Combine: Todd Haley & Scott Pioli Shed Light on Evaluating QBs
I'll be spreading out my combine notes the rest of the week. There's still a lot to cover in regards to the players, but I found Chiefs' Head Coach, Todd Haley, and Chiefs General Manager, Scott Pioli's media presser equally interesting. Both of them were quite candid on what they look for when recruiting a QB and also speak quite highly of Jim Zorn. (Jim Zorn is a laughing stock to all of us, but the improvement in Jason Campbell statistics are undeniable). Pioli also answers the golden question on how to evaluate players, particularly QBs, that come from a spread offense and the importance of speed on a team, which the Redskins were/are easily ranked 32nd in.
How do you evaluate Quarterbacks?
Pioli: "From my standpoint, accuracy is the most important visible attribute and their ability to avoid the rush and just a general pocket presence and pocket sense, which really doesn't have anything to do with true overall athletic ability. It's a combination of athletic ability and sense. The other thing for a quarterback is to be a leader, just their overall makeup and their style. You'd like your best players and most important players to be your hardest working players. It's not only work ethic but it's work habits."
Todd Haley: The leadership of the team. Are you able to close the deal and win games when it counts? What separates quarterbacks in this league is that ability. Those guys that win Super Bowls aren't on the top of the list statistically but they make the plays when they have to be made. They have the full trust of their teammates and the coaching staff. That's a hard thing to measure and I know that's why it's a hard position to evaluate. Coach Parcells said to be long ago if you find a guy that can evaluate quarterbacks and be right, hire him and pay him whatever you've got to pay him. It's a tough job. You can't measure it.
So, we can cross Locker of the board on two of these 3 categories (accuracy, pocket presence, leadership) and Cam Newton in all 3. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be opposed to Locker as a project QB, but not with our first two draft picks.
Does the popularity of the spread offense make it tougher to judge players at a number of positions?
Pioli: "Yeah. If you talk to some of the quarterbacks and the centers who operate out of the spread offense . . . and it's always a shotgun snap, some of these kids in previous years it's the first time they've had the center-quarterback exchange. Not only the quarterback but the center. The center had to learn how to move out of it, block out of it and how to balance himself. That's been a problem previously. It's been interesting to talk to a couple of kids here, both centers and quarterbacks, who have been in those systems. They're actually working with people who teach them the quarterback-center exchange."
What qualities do you look for in a QB coach?
Pioli: "It's got to be someone who really pays attention to the position. We were fortunate to get Jim Zorn hired. I don't think it's an absolute necessity to have been a player at a certain position to coach the position. But I think in that position particularly because it's a very unique position with some very unique pressures and circumstances, having someone who has had experience playing not only in college but beyond college can do a better job of coaching that position."
Is a good QB coach hard to find?
Pioli: "Yeah. I've heard people say, head coaches or general managers who are running franchises and don't have quarterback coaches, there are times when they won't hire someone just to hire one because they don't want to screw a quarterback up. Unless they can get a really good one, they'd rather not have one."
Has Jim Zorn had a chance to sit down and meet with Matt Cassel yet?
Haley: "When we interviewed, part of that interview I got Jim and Matt together...They spent a good hour or so together watching tape and that was really positive."
The importance of having speed...
Pioli: "We needed to upgrade our team speed because I think when we first got there it was certainly the slowest football team I've been a part of. Not just on offense, not just on defense but on special teams (too)."
I think every Redskins fan recalls how slow our special teams has been the last several years, ESPECIALLY before Brandon Banks arrived. The WRs, RBs, DEs, LBs - there truly is a lack of speed across the board.
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The Speed Issue:
I think every Redskins fan recalls how slow our special teams has been the last several years, ESPECIALLY before Brandon Banks arrived. The WRs, RBs, DEs, LBs – there truly is a lack of speed across the board.
The DE’s(since we run a 3-4) shouldn’t be lumped into this catagory. Haslett likes 6’ 4" – 6’ 6", 300-330 lbs guys at his DE’s. Their not going to be the fastest guys in the world. As for our OLB’s, Rak is very athletic, and has good speed for the position. Wilson and Jackson are also pretty fast OLB’s. LoAx is our one exception, but now, with the new body make-up, that could change.
As for the WR’s and RB’s, I’ve been preaching this for months, but all people want are more slow linemen. People have argued that WR’s are RB’s are the least important position on our team. They are also the same people who want to keep Grossman as a QB, re-sign a soon-to-be 32 year old Moss, and think Torain is the next comming of Stephen Davis.
Well folks, here’s a dose of reality: Mr Pioli is right. Speed kills. We too need to upgrade our speed, as I believe we are the slowest offensive football team in the league.
Then, here’s the guy who says: But, if we improve our offensive line by using our first two draft picks on linemen, our shitty, below average QB(who we seem to always have) will have more time to throw the ball to our shitty, below average, old WR’s. And our pedestrian RB’s will have better success running behind that same O-Line. GREAT! Instead of averaging 4.1 yards per carry, they can now average 4.3 yards per carry. Still, fact remains, they probably wont have a run longer than 25 yards, and why is that? Because their slow as shit!
No weapons = No Championships
But I guess most Redskins fans are fine with the idea of being below average AGAIN for the next decade!
Lets go draft Cam Jordan and Danny Watkins. Our team will be fuc*&^% great!
Are you not entertained?
You can argue all day, but you need both.
Look at the Texans they have a good QB, the NFL’s leading rusher, and arguably the best WR in the league, and where did that get them?
I think most people are advocating building the core and the trenches up first then go after some weapons later in the draft, free agency, or in the coming years. You can have DeSean Jackson, Cam Newton, etc. but if there is no one there to protect them and stop the other team from scoring then it doesn’t work.
You’d be hard pressed to find a successful team in the NFL that just went after “weapons” (cough, cough Oakland) and was immediately successful without building up the trenches and core of the team first.
by Parks Smith on Mar 3, 2011 8:49 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Of course you have this mentality
Nice talking to ya! Don’t you have a client to meet with or something?
And please, don’t respond to this
Are you not entertained?
He's right.
You need both, and one takes longer to gel and develop than the other (hint: not the speed weapons). Draft the lines first, then add the weapons. Linemen will play better, longer on average than RBs and most WRs.
by tuckwell on Mar 3, 2011 9:09 AM EST up reply actions 9 recs
Rec'd.
Dear Passionate fan, I know you are passionate, but please reply with a logical answer or I will ignore you.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Mar 3, 2011 9:17 AM EST up reply actions
I am sure glad you posted this comment....
I really didn’t want to agree/rec Parks!! (j/k Parks, gave you rec as well)
hey, its a good comment,
I couldn’t agree more, and Houston and Oakland are perfect examples. We are still at least a two year project (at least). While we made some strides in some areas, we really set ourselves back in others….Like the most important position on offense (Mc Nabb) and defense AH at NT)
We need explosive players (of which speed is a part) AND better lines
You talk like our OL is adequate which is way off – our OL is horrible (especially at center). How many sacks have we allowed in the past few years…something like a bazillion? And what QB is going to perform well in that environment?
We need to improve pretty much everywhere so what I want is some players who pan out – at this point we have so many needs and we’ve had so many FA and draft busts that we’re thin everywhere.
Our bust rate is hurting us far more than what type of players we’re trying to draft. We’ve drafted/signed plenty of WR’s in the last decade – most of whom have been busts – and very few OL which is why our OL needs upgrading.
The first step for a player is quickness, not necessarily top speed. Logan Mankins is not the fastest OL even in the 10 yard distance.
The CBS Sports file now includes Combine information.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings?&print_rows=9999
Danny Watkins’ 40 yard, 20 yard, and 10 yard times were 5.36, 2.97,and 1.82 seconds.
Phil Taylor’s respective times were 5.09, 2.87, and 1.77.
Logan Mankins 5.06, 3.00, and 1.85
Trent Williams 4.81, 2.81, and 1.70
Selvish Capers 5.11, 2.81, and 1.74
Bruce Campbell 4.75, 2.76, and 1.70
Kory Lichtensteiger 5.25, 2.98, and 1.75
by Jefferson1935 on Mar 3, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
Kevin did you unearth a CBA violation, haha
“When we interviewed, part of that interview I got Jim and Matt together…They spent a good hour or so together watching tape and that was really positive.”
It's only a violation if it happens tomorrow
(assuming there isn’t an agreement/extension)
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
God I hope they at least get an extension done
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Is this just your own ranking?
the importance of speed on a team, which the Redskins were/are easily ranked 32nd in.
Yea, it's a subjective ranking
But the age of our roster is my big thing. Pre B.Banks it was Rock Cartwright, Phillip Buchanon…old DE’s (even in the 4-3), old LBs…WRs that are aging…old RBs…
When’s the last time you remember a Redskins play where the WR or RB outran defenders? Portis’ first carry as a Redskin?
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
But ARE
had the fastest fair catch hand wave I’ve ever seen. It was out of his pocket almost pre-snap. :)
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Mar 3, 2011 10:01 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
He always had that arm locked and loaded. He would have made a gunslinger.
I consider myself a one man wolfpack..
What about outrunning our own players?
One of my favorite highlights from this past year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvhrO3ceO7U
Nice article!
Love the insite from Mr P.
And I remember watching our team last year, especially the offense and just seeing how slow they appeared compared to other teams I would watch. I don’t know for sure but it just appeared like our team was SLOW. I never felt like we were going to break a short underneath route for a td or that our rb’s were ready to run away with something.
So yeah, that speed thing does need to change. As for the lineman vs skill guys debate, it doesn’t really matter. Like other have said, you need one for the other. Lots of work to be done. Everyone does understand we’re going to suck again this year no matter what rabbits shanahan pulls out of his pants? Hopefully we’ll see some progress…
The Beat Box aka skins secondary.
It seems like
the slower you are on offense the closer defensive backs and LBs can play to their man and the slower you are on defense the farther away you have to play. Sounds like lose-lose to me.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Well that's your interpretation of his unhappiness
And I think Mike Shanahan is the proven head coach that marks the end of dysfunction. No more Vinny, no more Danny intervention.
I agree
But Carson Palmer is done with the organization. It may have nothing to do with the head coach.
What I’m saying is most of our dysfunction left with Vinny. Now we’re finding the quality players to set the right team culture. I think Carson is a strong fit.
I hope thats true but it seems like the McNabbgate and AH caused plenty of dysfunction this past year.
Haynesworth was an inherited problem though
I wonder how much, if any, interaction Mike Shanahan has had with Carson Palmer. Maybe in the 2003 draft…? I think that would outweigh any historical problems our franchise has had over the past decade.
Ken has a chubby for this and is drafting some post now....
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Mar 3, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Spoiler Alert: He throws Albert in the deal.
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Mar 3, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Haha. Unload all our problems at once.
Try and get Rey Maualuga too. Quote from Mike Zimmer:
“He sure has to play a hell of a lot better than he did this year because he was extremely average,” Zimmer said of Maualuga, who will enter his third year in 2011.
“He’s undisciplined. Half of our whole defensive team is undisciplined.”
I'm in a youtube posting mood today.
LJP style. This is a sweet mic’d up of Rey against the Bucs.
I loved him coming into the draft when we got Orakpo. He’d be awesome next to LFB on the inside.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMfnRThqAeY
umm wouldn't Rey add to our problems?
He isn’t exactly an upstanding citizen
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Are you referring to his DUI?
It might sound bad, but I don’t put that in the same category as assault/theft/etc character-wise.
He does charity work in the community too.
have we really gotten to the point
where we can sit here and tell ourselves that a DUI “ain’t that bad?”
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
by Rekka on Mar 3, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No
But if you look around the league, a lot of players are charged with DUI.
I’m saying if you’re evaluating their character based on legal history, DUI is better than assault or theft or murder…
Sean Taylor was charged with a DUI
So was Byron Westbrook
I think of it as a lapse in judgment over a character concern that should be completely avoided. Unless, of course, it happens more than once.
yes and Rey was arrested and had the charges dropped in college for
battery, had other team violations due to alcohol. His DUI wasn’t some .09 ranking, while pulled over for speeding, he plowed some chicks car into parked cars and was more than twice the legal limit. He’s had other additional incidents where he displayed bad judgement, and reportedly scored just 15 on the wonderlic test and didn’t know who VP Joe Biden was.
You can’t call Haynesworth and Co. a team cancer, and Rey Rey a choir boy.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
A choir boy?
The most praise I gave Rey was:
I don’t put [DUI] in the same category as assault/theft/etc character-wise.
Pioli is right on
That is exactly how QBs should be evaluated. Accuracy/pocket presence/leadership, not necessarily in that order. Notice how arm strength is really not one of the key attributes. All QBs in the NFL draft have competent arms. Sure some QBS can wow people with an 80 yard bomb from their knees, but that’s not what wins football games. Just ask Jeff George. Anyway, if we are diligent in evaluating these 3 attributes, we may be able to snag a QB later in the draft who is capable of developing into a future starter. The guys projected for the 1st and 2nd rounds of this NFL draft do not wow me in the 3 primary areas identified by pioli. Hoping the Redskins try to find a sleeper later in the draft at the QB position.
Yup, accuracy and if possible more accuracy
The most athletic quarterback seldom ever does anything in this league unless he is accurate.
Can we all get off the damn cam Newton train now?
And those that know the position no you cannot teach accuracy at this stage, if they haven’t learned it by now it isn’t going to happen
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button

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