Nostradamusing the Redskins 53-man roster (2.0)
An early look at the Redskins final 53-man roster
QB (3): Rex Grossman, John Beck, Kellen Clemens
· Not saying that Grossman has played like Aaron Rodgers, but he has "won" the competition to this point. Sure we "know" what Grossman is all about and therefore the unknown aspect of Beck screams potential, but lack of experience right now is another factor. Beck starting against the Giants, based on where we stand now, means the fix was indeed in.
That's not to say Beck has played poorly, cause he hasn't…I still say all three quarterbacks make the squad. Sure that horrid late game pick against the Ravens didn’t help, but Clemens is a useable piece playing behind one roller coaster option (Grossman) and one that remains largely unproven (Beck).
RB (3): Tim Hightower, Ryan Torain, Roy Helu ®
FB (1): Darrel Young
· At some point you wonder if Torain’s injury history catches up with him and puts him much closer to the wrong side of the cut line. For now he survives…for now…Keiland Williams offers the intangibles that winning team’s need, but running the ball is not one of them. If four pure running backs are kept, I still lean toward Evan Royster. Shanahan better be convinced Penn State’s all-time leading rusher will land on the practice squad if he lets him go. I might guess Shanahan is keeping Royster under wraps so other teams don’t get a better look, except the rook figures to receive plenty of reps against the Bucs.
WR (6): Santana Moss, Jabar Gaffney, Anthony Armstrong, Terrence Austin, Leonard Hankerson ®, Niles Paul ® ; Brandon Banks to injured reserved list
· Banks’ lingering knee injury could shut him down, though he is expected to play in the preseason finale. Should he stick around, Paul would be odd man out IF Redskins think he makes the practice squad...If Banks is done for the season, the final spot comes down to the rookie Paul or veteran Donte Stallworth. Ironically that battle really could hinge on the play of another rookie. If coaching staff feels Hankerson is consistent enough with hands and route-running, to be fourth receiver/red zone target, the Redskins might be willing to keep another greenhorn at receiver. Otherwise Stallworth’s experience wins out...Austin was already in near-lock status for me, didn’t need another strong game to solidify (but liked it all the same)… Paul and Aldrick Robinson have practice squad written all over if they don’t make the opening game roster…
TE (3): Chris Cooley, Fred Davis, Logan Paulsen
· Still saying Mike Sellers is shown the door, though he’s been counted out before and survived. If Cooley’s injury drifts into the season, then Sellers stays and Davis has a chance to shine.
C (2): Will Montgomery, Erik Cook
G (4): Kory Lichtensteiger, Chris Chester, Artis Hicks, Maurice Hurt ®
T (3): Trent Williams, Jammal Brown, Sean Locklear
· More stunned by play of the offensive line than any other unit on the team. I get the defensive front-7 improving, several players were added, but only Chester is new here…Adding a 10th offensive lineman is certainly an option once teams begin making significant cuts... Hicks’ versatility, Cook and Hurt’s youth rewarded with final three spots… Second-year offensive lineman Selvish Capers did not see the field against the Ravens. Hard to impress when you don't play, so I'm told.
DE (4): Adam Carriker, Stephen Bowen, Kedric Golston, Darrion Scott; Jarvis Jenkins ® to injured reserve
NT (2): Barry Cofield, Anthony Bryant
· Perhaps a seventh lineman (Doug Worthington?) is kept now that Jenkins is out. Philip Daniels remains available after the Redskins set him free following the end of the lockout…Seventh-rounder Chris Neild still has a long way to go if he wants to pass Young on the depth chart.
OLB (5): Ryan Kerrigan, Brian Orakpo, Lorenzo Alexander, Rob Jackson, Markus White ®
ILB (4): London Fletcher, Rocky McIntosh, Perry Riley, Keyaron Fox
· The competition for the inside spot next to Fletcher appears over with McIntosh the victor, though Riley and Fox look secure with the reserve roles, meaning Horatio Blades is likely taking his non-initial name elsewhere… Not one natural 3-4 outside linebacker in the bunch. That could give the more experienced Rob Jackson an edge over the rookie White and newcomer Thaddeus Gibson. With injuries elsewhere, keeping nine linebackers might simply be the case of holding onto the best 53 with one eventually losing his roster spot when others return to the field…White and Gibson could land on the practice squad, something to ponder.
CB (5): DeAngelo Hall, Josh Wilson, Kevin Barnes, Byron Westbrook, Reggie Jones; Philip Buchanon to suspended list
S (5): LaRon Landry, O.J. Atogwe, Reed Doughty, Chris Horton, DeJon Gomes ®; Kareem Moore to PUP list
· With Buchanon suspended the opening four games, the Redskins could keep a fifth corner. Seventh-rounder Brandyn Thompson put himself on the radar with his pick against the Colts, but Jones racked up eight tackles against the Ravens…Landry is still dinged, but appears closer to returning than Moore, who’s headed to the PUP list. That would give Horton new life; I think the Nebraska rookie Gomes finds his way on the roster somehow, someway.
K (1): Graham Gano
P (1): Sav Rocco
LS (1): Nick Sundberg
Notes…
· This projection has eight of the 12 draft picks making the squad and the other four – Royster, Robinson, Neild, Thompson - appear to be practice squad material. The final number could be closer to seven if angst over keeping so many kids kicks in…
· If space is needed elsewhere due to injury or the discovery of additional talent, the ninth linebacker spot looks to be the most vulnerable, perhaps corner or fullback.
· As for Malcolm Kelly, sigh…
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Nice 53 man list...here's mine
QBs (3) Beck, Rex, Clemens
RBs (3) Hightower, Helu, Torain. Royster to PS until Torain is hurt again
FBs (2) Young, Sellers (Versatile FB/TE, core special teamer)
WRs (6) Moss, Gaffney, AA, Austin, Hank, Paul. Banks IR’ed
TEs (3) Cooley, Davis, Paulson
OT (4) TW, Brown, Locklear, Smith
OG (3) Kory, Chester, Hicks. Hurt to PS
C (2) Monty, Cook
DE (4) Carrker, Bowen, Worthinton, Scott
NT (2) Cofield, Bryant. Neild to PS
OLB (5) Rak, Kerrigan, Jackson, LoAx, White
ILB (4) LFB, Fox, Riley, Rocky
CB (5) Hall, Wilson, Barnes, Westbrook, Thompson. Cut Buchanan, Shannon to PS
S (4) Landry, Atogwe, Doughty, Gomes. Horton cut, Moore to PUP
K Gano
P Rocca
LS Sunberg
@Callahan_9 on the twitter machine.
I like most of this
I would take out Thompson, and add in Jones. Take out Hicks, add in Hurt. Take out Torain, add in Royster.
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
I don't think
Grossman has really outplayed Beck. I think it’s been about even. I think Grossman CAN get into more of a rhythm, but Beck’s mobility is a big plus. I also like how Beck bounced back from that INT. Grossman is more of a bad to worse situation when he gets going in that direction.
I defintely think Beck is a better QB
the team just plays more “fired up” when he’s on the field. I don’t know if you noticed, but the Skins couldn’t get anything done for Rex’s first 2 possessions. Then Beck comes in, throws a 33 yard completion to AA, and huge holes open up for Hightower to take it 37 yards to the house. The team really rallies around John Beck. He’s their clear leader and if he doesn’t start week 1 Shanahan will have made a huge mistake.
by TheDeepBall on Aug 27, 2011 6:57 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
You know what you get with Grossman
13-15 TD’s, 10-13 INT’s, and a bunch of sacks. He’ll make some nice intermediate throws, but then make some that just make you say “what the Fuck was that”. He is a poor thrower of the deep ball, and is not mobile at all.
Beck gives you better leadership, better mobility, a stronger arm, a better deep ball, and the “unknown”. He could be good, he could stink, but why not take that chance now. We already know what we have with Rex, so wouldn’t it be more prudent to give the unknown a shot?
With greater risk comes greater reward.
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
I like Rex more than most do, and think maturity could cut down on his mistakes a lot
but Beck is clearly faster and more mobile – a big factor. The question could be, can John throw long? That pass to AA, as good as it was, could have been better – if it had been longer, AA could have caught it in stride and gone for the TD (that’s what I saw, but would welcome anybody who saw it different). Rex and Beck both look pretty capable to me.
The pass to AA was perfect.
Not sure what you mean.
Beck threw the ball 50 yards in the air on that INT, and it didn’t even look like he was trying, and the ref was being a dumbass and stepping in front of him. Beck’s arm is undoubtedly better than Rex’s.
How do you put Ryan Torain as #2
when he has yet to play a preseason game? Helu leads the league in rushing, followed closely by Hightower. All Helu has done is come in and busted his but, and show he can be a difference maker on this offense. Is it fair to put an injured Torain, who has barely practiced, and has yet to play a preseason game, ahead of a young promising rrookie, who has done more that whats been expected of him to this point? IMO, every position on this team should have to be earned(I’ll give a guy like Landry a pass). Since Torain has just 8 starts under his belt in three years, he should by no means get a pass. He needs to earn a spot on the roster, and to this point, he hasn’t.
Would it be fair at this point to put Kelly ahead of Hankerson or Austin?
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
Torain
IF Torain is on the roster, he figures to be the No. 2 RB simply because he’s not going to help you in other ways (special teams). However, I think Helu is the best bet to be the second-most productive runner on the team.
I don't disagree with you
But you really have something against Torain don’t you…?
by BigOLinemen on Aug 28, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Not at all
I recognize an area where we need an upgrade, saw that we have the upgrade, no expect us to implement the upgrade. I’m just very sick of being average/below average at many positions. Too many people are willing to settle, because they are use to us being that way fro so long now. I personally am sick of it.
I was the same way with JC. Didn’t hate the guy at all. Just thought he was never going to be any better than what he was, which I felt wasn’t good enough for us.
Personally, I expect much better than average from this team moving forward.
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
Read the elusive running back information later in this thread. Torain not only was not average but was exceptional
by overall NFL standards. Your appraisal of Torain is entirely not objective.
by Jefferson1935 on Aug 28, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Ryan Torain's 2010 performance has been quantified by PFF. The problem is the appraiser not the player.
Pro Football Focus Elusive Rating – This is one approach to objective RB rating.
There are a number of categories PFF has put together in tables for RBs in the 2010 season.
"The Elusive Rating itself
But that’s enough of the raw numbers. On to the magic formula. The Elusive Rating formula begins by combining carries and receptions to give a ‘ball-handling opportunities’ figure. We then combine forced missed tackles in both the run and pass game to find a total number for forced missed tackles, which is then divided by the ball-handling opportunities. This number is then multiplied by a player’s yards per carry after first contact figure (x100) to get our final number. Confused yet?
The magic formula: (MTrush+MTrec)/(Rec+Att)(YCo/Att100)" http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/03/24/elusive-rating-2010/
By three of the four measures PFF has developed, Ryan Torain was ranked in the top ten in the NFL in 2010.
Yards After Contact Percentage, Top 10 – Torain was ranked 9th in the NFL.
Player…….. Team Att. Yds YCo YCo / Att. Yco%
Ryan Torain WAS 164 744 536….. 3.3.. ..72.0%
Forced Missed Tackles per Touch, Top 10 – Torain was ranked 6th in the NFL.
Player…….. Team Att. Rush.MT Rec. Rec.MT Total MT MT/touch
Ryan Torain WAS 164.. 28……. 18….. 4………. 32……. 17.6%
Elusive Rating, Top 10 – Torain was ranked 3rd in the NFL.
Player…….. Team Att. Yds YCo YCo / Att. MT Rec. Rec.MT Elusive Rating
Ryan Torain WAS 164 744 536….. 3.3….. 28….18…. 4…… 58.0
by Jefferson1935 on Aug 28, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
by Jefferson1935 on Aug 28, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh dear
you seem to think that his running is the main thing we are arguing against him with.
It is not.
Since you’re such a big fan of PFF stats, Torain was bottom 10 (7th worst) in pass blocking efficiency last year. He runs a 4.61 40, which is the slowest among our RBs, with the exception of Shaun Draughn, who is going to be cut soon. Torain is extremely one-dimensional, no question about it. He is far from a complete RB, and with his injury history, I don’t see how you can make a case for him to stay.
The case for Torain to stay is now based on his performance as a runner. The PFF stats prove than he
was exceptional in 2010 which is the only season that he performed to any extent. You want to cite his 40 yard time, but omit the 10 yard split where he is in the middle of the pack for Skins runners and also better than Adrian Foster’s time. To excel as a runner with ZBS Foster is proof that a player does not need to be exceptionally fast at the position. Hence your speed argument is void. When it comes to Torain’s injury history Shanahan knew full well what that amounted to before he signed him. Consequently, with Shanahan the injury history argument is void. No doubt Torain is one dimensionally as a RB to the degree that he isn’t a good receiver and pass blocker. Before the 2011 season is over your may have to change your assessment because Shanny is going to stay with him. As for shvd98z24’s comment runners of Royster’s quality are a dime a dozen in the NFL but durable and reliable qualities aren’t enough, i.e., Rocky Cartwright.
by Jefferson1935 on Aug 28, 2011 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
First off
Blocking is a big part of an RB’s game. Hightower may have had a bad stat (though still better than Torain) but he also was working behind an equally poor OL with QBs who held the ball for far too long with no mobility. Torain was working with a guy who is at least capable of escaping pressure when it comes. There are a lot more factors in the game than the stats show.
Also, Torain was 7th worst, HT was 11th worst, not 6th and 9th.
That is the reason I want Royster over Torain, because in college he showed he could block and block well.
Also, the Foster argument holds no water. Torain is nowhere near Foster’s level. And it’s “Arian” Foster, for future reference.
by TheDeepBall on Aug 28, 2011 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
so blocking is THE stat for RB’s?? what was your take on Portis then? you know, the “supreme” pass blocker…
how does the Foster comparison “hold no water”?? cuz you say so?? your the one who quoted Torain’s 40 time… now when another quotes another speed time you denounce it?? apparently Torain IS on Foster’s level in atleast one category…
there are 4 parts to an RB's game.
>Speed
>Elusiveness/Power
>Blocking
>catching.
Torain has 1. Foster has 3, and he does those 3 very, very well.That’s why the Foster comparison holds no water, because Foster has one deficit while Torain has 3. I already made a post about this kind of ridiculousness in the Rb philosophy thread, I don’t feel like typing it again.
Oh, and for Foster's pass blocking
he was about 25% better than Torain was in that category last season, so don’t even start with the rankings.
I'm not comparing Torain with Foster, but I think you're missing out on Torains main strengths...
One of the most important attributes for a RB is the ability to read his blocks and see where a hole is opening infront of him, something that I think Torain did very well last year, behind a mediocre line.
While he doesn’t have break-away speed and he’s only a below average/average blocker and receiver, he finds the hole and churns out yards, a good compliment to Hightower and Helu.
I just wish he wasn’t made out of glass…
Beck to the future!
by The Shanaplan on Aug 29, 2011 7:38 AM EDT up reply actions
One of the most important attributes for a RB is the ability to read his blocks and see where a hole is opening infront of him, something that I think Torain did very well last year, behind a mediocre line.
This is what seperates good college backs from great ones. Once you get to the NFL, you better have this, or your not lasting long.
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
Foster was among the 15 worst running backs in pass blocking efficiency. The Foster
comparison does hold water. Why do you chose to ignore the facts? It is deep mucky rather than deep ball. Muck out the stall.
by Jefferson1935 on Aug 29, 2011 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Stats
Lets look at guys who PRODUCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
According to your little stats, I’m sure the writers really fucked up the All-Pro team this past year. I’m sure you can statistically find much better options for the NFL top 100 player’s list too.
How do you feel these STATS are being measured? Someone has to be analizing these right? Is this person(s) words gospel?
You go ahead and choose what you want to believe, and ignore the obvious, while the other 99% of the living, breathing football world continues plodding along.
Happy hunting!
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
Oh my god
I already noted he was, but he had to deal with a lot more attempts (a side effect of being healthy for a whole season) and he was 25% better that Torain was at it, or the equivalent of 1.25 Ryan Torain’s blocking abilities. That is, out of 4 equal pass rushes, Foster would give up one less pressure than Torain. Do the math yourself, if you don’t believe me (6.25 (Foster) / 8.49 (Torain)).
It astounds me you somehow failed to take note of the comment above where I specifically noted how much better Foster was than Torain, in spite of Foster’s “Bottom 15” ranking. A 6.25 pressure rate is poor, yes, but an 8.49 is HORRENDOUS.
by TheDeepBall on Aug 29, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Nothing in the bottom 15 is saying much. Now you are spliting hairs.
by Jefferson1935 on Aug 29, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
There are some people on HH that are wannabes. They have spent much time
trying to find out all the ins and outs about football, but they still remain wannabes. As a last resort they might volunteer to be a high school football coach when their real objective was to be a professional in some capacity such as an assistant scout. Yet they have reached their final destination in football wannabe land, but they aren’t even 35 years old.
by Jefferson1935 on Aug 29, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure where you're going with the "wannabe's" comment
but on this I am certainly not splitting hairs. Splitting hairs would be if Foster was only marginally better than Torain at pass blocking. That is not the case.
Anyways, the one stat you’ve given me as an argument (elusiveness) would imply that Torain is better than the likes of Steven Jackson, Arian Foster, Adrian Peterson, and Peyton Hillis. Are you going to tell me that’s the case? Yeah, Torain’s right up there with such legends as Fred Jackson and Mewelde Moore.
Compared to Ray Rice, Ryan Torain’s pass protection efficiency was about midway between Hightower and Rice, hence given the extremes it is marginal in the bottom 15 players. In your original cite of this article you omitted references to anyone but Torain, yet comparisons are part of the discussion on whether Torain is or isn’t a complete RB.
“the one stat you’ve given me as an argument (elusiveness) would imply that Torain is better than the likes of Steven Jackson, Arian Foster, Adrian Peterson, and Peyton Hillis. Are you going to tell me that’s the case?” On the table of “Forced Missed Tackles, Top 10”, Torain is not listed. This was the the only table that Torain was not in the top ten of the four tables presented.
On Arian Foster: “There is no doubt that Foster was a very impressive rusher, but it’s equally true that he benefitted from some very good, often overlooked, run blocking by the Texans up-front. Foster may have noteworthy raw numbers (and the league rushing title), but he only placed 32nd in the Elusive Rating with a score of just 32.4. His total of 49 combined forced missed tackles was only bettered by five other half backs, but he took 393 touches to rack up that number.” The Texans only added Smith (guard) to their offensive line from 2009 to 2010. This supports my contention that the RB in well functioning ZBS teams such as the Jets and Texans in 2010 do not get appropriate credit compared to the RBs. This has been true of the long runs by Hightower and Helu in 2011 when they had no contact. Yes, based on the concepts used in the "Elusive Rating, Top 10 table, Torain was more elusive than all the RBs, but LeGarrette Blount and Fred Jackson. Mewelde Moore was rated as 9th because he did not have that many touches (33).
“Elusive Rating 2010” -
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/03/24/elusive-rating-2010/
" Yards After Contact – A truer measure of a ball carrier?"
From one of the PFF’s forums: http://www.profootballfocus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=243 (2009 yards after contact) Includes comments.
by Jefferson1935 on Aug 29, 2011 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Speed argument in the NFL is never void
Hence your speed argument is void
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
Comparison of Skins RBs in pass blocking efficiency.
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/06/17/2010-pass-blocking-efficiency-running-backs/
All of the current RBs on the Skins roster where measurements are available fell within the bottom 15 in 2010.
Torain 9th, K. Williams 7, and Hightower 6. There is nothing to boast about when comparing the Skins RB is this metric.
by Jefferson1935 on Aug 28, 2011 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
A stat you keep missing......
Torain has only played in 12 of 48 games in his career……2/3 of his games played last season…..also not a full season. We need guys we can count on to be there. Our roster isn’t there yet…..we don’t have the luxury keeping injured guys around (Banks or Torain). If Torain makes the squad….I am fine with it….he was fun to watch when healthy……when healthy. I just don’t want him making it at the expense of a young guy like Royster who has shown his entire career (yes…college) that he is durable and reliable. I know this is a different league…..but Torain hasn’t shown he can be depended on to be there when we need him! Let a team that has the talent to be able to afford the luxury of him have him.
I am ready for some Redskins mother f&%$ing football!!!!
hes practicing now…. he has yet to miss any reg games in 2011…
question, what if Royster injured an acl and hed to miss this season?? what if it was Helu??
If they were going into their 4th season....
after missing 36 of the possible 48 games their 1st 3 seasons….I would have the exact same stance!
I am ready for some Redskins mother f&%$ing football!!!!
My eyes tell me what the stats don't
If you believe that Torain is elusive, I can tell you I’m Bill Gates, and I want to give you 5 million dollars……………all you need to do is provide me your SSN, and bank account number. I’ll take care of the rest.
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
It is all on tape. Your eyes are misleading you. Sorry!
by Jefferson1935 on Aug 28, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
And yet
you failed to comment on the part where he’s slow and bottom 10 in the league in blocking.
“Elusiveness” is only one aspect of an RB’s game.
Check out the RB measurables. No doubt that Helu is the fastest. Other Skins runners' times are not
decisive.
Ryan Torain – http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=67844&draftyear=2008&genpos=RB
Roy Helu – http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=70324&draftyear=2011&genpos=RB
Evan Royster – http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=66308&draftyear=2011&genpos=RB
Tim Hightower – 4.59 (Pro Day), 1.59 10-yard dash, 2.63 20-yard dash – http://www.40-yard-dash-times.com/tim-hightower-40-yard-dash-time.html
Adrian Foster – http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=33673&draftyear=2009&genpos=RB
by Jefferson1935 on Aug 28, 2011 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Jefferson
a 4.61 for a RB is not good. Now add in the fact that he tore an ACL in 2008, and missed all of 2009, and you have to assume that injury didn’t make him any faster.
Here’s a stat you seem to be missing:
Torain is going into his 4th season in the NFL. In his first 3 years, he was injured 4 times. Let me repeat that. 4 TIMES!
Here is another stat for you:
Torain has been in the league for 3 years. He has been cut twice. Let me repeat that; TWICE!
Might as well give you one more:
In Torain’s 3 years in the league, he has been on a teams practice squad twice.
Now your a smart guy. Does this sound like the type of RB you would want on your young football team?
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
Hightower's 4.59 proday time was 8 tenths of a second slower than Torain's. Torain's pro day time
was .18 of a second faster the Arian Foster’s pro day time. Arian Foster and Hightower did not have combine times. Granted that pro day times do not provide for the same running conditions such as do combine running measures. Given these limitations there is no indication that Torain is slower than two other significant RBs.
by Jefferson1935 on Aug 29, 2011 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
a 4.61, combined with an ACL tear, usually results in someone being pretty slow
Personally I could are less, as we are talking about a guy who is going to be irrelavent to this team anyways.
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
There is no reason that Torain can not perform up to his 2010 level. Shanahan will keep him.
by Jefferson1935 on Aug 29, 2011 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
1/2 of his 2010 year
was as a starting RB. I don’t think he sees that here this year. If he makes the team, his carries will be limited.
With the recent comments Shanny made about “knowing what he can do, BUT, he’s gotta stay healthy”, I have a feeling he may be expendable.
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
Torain has been in the league for 2 seasons (2008 and 2010) going on 3… what 2 teams had him on the PS? he has reg games under his belt in Denver in 2008 (2)… he was out in 2009… he was with us in 2010(i think we put him PS once.. maybe twice)
him being put on PS during his start in the NFL would make him not unlike Royster (assuming he goes to PS), correct
Can't make that assumption,
as Royster has yet to be placed on the PS, and has not been injured.
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
Yet just one more aspect that Torain is lacking in
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
Fascinating discussion here, but I have to side with Jeff
because Ryan did some terrific running for us last year, without the greatest O-line. He earned a spot. It seems unfair to cut him for injuries, because by assumption, if he’s injured again, he’ll be gone, one way or another. So assume he’s healthy, and if he is, he’s a solid RB. The blocking is a problem. Seems to me that Hightower, Torain, Helu, with Royster PS, is the obvious solution.
Unless Torrain wants to elsewhere
I can’t see the reason to cut him. What if something happens to Hightower? Sure would be nice to have Torrain at that point. I expect the Redskins may keep Royster as well. They are a running team so lets load up on those running backs.
by hambonejackson on Aug 28, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Torain strictly for his knick-name thats the best knick name in the League right now
Seriously who has a better one?:
Adrian Peterson: The Cashier / AP
Chris Johnson: CJ2K
Calvin Johnson: Megatron…thats pretty cool but not that original
La. Tomlinson: LT…comon man get your own knick name
Ryan Torrain: ATV All Torrain Vehicle, comon thats quite original and its awesome because who doenst like ATVs
Kelly is having the same recurring injury.. his hamstring.. its always something leg related… you cant compare him to Torain…
he had 9 starts in 3 yrs. to be exact (1 in denver) and thats 9 more than Helu… if Helu has earned the 2nd spot based on his preseason experience then Torain has earned it based on his preseason (over his career) AND reg game experience…
I think Torain will definitely make the team and that Royster is destined for the practice squad. Of course, Royster will most likely be called up when Torain inevitably gets injured. Again.
To speak to your point though: Helu is more of a change of pace from Hightower than Torain is and that might bump him into the number two spot. I don’t actually think it matters all that much as Hightower (barring injury or a return of his fumbilitis) is going to get the lion’s share of the carries on this team. I think we will see both Torain and Helu spell him depending on the situation.
Have you seen Hightower run?
He is like Marion Barber. He definitly trucks people.
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
ive seen him out run and juke a few folks… dont recall him literally running people over as much as i do Torain..
Go re-watch some of his Cards highlights
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
This team will find a way
to keep Smith on the O-Line. He has played both OT spots this preseason, and IMO, looked better than Locklear. Smith is our “diamond in the rough”, and has a chance to take over for Brown in 2 years. I’m not so sure Hicks has his spot on lockdown, as Locklear can also play G if needed, and is a better option that Hicks at this point.
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
clemens a waste of roster spot
i dont think that clemens has done anything to justify a roster spot and would far prefer to keep someone like paul, or neild or smith who can actually develop into a player in a year or two
face it, keeping just 2 qb’s makes a lot of sense because if you are down to your #3 qb, you seldom are going to end up winning that game.. and if you lose both your #1 and #2 qb’s for any length of time, you are playing for next season anyway.
i say roll the dice with just rex and beck and keep one of the rookies who wont slip through to the practice squad
by shally on Aug 28, 2011 3:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
i agree
Use that spot for a 6th WR (Banks)
"It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing Milkbone underwear." - Norm Peterson
by Kevin Ewoldt on Aug 28, 2011 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
No thanks
I’d rather hold on to Moss, Gaffney, Armstrong, Austin, Hank, and Paul. If we put any of the 3 young guys we have on the PS they’ll be snatched up immediately. Banks is not worth one of them IMO.
by TheDeepBall on Aug 28, 2011 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't see why we wouldn't be keeping 6 WR's anyways
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
Thaddeus Gibson
No mention him either on the practice squad or the final 53. Is he still around or do you see him getting cut?
Gibson is mentioned
as being in the chase for the final OLB spot and practice squad
Pittsburgh wants Gibson back. He would not stay on a practice squad long.
by Jefferson1935 on Aug 29, 2011 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
and if that is true...
we need to keep him on our roster, b/c this guy will develop into a great rush backer. Rob Jack has played himself onto the roster, yet he is as good as he is going to be. Thad has a ton more potential.
Chappell is a good practice squad candidate
I doubt he’d make the roster as the 3rd QB though. It would take a hell of a game this week to do that. But I have little doubt he’d make the PS.
Chappell is the kind of QB all teams need to run opponents plays during the season. He does not have to be on the
53 man roster to do that. In the meantime the experience won’t hurt him.
by Jefferson1935 on Aug 28, 2011 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Throwing this out there...
Cut Paulson, keep Sellers and Banks.
by liger99 on Aug 28, 2011 8:51 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
0% chance Paulsen is cut
We need him…grat blocking TE…can catch.
"It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing Milkbone underwear." - Norm Peterson
by Kevin Ewoldt on Aug 28, 2011 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Keep
Paulsen, and let go of Banks and Sellers…
by Big Spoon on Aug 28, 2011 9:38 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Sellers is one dimensional
and Banks window has slammed shut due the rule changes, so therefore I don’t think neither one can benefit the organization.
Actually Sellers is very versatile
He’s just old
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
Versatility/Special Teams are big considerations
That will make a difference with who we keep and let go.
That’s why Sellers is valuable and Banks is not (for us)…
"My cat's breath smells like cat food."
No way
Ive got westbrook in front of barnes…also im noy sold that grossman is the starter, I would give the edge to beck because he can get the ball downfield, better at reading defenses, and he doesnt panic when the blitz comes
by mr.snyderhireme on Aug 29, 2011 12:17 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

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