Redskins Special Teams to Blame?
Just over a month ago I wrote an article asking "Is Danny Smith to Blame?". From the article I received a lot of interesting feedback from Hogs Haven members and even players like Lorenzo Alexander who adamantly defended his coach. But after watching the game again today I have to ask myself... is Danny Smith to blame? He may very well be a good coach, but would a change in personnel help the Redskins. Special Teams clearly cost the team the game today versus the Jets and here's why:
1) The biggest decision that killed the Redskins was the pooch kick after Graham Gano took the lead, which the Jets returned to mid-field. Dan Fouts and Ian Eagle presented the kick as a miss-kick from Gano, but as Grant Paulsen reported after the game, the kick was by design:
Multiple members of Redskins special teams unit said Gano's kickoff was indeed designed to be short. Dragged foot & prevented hang-time.
I don't get it? Why pooch? Who scares you on the Jets special teams? Especially an offense that had sputtered throughout the game.
2) Brandon Banks: This is nearly a weekly post for me, but come on Brandon! He had a good return during the end, but negating that one return in garbage time, he again struggled to get it past the 20 yard line. He also had that terrible, negative punt return that Rex and company were able to overcome. And what about Banks' fumble where he didn't even pursue it? This guy needs to go, but I realize he will likely be here the rest of the year.In short, there were several ST decisions today that had me scratching my head and I think Danny Smith may be at fault. Sometimes, no matter how good a coach is, there has to be a change. Smith may not be working with the best personnel, but it's personnel he's asked for and defended. A straight line returner would benefit this team. Gano booming it straight through the endzone, as he has done so many times this year, would've benefited this team.
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Yes Banks!
The value in Banks has lost it’s value, he needs to go
ST coaching change, yes because a change needs to occur
yes gano and banks need to go after this season but...
the special teams coverage is not to blame. I think we all know the root of our problems.
If Smith calls for a pooch then how is the coverage not to blame on a slow, white dude?
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i hear ya but i think he is way way down the list of growing problems.
by davetrembling on Dec 4, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
Doesn't matter man, it's decision making when you're actually up in a semi-meaningful game
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Mike shanahan
Said that the kick was not by design and that he hit the ground first before the ball. So….
Duck Fallas!!
by believe_the_curse on Dec 4, 2011 6:12 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Well the players say otherwise, so...
Pick who you believe
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I want to see some quotes from players and also shanny
Does bullshit everything but I still don’t think Danny smith should be fired
Duck Fallas!!
by believe_the_curse on Dec 4, 2011 6:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Did you see the Grant Paulsen quote? Is he not credible?
I doubt he attribute individuals.
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I said I want to see player quotes
But of course he is credible but thanks atltruth for getting everything straight haha
Duck Fallas!!
by believe_the_curse on Dec 4, 2011 6:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
idk fellas i think that danny smith has done a good job
I for one hate gano but Danny ST hasent been bad IMO. We do a pretty good job of stopping the other teams from making big plays on ST too. And I gave up on banks pretty much
by no more kwame's in dc on Dec 4, 2011 6:14 PM EST via mobile reply actions
But Smith is backing Gano and Banks?
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What else is he supposed to do?
West Springfield Spartans OUTSIDE LB #47
HTTR
by SpartanFS47 on Dec 4, 2011 6:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Get new guys and move on.
Somehow other NFL teams can find a legit kicker, but who has been recycling them for the past 10 years? And who is the constant?
It’s pretty clear to me that Banks isn’t a very good football player. Why is he still here? There are other guys on the roster you can utilize that would be better.
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Suisham wasnt bad
And Paul should definetly be returner.
West Springfield Spartans OUTSIDE LB #47
HTTR
by SpartanFS47 on Dec 4, 2011 6:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Exactly, so why your question?
I’m not saying Smith should be fired, all I’m saying is he should be questioned. I understand the clear problems with this team and what needs to be fixed. But this team could’ve won today with good ST and that could be said about a lot of games under Shanny’s tenure.
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What? Suisham sucked
We can’t find a good QB or kicker. It’s like a curse
Shut up DHall.
by 64ShagginWagon on Dec 4, 2011 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
Suisham was solid, he had one or two bad games (Saints game)
The Steelers aren’t complaining.
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I never cared for him
He didn’t have that it factor or enough power in my opinion.
Shut up DHall.
by 64ShagginWagon on Dec 4, 2011 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
Def wasn't pretty
Suisham >> Gano
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I just want to be confident in our kicker
It’s been too long.
Shut up DHall.
by 64ShagginWagon on Dec 4, 2011 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
No shit, I'd give my left nut for someone like Bironas
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and Heinz is far tougher to kick in than Fedex
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
horseshoe effect
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yeah kicking into that open endzone is a nightmare
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
u might call my crazy
but i think we are cursed by the idians… if snyder woulda changed our names or gave them 100 million instead of fat albert we wouldnt have such a black cloud over our heads. there is alot of luck involved in football and it all goes against us!! just look a suisham, when we had him anything over 30 yards we had to hold our breath. he goes to the steelers and he is 10 times better in a much harder place to kick. ok pre season. gano went againsy a guy with a much better % made. that guy goes 0-3 and is released. giving gano the job… then the first cowboys game. the center snapped it over romos head about 5 times and the ball went right to romo. late in the game when rex got sacked and fumbeled it the ball bounces really fast right to a cowboy with 3 redskins around him.
Is this serious or just a very imaginative troll job?
UVA and Virginia Tech students have a lot in common. We were all accepted to Virginia Tech.
i agree
On banks and gano. And I also know that theyplay a big role on the ST but I also look at the positives. Such as how good sav has been and how we haven’t given any big plays up. And he could move on with other players and I would like to see Paul take over returns for our team
by no more kwame's in dc on Dec 4, 2011 6:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
oh and banks unforced fumble he had
Unacceptable
by no more kwame's in dc on Dec 4, 2011 6:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That's happened many times this year and he's gotte away with it.
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i know its bullshit
That’s one thing Danny has really been doing terrible this year. Put in someone who will make a play when there’s one to be made AND one that will take a touchback when there isn’t. I want to see Paul back there. IA that to much to ask?
by no more kwame's in dc on Dec 4, 2011 7:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think that wound be a mistake
What we need now is to stop switching punters and kickers every two years and gained some continuity-whether or not that consistency is above average.
(So what is the sarcasm font again?)
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Dec 5, 2011 9:31 AM EST up reply actions
we stop teams but we have awful returns, I blame the coverage units, not banks…But seeing as how they’re unwilling/unable to block for him Banks is redundant.
What??? They block for Banks...
In the back
UVA and Virginia Tech students have a lot in common. We were all accepted to Virginia Tech.
by Jeff Bernard on Dec 5, 2011 9:14 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Send a message by firing Smith
Not only has specials cost a game today. Every week for awhile its seemed that Danny Smith’s side of the ball has had at least one major breakdown.
You don’t coach only special teams forever without either being promoted…or let go….unless you are Danny Smith.
Shanny should send a message by not waiting till the offseason to fire his special teams coach. He should do it tomorrow with the explanation “We need more consistency from special teams and felt that between the kicking game, the kick blocking game, the kickoff game, etc”
@AEEckert
by AEE on Dec 4, 2011 6:33 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I think we should probably fire the offensive coordinator first
As that unit has been much worse overall than special teams
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Dec 5, 2011 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah but that should be on Mike not Kyle
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Hey, our special teams isn't all bad
Before today (was he having an off day?) our punter was/is the best player on the team.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
Stop watching the ball
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Nevermind, can't judge a ST coach or unit by their punter haha
pun on Kirwans book “Take Your Eye off the Ball”
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Obviously
He’s one player. I’m just saying that yes, most of our special teams unit is… terrible. But one of the only bright spots this season has been our punter, who’s on ST. I actually think he’s saved the Redskins more times than any other player because he’s so good at pinning teams deep.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
I agree with Sav, but doesn't give the unit a pass in my mind.
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I completely agree.
But I’m just pointing out that a player on special teams has had more positive impact than any other player on the field (perhaps excluding RyKer).
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
I've been banging the FIRE Danny Smith drum for years.
Players come and go and yet he stays. Gano could kick the ball out of the endzone everytime BUT Smith likes the directional kicks (challenging and leads to KOs OB) and pouch kicks. Smith called for 2 pouch kicks today and they were costly.
@Callahan_9 on the twitter machine.
I thought Danny needed to go after last week.
Bryant had two blocks coming into last weeks game. You think they would pay a little better attention to the guy. We have had far to many miscues in certain aspects of ST.
I wonder if our punter wasn’t so Fing good how our punt coverage team would be.
I can’t stand Banks. He should have been gone by the bye week. Patrick Peterson was interviewed last week about his returns and he said he learned a long time ago to catch the ball and head up field. None of this dancing around bullshit. That barely ever works. Banks is luck he hasn’t given up more fumbles.
Shut up DHall.
by 64ShagginWagon on Dec 4, 2011 7:03 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
hahaha the cowturds lost
Because garret iced his own kicker hahaha
by no more kwame's in dc on Dec 4, 2011 7:26 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I don't like the call...but let's be accurate...
I don’t get it? Why pooch? Who scares you on the Jets special teams? Especially an offense that had sputtered throughout the game.

See the team the number 1 guy plays for? And while we are at it, how about number 3?
And maybe I was watching a different game, but what did Banks do wrong today?
I saw a reverse, a bunch of fair catches, and maybe 1 return that didn’t get back to the 20?
Parks-Can you provide clarification for on your specific complaints today beyond the pooch? Seems like everyone is reaching for excuses.
Here is the excuse. We are not good and we don’t have a QB or and O-Line or a Number 1 receiver or a good cover corner or a safety worth two cents.
Can we discuss that?
(BTW-I would have kicked to Hester there…can’t give away a short field)
by DavidDunn on Dec 4, 2011 7:53 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
bad post
Yards? That’s a product of chances not average or ability. Taking the ball out from 8 yds deep and not making it to the 20 is a NEGATIVE play.
@Callahan_9 on the twitter machine.
by Diesel44 on Dec 4, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
The post was about McKnight...not Banks
and the part about Banks was referring to today…
and yds are yds…that is the official NFL Stat. Tell them if you disagree with the statistic used to evaluate Kickoff Returners.
Any thoughts on the topic of the comment? Not whether or not it is a good idea to take it out of the endzone, which you nor I have any idea as to whether that is Banks or Smith’s choice.
by DavidDunn on Dec 4, 2011 8:42 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yards are Yards. Yes.. but it's about productive yards and not negative plays.
Nevermind, carry on.
@Callahan_9 on the twitter machine.
and you are saying McKnight's yds weren't productive?
Based on what?
Is there a productive yds statistic? If you have some new stat I would love to see it. And I would be interested in where the Jets rank.
In case you don’t feel like looking it up…our average drive start position is 11th in the NFL. NYJ is 6th. (LOS/DR (rank))

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats
Not exactly what you are referring to…but where is the Productive Yds stat? Or are you only going by your “eye”?
Listen stat boy.
My point was that Bank’s total YDs was misleading. That is it.
@Callahan_9 on the twitter machine.
by Diesel44 on Dec 4, 2011 9:18 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Based on what? We are 11th in avg starting position?
That is not the end all be all stat, but my question is what are you basing your assertion on? You apparently have discounted the official NFL stat for kick returns, and the advanced stat for average LOS/DR…so when you say Banks Total YDs are misleading and lead with the subject “bad post”, I don’t think it is out of bounds to simply try to find out your factual basis? Or are you just espousing a personal opinion?
Not sure why this is a stat in favor of Banks?
It appears that a good defense goes a long way to starting field position.
And if you looked further at Football Outsiders you’ll see we rank quite low in the return game http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst
We rank 3rd worst among KO returners, and 18th worst in punt returns, both negative point values.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Dec 4, 2011 10:20 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
thank you for providing a response to my
question…that is a reasonable response…I am looking into how that stat is calculated now…
Using the stat you provided…the Jets are the number 2 kick return team behind Minnesota….which was the original point of my response until we started questioning what the term productive yds means…
and regarding Banks on punts…unless my math is wrong 18th worse is 14th best, right? Is that supposed to be an issue?
I don’t really care that much about Banks. My point is he doesn’t seem like the biggest issue to me…seems like we have much bigger issues and the focus on Banks and Smith seems odd.
18th worst is 18th worst
Or 18th best
Shut up DHall.
by 64ShagginWagon on Dec 4, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
they rank 18th in the league in punt returns, so two below the middle of the pack
and even if it was middle of the pack it is pretty clear that PR’s aren’t a high percentage play since so many are in the negative department.
and I agree with your original point about McKnight being dangerous, but I wouldn’t have pouched it. Our coverage unit has shut him down and even if you just kick it deep (non directional to not risk an OB kick) you force him to try to return it 8 or 9 yards deep. Even if he gets his 34 yard average they are at the 25.
That being said I think you are well off on the productive yards argument. Banks’ average is a joke. If it was counted like a punter he’d be well down, b/c so many of his returns are from 5-9 yards deep and very few reach beyond the 25 (and many are short of the 20).
Banks isn’t a big issue, but it’s also the easiest to fix. Cut him and bring up Robinson so he can actually help on offense and have Paul return kicks.
Those simple fixes aren’t out there for QB or OL or any of the other issues. I think Parks’ point is the fact that this has been an issue all season, and there is no accountability (not that there is much on this team ex. Brown still starting).
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Unless I'm mistaken it was Cromartie on the Pooch kick return
He’s more dynamic then McKnight and most likely the reason for the pooch.
Shut up DHall.
by 64ShagginWagon on Dec 4, 2011 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
that could be i was at the game and wasn't paying full attention and i forgot to tape the game
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
I am not sure what you are arguing?
First, thanks for the correction on 18th worst. I misread your intent.
On the pooch…we are both saying the same thing. The Jets return game could justify the play call, but we would have not relied on stats and kicked the ball deep. No disagreement there.
On the productive yards discussion, my point was find me a stat to show it. Don’t just assert it. You found something that could reasonably provide it a rationale. I could care less about whether Banks stays or goes. But acting like replacing him is the difference in the season is silly.
no one is saying he's the difference in the season
but ST’s have been bad and we can’t keep whitewashing them and pretending that they aren’t part of the issue.
I’m in full agreement that at best we might have 1 more win due to a proper ST unit, but my biggest issue is the lack of accountability (and again with most of the team).
and as for the stats unfortunately no one has showed a return yardage statistic that didn’t include all the endzone yards, but if you look up each game you can figure it out, and it is quite clear that Banks is costing us, and his 23.3 return average is pretty pathetic.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
That was funny.
My give a damn broke.
by davesomethin on Dec 5, 2011 9:26 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Stop being an idiot !
Banks always takes the ball out of the endzone . If the ball is 8 yards deep , and he gets to the 15 yard line , his stats show a 23 yard return . If you do that on 4 kickoffs per game , and 4 punts per game , your stats show 178 return yards . The fact is you still added 5 yards of field to every off. pos. In fact you have effectively lost 40 yards for your team .
idiot doesn't help your argumentt
Parks specifically discussed todays game not the season in the comment I replied to. If you are going to jump in a conversation, at least read the comments you are replying to.
hahahahaha
Banks is 3rd b/c he routinely returns from 5+ yards out of the endzone. Does Joe McKnight scare you? Does he scare anyone else? Banks is a solid PR but horrible KR. 1 TD from Joe McKnight is scaring everyone? Kick it deep and let him get 34 yards, we’re still better off.
Here is the excuse. We are not good and we don’t have a QB or and O-Line or a Number 1 receiver or a good cover corner or a safety worth two cents.
Cool well kick it deep and let the Jets drive. Defense was stellar and the Jets had drove once, what makes you think they would’ve been able to do so from the 20 versus the 50
Parks-Can you provide clarification for on your specific complaints today beyond the pooch? Seems like everyone is reaching for excuses.
Do you really need this? How about starting from within the 20 3 or 4 times? Banks terrible punt return, anyone can name several issues.
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You can't just make stuff up Parks and not expect to get called on it
Not sure what game you were watching, but the one I saw at the stadium didn’t have us starting inside the twenty on kickoffs… There statistics are recorded you know???

The first at the 18 the ball was caught on the goal line…and the last one at the 18 was caught at the 2? What is the complaint? 2 yards while trying to make a play? Seems like a heck of a reach to me? Are you saying he should let those bounce and take his chances? Again, not exactly traditional ST concepts.
The one on the 14 was a punt.
So we started inside the 20 twice at the 18? That is the reason to fire Danny Smith? Huh?
or are you trying to blame Banks for letting punts drop or fair catch between the 10-20? Not exactly standard ST concepts if that is what you are implying…
And Banks trying to use his speed to cross the field is not Danny Smiths fault…it is Banks trying to make a play…not sure how that turns Smith into a horrible coach?
I call em like I see em, and this game isn’t the one to get upset about S Teams…others, yeah…but this one had one bad call. We can discuss that, but the other stuff seems odd to me. We have much bigger issues.
by DavidDunn on Dec 4, 2011 8:58 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Actually here is where you miss on your point
At least 2 of the Jets kick offs were short kicks. One was to the ten which Banks returned to the 20 the other was about the same. I’d have to rewatch to tell you exactly what drives it was but it happened. i know this because all of us on the game threads commented on it.
The point isn’t Banks, it’s the decision making. Banks is a bad decision. He has one job on this team and he doesn’t do it well. He should have at least 2 return TDs at this point to justify his spot.
Also on the pooch kick it was Cromartie returning not McKnight. Cromartie is a hell of a returner and is one to fear. He stopped returning when he became a more established CB.
Shut up DHall.
by 64ShagginWagon on Dec 4, 2011 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not sure what point I am missing...
reread the thread….I think you missed the context…my reply was in response to a direct assertion by Parks about “How about starting from within the 20 3 or 4 times?”…
And, my point is we don’t know who is telling him to come out of the end zone.
Send Banks packing if you want…but guess what…that wouldn’t change our record one bit…which is my main point…and my second point is that today wasn’t the day to get upset with Banks because he had to return almost every kick.
talk about other games if that is the point people want to make…
I got the context don't worry about that
Banks has actually said in interviews that Smith tells him when to take it out. So there is that.
You don’t know if cutting Banks and having a different returner back there would change our record. Just like I can’t say for sure it would. But when your team starts inside their own 20 3 or 4 times a game it will affect the psyche of the team. Also maybe a different returner takes it to the house and win us a close game or two. Don’t know but food for thought. We are a world full of hypotheticals.
Last but not least this isn’t a one game issue this is a season long problem. So we do talk about the whole and not the parts.
Shut up DHall.
by 64ShagginWagon on Dec 4, 2011 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough on your points...but Parks response
was about today…and that is how this subthread got started…
BTW-In the interviews, did he say he signals him during the kick…or before the kick?
That would answer a bunch of questions in this thread. A lot of the arguments are explicitly about Bank’s decision making which could be contradicted based on the information you are reporting.
It's all inter-connected, what don't you get?
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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In fairness McKnight scares me a bit
but when the did kick to him deep the coverage was good, so why not keep doing that. And If you don’t like that I’m guessing like always Graham can kick it either out of the end zone or 8 yards deep and I’d take my chances with that.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
How about the return where he ran backwards across the field?
The major problem with Banks, though, is he’s not contributing anywhere else on the field. for all the 3 yard returns and fair catches we could have easily put a young WR (who will go out and run routes later) or a young defensive back out there. He’s not worth a roster spot to just fair catch or fail to return the ball to the 20.
I don't believe that Banks would continue to bring it out from five yards deep unless he is being told to.
Either Danny Smith or Mike Shanahan could stop Banks from continually not taking a knee but obviously neither has. It is either a coaching decision or a lack of control (doubtful).
He brought out 1 time today from the goalline that didn't make it past the 20
What is the complaint? What am I missing? Are we imagining things?
yeah special teams is the least of our probelms...
its the coaching staff… think its time mike told kyle to go some where else.
yeah today wasn't the issue about bringing it out deep
but he’s just bad. I mean we keep both a 53 and 46 man roster spot for him each week and this is all that he does and he’s not that good at it.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
You do realize we've played 12 games this year?
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that's happening all over the league
look how many 100+ yard returns there have been, teams have decided it’s worth trying to make a play on the KO return rather than succumb to the rule change
Special Teams has been trash for a while.
Some one look up the stats for which team gives up the most blocked FG attempts. It has to be the Redskins. Danny Smith was the only competent coach under the Zorn regime but now it’s just pathetic. It all started a year ago during the Tampa Bay game.
Brandon Banks continues to look more and more like Antwann Randel El. I tried to defend Banks but he is just not worth it. He brings nothing to the table.
chalk another lose up to kyle shanahan...
when in the world do u stop running the ball. then do no play action passing? helu was tearing them up. use play action off it. i mean how hard can it be kyle??? he has to go imo or we are in for another long season next year..
Key Stat 1st Half - 20 Passes 11 Runs (3 in the last 2 mins)
Maybe I was dreaming when I saw Helu running anywhere he wanted to?
Nice job Kyle.
I assume we are just throwing games at this point…err…evaluating players. Otherwise, Kyle and Mike have some splainin to do…
OKay but Helu had 23 total carries so that means he ran more in the 2nd half than the 1st half right?
UVA and Virginia Tech students have a lot in common. We were all accepted to Virginia Tech.
we're just a shitty team, plenty of blame to go around
but the most obvious thing is that Rex really does suck and that a good qb might have put up 30+ pts today. We need that qb, everything else is minor in comparison
85% of our losses
are from bad game planning and bad play calling… like i said before. damn shanahan cant even have a losing season right. and no one can tell me he planned to win this year with grossmen and beck as our only options at qb. why would u bring a team into a season with a goal of 8-8 thats pretty much the max u can get out of rex at this point. and poor beck may never win a nfl game in his life. im am really lost watching this season. the guys wanna win but its like the coaches dont want them to.
your right jeff :)
we could been right in the hunt with a win today….. even after a 6 game losing streak!! our team was playing their hearts out its a damn shame they coaches wont let them
my right?
UVA and Virginia Tech students have a lot in common. We were all accepted to Virginia Tech.
by Jeff Bernard on Dec 5, 2011 9:15 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
ST is an area that just has to be consistent
it has not been for some time. A HC cannot be worried about his ST all game. A change is in order in my opinion.
"You can build a million bridges, suck one dick, you're not a bridgebuilder you are a cocksucker." - - Woody Harrelson
In this we are in complete agreement
UVA and Virginia Tech students have a lot in common. We were all accepted to Virginia Tech.
by Jeff Bernard on Dec 4, 2011 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
Why are so many people so against making a change on special teams??
Yes it’s not our biggest need, but it’s also not going to take any major resources to fix. Finding someone who is a better returner than Banks ain’t exactly difficult, and even if the spend ‘big money’ on a FA kicker like Jay Feeley, Neil Rackers or Phil Dawson, it won’t really prevent them from signing any major needs.
As for the coaching change I would def. say it is warranted. Our ST’s have been an issue for a while and decisions like keeping Banks and Sundenberg are questionable as is not bringing in better kicking competition.
And the whole Banks debate about whether or not he’s making the decision to bring the ball out 5 yards or deeper in the end zone is pretty simple to me. If he’s making the call on his own he deserves to be cut b/c he’s not productive and has cost this team. And the coaches should be held accountable for not realizing how much of a waste this has been. If the coaches are giving him the green light then they should be held accountable for making a poor decision, and Banks should be cut because he’s obviously not productive under the new rules. Either way he should be cut. It really doesn’t matter who’s decision it is, he can’t do the job end of story. And since he doesn’t play other special teams or on offense he doesn’t have a role if he’s not an impact player.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Let's say we agree....then based on this logic
we should fire our QB coach, Oline coach, secondary coach, wr coach, and rb coach. Oh…and our OC.
Can we agree on that? I think everyone could be fired quite frankly. But that really wouldn’t be productive. So the question in my mind is what are the biggest areas of concern. ST beyond Gano simply isn’t one of them in my opinion. Banks can be replaced with Paul. So be it. But is that going to change the world? That is the point. The post’s title is “Redskins Special Teams to Blame”? Sorry…I don’t think that is the issue right now. We have much bigger fish to fry. But if you are recommending a house cleaning…sign me up as long as it is the whole lot of them. Otherwise, there is some value in continuity and I am fine waiting until next year to find out whether the Mike can turn it around and Kyle decides to call an NFl game instead of a game of Madden with Aaron Rodgers as his QB.
by DavidDunn on Dec 4, 2011 10:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
well I think you'd fire your head coach first since he put together that squad and has the most oversight on offense
but here’s the thing. Our special teams have been bad for a couple of years now (maybe not every unit, but it’s never been a true strength) and Danny Smith has been here longer than these other guys. So if any unit should be set it should be that. Smith has obviously had input in ST personnel decisions and they haven’t been that great of late. These past two years we’ve had major issues with blocking on FG’s and the snaps. I’m sorry but that is amateur hour.
Not to mention we don’t even have much creativity. Today’s reverse was the first I remember in a LONG time. Not that you can do stuff like that every game, but it should be more than once every two years. And that onside kick attempt was kinda weak in my book (and they couldn’t execute it without a penalty).
I have issues with much of the coaching staff, but I can at least understand the argument of ‘give them time’ and ‘give them personnel’. Smith has had the time and he’s had the chance at personnel.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Good points
And obviously he has input on Gano…
Now if you want to talk about someone who has cost us games…
And that does fall on Smith…so that is a legitimate argument…
As I have said…we are just bad. There is not getting around it. I personally don’t think ST beyond Gano is our biggest issues, but you make a compelling argument, especially on all of the blocks. Accountability is indeed important.
Of coarse Shanahan as input
He is the personnel man. He is the man who hired the entire coaching staff. He is the head coach; if you think that firing Smith and getting rid of banks are no berainers, then your real problem is with Shanahan.
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Dec 5, 2011 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
IMHO, the ST are way down the list of the Redskins' problems right now
Their kick coverage is consistently effective, measured in terms of the net punt average (7th) and punts inside the 20 (tied for 1st), and opponents’ starting field position. Banks is a better than average punt returner and about average as a KO returner (kickoff returns are down league wide thanks to the new rules). The one area that’s been a problem has been blocking for the field goals, as Redskins lead the league in blocked kicks.
The offense turns the ball over left and right and can’t sustain a drive, the defense can’t get off the field when it needs to, so the answer is … fire the special teams coach! I don’t really get that thinking.
Bingo
Couldn’t agree with this more.
The redskins have a lot of issues, and their special teams is far from perfect, but this team has bigger problems.
The Beat Box aka skins secondary.
game looked fishy at the end
my mind always go against the grain. the skins lose all the time, so maybe i’m going crazy. but the end of the game just didn’t make sense. and grossman smiling on the sideline with kyle just looked stupid. maybe they know something we don’t
At least Danny never iced his place kicker!
Way to go Garret. Anyone else expect to see 3 out of 4 NFC East Head Coaches looking for jobs come January? I think Shanahan maybe the only one not on the hot seat at the end of this year. End of next may be a different story, but not this year.
Just a scapegoat
Other than Gano and blocking on field goals, I see no issue with our special teams. Banks hasn’t quite lit it up this year, but he has been far from awful. According to Dan Graziano of the NFC East Blog on ESPN, Banks has been the best kick and punt returner in the East all season. Coming into yesterday’s game, Banks was 3rd in the league in kick return yards and 2nd in the league in kick returns over 20 yards. The coaches have obviously given him the green light to return out of the end zone. I’m assuming these extra yards don’t count towards his average, but if they did, he would probably rank higher than he is in return average. I know that others return it from the end zone too, but I have yet to see a team do it as consistently as the Skins. Personally, I like that aggressiveness. To me it is worth it to try and get better field position for this offense. I know it doesn’t always work out, but I don’t see it as being devastating to this team. I wonder, also, if Banks is 100% healthy. Perhaps he regains his explosiveness next season. I don’t want to see this guy get picked up by a division rival and have him come back to bite us in the ass. I don’t think Danny Smith should be fired. Our return coverage has been excellent all year. We need some better blockers on field goals and we need a more consistent kicker, even if he doesn’t have the powerful leg that Gano has.
They do count toward his average
That is the problem.The reason he likely has more return yards is because most people will down it 8 yards deep. Not Banks. He gets a 24 yard return putting it squarely at the 16 yard line. As was said before, that is a negative play. It just pads his stats and doesn’t improve our average stating field position.
by PAinfUL on Dec 5, 2011 8:22 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Other than Gano and blocking on field goals
So other than 1/2 of the equation the rest is fine?
UVA and Virginia Tech students have a lot in common. We were all accepted to Virginia Tech.
By my count, that is much less than 1/2.
There is the field goal defense team, the kick return team, kick coverage, punt team, punt coverage, and punt return team.
I would love to hear about a field goal defense team. By what measure is that a real team that can be judged good or bad? A successful FG defense team is successful maybe 1% of the time. Also i would love to hear what the punt team does if there is a punt coverage and punt return team. Very interesting breakdown. Lets be real, nearly every player on the kick off team is the same as the punt team. There is really only one special teams. They suck at kicking field goals, they suck at returning punts and kicks. They are good at stopping punts and kicks and good at punting. So good at 3 and bad at 3. This means there are 6 things they do and they suck at 3. Lets see 3 out of 6 is reducible to 1/2.
UVA and Virginia Tech students have a lot in common. We were all accepted to Virginia Tech.
I don't know what grazing is basin that off of but I don't see how the numbers support it
Banks has been among the worst return men
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
god i hate auto correct sometimes
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
I just close my eyes on field goals and kick offs...
and hope that they don’t get blocked or botched at this point anymore. Did anyone else hear the announcers say that Gano “Chilie-Dicked” that kick? Or was that just me?!
Jets have good special teams,
and return man Joe McKnight has some strong legs.
It is what it is
Worst Post Ever
Rex threw 46 pass attempts in a game we were winning ! and Parks wants to blame the special teams ? Are you serious. You know who I dont want to hear from ? Danny Smith
You know who I would love to hear from? Kyle Shanahan. It was Obvious that Sunday was Bad Rex Day he was making terrible decisions all day. However someone thought that it was a good idea to have him continue to pass the ball WHO WHY ??
The Rod has spoken
by Rodskin on Dec 5, 2011 9:29 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
See; Jets run defense.
It can be pretty tough when it shows up.
It is what it is
Yet another guy that only comes on here when we lose.
I don’t know if you read the post but the title had this in it: “?”
It was a question for discussion, not a definitive statement.
Thanks for your feedback though and thanks for contributing. If only we would of listened to you and got Terrell Owens and Vince Young, then we’d be playoff bound.
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
I'm new here ! T.O. ? Vince Young ?
Who the hell suggested that combo ? I’m not too sure that Young would have been too bad . Couldn’t be a worse backup than Beck . Maybe with a full year learning the system , he would have been a better caretaker, for next year, than Rex . MAYBE !!! But T.O. ? REALLY ?
they didnt show up much
in the beginning of the game. The run was working, we just stopped doing it. We had the lead it would of at least took some time off the clock.
The Rod has spoken
Not entirely accurate
Kyle Shanahan is a complete dork when it comes to the running game. But not only does he abandoned it to early, he also fails to adjust once the defense does.
Last week it was zones stretch to the left and right–nothing up the middle.
This week, it was pitch to the left and pitch to the right–once that New York figured out how to stop it, we had nothing in the playbook to mix it up with.
Daddy really needs to fire his son before he fires Smith
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Dec 5, 2011 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
As always
the coordinators look like geniuses when the players execute, they’re jokes when they don’t. As much as I was scratching my head at some of the play calling it looked like there were about 4 drops in a row before Rex got wild. Now if I were O coordinator I probably wouldn’t have tried to force the ball 7 times in a row, particularly if guys weren’t inclined to catch it, but a lot of the blame has to fall on the wide receivers for having stone hands and Rex for getting frustrated.
Back to the topic, Banks isn’t who we wanted him to be but I doubt any return guy can be good with what Banks has been given.
posts like this are just a distraction...
after such a collapse such as yesterday’s, with QB turnovers and the subsequent burial on the defense under such an avalanche of pressure, you want to talk about the special teams? Whether your point is spot on or not, it seems to misdirect attention away from what we all know to be the problem with this team – QB and OL.
This team has more immediate problems to solve than ST. Who is this teams PR or KR next year can wait until next year.
i think S.T
is very hard to coach. i think smith has done a pretty good job. it would be very hard to replace him imo. the players like him and they try hard for him. we are pretty good on returns and coverage. better then most teams. if we get a new coach chances are we get worse before we get better.
CSN - Post game Live gave Special Teams all "F"s last week
Special Teams has been pretty bad, except for Rocca. But I heard that they’ve been devastated by injuries – Danny never knows who the heck he has until the last minute. But Gano is awful – seems to lose concentration at times. Just a guess – I think he tries to relax and stay cool, but goes too far and doesn’t concentrate.

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