HH Community GM: Nose Tackle
by Parks Smith on Jun 29, 2011 10:24 AM EDT
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PrintMy faith is officially restored in Redskins nation yesterday when we collectively passed up Nnamdi Asomugha for Bengals cornerback Jonathan Joseph. We have now signed two players and are down to $49 million left, after starting with $66 million dollars.
Players Signed
Ryan Harris, RT: 6 Years, $5 Million
Jonathan Joseph, CB: 6 Years, $12 Million
After some "suggestions" (I hope everyone took their Midol) we will be exploring another controversial position today for the Redskins 2011 campaign, the Nose Tackle. Unlike previous votes there will be an option to pass and stay put with Kemo, Neild, and Bryant (and Jenkins if you want to throw him in there). Tomorrow we will move on to the guard position and go on from there.
So who is going to be Redskins Fan, who is the man to plug the middle for Jim Haslett? O yea, and Fat Albert is not an option for this one.
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I hate to say it, but Franklin is the pick
He’s old, he’s expensive, he’s everything we detest about Vinny’s wheeling and dealing… but he’s also talented, still has gas in the tank, and he’s the only good fit where we can upgrade in FA this year with someone who excels in the 3-4.
I’m holding my nose on this, but even with the upgrades we made everywhere else on D (especially with Joseph, Kerigan, et al), we’re still going to be way too soft in the middle without a 3-4 NT we can count on. Jenkins may be the answer in a year (I thought he was the answer for THIS year, but Shannahan has now convinced me he’s not going to be used that way this year). So Franklin is our only chance to become an elite D again without an infusion of new talent… probably the second round pick for next year. And even then, I’d rather use that pick on a top Guard or Center……
No Danny, Nooooooo - Tom Landry, 1982., and Washington Redskins fans, 1999-
by BillWard on Jun 29, 2011 10:43 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Why hold your nose? Your first statement is very weak -
he’s not old, or not too old, since he still has gas in the tank, he’s not too expensive for us at 8 mill, and Vinny is irrelevant, and there’s certainly nothing wrong with wheeling and dealing. Don’t make decisions based on supposed incorrect paradigm. If he is the guy we want (and I don’t have an opinion on that), then get him if we can. Simple!
Only in a vacuum
we have a ton of holes. I prefer cheaper replacements and slow growth.
by Jim America on Jun 29, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The issue is he's not a LONG TERM answer.
He’s a mid term, until we acquire the guy we want for the next decade. If he were 26, this would be a no-brainer. But he’s not, he’s getting to the age where players are playing out the last of their peak years. I want him peaking in two-six years. He’ll be peaking in the next two, then start slowing down.
It’s rent a vet with this… but he can help us until we get “The Guy” two years or so from now.
No Danny, Nooooooo - Tom Landry, 1982., and Washington Redskins fans, 1999-
by BillWard on Jun 29, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Let's give him 20+ mil guaranteed!!!
What could go wrong with giving a former Tennessee Volunteer all that cake..
@Diesel__44 on the twitter machine.
Untrue
DT’s/NT’s get pretty beaten up(See Kemo). This is a 320 lbs man were talking about. Maybe has 3 years left, but certainly not at a high level. The time, effort and coaching would be better spent on a younger player.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
You do realize 8 out of the leagues Top 10 NTs will be 30 or older this year?
For some reason NT are exceptions to the rule a lot of the time and last a good amount of time. Just think of historically good nose tackles and how long they have lasted. Kemo is a terrible example to prove this point, he had a freak achilles injury, not a wear and tear injury.
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If thats what you choose to believe
then who am I to tyr to reason with you. Good luck with this one.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
I disagree with the "not at a high level" part.
However, the reason I’m holding my nose is the FIRST part of that statement, “Maybe has 3 years left”, being something I agree with. I think he’ll be a high end player for 3 years or so…at which point, we’d just have to go out and replace him again.
I’d rather fix the problem for the longer term, but there aren’t any 3-4 young NTs that are high quality. So Franklin is the choice for the next couple years…. but we’ll need to replace him with a high pick NLT 2016.
No Danny, Nooooooo - Tom Landry, 1982., and Washington Redskins fans, 1999-
I understand the reasoning Bill
But don’t you think the resources should go towards trying to coach-up/develope our own guy(minus Kemo of course). We have two big bodies(both of whom have the ability to be serious run cloggers), in Neild and Jenkins. Both of these guys are also fairly athletic big men too. I know Bryant leaves a little to be desired, but he can be a rotational guy.
Anyone who thinks Franklin, at 31 years old, is the same as he was when he was 25-29, is just dilusional. Yes he may still be effective for 2-3 more years, but to say it will be on a high level is a risk, and IMO, it’s a risk not worth taking.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
generally I would agree with that logic....
but I think there are other issues at play here. Jenkins and Neild are both rookies and should still some good reps in rotation allowing them to grow into the position, it’s not like Franklin would play every snap, they will get the chance to develop. That is not the biggest issue for me though, It’s more about the guys playing directly behind him. We have some “possibles” at ILB, and Fletcher of course. These guys need to develop as well. I really don’t want to see Landry making 200 tackles on running plays this year, potentially shortening his career significantly.
I'm on the Jenkins train.... but Shanny keeps throwing me on the tracks
I think Jenkins COULD be the NT of the future…. but Shanny keeps saying that he’s a DE, not an NT, in the 3/4. If Shanny would say “He’ll be playing NT for us and some DE”, I’d stand pat, no Franklin. But that’s not what he’s saying. Unless he’s lying to everyone, that means we have a NT problem.
I’m not convinced Nield will be anything more than a project ala Capers and Cook this year, so I’m not counting on him. In that case, we need someone to hold the fort down. Can Kemo do that? Maybe. Crystalball says “Doubtful”, though, so again smart money says we have to hold our nose and take the best guy out there for our needs; that’s Franklin, who’s already in his peak; the upside is that he’s good in the 3/4. But he won’t be getting better, either.
No Danny, Nooooooo - Tom Landry, 1982., and Washington Redskins fans, 1999-
Nothing says we HAVE to take the best guy avaliable at NT
There is nothing wrong with using our own players for once. I know it’s not popular opinion aroung here, but the alternative hasn’t worked for shit.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
If the Skins don't get the best available guy at NT (presumably Franklin), it is likely that the
rookies (Neild and Jenkins) as well as Brandt would do a better job at NT than Kemo did in 2010. That is not saying that their combined performance would be better than an average NT. There are still other experienced NTs that could be had in free agency as well as a few UDFA that have NT potential.
The Team would not be breaking the bank or really risking much. We will know shortly what the FO has done. But get real “we as on HH” don’t have much impact on the Redskins or any other NFL teams decisions. We can only go by the FO’s public statements that they will be aggressive in free agency. Whether they are or not aggressive is yet to be seen. The only fact is that 2011 may be the best chance they have to upgrade the roster in any one year for a long time.
by Jefferson1935 on Jul 1, 2011 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jun 30, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Smoke screen alert!
Shanny just said Jenkins would be D-End. He will play the nose and we sign Cullen Jenkins.
"That's what she said!"
He's said that all along. Jenkins has said he's more comfortable at NT.
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by Parks Smith on Jun 29, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
He'll be a beast
He made Da’Quan Bowers.
"That's what she said!"
by iH8dallas on Jun 29, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't want any of these guys...voted for NO ONE
I would be happy to roll with our no-namers in 2011 at NT and then maybe use another 2nd or 3rd round pick next year on a big body along the D-line to build up a solid platoon.
We need to build up depth this year at key positions and signing guys over the age of 30 at this point would hamper those efforts.
You know if Jenkins is part of that rotation then I'm on board, if not, no thanks.
It would still be a rotation. Kemo sucks, Bryant isn’t good and is lazy, and Neild is a 7th Rounder. NT is to important of a position to just try out some hacks for a season. It’s like not having a QB on offense, o wait, we don’t.
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by Parks Smith on Jun 29, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree....
even more so because I would like to see us go with what we have at ILB and we can’t do that and remain weak at NT. (although we will obviously need to address ILB very soon with London in the twilight of his career.
Obviously depending on what we do in FA and how this year plays out, but for the most part I don’t see this changing as my top four priorities going into next years draft.
QB, G/C, NT, ILB
"You're fucking out!"
I agree with the first two absolutely,
Hard to predict what the need will be at NT, I really hope we pick up a quality NT in the FA (I am on the Franklin bus) we will have to see how Neild develops. A lot of people like to bring up the fact that he was the second to the last pick of the draft, but some of these people were pretty high on Ian Williams before the draft and he didn’t even get picked. I think there just weren’t a lot of teams looking to fill that position. So I would bump ILB up to #3, for now anyway.
Kris Jenkins,
Only because he’s a stop gap until we find the answer for the future. Getting him on the cheap will fill a void for right now, and allow us to use a pick or two early next year to fix the problem permanently. But to just roll out with the guys we had last year, I think won’t help the defense improve at all.
What the shit
kris jenkins
might not be a bad consolation prize he ran the jets 3-4 for a long time….although he does have an injury history. If signed cheap enough it could work with a good rotation to keep him healthy.
I just feel like we have enough broken down parts.
Man Phil Taylor or Kenrick Ellis would have been nice.
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by Parks Smith on Jun 29, 2011 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I was really hoping for Ellis
Of course Taylor was the best one, but Ellis would have been a great value pick.
That's the guy I voted for
After 2 injury plagued seasons, he should come with a cheap price. He was a force b4, so why not sign him to a cheap contract and see what he can do? He has experience in the 3-4, and he would still be better than what we have now.
It’s just so risky though, we brought in a bunch of players last year that had previous injury problems that we were banking on being back to 100%.
I’m not completely against it because I think we have to draft a NT next year in the top three rounds and he would be a great stop gap player for a year or two as well as we need a body to take up some snaps, but his knee really concerns me. Really concerns me.
"You're fucking out!"
For much less money we could sign..
NT- Gabe Watson
DE- Alan Branch
ILB- Posluszny
@Diesel__44 on the twitter machine.
I don't get the Pos signing. I'd rather see what Riley or Hen can do.
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by Parks Smith on Jun 29, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Or HB Blades. I have a feeling that a lot of peeps are going to be upset when Henson doesn't make the 53 man roster.
He’ll then join the ranks of Marko Mitchell, Colt, and Marcus Mason.
@Diesel__44 on the twitter machine.
I agree on Henson. I don't think he would of made the squad last year.
I’ll be real interested to see if HB comes back, he’s definitely put in some time for us.
I’m waiting for the “but Henson looked real good against the Cardinals” argument.
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by Parks Smith on Jun 29, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Henson would have been the odd man out last year if not for landing on the IR.
It would have been Fletch, Rocky, Blades, & Reily.
@Diesel__44 on the twitter machine.
I agree
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by Parks Smith on Jun 29, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
We're still not sure what LoAx is going to do, that's a complete wild card.
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by Parks Smith on Jun 29, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
but Henson looked real good against the Cardinals
didn’t want to disappoint…
thanks, now I can sleep tonight
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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Watson might be marginally better than Bryant (since he's beaten him out in the past)
but he’s not really the answer. Not a bad depth pickup though
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jun 30, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
did anyone look at his picture?
Wow. He sure looks the part. I believe we will pursue him agressively, but….
Jamal would be my stop gap. He played in San Diego’s 3-4 for years and was, at one time, one of the best DL in the league. He no longer is, but he still has the size to plug the middle, which is the point. Haslett’s version of the 3-4 requires a plugger.
Coefield would be ok, so would Watson. I just don’t think we can do nothing. Someone needs to be added to rotate with Bryant.
Right - we need a good NT - the best we can get, who fits the system - under 8 million
Just get the guy Shanahan/Haslett want.
Maybe.....
and maybe I get enamored with getting some of FA’s these guys in position….the “what if’s”. You have taken a hard stance against it and I respect that, and I am very hopeful of Neild. This pretty much all offseason banter anyway, they didn’t do what I would have liked in the draft (beforehand) but I am very happy with what they did do…so we will see how it turns out.
just like how the Shanahan's traded for their QB in Beck?
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jun 30, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
i agree, but the same logic applies
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
gotta go with franklin
he is clearly the best nt available in a shallow pool which is due to the fact that good nose tackles are hard to come by because they are like left tackles in the league teams usually dont let the good ones ever hit the free agent market,so when one does you have to jump on it especially if it is the center piece to your defenses success. i like jenkins or jamal williams just as veteran rotational insurance to compete with kemo,all 3 have injury concerns so basically get them in camp and see who shakes out as the best fit and even if they dont stay healthy you have youthful options in the form of brayant,nield and rotate in jenkins in certain spots.but i only take jenkins or williams at a veteran minimum.two guys i am intrigued by are coefield and mebane,both young ,both run stuffers,the only question is do they fit in the 3-4,we need to get the right personel for the system this year we already tried converting 4-3 personel to the 3-4 and it just doesnt work.but franklin should be the #1 target we missed on shaun rogers and did not draft phil taylor,so franklin is the guy and pickup other pieces after that to complement him and solidify the d-line.
Franklin
He seldom, if ever , misses games. He is an essential part to the entire scheme that Haslett runs. Next year, Neild will be the second coming of Jim Burt, but he isnt quite ready. We could go with Watson, Cofield, Jenkins,or Williams as a stop gap, but prefer to add Franklin, wait on Neild, and wait the defense start to perform
For $2 mill and 2 years
I’ll take a flyer on Jenkins
Voted for Franklin
But signing Cofield away from the giants would be awesome because they’d be forced to start either Linval Joseph or Marvin Austin. I like our chances versus a rookie or 2nd yearer over facing Cofield!
Be careful what you wish for in Marvin Austin
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Austin potentially has Haynesworth written all over him
I hope he’s nothing but a GIANT pain in the ass for them
by CuseSkinsfan1 on Jun 30, 2011 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions
So he's going to be an All-Pro for the Giants and then come here and suck?
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Admittedly, most players do ...
But Cofield always looks like a Pro Bowler against the Skins. Call it small sample size viewing, but I’ll take him for less money than Franklin.
by Old King Clancy on Jun 29, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
What defensive lineman doesn't look like a pro bowler against us?
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I think the correct answer to that would be 'our own'
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Jun 30, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
NT
I go with the franklin.
Didn’t I already make a post about this or was this topic discussed in another post? Maybe i’m in the matrix..
shit there’s a bunch of guys in suites here..
The Beat Box aka skins secondary.
Franklin, I agree
He has a subperb record for staying healthy and being able to clog up space. This is where I think a proven vet would be most helpful for us. And although he is 31I feel he has quite a few good years left in him. I think Casey Hampton and him have really shown they can do it at their age and Casey is 33, I would love 2 good years+. By that time hopefully we will have found our QB and an identity for our Offensive Line.
I love our “fake” signings so far. I think Ryan Harris can be the real deal for us if Jammal leaves. Our CB decision is decent and I’m really pulling for Barnes this year. I also hope to see one of our ILB step up this year.
Did anyone read about Davin Joseph’s ultimatum to the Bucs? Maybe he might leave if they dont pull the trigger and we could find a nice starter.
I think that's safe to say.
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I'm just curious to hear the Kris Jenkins arguement
This is an old guy coming off of two ACL tears. Sure he was great a few years ago but regardless of price, you can’t convince me this guy is gonna come in on two repaired knees, be in great shape, unaffected by age, and be back from injury well. What makes him better then Kemoeatu?
I voted for Franklin by the way. Most expensive, but we need the best NT because we need a top DL for the 3-4 to work well. Look at any top 3-4 team (Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Green Bay).
I am not understanding the Jenkins argument either
six games two years ago, six plays last year ?? That knee is done, we just went thru a season with a NT trying to play thru an injury with very little success.
We're turning into the same old Redskins
That we’ve been for the last Decade. Ken(and a few others)seem to be the only ones with brains around here.
Funny, who guys all bitched/still bitch about Vinny around here, yet you(as pretend GM’s are doing the same thing he would have done.
Wow, all I can say is WOW.
The attitude of this fan base hasn’t changed, nor will it anytime soon.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
Haha, you do the same thing all thie time! Pot, kettle thing.
You’ve been clamoring for Sidney Rice, Vince Young, Antrell Rolle, DeAngelo Williams, Logan Mankins, Tambi Hali, and a slew of others. You’re the ultimate flip-flopper.
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I'm not clamoring for VY or Williams
I wrote a post about the two, and I was trying to be objective. That Williams post was also written before the draft. I will gladly take VY simply because he represents a huge upgrade over what we have on the roster, and he is still young. He will also come much cheaper than if he were to become a true FA. As for Rice, and Rolle, I stated my desire for these two over the likes of re-signing Moss, and if Carlos left.
Personally, I’d be fine if FA didn’t take place at all this year, and we went into the year with our starting WR corps/running backs looking like this:
Hank(#1)
Paul (slot #2)
Robinson/AA(deep threat #3)
Helu/Torain(2 man rotation)
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
You've been consistently saying a corps like that would be among the worst in the league!
And now you’re completely fine with it?
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No
I said a corp of Moss, Hank and AA would be bad. And I have also been saying that last years WR corps was bottom 3 in the league. You already know how I feel about the Rookies, so I don’t see why your looking to start trouble.
Reading skills and comprehension are your friends!
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
So you think a WR corp of Hankerson/Paul/Robinson is better than Moss/Hankerson/Armstrong?
I’m not trying to start anything, you just flip flop everyday and its confusing
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by Parks Smith on Jun 30, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
as much as I hate to say it I have to agree with Parks here.....a little bit....
I wont go as far as complete flip flopper, but inconsistent with your strategies (some yhings seem to aply in some places and not in others, in a seemingly random way). I respect your knowledge and opinions, but it is confusing at times.
Welcome to the darkside, I'll call you #9...
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by Parks Smith on Jun 30, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Part of my job is to be objective
If that seems like flip-flipping…………well then, so be it.
When I feel strongly about something, you guys always know it.
You know I want a young QB
You know I would like a red zone WR threat
You know I want an explosive RB
You know I want a new C and G
You know I have hope for Capers, and some of our other young players
You know I like Reiley as a MLB
You know how I felt about keeping Haynesworth
You know I always hated McNabb
You know I’m against bringing in aging vets as FA’s
You know I had my 3-4 favorites in the 2011 Draft
You know I don’t like Beck or Grossman at QB
You know I would be OK bringing in VY if he is released
You know I love and respect what Santana Moss has meant to the Skins, but it’s time to move on
You know I always put my thoughts and feelings out there, unlike SOME OTHER people on this board who are fence-sitters, and like to follow the opinion of other posters to gain popularity.
I could care less what people think of me or my opinions.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
You must of really hated high school.
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I don't see that....not completely....
We will always have a fans that just want to get the best guy around to fill a spot. When we are talking about the lines, we are talking about the guys who protect everybody else on the field. We are not going to be able to fill all these holes at once, might as well get quality players at a couple of positions on each side of the ball. We are not talking about trading draft picks for these guys, and not breaking the bank on highlight reel guys. The “acting like Vinnie” is a cop out in this case, paying top dollar for Sidney Rice on the other hand……
Kinda disagree.
Based on who we’ve chosen in these (with the exception of Franklin), we’ve gone YOUNG guys, with upside. Heck, Harris was far from the most expensive guy we could get, and the real “FF” Vinny pick is at WR and CB; Joseph was the pick, not Nnamdi at CB, and I’m pretty sure it’ll come down to something like Santana, no one, or Rice for WR. If we choose Rice, you might be right. If we choose Santana, you’ll say you’re right, but be wrong; we need Santana for that veteran preference while Hank becomes a superstar.
No Danny, Nooooooo - Tom Landry, 1982., and Washington Redskins fans, 1999-
Furthermore
saying Vinny is the same as a collective group of fan choices ain’t exactly a positive. Pretty much what I would expect. I realize your pointing out fan hypocrisy here, but you’re ascribing the preponderance of voters’ choices to individuals to whom it may or may not apply. Did that make sense?
by Jim America on Jun 30, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
how do you spend the $66 million (which is a fair projection) that the Redskins have
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Also, we don't know about dead cap space leftover from 2010.
And how that might affect this year’s cap. Until a new CBA is ratified, we don’t know exactly what they will do with all that money that was written off last year. We might have to eat a good portion of it as well as this year’s potential cuts. A big spending bonanza may be wittled down substantially when all is said and done. I would think the owners may want to implement some penalties on themselves, if only to control costs and police each other.
i really don't see the owners doing that
to penalize themselves would kill them, b/c unlike the Redskins most teams are actually affected by this FA class, look at teams like the Jets, Ravens etc. that have multiple really good starters who they need to resign or replace. if they start taking a huge penalty than they will have to let some guys go. The dead cap could be an issue, but the only real one of concern would be Andre Carter, under the old rules he is the only one we would have been paying more to cut than keep.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
I don't think any team took advantage of the uncapped year...
the way the Redskins did. Many teams pared down their payroll, the Skins and Cowboys ramped it up. I wouldn’t be surprised if many of the owners didn’t want to lay the smackdown on Jones and Snyder. Davis, Jones, and Snyder are a big part of the player salary problem in many people’s eyes, fellow owners included I would think.
I'm not on the Franklin bandwagon either.
Let’s see….sign an aging vet looking for one last giant payday? Yea….that strategy has been effective for us.
Jammal Brown is not the same thing, in case it comes up.
The team traded for him, a valuable pick no less, and he was on the team last year. I would like him back only with a value contract, and to keep continuity with the O-line. Plus, I think he still offers above average play, and is insurance at left tackle.
Franklin, to me, is Dana Stubblefield all over again.
he's still an FA looking for one last giant payday. And he was awful last year
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
It's not worth arguing over, and I agree, he was a disappointment for most of the season.
In my opinion, if Brown checks out medically at 100%, they will resign him. If not, they will go after Harris.
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