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Ten Yard Fight: Jarvis Jenkins, Brandon Banks and Sav Rocca Help Tell the Tale of Washington's Rebuild

1. I must have laid awake in bed for at least five to seven seconds last night pondering the career of Malcolm Kelly. Not because I don't like Kelly and refuse to spend more time thinking about him. Not because I foster any ill will toward the receiver. That's just all the time it took to ponder his career.

2. Fred Davis...the crown jewel of the second round draft haul that brought us him, Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly. The Redskins have really made a habit of unearthing wide receiver busts at the top of the draft. Without defending the man who made these picks, I will say that it is a real crapshoot when it comes to picking these guys high in the draft. My issue is not really based with the failure to identify good receivers at the top of the draft. My issue has been with the general failure to find viable starters in the top two or three rounds. When you are a team like the Redskins--with holes up and down the roster--you simply have to find guys who are at least capable of competing for a starting job in camp. We have been more successful finding projects. If you are the Patriots, you can afford a second round project. We can't. And before people try to start comparing Jarvis Jenkins and his injury to our run of failures in the second round specifically, please try and remember: Jenkins was not hurt BEFORE he came to camp (Kelly.) Jenkins turned heads right away with his enthusiasm and work ethic. Jenkins was absolutely going to be a major contributor in his rookie year. It's not a case of bad luck--these kinds of injuries happen and the Redskins have gotten off easy compared to other teams this August (Giants.) Jenkins is not a project. He fits the scheme, wants to be on the field and has shown a willingness to do everything he is asked. Jarvis Jenkins is not the latest example of our historic failure in the second round. Jarvis Jenkins is the first of what we can only hope is a long line of very solid, smart second round picks. I look forward to rooting for Jarvis for years to come.

Star-divide

3. Guys, we have been talking about this a lot and now I am starting to really get ansty...is Brandon Banks going to make this team? There was no player on the field last year that caused an entire stadium to rise to their feet and breathlessly wait to see what was going to happen. Yet, thanks to an army of capable wide receivers in camp, you wonder about Mike Shanahan's ability to carry a guy who won't play nmuch offense. Coaches as established and seasoned as Mike Shanahan will always place a value on specialists. They just know that the right guy in the right situation can change a game. Experience has taught them that one or two plays can not only change the outcome of one week, it can change the outcome of a whole season. STILL...I don't know. Terrence Austin has really evolved. Hank the Tank is going to make this roster (after Thursday's game, we will hopefully be able to say that he makes it based on performance.) Moss, Armstrong and Gaffney are all slated for Week One barring any surprises. As much as I thought Stallworth had no real shot, he has played with some polish this preseason and it is quite clear that he belongs in the League, making him a hard cut for a team like ours. I have a sneaking suspicion that it will come down to Banks or a third quarterback.

4. I think the real value for Terrence Austin lies in what happens with John Beck. The two have been working out together since last season. You have seen them communicate and connect well together this preseason. Whether Beck starts or ends up coming off the bench, I would expect the Shanahans to put the two on the field together.

5. Since the Giants still have to play one more preseason game, and they have been averaging about 17 injuries per game this August, it is probable we will face two different Giants' teams in 2011. On the 11th, it looks like we will get a watered down defensive line and a battered secondary to test. I would imagine the second game to feature all the usual suspects. Given we have fared exceptionally poorly against the G-men recently, perhaps it doesn't matter. But for all the optimists out there, the prospect of 1-0 is a little brighter today than it was when the schedule first came out.

6. Don't kid yourself into thinking that the Giants' current injury situation doesn't factor into our quarterback competition. If in fact we are going to get served up a nice tall glass of Giants Lite on September 11, I believe Kyle and Mike have to consider that in their thought process. Success is never guaranteed, but whichever player gets the nod, he will likely have an opportunity to cement the starting spot against a weakened opponent. Think about it the other way. If the Giants entered the season with all their studs hitting on all cylinders, you KNOW what would be likely to happen: our starting quarterback would look rough and all week following the game we would be second-guessing the starting decision. Shanahan might be forced to consider rethinking things as well. Maybe.

7. Sav Rocca is a beast. Can he play linebacker? I feel like he could be a bookie and also his own ball-busting collector.

8. Who from Hogs Haven is going to the game tomorrow? Beirut (beer pong to some of you) will be played on the barrier between F21 and F31. If you want in the Preseason Invitational, be there early and be prepared to have your teammate drawn out of a hat. That is how we do it in August.

9. Just to be clear: this is a regular season tailgate. We don't do preseason in the parking lot. All of our starters will be there and they will be playing the WHOLE TIME.

10. Great chance tomorrow to check out a team that has been in a rather successful and promising rebuild the last two seasons. Tampa Bay went young--both on the field and on the sidelines--and the results so far are very positive. There won't be a lot of starters playing for either team, but when Tampa puts its twos and threes on the field, expect to see some very solid, very youthful players. We should be so lucky to find ourselves in a similar spot in 2012.

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i got a banks jersey

Last year, and love it, I’ve met him twice and he’s a player with alot of heart…I didnt see austin having the same speed as banks, I like austin as well but he is np banks when it comes to that speed

theres no such thing as stupid questions...only stupid people

by hailyeah on Aug 31, 2011 10:19 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Nobody has Banks' speed.

But that’s because he’s half the size of most other players.

Austin has been making very impressive catches.

by SSBlitz on Aug 31, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes austin can catch really well. But something tells me they keep banks…im sure tomorrow night he’s going to go oh there and do what he does best. And if we cut him ill be pissed.

theres no such thing as stupid questions...only stupid people

by hailyeah on Aug 31, 2011 10:34 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Don't be.

Banks was great last year but it’s probably time to move on, unless we keep 7 WRs, which I don’t see happening. Moss, Gaffney, Armstrong, and Austin are locks. I don’t want to lose Hank or Paul over a UDFA kick returner.

by TheDeepBall on Aug 31, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

austin is no banks in the return game

I like austin and think he will contribute to our passing attack this year, but I don’t see him running back kicks or punts for TDs like Banks did last year. Even with the changed rules I don’t think Austin will get us the field position that Banks will.

And did I miss some big plays by Paul this preseason? I don’t remember him doing anything, but some people on here seem to love him and think he needs to make the 53 over Banks? Has he done anything yet? Will a 6th WR really contribute more than a good/great return guy? And for anyone who says Banks is not great, I would have to ask what he would have to do to be considered great?

by RobtheRedskin on Aug 31, 2011 1:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I think the problems with banks are:

1 Dimentional player that does not contribute to offense
Health concerns with the knee
New kick off rules will certainly limit his action
Influx of young WR’s on our team thru draft and FA

It’s not that Banks isn’t good or even great at what he does, it’s just that when you weigh all the factors he might not be great enough to overcome them all.

by skinsfan28 on Aug 31, 2011 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

But you would still have to figure those 4-5 touches per game...

are more meaningful than any touch the #6 receiver is going to get.

by ptowny on Aug 31, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

The number 4 receiver

and the #1 receiver in 3 years.

You need to understand we’re trying to build for the future. That means not wasting a roster spot on a guy for 4-5 touches a game now, when the guy you release is going to be a highly productive receiver down the stretch. We have 3 WRs at the moment over the age of 28, and 2 are over the age of 30. Meaning in 2 to 3 years only one of them will likely be left if any at all, and someone will need to fill that spot.

Are 4-5 touches this season worth that potential #1 or #2 receiver in 2 or 3 years, Vinny?

by TheDeepBall on Aug 31, 2011 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Austin

I honestly don’t believe Austin will ever be much of a contributer at WR for this team. Hankerson will surpass Austin during this season, and Austin will eventually be cut anyway. It’s not often you can find a return man who can change the course of the game everytime he touches the ball. In fact he does wonders for field position when teams have to kick away from him for fear of the big play. #4 WRs in this league are a dime a dozen. A top kick returner who can take it to the house on any given touch you can probably count on one hand. Much more valuable to keep an elite kick returner.

by Kurtstack on Aug 31, 2011 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't understand what you mean by number 4 receiver?

And it’s a potential 64-80 touches per season…last year he had 84 returns, 2 catches and 2 rushing attempts

P.S. How would that be a Vinny move? Are you familiar with why he was bad or do you just understand that calling someone Vinny is an insult?

by ptowny on Sep 1, 2011 6:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Since he's half the size...

it’s amazing how quickly he can change directions and maintain that speed. He’s far more important to this team than Kellen Clemens.

by ptowny on Aug 31, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can give you Physics tutoring...

$50.00 an hr. Well worth it!

"My cat's breath smells like cat food."

by HogNasty on Aug 31, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Banks

From a contribution perspective I would have to take Banks over Austin. Banks will obtain more positive yards and points for the Redskins on punt and kick returns than Austin will put up with receptions and returns. Therefore I take the guy who will gain more positive yards for my team this season.

by Kurtstack on Aug 31, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why would you want to cut the guy who could potentially be our #1 receiver in 2 years

That’s a ridiculous justification for keeping a late round project WR

Austin will have more TDs than Banks, and that’s all that matters.

Cute saying, not true at all.

Field position is extremely important, and the return man who gets you 10 more yards of field every kickoff (or whatever) is more valuable than a 5th WR who might get 2 TDs per year.

"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Aug 31, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Doesn't matter

what round Austin was picked up in.

His improvement has been steady , and consistent.

by Wyler98 on Aug 31, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, it does. It speaks to what kind of prospect he is.

Until he shows more, he’s a project player.

Mentioning him as a potential #1 in two years is a joke.

"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Aug 31, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

OK, so if he turns into a #2 even

that will still be more valuable in the future than anything Banks can produce. And stop noting him as the 5th receiver, he’s the 4th and if any of our top 3 go down he will fill in, meaning he will have more yards and points than Banks.

Round often has absolutely nothing to do with the kind of prospect a player is. Let’s take a look at some recent high draft picks on WRs and some lower round picks on WRs in the last 10 years and compare, shall we?

Rod Gardner – Round 1, bust.
Darius Heyward-Bey – Top 10 pick, bust.
Ted Ginn – Top 10 pick, bust.
David Terrell – Top 10 pick, bust.
Koren Robinson – Top 10 pick, bust.
Charles Rogers – 2nd overall pick, bust.
Peter Warrick – 4th overall pick, bust.
Malcolm Kelly – Round 2, bust.
Devin Thomas – Round 2, bust.

Between 1996 and 2005, 45 wide receivers were selected in the 1st round. 37 have been outright busts.

Now for a few notable mid-late rounders:

Brandon Marshall – Round 4
Marques Colston – Round 7
Donald Driver, – Round 7
TJ Houshmandzadeh – Round 7
Mike Williams (TB) – Round 4.

Don’t tell me draft position has anything to do with a WR’s potential for production when roughly just 18% of top pick wide receivers actually do anything significant in their careers. Austin has the potential to be at least a #2 if not a #1 in the next 2 to 3 years, and we need young guys who can produce because our current top 2 are both over 30 and our #3 is not far behind at 28. Keeping Banks over any of our other 3 Wide Receivers would reek of Vinny and would disgust me in the extreme.

by TheDeepBall on Aug 31, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also

Terrell Owens: 3rd round pick
Ochocinco: 2nd round pick

Two of the more high-profile WRs (at least the biggest mouths) in the last 10 years were not even taken in the first round. In other words, you don’t have to burn a 1st round pick (unless it’s a phenomenal talent like Larry Fitzgerald or Megatron) to get a quality WR.

by killianskid34 on Aug 31, 2011 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Keeping Banks

Is not a move that reeks of Vinny. Vinny was about the big name over the hill players. Banks is none of those. He’s a blue collar worker who carved out a role for himself in this league. That’s exactly the type of player Vinny would not go after in years past.

by Kurtstack on Aug 31, 2011 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

No

Vinny was about winning now instead of developing young guys with potential so we could build a perennial contender. You can bet if given the choice between Banks, Austin, and Paul, he will take Banks 10/10 times, because Banks represents the immediate impact.

by TheDeepBall on Aug 31, 2011 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry, did you just argue that it doesn't matter where a WR is drafted?

Do you honestly believe that?

"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Sep 1, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

History says

it pretty much doesn’t matter at all. In fact I’ll guarantee that one of AJ Green or Julio Jones is going to be a bust.

by TheDeepBall on Sep 1, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

"Why would you want to cut the guy who could potentially be our #1 receiver in 2 years"

This may be up there for the most ridiculous statement of the year. And if Austin is our #1 in 2 years we will be in very bad shape offensively.

by Kurtstack on Aug 31, 2011 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Where is this Ten Tard fight? That's messed up Ken!

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Aug 31, 2011 10:23 AM EDT reply actions  

I could fix it... but it's pretty funny

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Aug 31, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ten Tard fight

sums up most of the arguments we see in the comments sections.

by PJ_21 on Aug 31, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

hahaha +1

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Aug 31, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Two Items:

When comparing Kelly and Jenkins, it is fair to note that both have a family history of the very injury that has prevented them from playing. Perhaps Washington was able to land Jenkins because other teams had removed him from their boards.

Giants lite on 9/11 will become Giants liter later in the season. The giants are a team that lacked depth prior to all the injuries. That lack of depth will only become more acute as the season progresses and more players are injured. Giants are done.

Formerly KS and CS

by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 31, 2011 10:45 AM EDT reply actions  

A "family history" of an ACL tear

is not a history at all. Athletes tear their ACLs all the time. I used to play in a youth soccer league and 2 of my teammates tore one of either their ACL or MCLs somewhere around my U-16 and U-18 years. With big ass guys like Jenkins, I’m actually surprised this doesn’t happen even more often than it does.

by TheDeepBall on Aug 31, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Yeah I missed that. Since when is an ACL tear genetic?

"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Aug 31, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

It is a family history

whether you guys want to admit it or not. When multiple members of the same family have the same problem, that’s the definition of a family history. You know how people say you look like your father? Well, it’s not just on the outside. Everything in your body is genetic, coming from one of your parents, and Jenkins appears to have gotten his fathers ACL’s.

Formerly KS and CS

by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 31, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

his father tore his ACL, therefore it's genetic and he was prone to it?

No.

"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Aug 31, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Both his father

and his fathers brother had to stop playing because of torn ACL’s. That is a pattern. Just as with Malcolm Kelly, there is a family history of an injury that just coincidentally happens, and we are supposed to conclude there is no link?

Several members of my family have died from colon cancer, including my father. Guess what I’m going to be checked for on a regular basis.

Formerly KS and CS

by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 31, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

ACL tears have a familial component

It is likely that ACL tears have a familial/ genetic component. There are several papers looking at this. That being a given, a history of prior injuries is a much greater predictor of future injuries. Jenkins had a clean injury record, and nobody in their right mind would rule him out just because he has a bad family history. If you look hard enough you can find a reason not to draft anybody.

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/41/4/241.abstract
http://ajs.sagepub.com/content/33/1/23.full

by TongoTongo on Aug 31, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

for the record

you don’t have to be a doctor to look something up on google scholar

by TongoTongo on Aug 31, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think his ACL tear can attributed to an awkward angle/fall on the shitty/wet Baltimore turf

More so than Jenkins dad. He’s made 8+ years of football w/o an ACL injury before to point to his family history as the cause is ridiculous.

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Aug 31, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

How many of those guys he went against in those 8 years

were as strong as the people he played against every day in the NFL? None of them were. And his muscles were never as strong or attempting to move as much weight. He moved up a division, and the weak spot was immediately revealed.

Formerly KS and CS

by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 31, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

haha this is truly ridiculous

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Aug 31, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

How is this at all controversial

People here routinely talk about Kelly and his family history of injury, but bring up the same thing about Jenkins and suddenly it is ridiculous?

You can look at a person with dimples on their cheeks and know that one of their parents has dimples. You can look at a persons blood type and know what their parents blood types could have been. But assuming that a person might have inherited and ACL from their parents is ridiculous? Where did the ACL come from? Did Jesus come from on high and insert it?

Formerly KS and CS

by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 31, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's ridiculous to say he went up a level and that's what caused the ACL injury.

He didn’t face quality lineman in the ACC or against out of conference teams like Auburn. COME ON MAN! He tore his ACL b/c he’s a humongous human being who got twisted up awkwardly on some wet turf. He could of been playing the TC Williams HS JV team and the same thing could of happened.

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Aug 31, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've been saying he was genetically predisposed to it

You said that the fact that he played numerous years without an injury proves that he wasn’t predisposed. I think he was predisposed, and that yes, going up a level made a difference. NFL level players put more stress on his knee than college or high school players. Much more stress than anyone at TC Williams. Much more stress than anyone at Auburn. All of the players talk about how much bigger, stronger, and faster the NFL game is than college.

Formerly KS and CS

by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 31, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

The fact that he has ACLs makes him predisposed to having an ACL tear. Hines Ward is probably the only guy in the league that isn’t an awkward play away from missing the season due to an ACL tear and that’s only because he doesn’t have one.

This talk of genetics causing an ACL tear in a massive defensive lineman is ridiculous and pointless. Why did this happen to him? two words: $#!t Happens. Move on.

Suspend Colin Campbell!

by snowburnt on Aug 31, 2011 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

you are making a complicated subject way too simple

saying ACL tears have a genetic component does not mean that his genes “caused” the tear. Genes don’t work that way. It could be 99% circumstance 1% genes, and we can still say that it has a genetic component…

by TongoTongo on Aug 31, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brett Favre has nice genes

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Aug 31, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Flaw in your logic

It seems like you had a ninth grade science class and you are basing your whole argument off of this. For your dimple argument I say this. My oldest daughter has red hair, so you say either her mom or I must have red hair. Well my wife is a blonde and I have brown hair. But my sister has the same red hair. My oldest son has the dimpled chin. Once again neither my wife or I have this. You have to go back to my grandfather for that one. 20 years ago the world thought it was just dominant and recessive genes. We now know it is much more than just that.

And beware of google scholar. Any 17 year old kid can post a paper. It’s like referencing wikipedia.

When life gives you potatoes, make potato salad.
When life gives you shit, make shit salad.

by 64ShagginWagon on Aug 31, 2011 12:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I've never been on google scholar

and everything about your children came from some part of your or your wife’s DNA, barring a rare random or externaly caused mutation. It is possible your children are mutants, but unlikely.

There are only certain possible combinations that result from two people having a child. Two Asian people will never have a Caucasian child.

Formerly KS and CS

by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 31, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're making my point.

I know it comes from my gene pool. What you are saying is that his ACL is directly from his father and I’m saying that you are taking a way to simplistic veiw of genetics. I have bad ankles but that doesn’t mean my children will have bad ankles. You can find some genetic issue in any family tree so the skins shouldn’t draft anyone ever.

I was responding to two posts with one. See I just did it again right there.

When life gives you potatoes, make potato salad.
When life gives you shit, make shit salad.

by 64ShagginWagon on Aug 31, 2011 1:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

This just in

You know very little about genetics.

By your reasoning if an asian and a caucasian had a child it would either be asian or caucasian and if their child had a child with a caucasian it would have to be asian or caucasian.

A much more likely reason that his father and his father’s brother had ACL tears that ended their careers is that they played an extremely violent sport.

ACL tears happen and they can recover from them. If he gets it repairs and tears the other one walking up stairs then I might start to believe your bizarre theories.

Suspend Colin Campbell!

by snowburnt on Aug 31, 2011 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think your mixing up posters

with re: google scholar, and those are decent journals I posted, you can see what the impact factors are on GS… it’s a great tool

by TongoTongo on Aug 31, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not really. The advantage of google scholar is that it eliminates commercial sites.

If a person is researching professional journals this statement is nonsense – “Any 17 year old kid can post a paper. It’s like referencing wikipedia.” On some topics an article is frequently cited which indicates it has been used by other professional researchers and may actually be a seminal article of much importance. I have used google scholar extensively to research scientific and medical journals that are cutting edge.

by Jefferson1935 on Sep 1, 2011 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

nothing was the single cause

He’s a heavy guy, had an awkward plant, was playing with the wrong turf, maybe he even had a genetic predisposition to a weaker than average ACL…. who knows

to say we shouldn’t have drafted him because of his family history is certainly extreme.

by TongoTongo on Aug 31, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I agree

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Aug 31, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

But genetics comes from both sides of the family

So unless someone goes a genetic mapping of Jenkins, there is no way to know if he has a propensity towards this injury. ACLs are also the result of playing a high impact sport.

by hambonejackson on Aug 31, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just because there are studies that say family history of ACL tears make you more likely of getting one doesn't make it true.

It’s an issue of “causality” – If people have a family history of ACL tears, they probably also have a family history of being athletic since couch potatoes don’t tear ACL’s. If you are active and doing sports, THEN you are more likely to gain an injury, and that’s why the data would show a trend.

This is like saying “pork rinds cause diabetes or heart attacks.” The pork rinds don’t actually cause that. But the types of folks who eat them are generally the types of folks who don’t take care of their bodies and eat a balanced diet. And the unhealthy lifestyle is what caused the diabetes/heart attack- not a bag of pork rinds.

Issue of Causality…

by preppiejack on Aug 31, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

It certainly doesn't make it false.

Genetics are a scientific fact. This is like the tebow supporters at this point. There is no legitimate reason for the disagreement, yet it persists.

All that I have ever said is that he has a family history of this particular injury, so he is probably predisposed to the injury. What about that statement is untrue? It’s no different than saying that both of his parents had brown eyes, so he probably has brown eyes.

Formerly KS and CS

by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 31, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which is more likely

First, it was his uncle, his fathers brother, not his grandfather.

Which is more likely? That three men in the same family suffered the exact same injury due to mere coincidence or that they all share a familial trait that predisposes them to the injury? I’ve never said that the injury was definitely caused by the family history. All I’ve said is that there is a family history. That is a fact.

Certain people are more likely to get injured performing certain activities than others. We were both active in athletics. In fact, I’ve probably been more active than her. She has had multiple knee and shoulder surgeries, I have had none. She has had the same injury to her shoulder three times, while my shoulder is pristine. I think it is fair to say she is more predisposed to injury than I am.

Formerly KS and CS

by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 31, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wait it wouldn't be b/c both played violent sports? WAIT like.....football

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Aug 31, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

“If Dale Earnhardt Jr. dies in a car accident- does that make the Earnhardt family genetically predisposed to car accidents?”

I was waiting for:
“It certainly doesn’t make it false…”

by preppiejack on Aug 31, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

So there are no traits in your family

that are passed from generation to generation?

Formerly KS and CS

by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 31, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let me answer that for him: the love of flavored malt liquor

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Aug 31, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not everything can be credited to genetics...
So there are no traits in your family that are passed from generation to generation?

Is clearly not what I said. In fact in my explanation as to why the trend may appear to run in families because they are commonly involved in contact sports. I noted:

Elite size and athleticism such as with NFL players most often is genetically inherited by their parents and family, fact.

So I am clearly not denying the existence of genes or hereditary traits. I even acknowledged that I didn’t completely disagree with your point:

Did Jenkins have a genetically weak ACL with a predisposition to being prone to injury? I guess that is possible.

That to me just seems unlikely because in the end, not everything is can be blamed on genetics. A fat kid can’t necessarily blame genetics because his Mom is fat- because it’s possible that the fat bitch just kept spoon feeding him twinkies, and his end state was a result of a set of behavioral actions as opposed to a genetic predisposition.

To me that makes far more sense in this case considering that BOTH other family members of Jenkins got injured while PLAYING FOOTBALL!!!

by preppiejack on Aug 31, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is being fat genetic?

Maybe, or maybe poor eating habits and lack of exercise were part of the culture that each generation was brought into and that they passed onto their children. The result of which could be mistaken as a “fat gene.”

Is having ACL injuries genetic?

Maybe, or maybe the atheltics and contact sports were part of the culture that each generation was brought into and that they passed onto their children. The result of which could be mistaken as a “weak ACL gene.”

by preppiejack on Aug 31, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

One more example that explains why I think the causal nature of an ACL football injury is not genetic.

Example 1
A dad was born in America Town, USA wear he is a bank teller. He was born with poor eye-sight and has to wear glasses. His son is born years later with the same bad eye-sight, and the son needs glasses as well.

IMO Cause = genetics.

Example 2
A dad grows up in a small Pennsylvania town at the turn of the century where everyone works at a steel mill. From not wearing protective eye-wear at the mill and being exposed to bright hot metal repeatedly for years, his eyesight eventually deteriorates, and he needs glasses. His son was born into the same town, took up the same occupation as the rest of the men, was exposed to the same bright hot metal, and his eyesight deteriorates and needs glasses.

IMO Cause= behavior/ circumstance.

by preppiejack on Aug 31, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

And while playing football

they all suffered the exact same injury. To me, that points to a pattern with a possible weak spot with their ACL’s that runs in their family.

I’ve had very tight hamstrings my entire life. Can’t come close to touching my toes. When my oldest nephew learned to walk, he walked around a lot on his toes, with his heals in the air. It turns out that he has very tight hamstrings, so tight in fact, that it was more comfortable for him to walk on his toes. Coincidence or genetics?

Formerly KS and CS

by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 31, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

This has clear parallels to the Example 1 & 2 (bolded) that I posted immediately above this comment.

by preppiejack on Aug 31, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

#2 isn't relevant
  1. is an example of someone using a tool in the wrong way that inflicts damage. Jenkins wasn’t using his knee in an unusual way, he was using it in the manner in which it is supposed to operate.

If an auto manufacturer creates builds a car then a wheel falls off while it is being driven, then you think someone failed to tighten the bolts properly. If the same wheel falls off of 10 other of the same model of car while being used normally, you think there is a defect with the bolts holding on the tires.

Formerly KS and CS

by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 31, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Clearly though the car owner's son's car would then lose its wheels

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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by Parks Smith on Aug 31, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

HAHAHA
Jenkins wasn’t using his knee in an unusual way, he was using it in the manner in which it is supposed to operate.

No wonder everyone around my office keeps tearing ACL’s as they go to use the fax machine.

Playing football clearly stretches the “tools” of our bodies to and sometimes past their limits. That is exactly what my #2 example showed. It was and is very relevant.

I’m a mechanical engineer, and I won’t start a manufacturing or auto debate with you, but there are a huge amount of extraneous variables that you are discounting in your bolt-tire scenario. Not to mention that that trend would be incredibly ABNORMAL – to see tires coming off of a set of tires when they normally shouldn’t. However in football, ACL tears are INCREDIBLY COMMON!!! Unless of course a huge portion of football players simply have genetically weak ACLs… That would explain those injuries when they are “using them in the manner that they were supposed to operate.”

by preppiejack on Aug 31, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

+1

I should have read a little more before responding to this guy above.

Suspend Colin Campbell!

by snowburnt on Aug 31, 2011 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

No your son has to tear his and then your whole family is F'd for the next 300 years

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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by Parks Smith on Aug 31, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

It would depend on the cause of the tear wouldn't it?

If the tear occurred because I have a weak ACL, then a son would be more likely to have a weak ACL, and thus prone to injury. If the tear occurred, as it did with my mother, because of a motorcycle accident, then I would be no more likely.

We don’t know the exact cause of any of the Jenkins injuries, but there is a pattern. If Jenkins had broken his ankle, there would be no pattern.

Formerly KS and CS

by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 31, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

What you don't know is that Jenkins is an adopted test-tube baby.

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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by Parks Smith on Aug 31, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

maybe it means

You’re gonna have a motorcycle accident?

by CJHutch on Aug 31, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

If

having a dog run out into the street from behind a parked car and under the wheel of a motorcycle is hereditary.

Formerly KS and CS

by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 31, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm starting to agree with Throw it down

I now also believe that I may have super strong genetically adhanced ACL/MCL’s as No one in my family has ever torn their’s and neither have I! Infact I maybe completely immune to all the injuries that these so called “athletes” complain about.

Side note: no one in my family is a 300 LB athlete

by skinsfan28 on Aug 31, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have an idea

You should sell your super ACL’s on EBay.

When life gives you potatoes, make potato salad.
When life gives you shit, make shit salad.

by 64ShagginWagon on Aug 31, 2011 4:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Fantastic Idea, I could probably sell one to jenkins!

Fuck it I’ll throw in the other one for free and he can just have em both replaced!

by skinsfan28 on Sep 1, 2011 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

maybe this is like

Biblical genetics…like in leviticus. If you tear your ACL then your sons shall be denied a sturdy ACL for 20 generations!!!

Suspend Colin Campbell!

by snowburnt on Aug 31, 2011 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, but....

you need to check to see whether the mail man has a history…………..you know where i’m going with this

by ptowny on Aug 31, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

There are a number of recent articles citing - Tendon and ligament injuries: the genetic

component (http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/41/4/241.abstract ) which was published in 2007.

The second citation was published in 2005, but was more specific.
The Familial Predisposition Toward Tearing the Anterior Cruciate Ligament: A Case Control Study – http://ajs.sagepub.com/content/33/1/23.full

by Jefferson1935 on Aug 31, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

When life gives you potatoes, make potato salad.
When life gives you shit, make shit salad.

by 64ShagginWagon on Aug 31, 2011 2:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

+2, two really good nicknames in one post!

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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by Parks Smith on Aug 31, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know exactly what Jenkins is going through

I just got diagnosed with a torn ACL.

And typically athletes come back with a stronger ACL than they had before. So I’m anticipating Jenkins to be a stud when its all said and done.

West Springfield Spartans OUTSIDE LB #47
HTTR

by SpartanFS47 on Aug 31, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry to hear that man... get better... I hope it's not your senior year

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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by Parks Smith on Aug 31, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, what he got was

a 300lbs+ man landing on his leg, it happens all the time and has absoloutely nothing to do with family history.

It’s just bad luck and could have happened to anyone on the team. If it had happened while he was doing something simple like running you might have a case but the way it was an injury that we see often in the trenches.

by PJ_21 on Aug 31, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

did you see the play

no one landed on his leg. He was standing up blocking, then collapsed. Nothing touched his leg except the ground when he fell down.

Formerly KS and CS

by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 31, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

"did you see the play"

He wasn’t exactly standing up, he even admitted himself he was trying to react to the RB’s cut rather than stick with beating his blocker. His mind said “wait, go the other way” and 95% of his body said “ok, let’s go” But that last 5% percent said, “no, wait, what?”

by MAJSkinsfan on Aug 31, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was responding to
a 300lbs+ man landing on his leg

which never happened

Formerly KS and CS

by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 31, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

My bad

I was picturing another injury from the other day for some reason.

Even so the same can still be said (kind of) in that it was a relatively freak accident and one that can happen in the trenches. Some guys get lucky and avoid the serious injury and some don’t, it’s just football really.

by PJ_21 on Aug 31, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

that is the story

with many ACL tears. I have an orthopedic surgeon friend who says the knee injuries she worries about most (She’s a skins fan btw) are the ones when people go down with nobody touching them after a plant.

by TongoTongo on Aug 31, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

all the while

Clutching on to an old photo of their fathers’ bad knee.

by CJHutch on Aug 31, 2011 2:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

Take it easy on the giants lite talk

I can’t consider any team that has so easily handed us our derriere to ever be “lite”.
It’s kinda like natty bo talkin smack to miller lite
…whatever you get my point

The Beat Box aka skins secondary.

by Al_CaPWNED on Aug 31, 2011 11:00 AM EDT reply actions  

More like

natty boh talking smack to Smirnoff Ice.

by TheDeepBall on Aug 31, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

haha

ouch
which one are we?

The Beat Box aka skins secondary.

by Al_CaPWNED on Aug 31, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

they took the last 6 straight from the skins, even when they were in their “down” years. yes, they appear to be a weaker opponent due to injury, but its foolish to begin to write them off so soon. Look what GB did last year after having terrible injury luck

Hail to 'Em

by SkinsaneAsylum on Aug 31, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

hopefully our retooled D-line

can get pressure and we’ll see the bad decision making version of eli. i think that’s the key to getting over the hump against the g-men

by jaygo on Aug 31, 2011 11:05 AM EDT reply actions  

Banks

I would definitely take Banks over a 3rd QB if that’s what it came down to. If Clemens (or whoever that person would be) were forced to enter the game, do you actually think we would still have a shot at winning? Banks would have much more impact on a week to week basis. That being said, the fact that he hasn’t been able to make an impact on offense makes me think you have to keep Austin and/or Stallworth over him if the decision came down to those 3.

by pmpott on Aug 31, 2011 11:27 AM EDT reply actions  

This

The decision isn’t Banks vs. another WR on the roster. It is banks vs. the last man on the roster – the third string qb or another guy equally unlikely to play.

Formerly KS and CS

by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 31, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Banks Stays

Given its a generally accepted thought that the Redskins don’t have their franchise QB, is it possible that Mike goes with only two QBs which opens the slot to keep a return specialist even if he isn’t a big contributor on offense? We wouldn’t be the only team to go with only two QBs on the roster. I think Belicheck only keeps two normally. I agree that Banks was the only reason to really standup and hold your breath last year. Hopefully we’ll have more opportunities this year. I do think, if Laron can get and stay healthy, our defense in 2012 and after will be on the level of the Steelers and the Ravens.

by MAJSkinsfan on Aug 31, 2011 11:34 AM EDT reply actions  

who ever says the return game doesnt help or do anything for the offence is a idiot

 all they have to do is make up a few plays on offence that will get banks the ball in the open field as a WR. after a few big gains everytime he came into the field defences would go nuts and free up other guys for wide open looks

by munson21502 on Aug 31, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Giants Lite

Let’s be careful here. Nicks/Manningham/Eli/Jacobs/Bradshaw are all healthy and weapons that have caused problems for us in the past.

by Kurtstack on Aug 31, 2011 11:41 AM EDT reply actions  

remove Jacobs

I think we cracked the nut on Jacobs. Stop him in the backfield and he’s done. Our d-line is much improved and I think they can blow through this new o-line of the Giants. Consider this, for the last few years, no one, NO ONE, understands better than we do, that an unstable o-line kills all chance of offensive success. Look around the NFC east and tell me who has the most stable O-line. Only the Redskins have as much continuity as on the line.

by MAJSkinsfan on Aug 31, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

cracked the nut on Jacobs?

Jacobs’ last 6 games againts the Skins: 95 rushes 437 yds 4.6 YPC 6TD

You stop anyone in the backfield and they are done. That’s not cracking a nut.

And what exactly is unstable with their OL? Beatty has had a solid preseason stepping in at LT and will be their LT of the future, Diehl is now back at his natural position at LG, Baas is their top C FA signing, Snee is still an All-Pro, and McKenzie is one of the top RT’s in the league. I will give you that they haven’t had as much time as usual to practice together, but they are far from unstable.

"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next."

by Larry Soprano on Aug 31, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

My point with Jacobs

Is to keep him from getting a head of steam. Take away the interior lanes, make him move laterally and he’s not nearly as effective. He doesn’t have the cutting ability, take away interior gaps and he is not a factor and I think our additions to D-line can and will do this.

by MAJSkinsfan on Aug 31, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

make him move laterally and he’s not nearly as effective.

I can agree with this. Actually executing it though is not something that the Redskins have done effectively in the past.

our additions to D-line can and will do this

We’re just going to have to wait and see on 9/11

"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next."

by Larry Soprano on Aug 31, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

some congenital ACL factors

there has been a considerable amount of research done as to why women are more prone to suffering ACL tears than men, all things being equal.

it appears to be the geometry of many women’s knees that make it more likely that certain stresses will produce ACL tears, whereas the same stress might not cause one in a man.

if true, variability in knee anatomy may indeed be congenital and lead to some players being more prone to ACL tears

by shally on Aug 31, 2011 11:52 AM EDT reply actions  

see above

there is more direct research than what you are focusing on. by the way they also think estrogen levels may contribute to ACL tears in women

by TongoTongo on Aug 31, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are you saying

that because he got an ACL injury Jenkins is secretly a woman?

Formerly KS and CS

by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 31, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

thanks for the reference but...

thanks for the reference, but i am an orthopaedic surgeon and am familiar with the subject.. many of the ACL tears are of non-contact variety.. some go un noticed.. there is a lot of variability in presentation and impact..

by shally on Aug 31, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

i like the idea of banks over a 3rd qb

if rex and beck both go down then we call it a season and get luck next year. aint like clemons or that other dude is gonna take us anywhere. but banks can help the offence be closer to a score each time the other team punts… and to me thats well worth a spot on this team

by munson21502 on Aug 31, 2011 12:19 PM EDT reply actions  

I can't agree the Skins had problems in the 2nd round

They had their misses, but they drafted plenty of players in the 2nd round who became good football players. I think the 2nd round can be a trap in that a team can draft a 1st round talent who has some sort of flaw or perceived flaw. Teams might be more risk taking. One draft a team gets a Jon Jansen and in another an Andre Collins.

by hambonejackson on Aug 31, 2011 12:31 PM EDT reply actions  

wait...what?

One draft a team gets a Jon Jansen and in another an Andre Collins

Was one of these players supposed to be a bust in your scenario? Cuz neither was. I’m guessing your talking Collins, but he wasn’t a bust. He was a starting linebacker for us in the Superbowl. A CONTRIBUTING starting linebacker. Maybe you’re thinking of Bobby Wilson? He was a disappointment, although he doesn’t fit in your argument, because he was a first rounder.

by CJHutch on Aug 31, 2011 2:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Banks should stay

I look at the impact Banks would have on the game compared to a third QB and say no brainer. I can’t see Shanahan keeping Clemens over a bonafide play maker. I say he makes it as a specialist. B Mitchell said a couple of weeks ago that he and Mel Gray (2 of the best returners in history) both returned kicks from a 35 yard line kickoff and were effective. He is a Devin Hester type of game changer. Who wouldn’t want Hester on the Skins?

When life gives you potatoes, make potato salad.
When life gives you shit, make shit salad.

by 64ShagginWagon on Aug 31, 2011 12:56 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

I love B Mitch

Its a travesty he’s not in the hall of fame. But his argument is a little off. Yes, they had to field kickoffs from the 35 back then, but the kicking team didn’t get the running start they get now. Also, you have to take into account that kickers, like every other position, have probably gotten stronger. I can’t say for sure, but I’ll bet the average touchbacks back then weren’t as high as they’ll be this year.

by CJHutch on Sep 1, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Stuff happens
He fits the scheme, wants to be on the field and has shown a willingness to do everything he is asked.

I agree that Jenkins is all of the above. But if your point was to distinguish him from Kelly and suggest he wasn’t, I have to respectfully disagree.

As a big wide receiver with speed, Kelly unquestionably fit our scheme — which is why he got so many chances despite his litany of injuries.

As far as wanting to be on the field, though, now you’re getting into the realm of mind reading. I’ve heard no one suggest Kelly lacks the desire to play or that his injuries are suspect. It’s fine for you or me sitting here in front of our computers to complain that Kelly just needs to suck it up and play, but we’re talking about someone whose wheels are everything. If his knee, hamstring and/or foot aren’t right, he can’t play — simple as that. Until I hear someone in a position to know tell me Kelly was dogging it, he gets the benefit of the doubt from me.

Lastly, regarding the issue of doing everything he was told, didn’t Kelly hurt his hamstring last year working out on his own time during the offseason with McNabb? That doesn’t sound to me like someone who isn’t willing to put in the time or effort to succeed.

At the end of the day, the Kelly experiment has been extremely frustrating. But I don’t quite understand letting that frustration turn into anger directed at a player who’s injured through no fault of his own.

by bucfaninwa on Aug 31, 2011 12:59 PM EDT reply actions  

I never said that Malcolm Kelly was dogging it or that he was to blame for his injuries.

I was crediting Jenkins for a widely reported positive attitude. His teammates pointed it out on a regular basis and it was also circulated in the media. My comment on Jenkins was more a jab at a defensive lineman we had last season that refused to play. I thought that was clear, but I guess not. I have no issue with or comment on Kelly’s work ethic. I just like how Jenkins fit on this team.

You could consider me in a position to know. Or not. Your call. But I don’t direct any anger at players who get injured. I save that anger for Vinny.

by Ken Meringolo on Aug 31, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Edit: Beer Pong (Beirut to the old people)

Haha, just kidding. Ken, I’ll definitely be there. You guys setting up before 5? What should I bring to contribute?

by Matty Felp on Aug 31, 2011 1:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, I'll be there before 5.

bring something to put on the grill and you’ll be all good.

by Ken Meringolo on Aug 31, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sweet. I'll bring some brats.

Or whatever else I can take with me on the Metro.

by Matty Felp on Aug 31, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Keep Banks over a 3rd QB

and if the day comes we ever need to lean on a QB outside of Beck/Rex…….WILDCAT WITH BANKS AS QB!

See guys? Two birds with one stone!

Hail to 'Em

by SkinsaneAsylum on Aug 31, 2011 1:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Then Banks gets injured on the first play and we have to put Lorenzo Alexander in at QB.

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Aug 31, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haha, while I was joking abotu the Wildcat

he stand a greater chance of being injured in a KR/PR play than as a Wildcat QB

Hail to 'Em

by SkinsaneAsylum on Aug 31, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

now THAT

I’m down with. But does LoRax have to change his number when he wins the job permanently?

by CJHutch on Aug 31, 2011 2:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Crown jewel?

Just checking in here – has anyone else managed to come out of the Fred Davis trance? I mean, has anyone noticed that he’s been more or less non existent this preseason? Not that that should be a surprise, that pretty much been the story of his career, save for those 5 or 6 games when he shared the limelight with Devin Thomas.

by CJHutch on Aug 31, 2011 2:17 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Oh CJ...

In order to be the crown jewel of the second round draft picks on this team from that draft, all you have to do is outlast and outplay Malcolm Kelly and Devin Thomas.

“Crown Jewel” is not a strong enough phrase.

by Ken Meringolo on Aug 31, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

ha ha

OK, you got me there. But I think that the actual “Crown Jewel” of that draft may be Moore, just by virtuoso of actual on field time, with Rob Jackson pushing him hard.
Of course, you could consider Tryon, since he’s the only guy from that draft who’s been in the playoffs.

by CJHutch on Aug 31, 2011 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, it's preseason...

Maybe they have him in there just to work on his blocking?

by Matty Felp on Aug 31, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

im surprised that there have not been many looks or plays called that favor the TEs so far this preseason

all of us fans were having wet dreams contemplating how many two TE sets we would see with Cooley and Davis getting 100+ yds a game.

while cooley was heavily involved for most of last season, i havent seen the TE position shoowcased in the passing game this year. hopefully that is somthing we can do in the season and we just didnt want to put it on tape yet

Hail to 'Em

by SkinsaneAsylum on Aug 31, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just be patient

I’m sure the TE position will be featured during the regular season. Just maybe not all the 2/3 TE packages in the passing game we were hoping for. We’re not really game planning for the preseason and we have lots of WRs needing to get in sync with the QBs. Cooley and Davis have both been on the team for a while and we know what they can do.

by Matty Felp on Aug 31, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who is 'we'

Personally, I’m not sure I DO know what Davis can do. I mean, I though at one point I knew what Devin Thomas could do, because of what he did over a 5 or 6 game stretch a few years ago. Well, that was the same stretch where Davis “broke out”. Only neither one has done anything since. To me, right now, Davis is the Andray Blatche of the Redskins. He blew up at the end of a season when there was no one else around to collect stats, then faded back into the background once the “big boys” returned.
For me, I need to see Davis perform with other talent around him before I become a believer. I don’t doubt one bit he has the talent. But that doesn’t always get the job done. All i see right now is a guy who will show up when he is “the Man”, but if he has to share the spotlight, he wilts. And I don’t wanna hear that he hasn’t been given a chance. Malcolm Kelly already used up that phrase. Davis has been invisible now, for the most part, under TWO coaching staffs. At what point do we out that on the player?

by CJHutch on Aug 31, 2011 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

you don't think

That has ANYTHING to do with the fact that Davis is the starting TE right now? As much dinking and dunking as we’ve been doing, I have to think the TE SHOULD be more heavily involved. Both Daddy and Baby Shanny are used to having very good tight ends, AND making them a big part of the offense.
Personally, I think the TE position will become a bigger factor in the offense once Cooley returns.

by CJHutch on Aug 31, 2011 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

This is the root of my concern. I also like your opinion above about Davis not stepping up as of yet in crucial situations. Obviously, this could all change starting week 1 this year, but I expected to see the TE HEAVILY involved in our passing game with Beck/Rex in the west coast system.

You bring up a good point also about Shanny’s love for the TE. Kyle, maybe not so much, but Dad loves a good TE (see S. Sharpe). I am hoping Davis can turn into a weapon similar to Jermichael Finley in GB. However, there may be a slight difference in quality of QB throwing to Finley (sarcasm).

It will be interesting, as you say, if we start utilizing the TE much mroe often when Cooley comes back.

Here’s to hoping both TEs are productive and solid offensive threats this season!

Hail to 'Em

by SkinsaneAsylum on Sep 1, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Lil' Shanny had

Owen Daniels, who many on here think is better than Cooley.

My vibe on Davis is that he is a guy who only “comes to play” if he is the lead dog. And I don’t just mean the #1 TE, I mean the #1 OPTION, which he was two years ago after Cooley went down. Other than that, he’s been pretty much non existent in the offense. Truthfully, to this point, I think Yoder was more valuable to the team than him. Hopefully he proves me wrong this year. He hasn’t yet though.

by CJHutch on Sep 1, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Keep 6 WR and Banks...

Moss, Gaffney, Armstrong, Austin, Stallworth, Hankerson
Put Paul on practice squad and cut Robinson
Find a way to keep Banks…

by btdbomb63 on Aug 31, 2011 2:31 PM EDT reply actions  

If Dallas can keep 2 kickers....

you’d think we could keep a return specialist

by ptowny on Aug 31, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Professor ranks GrossBeck 31st QB in the league
31. John Beck-Rex Grossman, Washington Redskins

Analysis: In a quarterback-driven league, Mike Shanahan and his son, Kyle, believe scheme and coaching are everything. If this daily double gets the Redskins to the playoffs, Shanahan will be coach of the year. If not, the Redskins could be looking at Andrew Luck.

I’ll bet we can get 11 Tards on this one.

Formerly KS and CS

by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 31, 2011 3:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Well, look at it this way-

At least our 2nd QB is ranked at 31! yay depth

by Matty Felp on Aug 31, 2011 3:38 PM EDT reply actions  

SAv Rocca

I have spent two years trying to tell you guys that Aussie Punters are not being utilised correctly. IN the AFL Sav Rocca had to run, bump guys, place tackles on guys and as a tall marking forward he was EXPECTED TO BE AN ENFORCER.

Why Special Teams coaches do not utilise this skillset continues to drive me insane.

MOst Punting units have 10 tacklers/Chasers plus a guy who kicks the ball. With Sav Rocca we have 11 athletes who can chase and tackle, this SHOULD be an advantage if our coaches can look beyond their prejudices and see the opportunity that Sav presents to the team

Pommylee

by Pommylee on Aug 31, 2011 8:49 PM EDT reply actions  

fred davis a crown jewel lol lol lol thats a good one

lohaus #54

by lohaus#54 on Aug 31, 2011 10:17 PM EDT reply actions  

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