 9:50 PM EST up reply actions  

i did

he will be the clear cut starter here. and in seattle he has to battle a healthy jackson who seemed to be getting better down the strech after the running game got going for the seahawks. and miami has a even better qb to battle.. only way he signs with either 1 of them over us is if one them over pay big time over our offer….

by munson21502 on Jan 19, 2012 7:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow, getting rid of Hall

will save us over $6 million in space under the cap, and all of the other bonus aspects (not getting torched, largemouth, etc. etc.) coupled with the fact that the best player available at number six might be a cornerback…

Looks like we might be saying bye-bye to Mr. Hall

The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button

by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 19, 2012 6:38 PM EST reply actions  

Anything can look good in a small sample size

Flynn’s two best starts
31/44 480 6td 1int 1 fumble lost 3 sacks 136 rating
24/37 251 3td 1int 1 fumble lost 5 sacks 100.2 rating

Rex’s two best starts of 2011
21/34 305 2td 0int 1 fumble lost 4 sacks 110.5 rating
25/38 292 3td (1rushing) 1int 0 fumbles lost 3 sacks 95.5 rating

Rex also comes with a 1st round pedigree while Flynn was a 7th round pick.

by Mr. E on Jan 19, 2012 7:14 PM EST reply actions  

9 TDs in two games...

Not bad.

I see it as more cushion for the pushin'

by iH8dallas on Jan 19, 2012 7:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

but it is more than that. Look at YPA, or completion %

if you watch the games you’ll see a lot more passes on the mark, etc.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Jan 19, 2012 9:51 PM EST up reply actions  

as of right now...

52% DO NOT WANT FLYNN.

(I’m just holding my own unscientific survey…..)

by jgibbsfan1 on Jan 19, 2012 7:16 PM EST reply actions  

Add one to that

My iBad won’t let me vote

Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.

by CJHutch on Jan 19, 2012 7:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I can't vote on my Android either...

I hope they fix the bug in the app

"Honey Badger Don't Care"

by ptowny on Jan 20, 2012 6:27 AM EST up reply actions  

I wonder if Tuckwell has sabotaged all smartphones...

so no one can vote “NO” on Flynn. Conspiracy theory, I think not…

by jgibbsfan1 on Jan 20, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Chris Russell of ESPN980 has a different view (if that matters)

Saw this one through the Webskins list, if anyone’s heard of that…

http://redskins.espn980.com/bloggers/chris-russell/item/391-rg-iii-is-in-do-the-redskins-want-flynn?

Our ESPN 980 Front Office NFL Insider, J.I. Halsell expects a very modest contract for a potential NFL starter, because simply — teams do not know how good Flynn will be as a starter, with limited experience. Halsell, who has had first hand experiences with contracts from both a management perspective (Redskins) and now a player agency perspective (Priority Sports) — suggests that the price for Flynn, a former 7th round pick, will be around a 2 or 3 year deal, roughly at 3 million dollars in value per year. Halsell says Flynn’s guaranteed money would be in the range of 3-4 million overall. Halsell says his draft round status has no factor or hindrance in Flynn getting a bigger contract, it is simply about a lack of playing experience – but Flynn would get paid as a “top-tier # 2 QB type deal.”

by lupin on Jan 19, 2012 8:17 PM EST reply actions  

His "management perspective experience"

Is worthless.

Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.

by CJHutch on Jan 19, 2012 8:50 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah i saw that

I respect Halsell, but I don’t know how he can expect that Flynn signs for that little. Hell Tavarias Jackson got a better deal.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Jan 19, 2012 9:52 PM EST up reply actions  

According to Rotoworld:

Citing sources inside the organization, ESPN 980 Washington’s Chris Russell reports the Redskins are “very interested” in free agent QB Matt Flynn.
ESPN’s Mel Kiper told reporters earlier in the day that “grapevine” talk suggested the Redskins didn’t have a high opinion of Flynn. Russell knows “for sure,” though, that coach Mike Shanahan and OC Kyle Shanahan had a “detailed conversation” two weeks ago on Flynn’s six-touchdown, 480-yard performance against the Lions in the regular season finale. Whereas Charley Casserly suggested Flynn wouldn’t be a good fit for the Redskins offense, one team source tells Russell the two systems are “almost the same.”

by Brutus89 on Jan 19, 2012 11:35 PM EST up reply actions  

smokescreens, smokescreens and more smokescreens.

for those wondering, the article Brutus is referring to can be found here:

http://redskins.espn980.com/bloggers/chris-russell/item/391-rg-iii-is-in-do-the-redskins-want-flynn

I think it’ safe to say nobody has any idea what Shanahan and Allen are thinking.

by TheDeepBall on Jan 20, 2012 6:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh I agree. Since when have they been here have they let on once just what the hell they’re thinking?
They do however, love to put feelers out to get people writing.

by Brutus89 on Jan 20, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

if this were true...
a 2 or 3 year deal, roughly at 3 million dollars in value per year.
guaranteed money would be in the range of 3-4 million overall

then, and only then, would I be interested. But, as Steve has already pointed out, HIGHLY UNLIKELY!!!

by jgibbsfan1 on Jan 20, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

might not have happened since Jake Delhomme originally signed with the Panthers (2/4)

by Mr. E on Jan 20, 2012 8:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Tell me this

So if the Skins dont get Flynn and they do get rid of Grossman and Beck, who do they go after in FA?

by Redskins53 on Jan 19, 2012 11:54 PM EST reply actions  

well

theismann’s leg is probably healed up by now

"Women should have three breasts - two in front and one in the back for dancing." -Al Bundy

by HankMonahan on Jan 20, 2012 1:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Wouldn't it be funny

if we ended up signing Matt Flynn to a huge, $70,000,000 contract, and then sitting at number 6, Rex Grossman III falls to us. Also, I’d rather have Grubbs and Nicks then Flynn and either guard, then we spend rounds 1-2 on Blackmon or Claiborne (Wishful thinking) and a Foles type player in the second. One and a half elite guards, TW, and Blackmon would certainly give us the conditions to groom a developmental QB, and he wouldn’t have to suffer from David Carr Syndrome.

I changed my last name to Shanahan, and now I'm the new OL Coach.

by ripST on Jan 20, 2012 12:38 AM EST reply actions  

hey

pass whatever you’re drinking or smoking over here, I have tomorrow off

"Women should have three breasts - two in front and one in the back for dancing." -Al Bundy

by HankMonahan on Jan 20, 2012 1:15 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm still in the Grubbs camp, but I just can't get myself wanting Flynn...

I still think that bringing in Grubbs and maybe Myers on the line through free agency with a playmaking wide receiver will give insert rookie quarterback here the best chance to succeed. Hopefully add a starting RT in the draft as well and we’ll compete in the East

"Honey Badger Don't Care"

by ptowny on Jan 20, 2012 6:26 AM EST reply actions  

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