We Learned A Few Things From The Playoffs
by Rodskins on Jan 18, 2012 11:17 AM EST
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PrintThe disparity between preseason tempo and scheme and the regular season's play is always night and day. Likewise, the playoffs seem to produce a different level of play than even regular season. Players find that extra burst and coaches pull the tricks out of their sleeves. Therefore, I believe we get a pure, unadulterated look at how to win in the NFL, lessons if you will:
- All year, we have been saying, maybe offense does win Championships. With the Saints, Patriots and Packers all ranking last in defense, but leading their divisions, we assumed that was the case. The fact is, you need some defense. The Patriots produced a hell of a lot of offense, yes. But it was obvious they game-planned for Tebow and the Broncos in a way that the Steelers arrogantly did not. So Redskins, draft some defensive players.
- Offensive lines also win Championships. Watching Brady and Eli stand back there as if they were both sitting on a stool completely made the difference in their games. Brady looks like a stick man, but rarely gets touched. I did some research on the Patriots line, and they have many 1st and 2nd rounders upfront. So Redskins, draft an O-lineman in round 1 or 2.
- Aaron Rogers poor performance, made Matt Flynn's opportunities look legit. Yes he had 8 dropped passes in the playoff game. But he was off. It showed me for Matt Flynn to come in and get the production he did, was not a fluke. I have taken some heat from saying trade back, pick up Flynn and get more picks, but I stand by that scenario. Matt Flynn has proven himself in the NFL and if we draft O-line, a Receiver or two to give him weapons, makes more sense than trading up for a guy who has yet to play an NFL game. So, Redskins, trade for Matt Flynn and get an O-lineman and Receiver.
- The two tightend sets are hard to defend. Can we count on Davis and Cooley to stay healthy or should we look to draft a beast as well. So, Redskins, take the extra draft pick you acquire and draft a play making tightend.
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Flynn a skin
You are so right,I say too,get flynn,get some oline help,a down the feild threat in wide receiver,and maybe some defense help for our secondary,Im begining to think,going after RG3 maybe more of a libilty,yes hes a great QB,but you have to look at the BIG picture.Hanna from OU is a great tightend,has good hands,knows how to use his body when it comes to sheilding the ball from defenseive ends too.This would put preasure on Davis to get his act together,so what do you say,LETS GET FLYNN.Shanahan is a QBs coach,look what he did with a QB out of STANDFORD,named john elway,and he became a PRO CALIBER QB.Long live captin comeback,HTTR
Why would Flynn come here over Miami and Seattle?
Both of those teams will be pushing for him much harder than us (they are not within range of the top guys in the draft) and their offenses at the skill positions are better as well. IMO opinion Flynn is a pipe dream and should stay in the pipe so Fred and TW can smoke it.
While we’re at it. Do me a favor and find me 3 more Olines that are composed of 1st and 2nd round picks drafted by their current team.
Redskins @RGIII - 2012
by Copious 1 on Jan 18, 2012 1:35 PM EST via Android app reply actions
You are right, we can learn some things from the playoffs
If we keep an open mind; and I tend to agree with your assessment of what can be learned.
I would like to add that the following seems to be an almost unbeatable combination…
Strong, balanced defense (strong upfront, play making secondary)
effective/efficient running game (being able to make positive yards in obvious run situations)
real home-field advantage (uniqueness of the stadium/playing surface and intelligent motivated fan base)
do not give the ball away or commit penalties (especially stupid penalties)
I think that all of the above are met, it really doesn’t matter who your quarterback is.
I think there is also a case that if you have a top three or five quarterback that he might be able to get away without some of the above.
This seems to be where Redskins nation is divided… those who need that top-five quarterback and those who would rather have a more complete team.
(It would be absolutely great to have both, but that would take the small miracle right now)
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
Very Well Said Skins Fan '77
And agree, I’m on the “stay at 6” or trade back, Limited FA signings as needed similar to how the Redskins did last year.
I would say…
it really doesn’t matter who your quarterback is
Is a true statement UNLESS the QB violates
do not give the ball awayand only when it’s not a litte but excessively so, See Rex Grossman!
FA & the Draft
Last year we had six draft choices and left with twelve selections in the draft. We can actually address all of our needs in this draft with the FA & the draft. We do have nineteen million under the salary cap so we have the money to spend, we are in the best position possible. We take care of the quarter-back to start with Flynn, then go after Bowe, Coslton & Meechun, get rid of some of our over the hill gang on roster, go after Grubbs & Nicks two more starters at both guard positions then hit the draft hard & trade down enough times to get six or more selections for there are a lot of sleeps out there to be awakened. We can address the corner-backs, quarterbacks of the future, tight-ends (6’6" or better for both & about 250lbs or better with good hands & speed) along with both safety positions, at least one linebacker, and defensive lineman & space-eating nose tackle. Also throw in two large wide receivers (6’5" & 240lbs or better) along with a large bruiser of a running back that can run & make people miss him when needed -(quick nimble feet). That should do it.
You forgot to mention a new place kicker
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 19, 2012 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
let's assume they are mutually exclusive
Let’s also stipulate that we can’t fill every gap in two years of drafts.
So over a 5 year period, are we better off with a franchise QB and average talent around him…or above average talent in many key positions and an average QB.
I think that is the $64,000 question. That being said…I don’t think they are actually mutually exclusive over a 3-5 year time frame.
It is about having you QB play at a high level
I feel the Redskins need some stability at the Quaterback position, there have been 3 different starting QB’s to start the season in the last 3 years and it will hopefully be 4 this upcoming season. I do not think you have to have a “elite” type QB to win in the NFL, however i do believe you need a QB to play at a high level 2 to 1 touchdown to int ratio, be able to get the ball downfield, pick up first downs to keep drives alive, make smart decisions with the football, make plays when they are there to be made and keep the defense honest. so that is a top 10-12 type of QB. there should be no divide about the greatest need for the Redskins is QB
Are you serious?
after all the things you’ve seen in the playoffs that have proven you wrong firsthand, you STILL believe it’s all about the QB? Are you really so stubborn? It is not about the QB!
I keep trying to steer people who get off on high-scoring football that is quarterback centric
Towards Arena league football; because that’s what they really would be happy with.
The NFL playoffs to me are about things like
The frozen tundra
the fog at soldier Field
And I find games that are dominated by defense much more suspenseful than games that end 47–46 (you might as well watch basketball, both come down to who has the the ball last– why do you need to wait one hour for the suspense to begin?)
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 18, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
What have we seen to negate this?
We have seen Aaron Rodgers beat. Ok…did he play against a mediocre….or even above average QB?
Here is what else we saw. An elite QB keep a team in the game with 5 turnovers.
The most questionable QBs all have lost (Dalton, Yates, Tebow).
The one team with a hobbled QB lose.
And the team with a QB playing way above his prior standard win (Smith).
after all the things you’ve seen in the playoffs that have proven you wrong firsthand, you STILL believe it’s all about the QB
What are the "things you are referring to?
How about
Joe flacco’s performances?
And I maintain that Alex Smith was not anywhere near as good in that game as the numbers said he was.
Just to be clear...
you are suggesting that the performance of Joe Flacco against TJ Yates proves…
well…let me stop there…what does that teach us about the value of QBs in the playoffs? I don’t want to put words in your mouth.
A good place to start would be whether you believe Matt Schaub would or would not have made a difference in a game where Yates threw 3 TDs…if you so choose…
My point is
Joe Flacco has never been a very good QB and if this article is anything to go by he’s actually regressed, and yet his record is 44-20 and his team is in the championship. My point is, of the 4 remaining QBs in the playoffs only 2 of them are even good.
2 of them are top 5 elite and Alex Smith was top 10 QB this season. Flacco got to play against TJ Yates and his lack of turnovers were the difference even though the Texans vastly outplayed them on the O-line and D-line. Last weekend was just further proof that QB matters the most of any single position but it is not everything.
Top 10 in what?
QB Rating? That’s only because Harbaugh doesn’t give him the opportunity to mess up. His rating is the product of the scheme, not his own play. His whopping 3100 yards and 17 TDs is good for 19th in the league and 17th in the league. His yards per completion is good for 17th in the league. He also turned the ball over 10 times. He is average.
Flacco’s matchup against the Texans does not change the fact that they swept the supposedly elite Ben Roethlisberger and won enough games to make it to the playoffs in a division that saw 2 other teams go to the playoffs as well – possibly the toghest division in the league – even though Flacco is well below average in all aspects of Quarterback play.
We have seen 3 top 5 QBs knocked out of the playoffs already, 2 of whom were knocked out by QBs who weren’t as good.
The QB has the biggest effect on a team
whether it is positively or negatively but QB is the most important position on the field. If your QB throws ints you will probably lose that game, if he throws touchdowns and dont turn the ball over you have a good chance at winning the game. Alex Smith made plays to win the game, Eli Manning made plays to win the game and Tom Brady made plays to win the game, only Flacco did not make any big plays to win, T.J Yates did not make plays and his team lost cause of mistakes he made if Schaub was playing they would have won the game. Denver is a complete team but bad QB play is why they are home watching Tebow was 9/26 136 yards cant win no SB like that
Disagree, coaching has the biggest effect on a team on game day
I find it interesting that you don’t mention Drew Brees in your argument… did he not make plays?
What is your explanation for the Saints loss?
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 18, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
Was poor coaching the reason for Grossman's numerous turnovers?
Talent and coaching wins games.
Redskins @RGIII - 2012
by Copious 1 on Jan 18, 2012 2:40 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Was constant pressure and getting hit 100+ times a cause for some of Grossman's INTs?
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
Yes and I think the blame for that
Lies in on overall lack of talent on the offensive line… both starters and reserves.
Grossman also hangs onto the ball too long every once in a while
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 18, 2012 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Fair, but pressure was not the cause of a lot of his turnovers.
You could blame the fumbles on pressure too, but after watching Manning, Brees, and Rodgers go down numerous times and hold onto the ball, I’m hedging my bet that Grossman is just a ball security nightmare line or no line.
Redskins @RGIII - 2012
No one had the expectations of Rex as being comparable to Manning/Brees/Rodgers
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
I think that is a pretty basic expectation.....
“Get sacked and hold onto the ball.” Not fumbling the ball on a sack should not be a skill exclusive to the elite QB. #SMH@Rex
Redskins @RGIII - 2012
You are correct sir
We had another quarterback with the same damn problem, wait… make that two others
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 18, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Uh, that would mean that every team every year he was under constant pressure?
He is what he is and many of his int’s were without pressure
by Bryan Black on Jan 18, 2012 5:32 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
The reason for Grossman's numerous turnovers
Is in effect coaching… by way of the fact that he cannot teach Rex to not make stupid throws. (I am not defending Grossman, he is un– coachable in this regard
I agree, talent and coaching wins games-in the case of the Redskins, one person is responsible for both, I’m still not sure how that is working out.
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 18, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
I agree Coaching is the reason why Rex have so many turnovers
Cause you should not call so many pass plays when you know Rex is gonna give it up
Good point
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 19, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
New Orleans...5 turnovers
And yet it took a drive with less than a minute left to beat them.
It seems to me that Brees is an argument in favor of the value of an elite QB, not one against one.
2 of those TOs
were the fault of brees himself. You could make the argument that he lost that game for them by throwing those picks.
Drew Brees put his team in position to win
After all that adversity the Saints went through being down the whole game and 5 turnovers Brees mad plays to win the game, but Alex Smith had the ball last and made more plays to win, you can talk all you want about the 49ers defense won the game and they did this and did that but when they needed a stop up 5 points they gave up a touchdown in 34 seconds. so the 49ers needed Smith in order to win they needed him to make the reads he made and the throws he made.
and if the team as a whole was better
especially the Defense and Special Teams, they certainly would have won.
But the 49ers had them outmatched in those 2 phases of the game, and won because of it.
Defense and special teams could not stop the Saints from scoring in 34 seconds
Alex Smith won them the game with the plays he made. He brought them back twice in the last 5 mins. all of the effort that the defense put in was out of the window when they scored with 34 seconds, and the defense was on the sideline hoping Alex smith was able to pull the win out for them
by Highspeed30 on Jan 18, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Vernon Davis won them the game with the plays he made. He brought them back twice in the last 5 mins. all of the effort that the defense put in was out of the window when they scored with 34 seconds, and the defense was on the sideline hoping the offense was able to pull the win out for them
Fixed that for you.
you are in denial
If Smith checks it down and throw to a back out the backfield Vernon Davis does not have the chance to make a play. If a Qb misses a wide open receiver that Wr can not score period
so simply making the choice
to throw to the guy who HAPPENS to break free for a TD makes him a good QB? No. No, it doesn’t.
I said he played at a High level
no ints, no fumbles and he threw 2 touchdowns and ran for one. Like i said he played at a high level.
Did I miss something?
I thought Pittsburgh, Denver and Houston had some of the top Defenses in the league? Did I get that wrong?
All year, we have been saying, maybe offense does win Championships. With the Saints, Patriots and Packers all ranking last in defense, but leading their divisions, we assumed that was the case. The fact is, you need some defense. The Patriots produced a hell of a lot of offense, yes. But it was obvious they game-planned for Tebow and the Broncos in a way that the Steelers arrogantly did not. So Redskins, draft some defensive players.
If so, this isn’t really proof of anything? That being said, I think you can’t win without a reasonable defense…of the 3 teams left, only NE winning would disprove that theory, and some even attempt to say their defense isn’t that bad.
quit twisting the knife...
excellent point. To win the SB, you need BOTH, a top 10 defense and a top 10 QB.
Or lucky…
We can’t rely on that
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 18, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
Their Defense is only bad
if you’re looking in terms of yards allowed. Only idiots use Yards allowed as the measure of a Defense.
Regarding 2 TE sets...you need to have the athletes to
make both a mismatch and a least one that can block. Chris may no longer meet that criteria.
What I think is interesting is that we will now likely start seeing larger safeties or more mobile LBs to eliminate this disadvantage. But in the short term, team like the Pats will be a bit of a nightmare.
GET A GOOD QB AND A GOOD WR
It would be great to get RG3 and the wide reciever i think his name is kendall wright from baylor as well . I know we wont get both of them but as far as wide recievers i would take wright over blackmond any day . Hey parks get out the stick beating the horse again because we need RG3 more than matt flynn we need a mobile QB that can scramble if he gets into trouble not flynn . I would not even consider flynn at all because he has been playing behind a team a few times that had a great offense unlike our offense that has a hard time protecting our QB , so bringing flynn in would be a waste of time . We need to stop this merry go round at coaches and QBs positions and just maybe we might have a decent team for once in over 20 years.
We have drafted defensive players
lots of them.
"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
You need both
I don’t know why we phrase this discussion as an either or. To be successful you need a good team. You need a good QB, and good playmakers, and a good pass rush, a good secondary, a good linebacker core, and a good special teams. While it does help to look at the other successful teams in the league and how they got their, they should be used merely as a guide, not a precise example. I promise you that if the Redskins win a superbowl it will be because we had a good/great team.
To get a good team you draft good/great players, its that simple. Last year the packers had one of the best defenses. Alex Smith was top 10 in QB rating this year. The jets had a top 5 D, and a great O-line yet they struggle. A year ago San Diego had the best offense and defense yet they didn’t make the playoffs. Were arguing that you only need an avg QB, ignoring the fact that a team like the Ravens had a the best defense ever. We also ignore the fact that three teams still in the playoffs thought that the QB position was important enough to spend a first round pick, and two of those teams used the 1st pick in the draft on a QB. While the 4th team has one of the greatest QB’s ever.
We need both, and as long as we don’t have both, the skins will have too big of a weakness to win a championship.
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