Why I Hope the Redskins Keep All Their Picks Today:
by Steve Shoup on Apr 30, 2011 11:04 AM EDT
in Redskins 2011 Draft
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PrintI know there is a concern by some about the Redskins draft so far and the multiple times they have traded back, but I want to go on record and say Bravo Shanahan and Allen, I think already it is a job well done.
Given all the hype surrounding the quarterbacks and Coach Shanahan's track record, when I saw Blaine Gabbert on the board at our 10th overall selection I thought the temptation would be too much for the Skins to pass up. Instead they wisely moved back and picked up that mid-2nd rounder (which they then of course proceeded to trade 15 times). Essentially the Redskins traded Gabbert for Ryan Kerrigan, Leonard Hankerson, a 4th, 2 5th's, and a 7th round pick.
Kerrigan and Hankerson alone could make this a major win, even if Gabbert turns out to be a good player in 2-4 years. Instead of drafting a quarterback that really shouldn't be playing for a year plus, we found two instant starters at need positions and can now add a couple more players who are significant contributors or even starters.
I know many people look at 5th-7th round picks as wasted value, and given the Redskins track record for those picks I understand the sentiment. But if you look at the top teams in the league (Pats, Packers, Steelers etc.), they consistently find big time value in those rounds. What is even more impressive is those late round/undrafted guys have to make stacked rosters, yet time and again they do. Also, I'd contend that these late round picks are more important this year than most, because as it stands now undrafted free agency won't begin until who knows when. This is why I'd like to see us keep all our picks today. Basically we can use our extra selections as a start to undrafted free agency.
As for whether or not we will find value, I decided to look at the previous 3 draft classes and highlight players taken in the 5th round on, plus undrafted free agents and show the value of these selections if chosen correctly. Not all of these guys are starters, but I'd say 3rd and 4th receivers, nickel and dime backs, backup running backs etc. are all important values. Also this list is far from complete, but just a snap shot of some talent available.
2008:
5th: Brandon Carr, KC: good quality starting corner
5th: Ryan Torain, Den.: right now our feature back
5th: Zach Bowman, CHI: Solid nickel back, could be a starter this year
5th Orlando Scandrick, DAL: Decent Nickel back
5th Tim Hightower, ARI: Good backup RB, outplayed former 1st rounder Wells last season
5th: Dennis Dixon, PIT: has shown flashes as a backup QB
5th Carl Nicks, NO: Has become one of the best Guards in the NFL
5th Trevor Scott, OAK: quality situational pass rusher
5th Geno Hayes, TB: decent starting weak-side LB
6th John Sullivan, MInn: good starting center
6th Ahtyba Rubin, Cle: Starting NT for the Browns, played more than S. Rogers last year
6th Pierre Garcon, INDY: starting WR
7th Matt Flynn, GB: bright young QB will become a trade chip
7th Steve Johnson, Buff: Very talented young WR
7th Peyton Hillis, Den: one of the best young power backs in the league
best of the rest: Josh Morgan, Mike Hart, Justin Forsett
UDFA's: WR Danny Amendola, WR Devon Bess, RB Danny Woodhead, RB B. Green-Ellis, LB Gary Guyton, QB, Claeb Hanie, LB Erin Henderson, RB Mike Tolbert, K Dan Carpenter, K Garrett Hartley
2009:
5th: Johnny Knox, CHI: Already a Pro Bowl receiver
5th Jasper Brinkley, MINN: Very good backup LB, has started a lot due to injuries and held his own
5th Thomas Morestead, NO: Good young punter for the Saints
6th Matt Slauson, NYJ: Starting guard, played solid last year
6th Jason McCourty, TENN: quality nickel back
6th Bernard Scott, CINN: good change of pace back
6th Captain Munnerlyn, Car: Good nickel corner and ST player
7th Brad Jones, GB: Good situational pass rusher as a rookie, was a top backup last year before going on IR
7th Jamarca Sanford, MINN: Good backup safety, ST player
7th Julian Edleman, NE: Good 4th WR, ST guy
7th Sammie Stroughter, TB: Good 4th WR, KR guy
7th Ricky-Jean Francois, SF: Good backup NT to Franklin, team is really high on him
7th Rashard Jennings, JAC: Good backup/power back for the Jags
7th: Ryan Succop, KC: Good kicker for the Chiefs
UDFA's: RB Arian Foster, OL Ramon Foster, DL Anontio Dixon, CB Jacob Lacey, WR Kevin Ogletree
2010:
5th Kam Chancellor, SEA: Already looking like a starting safety for the the Seahawks
5th Kendrick Lewis, KC: Emerging starting safety
5th Nolan Carroll, MIA: backup corner, but quality return man and ST guy (got the Jets coach fired)
5th Cam Thomas, SD: quality backup NT, could take the starting role this year
5th Zoltan Mesko, NE: Good rookie punter
5th DE Austen Lane, JAC: could be the starting RE for Jac. this year
6th Greg Hardy, CAR: Good situational pass rusher, could replace Charles Johnson
6th Arthur Moats, Buff: Will likely be one of the starting OLB's this year, played well down the stretch
6th Nate Bynam, SF: Good #2/blocking TE for 49ers
6th James Starks, GB: Huge for the Packers in the postseason, should be at least a #2 back going forward
6th Anontio Brown, Pitt: Already number 4 receiver, made huge catch in Raven game to advance Pitt. in playoffs
6th David Gettis, Car: outperformed in many regards 2 higher drafted rookie WR's, should be at least a 3 next year
6th Ted Larsen, NE: cut by the Pats, he signed with Tampa and started most of the year
7th Cody Grimm, TB: promising rookie year cut short by injury (Russ's son)
7th Mark Marini, TEN: excellent return man, went to the Pro Bowl as a returner
(A ton of guys in this draft are poised to take bigger roles in 2011, and I mean guys who showed a lot more than our guys like Austin, Cook, Capers etc.)
UDFA's: WR Seyi Ajirotutu, WR Brandon Banks, RB Kieland Williams, TE Logan Paulsen, WR Blair White, WR Danario Alexander, WR David Nelson, WR Donald Jones, LB Fank Zombo, CB Sam Shields, CB Bryan McCann, LB Dane Fletcher, RB LeGarrett Blount, RB Chris Ivory, G Derek Hardman
Steve Shoup has been a Redskins fan his entire life and dreams of the day they get back to the glory days of his youth. In addition to his regular piece on Hogs Haven, you can find his daily writings at Fanspeak.com. Check out my NFL Draft LIVE Chat, covering every pick during the entire draft! Hope to see you there!
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Good job, my man
Good job, I hope everyone heeds your post. Some people just don’t realize that some of the best players in ’Skins history were late round and unstaffed guys. B. Match, Rypien, London Fletcher, Jacoby, DEXTER!!!
Wake up people, THIS is how you build a TEAM. Teams are built from the ground. You CAN’T have 53 superstars. You need role players.
thanks man
I agree. Look at the packers last year, where would they be without Starks, Shields, Zombo, Quarless, Swain etc. (and those are just from the last 3 years)
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Apr 30, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Steveo
For the last 3 months I’ve been agruing with you about last years late round picks(Riley, Cook and Capers), and the possibility that these players could contribute this year. You were very adament the entire time about how those lower round picks were all projects, and how you had no faith in them, especially the linemen. You preached on how we needed 2 early picks on the O-Line.
Now you defending the very thing you stood against for the last 3 months; taking developmental palyers at positions of need.
So I ask, what is going to make this years 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th round selections so much better than last years in your eyes. Obviously this question is premature until we actually see who we select in hese final rounds, but still the general question remains.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
No I said those were bad picks
not b/c they were lower round, but b/c they were bad players. If you take a look at last years 4th (which I didn’t go into) 5th, 6th, 7th and UDFA guys there is a ton of late round value (plenty of guys I didn’t mention) and those guys were making teams like the Steelers, Patriots, Packers, Chargers, etc. our guys couldn’t crack our roster. Only Riley was never cut and he was inactive more than he was active and that wasn’t a Jarmon situation where he was screwed with in the offseason. Those are bad selections and as you’ll notice I didn’t mention them. While I’ve said Riley might get a shot that is out of necessity rather than obvious skill. Capers still intrigues me but I see nothing from Cook/Austin.
If we actually scout these guys and find some gems (and no I don’t think all will workout) instead of just guessing at players which i assume the strategy was last year we can find some real contributors.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Apr 30, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
haha
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
haha no tiller won't win that easy
I just think there was a distinct difference between our picks and you know good teams picks last year. But already we have seen an improvement, so I have some faith!
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Apr 30, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
These late round picks are more valuable than any we've had in years
And that’s due to better talent evaluation than we’ve had in the past. Instead of Vinnie, you have a consummate professional evaluating talent. That should make everyone feel a lot better.
He went undrafted in 2005, but it wasn't until i think 2009 he even signed with an NFL team
he was in the arena league
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Apr 30, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
yes...in terms of years...
but I consider him part of our UDFA class last year…that was my point…I should have been clearer…
Hope
I feel kind of good about our situation. Now we need some offensive lineman, like yesterday, regardless of who our qb will be.
yeah i'm hoping a OL pick in the 4th and 5th at least
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Apr 30, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Call me crazy, but even if only a few of these players pan out
I’ll call this draft a success. Why? Because it’s a step in the right direction. Shanahan showed us that he knows how to draft, and that really comforts me. I’m going to spin the famous phrase and say: quantity, not quality. And hopefully, it’s a beautiful combination of both.
"It's like yoga, except I still get to kill something." - Ron Swanson
Agreed
Shanny looks completely different this year in the draft process. He is letting the draft come to him
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Apr 30, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Younger team means lower cost and better cap management
Especially when it comes time to tender those 4th year guys (depending on the new CBA of course).
Alec: Chris, did you really buy a $1400 toilet?
Chris: Yeah, it's great. It's Japanese and has those little warm water jets that clean the undercarriage.
Eric: Chris, it's a toilet, you shit in it.
GREAT POINT
I have been saying this for years,i and forgot to mention it up top. Using draft picks to fill out the roster rather than free agency is how you stay under the cap.
exactly
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Apr 30, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
The ONLY reason I was upset with our trading back out've the 2nd rd?
Was because I wanted Hankerson! I thought him a 2nd rd talent as did all draft analysts and mockers. We need contributors at the skill positions as badly as we need those front 7/Oline needs addressed and I thought Hankseron would fit perfectly.
The fact that he fell to us anyways and we’ve accumulated the picks that we have, well, the war room at Redskins Park gets a solid B+ for their efforts so far. We might see the big name future studs come off the board today, and while there might be a real diamond in the rough like there always is, these are your depth guys (if they make the squad of course) these are going to be the guys that we haven’t had on roster in recent memory. The depth in case your starter goes down, you plug this guy in and don’t miss a beat.
In recent years, injuries have hurt us more than some, because when you have a Trent Williams go down, we’ve had to plug in a Stephon Heyer for instance. I’m very much so looking forward to the moves we make today, and I wouldn’t mind a splash in the 4th with a Tyrod Taylor? Am I being a fan boy?? Not a Hokie, but Taylor in the middle rounds I think could be a real steal as Hankerson was a steal in the 3rd.
by Dammit Cerrato... on Apr 30, 2011 12:04 PM EDT reply actions
The first trade was a very good - and lucky - move
I suspect that Shanahan was blindsided when all the QBs he wanted were taken by #41. The late round picks could get us a couple of winners. I notice that you listed 14 or 15 winners for each year. That would be about 15% of the picks, making them 6-1 shots. Everyone is happy to have Kerrigan and Hankerson, so the draft is not a bust. But so far it has not upgraded QB, O-line or NT, with most of the top guys in the first two categories gone. It’s too early to grade the overall Skins draft, but I’m at about a “C” right now because of what it didn’t do.
yeah they might have given up too much
I would have thought they could just package 2 5’s for a 4 then we could have had two fours
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Apr 30, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
What?!?!
A Safety?! WTF? We need OL help desperately and we go with a Safety with our 1st 5th round pick.
I don’t get it.
seriously he can prob. play corner, but that was a 7th round guy...and not even a great one
just watched Jason Pinkston go off the board…would have been nice to have some o-linemen
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
wow another rb and wr
im starting to think they didnt trade back to build a team they are trading back because they dont know who to pick.. last years picks were bad too. i just hot our first few picks are good:(
The Royster pick was just Retarded
He’s not a good RB at all. We could have taken some developmental linemen of a guy like Williams at NT.
I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!
No..undrafted.
Not surprised. He finished his career with two more sacks than you and me.
@Diesel__44 on twitter.
Which would you rather:
Go into the season with Willie Parker, Larry Johnson, Clinton Portis, Keiland Williams and Ryan Torrain,
Or,
Go into the season with Torrain, Keiland Williams, Roy Helu Jr, Evan Royster and a free agent to be named later?
fyi -
this isn’t a “gotcha” post or anything. i’m honestly curious what you’d prefer. I really like the fact that our RB corps just went from one of the oldest (maybe THE oldest) to one of the youngest. Fresh legs and speed over injuries and experience. Isn’t this what we want right now?
I guess they will address the O-Line in FA (whenever that is)?
by Moonage Daydream on Apr 30, 2011 5:00 PM EDT reply actions
I guess the O-Line is better than we thought ...
Not one offensive lineman in the first SIX rounds?! Are you kidding me or what?!! Is the coach satisfied with the players we have now?!! I’m glad we didn’t draft a QB this season, because if you ask Donovan, I’m sure he’ll tell you he got CRUSHED more than once!
Honestly, I don’t like second guessing the staff of my favorite team, but I’m left sitting here with a “Duhhhh” look on my face!
One O-lineman in the entire draft we take, and he’s slow, and at best, a back-up! A back-up to whom?!! Except for LT, they’re all back-ups, or on the downside of their careers!
I hope we can find some help in FA, if and when that happens! I just don’t get the strategy … Gain more picks, but lessen the quality of those picks?!
Rick "the Rebel" Hall
nice draft!
I haven’t visited this board much because it has
had virus problems. But this is such an un-
Shanahan-like draft, which means it is good!
I don’t think Shanahan has ever traded down
before in the first round; he would only trade up,
kept thinking he was one player from another
ring that kept eluding him. Lots of defensive
needs filled early, something he wouldn’t
have done before either. He is still keeping to
his ideology of selecting interior Olinemen late
in the draft and developing them for a few years.
I wish he had taken a G or C in the 3rd/4th round,
but that’s not the strength of this draft anyway.
And no QB. I’m OK with that, but I wonder if we’ll
be trading for another veteran QB now. How
about Sage Rosenthal who used to play for
Houston? He used to play like an all-pro for
3 quarters and had a 4-turnover meltdown in
the 4th. Solution — don’t ever let him take a snap
in the last frame. I’m serious, man.
by formerbroncosfan on May 1, 2011 1:01 AM EDT reply actions
Virus problems?
Never had a single warning. Methinks you either have other issues or an overly protective antivirus running :(
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