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The Good, Bad, And TBD From Training Camp So Far

I've been fortunate enough to attend this year's training camp courtesy of SBNation DC for the past week. I've been meaning to post here what I've seen so far, who's stood out, etc.

Right now we're in the dead period between practices (this morning's session was a light walkthrough) so I figured now would be a good time to try and give a first eye account of what's been happening so far in camp.

So without further ado, let's take a look at the early developments so far in camp:

The Good

Jarvis Jenkins: The Redskins second rounder might be having the best camp out of anyone so far. He has the size, strength and speed to really excel in the 3-4, and it's been showing in drills. In 11-on-11's, Jenkins has been living in the backfield. That may be more of an indictment on the offensive line than Jenkins himself, but not every defensive lineman has been as consistent as he has so far. In one-on-one drills, he is winning virtually every battle, being able to beat interior lineman either with by crossing their face or by simply bull rushing directly to the quarterback. It'll be interesing to see how much game action he gets come next Friday.

Malcolm Kelly: The issue with Malcolm, as we all know, is his inability to stay healthy. We just haven't been able to see him get on the field on any consistent basis, and thus we can't really tell if he can play or not. Mike Shanahan seems to have confidence in him, otherwise he wouldn't have put him on injured reserve last year instead of releasing him outright. Kelly knows this is a make or break year this season, and he's shown it so far. He's caught virtually everything thrown his way, from short crossing routes to sideline routes to deep routes, everything is landing in his hands. Time will tell if Shanahan's gamble to keep him on the roster will pay off.

More after the jump

Star-divide

 

Trent Williams: He's easily been the best Redskins offensive lineman so far. Seeing him in one-on-one drills, it's not even fair for the opposing rusher. He's so athletic and has such quick feet that putting any one pass rusher toe-to-toe with him is a mismatch, because Trent can keep up with any and all of their moves. His ability to recover after being initially beat is what sets him apart. He could be beat two or three times on a given play, and still keeps his feet moving and his knees bent, giving him a chance to stick with his man. He doesn't seem satisfied with his rookie year, and is determined to make a big step forward in 2011.


The Bad

Offensive line depth: Unless things improve, this could really become a problem going forward. The backup offensive line of Clint Oldenburg, Eric Cook, Selvish Capers and Maurice Hurt have struggled mightily so far. It shouldn't be a common occurrence to see offensive lineman laying on the ground after a running play or being consistently pushed into the backfield on every pass rush, but it's happening. The Redskins are banking on some of their younger lineman making a huge jump in 2011 rather than looking outside the organization. We'll see just how improved they are once the games start.

Ryan Torain: Even before he injured his hand yesterday, there didn't seem to be much burst from Torain. He still runs very upright, and that could easily lead to fumbling issues down the road. Add that tot he fact that the Redskins now have other options at that position in Tim Hightower, Roy Helu and Evan Royster and Torain is going to have to show he is truly head and shoulders above his competition. But, as usually is the case, his inability to stay healthy doesn't help his case. 

Training camp crowds: Lockout? Sure. Hot weather? Absolutely. No star players? Of course. But to see the lack of fan support has still been pretty stunning. I remember coming to training camp years ago when practices would be ten's of rows deep behind the barrier. Now? Probably two of three rows back max. I'm not sure what this means, but clearly something has turned away fans. We'll have to see if that translates to stadium attendance or not.

TBD

John Beck: He's had his good days and he's had his bad days. Some morning's he's looked relatively sharp, being able to hit receivers with solid accuracy on a number of different throws. But then there are other times where his passes seem to wobble (particularly on the deep ball) and receivers have to wait for the ball to get there. On some drop backs he's been able to have a good feel in the pocket for pressure, being able to step up and hit his man over the middle. Other times, he seems flustered by pressure and tucks and runs (albeit unsuccessfully). All in all, the jury is still out on this training camp's "main attraction".

Laron Landry: The longer he sits out with his Achilles injury, the more this will become a story. Landry has been siting out practice for the past week, as he's started the preseason on the PUP list along with Kareem Moore and Robert Henson. Landry is such a big cog for Jim Haslett's defense this year, and with the addition of O.J. Atogwe, one would hope that the two of them could form one of the better safety tandems in the league. 

Ryan Kerrigan: It's a real shame that we haven't been able to get a good look at him so far. He's been participating in early team drills, but his bone bruise has kept him out of the majority of practices this week. I'm really anxious to see how he will adjust to playing linebacker after being such a dominant 4-3 defensive end at Purdue. I wouldn't look for Ryan to play in next week's game against Pittsburgh, but we'll have to see how quickly he heals.

In addition to contributing here at Hogs Haven, Daniel Shiferaw covers the Redskins for SBNation DC. Follow him on twitter at @dshif .

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great read dshif

Love to see that Jenkins and Williams are dominating. Kelly is a pleasant surprise, though one i won’t count on just yet.

Hopefully the early O-line issues will get the team to sign a couple better ‘backups’, who can start if need be.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Aug 4, 2011 11:22 AM EDT reply actions  

Agreed, good job out there

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Aug 4, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, very good work

@Callahan_9 on the twitter machine.

by Diesel44 on Aug 4, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Training Camp crowd is easy...

Folks are pissed at Snyder.

I know I am, and will continue to be. Zorn year 2 so pissed me off that Shanny could walk on water, touch the grave of Sammy Baugh, say “Arise young and a Redskin” again, and I still would be pissed at Snyder. Only actual performance matters now, and if he screws up the Shannaplan before it has a chance (i.e., before the 2013 concludes, at least), then I’ll be pulling out the tar and feathers myself for the big march on Snyder’s McMansion.

So pardon the fans if, after getting reamed by the lockout and feeling like we have to almost wear a burgundy and gold paper bag over our heads anymore because of ownership if we don’t bother to show.

No Danny, Nooooooo - Tom Landry, 1982., and Washington Redskins fans, 1999-

by BillWard on Aug 4, 2011 11:25 AM EDT reply actions  

I doubt that's the case...

Saturday should be packed.

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Aug 4, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

no buzz around the team

no stars and with Beck as our QB, I don’t see how the common fan can think we’re even going to improve on 6-10.

Our defense seems solid, but our offense seems like itll make me want to cry rather than see any more

A broken hand can't break our heart. Hoya Saxa!

by SomebodyBuyAustinaSteak on Aug 4, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to worried about Landry!

I think of all the players at camp I would give him the time to sit and take mental reps and be ready by 9-11 than any other player, and with what we have on the roster so far we CANNOT afford to loose him for the year with a ACL injury. I also think you could put Kelly in the TBD category, TBD on when he will pull another hammy!

by VBSkinsFan on Aug 4, 2011 11:47 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I Hope

That they are just allowing Landry to chill while a lot of the defensive acquisitions are unable to practice.

I think it will show a lot if Landry doesn’t start practicing by this weekend, after the CBA is signed and all the other new FA acquisitions (Cofield, Bowen, J Wilson) are allowed to practice.

Right now, you could say the coaching staff is resting and easing in one of their most talented defenders…..if he doesn’t start practicing soon, it means there’s a problem.

by StephanHart on Aug 4, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree.

Simply cannot afford to lose Landry for the season. Let him take as long as he needs to heal up and make it through the entire season. Kelly, personally I hope he pans out into a pleasant surprise; if not I could actually care less. So whatever on him.

by Wilmncskinsfan on Aug 4, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

DShif, I'm interested to see what you have seen/heard

on Willie Smith? Is he getting reps? Hows he looking so far. Also, I heard good things on Niles Paul. Whats your take in him so far? I know he looks the part.

I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!

by Tiller56 on Aug 4, 2011 11:52 AM EDT reply actions  

Interesting

national football post had Smith ranked above some of the prospects that were drafted much higher. Thanks for posting Jeff.

I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!

by Tiller56 on Aug 5, 2011 7:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

I imagine Kerrigan will struggle mightily

Remember Rak trying to cover Tony Gonzalez his rookie year? Wasn’t good.

"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made." -Groucho Marx

Hogs Haven. On Twitter..

by Kevin Ewoldt on Aug 4, 2011 12:13 PM EDT reply actions  

3-4 hybrid

with Bowen, Jenkins, Coefiel and Kerrigan(hand in the dirt 5-tech) playing on the D-line. McIntosh comes in on obvious passing downs(he’s not bad in coverage).

I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!

by Tiller56 on Aug 4, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

he struggled last year, but that was probably due to the new defense

I could see something like you’d suggest, but my guess is Orakpo will also put his hand down some.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Aug 4, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I agree

to both of your comments

I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!

by Tiller56 on Aug 4, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

kerrigan and rak are both weak in coverage

I think kerrigan will suck in coverage but if he becomes a double digit sack producer how much will that matter?

by alwaysremember21 on Aug 4, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

He is rarely in coverage (even for an OLB)

but when he is, he’s always been pretty solid.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Aug 4, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are you ever able to accept that our players aren't perfect. Kerrigan probably will struggle its part of the NFL.

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Aug 4, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

He remind me of myself and just about everyone else here two years ago,

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Aug 4, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

People only read half my comment and MagicHat thinks hes a lot wittier than he is

we brought kerrigan here to get after QBs not cover TEs, and im on board with that. However both orakpo and kerrigan struggle dropping back, they were college DEs theyre used to mauling people in front of them not dropping back.They’re young players, in time they can improve in that part of their game but its not like it will ever be a specialty of theirs.

by alwaysremember21 on Aug 4, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

It depends what they expect from him and Rak

If they are going to be used like the Steelers use their OLBs then it won’t matter that they can’t cover because they won’t be asked to do it much.

by PJ_21 on Aug 4, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

actually the Steeler's OLB's probably cover more than any other rush linebackers (and some 4-3 OLB's)

Pittsburgh blitzes their ILB’s a lot and obviously their safeties as well so a number of times Woodley and Harrison drop off into coverage

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Aug 4, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

ha, that'll teach me for not doing my research..

I guess I just always remember Harrison for his work rushing the passer and not his all round game!

Kerrigan is still a total unknown but I always fear that we will never see the best from Orakpo whilst in the 3-4, even last year he was at his best when he had his hand in the dirt a lot of the time.

by PJ_21 on Aug 4, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah i didn't realize it either

but i looked it up earlier in the offseason and was shocked. They are both freaks, which does leave me some hope that Haslett can install that here.

I think Orakpo will get it as will Kerrigan. It will just take sometime. It wasn’t an easy thing for Orakpo to switch positions twice in his first two years. And then having to be the man last year as the rest of our defense couldn’t even sniff the QB. He is at his best with his hand down, and will still have those chances, but i expect him to improve standing up as he gets more comfortable.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Aug 4, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Some of the good pass rushers are also good at run defense. Here is hoping Orakpo has developed

some other techniques that do not allow the OT to get a choke hold on him. In other words, moves than do not give the officials the discretion to call holding when it is right in front of their faces.

by Jefferson1935 on Aug 4, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe if

we start to get some more 3-4 type players we can start utilizing everyone’s strenghts. Say Markus White develops into a good OLB, maybe Orakpo could put his hand in the dirt on passing downs and White can play LB or something of the sort. Not saying that is the plan just thinking of possibilities that could arise with more depth.

by skins4life010 on Aug 4, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

run play action every time to his side

"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made." -Groucho Marx

Hogs Haven. On Twitter..

by Kevin Ewoldt on Aug 4, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

right

good point

"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made." -Groucho Marx

Hogs Haven. On Twitter..

by Kevin Ewoldt on Aug 4, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know it's a big if

but if Kelly stays healthy enough to make the 53 the I think he will have a big impact especially in red zone offense.
It’s been a while since we had a big redzone target at the receiver position

by PJ_21 on Aug 4, 2011 12:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Great report, thanks for the info.

Nice to get these inside reports from someone there everyday. My initial reactions are:

Strong buy on Jenkins as a future foundation piece for the D-line.
Not buying Kelly until he makes it thru pre-season and produces in those games.
Buy on Trent, he came into camp in shape and with a new attitude.

All I had to read was Oldenberg, Capers, Cook, Hurt, and back-up O-line in the same sentence, and knew that big problems lie ahead. Where is the competition for the starting line and these crucial back-up spots?
Buy real low on Torain, higher on Hightower. Torain is productive, but an injury waiting to happen. Good pick-up on Hightower.

Understandable with the crowds. Team has been irrelevent for 20 years, give a year or 2, is expected to be mediocre again this year, has no “star power”, completely renovated roster, and a bad economy on top of it. Fan support should be down. That’s the only card fans hold in letting management know that mediocrity and ineptitude will no longer be tolerated. Put a winner on the field, groom “star” players that fans can follow throughout their careers, and provide a product that people will pay hard earned money for and invest their time in.

by JDC15 on Aug 4, 2011 12:31 PM EDT reply actions  

Reading from various other reports as well,

Sounds like Beck is improving day to day. It’s his job to lose, and as long as he continues to improve, he should be adequate at the least.

Concerned about Landry, defense needs him.

McIntosh replaces Henson, and parks Riley. I expect to see a lot of 4-2 in nickel packages, and Riley isn’t there. Golston works into that 4-2 formation.

Anxious to see Kerrigan play, and how they use him. He may not play much linebacker, hybrid defense may keep him in the dirt predominately and situationally.

by JDC15 on Aug 4, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

disagree about Beck

as far as it being “his job to lose”. that is a misconception that Shanny cleared up recently. He never said or even insinuated that beck is the starter.

I see it more as it’s Rex Grossman’s job to lose. He started the last few games last year, has 3 years in the K.Shanny offense, and has better timing with S.Moss, A.Armstrong, etc.

I think that it will be an open competition once Rexy suits up. The idea that Beck is pencilled in at #1 is just plain wrong IMHO.

Hail to 'Em

by SkinsaneAsylum on Aug 4, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

On behalf of Redskins who don't live close to DC... thank you!

HH is our only source for Training Camp info.

That said… I think Torain’s injury opens the door for Hightower… but… I’m mostly glad that this opens the door for Helu to shine… and perhaps even Royster will step up.

Not surprised Kelly is doing fine, he’s had 3 years to rest! In the army we used to call them “spotlight rangers”. Hope he shows something when it counts. Glad we drafted Hank… might be my team jersey this year!

Worried that I haven’t heard anything about Cook. I thought he had improved, hence no C in the draft.

I knew all along that Jenkins made Da’quan Bowers look good. He’ll do the same for Kerrigan and/or Orakpo.

by 1x1an on Aug 4, 2011 12:32 PM EDT reply actions  

A little off topic...

but I think the way Shanahan handled Haynesworth was the best and most important thing to happen to this franchise in 10 years.

This is now a TEAM, not just a collection of guys. The free agents that came here understand how things work and that is very important.

This is a darkhorse NFC team and I think they will be in it.

I really can’t wait for the game against New England. better believe Shanny is running right at Fat Al just to embarrass him.

"That's what she said!"

by iH8dallas on Aug 4, 2011 12:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Shanny wants to embarrass himself??

That New England game will probably get quite ugly, and if you think Lichtensteiger can block Big Al you are sorely mistaken.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Aug 4, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was thinking that too

All I can see is that image of Big Al driving the guard into Jay Culter. It’s sad to think John Beck will have died so young.

by mbedner on Aug 4, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

You know how I always hoped that Albert would come in and tell Mike that he wanted to play

would work hard, etc., and if that happened, he could be great, and greatly help the defense.
   Well, from what Shanahan said, Albert never had the chance to play for us – Mike shut him out completely. We’ll never know what he would have done, and it’s possible that he would have remained recalcitrant. But he seems to have regained his enthusiasm up in NE, and I suspect that he will be great.
    The Yahoo ratings counted the loss of AH as a big negative, and it was. For whatever reason, Mike alienated and made little use of one of the greatest D-lineman in the game. That’s a loss, and no reason to celebrate.

by Donnio1234 on Aug 4, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Shanahan handled that rather poorly

But I admit the over the top way it was conducted as publicly as possible does lend itself to a bunch of chest thumping sports cliches.

by BayAreaBullet on Aug 4, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

It sucks that it devalued Haynesworth so much,

but if it makes the team better by setting a tone, I’m all for it.

by mbedner on Aug 4, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

You could have set a tone in a less public way IMHO

It was orchestrated by Shanny to play out in the press as much as possible. I sometime think the only audience that whole farce was intended for was the press and Shanny’s perceived critics. It did not need to be a soap opera all year. I respect the underlying message just think it was delivered rather poorly.

by BayAreaBullet on Aug 4, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

less public?

This is DC media we’re talking about here.

by skinsfan28 on Aug 4, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know right.

There was no way to have that dispute in a “private” manner.

"That's what she said!"

by iH8dallas on Aug 4, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Have I just been transported back to the Washington post Blog

I agree 100% with iH8Dallas.

#1. How could Shanny have kept that more quiet.
#2. Haynesworth hasn’e been hurt, all I hear on ESPN is about FAT A and D-5, and absolutely nothing about the skins.
#3. At what point has this generation lost the idea, it’s the coaches way or the highway.
#4. Last year was a long year, but I agree, that locker room respects Shanny and will play hard for him. Hayneworth was a cancer in the locker room, it was all about him, not the team.

by Rodskins on Aug 4, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

It does seem like the inter-workings of the McNabb dispute was very private until he was benched.

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Aug 4, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yea, still don't know what to believe regarding that.

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Aug 4, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Given the obvious tension between Kyle and McNabb

and the fact that McNabb kept not producing and his egomania I believe it

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Aug 4, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

really disagree

Shanny kept the McNabb thing quite and that was the ‘franchise QB’ that had this town buzzing. And the only thing Shanny proved last year was he cared about himself and not the team. Sure his intentions are good, but he believes that his system will prevail no matter what.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Aug 4, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it's obvious he wanted the AH thing as public as possible

Not that he could keep it quiet but it was basically a parade at certain points. I think embarassing him publicly as much as possible was a more important goal than reducing distractions or doing the best for the team.

by BayAreaBullet on Aug 4, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

exactly he made a spectacle of it all from the stories in the press

which came mostly from the Redskins not AH, the conditioning test, etc.

A lot also has to do with the media, remember how chastised Hayensworth was by the media for not being in the ‘defensive’ meeting during the Dallas game, despite the fact no other linemen were there. The sad thing there was the coaches didn’t rise to his defense, and let the story fester. The exact opposite of what they did with McNabb.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Aug 4, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

i think it was a bad move by a bullheaded coach..

 we lost both mcnabb and hainsworth thanks to shahahan. if we stayed in the 4-3 and kept mcnabb this year we woulda made the playoffs easy. now will prolly go 6-10 at best and not even get a good rookie qb from the draft next year unless we trade up. i dont mind a rebuild but looks like they aint doing a very good job so far.

by munson21502 on Aug 4, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

You don't build solid programs around stubborn or lazy players

Do you think Bellicheck is going to bend his rules for Fat A?

You guys understand very little about leadership. Yes you have to compromise some with ego maniacs for talent. But Fat A wanted to do what was best for himself, not for the team. D-5 was lazy, as we recently heard from someone inside the locker room.

Call him bullheaded if you want, I am sure Vince Lombardi, Bellicheck, Landry etc, had a little of that.

by Rodskins on Aug 4, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

reminds me of an old saying

“Hard work beats talent, when talent does not work hard”

Hail to 'Em

by SkinsaneAsylum on Aug 4, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

why is Jenkins not a projected starter? I’d like the D line to be Bowens Coefield Jenkins not Carriker. No offense to carriker (I love the occasional white boy) but Jenkins I think is where we need to go.

How did all of us learn to swim, get thrown in the pool, I’m sure thats how Phelps learned. No more of this groom them shiate

by jbh1190 on Aug 4, 2011 12:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Jenkins will get plenty of time i believe

but it is probably for the best for Carriker to start, let Jenkins earn that job.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Aug 4, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hes hardly going to project as the starter after 1 week of TC

I’m sure he could end up as the starter come week 1 but it’s not as if we need him to step in and make a significant contribution immediately.
Starter or not he will definitely get plenty of snaps in the rotation if he keeps impressing.

by PJ_21 on Aug 4, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Carriker had a bad year last year because

the rest of the d-line was immediately pushed 5 yards back every play. The QB/RBs had so much space on every play that there wasn’t much he could do, even though he did get into the backfield a fair amount. He was especially useful against the run as well.

One kemo and golston got injured and holliday and bryant got in at the end of the season, carriker’s productivity skyrocketed, because the rest of the d-line wasn’t getting pushed backwards.

Carriker was a first round pick, and played like it last year. I don’t agree with putting an untested rookie in above him.

by idigl7220 on Aug 4, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Good work Danny

They haven’t even gone into pads yet though right? Just shells and crap? Or are they finally hitting?

I wouldn’t put a lot of stock in anything but i love reading about this stuff anyway. Biggest concern this year is ONCE AGAIN the offensive line. Very little done to address it. Ah well, at least we have rex / beck back there and not some 1st round draft pick rookie qb we just invested our franchise into. Trust me, BOTH will see plenty of playing time behind our offensive line.

Despite that i’m still excited for the first pre season game, it’s been a looonnnnggg offseason.

The Beat Box aka skins secondary.

by Al_CaPWNED on Aug 4, 2011 12:50 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm rooting for Kelly

We need another 6 footer and Kelly fills that bill. 6’2" 215, IF, he can stay healthy it sounds like he has really worked on his hands that he could really supply a big help. Keep 6 WRs, Hankerson, Moss, Kelly, Armstrong, Paul, and Banks. FWIW on RBs, Hightower, Helu, Royster

by Kenneth Grandon on Aug 4, 2011 12:55 PM EDT reply actions  

I think Kelly's more 6' 4"

I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!

by Tiller56 on Aug 4, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

Banks does not make this team. I think they like Paul alot.
Gaffney is a lock to make this team
Stallworth may not be a lock though

Moss
Gaffney
Hankerson
Kelly
Paul
Armstrong

by KonartistNupe on Aug 4, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed

that looks like a solid WR corps. either way, our WRs are majorly upgraded from last year.

Hail to 'Em

by SkinsaneAsylum on Aug 4, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Have been hearing a LOT of positive reports about Paul from Training Camp

Haven’t realy heard ANYTHING about Banks.

Paul is a MUCH more versitile player, who has SIZE to go with his speed. He can not only handle the return duties, but will be an asset on the coverage teams as well. Not to mention that he offers more in the passing game.

Banks will not make it.

A Redskin Potato

by Mr PotatoHead on Aug 4, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

banks

i heard chris russell saying that Banks is causing some drama behind the scenes. first off he is hurt, but secondly he has been difficult to deal with per the report i heard on the Sports Fix the other day.

i would hate to see that speed and return ability leave, but if he is a locker room problem, you already know what shanny will do with him. also, if paul or someone can show promise on returns will also producing as a reciever, banks is done for.

Hail to 'Em

by SkinsaneAsylum on Aug 4, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

What would be have to complain about?

I’ve heard this too, but what reasoning would he have to complain? Shouldn’t he realize that any comments he makes basically adversely affect him and his ability to stick with a team? He really doesn’t have room to be a drama queen.

by mbedner on Aug 4, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know, right?

He should be happy he came out of nowhere to be a good return man. When i heard this report i was really surprised.

Maybe he just rubbed Chris Russell the wrong way or somthing….

Hail to 'Em

by SkinsaneAsylum on Aug 4, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Kelly has always had good hands

I think his problem has been injuries, but also that he was too slow, and couldn’t get open (no separation). The injuries may be gone, but his inability to get open may be incurable, as with Devin Thomas. He really never performed well, and on his one long pass, he got caught from behind by a third string DB. But he seems like a nice young guy, so everybody hopes he starts performing well. We’re all for him.

by Donnio1234 on Aug 4, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

true

he has to show he can get open. then again, in the red zone, it may be more about being able to out jump guys and take the ball away. We’ll see if he can do that.

by hsoup on Aug 4, 2011 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the report DShif

I think I’ll just focus on the good news for now. Awesome to hear Kelly is looking good. I heard Trent is in the best shape he’s ever been in, so hopefully it translates into a more dominant performance.

by willster on Aug 4, 2011 1:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Thanks for the article, at training camp in spirit

-we are much younger
-It’s the second year under Shannys system

IF, the oline stays healthy and qb play is atleast average and protects the ball, we can go 10-6 baby.

HTTR!!!

by Rodskins on Aug 4, 2011 1:30 PM EDT reply actions  

I just don't see that happening.

We will be trotting a lot of young players out. It will take time to gel. Expect a lot of penalties, expect a lot of errors. I think we can go 8-8 if the ball bounces our way a lot. I think we are looking at another 6-10, 5-11 season. But, frankly if we do end up like that, I won’t be upset because this, unlike any other season, seems so much more forward looking and present-centric. We are building toward 2013-2014 not 2011.

by mbedner on Aug 4, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

We tried to think positively the past two years, maybe if we think very negatively we'll be pleasantly surprised.

I just think many more fans have been sobered up and have become realist. Its refreshing really.

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Aug 4, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree...

Now when I exclaim ‘Championship!’ I do it because I’m jaded not because I believe that we can get there any time soon.

Though to be fair, I’ve never really felt like we could get there at really any point in the past ten years.

by mbedner on Aug 4, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

that awful "journalist" Mike FLorio

picked the skins to be superbowl favorites not but two years ago under Zorns second stint. I like the support Florio, but how can you still live with yourself.

He trys to make up for this FAIL nowadays by bashing the SKins every chance he can get. I saw him on NBC bad mouthing our offseason and he literrally said “I just dont see anythign positive at all happening for the Washington Redskins….no wonder the fans are leaving.”

PS – I hate Mike Florio (if you cant tell)

Hail to 'Em

by SkinsaneAsylum on Aug 4, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

now does that koolaid

go down better with a spoon fool of sugar?

by Rodskins on Aug 4, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree.

The biggest problems with the defense (free safety and NT) got fixed this offseason. Unless they fail to gel whatsoever (or cofeld fails at NT, which is a possibility), this could be the best defense in the NFC east.

On offense, our receivers are upgraded, as are our running backs. Our offensive line has continuity (which is extremely important), with the exception of rabach, who played embarrassingly awful last season.

On QB we might not have improved, but I dont see whoever starts being worse than mcnabb was last year. Rex played better than mcnabb when he was in last season.

The skins have gotten better at basically every position. And they have an easier schedule than last year.

Personally, I predict an 8-8 season, but I would be shocked if we don’t improve from last year.

by idigl7220 on Aug 4, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

turnovers

I agree that this could be the best defense in the east. Biggest concern is our LBs in coverage.

I like that we have a lot of guys who are good at forcing turnovers. If you look at film of Kerrigan, he always looks to swat the ball loose when he gets to the QB, kind of like Umenyiora.

Also, the addition of Atogwe and replacing Carlos with Josh Williams should help with turnovers. And defensive line pressure should help.

by hsoup on Aug 4, 2011 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wilson

Josh Wilson, not Williams. But yeah, getting pressure on the QB has a direct impact on turnovers.

by TheDeepBall on Aug 4, 2011 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd hope orakpo would improve in coverage his second year in the 3-4.

And that kerrigan wouldn’t be much worse than orakpo has been. It’s not assured, especially with the limited camp time, but I think it’s safe to assume that would be true.

by idigl7220 on Aug 5, 2011 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, one other comment off subject

Many keep saying the reason Shanny won a superbowl was Elway and Terrell Davis.

But with the exception of the Ravens Defense, can you think of any superbowl team that didn’t have a couple of stars?

by Rodskins on Aug 4, 2011 1:31 PM EDT reply actions  

the point is he didn't due much after

only one playoff win i believe after Elway left (maybe 2)

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Aug 4, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I understand

but what other Superbowl coaches did repeat, not many, its hard to get there in NFL. Not to mention Shanny remained above 500 after.

Just saying Shanny is not a bad coach.

by Rodskins on Aug 4, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying he is a bad coach

but people are making him out to be a great coach which i think is overreaching.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Aug 4, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah but he also got 2(atleast) first round byes

Losing in the second round of the playoffs isn’t that bad neither is going to the Conference Championship. Except for Gibbs it’s tough to think of any coach that would pass the “what’s his record without his best QB” test. Sometimes I think that metric is used unfairly.

by BayAreaBullet on Aug 4, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't disagree with you

but i think far too many people drink the Shanny kool-aid and accept anything that he says or does. I know that he has had some success with his system in the past but his obsession for big name QB’s led to the McNabb fiasco, reliance on older veterans led to ignoring the draft in year one, and UDFA in both seasons. His obsession with collecting WR’s and RB’s while ignoring O-linemen. And his ironclad view of switching to the 3-4 regardless of how ill-prepared we were, and then not making any moves to support it.

Shanahan is a great offensive mind, but as we’ve already seen, he doesn’t waver in his approach and we can get burned.

My biggest gripe with Shanahan is his obsession with big name QB’s. They are great for jersey sales, but unless you have a team around them they are a huge waste of money and resources. I’m glad to see he has learned his lesson somewhat in year two, but ignoring the O-line is pretty scary for whomever our rookie QB will be.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Aug 4, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wanted him hired

But I agree with your points re: last year. My point was I think THAT particular argument is a little misleading/inneffective. I still support Shanny and want him to get 5 years to establish some continuity but he is definitely fallible and I agree with you about the Kool-Aid.

by BayAreaBullet on Aug 4, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah but great coaches usually perform better than Shanny's non-Elway numbers

yes they are good, but they aren’t great. Look at Bill Cowher and the various QB’s that he took to the playoffs (not to mention a revolving door at every position). Tony Dungy was effective consistently in Tampa regardless of the offensive weapons, and then put the Colts over the top. Bill Belicheck built a team and not just Tom Brady.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Aug 4, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

belicheck is not great

He had arguably the best coaching staff in NFL history. what if drew bledsoe never went down? then what? people prais ebelicheck, but forget that parcells put together the coaching staff.

by back_to_the_future on Aug 4, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the argument is more that he inherited a winning team w/ very solid veterans, rather than building his SB team.

Kudos to him for getting them over the hump, but Elway may be the best QB of all-time and that team was put together by Dan Reeves then torn down by Wade Phillips.

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Aug 4, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Beck is the best of all.

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Aug 4, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

yeah it's being reported in a couple places

I don’t care but he is a recognizable name so I’m sure we are 30 minutes away from a poorly punctuated FanPost about trading for him.

by BayAreaBullet on Aug 4, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

hahaha

"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Aug 5, 2011 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

running backs

Shanahan deserves some credit for success he’s had finding running backs and making them look a bit better than they were. Shanahan is an offensive coach, and the running game is kind of a big deal on offense.

Also, Broncos won back-to-back SBs under him. I find it very hard to believe that any team that repeats does not have a good head coach.

by hsoup on Aug 4, 2011 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

he's a good offensive coach

but he’s not a great head coach, as his personnel decisions and forcing the 3-4 but then ignoring it entirely shows.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Aug 5, 2011 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yup

"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Aug 5, 2011 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

I hear ya,

I still think, he has identified his weakness and has hired Allen to help and it seems as though they are heading in the right direction.

by Rodskins on Aug 4, 2011 1:38 PM EDT reply actions  

I pray Jenkins ends up being a 2nd rd steal rather than a 2nd rd reach

and every analyst who said it was questionable bites their tongue.
QB wise, I don’t put a lot of stock into how great their practices are. Malcolm Kelly eats up our DBs but that doesn’t reflect his career. The way a No. 1 separates himself from the 2s and 3s is his ability to perform under the lights, in my opinion anyways.
People were booing Aaron Rodgers at his first training camp because he looked unimpressive. So I wanna see Beck in these preseason games before I make a judgment.
I’m relieved to see Trent Williams’ ambition, it puts to bed all our questions of his commitment I believe.
Landry’s status is scaring me. If this team is to win more than 4 games this season, all our No 1 guys need to stay healthy, esp offensive line. We just don’t have depth anywhere except maybe TE, LB, and RB, with the last being unproven.

by Dammit Cerrato... on Aug 4, 2011 2:15 PM EDT reply actions  

I believe (my opinion) that Jenkins was the reason Daquan Bowers had so many sacks!

I don’t think he was a reach at all! I think we recognized the talent, and drafted accordingly.

WR Hankerson was a steal!

I’m not sure we reached for anyone… I know some had Helu lower… but aren’t we glad we have him now?

by 1x1an on Aug 4, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Most Draft Analysts saw him as developmental NT

They didnt really examine him from the view point of 3-4 end. At 310 pounds with surprising quickness (4 blocked kicks!) hes a dangerous tweener type player.

by alwaysremember21 on Aug 4, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

im just surprised they aren't trying to put him at nose

hes got a huge frame and could bulk up to 330 pretty easy i think
but if hes killing it at DE dont fix what isn’t broken

by alwaysremember21 on Aug 4, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Helu, like Jenkins though, was a scheme pick

Helu would work better in the 1-cut and go zone running game than other backs in last years draft. and I agree with the Bowers prediction. Many have made that presumption and I think it’ll come to be the truth.

by Dammit Cerrato... on Aug 4, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jenkins

I think we made out in the draft. With the reports on Jenkins and with the signing of Cofield, I’m starting to believe we have potential to have one of the more dominant front 7 in the NFC East. There will be growing pains, but this is a very good young group, led by one of the best in London Fletcher.

by Kurtstack on Aug 4, 2011 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just for fun

With some good team additions this year, what do we think should be done next offseason assuming the roster TODAY is the week 1 roster? Of course O-line and QB should be the top of the list. What else do you guys think we need to improve upon next season to keep the team building going? I know its looking a longgg way into the future and depends on this season’s results, but think best case scenario.

by skins4life010 on Aug 4, 2011 2:15 PM EDT reply actions  

it's a good exercise

I’d say 2-3 OL, a QB are the obvious choices. Beyond that I’d say a true NT, to allow Cofield to show his versatility, an ILB with Fletcher’s age and the other position undermanned, and probably a DE with Carriker being an FA. I’d also put a big tall WR in there, depending on what we see this year.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Aug 4, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

QB is almost certainly a must

Followed by OG/C, ILB, and a OT that will be starter ready in 1-2 years. Then additional depth players.

A Redskin Potato

by Mr PotatoHead on Aug 4, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Willie Smith

is going to be the best option to start at OT in 1-2 years. I can’t see them wanting to give another tackle a long term deal so hopefully he’ll show promise. ILB could be a true need area that I didn’t even realize. If London retires soon, and Rocky on a 1 year deal that could quickly become a depth chart hole! Lorenzo could always fill in beside Riley but somebody else would HAVE to be brought in

by skins4life010 on Aug 4, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree that Smith has the potential

But it’s still WAY to early to tell if he will really work out. He may have me convinced by the end of the season, but as of now I think a solid mid-round-pick OT prospect makes a lot of sense for the Redskins’ future. And you said to base the choices on what we see now.

A Redskin Potato

by Mr PotatoHead on Aug 4, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

QB's #1

No question about it. OL is a high 2nd. CB, and ILB are others I would look at.

We can’t go wrong using at least 3 of our picks on O-Linemen. Our #2 hopefully, and then some later picks as well.

I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!

by Tiller56 on Aug 4, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

good plan

i was thinking about another solid WR but with 3-4 young guys i figured it would be a wait and see approach. Agree with the DL, i have this feeling that we still need one more solid player in that mix, if someone could really step up at NT that would make it a lot easier. Have any idea how many starters contracts are running out in the next year? I didn’t even think about that part of the equation

by skins4life010 on Aug 4, 2011 2:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Thanks for the reports, DShif.

Been following the Twitter feed as well, and it’s nice to hear what’s going on. I look forward to hearing more once Atogwe, Chester, and some otter get out there.

by Jim America on Aug 4, 2011 2:31 PM EDT reply actions  

Atogwe is already out there

At least he was on Monday when I went to TC practice. He looked pretty good too. He signed before the previous CBA expired so he was under contract already.

by mbedner on Aug 4, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great to hear about Jenkins

The Redskins have only had one Rookie of the Year since the award started in 1967 (Mike Thomas – 1975) and have never had a Defensive Rookie of the Year. Would love to see Jenkins or Kerrigan break that trend.

by BobZupcic on Aug 4, 2011 2:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Love his attitude as well

"The main thing for me is to come in here and get the plays down and get my technique right," Jenkins said. "I couldn’t show I was a rookie. I’ve got to play like a veteran. I have to learn from these older guys and I need to do it quick."

by BobZupcic on Aug 4, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow

A defensive lineman who gets it. What a relief after the Haynesworth debacle. Sounds like we have a great group that is willing to put in the work to get better everyday. Personally, I’d take that over talented overpaid drama queens any day.

by Kurtstack on Aug 4, 2011 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

via Chriss Russell

#Redskins are signing OC/G Donovan Raiola.

wanted to update you guys.
ps. nice article dshif. keep em coming.

"McGee is running the transition? I'll stop him..." - James Jones

by BM22 on Aug 4, 2011 3:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Markus White

Many thanks for your training camp insight, DShif. I appreciate that it’s very early days but I was still intrigued to see John Keim’s practice report for August 3rd and his praise for our 7th rounder Markus White:

Markus White. He’s interesting. In one-on-one work White toasted undrafted free agent Willie Smith, lining up as a right tackle. White beat him beat him three times in a row. OK, big deal. Smith will get cut. But later White went against Trent Williams, with Mike Shanahan watching. White beat him wide, staying low. They went again. White beat him again on the corner, leading to praise from DL coach Jacob Burney. Shanahan told them to do it again. This time, Williams shoved – and I mean shoved – White to the ground. "That’s what I’m talking about," Shanahan told his second year tackle. Yes, that last one was impressive but White did beat him twice.

Like I say, it’s early days but I was very interested to learn of White’s impressive double in the one-on-one matchups against Trent in particular. White is the ideal size for the OLB in the 3-4 and his lowly drafting, if I recall correctly, was due to concern over medical issues rather than ability. One to watch perhaps…

by English Redskin on Aug 4, 2011 3:03 PM EDT reply actions  

The great thing about running the 3-4

Is that you can find the right pieces for the 3-4 in the later rounds of the draft. I am interested to see how these later draft picks emerge. If we can start getting production out of picks 4-7 in the drafts, then we’ve really turned the corner as a franchise.

by Kurtstack on Aug 4, 2011 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

In my opinion, Markus White was drafted for 1 purpose.

Pressure the quarterback. He offers little else, but that’s enough if he can do it at this level.
He has 3 pre-season games realistically to make a big impression. He needs sacks and pressures in his limited playing time.

He has upside as a rush specialist if he can develope more moves. He can make a nice living just doing that. He doesn’t offer the foot speed to cover, or the size and strength to anchor to be utilized anywhere else. My opinion ony.

by JDC15 on Aug 5, 2011 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ch 4 Dan Helie says Malcolm Kelly is injured again - foot

 No word on how serious. At the risk of MagicHat jumping on me for being negative (which I’m not), it’s a little annoying to see so many medical type problems so early – Kerrigan, Landry, Moore, Henson, Torain, Kelly. And they’re not hitting much yet. Could it be the lockout, late start, lot of guys a little out of football shape?

by Donnio1234 on Aug 4, 2011 11:36 PM EDT reply actions  

bad trainers would be my guess

this is every year:( no wonder we always lose!! we got some really bad luck!

by munson21502 on Aug 5, 2011 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Injured, and contact hasn't even started yet.

Kelly and Torain are made of the same porcelain mold. Unfortunate to have that type of ability, only to be flustered with brittleness.

Every team is getting hit hard with injuries. The lack of OTA’s and full off-season conditioning programs has exposed players to premature injury. Contact hasn’t even started yet, and players are dropping. Very interesting to see how coaches handle this next month to prepare their gameplans in condensed form, while reducing the risk of serious injury to critical position players.

They may play it safe, and have less contact in practices, and play the reserves more in the ps games. The 1st couple weeks of the season may not be the most compelling television viewing as teams slowly ramp up.

by JDC15 on Aug 5, 2011 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

part of it is just football even if we had full offseasons

and Landry and Henson are still out with last year’s injuries. As for Torain and Kelly, this is the key. They have the potential, but if they can’t stay healthy they just eat up roster spots.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Aug 5, 2011 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

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