Looks Like Someone Has a Sixpack of the Mondays
by Ken Meringolo on Aug 15, 2011 9:48 AM EDT
in Looks Like Someone Has a Sixpack of the Mondays
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Print1. While I refuse to get too carried away over a preseason game, it is currently the only action which we can judge our team on thus far and therefore most reviews this week will be generally positive. That said, I am still rather blown away. I have watched over half of all of the preseason games thanks to NFL Network and I think this is the truth: Not many first units looked as good as ours did in the first week of the preseason.
2. You know what I saw that stood out the most when I watched Washington on Friday night? They had a sense of purpose. It was like they knew what they wanted to do. On offense, there was a lot of style and efficiency. On defense, it looked like it wasn't our first day on the job. Cue the chorus: "But it's only preseason." For the upper echelon teams in the NFL, progress is rarely made in the first week of the preseason. For teams like the Redskins, progress is a life or death necessity in the first week of the preseason. Progress was on display last Friday.
3. I have asked you all this question before: What chances does Mike Sellers have of making this team? Right now, they don't look so good...unless--and I don't like this thought at all--Chris Cooley's injury is more serious and lingering than everyone thinks. Darrel Young looked pretty good, and while I spent little time analyzing his blocking performance, it would be fair to suggest he factored in the success of our rushing attack.
4. We have all by now heard the rumors that Chad Ochocinco and Albert Haynesworth could be released by New England prior to the season. I personally don't believe that but let me state for the record that Chad Ochocinco would NOT be a good signing for our team. Sure, he would be an upgrade talent-wise. But our team right now seems to be thriving on their budding identity--that of a hard-working, under-the-radar group. Bringing in a guy like Chad would throw that off. Further, I don't think he would make our offense that much better. By that, I mean that our offense will go as far as our offensive line takes it. Santana Moss, Anthony Armstrong and the receiving corps that surrounds them will be able to handle the load on the outside just fine.
5. Today's game will be the "I can't believe we passed on that guy in the draft"--a game everyone loves to play. You all know how much I loved our draft and so you all should know that I play this game just for fun. That said...Robert Quinn looks like he is going to be a major player in this league. I watched the Colts-Rams game and I kept my eyes firmly planted on #94 for the Rams when they were on defense. He is very impressive and I would be shocked if we aren't watching highlights of him all year on ESPN. He went 14th overall, so we did have a shot at him. Was there a player that you saw this weekend that made you think: "We passed on HIM!!??"
6. I blame myself for Hankerson's miscues on Friday. I put too much pressure on him and it simply wasn't fair. I am easing back on the throttle this week in the hopes that the kid relaxes a bit and starts to make some noise. His development and success are crucial to our rebuild. Hank the Tank will get it figured out. Bank on it.
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If Fred Davis is not the starter this season
I will loose all confidence in this coaching staff. Unlike the opinion Steveo had on him, I though he did a great job at blocking. He also looked extremely fast, and sharp in his route running. By the way, dude is is some serious shape. I don’t know what impact, if any, this will have on Sellers, but his presence should have a direct impact on Cooley.
We are a better football team right now with Davis on the field. He has turned himself into one of those coveted hybrid TE’s.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
I believe Fred Davis and Jermichael Finley are a part of the future of that position
by KonartistNupe on Aug 15, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
You're right
San Fran is just off the map to me. He and my sister used to date when they both went to Truesdale Elem in NW DC.
by KonartistNupe on Aug 15, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
John Keim says his route running is still unproven.
That’s the type of thing that’s keeping him off the field.
Shanahan’s not going to play a guy based on raw talent, and I wouldn’t want him to.
Davis has to prove he’s a starter, prove his worth.
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I know its preseason
but I wish he would’ve caught that dart that Grossman threw. He did kind of leave him out to dry though.
by KonartistNupe on Aug 15, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
exactly
I don’t understand why people continue to annoint this guy before he proves himself. Frankly, if two coaching staffs have kept him off the field, then I’ll remain skeptical until I see some consistency from the guy. What’s funny is, he didn’t even stand out the other day. I could see if he had some sort of breakout game.
Anyway, I’m glad Shanny isn’t as rash with his decisions as some would like him to be. I don’t foresee Davis starting unless Cooley is out injured.
by CJHutch on Aug 15, 2011 12:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
some people get very excited to throw out the old and jump on the next great thing
it’s a poor way to make decisions sometimes.
Chris Cooley is by a wide margin our best TE until Davis proves or shows otherwise.
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I agree. I love Cooley as much as the next guy but we cannot continue to pretend that a slow TE who I can’t remember ever making a down field block is more valuable than a guy who can break the game open at anytime.
by Jeff Bernard on Aug 15, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Obviously
the guy with the second most receptions at the TE position is completely worthless. Brilliant statement.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 15, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
never said he was worthless, i think he is worth about a 3rd or 4th round pick
by Jeff Bernard on Aug 15, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
That's crazy
A third or fourth round pick is a guy who is 50/50 to impact the team in his second season. Cooley is easily top 10 at his position, perhaps top 5. Look at this years third round pick – is Hankerson worth Cooley?
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 15, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I love Cooley, but he def. isn't top 5, and likely isn't top 10
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Have you looked at the players?
He was second in the league in receptions. 22 more than the guy in 11th. You can’t name 10 better TE’s right now, and would be hard pressed to name 5.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 15, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I could name about 15 tight ends I'd rather have than Cooley...
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I'd like to see it
I’ve looked at the list. Immortals like Aaron Hernandez, Brent Celek, and Tony Scheffler were in the 16th range in receptions last year.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 15, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
there is a lot more than receptions that makes up a TE
not to mention receptions are representative of opportunities
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
So name
the 10 guys you would rather have. He’s an elite receiving tight end. Guys who can block are a dime a dozen. Guys that are elite at both are exceptionally rare.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 15, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
alright, though this is in no certain order
Witten, M. Lewis, and Z. Miller are the two way threats.
Gates, Finley and V. Davis are all easy choices over Cooley
Pettigrew had a great year last year and should continue to get better, so yes going forward I’d choose him. And Tony Moeaki looks to be the real deal as well.
Dallas Clark and Kellan Winslow don’t block either, but both are probably better receivers than Cooley (though I prefer Cooley’s price to Winslow).
And Daniels, H. Miller, and Keller are all right there as well, and you can make strong cases for one or all being above Cooley.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
I'm not talking about statistics, that is just a product of the supporting cast last year.
At this point, if I’m starting a franchise I would take all these guys over Cooley:
- Witten
- Olsen
- Finley
- Rudolph
- V. Davis
- Shiancoe
- Pettigrew
- Gresham
- Keller
- Winslow
- H. Miller
- Z. Miller
- Clark
- Gates
- Graham
- Daniels
- Lewis
- F. Davis
- Moeaki
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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For a young team I might take Martellus Bennett over Cooley also...
I’m talking about someone that helps the team in 2013 not 2011.
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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Well, that's a list
with no credibility. Martellus Bennett is a joke, right? Cowboys were very unhappy with him last year.
Davis and Winslow both lack the key ability of Availablity. Not any better if you can’t play.
Gonzalez used to be better, but this is likely his last year. No one in the league would take Gonzalez over Cooley at this point.
Rudolph is a rookie who’s never played a down.
Most of the rest of your list is a joke.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 15, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
there are at least 10 legit names above Cooley though
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Its my opinion, how do you lend credibility.
You haven’t backed up your point at all. All you’ve done is point to that he was 2nd in receptions last year and refute everything Steve or I says.
Brandon Lloyd lead the league in recieving last year. Does that mean he the best WR in the NFL? Top 5? Top 10? Hell no…
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Yeah but
By that same token, how do you include Pettigrew, Finley, Z. miller, and Fred Davis? None of them haven proven consistency.
miller and Finley are top line TE's without a doubt
Pettigrew is right there as well
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
???
comn throwitdown… take your fan cap off for a minute man.. i luv Cooley to death too but there are a plethora of great TE’s in the league now-a-days… Cooley is no longer in the top 5.. he might have fallen out of the top 10 and if he hasnt hes barely in there hanging by a thread at the 9/10 spot…
i get most of your list but Shiancoe and Olsen i disagree with
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
To me it's just so hard to compare TE's though.
TE’s serve so many purposes. There are so many guys on this list that are completely different types of players that serve different roles.
In my opinion, I just dont think we could ever get the value out of Cooley in a trade that we can get from his production..
Great point.
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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PLUS
Id never take Clark over Cooley.. Just because his first name is Dallas…
wait wait wait
‘starting a franchise with’ and ‘talent today’ are two very different things
CC is 29 so obviously he won’t rank high on the first list.
But on the second, it his firmly entrenched in the #8-12 TE range, depending on what offense he gets to play in.
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
This is pretty much where I fall on Cooley.
Top 5 was definitely a hyperbole. However, he IS definitely one of the better starting TEs in the league.
To be fair
You can’t really include rookies. Nothing proven there.
I also woudn’t include someone who’s been productive for less than two seasons. Next, you look at the reason everyone is saying Cooley is expendable – his age.
And finally, for me at least, I look at the teammate aspect.
So, here’s my question, are you talking about guys you would rather have NOW, or guys who are just plain better? I’ll give you that most of these guys are probably better than Cooley, but I wouldn’t trade him for more than half of them. Forget about the rookie. Gonzalez, Witten, Gates, Clark, H. Miller and (I believe) Daniels are all older, so I wouldn’t take them over him. Winslow you can keep, he’s a knucklehead. Finley, Pettigrew, Rudolph, and DAVIS, haven’t shown they can be as consistent as Cooley, so I throw them outta there. In my opinion, Cooley is better than Olsen and Keller (and both Millers). Daniels and him are probably a wash, so I’d stick with the status quo there.
I won’t even comment on the Bennett thing. He’s the Cowboy’s Devin Thomas.
Cooley was also 1st in fumbles and 22nd touch downs so one stat does not make him untradeable.
by Jeff Bernard on Aug 15, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
The only thing more tired than the trade Cooley argument is the Cooley is a top 10 TE.
1. Cooley has ZERO value in a trade
2. Cooley isn’t a top 10 TE
Hope that settles it.
@Callahan_9 on the twitter machine.
for talent right now, not in the future, not 10 years from now, Cooley is easily in the 8-12 range
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
where
a guy who can break the game open at anytime.
Does this come from? Is it because “he’s ripped”, like everyone keeps saying? Who the hell cares what he looks like. Devin Thomas (another wasted 2nd rounder who was overhyped) was pretty canned ripped too. Look where that’s gotten him.
What I’m guessing is that this line of thinking is based off what he did for half a season a few years ago. Aside from the drops he had that year, what stood out to me was his ridiculous penchant for leaving his feet. I’m hoping he’s cured of that. Aside from that, he looked great. He looked great over a partial season, on an awful team with no other weapons. Which basically makes him the Andray Blatche of the Redskins.
by CJHutch on Aug 15, 2011 1:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I blamed you for Hankerson's play as well.
every time he dropped a ball I shouted “fucking Ken and his god damn lofty expectations, just let the kid play!”
by skinsfan28 on Aug 15, 2011 10:02 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Here is one for you
I watched the entire Pats game. How the HELL did we pass on Ryan Mallett? Best arm I’ve seeen in the pros. Good accuracy on Thursday night, and this was behind a O-Line that was shaky at best. Now granted, it was against the Jags 2nd and 3rd teamers, but the kid has all the tools to be good(some of a coach, knows the game well, competitive, best arm in the NFL, good accuracy, great size, showed good pocket awareness). He did all these things in college too. Just not sure what people were missing here.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
Cocaine is a hell of a drug...
How the HELL did we pass on Ryan Mallett?
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by Parks Smith on Aug 15, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I knew someone would say this
Ryan Mallett would struggle in DC. Tom Brady is quoted as saying he’d likely be a 3rd stringer somewhere if it wasn’t for the Pats, Belichick, and the opportunity to grow and learn behind Drew Bledsoe.
Are you saying the same thing on Michael Vick? No other team could have gotten that success out of Vick (make him a film room junkie, 5-star PR job, etc) than the Eagles and maybe 1 or 2 other teams.
If Mallett was a Redskin, that means we would have taken him instead of Jenkins or traded up from 79 (who knew where he was gonna fall…maybe Shanny woulda taken him there).
BUT, Mallett has the luxury of low expectations and doing his learning curve in the background. If he was in DC…media would be him on every day, he’d have Rex Grossman and John Beck as his mentor, and half the fan base would be demanding he start today. It wouldn’t work.
"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made." -Groucho Marx
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by Kevin Ewoldt on Aug 15, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Completely agree, +1
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by Parks Smith on Aug 15, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Your missing out on the intangibles though
Thats what scouts look at. Thats why the Pats have the best scouts in the NFL, and are consistantly at the top; they know what to look for. They will turn this kid into a pro bowler in 5 years.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
The difference is if he was in DC then he'd be out of work in 5 years...
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by Parks Smith on Aug 15, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Who says he won't be even playing in NE?
ONE Preseason game does not make a future HOFer…. the Redskins know that themselves. We’ve had preseason warrior QBs over the years (*cough Shane Matthews *) who were poo in the regular season.
No Danny, Nooooooo - Tom Landry, 1982., and Washington Redskins fans, 1999-
The intangibles are he was a mess off the field at Arkansas. Your QB has to be your hardest working player. Bringing in a guy like Mallett day 1 wouldnt work unless he has stability and leaders on both sides of the ball to set him straight (hence the Pats).
"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made." -Groucho Marx
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by Kevin Ewoldt on Aug 15, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
For a team lacking a true QB
he could have been a value where he was drafted. I know you don’t think too highly of Shanny, but he does run a pretty tight ship, and has been know to do OK when it comes to QB’s.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
I think what Kevin is saying has nothing to do with Shanny.
It has to do more with the make up of this roster and the DC media. Mallett can sit back in NE and stay in the shadows for a couple of years. Where as if he was in DC he would be the front page story every day.
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by Parks Smith on Aug 15, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
He'd have to sit wherever he went
at least for a while. I agree, his situation in NE is ideal, and it prob wouldn’t have been in DC, but thats not saying it couldn’t have worked in a few years.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
People would be clamoring for him every day.
It would be Colt x2. Look at the buzz John Beck has drawn and think of what Mallett would of drawn. Mallett would be treated and greeted like a superstar here, where as in NE he’s a grunt just trying to hold Brady’s jock strap.
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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by Parks Smith on Aug 15, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
the thing is though that isn't the case
Mark Sanchez should have been sitting, yet the Jets trot him out every Sunday, compare him to Josh Freeman who did get the luxury of sitting 8-10 games.
Now I think Mallet needs like a Rivers treatment of 2 years (at least) and that just wasn’t going to happen in Washington.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Aug 15, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Shanny is not going to play a guy who's not ready
If Mallett was ready, he would have played, if not, he would have sat.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
He played McNabb and he wasn't ready...
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by Parks Smith on Aug 15, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
what makes you think that?
He started Brian Griese for 14 games in his 2nd year, and he obviously wasn’t ready.
And he started Cutler the last 5 games of his rookie year. Now in fairness Plummer’s numbers weren’t that good, but the team was 7-4 under him, and went just 2-3 under Cutler. Denver missed the playoffs by one game that year, so it is very possible it cost Denver a playoff spot.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Aug 15, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Tiller is conveniently forgetting Mallet's lack of mobility. The Skins' OL looked OK in the Steelers
game, but that pass protection blocking in a sense is not proven beyond that one game. I hope Tiller does not get as hyper with his “favorites” as he was before the draft. In two seasons he was been harping on getting Cooly on some other teams’ roster so Davis could play.
by Jefferson1935 on Aug 15, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Tiller...Brian Hoyer looked even better than Mallet? Why aren't you talking about him?
We passed on him 7+ times.
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by Parks Smith on Aug 15, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
With all due respect, "intangibles" is the dumbest word when referring to the draft or an NFL player
JaMarcus Russell had “intangibles”, hell the whole Raiders roster does.
Intangibles is just a word used as an excuse when you take a risk on someone or they end up sucking, mainly b/c you can’t quantify “intangibles”. If Mallett ends up never touching the field then you can say “but he had intangibles and the risk was warranted”…
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by Parks Smith on Aug 15, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
There is no denying Mallet's talent
It was only his character that was in question.
I don’t know if Mallet would have been successful or not here in DC. What I can tell you, is that he’s an extremely talented QB, who knows the game well, and has every trait you’d look for in a QB to be successful at ythe next level.
We’ll have to wait it out to see what happens with him.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
You know who has a lot of intangibles? Terrell Pryor
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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by Parks Smith on Aug 15, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
his intangibles are negative man
im not that impressed by the tangibles either
by alwaysremember21 on Aug 15, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Terrelle Pryor and Mallet shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
Brian Hoyer should look better
he’s been in the offense longer. And, IMO, Mallett showed much more weapons than Hoyer will ever have.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
But hypothetically shouldn't Mallet's "intangibles" trump an undrafted 3rd String QB?
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by Parks Smith on Aug 15, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I think they did
plus some. Like I said, I watched the whole game, and was not at all disappointed with Mallet. He exceeded even my high expectations. There were times he actually threw the ball too hard from 20 yards away. How may QB’s can you say that about. His accuracy was great. Pocket presence was exceptional, especially when he used the side step, and shoulder dip. You know he has been watching and learning from Brady.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
Totally wrong
I saw his “pocket presence” against Jax a few times, and it was what I has seen during his time at Arkansas. He’s not a runner, but he’s not a statue either.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
I think extremely highly of Shanny
Not sure why you think otherwise.
"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made." -Groucho Marx
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by Kevin Ewoldt on Aug 15, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
dang...sarcasm meter duly adjusted.
"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made." -Groucho Marx
Hogs Haven. On Twitter..
by Kevin Ewoldt on Aug 15, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm gonna play the waiting game before I get too upset about Mallett.
He looked very good in his preseason action. Personally, I agree that he’s got the tools to be a good NFL QB. Still, it’s just one preseason game, and we have yet to really see if any of Mallett’s off-field concerns—really the main knock on him—will come into play in his career.
I woulda been okay taking Mallett in the 2nd. I woulda been pretty happy getting him in the 3rd (if the Pats hadn’t). That being said, I’m happy with what we got instead.
Ken, I'm agreeing with you on Sellars. It looks like it's out with the old.
But if Sellars is cut then who is the backup FB? Keiland Williams? Paulsen?
I think he makes the squad b/c of ST and the fact that there isn’t a viable back up at this point.
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I do love him on special teams.
I also just like hanging on to him until the bitter end of preseason in case we have an injury.
by Ken Meringolo on Aug 15, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I love what this team is doing
We Redskins fans have a tendency to place our love for the specific player ahead of progressing to a potentially better player. As time goes on, we will learn to love those players who replaced the ones who have had a special place in our hearts!
by KonartistNupe on Aug 15, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I did see Keiland get a couple reps as FB late vs Steelers.
"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made." -Groucho Marx
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by Kevin Ewoldt on Aug 15, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Have you mailed my Gano jersey yet?
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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by Parks Smith on Aug 15, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
The Redskins Store customer service said they need 2-3 weeks to glue on the rhinestones.
"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made." -Groucho Marx
Hogs Haven. On Twitter..
by Kevin Ewoldt on Aug 15, 2011 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
exactly
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by Parks Smith on Aug 15, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't know much about his blocking ability
But I like Keiland in that role. I just don’t see a HB role for him right now.
by KonartistNupe on Aug 15, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
He looked like shit at FB
totally out of place. Me thinks he’ll be cut.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
He stinks at RB thats for sure.
"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made." -Groucho Marx
Hogs Haven. On Twitter..
by Kevin Ewoldt on Aug 15, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I find it hard to believe that he will be cut
He made some huge plays for us last year.
by KonartistNupe on Aug 15, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Why is it hard to believe
Hightower = total package – can run up the middle, can go outside, runs hard, has speed, can block, can catch
Helu – Can develop into a weapon. Great speed, good hands.
Royster – Can be the 3rd down back
Torain – ? Cant stay healthy
Where does Williams fit in? He’s not a power back. He’s not a speed back. We have guys at RB with better hands. We have guys at RB who block better.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
agreed....
he was one of the guys I pointed out to my girlfriend that I kind if liked, but is probably on his way out the door.
Because
I think that Shanny will find a way to mold him into a better fullback. Darrel Young was a LB who became a full back and look where he is now. I think that Shanny could do the same for Keiland. It won’t be that much of a transition for him as he is already a HB.
by KonartistNupe on Aug 15, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't know if we keep 2 FB's
Especially considering Paulsen could line up there in an emergency.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
That makes sense
Tell me if there is a way that we can keep Banks
by KonartistNupe on Aug 15, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes
But I believe he’ll have to be a special teamer, and just that. I think we keep 6 WR’s, with the 6 being:
Moss
JB
Hank
Paul
Armstrong
Austin/Robinson/Kelly
Maybe just keeping 1 FB, will help BB make the team. Also Locklear being a awing OT could help open a spot too. 3 RB’s should be on the roster, and Torain and KW could find themselves on the outside looking in. There is however a chance we keep 4. There is a chance BB could make this roster without being one of the 6 WR, but we’ll have to see if it’s worth loosing a spot somewhere else to do so.
Aslo, Danny Smith loves the kid, so that may help. Smith is well respected.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
Shanny said something interesting last night
While watch sportsnet, he was asked how he felt about Banks injury. He said something along the lines of just kind of resting it throughout practice and being ready for week 1. I don’t want to read too much into it, but for someone who isn’t guranteed a roster spot, that sounds like a vote of confidence from the head coach.
by KonartistNupe on Aug 15, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
wait are you saying the keep 6 WR's and Banks??
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by Steve Shoup on Aug 15, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
They keep 6 WR's
I said I don’t quite know how Banks fits in yet, but I don’t see him as one of the 6 true WR’s
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
yes but you said he will be kept as well
Keeping 6 WR’s is tough enough no way they keep a ST only guy as well.
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by Steve Shoup on Aug 15, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't rule anything out with this team just yet Steveo
e have a lot of guys who have the ability to play more than one position.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
Look at it this way
53 spots:
3 already go to ST (K, P, LS)
leaving 25 each for offense and defense (sure you can swap one here or there)
On offense guaranteed:
3 QB’s (I can’t see them going with just two)
3 RB’s (could be 4, but 3 are a lock)
1 FB (could be 2, but again 1 is a lock)
5 WR’s (could be more)
2 TE’s (likely will be 3)
7 OL (this should be 8 or 9, but 7 is the bare minimum)
That leaves us with 4 offensive roster spots, and if we add a 3rd TE, 8th OL, and say that between RB/FB another spot will go, that leaves us with just one. Now it could be a 6th WR, but you could make a case for the other RB/FB or a 9th OL, as well. And if that 6th WR is not Banks, how does he make the team.
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by Steve Shoup on Aug 15, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Banks
Will be the 6th receiver then. Unless he gets hurt, you cant get rid of a guy with that much playmaking ability.
Whats the average number of punts you get during a game? 3-4? That means 3-4 times a game, with Banks, you have the opportunity for a big, game-changing play.
by StephanHart on Aug 15, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
yes but you have to weigh what value Austin/Paul/etc. give
If Banks averages say 13.0 YPR, but they average 11, is it worth it? Banks might have a better chance of taking one to the house, but it isn’t as though others like Paul and Austin can’t.
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by Steve Shoup on Aug 15, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Well Tell Me
How many yards and TD’s were contributed by our 5th and 6th receivers last season?
Compare that to Bank’s return stats
by StephanHart on Aug 15, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Umm that would be 10 yards b/c Banks was our 6th WR.
KR will likely be close to non-existent this year. Banks didn’t score a PR touchdown last year and like Steve said its two more yards on average. Also Austin did just as well as Banks on PR.
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by Parks Smith on Aug 15, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree and Disagree
Agree that KR’s will be limited compared to last year.
However, Disagree…even with limited KR’s, Banks is still capable of ripping off a huge one anytime, as shown by Friday night’s game
by StephanHart on Aug 15, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
but we could be cutting KR's in half this year
The NFL said they expected it to be just a 20% reduction but the first preseason week told a different story.
And the Banks lone KR, was a significant risk. You take that risk in preseason, but in a regular season game, unless we are down it is a big risk.
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by Steve Shoup on Aug 15, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it's fair to say that the amount of touch backs
will come down as the season wears on, just from the kickers legs getting tired especially some of the older guys.
That and
the better coverage squads will tell the kicker not to kick it through the end zone, hoping to tackle the return short of the 20.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 15, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
And risk getting it at the 40? I don't think so...
If Banks is such a tremendous threat then why would even a good coverage team kick to him when they can blow it thru the endzone?
You guys are grasping straws to justify keeping a KR.
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They obviously wouldn't do it
against the top returners. But against an average returner, and you’ve got a top coverage unit? They’ll do it. Hell, there were teams that kicked to Devin Hester when he was a threat to score every time.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 15, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
So how are you trying to use this as a point to keep Banks?
They obviously wouldn’t do it against the top returners.
Also since kickers legs get tired later in the season, Banks legs may get tired… Come on guys these are some lame excuses.
I just don’t see a need to keep a 1-dimensional, injury prone player.
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I wasn't arguing for Banks
just saying that some teams will choose not to kick it through the end zone, despite the ability to do so.
An argument for keeping banks would be Brian Mitchell. Mitchel returned for the team when they kicked off from the 35 and was a valuable weapon who regularly lead the league in total yards.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 15, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Try Again...
When they changed the rule (post 93) BMitch average 5 more yards on KR and had 9 out of 10 seasons with over 1,000 KR yards. Pre-93 he never had more than 678 yards.
Every year he lead the league in All Purpose Yardage was post 1993.
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yes but before you weren't kicking it out of the end zone. It is one thing to return a kick 3-4 yards deep in the end zone like Hester can
but quite another to return 8-9 yard deep kicks.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Are you kidding?
1) They’re kicking the same amount of times as in the past
2) Did kickers/punters wear down in the past?
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KR are def still going to take it out of the end zone.
I have watched some of almost every preseason game this week end and have seen many impressive returns that started out as deep as 7 yds in the end zone.There have even been several for TDs. I agree a KR will not be as crucial as in previous years but i think it will still be a huge part of the game. When you have a guy as good banks is at his job you find a way to keep him on the team. Maybe you only go with two quarterbacks on the roster or what ever. I also think guys such as banks or cribs will be constantly given the green light by their special teams coach to make something happen on kick returns. These prominent returns have a ton of pride in what they do and i think will develop a mind state saying “fuck it, I’m going to take this shit out and make something happen”. I think analyst before the season expected KR to be a non-factor but after the first week of preseason action that is clearly not the case. It is obvious that teams are adapting to the rules and see the reward of breaking a big one greater than the risk of only making it to the 15yd line. Obviously many kicks will be placed out of bounds but then again many will still land in play, which will allow guys like Banks to still do their thing.
This is b/c its preseason and most guys are trying to make the team.
I have watched some of almost every preseason game this week end and have seen many impressive returns that started out as deep as 7 yds in the end zone.There have even been several for TDs.
If you’re a borderline player, are you going to take a knee?
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yes that is true
but i saw many with first team guys such as Banks. Randall Cobb who was the first team returner for the packers had several solid returns against the browns. He took it out of the end zone every time he got a touch and netted a good gain. He is just one example i can think off the top of my head. A great kick return is something that can completely change the momentum of a game and it’s outcome. It is even more valuable for a team like the Redskins that has questions marks over how the offense is going to produce this year. Put Banks name in ink, he will be on this roster when we play the Gaints
Since when is Banks a 1st Teamer?
Randall Cobb certainly isn’t being cut, but its also his first NFL game and the coaches are going to let him loose just to get a feel for the NFL and the job he’ll be performing. Regular season is a totally different situation.
You’ll likely see many returns in preseason, it will change dramatically in the regular season.
Banks is not a 1st Teamer and he HAS to return kicks just to keep a job at this point.
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He is on first team kick return and punt return
He is a top 5 returner in the NFL. He has a job in the NFL because he is spectacular in the return game.When ever Banks gets the ball everyone in fed ex rises to their feet. It a great feeling to know something special can happen every time he has a touch. A coach obviously looks for utility in a player but when a guy like Banks is so damn good at what he does it does not matter. The dude is straight up electric
Just look at the make up of the guy. He is 5’6, as thin as a rail and is playing in a league with monsters. He was undrafted and had to get to where he is though heart and had work. No body gave him a chance at making it in the league given his size This dude has a huge chip on his shoulder and is going to bring it every sunday. He didn’t have the luxury of being drafted like paul or robinson. He has had to scrap for everything he has been given. Something has to be said for someone who started at the bottom and had to climb his way up. All this kid does is prove people wrong. People said the new kick off rule would decrease his value and then on friday night he busts out a 58 yd return. I think everyone in the skins locker room has mad respect for Banks and what he does on the field.
Let me ask you a question. Do you think Bank will not be on the final roster? Or is it just your opinion that you think his value has decreased and his role could be picked up by a guy like Austin?
How is Banks a top 5 return man in the league?
He finished tied for 8th in kickoff return yardage, and tied for 11th in PR average. He could be amazing but there is no guarantee.
As to answer your question. I think without being a ‘fulltime KR’ due to the new rule, Austin/Paul/Stallworth are more valuable to the team and that really puts Banks on notice.
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by Steve Shoup on Aug 15, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
ok Cobb only had two returns
and one was from the 1 yard line so there is no touchback possible. As for the other one, the return was for 32 yards, but he caught it 4 yards deep in the endzone so he got just plus 8 yards from just kneeling it.
Now 4 yards deep is doable, but 8+ is highly risky.
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by 'several for TD's'
you mean 1 right?
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
wow i have to disagree with you
Banks is already amazing and he may not statistically be a top 5 returner but he deserves to be in the conversation.All I’m saying is that i guarantee Banks makes this team and makes a huge impact on the field. I will even guarantee he impacts the product on the field more than stallworth, austin and paul, all through special teams.
it's tough b/c some guys don't do both (at least full time)
but Hester, La’Ron Stephens Howling, Brad Smith, Leon Washington, Spiller, Jacoby Ford, Marc Mariani are all right there. Josh Cribbs had a down year, but i’d still bet on him. Eric Weems and Stefan Logan are just as good if not better as well.
You also have young guys like McCluster, E. Sanders and B. McCann who could be just as good.
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i like banks as a pure returner better than a few of those guys.
As i said Banks will impact the product on the field more than any receiver not named moss, gaffney or armstrong (sorry hank, you can’t have drops) and will do it through returns. It doesn’t matter if he is not as polished of a WR, he’s to good at what he does. Shanny knows this and will make sure he is on this team.
by rainmanc345 on Aug 15, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
not a fair comparision
Roydell Williams and Joey Galloway don’t compare to this year. Guys like Hankerson, Paul, Stallworth, Austin and Robinson all can contribute in the passing game if they are our 5th and 6th WR’s. And they can contribute on various other special teams.
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by Steve Shoup on Aug 15, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Very Fair Comparison
The point is that 5th and 6th receivers don’t usually contribute very much…
by StephanHart on Aug 15, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
but we can use them on guys like Paul, Robinson, Austin
(assuming the top 4 are Moss, Gaffney, Hank and Armstrong) who can contribute down the road. Gaffney and Armstrong are both 30 year olds under control for 2 more years, and Moss is only signed for 3 more seasons.
That also assumes a guy like Stallworth doesn’t win a spot (yet another guy with Special teams ability)
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by Steve Shoup on Aug 15, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
eff Stallworth
and I don’t foresee Hankerson helping much this year. At least not early. We’ll definitely keep him, but I think Paul will be the rookie receiver who makes the impact.
by CJHutch on Aug 15, 2011 1:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree that Paul could make the biggest contribution among the rookies
but the point remains there isn’t really a set spot for Banks.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Don't forget the new 46 active rule
and the emergency QB change. That could help out a guy like Banks.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
it could, but it doesn't help him make the 53 man roster
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by Steve Shoup on Aug 15, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Why are you certain that LS isn't going to be a backup on the OL?
No Danny, Nooooooo - Tom Landry, 1982., and Washington Redskins fans, 1999-
b/c Sundenberg doesn't play the OL
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by Steve Shoup on Aug 15, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Then maybe Nick needs to learn, or we need on of the backups to start practicing Long Snapping.
It might not be possible to keep a LS seperate if we want to keep a PR/KR seperate.
No Danny, Nooooooo - Tom Landry, 1982., and Washington Redskins fans, 1999-
well i agree that would be nice, but it isn't going to happen
he is 6’0" and weighs 250lbs he can’t play OLine
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by Steve Shoup on Aug 15, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
By the way...
I love Hightower and Helu
Royster is solid
by KonartistNupe on Aug 15, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
well we don't necessary need to keep a backup FB
not too many teams do. If we decided to keep 4 RB’s and 6 WR’s it would be near impossible to keep 2 FB’s.
Personally I’m fine with Williams as a backup FB, sure he is on the smaller side, but Shanny has done this before with Mike Anderson. Williams is still a solid pass protector and can be okay in lead blocking. He has good special team’s utility and can always fill in at RB if need be.
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by Steve Shoup on Aug 15, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Solid point...
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by Parks Smith on Aug 15, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I just can't see...
us keeping a total of 6 RB+FB. Sure, we could keep Keiland as a sort of combo FB/RB, but he’s still gotta beat out somebody else. Hightower, Helu, Torain, Royster, Young, Williams is too much.
that is kinda my point
if we keep 6 WR’s (which looks likely) it is either 4 RB’s and 1 FB, or 3 RB’s and 2 FB’s. Williams does do a lot more for the Skins when it comes to special teams, pass blocking and receiving than say Torain, so if Hightower, Helu, and Royster lock down those top spots Torain has less value to the skins.
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by Steve Shoup on Aug 15, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I kinda skimmed right over that first sentence...
So I agree!
As weird as it is to say, I think that right now it does look like Torain vs. Williams for the last spot. Weird to think that our top rusher from last year might get cut in favor of a trade acquisition, two rooks, and two recent FB converts, but at this point it doesn’t seem all that unlikely.
For now, my gut is telling me that Keiland’s out, though. I could even see us keeping just 4 RB/FB, considering that we might try to keep 6 WR + Banks (as discussed above).
We could easily go with 3 RB's
and 1 FB, and stash a guy or two on the PS in case of emergency. Don’t forget, Paulsen can also play that hybrid H-back role if needed.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
yes but a lot will come down to utility
having a 5th guy in the RB/FB mix is good given the higher injury chance of the position. Not to mention they can be used more on ST, than say small WR’s. Sure one can be a return man, but if Austin or Paul can already do it, why keep Banks?
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by Steve Shoup on Aug 15, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Because
Neither of those guys has the same return abilities that Banks has. Simply put, he brings something that no one else on the team brings.
by StephanHart on Aug 15, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
yes but they bring something that he doesn't either and that is the ability to play multiple units
Paul could also be used on punt and kick coverage teams as well, Banks plays on two units, and one of those, Kickoffs, which was the more important one, has been gutted.
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by Steve Shoup on Aug 15, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Danny Smith is indictating BB will be on the team
and will be a return specialist. We’ll have to wait and see what happens.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
its possible, but when I see Austin showing just as much ability returning Punts
it doesn’t make sense.
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by Steve Shoup on Aug 15, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
Banks just doesn’t fit this year for the Skins.
He is a fit for a team that is well established and isn’t trying players out at so many positions. We just don’t have the room for a return specialist.
Good player, wrong time.
"My cat's breath smells like cat food."
on a team devoid of game-breakers, Banks carries extra value.
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
not if he can't translate that to the offense
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by Steve Shoup on Aug 15, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
ST yards and TDs don't count?
for a team who’s offense is still influx, a game breaking return man is even more valuable.
It might not happen, but it’s not insane for this team to keep BB simply for his return prowess
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
they do, but we are talking about the difference
1. there won’t be as many ST TD’s with kickoffs severely reduced. So that is a bad argument, There were just 10 punts returned for TD’s last year (3 by Hester), to go along with 23 Kickoff returns, which will be significantly cut down. So we are talking about 1 maybe 2 TD’s TOPS, and who is to say that Austin/Paul or anyone else can’t get those? Banks might have a better chance of returning it for a TD, but it isn’t like Paul has no shot.
2. In terms of yardage we are talking about the difference between what Banks gets and what we would get by having someone else return kicks and punts. Banks was good but not great last year in his return averages of 25.1 and 11.3. Sure Banks might end up slightly better, but it’s not going to be a huge difference. Especially with the decreased number of kickoffs.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
you're dramatically overestimating how many fewer kick returns there will be this year.
I don’t normally support ‘game breaking’ arguments, but a team filled with lunch pail type players, we need guys like Banks around until we can find those truly elite offensive weapons.
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I don't think he's overestimating at all.
You do realize the last time the ball was kicked from the 35 there were a grand total of FOUR return TDs! FOUR!
Compared to last year when there were 23.
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we'll see what % of returns are touchbacks
it’s a very easy stat to track.
I believe over the weekend the touchback percentage was like 23% where it’s normally 16%
That’s a 50% increase, but it still means there’s a return 75% of the time.
That’s a lot.
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
that isn't really a good stat
considering multiple teams purposely said they didn’t kick it out of bounds so they could work on their Kick coverage. The Bears in fact even had two kickoffs from the 30 yard line (before the NFL called and told them to stop) so they could work on their coverage.
Also, a lot of teams used multiple kickers ( the Patriots backup who will be bagging groceries in 3 weeks, had 6 of the non-touchback kicks.
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actually I looked it up through the first 15 preseason games
the touchback % was 33%
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
I'll need to find the article I read
Maybe it was 33% this weekend, and like ~25% normally?
Weren’t not going to see some massive drop off in returns.
We’re not talking a 50% reduction here.
And the bottom line is this: returners can still have major impact.
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
yes but look around the league a ton of teams are saying they are purposely kicking short and high to work on their return games
and other teams are giving their players the green light to take kicks out of the end zone 5-9 yards deep which should be automatic kneel downs. My guess is you will see a percentage around 40% of the time, and then when you factor in that more returns are starting -1 to -5 yards deep a 24 yard return average doesn’t look quite as impressive.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Is Austin Showing Equal Ability?
He got return chances in the game just like Banks.
Banks reeled off a 20 yard PR and a 58 yard KR, steps away from breaking it for a TD.
Not trying to argue with you on every piece on this, I just think you’re minimizing Bank’s game-breaking ability. It’s something unique and he’s the only player on this team who has that proven ability.
by StephanHart on Aug 15, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Austin had a 19 yard punt return just like Banks
as for the K.O. return, it was impressive, but highly dangerous to return it from 9 yards deep in the end zone. He won’t have the same number of chances this year. So essentially you are keeping him as a PR.
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by Steve Shoup on Aug 15, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait until you see Banks kick return ability this week!
O wait McAfee will blow it into the stands every time.
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by Parks Smith on Aug 15, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
Hell, the kicker for the Rams (forget his name, Cundiff or something) nailed a 60 yd FG and consistently booted it out of the back of the endzone. Gano consistently booted it out of the back of the endzone as well, through the uprights on multiple occasions.
The Steelers started from their 20 almost every time. The preseason has already seen more than double the number of touchbacks on average.
All of this does not bode well for a guy looking to make the team strictly on his return ability. I would give the nod to Austin over Banks strictly based on what I’ve seen so far, but again, it’s still early in the preseason. I guess we’ll see how the next few games play out.
It's Sellers... Mike Sellers. you know with an E, not an A.
Dear Passionate fan, I know you are passionate, but please reply with a logical answer or I will ignore you.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Aug 15, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Then again who cares, he's getting cut haha.
Dear Passionate fan, I know you are passionate, but please reply with a logical answer or I will ignore you.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Aug 15, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Sellers may be old
but he has versatility as a TE, FB, excellent special teamer. He becomes more valuable with the injury to Cooley and the inexperience of Keiland Williams.
Over/Under on...
Haynesworth getting cut
Ocho getting cut
Keiland making the team
Cooley not starting in Week 1
Are these percentages?
Not sure if Over/Under works w/ these categories, haha.
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by Parks Smith on Aug 15, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
You're right
Lets change it to YES or NO
by KonartistNupe on Aug 15, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Cooley shouldn't be starting week 1................it's that simple
I had a fantasy draft yesterday, and it was action style($200 cap). Some asshole bid $8 for Cooley. I got both Winslow and Pettigrew for a total of $6. After the guy got Cooley(after a small bidding war), I laughed, and said he’d have been better grabbing Fred Davis for $2.
Some idiot also bid $10 for Torain. I got hightower for $5.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
If Ocho gets cut we sign him in a HEARTBEAT!!!!
As a kicker…
"My cat's breath smells like cat food."
May have missed this on HH while I was on vacation last week.
But did anyone else notice the Cooley to Buffalo rumblings? Heard we were trying to trade him straight up for Lee Evans.
I wonder if you could still get a deal done for a draft pick OR maybe a deal bringing Roscoe Parrish and a 6th or 7th rounder to DC. Parrish would allow us to have a proven return guy that can actually contribute in the passing game also.
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I like Roscoe Parrish
But there is no way that Buffalo gives up one of their most talented dual threats. He actually sees some good action at the WR role as well.
by KonartistNupe on Aug 15, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
1) Would you of said the same thing about Lee Evans last week? and...
2) They have Brad Smith now, so why have two guys that do the same thing?
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by Parks Smith on Aug 15, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
I think
1.) No, he was on the block last year as well
2.) I agree that he and Brad Smith are similar, I just don’t believe that they are in the position to start trading any of their talent unless they expect a similar hall like the one they received for Lee Evans.
by KonartistNupe on Aug 15, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
If we trade Cooley for less than a 4th I would be incredibly upset/surprised
If we are looking for a position player, my ideal scenario would have Cooley bringing us back either a linebacker or offensive lineman.
by Ken Meringolo on Aug 15, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Too bad we waited on the Cooley trade
Teams were looking for TE’s before, I think the market is a little lower now…
"My cat's breath smells like cat food."
Not "the" Cooley trade
As if there is one, but IF we were going to I wish we had done it sooner rather than later…
"My cat's breath smells like cat food."
TEs arent big trade targets
depending on the team i think a 4th rounder is good value for cooley, the bills 4th round pick is almost a 3rd rounder the pats 4th rounder would be close to the 5th round
by alwaysremember21 on Aug 15, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
What good does that do you?
Washington’s third rounder this year is on the bubble of whether he even makes the team. Trading a pro bowl player, an all-pro player, the guy who just set a team record for receptions at the position during his prime for a guy who may or may not make the team?
Did you not see the TE on the Bronco’s when Shanny won to super bowls? He likes to throw to the tight end.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 15, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Im not saying you trade him, and he was never an all pro
Im just saying i dont think you get more than a 4th, and that would be optimistic, if you try to trade him
by alwaysremember21 on Aug 15, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
no way is he 'on the bubble to make the team' that is ridiculous
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
he likes to throw to a single TE, meaning one of Davis or Cooley should go while you can still get value for them
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
the value for either isn't very high
the Greg Olsen trade was an anomoly, otherwise TEs don’t have much trade value.
Especially Cooley (age) or Davis (reliability, routes, smarts, etc)
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I disagree you see a lot of TE's dealt over the years for mid-round picks
and some of the better ones go for 3rds or 2nd’s
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Cooley for Chad Rhinehart? haha
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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by Parks Smith on Aug 15, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think there was any validity to those rumors
That was random speculation from some talk-jocks. Completely unsourced, as in they didn’t even have an anonymous source. No different than if I called the radio show and asked about trading for him.
All evidence is that Shannahan would like to run the two TE set. Also, bringing in Evans goes contrary to the plan they are implementing. He’s aging and on the downside. Nothing about that rumor makes sense.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 15, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Where is there evidence for this? I think we all wish this, but have yet to see it.
All evidence is that Shannahan would like to run the two TE set.
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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by Parks Smith on Aug 15, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Washington Post
The goal entering last season was to involve Cooley and Davis in the offense. That was, in fact, the specific game plan heading into many contests. But it was the Redskins first year running Mike Shanahan’s version of the West Coast offense and quarterback Donovan McNabb struggled at times.
"We had to go back to what we knew could get us first downs," Cooley said. "For us to be successful last year, we were more simple. I don’t think that we’ll have to resort to that this year."
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 15, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
So we didn't run double TE sets? And I still haven't seen us try or utilize the set properly.
I don’t consider a random WaPo article saying they could use double TE sets as evidence. There is ZERO evidence coming out of either Shanny’s mouth or on the field.
A lot of things come out of Cooley’s mouth, and I’ve learned to not put a lot of stock into what he says. I was also a little upset with Cooley on the sidelines Friday, never saw him checking out the plays, with a ear phone, or coaching up the younger players. Where’s my leader?
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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by Parks Smith on Aug 15, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
They ran two TE sets
but tended to abandon it in the second half of games because of other problems with the offense. The main problem appears to have been twofold- the offensive line wasn’t good enough, so they couldn’t run two TE’s into the pattern, and McNabb.
The line should be better this year and McNabb is gone. If Cooley is healthy, we’ll see more two TE sets this year. I think it should be their primary package, looking out their personnel.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 15, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I hear what you're saying and it makes sense, but I just haven't seen any evidence of it.
I don’t think they started running two TE sets at all, they just flat out didn’t do it.
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by Parks Smith on Aug 15, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
With who? I don't remember it that much.
I don’t remember seeing Paulsen until Davis went down, and Paulsen seemed to be in motion often.
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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by Parks Smith on Aug 15, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Paulsen and Davis were out there together
Don’t know the %.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
I went to NFL.com to see if I could find a %
Washington is second in the league in offense and second in the league at defense! WOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 15, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
It was a joke
obvious overreaction to the first preseason game.
In reality, I’m still not sold on them winning more games than last year.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 15, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
they were, but it was usually on running plays
Last year Fred Davis was on the field for about 39% of the plays, but half of those were running plays. For it to be significant to ‘run two TE sets’ we’d need to be passing out them a lot more.
Davis was on the field for 29% of passing plays last year and some of those were just to give Cooley a breather. We’d need to be running it at like 40% or more to make it make sense.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Aug 15, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
actually that is untrue
the vast majority of the time that the Redskins had two TE’s on passing downs last year, both TE’s went out in routes. The Redskins kept a TE to block the 3rd or 4th least among the 32 teams (and that is whether it was a single or double TE formation).
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Aug 15, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Where do you get the stats?
I would love to be able to look at that type of thing.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 15, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Pro Football Focus
they give a play breakdown, and how many were pass block, run block and out running a route, but it is under their premium package.
They had an article about 2 months ago talking about teams keeping in additional blockers and that is where I got the 3rd or 4th least in the league (that was free)
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Aug 15, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
A blogger threw out a notion of that trade being a good possibility for BUF
For some reason FOX sports turned it into a rumor.
"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made." -Groucho Marx
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by Kevin Ewoldt on Aug 15, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Looks like my fellow Seagull Westbrook won't make it this year.
Damn! C’mon Westbrook! Go SU!
"My cat's breath smells like cat food."
That special teams gaffe may have sealed his fate
He has been in the league for about 3 years now. He knows better than that!
by KonartistNupe on Aug 15, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
GO SU?
The ONLY SU, at least in my opinion is Syracuse University. Westbrook is not an SU’er
by CuseSkinsfan1 on Aug 15, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Philly and especially Vick were unstoppable.
Not many first units looked as good as ours did in the first week of the preseason.
They did look good.
Those are going to be two tough outs this year.
I do think we have some more speed on the line this year, which is terrific, I can’t remember how many times I saw our guys lumbering around in the backfield (if they got there!) last year unable to get to even a less mobile QB. I think we will get some guys back there that can chase down signal callers this year.
"My cat's breath smells like cat food."
Vick and company looked good as always
but philly allowed maybe the most athlectic qb to ever play to get sacked left and right last year and they didnt overhaul their OL by a huge margin. I think that will be the downfall for the eagles, if their line holds they are hard to stop
by alwaysremember21 on Aug 15, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Thier linebackers will be pretty suspect as well.
If not suspect, unproven
by KonartistNupe on Aug 15, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I figure they wont be a super defense
I see them as a team that tries to outscore everybody, though i do think they have a ridiculous secondary
by alwaysremember21 on Aug 15, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Our safeties are far and away better than theirs
while their corners are much better than ours. It’s kind of a wash.
Full Games
Shanny said he likes to give backs full games in the preseason to give them a change to establish rhythm. He used Hightower in the first half, spelling him with Royster, and then let Royster take most of the carries in the second half, with Helu spelling him.
Helu will get extended playing time just like the others.
Also, I think Helu is a lock for the roster. Shanny is probably more interested in seeing what Royster has to offer.
by StephanHart on Aug 15, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
He doesn't have the speed burst I'd like our backs to have.
"If a man speaks and there is no woman around to hear him, is he still wrong???"
by ThuGodfather on Aug 15, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I wasn't overly impressed w/ Royster.
He looks like a guy that will get you exactly the yardage available on a given play, nothing less and nothing more. His pass pro will be the reason he could make the 53 man.. I also don’t think it’s too far fetched to imagine a scenario where Torain gets cut.
@Callahan_9 on the twitter machine.
I agree with this^^^
I said that he is solid and not spectacular. He will run through the holes that are opened for him and that will be all. I thought I was the only one who saw that. Helu just has game changing speed. If given the holes that Royster had, he would more than likely get you at least 15-20 yards.
by KonartistNupe on Aug 15, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
if we keep 3 backs i think we cut royster
i have never been impressed with him
by alwaysremember21 on Aug 15, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
based on what?
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
he doesn't have close to the size needed
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
I think Royster will continue to impress.
He doesn’t have the speed or the size of an elite back but he has a natural instinct for picking up yards
he cant continue to impress, when he never started
by alwaysremember21 on Aug 15, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
i disagree
highly productive college career, and a nice start to his pro career
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
i'm just saying he isn't a FB
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
the Skins will be fun to watch this year. I don’t think we’ll win a ton of games (I’m thinking 6 or 7) but at least we’ll be getting better. The D-line looks like it will be vastly improved and I loved the way Hightower played. The fact that I don’t have to watch Fatboy sulking on the sidelines makes me very happy. HTTR!
agree.
I think we’ll have some tough games, but we wont have the level of mental mistakes. We wont play nasty sloppy Redskin football in other words.
I think this will be a pretty clean looking team with big plays, that just can’t pull off the wins.
qb
i felt better with the second quarterback than i did the first qb friday night (Clausen vs G) their names elude me.
Can someone repost the Custom Jersey link
I saw it a few weeks back but forgot to bookmark it.
Thanks.
HTTR!
Beck is back starting in practice today
So he is healthy again. Apparently not playing well, but could easily be a little rusty.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 15, 2011 1:10 PM EDT reply actions
I think this team needs Beck to start
I just don’t know how I feel about Rex as the starter. This is what he does. He gives you a great game statistically and then bombs the next. If by chance Beck can’t unseat Rex (who is in the drivers seat right now), then we are in big trouble for the season. I like what Rex did, however, we would be in a better situation if this is what he could give you from the bench.
by KonartistNupe on Aug 15, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Yet you've never seen Beck play...
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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I don't think you're understanding my logic
Its not a case of whether I haven’t seen him play. We already know what we are getting with Grossman. We already know that he will give you good to great games and then give you some head scratchers. Because we don’t know what we are getting with Beck, it would be in the team’s best interest that Beck is good enough and better than what Grossman can give.
by KonartistNupe on Aug 15, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
No shit, it would be in our best interest if Ben Chappell gets a chance to play this preseason and turns out to be Peyton Manning
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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by Parks Smith on Aug 15, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Two things
1) Rex as the starter gives you 55% completion percentage, and he’ll get a season ending injury.
2) There is a WashPost article today saying that Shanny want Beck to start, that it would be a major upset at this point if it isn’t him. Basically, they think Grossman has no upside.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 15, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't agree much with WashPo
But, the point that they made is what I am thinking as well. This team is better off with Grossman coming off the bench and not starting. If Grossman is starting, then Beck didn’t have what it took to win the job. If he is our only backup, then we are in trouble if something happens to Grossman.
by KonartistNupe on Aug 15, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I think beck will get a chance to start this week since Rex got the start against the steelers
I think this is fair and will help shinny accurately evaluate both QBs. i hope Beck is a gamer because he has been sounding real rough in practice. I think Helu will get the same carries that roister got last week.
Two things:
1) You can’t believe much of what Shanahan says – he loves to play games, and never said Beck was going to be the starter, and has said that it’s a competition. Also note that he played Rex last year, and not Beck.
2) You can’t know that they think Rex has no upside, and “upside” is a pretty meaningless term anyway – a cliche. You think they think he can never be better than he is right now? Of course they think he can get better – they think he might be good enough to lead the team to a good season, and do it better than any QB who was available in the draft or FA.
All that said, I don’t know who will win out – depends how they do (by the way, some reports from practice say John is not doing too well, but it is early and he is coming back from an injury). I’m guessing Rex will be the QB, but wouldn’t bet a lot on it.
have to disagree
With your overall point. Maybe, MAYBE they think Rex can lead the team better THIS YEAR than any of the FA’s or draft picks, but I don’t think they look at him as any sort of long term solution. They knew they dug themselves a hole with the McNabb experiment last year, so they weren’t gonna bring in any FA QB’s. They also knew there were too many holes to fill on this team to gamble on a draft pick. No matter who the starter is, they’re just holding the spot for whoever Shanny drafts next year. With most of the holes filled on the lines, and youth taking over starting spots throughout the roster, next year will be the right time to bring in a young QB.
Sure, they’re gonna try they’re damndest to win as many games as possible this year (sorry Suck for Luck-ers), but I think they realize that this is the first year of a building phase.
Landry
plans to return to practice on Wednesday. Good news.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 15, 2011 1:18 PM EDT reply actions
Nice
I just saw this to. Says he’s going to play against Baltimore in 2 weeks. My guess is that’s when we see O.J. as well.
When life gives you potatoes, make potato salad.
When life gives you shit, make shit salad.
by 64ShagginWagon on Aug 15, 2011 1:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Anybody else loving the progress from Willie Smith
The guy looks exactly what we thought Capers would be, he seems one of those Unpolished diamonds, I mean there’s a huge difference between being raw and unpolished. It seems as though Smith may be more unpolished, I’m liking his upside, hoping he makes the team. Also don’t want to forget about Hurt, if the guy gets in the gym and really builds muscle and loses a little bit of body fat, he could be a great guy for depth and could possibly start in a couple of seasons.
Dear Passionate fan, I know you are passionate, but please reply with a logical answer or I will ignore you.
Yeah, you're a little late
Although, I don’t really know who would go to that part, maybe Tiller or Parks?
Dear Passionate fan, I know you are passionate, but please reply with a logical answer or I will ignore you.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Aug 15, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
party*
Dear Passionate fan, I know you are passionate, but please reply with a logical answer or I will ignore you.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Aug 15, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Only Parks would own a penis shaped baby pool.
"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made." -Groucho Marx
Hogs Haven. On Twitter..
by Kevin Ewoldt on Aug 15, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Clearly... I said no pictures during the 4th of July bash
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
I should probably hold off on your spiked Kool-Aid next time... my head hurt for weeks.
Dear Passionate fan, I know you are passionate, but please reply with a logical answer or I will ignore you.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Aug 15, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
One thing i noticed from the game on Friday was the energy the Redskins brought to the table
After every play you would see guys giving high fives or patting each other on the helmet. Players were celebrating, but were doing it as a team. Not the kind of cocky celebrations you see from a TO or 2009 Laron. There was a level of excitement that on the field that seemed to be contagious.This was especially noticeable on the offensive side of the ball. It just looked like our offense was having fun, something that has been missing in previous years. Through these subtle actions you can def see a change of culture in the Redskins.
On point 5 from the top
I dont feel like we passed on quinn considering that we traded down, that being said i hoped he was going to fall to us at pick 16. If the team was determined to draft an outside linebacker i thought he was probably the best talent outside of von miller at the position. That being said I think the coaching staff decided to pick high character, team captain, college seniors with their high picks. In that regard I think Kerrigan really embodies the work ethic and blue collar mentality this organization is trying to rebuild around. So while quinn may be more athlectically talented (especially when it comes to hip fluidity, the guy was a beast wrestler in highschool), I think kerrigan is the better fit for us.
I can hope that quinn struggles in the 4-3 like carriker before him and the rams ship him to us in a few years.
P.S. If the skins had decided to draft the best player available they would have taken Amukamara, but i dont think you rebuild a defense around a corner especially when you have hall and wilson
by alwaysremember21 on Aug 15, 2011 1:53 PM EDT reply actions
Anybody hear how James Davis walked out of practice today? (not sure of the name - the guy from late last year)
Can’t blame him – he was going to get cut, and didn’t like being used as a hockey puck. It’s a brutal business, no consideration at all. It’s surprising that more guys don’t just pack up and leave.
Well then maybe we should take a look at this Haynesworth guy
Chad Ochocinco and Albert Haynesworth could be released by New England prior to the season. I personally don’t believe that but let me state for the record that Chad Ochocinco would NOT be a good signing for our team.
I heard he was really good
I have to admit, the receiving corps is looking pretty good
sort of glad we didn’t spend too much on Edwards. I’ve read that Ocho is talented, but he would certainly screw up the chemistry of our current unit. Albert now, such a nice guy, he’d fit right in.
Kickoffs this year...
may be more boring at first but I think teams will tweak the way they approach kickoffs to try to gain an advantage from the new rule. Ive already seen an article, Ill try to find it again, I think I may write a post on this, where some players and teams are experimenting with taking the ball on a running start. Also, teams now have the option of kicking a shorter kick that has a much higher trajectory giving the hang time to allow the coverage team to get down the field and landing the ball insie the 20. I think because of the uncertain nature of how the kicking game will change, Banks should and will be on the team
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