Going Against my Own Grain: Part I
by Tiller56 on Jan 13, 2012 7:26 PM EST
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PrintMy resolution for 2012, was to try and keep an open mind about things(mainly sports). For example I've been battling with my wife to get a French Bulldog Puppy, but she says a puppy would not be best for us right now. Normally, I would have said screw it, and went out and got the damn dog anyways......................but I am keeping an open mind, so I listen to her, talk things out, and make a smarter decision.
Now with Football, things are harder. For instance, last weekend, I went into severe depression over the hiring of Bill O'Brien at Penn State; not because I hated the hire, but because someone I trusted told me we had a bigger fish on the hook. A bottle of Jack, some Lexapro and a dozen Xanax finally helped me snap out of my funk. Afterwards, I began to look at the hire with an open mind. Now, I actually like it.
With the Redskins, much like Penn State, we have been piss poor in a certain area of our football team for more than 20 years. I had to suffer almost as long with Paterno(who was getting more senile by the hour), and his idiot son Jay, who couldn't coach a pee-wee team, for so long before actually seeing change, and I am smart enough to realize that we need some in DC as well. Only this is not coaching change, but rather quarterback change.
For the new year, I am keeping an open mind about many of the QB options out there, and today I will focus on my least liked college first or second round quarterback prospect, Texas A&M's Ryan Tannehill.
If we strike out in an attempt to get Luck or Griffin, I am considering moving forward with Ryan Tannehill as our quarterback of the future. Here is my main reason for liking him: He could be had in the later part of the first round(with the foot injury), or possible early second. Either way, we could use the trade back approach, and get an additional second, and maybe even a first next year, depending on how far we move back. We can draft Tannehill with that pick, and draft a good linemen, maybe two, with our second round picks.
Of course, Tannehill is going to need some time(at least a year)before he can take over full-time starter duties, but when that time comes, we should have a stronger team around him. I like the scenerio of Tannehill(1st), Potter(2nd), Minnifield(2nd), Jones or Molk(3rd) and so on.............Maybe next year, we are able to use that first(if we were to get one high enough), on a stud QB like Barkley, Jones, Wilson or Bray - who knows.
Either way, in the spirit of keeping an open mind, Tannehill is an option for us this year in the draft.
I do really like the kids mobility and toughness. They are unique traits that are hard to find in a quarterback. I like his size and general football IQ. However, he does lack many of the attributes I feel are important for a quarterback to have. First, he doesn't have the big arm you like to see. His intermediate ball floats a little too much, and his deep ball hangs, and is about 55 yards max. Second, his accuracy is ok, but it can get better. Finally, what worries me most is his ability to go through progressions at a rapid pace, then pull a quick trigger. He was able to get away with some mental mistakes in college, mainly due to his quick release, but he won't last that long doing this in the NFL. It is, however, something he can work to imporove on.
Overall, with the right coaching, and a little time to develop, he could work out in the long run. So in the spirit of being open minded, bring on Tannehill.
*****Disclaimer - this is for discussion purposes only. In no way, shape or form does this represent my final opinion, or even my most popular one.
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Glad to hear you have turned over a new leaf this year
Tiller, while I share your QB frustration, I think you made the right decision to be more opened minded because we are not going to be able to draft either of the two stud QB’s in this draft with our position and firepower. I posted my thoughts on this matter a few weeks back in comments on another HH post with what direction we need to take given the draft position we are in. The trade back option will give us more firepower for a QB next year, or if we use the draft picks this year, it gives us the ability to build a better team so we can use the Nuclear option of trading a number of future picks for a Barkley in 2013 draft if the QB we draft this year does not show real promise of being the QB of the future. We are moving in the right direction, but still have too many holes to mortgage the future this year. Shanny has this year and next to get the QB situation right and I believe he will.
Here is what I posted on Dec 28th supporting your post of trading back
Put me in the, "Moving in the right direction camp, but still need plenty of talent b4 being a winner
Great post and comments by all. My best scenario is as follows:
CLE takes RGIIIi at pick number 5, no trade up to acquire him. Then trades their falcons 1st rd pick plus their 2nd to trade up with the skins for our 1st (most likely 7th overall pick) to grab RB Richardson from Ala. We use the low first on a QB and the 2 seconds for a WR and CB. 3rd Rd pick would be a RT prospect or upper tier C/G. Rd 4 would be used for another O-Line pick and HUGE upside TE (Ladarius Green, this guy has major upside). TE is a position we really need to worry about with Cooley’s injury’s and Fred "sleepy/smokey Davis", 5th Rd, fullback, two six round picks QB prospect and WR, 7th RB or TE. I know people will comment on the we can not expect CLE to trade up, but as I said in my opening, this is only my hope/wish and they have needs at both the QB and RB position. The trade last year with ATL allows them to make a splash with two really strong playmakers on Offense. Lastly, I think we need to really think about adding a premier WR via FA, either BOWE or Jackson (provided price is right) to complement our young WR’s and allow Moss to play out his career in the slot.
by 1footballguru on Dec 28, 2011 9:21 AM PST reply actions
i am not of the opinion
that we cantbget RG3 . the browns could sign a free agent and the vikes and rams wont go qb .
however assuming we dont the i would look at tannehill and foles in round 2 and moore and wilson later on and i may draft 2 qbs
i would look at flynn in conjunction with the draft picks
He's stated otherwise
CFT, although there might be the risk of him switching back if things don’t go well.
Don't worry Tiller.
The Skins will have a shiny new QB to play with this season, (I bet it’s Foles.)
Also, get the Frenchie! Those dogs are adorable and your wife will melt when you bring it home.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
by iH8dallas on Jan 13, 2012 8:26 PM EST via mobile reply actions
They are high maintenance....
but cool dogs. Keep in mind that you don’t get the cutest dog. You have to get the one that fits your lifestyle the best. We have a boxer…..they are supremely high maintenance and really shouldn’t be left alone for more than a few hours. I have wanted one my entire life but had to wait until a little later than desired (and through a marriage) to get one. My wife now is a stay at home mom and does college online. So, our family oriented, can’t be alone, Boxer has the perfect setting. I always encourage people to get dogs, but do your homework so that it has the best possibility of working out for everyone. I would also encourage adopting over getting puppies. There are purebred adoption places all over that can help you and it will help a growing problem of abandoned, forgotten, and over-populated dogs in kennels. If you and your family are gone most of the day, you need a breed that can handle this. If you want to take it to practices and such, you want a breed that is good with that. If you go out of town, you have to have a dog that is good with kennels or traveling. Do your homework just like you do for gameday!
At least "WE ARE" not Penn State!!!
by shvd98z24 on Jan 14, 2012 10:55 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Our first thought was adopting
but we say some health problems, and aside from that, the frenchies were hard to come by. I found a great breeder, who is very involved in educating people on the breed. The pup she has set aside for us, was supposed to go to a family at Christmas, but the family backed out last min. She is a small female, and the owner is selling her fro companion only, as she would not be ideal for breeding. This is what we want. We have no desire to breed. The puppy is creat trained already, and uses a wee-wee pad. She is being socialized by her owner, and is very used to small children, as her owner has grandchildren. She would be home no longer than 4-5 hours at a time, and only 2-3 days out of the week.
I’m still working on negotiations with the wife now, but talks have recently broke down.
Crying Lion
Completely agree with shvd above
My wife & I have fostered a couple of dozen dogs in the past few years & it is a lot of work & a huge responsibility. Pure bred dogs often come with built in problems that you won’t find in mutts however a Bulldog would be a great family pet & are relatively low maintenance. I hope that your wife reconsiders (if she can put up with you, she can definitely handle a puppy..haha) because dogs bring a lot of positives into a family, especially a family with small children.
They're really sweet, but expensive and have breathing problems.
I own a Boston terrier and love it. They are about the same size as Frenchies, look about the same and have less health problems.
You might want to look into one of those.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
by iH8dallas on Jan 14, 2012 2:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I've been watching a lot of Foles.
Man I like this kid. He can launch the ball a mile, all Uncle Rico style. Also he sells a helluva play-action.
He could really do well here.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
by iH8dallas on Jan 13, 2012 8:31 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Where is Foles projected?
Is there a possibility we draft BPA in the 1st and snag him in the 2nd, or do you think with Jones and Barkley staying, he vaults into the 1st? We need to get as much bang for our buck as we can this offseason.
At least "WE ARE" not Penn State!!!
Tannehill is a good fallback position
Your analysis is not as positive as others I’ve seen. I count 6 or 7 strong prospects and only 4 or 5 teams badly needing a QB, so we ought to be able to get somebody good. But there are all kind of possibilities involving Indy, STL, Cleveland, the Skins and a few other teams, and we could end up seeing Luck, RG3, Manning, Bradford, Flynn, Tannehill, Foles, Weeden or a few others. Cleveland and St Louis are the main competition for RG3, so have to be watched. Ideally Cleveland will get Flynn (or stick with McCoy) and St Louis will opt to stick with Bradford.
Fisher took the Rams HC job and has met with Bradford. It is true that 2011 was a tough one for Bradford with
injuries. The excessive hits don’t always ruin a QB. With all the hits Campbell took he seemed to shake of the damage that occurred when he was a Skin.
by Jefferson1935 on Jan 14, 2012 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
Tiller must be bored...
or he started to suck on the libation a little early for Friday.
Tiller, if it were me, I would only post this idea AFTER our team had to go this route, when it is a done deal and we all are trying to get our heads around it. Until then, I will consider this path as option #4 or #5. I am holding out hope that we consider option #1 – #3 before we cross this bridge.
no, I did...
I just think we, who believe that our Franchise QB is coming from trading up (Luck or RG3), need to stick together, in our assault on the strategies formulated by Steve/Stephan/Tuckwell and any others who live with Alice in Wonderland.
by jgibbsfan1 on Jan 14, 2012 10:11 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What are you saying gibbs ??
Are you trying to tell us that there is not a QB fairy who delivers the “perfect, can’t miss franchise” QB into our hands in the later rounds of the draft ??
Steve/Stephan/Tuckwell and any others who live with Alice in Wonderland.
QB's make everyone around them better
the Colts this year would have won a min 9 games with manning without him 2-14, so the difference is Peyton Manning and his ability to make his team better from receivers to tight ends to lineman cause he gets rid of the football, and the running backs are better cause the defense is worried about the passing game thus opening up running lanes. which helps your defense cause the Colts are built to play with the lead so Freeney and Mathis can T off. so when people say the cliche’ " the Redskins are not just a QB away" they should think about the Colts this past season cause they was a Manning away from being good.
by Highspeed30 on Jan 14, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
Are you seriously
copy-pasting this absolute garbage? How in the hell do you know that the colts would have won 9 games with Manning? Did you happen to know that they had the 3rd most difficult schedule in the league?
hey, daddyo...
what I am implying is the obvious, the philosophical difference demonstrated on this blog. There is the Steve camp, who believe that our QB might come from lower tier selections (which is possible), and the camp I belong to, who believes we need to go and get that QB, who believes the importance of that position, to add his talent/leadership to this already young, talented team.
Happy to be in this camp
Patience and Prudence is our motto
I hear what everyone is saying on not having this kid or anyone else start yet but I tell ya, I can't take any more of Rex starting
"You can build a million bridges, suck one dick, you're not a bridgebuilder you are a cocksucker." - - Woody Harrelson
To tell you the truth, I don't give a fuck who the QB is...
As long as it’s not Rex or Beck.
Griffin, Flynn, Foles, Tannehill, etc.
Don’t care, just not Rex.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
by iH8dallas on Jan 13, 2012 8:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Bing!
"You can build a million bridges, suck one dick, you're not a bridgebuilder you are a cocksucker." - - Woody Harrelson
As a Redskins fan I've sat back and watched some shitty QB play,
But those two jizz stains last year take the cake.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
by iH8dallas on Jan 13, 2012 8:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
yeah you could break the sheets after the stuff they left
"You can build a million bridges, suck one dick, you're not a bridgebuilder you are a cocksucker." - - Woody Harrelson
Let's see if you'll accept an even more radical stance.
what do you think of signing Matt Flynn, trading back several times and grabbing OL, CB, ILB, and WR, and adding a first round pick in 2013 as ammunition to get one of the top QBs?
Not really on the Flynn train...................but if it happens
well, I did say I’m keeping an open mind.
Crying Lion
Wait..What?
If we strike out in an attempt to get Luck
Did I miss something or are the Colts going to trade away the number 1 pick? Maybe the author can elaborate on this
Oh, you know the call will be made
I will bet many teams will throw it out there and see if it sticks…I believe the Colts will want a kings ransom and either backing down on their requirement (if they intend to stick with Peyton) or drafting him. I believe that the offers will play a big part in what they do with Manning as they are probably on the fence about what to do. They are in a good position with having two ways to go and personally think that they can’t go wrong either way
by Bryan Black on Jan 14, 2012 2:50 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Say it aint so Tiller
Guesd im the Last of a dying Breed
by mr.snyderhireme on Jan 14, 2012 2:46 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I'm in the same boat Tiller
and I still think trading up for a moderate amount should be explored – for both Luck and RG III. It just seems silly to me to not even find out the asking price.
So far I think Foles is as good a prospect as Tannehill as the fall back QB.
I like the idea of trading down
if Griffin is not there at 6. Question is what should be our expectations what we will get in return for moving down 10 to 15 spots in the draft.
Also starting to think it might make more sense if we pass on a QB this year altogether and go guns blazing next year to get a QB from next years litter. Dont see the point in selecting Foles or Tannheill since they really wont be ready to play next year.
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
This assumes we're going to sting the joint out next year
.Maybe next year, we are able to use that first(if we were to get one high enough), on a stud QB like Barkley, Jones, Wilson or Bray – who knows.
At least the first two listed are going to be really high choices next year so we’ge got to go in the toilet to get them which means Shanny and Son won’t be around to coach them up. It also assumes another year of Train Rex. No way Snyder is going to sit through 6-10, 5-11 and worse. He’s been doing that for too many years.
I was actually talking about a first we would get next year from another team
and assuming that one could be a high one.
Crying Lion
So I see most of you seem to be against the trade back - get Tannehill approach
yet a lot of you don’t want to give up too much for one of the top guys.
So let me ask, where is the middle ground? Please, I beg you, don’t say Flynn(although I’ll remain open minded).
Crying Lion
"Middle ground" is clearly staying at 6 and drafting whomever you think is the best fit for this ball club.
While also grabbing a QB when you deem necessary 6, 2nd, 3rd, whatever
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
by Parks Smith on Jan 14, 2012 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
This.
Typically I am either in favor of either staying where we are or trading back depending on the circumstances when it gets to our pick.
If we are capable of netting Cincinnati’s 17th and 21st picks I would be overjoyed.
by TheDeepBall on Jan 14, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
That would be awesome, a pipe dream, but awesome
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
by Parks Smith on Jan 14, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Definitely a possibility
If cincy wants Richardson
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
or Floyd/Jeffrey
they’ve had 2 big threats for a few years….if someone was put opposite Green, that dual threat would put lots of points on the board which could = more wins
but they would not be trading up to get either of those guys IMO
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
yea..seems unlikely
but if I was in the Cleveland front office, I’d figure out a way to get RGIII another target opposite Greg Little (if they draft him of course)
Right, try to get, and hope to get, Luck or RG3, and if we can't get one of them
get one of the so-called 2nd tier guys, as cheaply as possible. If we thought we could still get (e.g.) Tannehill at 25, we could try to trade down to 22, gaining an extra pick. Of course, that would be risky, and could depend on how Shanahan rates the QBs. If he figured Tannehill, Foles and Weeden were roughly equal, he could take chances. But if he thought he just had to have Luck or RG3, he’d just have to pay the price.
Middle ground doesn't exist in January...
Last year around this time, Ponder and Locker were both 2nd round options and Gabbert was considered the best QB prospect for 2011 and Cam Newton was slated to fall to us or Minnesota.
There is a very real possibility that Luck, RG3, Foles, Tannehill and even Weeden sneak into the first round by April. I’ve been trying to keep an open mind as well this year, and we’re definitely on the same page when it comes to Foles and Flynn. I most definitely wouldn’t want to take Tanehill in the 2nd this year, and then turn around and try to go after Bray or Barkley next year; it seems like a waste of a second round pick that could probably be a perennial starter if used wisely. Like Parks said though, middle ground (if it exists at this point) is to stand pat, keep #6 and take BPA…best protection available
We need to trade up for RGIII
and even if we bring in a veteran FA like flynn, I still believe that we need to trade up for RGIII.
Who's to say Flynn is any better right now than Rex Grossman?
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
by Parks Smith on Jan 15, 2012 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
So incredibly false and I couldn't be more tired of hearing this.
Every, single team that had their 1st string QB go down this year would have loved to have Grossman. If ANYBODY is better than Rex then does John Beck ring a bell? Rex is an average QB, that’s who he is and it needs to be accepted. He’d be one of the best backup QB in the league elsewhere.
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
by Parks Smith on Jan 15, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
but why do you have a backup caliber QB as your starter???
by Highspeed30 on Jan 15, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Did I say I wanted him to start?
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
Sure sounds like it.
If everybody wants Rex they can have him and his two turnovers a game. How do you honestly expect a team to win when it’s constantly losing the turnover margin? Sure Beck was an enigma that a lot of people on this list wanted to see play in place of Rex. Well we got to see that he’s as bad or worse. The Skins had no choice but to put Rex back in. you made your bed now sleep in it. does that say I want him again next year? Hell no!
by DudleyDoright on Jan 16, 2012 9:01 AM EST up reply actions
I can see Parks side to this
It’s not Rex’s fault he was in the situation he was in last season, it was Shanny fault for putting him in that situation. He was almost a fall-back, last resort of option.
We sure as hell weren’t trading for anyone good. Rex was about all we had left.
None of us really wanted him, but we had little choice.
Crying Lion
I like the trade back option
I’m not against trading back in the first if Griffin isnt there at 6. I think trading back and picking up more picks this year and next has the most value.
My only problem with your post is you suggested we trade back to Tannehill in the late first this year and then grab one of the stud QBs next year. Thats spending first round picks on QB’s in consecutive years and would be admitting that we blew the Tannehill pick.
I think we should trade back this year if Griffin isn’t there, however, I’m not sold on Tannehill and don’t think we should target a QB in the late first or even in the second if were positioning ourselves to take a stud QB at the top of the first next year.
Of course, if Shanahan gets canned after next year and the new coach wants a new QB thats another story but I dont feel we should spend consecutive firsts on a QB.
It's a given
Of course, if Shanahan gets canned after next year and the new coach wants a new QB thats another story but I dont feel we should spend consecutive firsts on a QB.
If Shanny doesn’t get this team on the positive side of winning next year he WON’T be here. That requires him to get a QB whether it’s a free agent of through the draft to run this team without all the turnovers that Rex generates.
I think the fans are going to be more impatient than Snyder this time around...
We change head coaches more than we change QB’s, I really think Snyder understands what it takes to make a playoff team, it definitely doesn’t happen over night, otherwise there would be 30 playoff caliber teams every year
+1 sort of
Except it will be three straight years that Shanahan hasn’t gotten the Skins over the hump. And depending on the amount of improvement or lack thereof will determine if Snyder thinks that Shanahan still has the mojo to get them over it. As Shanahan himself stated (paraphrasing) “if we haven’t righted the ship by my fourth year I’m not going to be here.” No…he does it this year or never will. He’s got to have a winning record to keep going. I don’t care if it’s 9-7 but it can’t be 7-9, or worse.
by DudleyDoright on Jan 16, 2012 9:10 AM EST up reply actions
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