Mel Kiper Regrades The Redskins' 2011 Draft Class
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jan 12, 2012 10:53 AM EST
in Redskins Analysis
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PrintThe man, the myth, the hair. It's pretty clear the Redskins had a solid 2011 draft. They turned six picks into twelve and every single player made the team or practice squad. Excluding Jarvis Jenkins' pre-season IR injury, every single one of the 12 players was on the active roster at one point and contributing. It'll be interesting to see how many of these guys beat out the competition next year. All that said, I gave the Redskins an "A" simply for netting six extra picks and avoiding drafting a QB. Locker, Ponder, Gabbert have not impressed, which means the Redskins would have been in a world of hurt. Enough on my opinion, here's what Mel Kiper had to say revisited:
Post-draft grade: C+
Summary: This felt like a novelty -- a Redskins draft with a ton of picks. The story of this draft was the fact that Washington didn't see a quarterback it wanted. Given the returns in the range in which the Redskins would have picked, it looks like a good calculation, at least in the short term. Only moving way down the board and ending up with Dalton could have looked better. Instead, the Redskins traded down, got Ryan Kerrigan at No. 16 and really aced the pick. Kerrigan picked up 7.5 sacks and played exactly as his draft projection had him pegged. Round 2 pick Jarvis Jenkins never saw the field because of injury, but both running back picks, Roy Helu and Evan Royster, played well when given the time, and I still think Leonard Hankerson has a chance to develop. Maurice Hurt looks like a seventh-round keeper. Having a lot of picks can help; it certainly helped this grade rise over the course of the season.
New grade: B
Only a B? This is where I'd get the Andy Dufresne nerves to tell Kiper, "How can you be so obtuse?" Kiper's response:
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It certainly seems like a fair grade for now…I’ll take a B, with hopes that Jenkins play next year and Helu becoming our #1 RB will turn this into an A!
agree...I think we as redskins fan think of this class as "A" quality because of our belief in jenkins' potential
but I think its a fair assessment from an outsider looking in to grade it a B range until that potential is realized (for all these rookies)
As for me, all I know is that I know nothing.
*Socrates*
haha agreed
I also think Skins fans think it is an A b/c there are more than 4 guys to talk about
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 12, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
for sure
the quantity of the picks alone had me stoked coming into the season haha, and it seems we got good quality as well…hopefully we get another bounty like this in the upcoming draft
As for me, all I know is that I know nothing.
*Socrates*
+1
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 12, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
well he was one of our best special teams players
which in and of itself, great value for a rookie 5th rounder.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 12, 2012 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
That's VERY bold...
I expect him to be our 4th or 5th receiver next year behind Moss, Hankerson, Gaffney and Potential Playmaking FA
Enter:
Bowe
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by Ronnie Adkins on Jan 12, 2012 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
we haven't had a draft this good in years
So obviously we’re going to grade it higher than outsiders
Hey Rams fan! What do you think the Rams will do in the draft?
Do you like Bradford?
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
If the Colts take Luck
We will have an auction for RG3. It’s going to be you, browns, and vikes all bidding for a QB. Sam will be fine if we use all those traded picks to get a real O-line and Blackmon.
well
not if the Vikings are in the bidding as he suggets…which I do NOT think is likely…and the Vikes have big holes everywhere else and probably can’t afford to spend consecutive 1st rounders on QBs
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 12, 2012 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
I think they give Ponder at least another year to determine what he brings to the team, plus next years crop of QB’s is supposed to be deeper than this years.
The underclassmen returning killed this one.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
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That happens every year tho
Two years ago it was Jake Locker returning, last year it was Andrew Luck, this year it is Matt Barkley. I think the Redskins need to stop waiting for “next year” when some magical QB fairy will come & drop off the perfect “can’t miss franchise” QB in their lap & go ahead & make the decision to go after an elite signal caller.
I google imaged "magical QB fairy and found this"
Irony (n.) -Michael Westbrook as the hero on Bully Beatdown.
Enjoy
Kevin, enjoy your time in solitary and remember, you still have the warden’s taxes to do.
by redskins-texas-fan on Jan 12, 2012 11:14 AM EST reply actions
I think it is a fair grade considering our 2nd rounder missed the entire year and our 3rd rounder missed half the year
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
SOOOUUUUP!
Irony (n.) -Michael Westbrook as the hero on Bully Beatdown.
by Jim America on Jan 12, 2012 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
haha
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
I've always wondered, how do you become a mock draft expert?
This guy makes a living guessing what players teams will pick and how good they will be.
Then when he’s dead wrong he retroactively flip-flops. I hate Mel Kiper.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
by iH8dallas on Jan 12, 2012 11:23 AM EST via mobile reply actions
of all the draft "experts"
todd mcshay is the one I despise the most
As for me, all I know is that I know nothing.
*Socrates*
I'd like to know myself
Especially since he watches film with Cerrato regularly in Baltimore.
"Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen." --Homer Simpson
Follow @HogsHaven
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jan 12, 2012 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
(case in point…they both demanded Redskins should take Clausen at #4)
"Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen." --Homer Simpson
Follow @HogsHaven
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jan 12, 2012 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
Not so sure about Danny.
"Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen." --Homer Simpson
Follow @HogsHaven
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jan 12, 2012 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
i remember that
damn….never thought about it till’ now. that really hurts his credibility in my book
remember when the old colts' GM went all irate on kiper in one interview after a draft, ha
As for me, all I know is that I know nothing.
*Socrates*
that was awesome...though Kiper was right no that one Trev Alberts was awful
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 12, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
haha very true
i thought it was interesting last year when either shanahan or allen said that they actually use these mock drafts in their war room scenarios…like if the first five picks were to play out in such and such a way, then who would we pick at 6th
As for me, all I know is that I know nothing.
*Socrates*
I would say, "who does Kiper have going to us?"
Then mark that guy off my list.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
i agree with that approach though I think it is important to look at every view point
though i’d suggest weighing them appropriately. I’m not a huge fan of Todd McShay (though will say they’ve been a lot better over the last year or two), but am of Tony Pauline. So when i was reading before the season that Pauline thought Landry Jones was the most overrated QB and Scouts Inc. was in love with him, it made me question my own preconceived notion. And I started watching every single game of his and started to really see his flaws.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 12, 2012 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
interesting
I haven’t heard of Tony Pauline, I’ll have to check him out, thanks
As for me, all I know is that I know nothing.
*Socrates*
he's the Sports Illustrated guy
been around for years
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
When it comes to ranking pro-prospects by position it seems there is some validity. The story
changes when players are ranked in the “big boards.” Ranking the top 32 players is ambitious, but the top 200
is a guessing game. Yet it is easier than long range weather forecasting.
by Jefferson1935 on Jan 12, 2012 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
Pretty sure his degree
Is in meteorology
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
Thought Nield was a bigger success out of the 7th round.
by wuds100 on Jan 12, 2012 11:57 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Nield Bigger success than what credit was given
much agreed, wish he had been used more. Can he block?
i think hurt earned a spot on the 53 man roster
got good experience this year, and should be a valuable depth asset and spot starter
As for me, all I know is that I know nothing.
*Socrates*
yeah that comment did make any sense
what exactly did Hurt do that one would say ’he’s a keeper’. I get that he was in a tough situation, but he struggled BIG TIME, you def. bring him to camp and see if he has gotten better, but his job is def. not safe.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 12, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Like wuds said, I thought Neild flashed way more this season. Kiper also didn’t mention the potential of Jenkins and the facts that Gomes and Paul saw playing time as rookies is good for them as players. Good for our team is another question, but they personally gained experience.
I don’t care much for Kiper, he’s able to make a living because of ballsy predictions and his goofy look. The guy looks like a character out of Jerry McQuire more than anything else.
This is what will happen draft day.
The phone rings (riiiinnngggg)
“Hello.”
“Bruce, it’s Jerry.”
“What’s up shit lips?”
“We really want Dre Kirkpatrick.”
“Oh reallllllyyyyyyyyy?”
“Well, let’s trade spots. give me your second rounder and Laurent Robinson.”
“Done deal.”
We take Foles in the Cowboys’ spot.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
You got it all wrong man
You gotta screw them out of as many picks as possible. You gotta take their 2nd and 4th this year and their 1st next year with Robinson lol
by terpsallday on Jan 12, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
agreed...no way we fall that many spots
for only a 2nd rounder and a WR that wouldn’t make our practice squad
What?
Robinson would immediately be one of if not our best receiver.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
by iH8dallas on Jan 12, 2012 1:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Why do you say that?
He’s been on 4 teams in 5 years…that doesn’t show me anything
His best year was his rookie season where he had 37 catches with 1 TD.
I know you like to get behind every Redskins player 2000%, but don’t jump the shark on a proven unproven. Let him have a 80-100 catch season and then I’ll be willing to debate he would immediately be our best receiver.
He had a really good year with the Cowboys last year.
Check your stizats.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
by iH8dallas on Jan 12, 2012 1:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Check YOUR stiztas
He had 34 receptions and 2 TDs with the Rams last year
You spelled it wrong.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
by iH8dallas on Jan 12, 2012 1:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I checked 'em...
he still sucks.
haha, he had a 4 game stint where the starters were hurt and he got to be a top target. Dallas does a good job of throwing to their receivers, it’s something we haven’t done well in forever. If Robinson was on this team, he’d be lucky to get 15 catches, 175 yards and 1 TD in a season.
Young players can't get better?
crap, better cut Paul then cause he’s peaked at 25 yards per season.
Man you love the flash in the pan guys, there is a reason Robinson has played for 4 different teams the last 4 years
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
Not to mention he got cut from the Cowboys last year...
he only got resigned because of injuries. I’d rather bring Malcolm Kelly into camp again than Robinson
I was shocked every time I heard he scoered a TD.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
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I get that people might be overvaluing him here
but he’s obviously light years better than Malcolm Kelly
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
It was only part of my trade scenario.
Leave the hate at the door.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
by iH8dallas on Jan 12, 2012 1:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That means nothing.
He finally got his opportunity and stepped up when Austin went down and became a go to guy for the Cowboys. Something i can’t say about any Redskins WR worth keeping…
He didn't get an opportunity in STL?
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
He started 14 games?
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
I partially agree
I think you’re right, Robinson DID step up and seize his opportunity. I just think that most would argue that he isn’t a special receiver…he’s just a guy playing with a good QB (Romo), and in an offense that has some really dangerous weapons (Dez and Jason Witten) to take a lot of the defenses focus away
Then what happened to Roy Williams?
He was a better WR before playing for the Cowboys but bottomed out playing alongside Romo.
He obviously wasn't as good as he was thought to be
Also, you can argue Romo has improved greatly since Roy Williams left
Maybe Laurent Robinson = Anthony Armstong ??
by WestCoastHokie on Jan 12, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
Laurent Robinson = Jaques Green
Their stats are almost identical….except Green’s are better in a shorter period of time
AA got shafted with a weak arm
AA will have a heck of a year if we get a qb that can throw the ball. His asset is his speed. He has to slow down and wait for Regrossbomb to get the ball too him which were 9 out of 10 times under thrown.
Not exactly.
EVERYTIME AA lined up outside the opposing team jamed him. There was finally gametape on hiim…hence Shanny saying if you can’t beat press coverage then you’ll be a coach. AA can’t beat press coverage.
@Callahan_9 on the twitter machine.
Art Monk couldn't beat press coverage for a long time.
We ran him in motion basically his entire rookie year. Hopefully, whoever replaces McCardell will excel at developing receivers as well.
Irony (n.) -Michael Westbrook as the hero on Bully Beatdown.
by Jim America on Jan 12, 2012 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
What's missing is that Art Monk was a 1st RD pick and a stud coming out of 'Cuse..
while AA is a 5’10 nothing that is 28 with good speed BUT nothing else. I like you Jim America but if you ever compare Monk to AA, I’ll have to reconsider.
@Callahan_9 on the twitter machine.
Wasn't comparing them
Just pointing out that there are ways to scheme around a player’s weaknesses.
Irony (n.) -Michael Westbrook as the hero on Bully Beatdown.
by Jim America on Jan 12, 2012 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
and that is a good thing?
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
i heard Ryan tannehil is getting surgery
Does that effect our draft at all for those who wanted to trade back?
by no more kwame's in dc on Jan 12, 2012 12:17 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Just a fracture in his foot. The inability to participate in draft lead-up events may hurt him from rising as much as he could, but there’s no way I think he falls past the 2nd. Depends on his interviews I suppose, but he sounds like a smart kid.
yeah i think it will set him back some.
The combine and workouts are usually what makes or breaks a player
by no more kwame's in dc on Jan 12, 2012 12:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i just wrote a fan post on it, but no it doesn't change my opinion
in fact trading back might be even a more viable strategy since he’s pretty likely to be in the 2nd round.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 12, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
As Redskins fans, we want his stock to fall because of this foot injury.
by Brutus89 on Jan 12, 2012 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
haha and i put that in my fanpost
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 12, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
so you guys don't think it will be a problem at all?
by no more kwame's in dc on Jan 12, 2012 12:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
no not for his development or talent
the only real issue is since he has only been a starter for a year and a half, that week at the Senior Bowl would have been huge in not only helping his draft stock, but with allowing teams to feel more confident drafting him. (the Combine as well, but Senior Bowl week is more valuable).
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 12, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Kiper should suck it
Our post draft grade was based solely on the fact that he thought we should take a QB at 10. When guys like him and McShay are wrong they take it as a personal offense. They have no clue what direction Shanny is going and the only teams that get high marks are the ones these tools guess right on.
The Blue Royster Cult needs more cow bell.
by 64ShagginWagon on Jan 12, 2012 12:29 PM EST reply actions
that is my problem as well too often they look at drafts in a vacuum or at a certain pick
them not realizing that a team like the Redskins that was desperate for talent at just about every position last offseason, that trading back is good thing is extremely short sided.
I get that there was a real question mark at QB, but by trading back the Skins filled OLB, RB, WR, and got a depth WR and Guard.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jan 12, 2012 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
I still wish we would have took Josh Portis or Greg McElroy in the 7th
Neild and Hurt turned out fine…but one of those 2 guys probably would have gotten a shot to outshine Beck and probably earned some playing time
can't disagree with you there
i would have probably looked to take a guard with that Robinson pick, and then a QB in the 7th.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Hindsight
TJ Yates woulda been nice in OUR draft spot.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
If he took it as personal offense then why would he write a whole article reevaluating his original opinion and admitting he was wrong on nearly every grade?
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
Read what he wrote
Even in his reassessment he says if we took Dalton we would have a higher grade. Go look at all of our draft grades from last year. I believe all but one or two “experts” gave us low grades soley based on not taking a QB. Most didn’t even grade the players we took.
Kiper also disreguarded Paul, Gomes, and Nield all of who had major contributions during the season. He hammered all of those guys and said Helu was a major reach in the fourth.
His whole tone is “I was wrong fuck you.”
The Blue Royster Cult needs more cow bell.
by 64ShagginWagon on Jan 12, 2012 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
They can't be offended...
no one ever gets the mocks right. You have a better chance of winning the lottery twice than deciding the outcome of the 1st round a month in advance
Sure they can be offended
Their job is to be “experts” on who teams draft and why the team needs that guy. When they are wrong they feel like asses. The only people that don’t get butthurt when they are wrong in their job are weathermen.
The Blue Royster Cult needs more cow bell.
by 64ShagginWagon on Jan 12, 2012 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
Steveo, when did you get a last name?
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
TJ Yates should have been one of our picks.
He was the only guy out of the top 5 QB’s I hoped we would take. Having a great rookie year and leading (maybe managing would be a better word) Houston into the second round is very impressive for a guy drafted in the 5th round.
This grade is right on though. We made the best move in the first round passing on Gabbert and moving down to take Kerrigan. Extremely smart and look how good the move turned out. Jenkins was a surprise pick but seems to be the right one. Only hoping Hankerson can rehab fully, I think he can be a #1 WR in the near future… It’ll be interesting to see where he is on the depth chart next season because Moss should be moving to slot and Gaffney will secure the outside and I believe Leonard will be on the opposite barring what happens in FA and if we go after VJ or DB. Obviously we hit on Helu and Evan. Hurt may replace Cory at LG next season… hitting on your 7th rounders is always a huge plus.
Hoping this draft pans out just as well. We will get our guy at QB and hopefully it’s Griffin but if not then I’m sure Bruce and Mike have a great plan in place, they won’t ignore the QB position this year. We just need to relax, this team is heading in the right direction and is in good hands.
i'm starting to think we draft dre kirkpatrick now
but i can’t say we do that because our offense needs work
but it’s something shanny would do to throw a curve ball in there
Counting cards isn't illegal. It's frowned upon, like masturbating on an airplane.
agreed that would be the only way I see Shanny going defense in the 1st
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
He's not drafting defense in the first. That's like putting new tires on a car with no engine.
I see it as more cushion for the pushin'
"Who the hell is Mel Kiper?!"
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
i know - i was refferring to bill tobin's comment about him
When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey
The grading system is all jacked up, tell me what you guys think of this format?
With my first post, i would like to thank all you guys for allowing me to do so. I really enjoy this site! You guys run A+ material!
enough of that, how can we grade a draft’s quality with just one letter? it should be like a credit score, divide it up into three different parts. ( like a credit score) The first part would cover the team and how well they addressed their most urgent needs. for us clearly the qb and offensive playmakers. (love you always 89, never forget that monday night comeback in dallas, but brother you aint that guy anymore!) everyone seems to go by this first style only and it’s very vague. The second would be, did any of the new rookies have success? or did they all struggle? Aldon smith (49’s rookie de) was really laughed at, last i checked ol boys got like 18 sacks, granted that defense of cast really helps, but atleast stat wise he can argue he was the best pick up this year. Kiper didn’t even mention our last pick pullin down a couple sacks in crucial moments of games, that helped the defense make a stop an get off the field. this second grade should just be on the quality brought in, and the production added, good or bad. The third, and very overlooked, is bumms that were passed on, has anyone in the local media, (980, 106.7) even praised the shannys for passing on Gabbert or anyothers? EB on the junks takes his shock jock ways a little to far, I know that mcnabb was awful, as was beck, but atleast the shannys seem to know what they want, and Im hoping we have a team better than Houston in 3yrs!!!! keep the shannys for atleast 5 years, we have tried everything else! in judging the draft we should go by these three catagories, what do you folks think?
p.s. I love you Dan Snyder, I live in Tampa and have also lived in Jville while in the Navy, I want an owner who’s a fan first and businessman second, there’s only a couple of you fellas out there in this league, stick with the shannys, let them do their thing and enjoy the show, please stay a spectator
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