Top 10 Redskins to start a franchise with
by Patrickrh713 on Jul 15, 2011 11:29 AM EDT
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I listed the players below based on the idea of a brand new franchise that somehow got to take 10 of Washington's players. Some strategy for age is factored in. Oddly, the list became extremely hard to pick players for after the 8th pick...
1.) Brian Orakpo (ROLB)
2.) Laron Landry (SS)
3.) Trent Williams (LT)
4.) Kevin Barnes (CB)
5.) Fred Davis (TE)
6.) Ryan Torain (RB)
7.) Kory Lichtensteiger (G)
8.) Adam Carriker (DE)
9.) Jarvis Jenkins (NT)
10.) Brandon Banks (KR/WR)
Keep in Mind that players like Chris Cooley, London Fletcher and O.J. Atogwe are obviously more talented than some of the players on the list, but I'm thinking LONG TERM here...
If you had to do the same, would you pick he same players or swap some out?
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Brandon Banks #10!!!!!
Really? He’s on the bubble to make the roster.
@Callahan_9 on the twitter machine.
by Diesel44 on Jul 15, 2011 1:03 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
yeah that is crazy not many return men do you build franchises around
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
rec'd
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
My 10:
1. Orakpo
2. Kerrigan
3. Landry
4. Trent Williams
5. Jarvis Jenkins
6. Leonard Hankerson
7. Roy Helu
8. DeAngelo Hall
9. Atogwe
10. Fred Davis
yeah i had to go with 4 rookies, but that is what the Redskins are left with. No way guys like Lichtensteiger, should be on here. And guys like Torain, Barnes and Carriker don’t shine as bright as they once did. They are more likely role players.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
solid list..
Needs Cooley. He just turned 29 4 days ago. I don’t want to hear that he’s too old when you’re on the record as wanting a bunch of 30 somethings looking for a payday.
@Callahan_9 on the twitter machine.
I considered him, and truly prefer him
but the question is start a franchise with, and Davis is a more complete TE with his blocking.
And you might want to recheck your record, as the only people I’m on board for over 30 are Franklin and and Moss.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
nope
I wrote an entire post on why the Redskins can do better than Grossman, and should go with Hanie. Now I do believe they will resign Grossman, and i’d prefer that to tilting at windmills with Vince Young, but I have never advocated resigning Grossman.
I’m well on record in a number of posts saying that my preferences for RT are Harris, Colon and Free which are all under 30. I have said that if it came down to Clabo or Brown, it is a no brainer with Clabo. I again said I’d accept it and not consider it a horrible move (i.e resigning Brown), but it has never been my preference or something I’ve advocated.
Ditto on Cullen Jenkins. I have had more than one post promoting Alan Branch as a great option for the Redskins. And even in the most recent discussion, I only said Jenkins wouldn’t be my choice, but if his signing doesn’t prevent us from adding a top NT and multiple O-linemen I won’t consider it a bad deal. I think it is risky, but he would def. make the team better.
Now I had mentioned some cheap over 30 options like John Henderson (before he was resigned) and Gerard Warren, as backup options (actually I really wanted Henderson). But that is about it.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 16, 2011 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I know your for Hanie
Alan Branch, and Harris, but I didn’t think you were AGAINST Rex, Jenkins, or Calabo either.
I also thought you’d rather Calabo(as we both agreed he’s a huge upgrade) over Harris.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
i'm not 'against' anyone, even Jammal Brown I said I'd sign if he resigned for Artis Hick money
now that won’t happen, so I guess i’m against him. But as for those three I don’t particularly want any of them, but I also don’t think any are horrible options.
Clabo would fill a big need, but it comes down to age and money. If you are going to spend the money, just sign Colon. If not sign Harris due to age. If they end up with Clabo, b/c other teams lock-up the better options then I’m okay with it. But he isn’t a 1st or 2nd choice (or even 3rd).
Jenkins is the same way, I’d rather see a number of different scenarios, but if we have extra money and already fixed bigger needs, then I can’t argue with his production. Even banged up and missing some time, Jenkins is light years ahead of what we have right now.
I think we can do better than Grossman, but I prefer him to trading for a Kolb/Palmer/ even Orton. Or signing a Young, Hasselbeck etc. to some serious cash. Now if Orton was cut I’d def. sign him as I think he can be solid.
I’m def. not advocating any of these guys, just saying that Clabo and Jenkins are better than incumbent options, and Grossman is better than the ‘big name’ QB’s out there.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 16, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
How would you feel about keeping what we have on defense and at WR
and just focusing on improving the O-Line in FA?
I do believe our defense is pretty good, and I believe we have enough guys we can rotate in at NT for this year. Suppose we look at QB, OL, NT and CB in next years draft. Would you be OK with going into the season with what we already have, plus an upgrade(2-3 spots, all younger players on the O-Line), and maybe 1 FA DE for depth?
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
i mean i think we need to do more than that
b/c at CB, if Barnes starts than Thompson and Westbrooke are your nickel and dime backs? ouch
Same at NT, I think Bryant is going to get destroyed this year, and no way Jenkins can give meaningful help as he is going to be learning the 5 tech.
but if our offseason is say signing Colon and Yanda, resigning Moss, and say bringing in Branch. Then sign someone like Gabe Watson who outplayed Bryant at Arizona and a cheap corner, I won’t complain.
Branch and Watson would be an upgrade over what we currently have (though I have no illusions that Watson is the answer). And adding a vet corner will at least ensure we aren’t completely overmatched at the position. The positive with that plan of course would be making our line go from abysmal to a potential strength if Trent develops.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 16, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Bonus points to you
for apparently being the only one in these debates that can properly spell Clabo.
by Jim America on Jul 17, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks but I'm sure I'll lose them for eventually misspelling someone else's name
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Helu is an unknown - may do nothing
and Cooley, of course. Even Hankerson could be only average – nothing special.
I tried to do this
I couldn’t get to 10. Because I just feel like so many guys are replaceable.
I like Turtles!
Kevin Barns?
Really? He’s just not somebody to build around, does he have a lot of good potential? yes, but he also has the same potential to be just an average player
Kory Lichtensteiger?
I feel like he wouldn’t start for some of the leagues more successful teams, other than being a solid rotational player.
I like Turtles!
Lichtensteiger might start on about 3 other teams in the league and that depends if their 4th-6th round picks can't beat him out
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
I feel like anybody
north of 300lbs would start for the Lions, they just need to keep Stafford upright!
I like Turtles!
I'd go
Rak
Kerrigan
Carriker
Jenkins
Landry
Hall
TW
Hankerson
Helu
Davis
It’s very hard because you don’t know how the rookies will perform, so I’m going on potential and upside with a lot of these guys.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
Can somebody explain why Hankerson keeps making lists?
He had the chance to be drafted by 32 teams, TWICE! and 14 teams had the chance to draft him THREE times. and they all passed.
I get he’s a rookie and everybody thinks there’s potential, but what if, and it’s an if, but what if he’s awful? Can’t adjust to NFL speed? or just doesn’t get how to play in a pro offense?
And you want to build a franchise around him? I think as a general rule a player should have played at least one year, I’d wait two, before you say “I’d build a franchise around him.”
I like Turtles!
who do you suggest?
Lichtensteiger who was drafted in the 4th round and has been cut by two NFL teams. Torain who was drafted in the 5th and cut by both the Broncos and the Redskins? Carriker whose trade value was worth moving down 20 picks in the 5th round (and moving up in the 7th)?
Hankerson could bust but he has potential something few Redskins have right now (that aren’t too old)
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
I would rather
just list something like
“10) whoever we draft in the first round next year”
Because as awful as some of the Skins drafts have been the last few years, at least they’ve consistently gotten the 1st round right (sorta)
I like Turtles!
OR!
just take one of them old guys and plug them in until you can get whoever next years draft is
I think the point to be taken out of all this is that the Redskins don’t have 10 guys worth building a franchise around.
I like Turtles!
yes that is an obvious
but it doesn’t mean guys like Hankerson or Helu don’t have value.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Exactly
I think the point to be taken out of all this is that the Redskins don’t have 10 guys worth building a franchise around.
And the glaring need, even before this draft, was on offense. We are easily in the bottom 10 talent wise in the NFL. Offensively, we are probably bottom 5.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
The only way to correct this
is to build a core group of Redskins, not a bunch of thrown-together, over-the-hill, overpaid free agents. We spoke a lot about this durring the weeks leading up to the draft; about a re-building plan. Thats going to take time. The WRONG approach is going out and overspending on free agents, which is exactly what the fans decided to do in Parks GM exercise. Cultivate from within needs to be our new motto.
I know we have limited talent now, and some certainly needs to be added via free agency, but the majority of our players should come from the draft, and keeping the current players we have. If it takes 3 years, so be it. At least we can have a team that was built the right way, and a team we can truely call Redskins.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
at least they’ve consistently gotten the 1st round right
Ramsey
Gardner
Campbell
Rogers(hasn’t lived up to 1st round status)
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
Sean mother f****ng taylor
Need I say more (probably but they got that pick right along with kerackpo crossing fingers)
by the maroon bird on Jul 16, 2011 7:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I said sorta
If you take out the top 5 drafting teams in the league: Ravens, Colts, Steelers, Patriots and Packers. The Redskins hit miss on first round picks is right at the league average.
The last 5 years the Redskins have picked up, Ryan Kerrigan, Trent Williams, Orakpo, LaRon Landry and Jason Campbell.
Not too bad. I get that most Redskins fans hate Jason Campbell, but to get a starting caliber QB in the back half of the first round, I think you could do a lot worse.
I like Turtles!
Incorrect....we are too bad
Over the last five years, we have gone 2 season without a first round pick. So we have gotten Kerrigan, Williams and Orakpo.
Kerrigan is a beast of man, but until he’s in the game, we can’t consider him anything other than a rookie.
I like TW, but to be honest, I don’t think he has proven anything yet. He faced a lot of great pass rushers last year, and lost most of the battles. He’s young, so it’s expected, but by no means has he already jumped out of the bust category, especially since we skipped over Okung.
Orakpo is also a beast of man who has proven he has what it takes to be great in this league…hopefully adding Kerrigan opens up more opportunities for both of them to excel.
A team gave up two firsts plus to go get Julio Jones
…who didn’t find the end zone in college nearly as often as Leonard Hankerson.
Teams pass over talented players all the time. In part, one of the reasons that guys like Hankerson and Colt McCoy can drop to the third round is because teams will take guys who fill obvious holes in their scheme in the top two rounds (like, for example, Jarvis Jenkins), and leave the BPA drafting for once those holes are filled.
A team with a need went way up to get Jones, and that affected where Hankerson was picked. It doesn’t mean that Jones is going to be the better player, only that he had the rarer skill set.
by Greg Trippiedi on Jul 17, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
um
Most successful teams take the BPA in the early rounds and then fill needs.
I like Turtles!
You may not be acquainted with Greg Trippiedi but he is one of the main authors at Hogs Heaven.
One of his articles on drafting QBs. Archives from 2009-2011 are available at this site.
http://www.redskinshogheaven.com/2011-articles/march/the-virtues-of-drafting-a-quarterback-early-in-the-middle-rounds-or-late.html. Not saying that you are not right RedTurtle.
by Jefferson1935 on Jul 18, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I do apologize
as I am new to Hogs Haven, I didn’t intend to step on anybody’s toes.
but after years of following the NFL and the NFL draft, usually for the first 40-50 picks or so they take the best player available*. Yes, QBs are an exception, because it is a Quarterback driven league. If you get the right QB you have everything if you don’t you’ve got nothing. (See Arizona post Kurt Warner).
*Does not apply to any Al Davis affiliated team
I like Turtles!
Those examples of high picks who haven't done much
show the flaw in the “rebuild through the draft” idea. You just can’t depend on the draft. You must build a good team through trades and free agents (and, of course, the draft), and most of the free agents are going to be high priced – they’re high priced because they are good, the kind of core guys you want – that’s the free market sending you a message. Once you have a good team, try to maintain it, through the draft and elsewhere. If we can get most of the guys selected in the HH GM exercise, we’ll be very competitive, and can hope to stay that way in later years by making good use of the draft and FA.
This list may have to be updated...
as soon as we are done signing free agents. If the Redskins are smart, they should be able to add at least a couple of players that will deserve to be on this list.
A Redskin Potato
Ugh. This list is a joke. The list is three players long.
Four if you count Kerrigan.
This team is so devoid of young blue chip talent it’s unreal.
Shanny better have hit on the 2011 draft or we are going to continue to see dark days.
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
The list is three players long.
I’m assuming you mean Landry, Rak and TW?
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
Does any other team in the NFL have the success the Redskins have in the first round
without the wins to show for it? I would suggest that having four “franchise cornerstones” as homegrown, first round picks would actually put the Skins in rarefied air in that regard. I think the failure in finding players after that is more related to the need to alter the scheme and direction of the franchise every two years, but when your HC hires are fifty or sixty somethings every time, that’s going to be a sideeffect of those decisions.
by Greg Trippiedi on Jul 17, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Where there were drafted only counts for pride points.
And the first round should be the easiest round to hit on anyway.
What matters is how much young blue chip talent is on the team, and our answer is: not much.
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Off the top of my head
Without doing any homework
Patriots, Colts, Ravens, Packers, Steelers, Eagles, Giants and Cowboys seem to routinely hit on first round picks.
I want to include Kansas City, but I can’t come up with the names off the top of my head.
I like Turtles!
2010: Eric Berry, S (great pick)
2009: Tyson Jackson, DE (? didn’t even start last year)
2008: Glenn Dorsey, DT (mediocre I think); Branden Albert, OL (mediocre I think)
2007: Dwayne Bowe, WR (great pick)
2006: Tamba Hali, DE (great pick)
2005: Derrick Johnson, OLB (good player)
mixed results I guess
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
reading more closely, Dorsey is apparently a “top 5” run stopper 3-4 DE, and Albert starts at LT but might be losing his job.
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Kansas City Chiefs changed GM to Scott Pioli since most of these players were selected. Pioli is very active
in the field in evaluating prospects. Allen is not this kind of GM. "Pioli, who typically makes more than 20 mid week visits to schools during the college season, is set up to watch tape in the Iowa football offices by himself in a quiet room. He hears someone enter the room next to the room he is in. Eventually, he pokes his head around the corner to see who it is. He recognizes quarterback Ricky Stanzi from the back of his head. Stanzi, who Pioli had met earlier that day, is watching tape at the front of the room with his back turned to the door. He doesn’t see the general manager of the Chiefs, and Pioli says nothing.
Pioli keeps checking back throughout the afternoon. Stanzi doesn’t budge for the next five hours. He is taking notes on a pad. Stanzi isn’t listening to an Ipod. He isn’t answering his cell. He isn’t texting or emailing. He is focused on the tape.
Eventually, Iowa coach Kirk Ferentz comes by to say hello to Pioli. He explains the routine is normal for Stanzi. "He told me he came down every day and locked himself in a room," Pioli said. "He would watch tape after tape after tape. He said Ricky had developed into a workaholic and a student of the game, and a lot of his improvement on the field had to do with what went on in that room."
And so Stanzi became a Kansas City Chief in the fifth round."
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFP-Sunday-Blitz-5658.html
by Jefferson1935 on Jul 18, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Redskins drafts since 2005
Grades are my opinion:
2005:
Carlos Rogers, CB (grade: B)
Jason Campbell, QB (grade: C)
2006:
none
2007:
LaRon Landry, S (grade: A/B)
2008:
none
2009:
Brian Orakpo, OLB/DE (Grade: A)
2010:
Trent Williams, T (Grade: A?)
So that’s two decent picks (Rogers, Campbell) and three picks that look to be great: Landry, Orakpo, Williams
Also keep in mind half of those guys were top 10 picks which makes it easier, IMO
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Torain is a bad pick
Orakpo, Landry, Kerrigan, Hankerson perhaps Fred Davis as well, all could be cornerstones of a franchise. Trent Williams gives you a good player at a premium position. I’d put Carriker, Blades and maybe Lorenzo Alexander or Chris Wilson on the list as well. But beyond those eight to ten guys, the Redskins are a combination of contributors, role players, and old guys.
Perhaps the biggest takeaway from this is that if the Redskins were still going to be a winning team, they could have probably extended the core of the Gibbs/Williams teams and tried to win as a group of thirty-somethings (Fletcher, Washington, Springs, Jansen, Thomas, Kendall, Portis). But when they tore down that core, the decade of neglect for cheap, cost-free talent was exposed.
by Greg Trippiedi on Jul 17, 2011 12:20 PM EDT reply actions
The first two Redskins that we should build this franchise around are...
shannahan and allen
cause that’s actually what we’re currently doing
that's kind of sad
We got a B List GM
and a B- List coach
I like Turtles!
Yea have a coach with 3 SB rings and a former executive of the year really sucks.
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
Yeah
He hasn’t been in the playoffs since 2005.
Since then he’s a sub 500 coach
I’m not saying he wasn’t a great Head Coach, I think he was fantastic about 15 years ago
I’ll admit I may be underrating Allen, an improvement over Vinny definitely! I’ll reserve further judgement until he proves me right/wrong. But forgive me if I don’t have faith in a GM who took a Superbowl winning Tampa Bay Bucs and turned them into what Wikipedia calls a period of struggle.
I like Turtles!
dude you need hooked on phonics maybe fred davis has a copy for you
lohaus #54
by lohaus#54 on Jul 20, 2011 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Graham Gano!
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
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