HH Community GM: Defensive End
I've been slacking big time on the Community GM and I apologize for that. The last Community GM we did focused on the Quarterback position. Rex Grossman won the vote by nearly 100 votes over Vince Young (COME ON PEOPLE!), Alex Smith got the third most votes, and Marc Bulger came in 4th.
Players Signed
Ryan Harris, RT: 6 Years, $5 Million
Jonathan Joseph, CB: 6 Years, $12 Million
Aubrayo Franklin, NT: 4 Years, $8 Million
Davin Joseph, G, 6 years, $7 Million
Santana Moss, WR, 3 years, $5.5 Million
Rex Grossman, QB, 2 years, $4 Million
Right now we still have $24.5 million to spend and we're kind of in "wild card" situations, so if anyone has any suggestions on positions to focus on then please post it here. Today we will focus on the DE, and maybe next we'll focus on another interior lineman.
Currently our DE rotation is projected to include the following players: Carriker, Jenkins, Daniels, Jarmon, and Holliday. Have fun! Please remember price tags are per year.
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I voted no one, but I kind of like the prospect of Marcus Spears.
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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I want to see what Jarmon can do.
I have a suspicion that Jenkins may morph into more of a NT over time.
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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remember though you need 4 quality ends (esp. if one or more see some NT time)
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
You need 2 quality ends
and 2 reliable back-ups. Jenkins would want to start if he comes to DC. He’d also want a descent payday. He would also take time away from the development of Jenkins.
Branch is the only one on this list I’d be interested in, and that would be for depth.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
I'm actually agreeing with you about Branch
though I’d say he is more than just depth. I know you like Carriker, but Branch has outplayed him thus far in their careers so If I sign him I got to give Branch more plays. Branch has also shown more versatility, as he can fill in at NT, and also play inside when we have 4 man fronts (something that isn’t Carriker’s strength or likely Jarmon’s as well).
Since we don’t have a Ngata or Dockett in this bunch than I think rotation is our key. Branch and Jarvis Jenkins can both play some NT (esp. in passing situations), so there would be enough plays to go around, and give Franklin (see what i did there) some quality depth.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 15, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think Branch unseats Carriker
I think if he’s brought in, it may be to start at RDE while Jenkins grows into the position. I’d expect Branch to be playing 2nd fiddle by mid-season.
That said, I’m completely fine if we just go with what we have now.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
I should have been more clear...
I agree that at the beginning of the year Carriker and Branch will get the starting snaps (though hopefully Carriker is handcuffed with Jarmon for passing downs). But by mid year Jenkins will force his way into the lineup and take over whichever starting spot is weaker. Given their track records I’d say it is Carriker, but he should still play a ton, b/c Branch will be needed for NT and DT snaps etc.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 15, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea Steve why would we need 4 "QUALITY" ends?
a : degree of excellence
Sign me up for 4 of those guys…
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well our approach last year of Carriker, Golston, Daniels, Holliday and Haynesworth
didn’t work out so well, so maybe we should do what other teams do and have talent. It’s just a theory, but it seems to make other 3-4’s better even if they don’t have the linebacking talent (see Cardinals, Arizona).
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 15, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Steve, that would just make way too much sense.
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by Parks Smith on Jul 15, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I hate how logic works
I’m hoping the Skins learned their lesson from last year, but i’m doubting it.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 15, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I think how we handle the d-line is a total wild card.
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by Parks Smith on Jul 15, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
that is what scares me
until we fix the line any signings at ILB or CB (and Atogwe) will be somewhat of a waste. They don’t need to go crazy, but two additions to this line could make it quite a strength, which could then make Kerrigan and Orakpo like Harrison and Woodley (without the crazy)
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 15, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
say what you want about the DL even discounting Jenkins and Jarmon...
They OL is in much worse shape
@Callahan_9 on the twitter machine.
oh i'm not arguing that
I’m just saying when it comes to the defense, if we want our back 8 to matter that front 3 needs to drastically improve
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Alan Branch...i think he will be a steal
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Similar to Parks, except I voted Spears, but would be OK with nobody.
As long as we’ve got our veteran NT in, I’m OK with the DEs we have and the young guys taking over all three line positions in a couple of years.
Use the remaining money to bring Yanda in, as Interior OL is still the weakest link.
StephenBeagrie on Twitter and Facebook.
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by Stephen Beagrie on Jul 15, 2011 5:49 AM EDT up reply actions
No one
Working with what we have and the addition of Franklin on our defensive front I know we aren’t scaring everyone but it’ll work for this year. Hopefully we’ll see some development and progress from our younger guys like Jarmon, Jenkins, and Nield.
"You're fucking out!"
Went Spears
Why? Combination of price / Age / and upside.
My strategy for the team this year would be to bring in everyone possible, UFA’s FA’s Draft picks(good start), dudes off the street, cfl, ufl, and especially LFL.
Crank up the competition and regardless of pay, play the best, bench the rest.
The Beat Box aka skins secondary.
by Al_CaPWNED on Jul 14, 2011 5:14 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
haha +1
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Youth
Forget the old guys, we need to bring along the young guys….I would like to see our currents stay on, along with a street agent to work on as a project. Carriker will lock one side up, and hopefully Jarmon can steal big Phil’s spot. Would be nice to see JJ get some work if he doesnt slide inside
They can't hang with me, their bones would melt like wax.
-Charlie Sheen-
and FYI, I voted no one.
They can't hang with me, their bones would melt like wax.
-Charlie Sheen-
by Skinsaholic21 on Jul 14, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Branch would be a great pickup
But I think he could go for big money.
my vote is Branch as well, esp since he can help out at NT some
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
That's true, but keep in mind the scenario...
We already have Franklin and Neild, and Jenkins can slide in there, and regardless if they end up on the roster, we have Bryant and Kemo coming into camp….apparently Carriker has experience there in a pinch.
I think with Franklin on the team that lessons the bonus points for being able to Play NT. Don’t get me wrong, versatility is always good, just not that big of an issue in this scenario.
Here's the thing though
Kemo should be cut, b/c he saves $2.5 million
Bryant couldn’t beat out Branch (or anyone for that matter) in Arizona, so really him being cut isn’t an issue either.
Carriker struggled there and really struggles at anything on the interior, and looks to be a 5 technique only. He doesn’t have the versatility (at least as valuable) as Branch, when we go with 4 linemen looks.
Jenkins is one that we assume can help out at NT, but he’s going to have a short camp and needs to learn end first. Not to mention he probably needs to get stronger to really be more than a body there. Branch is someone we know that can help from day one.
As for Neild, I like him, but he was the 2nd to last pick in the draft, he could make the team, but more often than not he is likely to be inactive (something you can do if you have multiple people who can help at NT).
If I was building this line i’d say this
DE Carriker, Jarmon
DE/DT/NT Jenkins, Holliday, Branch
NT: Franklin, Neild
That is a 7 man group with a good combo of run and pass rush, versatility to play any set, and youth and experience.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 15, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Carriker can rush the passer and collapse the pocket
better than Branch. JMO
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
neither is great at it
but thus far the numbers support Branch (not by a lot). Given his bulk he is more likely to command a double team from an end position against the pass also.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 15, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
that isn't necessarily a strength here
Branch’s size allows him to play any position we’d need him to play, and his bulk alone means he could command more double teams, esp. rushing the passer.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
If you want the guy to produce more sacks and pressures
being a good athlete will help.
Look, there is no way Branch is brought in to take Carrikers place. I’ll be happy to make a bet with you; that’s how confident I am. If Branch is brough to DC, it will be to start at RE until Jenkins is ready, or to provide depth.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
what would the definition be?
Carriker could get games started b/c those are more running downs. Branch I’m guessing gets more playing time
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Branch has played both
so if they are working Jenkins as an RDE, Branch can flip over to the left side
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 15, 2011 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions
State your wager
if you think Carriker will be outted of a starting position in 2011 in favor of ANY FA signing.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
again what is your definition of 'starting'
the fact that he is out there for the 1st play of the game? or the higher % of plays.
I wouldn’t bet on just anyone, if we sign a Justin Bannan, I think that is a pure depth signing. But If it is Jenkins, Ellis, Spears, Branch, Bowen yes i see them starting, but of course injuries will play a role as well.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Jenkins, Ellis, Spears or Branch
may be starters, just not in place of Carriker. My definition of starter, is they are listed on the game day roster as the starting DE.
The guys you mentioned above wouold start on the opposite side of Carriker)or be used for depth), not in place of him. Thats is my bet to you.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
the only problem with that is
starting on a game day roster is defined by who is out there for the 1st play. So a nickel back could have starts if we play the Pats and they come out with 3 or 4 WR’s. That is my only issue, is that b/c typically they will come out in a pro set, Carriker will probably be there for the 1st play and get the start. But Branch and J. Jenkins could end up with more plays in the game.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
spears from the start...
I love the fact that he has experience, still young and affordable. Not only that, but we take him from a divisional rival (you know he would be pumped up on Dallas week!)
The same argument applies to Bowen who was a more than adequate replacement at the end of the season when
Spears was injured.
by Jefferson1935 on Jul 14, 2011 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
HOLY SHIT, not even Vinny could spend 243 million in contracts in one offseason. Congrats Freaks!!
Players Signed
Ryan Harris, RT: 6 Years, $5 Million
Jonathan Joseph, CB: 6 Years, $12 Million
Aubrayo Franklin, NT: 4 Years, $8 Million
Davin Joseph, G, 6 years, $7 Million
Santana Moss, WR, 3 years, $5.5 Million
Rex Grossman, QB, 2 years, $4 Million
SOON to be Jenkin, DE, 5 years, 8. 5 Million
@Callahan_9 on the twitter machine.
by Diesel44 on Jul 14, 2011 8:12 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Don't get excited. A lot of these guys will not play out their contracts. It depends on how much is guaranteed.
by Jefferson1935 on Jul 14, 2011 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Jefferson, I understand how NFL contracts work (no snark intended)
Still not a playoff team even with those additions and money spent.
@Callahan_9 on the twitter machine.
true, but possibly could be in a year or two with a few more additions
we will need to spend and we can’t exactly bury our head in the sand
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
I've agreed w/ 2 of the FA signings..Joseph and Moss.
Harris – a touch under medicore
Joseph – yes
Franklin – solid but not worth 8 mil/per
D. Joseph – worst fit possible and one of the most overrated players in the NFL
Moss – yes
Grossman – does it matter
Jenkins- 8.5 mil for a guy that wants a payday and has missed 17 games in the last 3 yrs.
I voted for Branch at DE. In fact I would bring in Gabe Watson as well.
@Callahan_9 on the twitter machine.
look i'm not arguing for all these players either
I’m okay with Harris, but if we have the money lets upgrade for a Free or Colon
I really don’t want J. Joseph just b/c I think he is too expensive, but get a good young corner
Franklin, yes worth the risk, will entirely set the tone for the D
Yanda far above over D.Joseph
Moss yep
I’ll take Hanie over Grossman
I’m with you on Branch and maybe Watson
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Whats the obsession with Free?
He’s a LT, and wants LT money. We have a LT. Free is very overrated IMO.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
Holy hostility... Diesel I agree with you on DJoseph and Harris especially
I think DE-wise we may be good with what we have. Golston (rough year last year) is still another guy people have forgotten about and he’s 28.
The thing is, if Vinny did have this much money to spend then there is no telling what would happen, haha.
I’m torn three ways on the defensive side of the budget and there are 3 options in my mind:
1) Sign Franklin, and stick to what we have in terms of players around him
2) Sign a ton of lineman and try to solidify a bad-ass rotation w/o a prototypical NT.
3) Go with what we have b/c frankly I think we’re going 8-8 at best, and it doesn’t really matter regardless. Focus on cultivating and personnel decision for 2012.
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Parks please don't mention Golston
he’s another guy who got screwed with the move, but I just don’t see him as an option.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 15, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I can agree with any one of 1 through 3 depending on what happens on the offensive side of the ball.
The RB group is strong enough if the ZBS is working for Shanahan like it did in Denver. The Jets (and last season’s Texans) demonstrate that it is not outmoded with the right OL personnel. Seattle seems to be moving to larger linemen if they are retaining the scheme. The real crux is the QB position as well as play calling. What kind of magic can the Shanahans work at this stage of the Game? Vince Young for the last three quarters of the season? It is too late to bring a starting QB and expect him to perform early on.
by Jefferson1935 on Jul 15, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I disagree with the 3rd premise
We are not a playoff team i agree, but there are a lot of young options out there at CB, ILB, or DE that can be part of the future (even if it is just a rotational piece). And a NT like Franklin can give us 4 good years. We might be a 5-8 win team this year, but next year they could begin to challenge. Let’s fix our needs when we have the money to do so and not wait.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 15, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
That's my new thing.
Every post from now on is going to be hostile. After this one..
@Callahan_9 on the twitter machine.
I personally don't mind moving Trent
Free was pretty dominate last year, and considering the revolving door of guards and QB’s that he had to deal with that is pretty impressive. He’s young with zero injury history to speak of.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 15, 2011 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
considering it was his first year at LT, dealing with two QB's and all the other issues I was impressed
Dominate might be too strong, as he wasn’t Long or Joe Thomas, but he was a great run blocker and a good pass blocker, at 27 i’m buying if we have the money.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Still much rather have Colon
I’d take free if we struck out with Colon, and I’d certainly take him over Harris, but from me, obviously that doesn’t mean much as you know I believe Harris is overrated.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
I'm fine with that order
I just don’t think Harris is an afterthought
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
He is an afterthought to:
Colon
Brown
Free
Calabo
For sure!
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
why would Brown be above Free and Clabo??
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
I was referring to these players vs Harris
no order intended
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
okay just checking
some people on here would take Brown over Clabo, despite them being the same age and Clabo without the injuries and actually playing at a Pro Bowl level.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 15, 2011 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
C'mon People
Do we really wanna spend 8.5 million a year for 5 years on a 30 year old player? Vinny is somewhere smiling right now looking at this.
I picked Branch.
Why? He’s the youngest one there, he’s relatively cheap and he’s not a bad player.
All you people picking Jenkins are out of your minds.
Also went with Branch
I’ve been tending to go with the younger guys in theese polls. Yes I want guys that can help us be competetive now, but more importantly, I want guys that can help us be competetive for a LONG TIME.
I don’t think that guys like N. Asomugha, A. Franklin, or C. Jenkins will help with that.
A Redskin Potato
I agree in theory, but I believe Franklin is the outlier here....
I think an effective NT is key to the development of the other young players we have brought in. Maybe we only get 3 (or even two) years out of him, by that time the rest of the defense should be set, and hopefully playing at a very high level. Maybe Nield will be ready to move to the #1 position by then, or we should be set enough in other positions to be able to spend a reasonably high pick on that position. Without a solid NT and questions at ILB we will get shredded by the run, I really don’t want our new safety to lead the team in tackles.
In the passing game, if we don’t get a NT who will demand the DT, we could be in even more trouble. Jenkins, Carriker and Jarmon are not going to earn the DT every time either, which leaves extra blockers to counteract Kerackpo and completely defeats the purpose of the 3-4.
I believe that these scenarios would be extremely dtrimental to the guys we are planning to send out there.
+1
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 15, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Conflicted on this one.....
My first mind wanted Spears, I am not too familiar with Branch but from what I do know seems OK. Tempted to say no-one, but I think taking a look at more guy for the rotation might be a good idea.
Voted No One
I’m not impressed that any of the guys listed will be a big enough impact to start them over young talent we need to develop from our own guys.
I’d rather use that money to pay some of the guys who would have been FAs next year, like Landry and Sleepy. We can be good this year, but we’re not making the playoffs. 2012, we might… so lets get the kids some experience to get them ready.
No Danny, Nooooooo - Tom Landry, 1982., and Washington Redskins fans, 1999-
Fans want change
yet when given a simple exercise like this, revert to the old way we used to do business. In most instances, people picked the older, most expensive FA to become Redskins. I just don’t get the mentality of the fans. People bash Vinny, and his ways of attempting to put together a team for years. He’s gone, and new, more competent regime has taken over, yet people want the same as if Vinny were still running the show.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
Tiller I agree 100%
Nothing wrong with spending (esp. since we have to) but spend wisely. Maybe you land one or 2 30+ FA’s, but they should be the right ones. Guys without injury history etc.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 15, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yo guys do realize
that we have some good young defensive talent on this team. Carriker was a 1st round draft pick we got for a Steal! He was misused in St Louis, but is finally in a position he’s comfortable playing, and it showed last year. Jarmon, was a 3rd round pick in the supplemental draft, which likely means he would have been a late 1st to 2nd round pick the following year had his performance remained the same. He’s close to 300lbs, and has a year to absorb the position change. Jenkins was a 2nd round pick and an ideal fit as a DE in the 3-4. We still have a guy like Holliday for back-up, and who knows what will happen with Haynesworth. Why bring in another big name, just to stunt the development of our young players?
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
Agreed
Oddly enough, nobody who voted for Jenkins is speaking up. Funny how that works out in these exercises. I voted for “We’re all set”. This experiment has enough variables as it is without bringing in an aging vet looking for a pay day.
It's classical conditioning
Just like when the bell rings, the dog salivates; when people see the oldest, highest priced free agent, they immediately want him.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
i voted for jenkins
and you can bitch all you want.
Who's bitching?
We just want someone who voted for him to say WHY they voted for him. That’s the whole point of this exercise. Discussion.
im just trying to be tough
but for real, I think he would be a good addition to our line. I dont agree with all the signings that we have made so far but i am picking who i think can help us. He is great vs the pass and can easily rotate with Jenkins/Carriker/NT. I want to keep our line fresh and i think having four dominant players that can play the line would be nice. I would like Franklin/Jenkins/Carriker/Jenkins, this would help us vs injuries. Our depth is not that good in my opinion.
You guys have brought up Branch and he might be a good option but i dont know a ton about him and how he does in the 3-4. Jarmon is still going through a period of playing multiple positions and changing weight, we dont know what we have in him in a 3-4 DE. Neild might not even make the final roster and be on the practice squad. Bryant is a good backup NT. Holliday/Daniels are backup? One of them might be gone for all we know but they did prove well in rotation. Am i forgetting anyone else?
If we dont sign him I wont be upset but I think its a good move. Franklin is my higher priority tho i do admit.
So far i’m here (though ive changed my mind a couple of times): Franklin, Yanda, Moss, Jammal, Wilson/JJ, Rex, and possibly Chester
Branch has played in the 3-4 under the Cards
they have more of a hybrid system, esp. this last year, b/c their LB’s sucked and their D-line was really good. But he can play any position on a d-line but 4-3 end. He’s a better run defender than pass rusher, but still gets after the QB some.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 15, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
still gets after the QB some?
You bitch about Carriker not being good against the pass, but yet you make this statement about Branch?
Branch had only 2 sacks himself last year. Both against Seatle. ZERO sacks in the rest of the games. In his career, Branch has 1/2 a sack more than Carriker.
Branch is a run stuffer and not a pass rusher. Carriker is a run stuffer and not a pass rusher.
Be consistent!
A Redskin Potato
by Mr PotatoHead on Jul 15, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think there needs to be a lot of context with that
For one Carriker has played more despite missing all of 2009. Secondly Carriker has played more of his career on a 4 man line, which places a greater emphasis on getting to the QB. Also, one of Branches years in the 3-4 he was a backup NT, giving him even less chances to get to the QB.
Finally sacks only tell a part of the story, as pressures and hits are quite important as well, and show a D-line man still getting after a QB. Using the Pro Football Focus pass rush metric which weighs hits and pressures at .75 as opposed to sacks at a one for one basis, Branch has a higher pass rush rating. Now they only have play data going back 3 years, so i can’t measure Carriker’s rookie year, so I will look at just each players time at 3-4 DE, which is 2 years for Branch (though there are some NT and DT snaps in there as well) and 1 year for Carriker (which includes some DT snaps). For Branch in 499 pass rush snaps he has 4 sacks, 7 QB hits and 23 pressures, for a rating of 5.31. Carriker had 1 sack (I know he is credited with a sack and a half according to other stats, but i wanted to stay consistent), 0 hits and 14 pressures last year in 286 pass rush snaps, for a rating of 4.02.
For a comparison the bottom of the top 20 interior line (DT,NT’s and 3-4 Ends) for 2010 was at 6.09, but the 3 year average was at 5.76, So Branch’s two year number isn’t far below that and would probably rank top 40ish. Where as Carriker was quite a bit lower. Granted maybe Carriker has a far stronger 2nd season (Branch’s 2010 number was 4.5), but he’s never shown to be much of a pass rusher prior so I wouldn’t bet on it. (as a DT in 2008 he had 0 sacks, 2 hits and 6 pressures in 233 pass rush snaps).
Neither are pass rushers, and i never said they were, I just said Branch is a more productive pass rusher than Carriker and i think I’ve been fair in that assessment.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Now looking at some stats
I see how Branch has the potential and I wouldnt be opposed to this type of signing since hes still young and could develop into something for us. A very good depth guy that could breakout and that doesnt hurt.
That's pretty much where I am too
So far i’m here (though ive changed my mind a couple of times): Franklin, Yanda, Moss, Jammal, Wilson/JJ, Rex
I’m just concerned about Jenkins durability. That is the biggest red flag against him in my opinion. It would suck to pay top money for him and not get our money’s worth.
it's a legit concern
but i don’t think it would be the end of the world, the Skins can structure the money to mitigate those concerns. I just would rather see that money spent else where, and go with a younger guy.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 15, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
well you can put me down for either
I think Cullen can bring more dominance in year one but im intrigued by Branch over time.
I can't hate either direction
I just think Branch is the safer, smarter and more long term fix. The one thing they can’t do is stand pat.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 15, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
revote!
Everyone who did NOT vote for jenkings all vote for the same option and we can win this thing!!!
The Beat Box aka skins secondary.
haha, tampering
now that will get Park’s panties in a bunch
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
My name isn't Park
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
by Parks Smith on Jul 15, 2011 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Well i voted c. jenkins for the following reasons (long post)
1: Jarvis jenkins needs to get bigger and stronger. from watching him(though admittedly only on youtube highlights) he seems to win through effort not pure strength. i feel like against big fast strong LT’s and guards he will have some trouble. so rather than throwing him out now we could give him a chance to bulk. we dont want to damage his confidence.
2: Cullen jenkins was injured a lot, however he was essentially their every-down DE. if we can get a true rotation, as some of you guys have suggested, he could come on passing downs in place of carriker. we have noted he is good against the run. let him do that and have c.jenkins on the pass downs. rotation rotation rotation. we could work j. jenkins and j.jarmon into the rotation to keep all our linemen fresh rather than us wearing down(as usual) in the fourth.
3: c. jenkins can rotate to all spots on teh d-line, d-end and nt, which gives him value. that would allow us to put our various dlinemen in positions that allow us to make plays. some downs he can be lde with kerrigan overtop, later he can be rde with orakpo overtop. rotation, flexibility.
3: though the contract is 5 years i would expect them contract to be structured in an either front-loaded fashion with the latter years being highly incentivized or something to that effect rather than a flat rate 8 mil/year.
4: He is better than what we have. I work in DC GOVT with 1000x redskins fans and we talk about this every day. I think we as a fan-base are thinking too theoretically. I think we should not just throw money away on has-beens, but i dont think we should avoid signing all players over 26 years and 3 days old. when signing a free agent it should go like
-is this guy better that someone we currently have at the position?
-will signing this guy hurt the people that we currently have at the positon?
-is he a short term solution or a long term solution?
-if he is a short term solution, do we have a long term solution?
C. jenkins serves a purpose. he will make our dline respectable with franklin. he will be there long enough to allow j.jenkins and whoever else we may sign in teh future time to develop. by the time he truly declines, j jenkins should be coming into his own. the same with franklin for neild(or whoever else we sign). they seem like logical decisions to me.
we should try to suck just because we r rebuilding. if we can put guys in to win. we should do that.
we should NOT try to suck just because we r rebuilding
by mrhinton on Jul 15, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i agree lol
and im tired of people just already giving up on the season and saying we wont be good. I enjoyed last season so much because of all those game’s being nail biters. I love sports how underdogs find ways to win. I think we will have a respectable season and I think we need to put the most competitive roster out there. especially when we HAVE to spend some money.
Well thought out mrhinton
I don’t think people are giving up on the season b/c the thought is we won’t be good, rather they’re (/we) are thinking more of a long term plan that is best for the franchise rather than a short term plug-n-play plan. Just glancing at the potential 2012 FA class in regards to the d-line, it looks like there is more impact possibility then.
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by Parks Smith on Jul 15, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
It just seems like the same ole trap
Getting all excited about a proven high dollar vet and signing him to a fat contract. At least it wouldn’t be Haynesworth 2.0. From all accounts Jenkins is a professional and a hard worker. His injury history isn’t too encouraging over the last 3 years though, with him missing 17 of a possible 48 games. To me that is the biggest red flag, but maybe this lockout has given him some time to really heal up.
My biggest question is, if he’s as good as he appears to be, why wouldn’t GB retain him? Is it just wishful thinking to think he will be available? I think it’s interesting that he started out as an UDFA. I would kinda rather explore our options there before throwing a wad of cash at Jenkins.
As for the retaining issue for the Packers
They don’t have a lot of money this offseason. They have a bunch of big contract guys, and they aren’t guys they are going to cut or trade like us. So they really can’t afford him. They will still be set with Pickett and Raji on the line, and have spent multiple draft picks the last 2 years to add depth to the position, including a 2nd rounder last year (Neal).
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by Steve Shoup on Jul 15, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
So jealous
Must be nice to have a competitive young team built through the draft!
haha no doubt
Though the Skins if they use their money wisely could quickly rebuild this offseason.
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by Steve Shoup on Jul 15, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
i think our contracts for free agents
will be written better than haynesworths contract. The offseason last year had us signing very smartly and it shows this summer with our cap space.
Voted jenkens,the prospect of jenkins lined up next to franklin is just plain scary
And just imagine how many sacks orakpo and kerrigan could rack up with those two collapsing the pocket.
I agree jenkins injury is a little discouraging
But he still had 7 sacks in 11 games.Which is a far cry from any production we got from anybody on the line last year.Maybe more than the entire line combined. Bottom line we need a pass rusher on the d-line,who is willing to do it within the scheme and jenkins is that guy.
i looked it up for you
the Skins managed 9 sacks last year in 1362 pass rush snaps, Jenkins had 7 sacks in 411 snaps. Redskins D-linemen managed just 62 pressures, while Jenkins himself had 28.
I’m okay passing on Jenkins due to age/injury/money combination, but the stand pat idea needs to go out the window. As for the argument that Jarvis Jenkins is enough, remember Haynesworth is gone, and he was responsible for 2.5 sacks and 10 pressures in a limited time, Sans Big Al, the Redskins managed just 6.5 sacks and 52 pressures in over 1200 snaps. That is awful.
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by Steve Shoup on Jul 15, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
haha agreed
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by Steve Shoup on Jul 15, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
The one w/o a NT and in this scenario we've already signed Franklin
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by Parks Smith on Jul 15, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I just dont think Franklin is enough
I would think adding another improved DE (not just Jarvis) would do the trick with a good rotation. A dominant NT will make huge improvements, but I want to be able to keep our D-Line fresh to increase the pressure and be able to change it up.
but i would like to add
that stopping the run better this season with a dominant NT will probably give us a better chance against the pass since we will force more 3rd and long situations. Also preventing them from changing it up against us. We got slaughtered in the run game.
exactly that is why NT is so important
Sure Franklin isn’t going to do much himself in putting pressure on the QB, but he’s an upgrade over Kemo in that department and his efforts stopping the run have a huge effect on the passing game. That is exactly why the Steelers can still generate so much pressure by blitzing, b/c they force so many obvious passing downs where even if the QB dumps it off it might not result in a 1st down.
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by Steve Shoup on Jul 15, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions

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