Making A Case For UDFA Center Jake Kirkpatrick

by redskinsfan909 on Jun 15, 2011 1:53 PM EDT

Jake Kirkpatrick (6'3 305 lb Center from TCU) was one of the best centers in college football in 2010, in fact, he was awarded the Rimington Trophy which is awarded to the nation's top center. According to SI.com in 2009, Kirkpatrick was a First Team All-American and was a finalist for the Rimington Trophy (which, again, is awarded to the nation's top center). Kirkpatrick was also one of four finalists for the 2010 Rotary Lombardi Award which rcognizes the nation's top lineman. Kirkpatrick was an outstanding center during not only the 2009 college football season, but also the 2010 college football season. Not only did Kirkpatrick actually set the blocking scheme on every play, but he also did not committ a single penalty or allow a single sack all of the 2010 season. Kirkpatrick started 26 consecutive games, a streak that started at the beginning of 2009.

With all that being said and a Senior Bowl appearance in which Kirkpatrick had a decent performance, it is mindboggling how a center of his caliber was not even invited to the NFL scouting combine. How does this happen to a player of Kirkpatrick's caliber? To make things even worse, Kirkpatrick was not drafted by any NFL team making him a rookie undrafted free agent. After reading countless scouting reports on Kirkpatrick and different opinions of him, I've basically narrowed it down to two worries about him that most people scouting him had. The first was that Kirkpatrick's arms were "too short" and he would supposedly be consistently "out leveraged by NFL defensive linemen" on the next level. The second was that most have never seen whether or not he could "hold his own" against elite nose tackles.

Jake Kirkpatrick is a heck of a player and I don't think that there is a legitimate reason to not give this guy a chance to prove himself in the NFL. With that being said and taking into account how much the Washington Redskins need help on the offensive line, I think the Redskins will be wise to go after Jake Kirkpatrick as soon as Free Agency is allowed. Kirkpatrick should be given a chance to prove himself in the NFL with all of the success he's had at the college level and I couldn't think of a better place for him to get his chance than on the Washington Redskins. We have a center in Casey Rabach that clearly needs to be replaced as soon as possible, and the chance to add another young talent to the offensive line to grow with a few other promising young linemen we have acquired. Personally I think the Redskins would be foolish to let this guy go un-noticed for much longer.

Poll

Should the Redskins go after Jake Kirkpatrick in Free Agency?

Yes

110 votes

No

3 votes

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Comments

When it comes to UDFA's....

It’s guys like these that usually prove their way onto a roster. I would love to see Kirkpatrick and maybe O’Dowd come in and compete for a roster spot.

by ptowny on Jun 15, 2011 2:09 PM EDT reply actions

I'm exhausted from speaking about Kirkpatrick here, I'll let someone else take over.

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by Parks Smith on Jun 15, 2011 2:34 PM EDT reply actions

Mooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaar Kirkpatrick!

by SSBlitz on Jun 15, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions

Why not?

Sign as many talented UFA’s as you can until you reach the roster limit. These guys come cheap so they are worth more of a gamble than draft picks. More UFAs make it in the league than 7th round picks. Why? Becasue each team only gets one 7th round pick each year (not counting compensatory picks), but can sign many UFAs.

Center is an obvious position of need for the Redskins. Sign him and see what he can do. If he earns a roster spot, great! If he doesn’t make the team, then so what?

A Redskin Potato

by Mr PotatoHead on Jun 15, 2011 4:40 PM EDT reply actions

That's my attitude for most of the UDFAs

If they are potentially a help, sign ‘em and see. If they aren’t good enough, we can let them go… if not, we’ve gotten something for next to nothing.

No Danny, Nooooooo - Tom Landry, 1982., and Washington Redskins fans, 1999-

by BillWard on Jun 15, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions

The Skins currently have 84 players listed on their roster. Twelve do not count on the 80 player roster limit since they are

unsigned drafted rookies. Kirkpatrick could become another one of the C/G players. It will be interesting to see how many UDFA
are brought in and what players out of the 72 players get displaced. The Skins will also be signing a number of free agents at positions of need. The new CBA may allow for more active players than the previous CBA if the NFL owners get their way on the 18 game regular season.

Who do you want to see displaced out of the following offensive linemen?
78 Lichtensteiger, Kory C 6-2 292 26 2 Bowling Green State
61 Rabach, Casey C 6-4 292 33 10 Wisconsin
58 Cook, Erik C/G 6-6 320 23 R New Mexico
63 Montgomery, Will C/G 6-3 310 28 4 Virginia Tech
0 Williams, Mike G 6-7 337 31 7 Texas
0 Hurt, Maurice G 6-3 318 23 R Florida
75 Hicks, Artis G/T 6-4 318 32 9 Memphis
60 Capers, Selvish OT 6-5 315 25 R West Virginia
67 Fulton, Xavier OT 6-5 301 25 2 Illinois
74 Heyer, Stephon OT 6-6 330 27 4 Maryland
77 Brown, Jammal T 6-6 313 30 6 Oklahoma
68 Oldenburg, Clint T 6-5 305 27 1 Colorado State
71 Williams, Trent T 6-5 318 22 R Oklahoma

by Jefferson1935 on Jun 15, 2011 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions

The time span for the coaches to filter out each position will be more limited than usual this season.

by Jefferson1935 on Jun 15, 2011 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Mike Williams?

Does anyone even know if he will be able to return to football?

Also I would not be surprised if Heyer is not re-signed.

There are about 8 RBs currently on the roster (including the draft picks). One of them could be let go to make room for a O-line prospect.

A Redskin Potato

by Mr PotatoHead on Jun 15, 2011 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions

I haven't heard anything

But he is 6’6" 350lbs. The guy is just too big for zone blocking, there is way too much moving and he just doesn’t have the speed for it.

by BigOLinemen on Jun 15, 2011 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Agree that Big Mike will probably not make the squad this year but I disagree on your reasoning

he’s been consistantly praised for his quick feet and agility. infact those were 2 of the big reasons he was taken #4 overall as a tackle.

by skinsfan28 on Jun 16, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Quick feet and agility

Are different from speed. The guy has the footwork to be a fine tackle and to block guys, but zone blocking requires more getting to the 2nd level, and that’s not his forte. His 2 year layoff and his period of being overweight didn’t help his agility and footwork either.

by BigOLinemen on Jun 16, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions

so i guess my problem is your assumptions being based on his size

you say zone blocking is not his forte backed up by your previous statement of “The guy is just too big for zone blocking”

But do you know what his 40 time was or more importantly what his 10 yard time is/was? or is all just based on your assumption that big people can’t be fast? also he’s listed as 336 lbs not 350 and 6’7" not 6’6" and Mike Shanahan the guru of zone blocking evaluated him high enough to reward him with a 2 year contract extention when Shanahan first got here.

Again, Not argueing with you on the point that Mike Williams probably will not be on the team next year, just disagreeing with your reasoning. I believe it will be his blood clots that keep him off the roster not his size or speed

by skinsfan28 on Jun 16, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions

Mike Williams 40 yard time in 2002 was 5.30. I was not able to find 10 or 20 yard splits at the combines

or at a pro day. The measurements for Redskin OL were shown in http://www.hogshaven.com/2011/5/9/2162874/another-look-at-offensive-line-depth. The slowest 40 yard time for a Skins’ OL was Erik Cook at *5.55, but his 20 yard split was *3.16, and, 10yard split was *1.74. The point being that in shorter distances where the OL game is played the 40 yard time is meaningless. * indicates pro day events. In IMO, a 1.80 second ten yard split is about as slow as would be desirable for ZBS.

by Jefferson1935 on Jun 16, 2011 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Players get listed at what looks good

My freshman year of high school my coach listed me at 6’4" 300lbs and I was about 6’0" 240lbs. The same thing can happen to make BMW look in better shape.
I don’t know his 40, I surely don’t. But I just know when you miss the time he did, even if he dropped to 335 he was not in athletic shape with great footwork immediately after losing weight because skills, strength, and athleticism deteriorate, and after the blood clots, I don’t think he’ll be in the right shape again unfortunately. I really wish him the best and I think if he came straight out of college here, it’d be a different story. Lineman just aren’t “too big” for zone blocking, it is definitely a speed thing, but I just don’t trust he has it.

by BigOLinemen on Jun 18, 2011 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions

The Seattle Seahawks drafted two larger offensive linemen this year. Seattle may still be a zone

blocking team. Gibbs (not Joe) who was the offensive line coach under Shanahan at Denver has been one of the main proponents of ZBS in pro football. Gibbs also pushed the concept of smaller more mobile OL (same thing in his book).
There are not many OL at the size of Robert Gallery, OG Raiders. Under their former coach, now with the Seahawks, ZBS was the blocking scheme.
2010 Season: “Raiders: Performances of note (week 14) […] But it wasn’t all good news for the Raiders, and the big problem was the offensive line. It’s time to single out Robert Gallery (-5.9) for his woeful run blocking, and even worse pass protection. He made it tough for his quarterback to step up into the pocket by giving up a sack, a hit and three further quarterback pressures” – http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/12/15/re-focused-week-14-raiders-at-jaguars/. Week 8: “Oakland is still struggling on the O-line, and Robert Gallery (-3.3), ordinarily a pretty good guard who busted so spectacularly at tackle, had a very bad day. Gallery was beaten in the run game, and was also responsible for a couple of penalties, one of which came late in the game as the Raiders were trying to run the clock out” – http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/11/04/refocused-week-8-seahawks-raiders./ Week 1: As expected, LG Robert Gallery posted the top grade among Oakland offensive linemen (+1.0), but left the game with an injury.
In 2009, Gallery was the 20th rank OG in PFF with an overall rating of 4.8 with about 1/3 of the seasons snaps due to injury.
Gallery is 6-8 and has had a mixed success in the NFL. He was draft to be an OT, but has only found mixed success as an OG.
The Jets are also a ZBS team: Ferguson and Mangold are the dominant OL of that team and do not have exceptional size for OL. The Colts are a ZBS team and it is not exactly fair to judge their OL because of their salary focus on Manning.

by Jefferson1935 on Jun 19, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions

Not arguing on any of the points

but Shanahan clearly liked him – one of the few Redskin vets he signed when he took over, and also kept him on IR when he got sick. Losing Mike was one of the things that sent us reeling last year. Mike apparently played well at RG – better than tackle – but Big Mike himself apparently thinks he’s better at tackle. I don’t know if he can play, and if he can, whether he can make the team, but I’ll be rooting for him.

by Donnio1234 on Jun 16, 2011 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Who do I want displaced?

Rabach
BMW
Hicks
Heyer
Brown

I’d like to see Steiger moved to C, get a new RT, LG, RG and have TW step up his game this year.

@Diesel__44 on the twitter machine.

by Diesel44 on Jun 15, 2011 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

I guarantee you we can bring in the best OL players in the entire league and

it wouldn’t matter much as they STILL DON’T KNOW THE SYSTEM, it’s complicated, any player we do bring would be expected to be either an enormous upgrade on a position (i.e. Rabach at C) or know the system, if not, either they will not be that good next season or should expect to sit most of the first half of the season!

If we went your way in FA, expect us to be having this exact conversation next year!

by Toosy_13 on Jun 16, 2011 4:57 AM EDT up reply actions

Keep in mind

OL transititioning systems is way different from any other positions. Most teams run a basic man-on-man blocking scheme or zone blocking. Any zone blocking OL should understand the same terminology and would be able to come in easily. OL transition is only difficult between schemes and when positions are changed (Jammal Brown to RT for example)

by BigOLinemen on Jun 16, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions

This would get the OL count down to 8 vets. The Skins are also likely to sign two or three free agent linemen.

Oldenburg has been around for a while and is the next likely waiver. Capers, Cook, and Fulton have some advantages over any rookie OL in that they have gone through training in the Skins’ ZBS and have knowledge of the play book. These guys are also eligible for the practice squad as is Hurt. Obviously the Team would not be placing any newly acquired FA on waivers. Things will be heating up on the OL as well as other positions.

by Jefferson1935 on Jun 16, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions

I think they took a real good look at Oldenburg, and cut him (then apparently re-signed him)

I remember John Keim discussing some of his shortcomings (no overall judgement, but just some analysis of practices). From the list, I might guess they’ll eventually cut BMW (regrettably), Hurt, Oldenburg, Hicks, Heyer, maybe Fulton, plus Brown might not re-sign. And if they get a good center, and are tight on money, I wonder if they might consider cutting Rabach, even though he’s a team leader and Shanahan favorite. I think Capers and Cook will get another year, unless they bring in a lot of talent.

by Donnio1234 on Jun 16, 2011 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions

A good start would be

Rabach
Williams
Capers
Oldenburg
Cook
Heyer
Sign at least three FAs bringing it to ten including Hurt, watch the waiver wire, sign a couple of UDFAs, re-sign Brown (I know he is not great but until we have someone to replace him & a little bit of depth, we are stuck with him) but get rid of the dead weight

by ENsDad27 on Jun 15, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions

I tend to agree with your cuts when it comes to the active roster. Many OL require a few years to develop at the pro

level so I would be inclined to make a few PS players. Most know little to nothing about players at other positions when it comes to their potential.

by Jefferson1935 on Jun 16, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Not sure a case needs to be made.

We should definitely bring him in.

@Diesel__44 on the twitter machine.

by Diesel44 on Jun 15, 2011 5:49 PM EDT reply actions

If it costs nothing... let him compete for a spot!... but...

There HAS to be either a Free Agency Plan, or… One of the current O-Lineman has improved so much during the off season… that Shanny plans to move him to Center. Cook? Licht? Monty?

by 1x1an on Jun 15, 2011 8:14 PM EDT reply actions

Hurt will go to PS

the word from people who have been to the practices is that Hurt has a very soft body.. late round picks like that dont make the team. they get cut and go on the PS to re make their body. i would bring a hungry guy like this in and see what happens. we have little to lose

by shally on Jun 15, 2011 8:16 PM EDT reply actions

Hell, let's bring him in.

Let’s grab a guard while we’re at it.

by TheDeepBall on Jun 16, 2011 9:06 AM EDT reply actions

why wouldnt they take a chance on this guy are you really comfortable with lichensteiger at center

lohaus #54

by lohaus#54 on Jun 20, 2011 7:33 PM EDT reply actions

I am!

He played Center throughout College. He was drafted in the 4th by Shanny… to be a Center… I’m sure Shanny brought him to the Redskins… to play Center. I say give him the chance.

by 1x1an on Jun 26, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions