Personnel Moves I'd Make When The Lockout Is Lifted: Sign another G/C
I've made no secret of the fact that I believe the Redskins need a major overhaul along their offensive line. I've already looked to bring in Marshall Yanda to fill one guard role and still am looking to bring in a RT, but I don't think those two moves alone will bring back the Hogs.
In addition I'd like to see the Redskins add another interior lineman who can hopefully take over a starting guard/center role for the Redskins. I know there are a lot of fans of Will Montgomery and Kory Lichtensteiger out there (Mike Shanahan being one of the biggest) but neither one really looks to be a short or long term answer for the Redskins. Montgomery was actually pretty decent at times, and very well could have been our most productive lineman last year (not exactly setting a high-water mark). Overall though Montgomery is more of a journey-man offensive lineman, and shouldn't just be given a starting role.
As for Lichtensteiger, I realize there is perception that he got better as the year went on, but there really isn't a lot of evidence to back that up. Lichtensteiger had a couple good games when matched up against weak opponents, but in general he was pretty bad. And the whole 'getting' better argument goes out the window when you look at the Dallas game. A game where Lichtensteiger helped sack Rex Grossman, in one of the worst plays you will ever see by an offensive lineman. Although there is nothing wrong with keeping him around as a backup, the fact that the Redskins are willing to hand him a starting role should worry fans and Grossman alike.
I think it is pretty clear that the Redskins should look to add a 3rd lineman this offseason, which will then force Montgomery and Lichtensteiger (likely Monty being the victor) to battle it out for the 5th and final starting job. Whether it be guard or center the Redskins, can have a quality line if they are the 'weakest link', but if they are both apart of the starting lineup than it will likely be another long year for Redskins QB's and RB's.
Center Lyle Sendlein: Sendlein (27) has quietly become the Cardinals best offensive linemen and a quality center in this league. He has been extremely durable, missing just a single play in the last 3 years, since being implemented as a full time starter. He still has some weakness as a run blocker, but he has improved in that area. He'll be one of the more costly options out there with a contract ranging from $5-6 million a year over 5-7 years, but he'd be a nice young piece to add to the Skins line.
Center Samson Satele: Satele (26) has improved greatly these last two years in Oakland after a disastrous start to his career in Miami. Satele has some experience running a ZBS scheme as Oakland has used a variant in the past. And our assistant offensive line coach Chris Morgan, had the same role in Oakland for the past two seasons, meaning he is quite familiar with Satele. Satele isn't going to come in and be a great center, but he has some upside and will be a nice upgrade over what we have had. He will probably look for a salary in the $4 million a year average for at least 4 years.
Guard Mike Brisiel: Brisiel (28) would likely be one of the top guards on the market if he had been more healthy these past two seasons. As it stands though if he checks out medically the Redskins could get a bit of a steal. Brisiel has developed into a very good Zone Blocking guard and as a Texan he knows both the system and Kyle Shanahan. While Brisiel's injuries are a concern, it also will make his price more affordable and likely mean less guaranteed money. Before I set his price at $5 million a year, but it will probably end up being more like $4-4.5 million. (*Note there is some question as to whether Brisiel has 4 accrued seasons, but the Houston Press is treating him as an impending UFA so for this exercise that is good enough for me.)
Guard/Center David Baas: Baas (29) has shown good versatility in his career and was a good reserve lineman, before becoming a full-time starter these past two years. Baas isn't exceptional in any one area, but he is solid across the board and gives opposing defenders fits with his relentless style. He also has a previous relationship with the Redskins staff as offensive line coach Chris Foerster was his offensive line coach in San Francisco for the two years prior to joining Washington last season. He should be another player looking for a contract in that $4 million a year for 4 year range.
Analysis:
From a talent standpoint alone Brisiel would be my top choice, given both his ability and knowledge of the system, but the injury concerns could be a risk. Sendlein would be the next choice as I believe the Redskins could stick him at center and be pretty well set there for the next 4-6 years. Satele has the upside, while Baas is more of the steady veteran. In the end though the Redskins probably can't make a bad choice as any of the 4 would be an upgrade to what they currently have.
Steve Shoup has been a Redskins fan his entire life and dreams of the day they get back to the glory days of his youth. In addition to his regular piece on Hogs Haven, you can find his daily writings at Fanspeak.com.
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Good post
Finally a reality check about Licht & Montgomery.
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
i know it is early, but I don't know what scares me worst
Licht and Monty getting 21% or Satele getting 28%. I like Satele but he is not as good as the other 3 (though younger).
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
I don’t understand the knock on Montgomery, by all accounts he was our best lineman last year in his first year seeing a lot of action. He’s only 28, showed promise at Guard and Center, and he’s a hometown guy (Centreville).
He could be a vital piece to our o-line for the next few years
"You're fucking out!"
if he is your 5th best lineman than you might be fine, b/c he is solid
but when he is any higher up on the food chain you are going to have issues.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 13, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly.
He’d be fine as one of the blue collar guys to play alongside more highly regarded players.
But if our G-C-G is Licht-Rabach-Montgomery:
yikes.
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Your Capers fetish is truly awesome.
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I just think he has talent
Lots of players come into the league with little fanfare, and become solid pros. Hope he’s one of them. it would be nice to see us hit on a late round draft pick.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
How does capers transition from tackle to guard? and I’m curious to know why you left out Montgomery
"You're fucking out!"
Capers could play either with his athletic ability
just as many guys in the NFL do. He pulled wery well when WVU ran the zone trap. I’d like to see him at T, but whatever gives him a better shot at contributing.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
I've been saying for a while that a new center is the most important piece.
I’ll be honest, I don’t know much about the guys listed above, but thet’re younger than Rabach and CAN’T be worse.
"That's what she said!"
just to clarify Biesiel is really a guard only the other 3 can play center though (or are center's only)
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
remember this post was written with the premise that we had already signed Yanda and a RT
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
If that's the case
Does that assume that the Selection for starting both Licht and Monty means one of them would be starting at C?
If so, that would not be the end of the world for this year. Provided we make finishing the rebuilding of the O-line a priority in next year’s draft.
A Redskin Potato
by Mr PotatoHead on Jul 12, 2011 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah if LIcht and Monty were both starting one would be the starting center
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 13, 2011 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I think we gotta sign at least one
I would not be opposed to two. We can’t take trash from other teams and then just jump on the hype train and pretend they are gonna become a quality NFL starter. Montgomery and Licht are solid guys, but competition brings out the best in people, and it is better to have 2 starting quality RGs or Cs then 0.
Though I wouldn't mind it I don't see them signing 4 linemen
I think we need at least one big name (I hope Yanda) one RT (depending on how much money we have will depend how good we can get) and hopefully one of the above.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
The thing about offensive lines is...
no matter how good you are, the group determines how well you do. There needs to be some sort of chemistry amongst the line, and i don’t see that happening in the short time we have before the season if we get too many new guys. I absolutely love the Yanda signing if that were possible, but i think resigning brown might be the best option for RT that way only 2 new free agents would have to learn a new system. my vote for the other guy actually goes to Incognito
by ptowny on Jul 13, 2011 7:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Chemistry is so important
But you’ve got to build chemistry with the right offensive line, you know? We might have to go through a rough year, but a couple of young, skilled, FA OL will give our offensive line better potential then what we’ve got now.
I hesitate to resign Brown after the season he had last year, but I give it to him that he had to transition to RT and was coming off an injury the year before.
Good point...
i’d rather have harris as our starting RT, but it seems like too many changes would disrupt everything….of course, these guys are professionals and they’d learn and make adjustments a few weeks into the season. you changed my mind, i want yanda, harris, and dahl haha
I'd rather give Capers a shot
than sign Harris. Just not a big fan. I think you guys will be disappointed with Harris. He’s reall not all that good. JB is much better, even when injured.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
not last year he wasn't
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 13, 2011 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
At the end of the season, when he was starting to feel close to 100%
JB was better than Harris.
IDK what your infatuation is with Harris. He’s not that good.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
Harris' plus is that he knows Shanahan's ZBS, but as a power blocker he is mediocre. The only
advantage Harris has over Jammal Brown is that he is younger. Both have injury histories. Brown’s ZBS experience is more recent and with other Skins’ OL (continuity). Willie Colon might be interesting if you knew how well he recovered from his Achilles injury.
by Jefferson1935 on Jul 13, 2011 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
comming off an injury as you mentioned plus we had zero continuity
If we bring in Harris and he doesn’t perform until a few good games late in the season do we sign another RT the following year?
I think we should try to bring in a top FA gaurd to compete with licht and Mont for 1 of the two starting spots. we try to resign Brown and keep rabach, next year we replace Rabach with one of the top 3 centers in the draft thereby improving the “talent” level of our O-line each year while upgrading 1 spot leaving room for continuity between the other 4 spots.
If there is a year to mix it up
I guess this would be the year to do so, but if we do bring in 2-3 FA’s on the O-Line, I hope they are younger guys, who can be part of the team for the next 4-5 years.
I’m a big believer in continunity on the O-Line. I would love to see some stability for 5 years straight.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
which would be the best reason why not to sign Brown
if you want stability signing Brown is the exact opposite of that. He’s had both knees reconstructed and major hip surgery in his career. What are the odds you get 3 straight years of him being healthy much less 5?
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 13, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Your fine with bringing in Jenkins on our D-Line
He’s had 2 major ACL surgeries. Your also fine bringing in a 31 year old NT in franklin. I’m sure you’d be happy with Cullen Jenkins too. The older, the better for you.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
I just don't think Capers is ready
I might be more of a believer in him than say Cook or some of our other young guys, but he probably needs at least a full year of being a backup before he gets a shot. And having a truncated offseason doesn’t help him at all. Sure he knows the playbook, but that isn’t the issue, he needs to develop and he hasn’t been able to do that.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 13, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
You, I or the majority of the media have no idea where Capers is at this stage of his development
He needed to get stronger from last summer, but WE don’t know where he is now. For all we know, he could be benching 500lbs, squatting 600lbs and deadlifting 700lbs. We just don’t know. Everything you assume about him is just a guess right now.
One more item: Mike Moeller, who played with him at WVU was kind enough to coe on and talk about Capers potential. He agreed, that although it may take a season, he said he was of starting calibur, and his athleticism was his biggest assett. He also spoke to his coachibility, and work ethic.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
There are educated guesses.
The guy has never been an elite prospect, and he didn’t get off the practice squad last year.
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I'm not saying he's all pro right now
All i’m saying is I’d like to see him have a shot. The guy certainly has the body, and athleticism to be a T in this league.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
I'll also take a guys word who played with him
over a guy who barely knows him
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
Sure it would be great if Capers were ready to be a starter...
But I wouldn’t bank on that, and I’m certainly not ready to hand him the starting job before training camp even starts.
I want there to be a guy in place that we KNOW is starter material. Right now Capers is not that guy. If Capers can win the starting job over Brown or whoever we sign instead, then more power to him, and so much the better for the Redskins.
A Redskin Potato
by Mr PotatoHead on Jul 13, 2011 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions
but Brown is a FA
if we still had Brown under contract maybe you have a point.
Brown is older, has a far worse injury history, played worst last year, and will cost more money…exactly what does he bring to the table?
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 13, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
He brings to the table exactly what all your other FA ideas bring
Old, injured and overpaid
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
I voted
a little to quickly. Here is my standpoint. I believe Shanahan wants to bring continuation on the line and I’m really starting to believe hes going to try and resign Brown. Looking at a Offensive Line ranking earlier today, it seemed to really cover how well a player fairs for the team. Will Montgomery showed us the best and pass protection and Lichtensteiger provided us with the best run blocking. It pointed out the problems clearly to me about how Trent Williams fared as well.
I picked the last thing in the poll because i initially thought retain those guys. I’m all about signing competition and this would be a good idea to maybe get one of these guys in here. At the moment I want to give the line another season, especially with Lict and Will. (Will to center if Yanda is picked up).
So yea bring in the competition but let Shanahan find the the stability. I think we might really hurt ourselves worse if we just revamp the whole line, this system really seems like it needs time to develop.
I'm afraid that is what they will do, but that will lead to disaster
how about we build up continuity with guys of talent and not a bunch of empty shirts.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 12, 2011 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Litch and Montgomery should be retained and probably start the season. With the late start the other OL will need some
time to catch up, but their talent should overtake the Skins from the 2010 season. That way the Team would have the best of both talent and continuity. The Skins would then have quality depth as well as starters. Payroll might dictate the starters, but the older starters sat last year.
Active Roster: Brown, Jammal; Williams, Trent; Cook, Erik; Montgomery, Will; Lichtensteiger, Kory; Capers, Selvish; and three new OL
Cut: Heyer, Stephon; Hicks, Artis; Williams, Mike; Rabach, Casey; Oldenburg, Clint
Practice Squad: Fulton, Xavier; Hurt, Maurice
by Jefferson1935 on Jul 12, 2011 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
If FA O-Linemen are brought in
I’ll assume it will be to start from day 1. The whole league will be a little behind from the get go. It certainly wont hurt us to be behind too. We aren’t going far either way, with Rex or Beck as our QB.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
I agree anyone who comes in will start if healthy
so game one or two might be a rough patch, their talent alone will put them above Licht, Monty, Capers etc.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 13, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
More I think about it....The more I want Doug Free for my RT....
and if Trent can’t handle the duties they are interchangable.I only want to bring 2 new atarting linemen at a time.
If we go with Licht and Mony, that means we sre upgrading the C position in the process.
Add Yanda and Free AND pull Rabach out of the starting five? I ain’t bitchin about ANYTHING!!!!!!
I could go with that.
Only thing that scares me is that Free might be overrated because he plays for the Cowboys. (That tends to happen)
"That's what she said!"
On PFT
there is an article about the Falcons probably letting Dahl and Clabo go through free agency.
Dahl is a little old, but Clabo would be nice.
"That's what she said!"
Re-think that one
Age being the only factor……………yes, but they’re not even close talent wise. Personally, I’d pass on both.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
but it isn't the only factor
Harris will come in a lot cheaper, does know the system, and has had his best season in the ZBS. And is still developing unlike a Brown or Clabo (though Clabo doesn’t really need to develop b/c he is at a Pro Bowl level)
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 13, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
What system? The ZBS?
I posted before, every college and pro team runs some sort of ZBS scheme. The stretch play, which every team has, is all Zone Blocking. It’s not rocket science to have a linemen block and area, instead of a set guy.
People are reading way too much into this ZBS stuff.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
I've been saying from the beginning...
Yanda is the priority. I have promoted the idea of Harris’ signing (for all you unbelievers-last year was different system and injuries; look at his performance a couple of years ago…and remember, he is still young). Monty is a better option at center than Rabach. I would be comfortable with the 2 FA signings; BUT, if we do sign a center, like Satele, they would not get any grief from me.
I guess I'll explain
So we signed Yanda and a RT. I like the sound of trent, licht, montgomery, yanda, RT while drafting a center/guard next draft to start right away. That depends on montgomery’s progression as center and if he can hold down the position. I’d prefer him to move to LG if possible and have licht play center then draft a center next year and licht be our career backup.
"You're fucking out!"
How about getting Capers feet wet this year
Then drafting a C and a G in the 2012 draft with our 2nd and 3rd round picks. Sign one FA like Yanda, and call it a day. Then ourteam is built with mainly Redskins, not a collective mix of other teams players.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
hen ourteam is built with mainly Redskins, not a collective mix of other teams players.
I really want our core of the team to be built with redskins drafted players, I’m cool with relying on some of our rookies to carry a bulk of the workload in 2011. I feel like it would be foolish not to test the FA market this year though, as long as we go about it being smart and not going balls to the wall for every big name out there. But we have soooo many holes and great cap room so it’s tempting
"You're fucking out!"
I agree to a point
especially about going after the big name guys out there, or the older vets. I’m definitly on the Yanda bandwagon. Another young G wouldn’t hurt either.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
As Steve has mentioned the Skins have a lot of money to spend to reach the expected minimum of the new CBA.
Where else do you propose to spend the big bucks? There is no option to spending. It is mandatory.
by Jefferson1935 on Jul 13, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we should resign some players that we already have that Shanny plans to keep around.
I’d also sign some solid free agents in our most glaring positions of need that they don’t plan on addressing in next years draft (except G/C, I want a free agent and a 3 or higher draft pick next year). But I want to stay away from aging/frequently hurt players.
"You're fucking out!"
who are you hoping they resign?
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 14, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Without looking at contracts:
I’d look to extend Landry, Davis, Alexander,
I know it won’t amount to much but it’ll take some of the cap room away
"You're fucking out!"
Lock up LoAx to play what.
He’s 28 and a man w/o a position. Jack of trades, master of none.
@Diesel__44 on the twitter machine.
He's a master of LIFE
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Alexander is under control through 2012 for under 700K
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Know where I can find all the contract info for the skins so I can give you a better list?
"You're fucking out!"
Rotoworld
most accurate info, go under NFL and contracts
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Here's a few more that need to be resigned come 2012
London Fletcher, Adam Carriker, Anthony Bryant (maybe), Licht (maybe), Will Montgomery.
We could restructure anyone’s deal during the year that is deserving of it
"You're fucking out!"
anthony bryant is a stop gap and not a starter
same with Licht (and Monty kinda). Carriker at best will get $3-4 million, Fletcher won’t be a real increase on what he is making. I’m just saying it won’t eat up much like you think.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 15, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I get that
We won’t be breaking the bank for any of them but it will chew up some of space we surprisingly have.
"You're fucking out!"
and I'm fine with that, but it looks like we will still have a ton of money
with a number of holes. It makes zero sense to hope to pay, Monty, Carriker and a few other guys a couple extra million, when you know we can get upgrades this season.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
The increased spending requirement won’t require teams to spend the money now. The Bengals can hold that cap space deep into the regular season, eventually using it to extend the contracts of players already on the team.
So we can go into the season with a bunch of dudes on one year contracts and extend the players that show us they will put in the work and excel.
"You're fucking out!"
yeah but we don't have players that fit that bill
Landry is only the real big money extension
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 15, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
why would we not sign actual free agents who are good and sign guys that are below replacement level
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 15, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
but who would we extend?
You aren’t going to sign any quality FA’s for one year deals, so it is our own guys.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
I voted for Satele.
A player I really think the Skins will get. Young player and a value contract, familiarity to system and coach, creates increased competition, solid depth, and provides stop-gap ability.
Regarding Montgomery, he has good upside in my opinion as his skill-set is suited to this type of offense. He was miscast with the Jets, Panthers, Zorn, and a zbs spread type offense should showcase his strengthes.
As an aside on Sendlein.
While I agree, he is a better player, the Cardinals are almost suredly going to re-sign him as a priority. They have a boatload of money to spend as well, and they have already stated the O-line is priority #1.
This also applies to Yanda, and the Ravens will go hard after him in my opinion. Any comparable salary offer between the 2 teams, and Yanda is staying in Baltimore.
Sendlein and Yanda will only come to Washington if they blow Arizona and Baltimore’s offer out the door in my honest opinion, which would be a huge mistake in my honest opinion.
I agree more with Sendlein than Yanda
For one Yanda is arguably a top 5 guard in this league, but people don’t realize it b/c he is buried on that Ravens line with higher pedigree players.
Also the Ravens don’t have a ton of money, they have so many mega FA’s these next couple years that I don’t know how they can afford to resign Yanda to a market value deal.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 14, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
The Ravens draft OL so well that we can take their castoffs as major upgrades.
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
true to the first point
but Yanda isn’t a castoff, on another team he’d be recognized as a top Guard, but with Oher, Birk, Grubbs and Gaither he doesn’t get that credit.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jul 14, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I don't mean castoff like unapprecaited
but castoff as in, “too many players, not enough positions”
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
gotcha
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

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