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A Solid Case Why The Redskins Are Targeting Ryan Mallett

Editor Update: A fine post possibly ruined by this breaking news on Mallett.

This is not Mike Shanahan's offense...it is Kyle's. Why do people talk about the type of QB Mike Shanahan likes (which most get it misconstrued), when Kyle's QB is on the contrary.The difference in both systems is that Mike is run first and Kyle is pass first.

Mike Shanahan
He runs first to set up play action and bootleg. His basic package is with 2 WR, 1 TE,  1 HB, and a FB. To succeed in this system, Mike NEEDs a QB that can throw on the run. That is why the trade for McNabb made perfect sense. Cutler thrived in it.

Kyle Shanahan
Shotgun heavy with emphasis on stretching the field. Basic package: 3 WR, 1 TW,  and 1 HB. To succeed in this system, Kyle Shanahan NEEDs a Qb with pocket presence to allow the play to develop. Matt Schaub thrived in it.

McNabb, prior to the trade, fit the bill for both Shanahans. He can pass on the run with pocket presence. Late in the season, it was clear that Rex rossman ran the offense more smoothly then McNabb. Not because he can throw off the run, but because of pocket presence. Looking into this years draft, the only QB that makes sense for Kyle's system is Ryan Mallet. Jake Locker is what I stated about McNabb, but without pocket presence. Accuracy is a huge factor to be a pocket passer in Kyle's system. How many deep balls were under or over thrown by McNabb? And for that matter, even intermediate routes? 

Star-divide


Don't be fooled by all the smoke and mirrors. We were sure to receive Russell Okung last year (Jake Locker this year) for a system he did not fit in. Mallet is this years Trent Williams.

 

The Redskins WILL DO WHATEVER it takes to draft him.

Editor update: This YouTube highlight shows Mallett running and gunning out of the pocket quite a bit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdagmnnKUx0

Comment 235 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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You sit here and talk about pocket presence

But Mallett is just as bad as Locker. Mallett has cement feet in the pocket. He can’t move around in it at all. He takes his drop and he’s a sitting duck. He is the best passer yes, but he does not fit this offense, whether it is Mike’s or Kyle’s, because of this. He will never have pocket mobility because he is soo big. He’d be fine if we had an o-line.

I’m believing more of the Andy Dalton, Christian Ponder stuff now.

by BigOLinemen on Apr 20, 2011 9:38 AM EDT reply actions  

are you serious?

Have you watched locker and mallet play more then one game? or are you going by the so called “experts”. they have 2 completey different style of play. Locker is in the big ben/ drew breeze school (roll out and make a play). Mallet is in the peyton/ rivers, brady school ( slide in the pocket and make a read)

Mallet does not have cement feet. he is very fluid in the pocket. by far the best in the pocket this year. Look at his sack total.

For those who like locker over mallet. think about this, they both had the same comparible level of talent on offense. One won games, the other barely made it to a bowl and started 3-6. One played in the hardest conference and the other played in a pass friendly conference.

Andy dalton will not be a good qb in the league. he is in the floor general, dont loose the game school. much like flacco. neither one will win games for you, but they wont loose them either. Ponder is a better locker to me, but i dont see him fitting kyles offense.

by back_to_the_future on Apr 20, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well

First off, I am, by no means, a Locker fan (I am FAR from a Locker fan), but Locker’s talent wasn’t half of what Mallett had on Arkansas’ offense. Locker was the offense, Mallett was just the head of his offense.

Anyways, I know the styles of Locker and Mallett, but you missed my point. Locker has no pocket presence because he takes off running and looks to make plays on the move. My point about Mallett though is that he doesn’t have pocket mobility, which is the real key. Maybe he can slide around well, but I don’t see it. With Manning and Brady, you see guys who are fluid in the pocket, and can make as much time as the running guys.

I dunno, I’ll give him more props after watching Kevin’s video below. He does well on PA bootlegs and slides, I just never see him really avoid the pass rush in the pocket, step up, step back, slide, etc., and that’s why I’m hesitant. With this OL, he seems vulnerable to the rush too much; however, the guy is definitely a killer passer.

by BigOLinemen on Apr 20, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

from what i gather

You just repeated everything i stated as a counter arguement.

1. “Mallet does not have cement feet. he is very fluid in the pocket.” me
       “he doesn’t have pocket mobility, which is the real key. Maybe he can slide around well” you……..sliding around well is pocket presence

2. "Locker is in the big ben/ drew breeze school (roll out and make a play). " me
     “Locker has no pocket presence because he takes off running and looks to make plays on the move” you

if mallet talent was better, name one other starter? his oline was average at best in a conference where d-lines dominate. sounds like us in the NFC East. Locker played in the Pac 10 where you have no emphasis on coverage, Qb’s put up big numbers, and offensive minded players stats get inflated due to the lack of defense.

by back_to_the_future on Apr 20, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

We are having a miscommunication here

Mallett has shown me no pocket mobility, no sliding ability, none of that. I said “maybe” because maybe he just didn’t have to use it at Arkansas, but from what I’ve gathered from watching him, he has no ability to move in the pocket.

The Locker point was just me mentioning why both Locker and Mallett both lack pocket presence despite varying skill sets and styles.

And DJ Williams was one of Mallett’s teammates, one of the top TEs in the draft this year. I don’t watch much college football outside of my local schools, but I never really thought his o-line was average, cause he would have been sacked a lot more then he did.

by BigOLinemen on Apr 20, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did you see the youtube highlights?

To say he has “no ability” would be incorrect.

"You're not going to remember Albert Haynesworth as a bust" - Haynesworth 2/28/2009
Hogs Haven. On Twitter..

by Kevin Ewoldt on Apr 20, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I did

I mean, he can move on play action and normal plays, but it was mostly by design (a.k.a. bootlegs, slides, etc.,). I saw him step up once against Florida. He’s not completely immobile, but I am still hesitant on his mobility.

But I do prefer Mallett over half of the QBs in the draft, baggage, immobility, and all, for his accuracy and arm.

by BigOLinemen on Apr 20, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

i see where the disconnect was

mallet makes quick reads and gets the ball out of their. so his sack number should not be high.

but i will agree to disagree

by back_to_the_future on Apr 20, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Backward, apparently you haven't read what Sean Payton had to say in comparing Drew Brees and Mallett.

“There is a difference between mobility and agility,” Saints coach Sean Payton told me. “Drew Brees has tremendous agility. He may not run or look for running opportunities, but he has good foot quickness.”

Mallett, at 6-7, 253 pounds, doesn’t move much like Brees. This is what one scout told me about Mallett’s mobility. “You don’t see him run past the line ever. He does not break down and make plays. He is a statue.”

And another: “He’s going to struggle when he’s pressured. He’s not a very good athlete and his footwork is so poor. When he got off his mark, he wasn’t very good.” http://www.ramsrule.com/herd/read.php?5,131076,131076

The whole issue is beating a dead horse.

by Jefferson1935 on Apr 20, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is funny
For those who like locker over mallet. think about this, they both had the same comparible level of talent on offense. One won games, the other barely made it to a bowl and started 3-6. One played in the hardest conference and the other played in a pass friendly conference.

You couldn’t be more wrong about this. Mallett’s Razorbacks had very good talent, including a good O-Line, solid RB’s, and a good WR corps, including the Mackey Award winner at TE. Locker’s Huskies were no where near this level of talent; especially on the O-Line.

Are you not entertained?

by Tiller56 on Apr 20, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

I don't think they had similar talent

but I do think the point that both team’s played above their talent level is valid. If you credit Locker for Making the Huskies bowl eligible, then you have to give Mallet similar credit. It is easily forgotten, but Locker did have a very good RB in his backfield, maybe his line was below average/average, but his running game was pretty good.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 20, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thats all he had was a good RB

His line and WR’s sucked. And actually, you could make the case that he was his teams best RB.

Are you not entertained?

by Tiller56 on Apr 20, 2011 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not entirely

Chris Polk, had a 1,400+ yard season as a R.S. sophomore with a 5.4 ypc
his backup Jesse Callier had 433 yards with a 5.6 ypc.

Also, WR Jermaine Kearse is pretty decent and a big play guy. Now he isn’t an A.J. Green or Julio Jones, but he has some game. My guess is next year he is between a 4th and a 6th round pick.

I agree the line was pretty bad, but you can’t make the case he didn’t have any skill position talent.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 20, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I descent RB and a average at best WR

does not make for good skill guys. Anyways, this started by comparing the talent Mallett had vs the talent Locker had, and I don’t think there is a question about that.

Are you not entertained?

by Tiller56 on Apr 20, 2011 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

well two good backs, but yes one that will be a top 3 round pick (Polk)

and an average NFL receiver, but a very good college receiver. Look at the the talent Dalton, Kaepernick and even Newton have around them on offense. How many NFL’ers are among their skill players??

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 20, 2011 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Newton had shitty WR's, but a good line and good FB and RB's

I honestly don’t know much about TCU’s skill guys, but I know they had a good line. Kap ran that BS pistol, so I don’t put too much into any of his skill guys in that offense.

Are you not entertained?

by Tiller56 on Apr 20, 2011 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

My point is we make Locker seem like he is Oliver Twist begging for help

but none of these guys were on ‘great offensive teams’. Even Christian Ponder didn’t have NFL talent around him. Now some of these teams def. had better all-around college talent, and maybe even better ‘NFL’ talent around him than Locker, but we aren’t talking Matt Lienart at USC or Greg McLeroy at Alabama, where every single guy is going to get drafted into the NFL.

Locker was on a weaker team, but lets not make it that he was surrounded by the cast of Necessary Roughness.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 20, 2011 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now this one's funny
Even Christian Ponder didn’t have NFL talent around him.

Are you not entertained?

by Tiller56 on Apr 21, 2011 6:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

what NFL'ers outside of Hudson are on that FSU team

either now or in the future??

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 21, 2011 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Don't bother.

He thinks just because it’s FSU, they had NFL-caliber players all over the team the last ten years.

by tuckwell on Apr 21, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Steveo

My point is that Locker did more with less compared to the other top QB in this draft. I don’t think this is even debatable.

Are you not entertained?

by Tiller56 on Apr 21, 2011 6:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

no he didnt

mallet had the best TE, ave run game, and less then ok wrs….in the SEC!!!!!!!!!! where smashmouth football is

locker had a backfield, ave wrs and TE……in the PAC 10!!!!!where pass happy offense wins

if you compare their situation on offense against the type of defense they played against, then mallet clearly is the better QB. He won in the SEC where everybody had a pass rush defense and top CB’s in the nation.

by back_to_the_future on Apr 21, 2011 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

What????

Thats not even what were arguing. I’m talking about one guy doing more with less, and that clearly was Jake Locker. His WR’s stunk. His line stunk. He had a descent RB, thats it. Mallett had more tools to work with. Good WR’s, damn good line, and the best TE in the country. RB’s weren’t too shabby either.

I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!

by Tiller56 on Apr 21, 2011 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

i disagree

1. mallet played in the hardest conference
2. Locker had a damn near 1500 yard back. not to shabby?
3. mallet oline was not good in the SEC….they would have been in the Pac 10. lol
4. mallet wr’s had crazy dropped balls. locker was/is inaccurate as hell.

by back_to_the_future on Apr 22, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

I grant you that is possible

all i’m saying that his ‘more with less’ is like saying the guy with the $98 budget did more with less than the guy with the $110 budget. Locker might have been on the worst offense, but it’s not a night and day difference.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 21, 2011 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

It was pretty significant

Anyone who watches college football will agree with me on this one.

I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!

by Tiller56 on Apr 21, 2011 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's totally night & day
One played in the hardest conference and the other played in a pass friendly conference.

is the most damning

by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Apr 22, 2011 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting post

Many on HH talk casually about a QB fitting our system, without specifying just what the heck our system is. The question is, whose system is it? Presumably, Mike and Kyle would be able to adapt their system to whoever they had at QB. One speculation might be that if you assumed that a vet would start, and the rookie would sit and learn for awhile, you’d prefer that the rookie would be right for the system being run (wouldn’t want to change systems in mid season). So if Grossman was the starter, you’d want somebody that fit Kyle’s system, like Ponder, Mallett or Kaepernick, whereas if D-Mac was the caretaker, Locker would be able to move in nicely. Just another factor to consider in the draft.

by Donnio1234 on Apr 20, 2011 10:29 AM EDT reply actions  

it was clear to me that we ran kyles system

for all te talk about how terrible dmac was, had he played the last 3 games, he would have broken redksins single season passing yards. the problem was not that he didnt put up numbers, the porblem was that the offense was not fluid under mcnabb. hence all the 3 and outs

by back_to_the_future on Apr 20, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

adding to this comment...

the core issue with McNabb is his read progression (as I see it). Kyle wants it to be deep first, then middle, then short. But McNabb was/is more comfortable with short, middle, then long. So it was not very fluid as you said. Rex on the other hand clearly looks long first.

by liger99 on Apr 20, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

by long...

you mean as far as he can throw right…..30 yards tops haha

by ptowny on Apr 21, 2011 6:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Rex Grossman

was the QB who managed to hit Anthony Armstrong in stride this season. Donovan couldn’t do that in any of his 13 games.

by TheDeepBall on Apr 21, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah I don't think Mallet really fits at all.

Mallet is a rock back there and doesn’t do well when he has to move or deal with a pass rush. A better pocket quarterback (and just in general) would be Ponder. He can move outside the pocket, but he is also really good throwing inside the pocket as well. He has the foot speed to buy time and avoid the rush.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 20, 2011 10:37 AM EDT reply actions  

So what you're saying is that Ryan Mallett is perfect for the patriots

And the Redskins need somebody like Fran Tarkenton? I just hope that whoever we end up with this year or next year to give us a good 6+ seasons-I don’t think that we have had that since Joe Theismann

The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button

by Skins Fan '77 on Apr 20, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'd kill for a Tarkenton-type QB.

Fran is my all-time favorite QB. Different time and different game, but if we could get a guy with that kind of guts and glory, we’d be set.

by tuckwell on Apr 20, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

somewhat... Mallet needs to be in a situation where he has an iron curtain in front of him

and where there is a lot of air it out type throws. Maybe San Diego would be a better fit, as they throw the deep ball a lot, and do a lot of shotgun.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 20, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

sounds like........

the texans under kyle shanahan.

by back_to_the_future on Apr 20, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

not entirely

Chargers line is slightly better, they also had better weapons (if Floyd leaves that could change). I also don’t really buy the comparison between Mallet and Schaub. Mallet has the stronger arm, but Schaub I think is a headier quarterback, with better accuracy. Either way Mallet has no business being an option for the Skins.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 20, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

chargers had better options then who?

the texans?

4/20 was good to you….lol

andre johnson? arian foster? all better then the option they had at SD

by back_to_the_future on Apr 21, 2011 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm talking about when Shanny was OC for the Texans. I don't think we can compare an offense that he wasn't a part of

And yes collectively I take Jackson, Floyd, Gates, and Sproles (he caught 45 passes in 2009), over Johnson, Daniels, Jones Walter and Slaton

I’m only looking at it from a passing point of view as well.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 21, 2011 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ryan Mallett is out of the pocket in the majority of these highlight throws

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdagmnnKUx0

I’m starting to buy this post….nice job. Will front page shortly.

"You're not going to remember Albert Haynesworth as a bust" - Haynesworth 2/28/2009
Hogs Haven. On Twitter..

by Kevin Ewoldt on Apr 20, 2011 11:31 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Mallett - Very impressive - not immobile

He has to want to come here though, or he could clash with Shanahan. Ryan strikes me as wild, hard headed, impulsive. He and Shanahan could be a real riot.

by Donnio1234 on Apr 20, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I am not against Mallet

But…. I think if the plan is to take Mallet, I’d be afraid it also includes drafting a WR in round 1, to help mallet stretch the field.

That I am NOT ok with. If we trade back, get a C/G somewhere, get an NT in the 3rd/4th, and Mallet in the 2nd, I would be fine.

by tman5 on Apr 20, 2011 12:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Just puts a huge burden on the team to resign Santana.

He might even be worth franchising (assuming whatever new CBA gets put in has the option) for a year. I’m not completely against Mallett, and in fact there are some things about his game that make me pretty excited to picture him in Burgundy and Yellow. I’m just not sure that long-term, he’s the right fit. Hell of a talent though.

by tuckwell on Apr 20, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

no

Mallet is a top 10 talent. he will not be here in the 2nd. if you watched any games on mallet, he is pinpoint accurate with a canon. he basiclly was tom brady for his team. his teamates dropped so many passes that were dead on it was ridiculous

by back_to_the_future on Apr 20, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

he won't make it to the 2nd round

i totally agree. Our slot should be a toss-up between Tyson Smith & Ryan Mallett, no questions asked.

by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Apr 22, 2011 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

In fact...

I don’t care if we take a QB, or which QB we take.

There are two many ways to approach the QB question, and I trust the Shannys.

If we get a C/G and a NT in the first 3-4 rounds, another Olineman later, a RB or a WR somewhere, then I am happy.

by tman5 on Apr 20, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Issues with Mallet

Sorry, but no matter what physical tools this kid has, Ryan Mallet is a disaster waiting to happen.

Just picked up on this story from National Football Post that Mallet missed meetings on April 8 with the Carolina Panthers after staying out too late, claiming he was sick:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Source-Mallett-skips-out-on-meeting-with-Panthers.html

Let’s be real here, this kid is done with College and College Football. His only responsibility is showing off his football skills and looking like a good little soldier to the NFL community for the few weeks heading up to the draft, and he can’t even do it.

I think it’s plainly obvious that he will not be a leader or an impact player in the NFL.

by StephanHart on Apr 20, 2011 12:37 PM EDT reply actions  

are you kidding me

you dont think that-that could have been a ploy for him? who wants to play for carolina? stuff like that i will take for a grain of salt. Randy moss dropped for fighting, stealing, etc. who cares if he partoes. Im shocked…we had riggo drunk during games and you complaining about a college student with a hangover. he is what, 20-21 and knows he is about to make millions.

by back_to_the_future on Apr 20, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Did you see the update I just added at the top of the article?

"You're not going to remember Albert Haynesworth as a bust" - Haynesworth 2/28/2009
Hogs Haven. On Twitter..

by Kevin Ewoldt on Apr 20, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

not the youtube.

"You're not going to remember Albert Haynesworth as a bust" - Haynesworth 2/28/2009
Hogs Haven. On Twitter..

by Kevin Ewoldt on Apr 20, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

For what it's worth.

The article doesn’t seem to be very credible. No sources or quotes? Give me a break. He could have canceled for a number of reasons.

by TheDeepBall on Apr 20, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

No kidding.

“Sources say …” is journalist-ese for “Some drunk dude called and said he saw Mallett with Elvis and Jimmy Hoffa snorting cocaine off Hally Berry’s ass at 3am, but I can’t say all that, so I’ll take the part I like and just label it ‘sources’ so nobody will question me.”

by tuckwell on Apr 20, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

That sounds like fun.....

Hell, I would totally draft that guy.

by MagicHat on Apr 20, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

There is an article up on NFL.com quoting his agent

says he was truely sick. Went out to dinner with Julio Jones, and was in his hotel by 10pm.

Are you not entertained?

by Tiller56 on Apr 20, 2011 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

but what is the agent going to say?

“I bought the first round?”

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 20, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

He said that id he was truely out

in the age of camera phones, and Mallett being a 6’ 6" 250lb man, wouldn’t someone have a pic of him? Makes complete sense to me.

Are you not entertained?

by Tiller56 on Apr 20, 2011 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

What I actually like about that whole evening

is that Mallett was getting to spend time with his future WR

Are you not entertained?

by Tiller56 on Apr 20, 2011 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha i see what you did there...

I mean i get what you are saying, but you have some pretty reputable reporters on this, and it is apparent that Carolina wasn’t happy with the excuse/reason.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 20, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Carolina has no business looking at a QB

They drafted two last year. It’s only fair to give them(Clausen) a chance to develop. IMO, the Carolina QB rumors are all smoke and mirrors. They are going to go D-Line. Dareus or Fairley.

Are you not entertained?

by Tiller56 on Apr 20, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

If they are smart they are going Dareus

but it really doesn’t matter how serious they are. It is a completely new regime so if you knock their socks off and prove you are an elite QB than year there is a chance you get taken.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 20, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just doesn't make sense

Their trying to get a team to seriously think their going QB, so someone will offer then a shit load of picks to move to #1. My bet is they take Dareus.

I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!

by Tiller56 on Apr 23, 2011 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

haha if you don't want to play for the Panthers and their potentially good offensive line with Otah returning

(not to mention Kalil and Gross), good running game (even sans Williams) and Steve Smith, why would he want to play for the Skins?? It’s simple you don’t get hungover to the point of not being able to workout the next day. Riggo might have been drunk, but as you said that didn’t stop him from taking the field. And it isn’t as if this is the first time we have heard a drinking/drug problem.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 20, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can't even answer Stephan's response it's so rife with gossip-&-innuendo-turned fact
I think it’s plainly obvious that he will not be a leader or an impact player in the NFL.

Dude, you can’t even make a basic theory of argument. At least make a rudimentary attempt like the legitimate critiques of Mallett employ – some have articulated an opinion (refuted by video evidence above around KevinE’s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdagmnnKUx0 earlier post)

Let’s be real here, this kid is done with College and College Football. His only responsibility is showing off his football skills and looking like a good little soldier to the NFL community for the few weeks heading up to the draft, and he can’t even do it.

No let’s be real here, saying “let’s be real” is worth as much as saying “Honestly, dot…dot…dot…” No really, let’s be real here and stop trying to transform your inferences based on gossip into fact for the purpose of argument. We might as well start talking about how since a substantial number of college-turned-pro athletes smoke grass, we should treat them all like they’re alcoholics and strictly pick people from BYU. It’s just obnoxious to say such snide things based on argumentative fiction & ether, guy

by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Apr 22, 2011 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Be careful how much stock you put into one youtube vid...

One film of highlights doesn’t exactly “refute” all citicism about Mallett’s mobility. Mallett obviously has his strengths, but there is a reason why scouts are concerned with his movement.

by Reedskin on Apr 23, 2011 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

You're right I don't & won't put all my chips on a youtube vid, especially one with that horrible music

But here are my args. if you’re interested – the ones I rest my arg. for drafting Mallett as early as possible on:

Case in Point 1: Mallett isn’t Mike Vick, but neither are Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Matt Hasselbeck, or Big Ben Roethlisburger. He can roll out & did successfully against SEC defenses, the most blistering & difficult for QBs to face in the NCAA.
Case in Point 2: Has best arm strength in the draft
Case in Point 3: Has the best short-pass and intermediate-pass accuracy. On long-passes has the most energy in his throws and only needs to be taught to set his feet better.
Case in Point 4: Mallett’s stats. They don’t lie.
Case in Point 4A: Despite unforeseen betrayal by Michigan after Carr left & being shunted off by Rodriguez, being penalized a year for filing a transfer request to Arkansas, then going to a school where he was unfamiliar with the coach & personnel, he improved dramatically against the most potent defenses in college football – and he wasn’t face-crushed Byron Leftwich-style.
Case in Point 4B: Kyle Shanahan runs a modified West-Coast offense that is designed for big-plays instead of dink & dunks. If we draft Mallett in the 1st-round, we can build protection for him if we don’t repeat past mistakes & mortgage picks for trades and stick to a plan of drafting hogs over the next two years.
Case in Point 4C: Also, the Shanahans emphasize the running attack when big-play passes are not in the mix, and their typical stable of running backs will take pressure off of Mallett too.
Case in Point 5: Played in a pro-style offense under Bobby Petrino. The most daunting aspect of developing quarterbacks is getting them to get used to the pro-style. That’s already been done for us. All he would need to be taught would be to improve his legwork and setting his feet under pressure.
Case in Point 6: Compare his numbers to Locker’s stats. The numbers don’t lie, Locker is just not that great a prospect. He has the physique but not the ability. And regarding Locker’s superior rushing stats., it’s a lot easier running from PAC 10 defenses that in part helped Oregon blitz offensive #‘s like scalpels through butter on the sun. Which makes his passing stats that much less auspicious, and leads to 6A.
Case in Point 6A: Then couple that with the fact that Locker had a stable collegiate career where coaching turnovers & offensive philosophy revolutions didn’t force him to adjust to a new coach, adjust to new personnel & a new receiving corps, or adjust to a new conference like the SEC and its attendant best defenses in the country

And any concern about his athleticism is overblown. No he’s not going to outrun defenders, few QBs do. But he’s not totally inept. He can side-step a defender in the pocket and is a quite effective passer when rolling out. If you watch the video above, you’ll see a quarterback who can evade the rush a little bit and can pass the football with zip and accuracy on the run.

Case in Point 7: Has the best field vision of any QB in this draft. And in terms of "attitudinal" concerns, unless you go to BYU or Liberty, finding a normal college student athlete that hasn’t gotten drunk and/or smoked grass is as easy as capturing a chupacabra or jackalope. You find me a student that hasn’t experimented in college, which for 90% of people plays a key laboratory function in the proper socialization of emerging adults, and I’ll track you down a unicorn.

Case in Point 8: Most importantly in terms of intangibles, our team, the Washington Redskins are THE most uniquely endowed with the right veteran personnel to inoculate Mallett from any maturity growing pains. The way our team leaders like London Fletcher-Baker, Chris Cooley, Rocky McIntosh, and especially (and counter-intuitively) DeAngelo Hall – who’s been through growing pains before but found his path to righteousness in Washington, have handled so much in their careers, to most recently presenting a united front against Haynesworth & were in solidarity with Shanahan when they collectively showed Haynesworth who’s boss when he pouted, in a vacuum a team might give pause if they were young, developing, and dumb in terms of inexperience like the Bucs, but we don’t have that kind of makeup. We HAVE the personnel to groom this guy perfectly, from our players to our coaches.

GMs at the most consistently improved organizations (Patriots, Jeff Ireland & the Dolphins on-record) are showing interest at possibly picking him at a "steal" discount price if he fell to them.

As such he’s as good a QB pick we’ll get a look at to build around in the near-future, especially if you contextualize our player personnel’s preparedness to help groom him and what he brings (cumulatively see above).

by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Apr 23, 2011 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love the arguements bro

where in the hell have you been for the last 3 months? I feel like I have been fighting this uphill battle alone.

I love the detractors who point to any flaw they can about Ryan(he’s too tall, he injury prone, he’s stupid etc.). I have been directing these same people back to his stats for months, yet they still continue to agrue. So people just don’t like the kid, and will find any reason in the world to tyr and diminish his value with unfounded reasoning.

I wasn’t, and am still not 100% sold on how well he fits into our offensive scheme, but with a QB of his calibur, you certainly build your system around his strengths. The kid DOES throw very well on the roll-out, and of course he has the arm strength to make every throw reqiured of a top-notch NFL QB.

I have also been making the arguement to show what he did against SEC defenses. There was actually one poster who said they wouldn’t touch him because of his poor bowl game last year; unbelievable! What, the kid isn’t allowed to have a bad freakin game?

I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!

by Tiller56 on Apr 24, 2011 7:29 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

tiller

you were never alone. ITS DRAFT TIME BABY!!!!!

i was in awe everytime is saw him play. And Grand Tanyon Sturtze, you forgot one key thing…….THE KID WON!!!!!!!!

by back_to_the_future on Apr 25, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Thanks Tiller!!

I hate saying this because there’s that douche Ravens fan that (used to?) pop in here saying he was “interning” as the basis of his knowledge or some bizarre lame shite like that, but the reason i’ve been MIA for a while is i’m in grad school & it’s been a devastatingly packed semester. I’ve been trying (finals) to as rapidly as possible catch up on old articles between exams and papers ASAP and I’m loving your args, I’m on board with you Tiller, Mallett’s a go amigo!

by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Apr 26, 2011 6:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with most all of those points.

I think Mallett has the most potential of any QB in the draft (more than Cam, who I don’t like as a prospect). I’d even be okay with the idea of drafting him in the second round. I was just pointing out a flaw (yes, Tiller) in his game. His movement is more awkward than the other QBs you mentioned—it’s just something we need to take into account when evaluating him. To fall in love with a prospect to the point where you start ignoring flaws is dangerous. It’s also important not to nitpick to the point where you ignore all of a guys’ strengths. I’m just trying to stay between those two extremes.

by Reedskin on Apr 24, 2011 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Also...

other immobile guys (Brady, Manning) have overcome that weakness by knowing when and where to get rid of the ball—they know their checkdowns and are excellent at knowing where pressure is coming from. Mallett could learn to mitigate his mobility deficiency in the same manner. We just don’t really know yet, as he didn’t face much pressure behind the Arkansas O-line.

by Reedskin on Apr 24, 2011 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Since we have such a weak schedule this year

maybe it’s smart if we get our QB now

I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!

by Tiller56 on Apr 24, 2011 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't think we should base decisions on guessing about next year.

Maybe we’ll pick 15th, maybe we’ll pick 1st. Maybe we’ll have a shot at Luck/Jones, maybe not. It’s just really hard to predict how that stuff is going to shake down. For the record, I’m also against the idea of waiting till next year JUST because someone loves one of the 2012 QBs.

I think we should only take a QB this year if there’s a QB we think is worth taking at a particular spot. Forget about next year—just evaluate this year’s QBs and move on. I don’t want to tank a season just to play the Luck lottery, nor do I want to “reach” for a lesser QB prospect just because the position might be a weakness for us.

All that being said, Mallett’s a guy who I think merits a selection if he’s still around when we pick in the second.

by Reedskin on Apr 25, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

cam will have to b a system qb

i see him being in the mold of big ben. he will need a fast WR, checkdown HB, and a good TE…he will succeed in MIN & Philly. a system similar to those teams

by back_to_the_future on Apr 25, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

He has a helluva windup....

He looks like damn Tim Lincecum out there he has such a windup. Good for baseball, bad for a QB…..The defensive line will have like twenty minutes to get their arms up and knock down his throws unless he magically develops a quicker release. That and I have him figured as falling (mentally) somewhere between Ryan Leaf and Jeff George….

what you've just said... is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

by gopens44 on Apr 20, 2011 12:43 PM EDT reply actions  

not at all

same was said about phillip rivers and he throew even worse. side armed. exact same QB traits.

by back_to_the_future on Apr 20, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

ha... haha.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

no.
You contradicted yourself by saying they traded for McNabb because he’d thrive in Mike’s offense and yet you say they run Kyle’s. So are there two playbooks that they swap in and out during the game? No wonder McNubbs struggled…………
How about this, we’re not going to win with this schedule in 2011, how bout we don’t draft a QB next Thursday/Friday and wait til there’s a 2004 level QB class next draft.
Mallett will not be a Redskin, if he is I know Mike has lost his scouting edge. And if they do take him, they better go Tyron Smith at 10 and nothing but Offensive lineman with their other 6 late round picks….

by Dammit Cerrato... on Apr 20, 2011 1:08 PM EDT reply actions  

I would like to see that draft mentality...

With no Guards, Center, or RT….there’s no justification for a QB even if we do trade back. As much as we want to say this is Kyle’s offense, it’s really Mike’s. He does the game plan and is way to much of an ego to hand things over without steering.

This Coach-Son combo setup is doomed.

"You're not going to remember Albert Haynesworth as a bust" - Haynesworth 2/28/2009
Hogs Haven. On Twitter..

by Kevin Ewoldt on Apr 20, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm going to be that guy..

and go out on a limb to say that Dalton is the best QB in this draft. I think if the Redskins draft a guy this year, they better not freaking start in 2011. This is a 2007 level of talent at QB in the draft this year.
Cam Newton, not an NFL QB, I don’t what anybody says, he might flash a Vince Young type career where he’s good for a highlight one season
Blaine Gabbert, why? why is he a first round ranked QB? What’s so special?
Ryan Mallet, second coming of Matt Jones
Andy Dalton, the only proven guy that has the things that really matter in evaluating the position. Heart, smarts, and accuracy.
Christian Ponder, Chad Pennington pt 2
Jake Locker, has the heart, not the ability

If not Dalton at 41 overall, I don’t want him

by Dammit Cerrato... on Apr 20, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hello, Peter King!

Dalton is nowhere CLOSE to the best QB in this draft. He’s a game manager that can’t make all the NFL throws.

by tuckwell on Apr 20, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

oh I just saw the end of your post ...

Ponder = Pennington is a total laugh. Dalton’s arm is quite possibly weaker than Pennington’s, while Ponder is significantly stronger and more able to hit the sideline throws. His deep throws hang on him a bit, but a lot of that is coachable, due to mechanics.

by tuckwell on Apr 20, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Sure, Ponder can make the throws

When he won’t be on IR. Ponder’s path will be similar to Pennington’s, that’s my opinion. They both came into the draft figuring to be ready to start. Not saying Ponder will bust, but I don’t see him being a consistent franchise QB and I expect him to be a journeyman QB in the league.
And how can you say that about Dalton? a game manager, the second most winning QB in college football history was a game manager? pretty sure that offense was based on the pass, not the run which would fall under the “game manager” label. Just because I say Dalton is the best QB in this draft doesn’t mean I’m expecting him to be at an elite level in the league, it speaks more to how weak this QB class is this year. It looks like 2007 where Russell and Quinn were the favorites in the 1st rd, Newton and Gabbert?

by Dammit Cerrato... on Apr 20, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Who did TCU play?

Nobody. A schedule full of crap. Dalton is no better than Kellen Moore out of Boise State, who also never played anybody, and the few times they did play somebody they caught them at just the right time. It’s not hard to look like an amazing QB when you don’t play difficult schedules (see: Brennan, Colt).

by tuckwell on Apr 21, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

It's starting to scare me Tuck

but you and I are agreeing more and more these days.

I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!

by Tiller56 on Apr 23, 2011 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

LOL

I think it’s just a couple guys we don’t see eye to eye on.

by tuckwell on Apr 23, 2011 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

True

Your still a fun guy to have discussions with. I respect your knowledge, and enjoy your opinion(even if it sometimes drives me crazy) LOL

I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!

by Tiller56 on Apr 23, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hope "Dammit Cerrato..."'s analysis was a joke or an accidental copy-&-paste from The Onion

He had one good year and played against historically weak ACC competition.

Blaine Gabbert, why? why is he a first round ranked QB? What’s so special?

Great negative argument. Truly pierced what all of the experts are touting as his strengths/weaknesses.

Ryan Mallet, second coming of Matt Jones
I guess the downside to free speech is that anybody can make anything up, like you just did.
Andy Dalton, the only proven guy that has the things that really matter in evaluating the position. Heart, smarts, and accuracy.
Okay Tim Tebow.
Christian Ponder, Chad Pennington pt 2
Sucks, didn’t even do that well until his final year, playing and having played against historically uncompetitive ACC conference teams during his collegiate career.
Jake Locker, has the heart, not the ability
Great affirmative argument. Comprehensive, analytical, statistical. You covered all of your bases.

Lol.

by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Apr 22, 2011 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

hahaha +1 Hello, Peter King!

“Heart, smarts, and accuracy”. Also played in the puny WAC.

I think poster “Dammit Cerrato…” is actually Tim Tebow secretly trolling this site trying to give more cred to QBs in bad QB drafts that only have their Bible Studies classes to lean on as a crutch due to talent and athleticism deficiencies.

by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Apr 22, 2011 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not totally with you

but I do believe Dalton isn’t as bad as some people make him out to be. In fact I would take the 2nd tier of QB’s (from when the draft process started, of Ponder, Kaepernick, Dalton and Stanzi over the top 4 of Gabbert, Newton, Locker and Mallet.

I agree Dalton has all the intangibles you are looking for and could be good value, I just don’t see him as a top 50 guy. If the Skins have a late 2nd due to a trade back and he is there then I’m buying (though I still like Kaepernick more).

Ponder I think you are a little rough on. He looked a lot stronger at the Combine from the Senior bowl, and did good at both places. I also think he is the most likely to contribute early (say the last couple weeks of year one). I’m not totally buying him as a 1st round guy, but I do like Ponder a lot.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 20, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let me ask you this Steveo

When you go back and watch film of Ponder over the last 3 years, what do you see that makes you think he will survive in the NFL? I see and injury prone, underachiever, who now has arm problems. Do you see the same?

I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!

by Tiller56 on Apr 23, 2011 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not Steveo but I want to answer.

Nothing like that at all. Ponder was a midrange 3 star recruit out of Texas, overshadowed by other guys in the recruiting rankings that year. However, he worked so hard that by his sophomore year, Bobby Bowden and Jimbo Fisher knew they had no choice but to start him over senior Drew Weatherford, who’d been starting since his freshman year. Ponder exploded his junior year, and were it not for the shoulder injury (suffered on an ill-advised attempt to tackle a very large linebacker after an interception) would have finished the year with well over 3,000 yards. His senior year was marred by inexperienced O-line and WR play, and a tendon issue in his elbow.

Ponder has actually overachieved according to his recruiting rankings. As far as being injury prone, two thoughts on that. Anyone could have busted their shoulder on the hit he took (remember, even Timmy Christ Tebow got knocked the f out once during a game). The arm thing, according to what Ponder has said during this offseason, was mostly caused by him using incorrect mechanics to try to overcome the shoulder injury. He has refined his mechanics, fixed the issue, and hasn’t had a single problem with his arm since the end of the season. Assuming the Shanahans know what they’re doing with QBs (um, duh?) there would never be a worry about his arm injury being reaggrivated in the same manner. It’s not a chronic injury.

by tuckwell on Apr 23, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

+1

Ponder played against historically low ACC competition and did overachieve. He will not last very long in the NFL and would be a waste of an early-round draft pick

by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Apr 23, 2011 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

you must be blind

or dumb. Blind if you can’t see how dumb you sound pretending that Ponder’s ephemeral (e.g., last year) “overachievement” in an ACC conference that was no-where near its historical peaks ==> A solid early pick.

I can’t tell if you’re trying to joke or what. Look at these #’s. Disgusting.

by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Apr 26, 2011 6:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

I just don't see it Tuck

The injury scares me. The talent level scares me. I see the inability to Drive the ball downfield on the deep throws, which scares the hell out of me. I see too much air under the dig route, and the deep outs(you can get away with that in college, but not in the NFL). I also don’t see the natural progression in his reads. He seems confused when shown a single high safety, then when coverage is rolled to an open cover two, he seems to panic, and tries to stick to his initial read. Maybe what you said about his inexperienced WR corps had something to do with this, IDK, you’ll know more about that than me. It’s just that so many NFL teams disguise that rolled up cover 2 to perfection, yet it’s very easy to adjust to post snap.

IDK, maybe I’m being over critical here.

I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!

by Tiller56 on Apr 24, 2011 7:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Coaching, coaching, coaching.

Ponder is easily the most coachable QB in this draft, and outside of McElroy, the smartest. He can learn to read the more complex NFL defenses. He also has enough athleticism that if the defense throws something at him that he doesn’t understand, he can either extend the play to let a guy uncover and get the ball out quickly to him, or pull it down and get a few yards out of the play. I’m not going to pretend he’s the most talented guy out there, but neither are half the successful QBs in the league (Sanchez, Cassel, Brady — oh yes, I said Brady hehe).

Ponder would do well in our system I think with a year of coaching and a better O-line. We don’t have that luxury though, which is why I want us to just wait on QB and build the line, and hopefully be in position to look at Landry Jones next year.

by tuckwell on Apr 25, 2011 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

You do know the only think that Mallett and Jones have in common is the college they went to

Besides that, they are two different animals.

Matt Jones was a physical freak of an athlete; not so much for Mallett

Are you not entertained?

by Tiller56 on Apr 20, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wasn't serious...

It was a reaction to Mallett being a Redskin in front of the front 5 unit we have now

by Dammit Cerrato... on Apr 20, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Neither offense is set in their ways.

How much of a run-first offense did Houston turn into last year with Foster?

How each offense is run is largely determined by the health and skillsets of the roster, and who the opponent is.

Also, just because an analyst says Locker lacks pocket presence, doesn’t mean you should take it for an absolute truth. Locker had fewer sacks than Mallett, Ponder, Gabbert, or Newton, and he was under center more than all of them (debatable with Ponder).

Most importantly though, is that schemes change and adapt to the skills of the players. What doesn’t change is the drive and work ethic of the players to prepare in that scheme. Jake Locker is the forerunner in that category (with Ponder and Gabbert being debatable).

by SSBlitz on Apr 20, 2011 1:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Most importantly though, is that schemes change and adapt to the skills of the players.

Like moving a defense built for a 4-3 to a 3-4? haha. I’m so glad that debate is over with.

Good points though all around.

"You're not going to remember Albert Haynesworth as a bust" - Haynesworth 2/28/2009
Hogs Haven. On Twitter..

by Kevin Ewoldt on Apr 20, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look at Green Bay's first year after the transition.

Everything doesn’t come together over night.
We improved in turnovers, points allowed (minus MNF), and redzone D.
But typical rankings only consider yardage allowed (which also gets inflated with offensive 3-and-outs).

by SSBlitz on Apr 20, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

your last sentence makes sense, but I have to disagree with your other points

We did not improve in turnovers-the Redskins averaged about 25 or 26 turnovers for the last seven seasons or so, 2009 was an outlier.

We play 16 games, therefore the Monday night football massacre is part of our points allowed stat. However, it also is an outlier.

I don’t remember our red zone defense being all that ferocious, but I could be wrong. I just don’t remember teams scoring consistently with big plays (exception Philadelphia game). I more remember just being ground up into the ground constantly by runs up the left side.

The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button

by Skins Fan '77 on Apr 20, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes but GB has the Personnel

Jenkins, Raji and Pickett are better than anything the Redskins are close to having along the d-line (assuming Haynesworth isn’t back)

Orakpo is roughly equal to Matthews, though obviously you have to give a slight edge to Matthews. The rest of their LB corps isn’t that great and no one player is better than Fletch, but the 3 of them are better than our 3 (including Fletch).

Woodson is well above Hall or Rodgers and the rest of the Packers corners are better than the Skins as well. Landry has the edge among all safeties, but the Packers have something the Redskins lacked last season (though hopefully is no longer an issue) a free safety.

I think we will improve some with simple changes like Jarmon starting, Kemo not playing, a FS etc. but we still aren’t close to the level that the Packers are on.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 20, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, and we still don't have a nose tackle.

The Packers other safety should have made the Pro bowl, I can’t remember his name right now but didn’t he have like seven interceptions?

Almost every player on the front seven is playing out of position in the 34. The only exceptions that I see are Adam Carreker and London Fletcher. Rak remains a liability in coverage and also in my opinion stopping the run. He’s playing too tall from a two-point stance. He’s a much better pass rusher as a 43 defensive end.

The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button

by Skins Fan '77 on Apr 20, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Rak will be fine

though I do have to say it did seem that Orakpo was in coverage far too much last season. He should be rushing just about every single play.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 20, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rak has 2 pro bowls under his belt so he must be doing something right

Both Carriker and Haynesworth will be good at DE. The combination of Fletch and Riley/Hen should be good at MLB. The trio of Jackson, LoAx and Wilson should be fine opposite Rak. WE finally have Landry playing where he should be, and now have a legit FS to go along with him.

On paper, this D doesn’t look too bad. We had some growing pains last season with the move to the 3-4, but I expect a much better showing this year.

I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!

by Tiller56 on Apr 23, 2011 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

i agree

for the most part. except for locker played in the PAC 10. offense friendly conference in which stats are inflated. The other Qb’s you listed dont.

by back_to_the_future on Apr 20, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well this is bad news

what you’re saying is the Redskins coaches don’t have an identity playing out for their team. Of course you want to play to your players strengths, what sucks is we don’t have the players. Drafting QBs is a crapshoot, everyone knows that. But to argue for Mallett just doesn’t make sense, out of Shanny’s track record you don’t see a Ryan Mallett.
I like Locker, I think he’s got Tebow like heart, but I also think he has a Tebow like future unless he sits for 3 years before getting his chance, a luxury the Redskins and Shanahan don’t have.

by Dammit Cerrato... on Apr 20, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Mike's identity is a run-first west coast style offense, for sure.

But when Cutler had Marshall and Royal, their offense looked a lot different than when Terrell Davis was carrying the load. And even then, their approach with change on a weekly basis depending on the opponent.

I disagree about Locker needing 3 years though. Definitely one, as everyone this year does. I think he and Ponder have the approach to work with Shanahan, who is notorious at pushing people. They don’t have the technique problems that Tebow does (and less reliance on running), so with hard work they could be ready in 2012. Maybe.

Speaking of being able to work with Mike Shanahan. In Mike’s book, John Elway writes a message over a few pages about how he understands Mike Shanahan better than anyone, because of the ridiculous amount of time they’ve spent together. He compares Mike’s approach to coaching to a situation with the players being in a pool treading water. And Mike is on the edge with his foot on your head. And he keeps pushing you under so you have to fight harder and harder to get your head above the water. And then right when you’re about to drown, he lets up. It’s a hell of a struggle, but you’re significantly improved because of that.

by SSBlitz on Apr 20, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which makes the disconnect between Mike and Haynesworth more obvious.

I think Locker could work well with him because he is determined to be a great QB. Even giving up $50 million dollars towards what he calls “buying into the process”. He takes coaching well, and nobody is arguing his drive.

Ponder has really impressed me to, with his obvious attributes and statistically better accuracy. What really jumped out at me was his approach to FSU. He went in wanting to get his Master’s while he was on scholarship, so he setup a plan and went at it (something over-emphasized in Mike’s book). He got his first degree in 2 years and then his Master’s a year and half after that. Then he set his goals even further, getting another half a degree before coming to the NFL. With Mike helping him set and achieve similar goals in the NFL, Ponder get look really good in B&G.

by SSBlitz on Apr 20, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am liking Ponder more and more all the time....

I have been leaning that way for a while. I am admittedly one of those guys who hasn’t really seen these guys play and gets all his information from what they read (I do read more than just here there). At first I think I started Ponder out of process of elimination, but the more I read about him the better I like him.

by MagicHat on Apr 20, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's a good kid

and very likeable. But I caution you, he will not be the greatest fit in our offense. WCO is where he will succeed.

I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!

by Tiller56 on Apr 23, 2011 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am really in the ozone about the QB's this year

I just haven’t had the opportunity to watch much college ball over the past few seasons, so I have to pretty much rely on what I can glean from the internet. All I know for sure is I hope we don’t go get one of these guys at #10, and I will get behind whatever Shanny decides.

by MagicHat on Apr 23, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re-visit Locker at #10

Had we drafted him last year at #4, it would have made a lot of Redskins fans very happy. He’s still the same person.

I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!

by Tiller56 on Apr 23, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like I said! I love Locker

I do, I think he’s the guy to want leading your team. For a guy who had s around him in Washington, and a bad record, he did lead them down the field when he needed too. USC twice, Washington State, Nebraska when it was needed. I like Locker but he cannot start in a year, not at least to where he can be successful. I make this point not only because of Locker’s development, but because of the support around him (or lack there of) this team is not going to be competing for awhile, so why rush a project like a Locker or a Dalton to the field. This roster is not ready, and it takes time. One of these guys may be the answer, but it doesn’t have to be now. I’d prefer Grossman out there, I know we’re not going to win this season, and I think the real fan knows the process involved in something like molding a team.
Ponder is no sure thing, as much as everyone is arguing it.

by Dammit Cerrato... on Apr 20, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh and the "real fan" comment was not calling anybody out

it was just to those who got the sched yesterday and are saying we’re grabbing a 10-win season in 2011.

by Dammit Cerrato... on Apr 20, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Locker has the physical make-up to play in 2011

His body is more adapt to taking a pounding than most QB’s coming into the NFL, but if forced into action, he could be the best of the bunch to be able to handle the NFL from a physicality standpoint.

Are you not entertained?

by Tiller56 on Apr 20, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think that has ever been the question

I think the issue is how will he handle it mentally

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 20, 2011 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you have heard him speak

or heard his coach speak about him, you will have no doubts about his mental make-up. Hard worker, leader, first in the film/weight room, last to leave, no off-field issues.

This is the kind of kid we need. He will not come in and do everything perfect; thats for sure. He is going to have growing pains, but I’d rather he have them now, while we are in rebuilding mode, so in two years, we are ready to contend.

And I truely believe that in two years, we will be able to contend with him.

Gruden asked Locker in their sit-down, why did you decide to come back, when you were a sure-fire top 10 pick? He answered, to have a winning record, take my team to a bowl game, and get my degree. He accomplished all of these. For that, I commend him.

Are you not entertained?

by Tiller56 on Apr 20, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

I don't mean mental makeup like

work ethic, or having a Ryan Leaf collapse. But i mean mentally processing the plays, the defense etc. The Senior Bowl was a big red flag that he could come in and own that, despite having the best NFL pedigree in terms of coaching/system.

I commend Locker for going back to school, and supporting his teammates. I also give him high marks for his workout routine and leadership. As well as not having the head case issues of a Mallet.

My thing is I see a guy who didn’t really succeed with his arm as much as you’d like to see in college. Accuracy does matter, and while you can talk about about the talent around him, it wasn’t as awful as people make it out to be. Guys like Dalton and Kaepernick played with poor talent, yet succeeded. Also both of them faired better Senior Bowl week than Locker did. And while you can argue that the Senior Bowl isn’t important, but when you are expected to be a top 10-15 pick, you better believe it is important.

I firmly believe that Locker needs at least the Phillip Rivers treatment of 2 years to develop on the bench to have any real chance of success.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 20, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Correct me if I'm wrong but

if I remember right, he completed 60% of his Senior Bowl passes, 2 were dropped and another was thrown away. That’s actually pretty damn good.

by TheDeepBall on Apr 20, 2011 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm talking but his entire week of work not just the 10 or 12 throws of the game

From what I remember is completions were mainly the simple sit down routes and not the outside the number throws that really are his issue.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 20, 2011 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

He actually looked good

and improved during the week of practice

Are you not entertained?

by Tiller56 on Apr 20, 2011 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

completely disagree

as do the majority of scouts and pundits out there

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 20, 2011 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know who your following then

because many were impressed with the progress he made throughout the week, and his coachability

Are you not entertained?

by Tiller56 on Apr 20, 2011 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes most of the espn guys were

but Lande, Caplan, Pauline, wes bunting, mike mayock, Rang, the draftcountdown guys were all really down on him.

Reuter and Doug Fararr had very mixed reviews on him

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 20, 2011 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mayock wasn't as down as some of the other ones

but throughout the practices he made multiple comments on Locker’s high throws and accuracy issues. Maybe Mayock and Charles Davis would go in the inbetween camp, but the fact of the matter is they didn’t support him.

Outside of Todd McShay (who then even backed off his statements) most of the big names were either mixed reviews or unimpressed with Locker’s Senior Bowl. Now some have come back to his side with his Combine and Pro Day performances, but as for his Senior Bowl performance the majority of pundits are against.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 21, 2011 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think you're looking at the Senior Bowl through a tinted lense.

And putting too much stock in it.

Locker wasn’t great, but he wasn’t bad. Mayock commented that some of his throws were high and wide, especially the first day. He said it was common to see this when players were excited, and that Jake was focusing too much on his footwork, which is what the coaches were really trying to improve that week.

by SSBlitz on Apr 21, 2011 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

why do we even put any stock in the senior bowl for qb's?

i understand one on one matchups like DE’s and LT’s, but QB’s? They have no chemistry with their receivers or running backs. The defense can not blitz, cover 1 or cover 3 on defense, and offensive players can’t go in motion. Its nice to have a collegiate all star game, but I wouldn’t put much stock into it. The week leading up to the game, sure, they’re getting coached by NFL coaches and their ability to be coached is seen as well as their work ethic. But the game itself…pointless

by ptowny on Apr 21, 2011 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

That is kinda my point

and to clarify when I say Senior Bowl I talk about the whole process, the practices, walkthrough’s and the game, with a lot more weight on the practices.

But the Senior Bowl is built for offenses to succeed (either in practice or the game) no blitz, bump and run, only 2 vanilla coverages etc., so why did Locker struggle?? And while he didn’t know exact timing with receivers, he was still probably the most inaccuate QB there, and when he missed it wasn’t just oh one or two yards off, it was 5 yards away or a major overthrow. That’s not a timing thing that is an accuracy issue.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 21, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thank you ptowny

I’ve been saying this for months

I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!

by Tiller56 on Apr 21, 2011 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here's the thing

the Senior Bowl to me, and probably most of the scouting community (the week, not just the game) is more important than the Combine and Pro Day combined (only advantage there is the medical aspect).

So when I see a quarterback who is supposed to be arguably the top QB in this class (and even if he’s not it isn’t as if he is going up against Manning or Ryan), struggle that throws up a huge red flag for me. Did Locker fail in the sense that he couldn’t hit any passes…no. But he did not put up 1st round talent in the Senior Bowl, and even saying he looked like a 2nd rounder is quite questionable. So why should I draft a guy in the top 50 that can’t even come close to looking like a star in what is basically an NFL walkthrough. Locker looked liked exactly what I’ve been saying and that is a 2-3 year developmental guy. He flashed all that potential, but not being able to crack the Senior Bowl is pretty unimpressive.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 21, 2011 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

he questioned him all week

did he ever come out and say Locker sucks…no. But all week he said I want to see him more accurate between the numbers and on thur. he talked about his picks and fumbles.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 21, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Jon Gruden's comments to Locker as well as about him. The main issue seemed to be that

in order to last in the NFL, Locker would have to be less physical, i.e., he should opt to get out of bounds rather than to take on would be tacklers. Gruden said something about Locker would need to change face masks at half time if he continued to play like he did at Washington.

by Jefferson1935 on Apr 20, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lol, "Dalton & Locker have Tebow-like heart"

“Dammit Cerrato…”, I think you should find your QBs over at the Salvation Army, real NFL QBs may give you the willies.

by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Apr 22, 2011 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

On Mallett missing the Carolina workout

Looks bad, as if he is so undisciplined that he gets bombed the night before a big workout, and is so hungover he can’t go to the meeting. Could be he’s not a druggie, but a drunk – and that’s hard to shake. But – a very big “but” – as somebody above mentioned, he could have missed the meeting for other reasons. Particularly, maybe he got turned off on Carolina, the team, the town, the coaches, didn’t want to compete with Clausen, maybe heard something – whatever, he just did not want to go to Carolina. So he just basically pulled out. The whole thing makes me think he is one wild guy, parties hard, does what he wants to do, decisive, impulsive and immature, probably not the smartest guy in the world. But he’s young, and those traits don’t necessarily make you a bad QB – I think of Bret Favre, and Sonny Jurgensen (in terms of partying, not brains – Sonny is brilliant). Compare that picture to Christian Ponder, described above by SSBlitz – quiet, determined, workaholic who aces every test. The picture Elway painted of Shanahan was also indicative. A hard head like Mallett working for a control freak like Shanahan? Fireworks. So I reserve judgement on him and his wild ways, and he is a big, tough, talented guy, but have to be a little apprehensive about a Shanahan-Mallett team.

by Donnio1234 on Apr 20, 2011 2:13 PM EDT reply actions  

A druggie?

I hate that euphemism. Case-in-point. Maybe the correct term should be substance abuser

by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Apr 22, 2011 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't think he's either a druggie or a substance abuser

He never flunked a drug test at Arkansas or Michigan. But I read that he was arrested for a DUI. That doesn’t bother me – most drink in college – but if there was clear evidence that he still drank a lot, that would be a problem. But I don’t think he is any kind of an alcoholic. By the way, I think “druggie” was just a short term for drug abuser, whereas as substance abuser is a broader term that would include those who abused booze, drugs and anything else that can be abused.

by Donnio1234 on Apr 22, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just watched a little of the "case in point"

The quote below the clip, seemingly pushing for legalization of cannabis, was sort of funny and sad. It was meant to be serious, but was so muddled and incoherent it amounted to a strong reason to not legalize any drug, including cannabis, pot, marijuana, whatever you call it. – something sure messed up that guy’s mind.

by Donnio1234 on Apr 22, 2011 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

What's funny & sad is the staid idiocy that thinks prohibition is morally enforceable as a legal norm

Okay “druggie marijuana” guy.

J. Stevens:

The failure of the so-called “drug war” lead me to wonder whether the fear of disapproval by those in the majority in silencing opponents of the war on drugs is its purported “informed basis.” While alcoholic beverages are now regarded as ordinary articles of commerce, their use was then condemned with the same moral fervor that now supports the war on drugs.

And like Scotus J. Louis Brandeis said: “Sunlight is the best disinfectant.” Alcohol prohibition pushed distribution into grey & black markets, and so it goes with any criminalization. I’m guessing you didn’t take economics or think critically about the downstream implications of unthinking default social policy.

How many successes do you read about the drug war? None, because militarizing substance regulation rejects science, pushes activities out of the light, spurs cartelization, and creates war where there was previously none.

I sleep better at night knowing I’m more educated on the issue, and that I don’t support policies that justify this with a disparate impact on those with less money & people of color. Anyway I’ll step off the soapbox, but you’re plainly ignorant and sorely need to learn critical thinking skills.

by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Apr 23, 2011 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I should have clarified, I am generally for legalizing marijuana

and always have been, even though I almost never used it. I’m also for legalizing and regulating some other drugs, although in practice I would go slow, since it’s a complicated situation. I would ban drugs that blow your mind, like LSD. But as I read in criminology courses, the drug war is a government invention, similar to prohibition, and, to an extent, a waste of time that does more harm than good – more government meddling. England used to have opium dens, and heroin was legal until some time in the 20s. But I would go slow, because it’s complicated, some drugs do cause a lot of harm. I am a libertarian in some (not most) ways, and don’t like most blue laws and hate the prohibition on online gambling. Prohibition was a disaster in some ways, but the government never learns. My comment was just noting that the quotes below the tape (not the tape) was probably counter-productive because it was sort of muddled.

by Donnio1234 on Apr 23, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

My bad, i understand you now

Glad (i think?) we agree on Mallett being worth an early pick!

by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Apr 23, 2011 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

There is a huge difference of opinion on Mallett, and

I really don’t know what I would do – except leave it to Shanahan to figure out! Tiller and others like him and the stats support him and everybody agrees that he is a terrific passer, and he is clearly a big, tall, tough guy. Meanwhile, Diesel and others whack him on intelligence and character grounds, and others say he is not mobile and is not good in the pocket. I have only seen him play briefly, so can’t add much. If I had to decide, I’d suggest that he’s too risky for the first round, but I’d be very interested if he was available in the second. It’s hard to see how a guy that big and talented could be a complete bust. In the draft it could come down to a choice – like between Locker, Ponder and Mallett – a pretty nice dilemma.

by Donnio1234 on Apr 24, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Video Comments

Few things I noticed.

In that highlight video mallet looked great overall, as is the purpose of highlights. If I had to throw some negative things in there they would be:

Watching him throw the crossing route and drags, he often threw slightly behind the receiver who was crossing over the middle. He still hit them but it was not right where you wanted the throw to be.

Also a few underthrown 9 routes leading to the receiver having to slow up and making the coverage tighter than it should be.

In college, those guys are so open they can walk into the end zone even if the ball placements not perfect. In the pros, hitting the wrong shoulder can often lead to a pick or a break up of the pass.

You can pick apart any qb’s game if you look hard enough though. And yeah the rumours about him partying hard suggest baggage. A strong coach and veteran team could beat that out of him. But i’m not sure i’d take a chance with it.

The Beat Box aka skins secondary.

by Al_CaPWNED on Apr 20, 2011 2:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Let me ask it this way.....

Is any QB in this draft going to be better than Rex Grossman was or is now? I don’t think so….which is why we should bag em all.

"You're not going to remember Albert Haynesworth as a bust" - Haynesworth 2/28/2009
Hogs Haven. On Twitter..

by Kevin Ewoldt on Apr 20, 2011 3:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Not right away

I’m sure there’s 1 gem qb in this draft but who that is I have no idea.

So many factors. I didn’t think i’d ever say this..but grossman should start the entire year and maybe even the next one, while someones groomed..

Though after all this qb talk, watch the redskins not even pick one up in the draft.

The Beat Box aka skins secondary.

by Al_CaPWNED on Apr 20, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not so sure there is a gem in there

Dalton maybe? I think this is truly a weak QB class and I def think sexy rexy should start the season. I mean of course he isn’t the long term solution, but why not draft other positions next Thursday-Saturday? We need to hit on every pick already.

by Dammit Cerrato... on Apr 20, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Andy Dalton < Rex Grossman

talk about shooting an absolute blank on a high-draft pick. I almost fall out of my chair when I read that one guy screaming for Dalton/Locker picks based on character. I think we have an expert from the Southern Baptist Convention trying to influence our decisions in D.C. ’fellas

by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Apr 22, 2011 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

agree 100%

What makes the Redskins better this season: Grossman with two starters at 10 and 41 (assuming no trade back), at least one being an O-lineman or…

Grossman and Mallet/Locker/Dalton/Ponder etc sitting on the bench and one starter at 10 (hopefully we aren’t dumb enough to take a QB at 10) but maybe it not being an O-linemen??

Yes the counter argument is in the future these guys will be better, but there is no guarantee. And i do believe that some of these guys are going to need 2-3 years, so then we are waiting until 2013/2014 to see any value from this top 41 pick.

If you trade back to the late 1st round and get Ponder (sorry I’m not buying Mallet or Locker at all), then maybe I can be okay with it, because you will have gotten at least 2 other top 3 round picks (and hopefully more). Still not my favorite strategy, but doable. Taking a QB with only two draft picks in the top 41 I think is irresponsible.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 20, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does anybody here have an honest opinion as to why Beck is the only quarterback signed for 2012?

Why did we not lock up Grossman before the deadline?
It really looks to me that if Shanahan doesn’t get whatever QB he wants, we are going with either McNabb and Beck or Grossman and Beck with a low rounder QB.

Honestly, the two-year contract we gave to Beck has been a real head scratcher for me

The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button

by Skins Fan '77 on Apr 20, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the Beck deal last year was to ensure we had someone under contract

Also if I remember correctly it lowered his base salary for last year and if they cut him, the Skins end up saving money.

As for not signing Grossman I think it’s not a huge deal. Sure it would have been nice to see, but his best opportunity is with the Skins under K. Shanahan so I really don’t see him considering leaving.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 20, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

There should be 4 or 5 pretty good candidates available in the second round

in a sense, close to equal ability. So just wait and hope for the best. But I would take one, for sure. Locker, Ponder, Mallett, Kaepernick, Dalton – whichever Mike and Kyle likes best.

by Donnio1234 on Apr 20, 2011 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm starting to lean Mallett or Kap in the 2nd

eventhough I still don’t think Mallett lasts intil the 2nd.

If we don’t go Locker in the 1st(which is still my top choice), I route for Julio, then Kap in the 2nd.

Put it this way, eventhough Kap will take some time to develop, I’ll take him any day over Ponder and Dalton.

Are you not entertained?

by Tiller56 on Apr 21, 2011 7:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Me neither, no way Mallett lasts until the 2nd

He’s going to be a stud, and the other teams know that despite I’m sure everyone (like us apparently) has a fiery little minority who doesn’t like a particular selection, like drafting Ryan Mallett. I can see Mallett being a B+ version of Dan Marino without a doubt, can’t wait/really hope we get the chance & bite on it to nab him in the 1st. If not, at least go Tyson Smith.

WRs are just as unpredictable as QBs – moreso because they’re less prepared for the unique (non-unique to QBs transitioning from the NCAA to the pros) from collegiate star to ump’teenth option in most cases. Crossing my fingers for Ryan Mallett to wear Redskins colors on draft day, or if he doesn’t make it to #10, for that man to be Tyson Smith.

by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Apr 22, 2011 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

WR's are unpredictable

But if you look at a guy like Julio Jones, he gives you a physical presence, who is a major threat after the catch, and is by far the best blocking WR in the draft which immediatly helps our running game. Add in the fact that he is over 6 foot tall, and can run in the 4.3’s(with a broken foot), and you definitly have a recipe for success.

I’ve said thia before, and I’ll say it again; If we draft Julio in the 1st, and Kap in the 2nd, I will be pleased.

I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!

by Tiller56 on Apr 23, 2011 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I dunno, to me Julio Jones = Dexter McCluster with a bigger body & a hyped-name

And we don’t run a traditional WCO, it’s big-play / run the RB stable isn’t it? I mean that’s what the Post has been saying covering Kyle S.’s offensive philosophy.

I just don’t think Jones is going to be worth it, but I think it’s very very possible I’m wrong on that point. The arguments for Jones could definitely be right on point, but the arguments against Mallett are just parrotings of what people have heard ESPN/SI repeat for the last 6 mos.

by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Apr 23, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

To me

Jones is the type of WR this team has been lacking for a decade. Big, fast, physical WR who is a match-up problem, and a major redzone threat. He’s Brandon Marshall with speed.

I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!

by Tiller56 on Apr 24, 2011 7:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think I might be majorly wrong on Jones

I’m around a lot of SEC fans and I think I instinctively begin eval’ing their players in a contrarian way – I think you’re right, Julio Jones would be baller

by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Apr 26, 2011 6:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hell yes

Grossman is a career backup. The rookie we draft will have passed Grossman on the depth chart by mid season

Are you not entertained?

by Tiller56 on Apr 20, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okay not to tout Grossman

but why should we believe that a rookie will have passed Grossman on the depth chart (due to merit, not fan pressure). Rookie QB’s don’t have a great track record, and none of these guys are Manning/Roethlisberger/Ryan

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 20, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's simple

Grossman is a train wreck. There is a reason he wasn’t starting over the last few seasons. He’s not good. Lets loose with a rookie QB, who will at least learn some valuable lessons, than loose with a lame-duck QB.

I’m just thankful were not going to be any good this season. Could you imagine if we had an actuall team around Grossman, and we were counting on him to win games for us?

Are you not entertained?

by Tiller56 on Apr 20, 2011 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

It totally depends on who the QB is

plus, the new mantra in the NFL is play em’ and play em’ early. It has worked rescently.

Are you not entertained?

by Tiller56 on Apr 20, 2011 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

It has worked with Ryan and Flacco, possibly Bradford (good 1st year for a rookie, but obviously regression is possible)

hasn’t worked out too well for Stafford (even when he has played all you have seen is flashes) or Sanchez whom has been even worse than McNabb (must be nice to have a great defense, offensive line and skill guys). You could say Freeman, but remember he sat 8-10 games his rookie year. Which I think is a minimum for any QB this year, and more so for some.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Apr 20, 2011 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

You can't put Sanchez in that group

The kid has done nothing but win(eventhough the wins may not have been on his shoulders). In the NFL it’s all about winning game. Teams don’t care how that happens, they are just concerned that it’s a W. Just not a fair comparison

I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!

by Tiller56 on Apr 23, 2011 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Rex and Beck came to Fletcher's little workout

Seemed enthusiastic. Sorta good. No Albert, in case you wondered.

by Donnio1234 on Apr 21, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Did you see how fat Rex looked?

I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!

by Tiller56 on Apr 21, 2011 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mallett

goes to the PATS and backs up brady for a few years – i can totalllly see it

by Kia.Area51 on Apr 20, 2011 4:13 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I was kind of thinking that also

Patriots have two first rounders… bastards

The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button

by Skins Fan '77 on Apr 20, 2011 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

i think

they’ll use one of their 2nd rounders on Mallett

they’ll go DL/OL/QB/WR mayyyybe RB

by Kia.Area51 on Apr 20, 2011 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

The problem with your argument is

McNabb can’t throw on the run. Or in the pocket. Standing. Sitting. On his back. Doggie style. He probably can’t even throw one back!!!

by brettpedigo on Apr 20, 2011 4:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Too Funny..

Not only is Mallett not a fit he’s a colossal douchebag. I’ve been saying it for months but who the fuck do you miss a meeting with a team. The spin will come but he NO DOUBT missed.

Eat crow jackwagons..

I consider myself a one man wolfpack..@Diesel__44 on twitter.

by Diesel44 on Apr 20, 2011 6:53 PM EDT reply actions  

*HOW not who

I sound like Mallett.

I consider myself a one man wolfpack..@Diesel__44 on twitter.

by Diesel44 on Apr 20, 2011 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great argument
Not only is Mallett not a fit he’s a colossal douchebag. I’ve been saying it for months but who the fuck do you miss a meeting with a team. The spin will come but he NO DOUBT missed. Eat crow jackwagons.

Great argument colonel kurtz. Comprehensive, analytical, and statistical. You covered all of your bases by leaning on gossip like a crutch and making up shit to support an argument with as much internal integrity as jenga blocks in a hurricane.

by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Apr 22, 2011 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jackwagon

nice word. I think R. Lee Ermey used it recently in a GEICO commercial, instead of some of his other famous words. Did you know that in Full Metal Jacket, “Gomer Pyle” was played by Vincent D’onofrio, AKA Detective Bobby Goren of the NYPD? He also played the alien bug in Men in Black.

by Donnio1234 on Apr 22, 2011 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

YES. And in other news Megan Fox is not ugly.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/25963/gruden-qb-camp-ryan-mallett

Click on the link and the video and try your best to like what comes out of Mallet’s pie hole.

I consider myself a one man wolfpack..@Diesel__44 on twitter.

by Diesel44 on Apr 23, 2011 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

I've been saying this for MONTHS. This isn't the first time or the last I'll call Mallett a douche bag.

I’m not going to repeat everything I’ve said in the last 6 months. So where is your non gossip and non made up shit that would support Mallett as being anything more than what I’ve said BEFORE the media piled on Mallett? You’re at the plate now..

I consider myself a one man wolfpack..@Diesel__44 on twitter.

by Diesel44 on Apr 23, 2011 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Diesel - I just wrote a long blurb explaining that I was not talking about you or Mallett, and

somehow deleted it. Frustrating. To be short – I was not talking about you or Mallett at all, I like the word, it made me chuckle, it’s not bad, and, in fact, rather clever. I thought Ermey’s GEICO commercial was funny, and “Jackwagon” was a way to sanitize his usual profane spiel. I don’t push Mallett anymore, I see that there’s a huge difference of opinion on him, among people who know a lot more than I do. Your opinion is valuable and noted, and you might be right, Mallett probably is a bit of an ass, maybe more than a bit (although I rather doubt he is a moron in the dictionary sense). I’ll let Shanahan figure it out. My little joke was off topic I guess, but was definitely very friendly.
By the way, I’m not a big Megan Fox fan. She strikes me as dumb as a bag of rocks, and not very nice at all (based on stuff coming out of the Transformers movie production).

by Donnio1234 on Apr 23, 2011 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

In response to your uncreative repetition of gossip any of us can read in the "rumor has it" section of ESPN

Case in Point 1: Mallett isn’t Mike Vick, but neither are Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Matt Hasselbeck, or Big Ben Roethlisburger. He can roll out & did successfully against SEC defenses, the most blistering & difficult for QBs to face in the NCAA
Case in Point 2: Has best arm strength in the draft
Case in Point 3: Has the best short-pass and intermediate-pass accuracy. On long-passes has the most energy in his throws and only needs to be taught to set his feet better.
Case in Point 4: Mallett’s stats. They don’t lie.
Case in Point 4A: Despite unforeseen betrayal by Michigan after Carr left & being shunted off by Rodriguez, being penalized a year for filing a transfer request to Arkansas, then going to a school where he was unfamiliar with the coach & personnel, he improved dramatically against the most potent defenses in college football – and he wasn’t face-crushed Byron Leftwich-style.
Case in Point 4B: Kyle Shanahan runs a modified West-Coast offense that is designed for big-plays instead of dink & dunks. If we draft Mallett in the 1st-round, we can build protection for him if we don’t repeat past mistakes & mortgage picks for trades and stick to a plan of drafting hogs over the next two years.
Case in Point 4C: Also, the Shanahans emphasize the running attack when big-play passes are not in the mix, and their typical stable of running backs will take pressure off of Mallett too.
Case in Point 5: Played in a pro-style offense under Bobby Petrino. The most daunting aspect of developing quarterbacks is getting them to get used to the pro-style. That’s already been done for us. All he would need to be taught would be to improve his legwork and setting his feet under pressure.
Case in Point 6: Compare his numbers to Locker’s stats. The numbers don’t lie, Locker is just not that great a prospect. He has the physique but not the ability. And regarding Locker’s superior rushing stats., it’s a lot easier running from PAC 10 defenses that in part helped Oregon blitz offensive #‘s like scalpels through butter on the sun. Which makes his passing stats that much less auspicious, and leads to 6A.
Case in Point 6A: Then couple that with the fact that Locker had a stable collegiate career where coaching turnovers & offensive philosophy revolutions didn’t force him to adjust to a new coach, adjust to new personnel & a new receiving corps, or adjust to a new conference like the SEC and its attendant best defenses in the country

And any concern about his athleticism is overblown. No he’s not going to outrun defenders, few QBs do. But he’s not totally inept. He can side-step a defender in the pocket and is a quite effective passer when rolling out. If you watch the video above, you’ll see a quarterback who can evade the rush a little bit and can pass the football with zip and accuracy on the run.
Case in Point 7: Has the best field vision of any QB in this draft. And in terms of “attitudinal” concerns, unless you go to BYU or Liberty, finding a normal college student athlete that hasn’t gotten drunk and/or smoked grass is easy tracking jackalopes. You find me a student that hasn’t experimented in college, which for 90% of people plays a key laboratory function in the proper socialization of emerging adults, and I’ll track you down a unicorn.

Case in Point 8: Most importantly in terms of intangibles, our team, the Washington Redskins are THE most uniquely endowed with the right veteran personnel to inoculate Mallett from any maturity growing pains. The way our team leaders like London Fletcher-Baker, Chris Cooley, Rocky McIntosh, and especially (and counter-intuitively) DeAngelo Hall – who’s been through growing pains before but found his path to righteousness in Washington, have handled so much in their careers, to most recently presenting a united front against Haynesworth & were in solidarity with Shanahan when they collectively showed Haynesworth who’s boss when he pouted, in a vacuum a team might give pause if they were young, developing, and dumb in terms of inexperience like the Bucs, but we don’t have that kind of makeup. We HAVE the personnel to groom this guy perfectly, from our players to our coaches.

That being said, all of this nonsensical smattering by a few nuts about picking Locker, much less Andy Dalton, is about the dumbest alternative I’ve read & there isn’t a single consistent NFL source that’s echoed drafting either of them as high as in the first 10 picks. Alternatively, GMs at the most consistently improved organizations (Patriots, Jeff Ireland & the Dolphins on-record) are showing interest at possibly picking him at a “steal” discount price if he fell to them.

So I ask you, since you’ve been uncreatively redundantly regurgitating everything the media parrots and repeats over & over without any innovation in argument at all, how about them apples. The discussion gets alot richer when you say more than what you heard ESPN talking heads say & read in virtually indistinguishable and unchanging pre-draft report analyses. No pick’s a sure thing – and there are arguments against him because of the intrinsic imperfection of almost any high draft pick, but you haven’t made any.

As such he’s as good a QB pick we’ll get a look at to build around in the near-future, especially if you contextualize our player personnel’s preparedness to help groom him and what he brings (cumulatively see above).

by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Apr 23, 2011 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not reading this.

I was ahead of the media..Ask anybody on this site

And Tanyon Sturtze was a marginal pitcher that’s been out of the league for 3 years.

I consider myself a one man wolfpack..@Diesel__44 on twitter.

by Diesel44 on Apr 23, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

You were ahead of the media? I don't see *anyone* giving you props for that here, bro

I think you’re just saying that because

A) you don’t have anything to say or add that’s genuinely your own innovative argument
B) Except to parrot what’s already been repeated ad nauseum by the talking heads on ESPN/SI

Literally, your argumentation is about as creative as state-radio in a third-world country I take your refusal to engage in several of the cases-in-point that I made that have not been the product of the talking head syndrome that seems like you’ve got a bad case of.

Namely, case-in-point #’s:

1) Case-in-Point 4
2) Case-in-point 4B
3) Case-in-Point 4C
4) Case-in-Point 5
5) Case-in-Point 6
6) Case-in-Point 6A
7) Case-in-Point 7
8) And most importantly the unique Case-in-Point 8

If you decide not to engage with others meaningfully with creative, un-redundant arguments against Mallett, I hope you enjoy your own personal echo chamber.

by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Apr 23, 2011 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

While I find your retorts mildly ammusing...

I was making a case for Mallett not being a franchise QB months before the talking heads..

I’m not going to recreate the wheel here, if you’d like, feel free to go back and read my comments from 3-5 months ago.

I consider myself a one man wolfpack..@Diesel__44 on twitter.

by Diesel44 on Apr 24, 2011 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, no question you were in the anti-Mallett camp early on

FYI, Pro Football Weekly now has him listed as the #8 QB in the draft. They have Stanzi at #4, behind Newton, Gabbert and Locker. Don’t know what to make of that.

by Donnio1234 on Apr 25, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

id rather have a mullet than a mallet

he stunk in his bowl game…completely rocked out of his mind and looked awful with a little pressure

by les boulez bomber on Apr 20, 2011 7:00 PM EDT reply actions  

So you just completely throw out his 2 years at Arkansas

and the gaudy #’s he put up in a pro-style system, for one bad bowl game? Really smart reasoning there.

I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!

by Tiller56 on Apr 23, 2011 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

+100. I'd say this was one of the worst arguments I've seen against Mallett, but then I saw Diesel's comments. They're 1A & 1B for the worst
He stunk in his bowl game

Such wonderful global analysis. Comprehensive, takes together his entire body of work and evaluates it comparatively. Accountable and analytically sound. Also very statistically accurate, no holes or outliers in that “les boulez bomber.”

LOL, you have got to be kidding me. There are innovative args. that can be made against any early-round draft pick, but it’s just embarrassing how redundant & argumentatively lazy some of the troupe of Mallett skeptics sound.

Literally, it’s either A) Parrot what 10 second blurb ESPN has said on Mallett’s pros/vs./cons and/or B) Parrot what SI has said in a blippy article that’s rehashed virtually the same extremely brief 30 second talking point ESPN had.

by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Apr 23, 2011 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mallett - late news

His agent said he really was sick, and supposedly went back to his room at 10PM (and he was with Julio Jones before that). I thought he did well in the bowl game, although he did throw one bad interception at a crucial time, according to the announcers because of a clever defensive shift. He is a big tough guy and great passer, tall and strong, and seems pretty mobile (watch Kevin’s clip above),

by Donnio1234 on Apr 20, 2011 9:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Isn't it nice to see our draft picks already forming a bond : )
(and he was with Julio Jones before that).

Are you not entertained?

by Tiller56 on Apr 21, 2011 7:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

oh no please

mallets stock is dropping faster then the economy he is not even going to be a first rounder. i would take trod taylor or kapernick before mallet = another david klingler.

lohaus #54

by lohaus#54 on Apr 21, 2011 9:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Kap we could discuss

Tyrod doesn’t belong in the conversation.

by tuckwell on Apr 21, 2011 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1
Tyrod doesn’t belong in the conversation.

The one consistent theme in all of the “I hate Ryan Mallett based on rumors and mostly (but not all) bad arguments” is that the alternatives proffered are utterly laughable. Jake Locker, Andy Dalton, Tyrod Taylor. Why don’t we just do ourselves a favor and forfeit the pick, at least we’ll save money on picking any of these dumb alt. suggestions.

by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Apr 22, 2011 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

On the other thread - the War Room draft by Parks

Mallett went in the top 15. In that exercise, we traded down a lot and by 56 (I think our second choice) all the top QBs were gone except Dalton, who we took. Everybody’s blowing smoke, so I don’t know what will happen. But Mallett’s physical ability may make him a top pick. He has many detractors, but the criticisms just don’t stick, maybe because they don’t make sense – aren’t believable. Like, how could he have accomplished so much, if he’s so stupid? And game clips show he is very mobile and can pass on the run. And he can move and pass in the pocket, partly because he is tall and strong. And virtually everybody agrees he is the best passer (arm and accuracy) in the draft. And he never failed a drug test. He could be a drinker, but probably not a drunk, yet.

by Donnio1234 on Apr 22, 2011 12:54 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

It seems to me that

There are more questions and smoke blowing in this draft than previous ones I’ve followed.

And I don’t just mean by the skins. Literally everything seems to be up in the air. Nothing would surprise come next weekend.

by tman5 on Apr 22, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's the same every year

Thats why I don’t follow all these mock drafts this time of the year. I go on game film 90% of the time in my evaluations. Combine and senior bowl is 10%.

I’ve seen Mallett play since he was a senior in high school, and I’ve always been amazed. I was even amazed in him as a true frosh at Mich. You could see the potential.

Ignore the rumore this time of the year. Go with what you know. If you don’t know much about a prospect, check out the film. It is the only telling truth.

I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!

by Tiller56 on Apr 23, 2011 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think you're right

The mock drafts don’t help much in rating players because many of the drafters don’t know anything about the players. The few by knowledgeable analysts may help indirectly by reflecting current wisdom about players’ abilities. But if you consider that “the game” is actually the draft itself, and you are trying to win the best players available, it’s very important what the other teams do. I.e., you can’t draft a guy if somebody else takes him first. So knowledge of what the other teams are going to do is vital in the draft game. But in deciding who we want to have play for us, it’s a lot better to watch the games and tapes, and decide for yourself. I’m sure Shanahan doesn’t sit there analyzing all the mock drafts. I think the teams handle this by making lists of who they want, then trying to play the draft game to get the best ones on their list. So talent evaluation is first, the draft game second. They have to play both “games” right.

by Donnio1234 on Apr 23, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Judge should grant the injunction (ending the lockout) Monday

but it’s not clear if she will “stay” the injunction, or stay it until the NFL appeals it to the Appeals Court, and how long that would take, or what. Nobody seems to know what’s going to happen, but all sides seem optimistic. If she ended the lockout Monday, and didn’t stay the injunction, I would think that it would leave about two days of free agency before the draft, unless everything stayed in limbo because the NFL could not implement any rules that fast. If I was betting, I’d guess we couldn’t get any trading done before the draft.

by Donnio1234 on Apr 22, 2011 10:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Fill me in a little on the "stay" thing Donnio

I’m a little behind on what could happen if she lifts the lockout. I though it would immediatly go to an appeal, which would mean it would stay in limbo until a further ruling is made.

Maybe you could dedicate a thread to this sort of thing, as I’m sure a lot of us are confused.

I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!

by Tiller56 on Apr 23, 2011 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup...

I was confused….and frustrated, so I have kind of been just taking a “wake me up when it’s over” attitude with the whole thing. But with time slipping by and the draft right around the corner I must admit I am getting itchy about it all again.

by MagicHat on Apr 23, 2011 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Love his arm

Don’t like his footwork. Yes he’s mobile and throws well on the run, but he seems to throw off his back foot or jump while passing. That could be fixed but those habits cause interceptions in the NFL. If we draft him, he should probably sit for a year at least to work on those habits but he’s got the talent so I wouldn’t be disappointed if we drafted him.

by Nobetterthenbob on Apr 22, 2011 11:10 PM EDT reply actions  

No one is sitting behind McNabb on the Skins

as long as that 10mill roster bonus is there. Just doesn’t make sense for the organization.

I got Tiger Blood running through my veins!

by Tiller56 on Apr 23, 2011 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Lockout, etc

I don’t know enough law to add much to known facts. After the union decertified, the owners declared a lockout, bringing everything to a halt. The players then sued the NFL on antitrust type grounds, and asked for an injunction to halt the lockout. Judge Nelson is expected to grant the injunction, enjoining (stopping) the lockout. If that is all that happened, or the NFL didn’t appeal, operations would resume, under rules devised by the owners, probably like last year’s rules, and presumably negotiations would start up again. We’d have football, at least temporarily.
     But the problem is that the NFL is widely expected to appeal the injunction of the lockout. Here’s where I get on shaky ground. I’m not sure if they first appeal to Judge Nelson, or immediately to the Federal Appeals Court. In either case, they would ask for a “stay” of the injunction, that is “hold” the injunction, continue the lockout, first from Judge Nelson, then, from the Appeals court if Judge Nelson turns them down. The stay basically just says, delay, or don’t enforce, your injunction until we can appeal. I don’t know how long it would take for the Appeals court to hear the NFL’s appeal – it could be months. One optimistic guess by me is that, given the reasons for granting the injunction in the first place (likely to win, irreparable harm), it doesn’t seem to make sense for Judge Nelson to grant the stay. And if she doesn’t, I don’t know how long it might take for the Appeals court to grant the stay. But based on the California gay marriage case, the courts can act pretty fast on stays and injunctions (presumably because they don’t have to decide the case to do those things – it’s a simpler decision, possibly made by one person). So I know vaguely what is going on, but don’t know the legalities of it, and don’t know what will happen, and when. I rather hope that the injunction will stay and football operations resume. I should say, Judge Nelson could surprise everybody and deny the injunction, and, presumably just proceed to try the case.
  Nobody knows what would happen if the injunction was granted, stopping the lockout, in terms of the sides negotiating. Would the negotiations start up again? Would either side be more conciliatory? I had earlier thought that the union was happy with the status quo (due to money), but it coming out that a lot of the players are not happy with the current rules, which are better for the stars than the rank and file.

by Donnio1234 on Apr 24, 2011 9:58 PM EDT reply actions  

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