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Pawns in the Shanaplan: Offense

It seemed like a given that Mike Shanahan and Bruce Allen would draft a Quarterback in this year's draft, but seven rounds passed and no QB. So where does that leave us and what is the blue print for the rest of the offense? ShanAllen drafted five offensive players and in doing so have created some interesting position battles for August (well I hope August).

Quarterback: Who will be the Redskins QB? McNabb seems to be less of an impossibility as each day passes. Rex could be set to be the caretaker. Or Shanny may take stab with the 30 year old "Stormin Mormon" John Beck. There could of course be other names associated with the starting role in DC like Kyle Orton, Vince Young, Alex Smith, and others.

Star-divide

Runningback: This should be a really fun position battle in training camp. The Redskins currently have eight RBs in their stable in Helu, Royster, Torain, Williams, Simpson, Davis, Brown, and McNeil. Right now it looks like a given that Helu, Torain, and Williams will make the squad. Shanny actually moved up in the draft to grab Helu, who is supposed to be one of the best one cut runners in the draft. It will also be interesting to see what hometown prospect Evan Royster can bring to the table.

Wide Receiver: This is another area where the draft created a log jam and a fun position battle. If I was Anthony Armstrong or Malcolm Kelley then I'll be looking over my shoulder and training hard. Right now Armstrong, Austin, Banks, Kelley, Johnson, Price, and Williams are under contract. Santana Moss is still in limbo, but sounded as if he wanted to be and would be back via twitter on Sunday. Then you add the three new WRs into the mix. Hankerson is a big, physical WR that can step in from day one and be the number two WR. I also think Aldrick Robinson may surprise some and could challenge for some serious playing time in the slot.

If there is one Redskins' coach that should be excited after this draft then it should be Danny Smith. He got some big time returners and gunners in this draft in guys like Robinson, Paul, and Gomes.

OLine: Some of us our still screaming that only one OL was taken and it was in the 7th round. Maybe beyond the first two round the Skins just didn't have anyone highly evaluated. Or maybe Shanny got his prospect haul last year and still wants to see what he can get out of guys like Capers, Cook, Monty, and Licht. I think is a given that either Jammal Brown or Ryan Harris will be a Redskins, maybe even a guy like Matt Light. But there are still needs and maybe further depth will be created via free agency. It would have been interesting to see if Pouncey or Wisniewski would have dropped one more spot, then would they have been Redskins?

K/P: I'm going to lump the kickers and punters into the offense also. To Ken Meringolo's dislike none were drafted by us, but quality guys remain as UDFAs. Given our youth movement and QB situation it will be imperative to upgrade these positions. When FAs become available Allen better get on the horn and give guys like Kai Forbath (K, UCLA), Josh Jasper (K, LSU), Chas Henry (P, Florida), and Ryan Donahue (P, Iowa) a call and a chance to compete.

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One name I wanted to add to the QB discussion was Matt Flynn

GB got the chance to showcase him some this past season, and I’m guessing that will lead to a trade. Depending on the price, and if we can acquire some picks by making some of our own deals (Davis, McNabb, Haynesworth). I like Flynn and think he could be a good fit for us. Also it would allow us to have a ton of flexibility in next year’s draft, and not feel the need to go QB when Beckster doesn’t get the job done.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on May 3, 2011 10:00 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm not a big Flynn fan, the dude didn't even want to play football right out of college and their is a VERY small sample size.

I’m intrigued to see what happens with Brian Hoyer, not that I’m high on him or Flynn. I think if we traded for Flynn then we get robbed.

Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on May 3, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

It was a small sample size

and again it depends on the price but Flynn did look impressive in an important game on the road against New England. That to me is worth more than just the single game. There also seems to be a lot of praise for him among the coaching staff and how he as a 7th rounder beat out Brohm a 2nd rounder basically from day 1.

While it is a different regime this is the team that developed Brunell and Hasslebeck by sitting them behind a star QB (not to mention Aaron Brooks). And while Rodgers was the heir apparent I think we can all say he learned from Favre as well and he was developed by this currrent staff (McCarthy came during his 2nd year). I think Flynn has the chance to be another success story, and he could be the type of guy that works well for Shanny squared.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on May 3, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

WHat are you willing to offer?

Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!

Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!

by Omaha Sun on May 5, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm very happy with the receivers and I think both Austin and Banks are likely gone

With the new kickoff rules you better be able to contribute significantly on offense if you are a return man, and with both Paul and Robinson able to return kicks, Banks’ biggest value to the team is now in jeopardy.

Both Austin and Banks will get a shot in camp, but they will need to be better receivers than Robinson to get a job, and I’m just not buying that they can be.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on May 3, 2011 10:03 AM EDT reply actions  

Kirkpatrick ,quite frankly, is not very good.

He’s not better right now or a better prospect than Cook, Licht, Monty, etc. Its one of those names that people have become enamored with b/c of ASGs and workouts. You even mentioned drafting him in the 3rd last week, and I said he was a 6th or 7th rounder at best.

Like you said last week to me:

Your valuations of linemen carry no weight though, it’s all on who Shanahan sees as best fit. If it’s not one of the TCU guys, I still think there are other quality linemen available in the 3rd. Especially with Shanahan’s ability to spot talent.

Apparently Shanahan did not see him fit.

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by Parks Smith on May 3, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Because he didn't draft him doesn't mean he doesn't see him as a fit in the offense.

He just saw better value in the picks he made. I’m not saying he should replace Cook or Licht (who I’ve heard good things about on Redskins.com blog), but he can still be a good acquisition as a UDFA. Same with players like Herzlich and Devine.

by SSBlitz on May 3, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I know some good players can be found as UDFA, just look at Keiland and Banks.

But it seems like a lot of people are just keying in on people b/c of name recognition, like Herzlich, Devine, etc. there are others available that make more sense for this squad.

Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on May 3, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

In fairness the third largest avenue of NFL players are undrafted guys

after the 1st and 2nd round. Now some of that is guys who take a couple years (ala Armstrong) and obviously it is a quantity thing as most teams will bring in 10-15 UDFA’s which is like 300-400 players coming in as opposed to 190 some (3rd-7th rounds). And usually the UDFA guys end up as more of role players rather than starters (or if they are they probably wouldn’t be on most teams).

I agree that maybe not all the big names make sense for the Redskins squad, but then again neither do all their picks. Hurt doesn’t fit a ZBS system, and neither did Cook last season. I think the Skins can find some good value out there by bringing in some UDFA’s and some like last year, could make this team over draft picks.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on May 3, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree...

Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on May 3, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Do you take 80 players into camp, I can't remember the number...

Right now, I think we have around 75 spot taken up and under contract.

Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on May 3, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's 80 with the potential for some extras if you have some waivers (suspended players, PUP, IR, etc)

remember we also have a ton of players we can easily cut (when we are allowed to cut players) with little or no salary cap ramifications (if there is a salary cap). So we can whittle that number down real quick.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on May 3, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just don't want us to do what we did last year when we filled our camp roster up with

a ton of over the hill vets and only brought in 6 draft picks and 5 UDFAs. Yes we have some younger camp guys for now, but had we already had free agency most of these guys would have likely been cut.

I know we just drafted 12 players, but i’d still probably bring in 7-10 guys (including some ST’ers). There is just so much value gleaned from that pool every year that I don’t want to ignore it.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on May 3, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I heard we're bringing Ray Brown back in.

Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on May 3, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

You really don't think Joey Galloway deserves a shot this year?

Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on May 3, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha

No i said I don’t want us to do what we did last year…no to guys like Galloway, Johnson/Parker, Holliday/Daniels, etc. we brought in way to many guys who didn’t make sense. You can have one or two veteran guys to come in, but we had far too many.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on May 3, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

maybe not him but anthony munoz at the draft looks like a beast that can still play!!!

by les boulez bomber on May 3, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am surprised at your evaluation

Jake Kirkpatrick is a better prospect at Center than anyone on our roster IMO, he won the Rimington award this year which is given to the nations top Center (Maurkice Pouncey won it last year). He is very smart, high character & is extremely athletic (all the things you usually value in a player). TCUs O-line was very good both last year & in 09 with him calling out the assignments & anchoring the middle. He is definitely raw & would need some good coaching but with our problems at Center he could be a very good pick up.

by ENsDad27 on May 3, 2011 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I respect that, but if he's so good then why didn't he get drafted?

Just what I’ve seen from tape (mainly watched TCU-Wisconsin in depth) and from reading scouting opinions.

Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on May 3, 2011 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's a good question

& I don’t know why, but we are talking about UDFAs on this thread so that argument could apply to any of the players we are talking about. He is one of those players that I liked before the draft & was hoping we would pick up in the later rd.s if he was still around (& obviously he was & we weren’t interested) but now I hope we give him a shot as an UDFA

by ENsDad27 on May 3, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Totally understand.

I don’t know who the best fit at C is for this squad. SSBlitz was harping on Kirkpatrick as a 3rd round pick last week and then as a UDFA now, I just think there might be other guys to consider that you may not have heard of before. I feel like a lot of people are going “We should get PLAYER X” just b/c of their trendy name.

Like I said, I don’t know, and I’m sorry if anyone takes this the wrong way. I think the other UDFA post can be looked at as my wishlist.

Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on May 3, 2011 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha

totally understand being irritated by the “trendy player” desire by many fans.It’s the Since I recognize the name, he must be really good mentality

by ENsDad27 on May 3, 2011 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can live with Kirkpatrick supporters, but Bartholemew from Cuse is a joke.

Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on May 3, 2011 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

What about O'Dowd?

since we’re playing the UDFA C game.

@Diesel__44 on twitter.

by Diesel44 on May 3, 2011 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

we're still rebuilding

QB, OL, and RB, are all big question marks (and maybe WR too if Moss leaves) but everything can’t be fixed in 1 year.

by aFan4Life on May 3, 2011 10:46 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm just going to put it out there that we do not need any more UDFA or 4-7th round linemen, we have plenty.

Right now on the roster we have:
Rabach
T. Williams
M. Williams
Lichtensteiger
Cook
Montgomery
Capers
M. Williams
Artis Hicks
Fulton
Oldenburg

Heyer and Brown are FAs.

That is a lot of “developmental” or older depth guys. The chances of adding an undrafted free agent to mix and them being better or more ready to step in then anyone on this list is slim to none. At this point we need to focus on quality starting linemen. Then if guys like Rabach, Brown, Hick, etc go out to pasture replace them with some depth picks. Clearly Shanahan thinks he can develop some of the guys he has currently and maybe fill some voids via free agency.

Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on May 3, 2011 11:17 AM EDT reply actions  

IS BMW out of fat camp yet?

NFC East foes will SHRED these OLineman.

"If everyone is thinking alike, somebody isn't thinking." -George S. Patton
Hogs Haven. On Twitter..

by Kevin Ewoldt on May 3, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

I actually disagree

I think Licht and Monty stick around (though I don’t believe they are starters), Capers still intrigues me, and Fulton to an extent as well (one or the other though), but the rest of these guys outside of Trent, probably could be replaced on a roster by a UDFA guy or a player cut from another team.

Will that UDFA guy be a day one starter no, but is Cook or Oldenburg?? And really guys like Hicks and Rabach aren’t exactly ‘day one starters’ either so if you are already going to be bringing in other starters, why not find some diamonds in the rough for backups. Bringing in the UDFA’s def. can’t hurt.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on May 3, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think it could hurt... I doubt Rabach and the other vets will be cut immediately.

You’ve invested a year into some of these prospects and having an obnoxious amount of OL would take very valuable reps and playing time away from last year’s prospects.

If it was clear that Rabach, Hicks, etc. were being put out to pasture then I would be all for it. I’m also keeping in mind that we will add one or two linemen via free agency.

Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on May 3, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know

right now we are thin in terms of number of o-linemen on our roster (not in talent, but just quantity) we only have 11 either under contract or drafted, despite the fact that we need 5 starters and a total of 8-10 on the 53 man. Compared to WR were we have 10 under team control (not counting Moss, and while ESPN has Furrey we know he isn’t coming back) despite starting 2 or 3 and keeping between 5 or 6. RB we now have 8, and we will only keep a max of 4.

I’m guessing in an ideal world the Skins bring 13-15 O-linemen to camp, and since I do think Rabach and Hicks will be cut when we sign big name FA’s, I think that is 2-4 UDFA type guys we could bring in. Hopefully the Skins will sign some additional real free agent talent, but that still means we can probably bring in 2 UDFA’s.

While I get what you are saying about giving the guys we have reps, it isn’t as though any of them have shown exceptional promise or anything like that. And since we are so unsettled and really aren’t a competitive team, why not bring in as many young guys for a shot.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on May 3, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know where the person got the information, but in one HH post it was said that most zone blocking

offensive linemen come from rounds 4-7. Eric Mensik, OT, Oklahoma, hgt 6-6, wgt 296, 40 yard time*5.09 and 10 yard split *1.79 , has zone blocking experience and was name to the 1st team All Big 12 by the conference coaches. He was a converted TE and had little OL experience prior to that award. He has the kind of profile for zone at the pro level.

by Jefferson1935 on May 3, 2011 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your logic ascapes me

After posting a line up like that I would expect you to say we need to look at every UDFA & 4-7 rd. pick we can get our hands on because there’s no one on our roster (other T.W.) that is anything other than a glorified back up. I would take Xavier Fulton as a prospect over at least half of the guys on that list & I had never heard of him before yesterday. Since we didn’t draft any of the highly regarded talent in this draft, I think we should be looking extremely hard at the not so highly regarded talent.

by ENsDad27 on May 3, 2011 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Trust me I'm kind of confusing myself....

But my train of thought is there aren’t many UDFAs that are better prospects then the ones we have and bringing in new ones would retard the growth of last year’s crop. Truthfully I’m on the fence, but people keep throwing out trendy names like Kirkpatrick and I doubt they have truly evaluated them, I could be wrong. I’m just trusting in our scouts and our coaches, as well as those around the league. Its also a lot different this year with free agents and UDFA essentially being lumped together.

Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on May 3, 2011 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Those are good points
bringing in new ones would retard the growth of last year’s crop.

Its also a lot different this year with free agents and UDFA essentially being lumped together.


but UDFA make up about 20% of the league, they are relatively inexpensive & there is often some real talent that gets overlooked in the 1st seven rd.s

by ENsDad27 on May 3, 2011 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Garrard is not going anywhere, that is very clear.

Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on May 3, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

really?

I know all the fans want him out.

"If everyone is thinking alike, somebody isn't thinking." -George S. Patton
Hogs Haven. On Twitter..

by Kevin Ewoldt on May 3, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

jason campbell doesnt look so bad to me any more

by les boulez bomber on May 3, 2011 2:37 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm pretty shocked that Terrence Toliver went UD

I had him as high as being drafted maybe in the late 3rd, a lot of Mocks did as well.
I thought we’d take him before a Niles Paul, who had an up and down collegiate career while Toliver, who has the build and intangibles, was fairly more productive. I also think Dane Sanzenbacher and/or Jeff Maehl might be able to make some mild noise as a down the road slot receiver, though they also went undrafted.

by Dammit Cerrato... on May 3, 2011 11:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Cowboys fan here, I go to SMU

And as much as I oppose Aldrick Robinson going to the Skins, I’ll root for him in every game outside of Skins-Boys. You’re not only getting blazing speed, but also a guy who will play on every special teams squad without hesitation, and a very intelligent player.

According to our school’s sports fansite, Mike Shanahan and SMU head coach June Jones had a phone conversation a couple weeks before the draft discussing Al as a potential draft target, and since they used to coach against each other, Shanahan trusted Jones’ insight.

Again, I HATE that he went to the Redskins, but I could see him having success in the slot for yall. Just my two cents.

by Joon on May 4, 2011 2:07 AM EDT reply actions  

Will wonders never cease.....

As much as I hate the cowboys, I appreciate the insight, we are pretty excited about this draft in general. An intelligent, concise, well written post from a cowboys fan, you, my friend are a very rare breed.

by MagicHat on May 4, 2011 6:33 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

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