I have been told that you need an elite qb to compete for super bowls
by skinsdad62 on Jan 17, 2012 8:22 PM EST
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I have been told this over and over by people favoring a trade up for RG3 . That you have to have an elite passer to compete for super bowls . Well we have 2 qbs that arent elite passers by any stretch of the imagination in Alex Smith and Joe Flacco . You can win if you have a decent run game and a strong defense with a qb who can not make mistakes (or limits them) and make a play or 2 if its there.
Does it really matter if the defense carries him ? or the running game or his wrs or te? The short answer is no but we have a fan base that "is tired of avg qb's " and cant wait , be smart and let the best choice come to us at a reasonable price .
The redskins front office should explore every option they have on the table . We should look at Flynn . Why not ? He is better the Beck or Rex . Now does that mean he is a savior riding in on his white horse to save us all ? NO , but can he stabilize the position until we can make a run at a "franchise QB " perhaps in 2013 .
We should look at every qb in free agency from Cassell , Kolb , Sanchez , Orton because they are better the what we have . Tell me how we can win if the QB position turns the ball over 31 times ? If either of those qbs cut that number in half, how many wins does that get us ?
We could go after Peyton Manning when he becomes a free agent . (No we dont trade for him !) . Now I know somebody will say he is too old to be a savior and they would be right . Some would say he neck is too much of a risk . I say what sane NFL team would aquire Manning without having half the free worlds doctors look him over ? If his health cant be verified the simply move on .
My thing is this , if you cant get RG3 at a reasonable price , then you have to move on . The browns can outbid us anyway you want to look at it and there comes a time where you cant make a deal without seriously damaging the future
MY alternate strategy would be to sign a free agent veteran and draft a qb in round 2 if the value is there . I would also draft a qb late as well . I would put as many play makers on the offense as i can and look to the 2013 draft for the "franchise guy " if needed.
Gutting the next 2 drafts for the qb runs the risk of us being Sam Bradford and the Rams . Free agency can fill some needs but in 2013 you will have to use 90% of the cap space in a year so free agent money could be at a premium . You would be looking at keeping guys like Jamal Brown on the team because you cant afford the dead cap space .
We will know in the next few months what the qb situation will be in free agency ,and how our needs are addressed I dont see the need to get in a bidding war for a rookie QB when we are under strength .
Redskins nation needs to be smart and let the team make the best use of the resources we have instead of being the Snyderatto's that we have bashed for the past 2 decades .
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Elite QBs certaintly help and can hide a lot of weaknesses
ie.
Brady and his 32nd ranked D
Petyon and w/o him their team is drafting 1st overall
@Callahan_9 on the twitter machine.
32nd in yards allowed
But 15th in points allowed and 3rd in turnovers forced. Suddenly their D doesn’t sound so horrible does it?
I think the yards allowed stat is a load of shit, personally.
Wait? What?
The Redskins were a top 10 D under Greggg/Blache? At least that’s what I heard and the stat everyone used and so does the NFL is YDs allowed. I agree the two most important stats for a D is pts allowed and TOs forced.
@Callahan_9 on the twitter machine.
They were.
Our D was excellent back then, allowing only 16.6 points per game. The problem was that the Redskins Offense struggled to put up 15 points a game. if they had even an average offense*** they would’ve been serious contenders in the Playoffs.
average offense does not in any way imply good QB. The entire offense was a wreck.
by TheDeepBall on Jan 17, 2012 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
let me respond by beginning with an obvious...
OF COURSE, SB are won by TEAMS, not single players.
Ok, now that that is out of the way, a teams chances of winning divisions, going to the playoffs, and having a chance at a SB, dramatically improve with great QB play. Even Alex Smith has played this year as one who finally put it together (don’t know if Haurbaugh had everything to do with it), and it was his play that won the game against N.O. (defense gave up 32 points). We all agree that GB’s defense was horrid, so how did they get to 15-1? In a tough division? N.E. defense is average at best (low ranking yards allowed, middle of the pack points allowed / turnovers), yet there they are.
NO ONE IS SAYING THAT IT IS THE ONLY THING YOU NEED!!! But, I sure would like to have a franchise guy to be proud of.
Also, most of these guys being mentioned, aka Flynn, is nothing more than change for change sake. So many have commented that Shanahan should not draft a QB for need sake, but signing anyone in the Flynn category is just signing for change sake. If I had to choose between the two, I would rather draft a guy. At least we would be able to train him from the start. The only exception to that would be Peyton Manning, if he were to become available.
It was hardly alex's play that won that game for them.
Their defense got them the ball on a short field 4 times. Vernon Davis broke a tackle as he was catching his first TD pass to run 60 yards to the end zone. Vernon Davis also had a spectacular catch in the end zone at the end while taking a hit to secure the victory.
I don’t know if you watched the game but some of the passes Alex threw were painful to watch. Absolute floaters. Only his receivers’ (and Tight End’s) athleticism (and the Saints poor pass coverage) saved him.
by TheDeepBall on Jan 17, 2012 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
Why are you trying to take away from Alex Smith's performance???
You have to take your hat off to Alex Smith cause without his play the 49ers would have lost the game period. After taking a 5 point lead with 2:11 left in the game the 49ers left the game up to its defense but Brees and the Saints went down and scored in 34 seconds. So Smith had to make some plays, he hit Vernon Davis like 3 times on that drive taking advantage of man coverage. and to try and diminish his play is absurd, T.J Yates did not play at a high level and his team was eliminated
by Highspeed30 on Jan 17, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
TJ Yates
is the perfect example of how a team with exceptional talent can succeed without a superstar at QB. I mean, the Texans made the playoffs with a 5th round rookie QB starting for them.
But to answer your question, to look at the numbers and go “man that was a great performance” is short-sighted and shallow. I take away from his performance because the one who should get most of the credit for it is Vernon Davis. He also had a short field to work with most of the time because of the 49ers’ elite Defense. And if you watched the game, his receivers bailed him out a lot.
Plus, for all the short fields his Defense set him up with, you would think the 49ers would be able to get into the end zone a few more times than they did.
by TheDeepBall on Jan 17, 2012 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
Nice try but
The Texans was 8-3 when Yates took over, and he was 2-3 as a starter, and the point is Yates had 2 chances to get a game tying drive but came up empty twice, and Alex Smith brought his team back twice, they took the lead 29-24 with 2:11 left and had an emotional let down when the Saints scored but still maintained and lead his team on a game winning drive. If Yates started for the Texans the whole year they would have went 6-10 or 7-9 at best
by Highspeed30 on Jan 18, 2012 12:34 AM EST up reply actions
He was 3-3
at least get your facts straight.
you still have not shown me how any of that was because of Alex Smith. Just because he was out there doesn’t mean he led his team, and Vernon Davis had to make a fantastic catch for the TD. I maintain that the guy who won that game for them is Vernon Davis.
by TheDeepBall on Jan 18, 2012 12:52 AM EST up reply actions
2-3 in the regular season
and 1-1 in playoffs so 3-4 total
by Highspeed30 on Jan 18, 2012 12:56 AM EST up reply actions
HE HAD TO MAKE THE READ AND THE THROW!!!!
like i said Yates had the same chance as smith did and he threw a int by Ed Reed. Smith had a 102.3 QB rating and you still tryna debate he did not play at a high level and that it was all Vernon Davis…. he did not throw it to himself. Smith could have checked it down or threw it away, or took a sack, or as Yates did throw a int
Well then
I suppose all of Matt Flynn’s 480 yard 6 TD performance against the Lions can be attributed solely to him because he made the read and the throw? Which would mean he’s a great QB. Guess we should sign him then,
Uh, who threw him the ball?
by Bryan Black on Jan 18, 2012 9:07 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Hey, Hail Mary...
you’re right, Smith had a short field to work with. Special teams were responsible for some of that, not defense, but I give credit to SF defense, it played great.
They still gave up 32 points and the lead with 2 minutes left. It was Smith who drove the team down the field twice to win the game. My point is this, WITH a great defense, and all the turnover benefits, Smith still had to make the plays to WIN the game; the QB. If they did not have Smith, do they win the game? Or 12 wins (or 13, can’t remember)?
Granted, that defense was going to win them games, but not 13. They have a good combination of QB play / defense, they have the chance to win the SB.
hilarious.
They have a good combination of QB play / defense
Smith had mediocre completion percentage of 57% this game, and 61% in the regular season. He also clocks in at dead center (16th) in the league in yards per attempt, in spite of the weapons they have on offense. He only threw for 3,100 yards this season.
These numbers are the very definition of average. Yeah, he had a 103.2 rating, but (and correct me if I’m wrong) he got the ball on the Saints’ side of the field 4 times and only came away with the touchdown once. Sound familiar? Vernon Davis making a fantastic play and breaking a tackle for 60 YAC and a TD does NOT qualify as good QB play. Smith only did what he was supposed to do. Just because Smith gets credit for it does not mean it was actually because of him. Hell, if throwing poorly and relying on your receivers makes you a good QB, then screw trading up let’s take Blackmon in the 1st, Jeffries or Floyd in the 2nd, and BPA at WR RB or TE in the 3rd! And suddenly, Rex will turn into a good quarterback. Problem solved!
Do you get it yet? It literally does not matter who was throwing the ball to Vernon Davis last week, because Davis was the one making the plays, not the QB.
by TheDeepBall on Jan 18, 2012 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
in your passionate reply...
you seem to disregard what I am saying. So, let me clarify.
I AM NOT saying Smith is an elite, franchise QB. I would not tag Joe Flacco as franchise QBs. My point is this – even with those teams great defenses, their chances are greatly diminished if they do not have QBs making plays. This weekend, Flacco is going to have to win it for them. NE is NOT going to let Rice run all over the place, like he did a couple of years ago against them.
If you had to pick one of the team, putting your confidence in them, would you select Brady, with their average defense or Flacco, with their elite defense. My confidence would be with NE, because I value the QB more. Other guys, like you and Stephan, don’t. No problem, it is a philosophical difference.
Of course any of us would rather have Brady over Smith or Flacco
I’m FOR having an elite QB. I just simply believe the Redskins will be benefited more in the long term by securing extra picks in the 2012 and 2013 drafts to fully rebuild this team, rather than trade away resources for RG3.
by StephanHart on Jan 18, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
This is it:
NO ONE IS SAYING THAT IT IS THE ONLY THING YOU NEED!!! But, I sure would like to have a franchise guy to be proud of.
You want a franchise face at QB, even if it means not having a solid team around that franchise player. This isn’t about hopes and dreams, its about building a young, talented football team.
by StephanHart on Jan 18, 2012 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
I think the point is getting a franchise QB is more difficult than finding other
pieces through other means. So GMs tend to take advantage of those opportunities believing they will build their teams through FA and future drafts.
it is the reason Peyton Manning, Sam Bradford, Matt Stafford, Matt Ryan etc were drafted before all of the pieces were in place.
QBs, all QBs are better with a better team around them.
And your examples don’t fit. Peyton is perhaps the best QB in the history of the league, and they surrounded him with a solid team, and Bradford, Stafford, and Ryan haven’t won a damn thing in this league.
he saying they was the center piece
Those teams drafted a QB first overall, in fact 11 of the last 14 drafts featured a QB being picked 1st overall which shows the importance of the position. Nobody is saying you dont need other pieces, or you dont need defense but you do need a QB to play at a high level. if your QB is a turnover machine i dont care how good the rest of the team is that team will not win. can u agree with that??
BTW, if you dispute the importance of a franchise guy...
as your sarcastic title would bear, then your perspective is narrow, disregarding the facts. We may not all agree of who we should get to QB this team next year, but, please, anyone who wants to say that we don’t need a franchise guy is dilussional.
Alex Smith's can get you to
the playoffs, true. Brady’s and Rogers’ get you there consistently.
by Bryan Black on Jan 17, 2012 11:11 PM EST via Android app reply actions
look at the exceptional talent surrounding those QBs.
Now look at our team, and tell me Brady or even Rodgers would cruise to 13-3 or 15-1 here like they did in NE and GB.
by TheDeepBall on Jan 17, 2012 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
I dont think NE has superior talent than we do. I think each guy plays there part to a T
And you are picking teams with establish QBs, and cultures… How long has McCarthy been in GB or Belichik in NE… Players that play there only know the Patriots/Packers/Steelers/Ravens way and its philosophy has been proven with Super Bowls.
I dont think NE has superior talent than we do.
Pure delusion.
Players that play there only know the Patriots/Packers/Steelers/Ravens way and its philosophy has been proven with Super Bowls.
Yes, because most of them were drafted by that team. If we spend all of our picks to move up how will we be following the Pats/Packers/Steelers/Ravens formula for success?
by TheDeepBall on Jan 18, 2012 12:45 AM EST up reply actions
Pats
>An elite OL
>1 elite TE in Gronk and one excellent TE in Hernandez
>A fantastic Possession receiver in Wes Welker
>Deep threats with Branch and the athlete formerly known as Chad Johnson.
>A decent but not great RB.
>A defense that is 15th in points allowed and 3rd in turnovers forced.
VS.
The Redskins
> An average to bad OL (with a pothead anchoring it, to boot)
> An aging WR corps with no playmakers
>A good TE in Fred Davis (also, unfortunately, a pothead) and a good TE in Cooley, when healthy.
>A promising rookie at RB
> A Defense that is 21st ranked in Points Allowed and bottom 10 in turnovers forced (too lazy to do the math atm)
I think it is obvious that there is a monumental difference in talent between the teams.
Here's an interesting article
Even Flacco’s own teammates don’t think he’s very good. And yet, they’re in the AFC Championship.
Moreover, the Ravens are holding off on re-signing him.
by StephanHart on Jan 18, 2012 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
isn't it hilarious
that this is a guy some people on here are trying to say he’s good QB? He’s practically the definition of mediocrity.
by TheDeepBall on Jan 18, 2012 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
I think you missed the point in the post
You can win if you have a decent run game and a strong defense with a qb who can not make mistakes (or limits them) and make a play or 2 if its there
We have had THIS is the past. Where did it take us? One or two playoff wins in 20 years. Point is, we have NEVER, at least while I’ve been a fan, which is almost 30 years, had an elite QB…………….NEVER.
Think it would hurt to give it a shot?
Crying Lion
It depends
on how we give it shot. Trading up? Yeah, it’ll probably hurt. Staying at 6 wouldn’t be so bad.
I dont believe the Redskins need a elite QB
But I do think they need at least a Good QB to win. the whole point is they have had a bunch of bums playing QB the last 2 decades and i dont think there is any denying that it is fact. They have had less than average type QB’s playing for them and a few average guys, but never anybody that was good a top 10 type QB.
Every team needs an elite QB
problem is they dont grow on trees
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
Correction:
Every team needs would be better off with an elite QB
by StephanHart on Jan 18, 2012 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
exactly
Ravens, Texans, Broncos, Bengals, 49ers were/are playing in the off-season and don’t have an elite QB playing. Alex Smith is playing like an Elite QB this year but only for the 1st time in his career. I don’t think that makes you elite.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
If I knew
I’d have another job. But it shouldn’t be too hard given that we won Super Bowls with two of those (Rypien and Williams) and went to another with Kilmer. I know the league has changed and is pass happy but even this year proves that Elite QB’s can fail to get their team to the next round.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
I don't believe this year has proved what you think it proved...
Brady and Eli are still there (and Brees would have been here if not for an incredible / miraculous drive by Smith).
we have had this tiller ?
by whom ? JC ? we have had avg qbs who wouldnt pull the trigger when needed , Brunnell , when we had him cold make plays? very rarely could he ramsey ? mathews? any other spurier qb ?
and as stated above joe flacco is 4 for 4 in playoff appearances so how is that not consistency ?
i have been told we live in the era of needing an elite qb . sure it helps no doubt about that to have one
now tell me tiller , what franchise qb are we getting in the draft ? what are we going to do about 31 turnovers from our qbs ?
someone above said he didnt want to change qbs for the sake of change . well of course you are changing qbs because the ones on our roster cant keep you competitive
Great teams
can get away with “game managing” types of quarterbacks. Franchise quarterbacks (IMO) elevate the play of the players around them.
We “can” be successful wihout a franchise guy, if all the other cards fall right (draft picks work out, the right free agent signing, limited injuries, etc. etc.).
As we have seen over the course of the last 20 years, those other cards have not fallen right, and even though we “seem” to be on a better course, the franchise quarterback can mitigate the other components not working as well as the front office, coaches, anticipate.
Forget about just challenging
Look at the QBs that have actually won Superbowls, all but 2 (Johnson & Dilfer) over the last 20 years have been what you would consider elite QBs or were playing at that level at the time.
The QB isn’t everything but more often than not it’s the difference between the good and the great teams.
Alright you got me there
but like with the other 2 less than great QBs he had a great defense. The point still stands that these average QBs may be acceptable to a point but they don’t put you over the top without having a great team around them unlike a great QB who can make the rest of the team better.
Aiming to get a top QB is a must and if the coaches decide they need to make some big moves for that guy then so be it.
Actually
for the last 15 years (and probably longer) all but 3 of the league’s Super Bowl winners had a defense in the top 7 in points allowed, and all but 3 also were in the top 10 (often top 5) in Turnovers Forced. They have almost all had great Defenses.
by TheDeepBall on Jan 18, 2012 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
ok how about brady ?
are you telling me he was a franchise qb in his 1st superbowl ?
also his 1st 2 NE pats defenses were ranked 1 and 2 respectively
now of course we should aim for an elite qb and if we pass on one the staff should be fired
what i am saying is we are likely to not have a shot at the elite guys in this draft and that it isnt the end of the world
The QB position is Very Competitive
Think about all the Qb’s in the league, and really ask yourself how the Redskins can get a top 10 qb without giving up something.
No Specific Order
Brees, Rodgers, Brady, P. Manning, E. Manning, Schaub, Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Romo.
You also have to find room for Cutler, Stafford, and Vick.
Not to mention young Qb’s like Newton, Freeman, Gabbert, Locker, and Ponder who were all drafted in the first round.
Having a top 10 Qb is simply not an easy thing. I understand your preference for playing it conservative, but your counter proposal seems like a simple stop gap measure. What are the chances that the veteran QB or 2nd round Qb are the answer to our Qb problems. What are the chances that those picks we keep all turn out to be above average players.
I feel like with your plan, 2-3 years from now we find ourselves in the same exact position.
by bigmikeemike09 on Jan 18, 2012 10:34 AM EST reply actions
Answer
What are the chances that the veteran QB or 2nd round Qb are the answer to our Qb problems?
Well since about half of the QB’s you listed (you cant count the rookies) were drafted outside of the 1st round, or not drafted at all (Romo), I’d say 50/50
by StephanHart on Jan 18, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
Actually....only 3 were in reality...and one was missed by everyone
and turned into one of the top 5 QBs of all time.
Brady, Schaub, Romo.
Brees was drafted 32, which is first round now that we have 32 teams.
That isn’t half. It is 3 of 18.
that doesn't work
even if you had an expansion team that year, they wouldn’t have taken Brees at 1 overall, and every other team passed on him once. Therefore he still would’ve gone in the 2nd round.
That is not known....
You are assuming that one of the teams choosing a QB later would not have selected Brees if their top pick wasn’t available because of the extra pick.
Regardless, it is a moot point. Brees was one of the first 32 people chosen, in other words, and early QB pick. Even if one were to make him a second rounder…that is 4-18…not exactly a point that changes the invalidity of the earlier statement.
Brees was the 2nd QB off the board that year
it was the first pick of the 2nd rd, but Aaron Rodgers was the 24th pick the year he was drafted and also the 2nd QB off the board. Brees was considered to be the 2nd most talented Qb in that draft
Expectations
I was not counting elite QB’s. I was counting the teams who think they have found their Franchise QB. This just shows how competitive it is to be a top 10 Qb.
by bigmikeemike09 on Jan 18, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Answer
What are the chances that the veteran QB or 2nd round Qb are the answer to our Qb problems?
Well since about half of the QB’s you listed (you cant count the rookies) were drafted outside of the 1st round, or not drafted at all (Romo), I’d say 50/50
what are the chances a vet qb or a 2nd rounder be the answer to our problems ?
I think the question your asking is the wrong one
the question should be what do we do when luck and RG3 go off the board ?
if the browns want RG3 they can get him and out bid us at will
how far do you want to go to get either one of them ? do you ricky williams 2 drafts ?
believe me you will overpay for one of them and by a lot to ensure you get the pick
as for the vet /2nd rounder my answer would be 50-50 . brady, brees romo shaub arent 1st round picks and neither was dalton
I don't understand this point
Gutting the next 2 drafts for the qb runs the risk of us being Sam Bradford and the Rams . Free agency can fill some needs but in 2013 you will have to use 90% of the cap space in a year so free agent money could be at a premium . You would be looking at keeping guys like Jamal Brown on the team because you cant afford the dead cap space .
The Rams didn’t trade for Sam Bradford?
The Lions drafted Stafford high and they were terrible in his second year, like Bradford.
The difference was there other draft picks and FA signings.
I am not sure how the Rams relate to the point you are attempting to make?
The difference was there other draft picks and FA signings.
trading up for RG3 means we won’t have other draft picks.
by TheDeepBall on Jan 18, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
this isn't the last draft the Redksins will participate in and even
if they trade, I suspect Allen and Shanahan will believe they can identify players with their remaining picks the next 2 drafts…
the point about sam bradford and the rams is
you have your franchise qb in place but you cant put weapons around him . no the rams didnt trade up etc . however they havent put weapons in place around him either and he could be heading to acrhie manningdom
now in our case if you gut 2 drafts you risk having a franchise qb in place but no weapons around him
Stop saying you would Not have other draft picks if you trade up
Since nobody know what a trade up will be in picks for 100% there is no way to evaluate what it cost. The Market will change between now and April, some teams that need a QB wont need a QB cause of FA. If the deal was gonna cost as much as the Ricky Williams or Herschel Walker deal than it would be too much the Walker deal was 3 1st rd and 2nd rd and a 3rd i believe. nobody is doing that type of deal.
I would be comfortable with swapping firsts
And throwing in our fourth from the Oakland Raiders, and one of our sixth round selections
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 18, 2012 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
You are living in a dream world Neo!!!
that is not enough value to move up. When I say what you are comfortable with i mean within reason and something that is realistic.
Let’s say Shanny and son fall in love with Griffin III and they want him to be the Franchise QB and they need to trade up to get him what would be a fair deal or a deal that you could live with knowing you gave up something?
Hey, that is why I am comfortable with
I know it is not enough to move up and that is why I am against it. At least I have a number in my head. (Although now that I think about it, I think that pic from the Raiders was last year)
And if Shanahan absolutely has to have Griffin, then he can make any deal he wants, he is the general manager. If he overspends and it cost him his job, then it is his own fault
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Jan 18, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
Its not that Complicated
You decide how valuable Griffin or Luck is to you. Then you translate that value into picks/players. Then you offer given trade, if the trade is turned down you move on. Can you win a championship with a solid QB who doesn’t turn the ball over yes. But ask your self what is harder to find, 11 players to create the best defense ever, and an amazing running attack, or a good QB. I would argue that even if we traded down every draft, there is a good chance that we may never accomplish those two things.
Now that does not mean, we mortgage our entire future for a QB. It just means you need to look at it under the right context. If your a GM/Head Coach, and you have a guy you really like you take him. I have no problem if Allen and Shanahan fall in love with Foles or Tannehill and trade down and pick him over RG3.
So its simply, is a 2012 1st and 3rd and a 2013 1st and 3rd/4th too much for the Skins. Looking at the value of Luck/Griffin, I would say no. Obviously if you don’t like Griffin or Luck you’ll probably say yes. If were waiting to find our Franchise Qb in the six round ala Tom Brady, or in Free agency ala Brees, or Schaub. We could be waiting for a very long time. Most teams draft their franchise QB’s in the first round.
the browns can and will outbid us
lets look at the above proposed deal . 2012 1st and 3rd and a 2013 1st 3rd and 4th
you dont think the browns can easily beat that with a swap of 2012 1st and the additional 2012 1st they own ? then add 2nds and 3rds to counter our other offers ?
and each cleveland pick is higher then ours . so how far do you go ?
cleveland can offer the same excact package as you propose and if i am the rams i take the browns offer because their picks are higher
that is how i get to ricky williamsing 2 drafts to secure him . how far do you go to get him and what do you have left to put talent around him ?
that little thing called a cap will hit home in 2013 and you simply cant sign good free agents to one year deals and hope you can move along
yes most teams draft thier qb in the 1st round however open your eyes and look at the market . all of your preconceived notions dont apply
You don't go over your value
I would say that you offer the Rams/Vikings the best deal you can if they turn it down you move on. If you think a truck is worth 20,000 dollars but the dealer is charging 30,000 then you obviously don’t buy the truck. I agree with you, we can’t sacrifice the future of the entire team for one player that would make no sense. Would I like to have a franchise QB yes, would I prefer my franchise QB to be drafted in the first round yes, does he have to be no. I don’t care where we draft Tom Brady if we we get him. All I know is a lot of teams with QB’s drafted in the first round are successful. Were both saying the same thing.
by bigmikeemike09 on Jan 19, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
First and Foremost the Brown aint trading up!!!!
I can not stress this enough, they dont need to trade up because 1st they draft before the Skins and will be able to take him without moving and secondly thye would be just fine if Justin Blackmon fell to them at 4 as well. So everyone talking about the Browns outbidding the Skins aint gonna happen. the Browns need playmakers in fact if RG3 is there @ 4 they would be willing to trade down with the Redskins.
If the Redskins was in their position i would stand pat too cause i got teh 4th and 22 picks in first round and can get two legit playmakers for my offense no need to trade cause Blackmon would be rated about as high to them as RG3, they got a young QB already they can give another year to look at . and Trent Richardson will also be there cause Hillis is a free agent
Gonna be a long off season with idiots like this author.
Love how people like the one who started this thread are quick to say “be smart and agree with me or your like Snyder”. when all he says stinks of the Cerratto/Snyder era. Go for that quick fix and get Manning or a free agent or draft guys late like Campbell or Colt Brennon. If you dont want to be like Snyder you do what it takes to get a franchise Qb and not settle for another teams back up or washed up Vet or late round guys who never amount to anything. The Bradys are very very very rare. There are not 32 people in the world who can be a franchise NFL QB. When you have a chance to get a guy who has a good chance to be one of the few.You go get him.
when did i say go for a quick fix ?
i do not advocate getting a quick fix and i am sorry if it came across this way . i gave a list of options and went through them
my strategy would be sign a free agent vet, and draft a qb in round 2
until anyone can convince me that the browns cant outbid us then RG 3 likely will be gone at this point hence you need to look elsewhere
and of course the browns will have to move up to get RG3 because several teams will talk to the rams and will try to make a deal hence they would have to enter discussions of a trade
and again kevinjames how far do you go to get RG3 ? you name your price and then i will counter it for the browns
The Browns are NOT going to trade up
why do you believe that the browns will move up to get RG3? they gave the keys to Colt McCoy this season without a full offseason and no weapons, Hillis was hurt for most of the season and will be a free agent (Trent Richardson), and they would love to add a playmaker like Blackmon to their offense so why would they move up? they can get a guy like Blackmon or Richardson at 4 and fill another whole at #22
It dont make much sense for them to trade up
even if you ask most Browns fans they will tell you they dont want to move up, and unless Holmgren think he is John Elway they aint moving up. But Miami will try and move up
I dont mind
I dont mind that you have a differing opinion. What I am already sick and tired of is people like you saying if people dont think the same as you that they are like Snyder as an insult.. Going to be a long 3 months of know it all Blowhards who KNOW the right path and should be the GM but you just never got a shot. And if you dont agree then your what ever cleaver name they wanna call you.Differing opinions are good except when they are delivered in a totally arrogant way.
LMFAO. you wouldn't be the first one
and it wouldn’t be the first time this cat called someone a Snyderatto.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
before I can agree or agree to disagree...
I don’t know who you think is arrogant. Could you point a finger?
The one who stated this thread
By calling anyone who didnt agree with his thinking a Snyderatto. Just already had my fill of these smug wannabe GMs. Its ok to discuss things but like i said. when they come off arrogant its not needed.
by kevinjames73 on Jan 21, 2012 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
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