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Our Offensive Line will be............uh, Good Next Year


Yeah right. What are you smoking Tiller? Did you forget your Lexapro again? Dude, stop with the Crown Royal!

I'm not kidding though. Our line will be a strength of the offense next year, and I'm not even counting any additions we may add in Free Agency or the Draft.

Star-divide

Trent Williams will finally become the true pro bowl calibur we all hoped for when we drafted him 4th overall in 2010. The guy has some of the best feet in the NFL, and a mean streak to go with it. We are being too hard on him so far in his career. He's done a good job, and is only going to get better.

Kory Licht - I know some of you did not believe in the Licht hype prior to the 2011 season, but he proved early and often that he was our most consistant O-Linemen. He excells in a ZBS scheme, and his growth in our system was recognizable in his second year in DC. He will come back from the knee injury, and he will be a key cog in the line in 2012.

Will Montgomery - Monty is sure as hell a better center than he was a guard. He seems more natural at the position, and a full offseason in the S&C program will do him a world of good.

Mo Hurt - What a surprise this rookie turned out to be. He played better each and every game, and although he was far from perfect, he was consistant enough to be in the mix for a starting guard spot in 2012. He needs to lose a little bit of the baby fat, but once he does, watch out.

Willie Smith - I championed for the skins to sign Free Willie as soon as he hit free agency after the draft. He was the one guy I was most excited to see as a rookie, and thankfully, due to some unfortunate injuries, we were able to see him perform. Was he perfect..........no. Does he have potential...................hell yes. He could lock down a starting spot at right tackle in 2012 with a good offseason in the weight room, and in mini-camps and the preseason.

Chris Chester - Chester seemed to get more and more comfortable as the season went on. He showed good movement for a guy his size. I think he needs to work on his upper-body strength, and staying lower in his stance, but he has the ability to be a key player for this unit in 2012.

I think we may use free agency to add one key piece to this line for next season. If we do so, we need to use the draft for some depth, and developmental players. Picks in the 3rd and 4th rounds should be used to address some of the depth issues, at both center and tackle. Who knows, maybe we can even find an eventual starter from these rounds.

This leads me to my last point: The skill positions, QB and WR, need to be addressed with the first two picks; no excuses! There is pleanty of talent there for the taking, and the Redskins need to be as greedy as they can.

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I agree the O-line will be better... if nothing more than because of experience and health

Having said that… I still believe that we should draft at least 2 more O-linemen. Any combination of OT and G or C.

I love Trent, and think he can only get better… but the failed drug test thing… has me worried. He painted himself a big bullseye on his back… and the NFL might be looking to make an example out of him… We must draft another OT for depth and contingency!

by 1x1an on Dec 27, 2011 7:25 PM EST reply actions  

I wrote this post

because I was watching Tyson Calabo, a guy we coveted as a FA last season, play last night, and I said to myself, damn, this guy isn’t that good. We have guys on our team that are just as good.

It also struck me when I was watching the Seahawks Carpenter(a rookie RT), a few weeks ago. This is guy who was picked in the first round, who looked no better than our own Willie Smith.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 27, 2011 8:59 PM EST reply actions  

Totally agree with you here.

I see it as more cushion for the pushin'

by iH8dallas on Dec 27, 2011 9:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Sure, now he is

but Calabo was an undrafted FA, and Developed. He did not impress me the few times I watched him this year………………..and neither did Carpenter. Just saying(in the case of carpenter)that just because you pick a linemen in the first round, and start him immediately, doesn’t always mean success.

In the case of Calabo, a guy can become a solid linemen, no matter where he was selected.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 28, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

that can be true about any position

and Clabo is a Pro Bowl caliber lineman, he made it last year and probably deserved it again.

And you are right Clabo was developed, as he didn’t start until his 3rd season (and even then not all year). You can’t just throw a guy in there and say ‘sink or swim’

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 28, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

That is exactly what we did to Williams…

And I would say that he is bobbing just above the waves and is in danger of sinking.
I could see having trouble giving up something addictive to save your NFL career as being difficult–but marijuana should not be that big of a hurdle… getting caught 11 times is a huge red flag.
Maybe we should have played him at right tackle sparingly at first so there wasn’t so much pressure on him to perform… he might be hiding in the pipe

The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button

by Skins Fan '77 on Dec 28, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Hiding in the pipe?

He just likes to smoke weed…a lot. He’s not smoking out his feelings.

by StephanHart on Dec 28, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Youd be surprised how many players smoke weed

Lots, and lots, and lots, and lots, and lots………………………………..

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 28, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions  

but they are smart enough to do it without being suspended…which is the worrisome part

by les boulez bomber on Dec 28, 2011 6:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't forget

we had a very unusual offseason

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 28, 2011 7:42 PM EST up reply actions  

yes but the other ones caught managed not to get suspended

there really isn’t any excuse, it shows a distinct lack of maturity and leadership.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 29, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I couldn't believe Carpenter was a 1st rounder!

I watched the combine online with a friend of mine and we both said Carpenter looked horrible. We then proceeded to laugh a lot at the Seahawks for drafting him in the 1st round, and we still do every time we mention the Seahawks.

by UkRedskin on Dec 28, 2011 7:55 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree

I was the same way when Seattle drafted him, and I had watched a lot of Bama game that year, and was never impressed.

IMHO, I believe our own Willie Smith was just as effective this season(albiet in less starts) as the 1st round pick Carpenter was. I also believe Smith has a high celing………………………….so my question is, do we NEED a first or second round OT to be successful?

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 28, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

yes

b/c you are comparing him to Carpenter, who in addition to the fact that he should be playing guard, is playing really poor football. Saying that Willie Smith is just as effective, isn’t really a compliment.

That’s like saying Tyler Palko is just as effective as John Beck.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 28, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

At one point

you were for a trade back, and draft Adams approach……………………..correct? That is a guy you said could play RT from day one, but I disagreed. IMO, Smith has greater upside than Adams, who at one point, you were fine with taking in the first round, and having him start.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 28, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I would still take Adams in the late 1st-early 2nd range

and no Smith doesn’t have better upside than him, at least not in the sense of ‘likely to reach it’

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 29, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

haha

Adams in the 1st……haha.

I’ll tell you this with 100% certainty, Smith is a better fit at OT in our offense than Adams.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 29, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions  

We don't know

We could have our best tackle removed from our roster without warning at any moment next season… how the heck do you plan for that?

The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button

by Skins Fan '77 on Dec 28, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

More question marks than answers on the OL..

TWill- will he ever get it? 11 failed drug tests since August, a 4 game suspension, and another failed test from a yr long suspension. His play for a 4th overall pick has been average..he’s also the angriest pothead in the world.

Licht- was our best OL before the injury. Will he recover, will his repaired knee take away his greatest asset…getting to the 2nd level?

Monty- better than Rabach but still extremely average.

Chester- not a fan, he’s graded out terribly and needs to be upgraded

Smith- I was also campaigning for him as well. He’s filled in more than admirably and has the potential to be a starting RT but he’s still very raw. Jammal Brown should cut.

OL needs depth and an upgrade at RG, RT and possibly C but Hurt and Smith are good depth guys..

@Callahan_9 on the twitter machine.

by Diesel44 on Dec 27, 2011 9:19 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

I see those concerns too

I didn’t realize Trent had 11 failed drug tests since August. What an idiot to risk his multi million dollar career for drugs. These guys make more money in their 2-3 year careers than most of us make in our whole lives and they thro it away for drugs? Ridiculous!

Will Licht recover 100%? Seems unlikely as a lot of guys don’t.

by aFan4Life on Dec 28, 2011 8:49 AM EST up reply actions  

and even if he does we need to remember that it was only a 4 game stretch

If you looked at 4 of Torain’s games last year (including the tampa game) you’d think he was great, but you look at the whole picture and it isn’t promising. I hope that Licht had improved, but last year he was awful and some of his success this year came against teams like the Rams and Cards.

Thats why I think him and Chester should battle it out for a starting role, with the other being the primary interior backup.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 28, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions  

I think Licht will be fine

If a RB can come back from ACL and MCL tears, a linemen surely can.

I also think the combo of Licht, Hurt and Chester will be good at G

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 28, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions  

that would be awful at guard

Hurt has gotten beat bad in just about every game, Licht is a huge ? and Chester average at best. Why is it you are so content with these linemen, but keep saying we need a star receiver?

Gaffney and Moss, plus Hankerson and Paul give us far more of a head start to that positional group than along the O-line.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 28, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I agree with your comments on OL and WR. It should be easier to upgrade the WR group in free agency

than the OL group. If nothing else of significance happens in free agency it will impact the draft priorities.

by Jefferson1935 on Dec 28, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

That is a really good point

There are always more wide receivers available in free agency then there are offensive lineman

The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button

by Skins Fan '77 on Dec 28, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

that still leaves 2 big ifs

Can Licht recover? it’s possible but not a certainty. Will Trent avoid drugs? With 11 failures that seems unlikely.

I think it would be smart to draft at least 1 OL at some point just in case.

by aFan4Life on Dec 28, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

I think we should add at least one, prob two O-Linemen in the draft/free agency

Now where we draft them is the question. I don’t necessarily think we have to use that 2nd on an OT anymore. We could use our 3rd, and one of the 4th’s on linemen, and I would definitly champion a center with one of the picks.

If we add a quality starter via FA, and a possible starting center in the draft, some of the 2011 starters, could now be moved to reserves, giving us some much needed depth.

It would be aweful nice to have Monty, Licht or Hurt, and and mid round rookie OT as depth.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 29, 2011 9:11 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree

I think we could possibly use our 2nd pick on a WR as there seem to be quite a few decent prospects and it’s conceivable that we could get a real impact WR in the 2nd round. If there aren’t any WRs worth taking then I’d look at CB or OL.

by aFan4Life on Dec 29, 2011 9:30 AM EST up reply actions  

There are not a ton of quality WR's in the draft

I’d consider a Kendal Wright in the 2nd, but he’s a smaller WR, and I think we have enough of them. There is no way that Jefferies or Floyd slip to the 2nd. Quick is a big kid, but there is no way he’s worth a high 2nd. This could be a great spot to trade back, and gain a few more picks.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 29, 2011 9:39 AM EST up reply actions  

I was looking at the National Football Post list of WRs

and they have 14 WRS graded above a 6.0 which seems like a fair amount to me. Given that we really should use our 1st round pick on a QB, I can’t see spending more than a 2nd on a WR and even then I’d rather draft OL unless the WR has a ton of potential.

by aFan4Life on Dec 29, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

WR is insanely deep this year

i think you can find plenty of good ones in the 3rd and 4th rounds as well. And there should be plenty of intriguing 5th-UDFA guys that should interest Washington, for depth purposes.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 29, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

that's what i was thinking

I realize we need to upgrade at WR but I’d rathr not use a 1st round pick on it.

by aFan4Life on Dec 29, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed I love a guy like Floyd

but we can’t afford to go down that road given all our needs

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 29, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

If we were able to

Trade down from 7th to 18-22 and he was still on the board. I go that route.

When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey

by Redskin44 on Dec 29, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions  

what QB are you getting in the first round anyways?

The only option is Tannehill in the late first to ensure whomever in the 2nd doesn’t steal him.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 29, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

not sure

I just can’t see ignoring the most important position on the team. Drafting a WR, not matter how good he is, will not have as much impact as getting a good (not even great) QB. This is why I think drafting a 1st round WR is unwise. If you’re not going to draft a QB in the first then grab an OT so that our OL can help whatever crappy QB we end up with for next year – which would probably be Grossman.

I am still curious about Foles as well as Tannehill.

by aFan4Life on Dec 30, 2011 8:37 AM EST up reply actions  

14 1st and 2nd round WRs isn't depth?

and even if they aren’t I’m fine with 4th – 5th round WR talent. It won;t matter without a QB upgrade.

Isn’t it pretty obvious that the WR doesn’t even get a chance to get his hands on the ball without a QB to throw the ball somewhere in his general vicinity? QB and OL are both more important than WR.

Jerry Rice would have looked mediocre with Grossman throwing to him.

by aFan4Life on Dec 30, 2011 8:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Were in the hell

are there 14 1st and 2nd round WR?

Please, show me.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 30, 2011 8:55 AM EST up reply actions  

here

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/college_big_board_rankings.html&position=wr

14 guys are rated 6.0 or better which is pretty high. Even if they are only 3rd and 4th round guys I’d still rather use those rounds for WR than our only 1st round pick when we don’t have a decent QB.

Using a 1st round pick on a WR is insane when you have no QB!

by aFan4Life on Dec 30, 2011 9:58 AM EST up reply actions  

IDK what this 6.0 or better is

but I will say I see 5-7 possible 1st and 2nd round WR’s avaliable, so that’s what I was basing mu info on.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 30, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Completely agree

& altho I also liked Willie Smith as an UDFA (enough to write a Fanpost about him & a few others, including your boy, the “Vanilla Gorilla”) http://www.hogshaven.com/2011/6/12/2220108/ten-udfas-with-potential I don’t see him as a starter. A great player for Depth & as a rotational type player to keep your starters fresh but we need to pick up some quality starting caliber interior lineman

by ENsDad27 on Dec 28, 2011 8:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I like your recent mock draft because it shows some imagination

http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2011/12/26/2661503/four-round-mock-with-trades
It gives some hope that the most critical team needs will be met.
It will be awhile before the combines and draft take place. In the mean while some information is scarce.

by Jefferson1935 on Dec 29, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed really good job, only thing I'd say is I don't necessarily think we'd have to give up that 4th as part of the first deal

with the new rookie cap the value of the top 10 picks I think has gone up since it isn’t near the financial investment it used to be.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 29, 2011 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks Steve

& you might be right about the compensation but I had a feeling that trade wasn’t going to go over well with Jags fans…

by ENsDad27 on Dec 29, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Love your optimism...unfortunately

My concern with this scenario is that it requires "everything to according to plan" which never seems to work out in Redskin world.

I have huge question marks about TW in terms of character, health, and ceiling. He seemed to be playing well the last 3 games before he was suspended, but for the most part was inconsistent and not the player I think most he had hoped he would be at this point.

I love the idea ‘skins finally developing and drafting their own players, and I like Hurt and Smith, but to expect both of them to be productive starters next year may be a reach. And I think it might be dangerous to pencil them in as starters at this point for next season.

Monty, Chester (and Licht), I feel like they are below average starters but good backups. I’m not true student of the game but they never seem to get any "push" and frankly seem to end up on their backs at the QBs feet far too often.

When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey

by Redskin44 on Dec 27, 2011 11:18 PM EST reply actions  

Sean Locklear hasn't been mentioned in the various roster review posts that I can recall. The fact that the coaches

preferred Willie Smith for recent starts at least gives some idea of their perspective. In addition he will be 31 by the 2012 season and the Team can do better for depth at OT or G.

by Jefferson1935 on Dec 28, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Be careful reading things to deep

Sean Locklear is one of the leagues best backup linemen and not an every down starter. He is not being played because he is a known backup and Willie is getting a shot. Doing good too.

by HisTToRy on Dec 28, 2011 5:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

More experience and more gelling is what our O-line needs. Our offense acuatlly started to look like an offense at the end of the season here and help produce quite a few hundred yard days for our rookie backs. I agree, our O-line could use some more depth and maybe another starter at guard and someone to push JB, which I think smith will do. Trent better get his shit together. or i will smack the shit out of him.

by fraja926 on Dec 28, 2011 12:33 AM EST reply actions  

But seriously, this is a very, very optimistic way to look at things. Are you really comfortable with depending on a 7th rounder and a UDFA to become good Offensive Linemen in a single offseason? I certainly am not. We need 2 2nd-3rd round talents on the Offensive Line – at OT and at least one of the interior line positions, respectively. We would also be wise to sign one of the top FA Guards this year.

by TheDeepBall on Dec 28, 2011 12:51 AM EST reply actions  

Yeah you’re right, putting up 27 on the Pats, 23 on the Giants, and 26 on the Vikings which by the way all produced 100 yards for our back isn’t good progress at all for our rookies who haven’t even started all season. Hmmmm just because they get drafted in a higher round doesn’t make them any better. Come on now, if you ever played ball you know that going into your second season, especially after your first year, you become leaps and bounds ahead of the year before.

by fraja926 on Dec 28, 2011 8:13 AM EST up reply actions  

huh??

the Giants held our backs to 2.7 yards per carry, not sure how that can be considered a success. The Pats, Giants and Vikes all have pretty poor defenses.

Hurt, Smith, Monty, Licht, Chester are not really starting caliber guys. Some could be average starters, but we can’t rely on these guys.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 28, 2011 10:30 AM EST up reply actions  

it is completely different in the pros

in your first FIRST season of football, you don’t know what the hell is going on half the time. By the time you’re in the pros you’ve got 6+ years of experience. The improvement from a rookie to first year pro is much less than that of a high school freshman to sophomore.

Furthermore, the Pats and Giants are the 23rd and 25th ranked run defenses – not exactly stiff competition. Minnesota is the only decent run D we faced the last few weeks. Oh, and the Giants held the Skins to 2.7 ypc. Terrible.

by TheDeepBall on Dec 29, 2011 12:49 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m not talking about HS FB sunshine, my career went a little furthur then HS.
vs Seattle Helu 108 yards 1 TD
vs Jets Helu 100 yards 1 TD
vs NE Helu 126 yards
vs Giants Helu had a 2.1 avg, as a TEAM we had 123 yards and a 3.1 avg
vs Vikings Royster 132 yards

by fraja926 on Dec 29, 2011 4:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Alot of you are just so down on our present team. Seriously you have no faith in the players that are there. You always think that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. How about we build upon some good that we’ve been ending with this year. How about you give these guys some credit and let them progress instead of being a negative nancy. Listen you pick up a LG and some OL depth in the draft, let these guys get another year in the system and gel, let ’em compete, and build on what we did this year.

by fraja926 on Dec 29, 2011 4:43 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Well put man

This is my idea too, but alas, as you mentioned, people are always down on late round/undrafted linemen, and believe we need to spend 1st and 2nd round pick to get quality……………………well, that’s not always true.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 29, 2011 8:25 AM EST up reply actions  

It's not that we are

Down on Hurt or Smith because they are low picks or UDFAs. It is because they are raw and little experience. If they don’t pan out, we are screwed, so let’s add some depth.

When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey

by Redskin44 on Dec 29, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

We had faith in TW as a rookie

and he has let some fans down. If we have faith in Smith, he can only raise our expectations. When I see Willie Smith, I think jason Peters. Similar situation.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 29, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah...

And the Pats should probably think about drafting a QB in the 1st or 2nd round because you know, Tom Brady was a 6th rounder…

Once they are in the league, it doesn’t matter where they were drafted. If they are good enough, they can play. Having just watched every offensive snap by Willie Smith for the last 2 games, Smith has something there. He was far from what you would expect from an UDFA and could be pretty solid after a full off-season worth of conditioning and coaching.

by UkRedskin on Dec 28, 2011 8:25 AM EST up reply actions  

there is no way the Skins can count on Smith for next year

Smith might not be god awful (i.e. Brown), but he’s given up 2 sacks and a combined 10 hits and pressures in under 200 snaps. If that was over a full season you are looking at over 10 sacks, and 50+ hits and pressures. He also got beat multiple times against the Giants against the run and was average at best against the Vikes.

There is potential there, but to rely on him is absolutely insane.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 28, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Would you rather rely on Brown

or a rookie like Carpenter for the Seahawks?

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 28, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions  

oh i'd take Carpenter, younger, cheaper more potential, if he doesn't workout as a starter he can at least be a backup

and you can try him at guard as well (esp. if we are talking about Carpenter). But neither one is going to be the answer next season for our line.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 28, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

That is not the question.

The question is, are you okay with counting on an offensive lineman that gives up such a high ratio of sacks and pressures? Are you OK with trusting implicitly this guy’s ability to step it up this offseason to a serviceable level?

You see, it is not an “either/or” situation with Brown and Smith. There is a 3rd choice as well – draft an OT in the 2nd round.

by TheDeepBall on Dec 29, 2011 1:12 AM EST up reply actions  

My point was

that not all highly drafted O-Linemen work out. That’s why I referenced Carpenter. Also see Jason Smith, Robert Gallery, Tony Mandrich etc, etc, etc.

We have a young guy, albiet a undrafted rookie, who’s shown he capable of playing at a high level; hell, he started as an undrafted rookie, for a Chris Forester coached team(that guy knows his shit), over a proven vet like Locklear. Let’s at least give credit where credit is due. Smith has a lot of talent to work with. Maybe the average eye can’t pick up on it, but many others can see he has the ability; it just needs to be refined and coached up.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 29, 2011 8:29 AM EST up reply actions  

oh, come now.

You can replace the word "O-linemen " with “Quarterback” and “Carpenter” with “Gabbert” in your first sentence and you have an argument that people get jumped on for making in the QB threads.

Certainly he’s proven he has the POTENTIAL to play at a high level. But he must first realize that potential. Going back to the Clabo argument, Clabo did not start for 4 years after he was drafted. This is only Smith’s 2nd season in the league, and I am simply not comfortable with relying on him to improve as much as he needs to.

Maybe if we draft a new C and OT maybe we can convert Smith to a Guard. We need to replace Chester anyway.

by TheDeepBall on Dec 29, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Clabo did not start for 4 years after he was drafted

He started his 3rd year.

And I already pointed out why Willie Smith was not drafted. It wasn’t lack of talent. It was lack of time at the position, and the scouting reports reflect this. I gave you Jason Peter’s name as a guy who went through a similar situation. He was projected by many to be as high as a 4-5th round pick(Just as Smith was by many), but went undrafted because he was viewed as raw.

Just like Peters, Smith has some of the same attributes. He was a DE and a TE in college, before moving to OT. He is extremely athletic, just like Peters. Peters was 6’4" 328, and in the most important catagory for a linemen at the combine(the 10 yard split), had a time of 1.79. Smith was 6’5" 308, and had a 10 yard split of 1.75. Peters benched 225, 21×. Smith did it 25×.

The point with undrafted guys like Calabo and Peters, is it just takes the right eye to catch these type of guys. Both Peters and Calabo are pro bowlers. Not saying Willie Smith will be one too, but don’t rule him out just because he went undrafted.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 30, 2011 9:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Just finished watching back

the Vikings and Giants game, focusing on just Willie Smith on every offensive snap and noting down all his good and bad plays. Not sure if I should just type up my notes and post it, or if I should add pictures here and there. But I agree I think we have something there. With a full off-season of coaching and in weight room he could definitely challenge Jammal Brown for the starting RT spot.

by UkRedskin on Dec 28, 2011 7:57 AM EST reply actions  

you can't use Brown as the litmus test though

that is like saying Jonathan Crompton can challenge Beck. Smith might have an easier time at RT, but if they don’t upgrade the Skins are in serious trouble.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 28, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

I hope Brown is not in the mix for RT next season

When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey

by Redskin44 on Dec 28, 2011 10:38 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree UK

Thats what I did too(went back and re-watched his starts), and I agree; he could be our starter at RT next year.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 28, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions  

This seems very optimistic

I think we should still pick up another 1 or 2 OL this year as I doubt ever single one of these guys will improve as much as they need to.

by aFan4Life on Dec 28, 2011 8:51 AM EST reply actions  

yeah, absolutely

a C, who could possibly challenge Monty, and a guy or two for depth.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 28, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Trade Jamall Brown

for a waterboy or something. He’s been the most overhyped tackle we’ve got. He may have been pro bowl material in NO but here he’s been a waste. Might be a backup but I doubt that. We cut him slack last year for the hip problem all year. Couldn’t fall back on that this season. Too many whiffs of his pass pro and is hot or cold on run blocking. Move Willie into his spot and pray Trent gives up the weed.

by DudleyDoright on Dec 28, 2011 9:11 AM EST reply actions  

It’s funny, I remember last year everyone was saying one of our biggest offseason signings needed to be J Brown.

by fraja926 on Dec 29, 2011 4:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Last year everybody thought he was going to be healthy

this year. Well for the most part he has but he hasn’t lived up to that hype when we got him. Also because the line was so bad last year everyone said keep him because he’ll be better…well he ain’t.

by DudleyDoright on Dec 29, 2011 9:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Smith is the guy with the upside

while Brown is playing on the downside of his career.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 29, 2011 9:05 AM EST up reply actions  

i partially agree with your assesment but

more o-line definitely need to come in for depth during the offseason somehow, whether through free agency or the draft. the thing about it is earlier in the season during our win streak our 0-line played well enough to win games with rex grossman and a strong run game. if our oline just plays consistently “OK” and we have dynamic QB and RB play we should be able to get by.

what happened earlier in the season was our o-line play went from "OK: to bad with injuries and our inexperienced backups were thrown in. Fortunuately now our backups arent inexeperienced and should be able to handle their own with injuries.

We need to keep in mind that there arent many o-lines that just dominate d-lines. but QB’s and RB’s and WR’s that dominate opposing team defenders. The main measure of a Line should be “can they consistently give the QB at least 3 seconds to throw” and “can they push hard enough to make sure running plays gain atleast 2 yards”.

a good QB helps the line by pointing out blitzers and pressure and changes the plays to better help the offense. a good RB turns a 2 yard gain into a 10 yard gain. thats alll i want to see from our line. i think its kinda wasted resources to spend too much on linemen but they should be able to atleast hold their own.

by mrhinton on Dec 28, 2011 9:36 AM EST reply actions  

more o-line definitely need to come in for depth during the offseason somehow, whether through free agency or the draft.

I agree, 100% – I think thats where the 3rd and 4th round picks can really come into play. Add a stud via FA too if we choose.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 28, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions  

exactly, pick up a LG, and draft another guard and tackle prospect after the first round to add depth. I have the upmost respect for alot of these guys that are playing their hearts out that are on OUR team.

by fraja926 on Dec 29, 2011 4:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Me too

I’d like a G in FA, and a C in the draft. The one guy I truely believe we can replace on our line is Monty at C. I think he’s be fine as a reserve at bot C and G.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 29, 2011 8:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Willie Smith is very encouraging to me

I specifically watched him match up against Jared Allen last game. He gave up a sack and a hit, but considered Allen is averaging over a sack a game and is an elite pass rusher, Smith really matched up well against him. It wasn’t perfect, it wasn’t pretty, but the guy is rapidly adjusting to the NFL game. Undrafted rookie free agent vs. top 5 NFL sack man, I’d take the top 5 NFL sack man, but I’d say Willie Smith really won the war against Jared Allen. It was a great game for him and shows his evolution.

by BigOLinemen on Dec 28, 2011 10:37 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

Agree

I like Smith more and more each game. and I think he’l be starting next year.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 28, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

I have been impressed by Smith and Hurt

They have played much better than expected for a 7th round guard and a undrafted tackle. I think with a full offseason in the weight room and a season of experience, its not unreasonable to think that they both could start next year. Probably wont happen and we still need to draft a OG/OT and a center in the draft, but our situation looks much better than i thought it was before they both played.

by redskinhokie88 on Dec 28, 2011 2:31 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Some people want it all .

I do too , but I have the good sense to know that we can’t get it all in one offseason , and it appears that Tiller does too .
I don’t get the lack of respect for Chester . He has played all year between Brown , and Monty . He doesn’t have the luxury of just playing his own assignment . He is too busy picking up the slack for Monty’s lack of strength , and Brown just plain sucking . Chester has actually played a very solid season , under the circumstances . I agree we need to pick-up a RT in the draft , and a C to push Monty for a starting spot . I would also love to get a solid G in FA , to put next to Trent . Smith , Hurt , Licht , and Monty for depth .
IF RG3 is there when we pick in the 1st , grab him . If not , trade down for more picks , and get Tannahill/Foles . Then we can go OT & C .

by EldonD on Dec 28, 2011 4:08 PM EST reply actions  

Yesterdays afterthoughts

can become tomorrows stars.

Hurt – Is a very strong man with good feet. With a little conditioning, he could become good.

Smith – Again, very strong with long arms, and an ideal OT build. Exceptional feet………he just needs to learn to trust them.

We are not as bad off as some on here think.

Personally, if i had to choose one spot to upgrade on the o-line, it would be center – without a doubt. I love both Jones and Molk, and I believe both could be avaliable in the 3rd. BINGO!

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 28, 2011 5:20 PM EST reply actions  

Carl Nicks...

would he cost alot? ABSOLUTELY! And he would be worth every penny. Put him with TW and the left side of the line is transformed.

I have been promoting Big Willie for weeks now. It is the best way to see what kind of player he could be. If he wins the RT job next year, WOW!, what a find.

I agree, Tiller, we don’t need a complete overhaul. Injuries make consistent development between players extremely difficult. So do suspensions. Perhaps, TW’s attention has finally been had, and he will come into the offseason training very focused. I know I can’t wait to see who will man the positions next year.

by jgibbsfan1 on Dec 28, 2011 10:35 PM EST reply actions  

If our line were to look like this next season, I'd be very pleased:

TW
Nicks
Rookie C
Chester/Hurt/Licht(may the best man win)
Smith

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 29, 2011 9:13 AM EST up reply actions  

this starting lineup...

improves our depth, with Light and Monty now backups (instead of Cook – UGH!!!!) Jamaal can now backup both LT / RT (unless his contract is too expensive for backup duty).

by jgibbsfan1 on Dec 29, 2011 10:47 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm fine with this except for RT

Still believe we need to add another RT in the 2nd or 3rd round to compete with smith.

When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey

by Redskin44 on Dec 29, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't be opposed to adding a guy like Adcock or Potter in the 2nd.

As of this moment, with no combine or pro day to go on, I’m leaning towards Potter.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 29, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

But if we make a move

For luck or rg3 we may not have a 2nd or 3rd round pick

When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey

by Redskin44 on Dec 29, 2011 11:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Correction

If we make a move for luck or rg3 we may will not have a 2nd or 3rd round pick

by StephanHart on Dec 30, 2011 9:10 AM EST up reply actions  

so

we have TW, Licht, Monty(or maybe a center in the 4th), Chester and Smith. Also, who ever we may decide to get in FA.

Whom ever we add in FA, is likely to bump one of our starters to reserve. Who ever we add in the draft is depth.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 30, 2011 9:12 AM EST up reply actions  

So we are

taking Luck and then building the rest of the team via free agency. Sounds familiar

When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey

by Redskin44 on Dec 30, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

How does this sound familiar?

When have we EVER traded up for the number 1 spot in the draft, and when have we ever drafted what analysts believed to be the best QB?

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 30, 2011 6:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Here are some tidbits for you to chew on, for Willie Smith:

Smith is listed at 6’5" 310 lbs.

Smith came to East Carolina as a Defensive End. He redshirted in 2006. As a freshmen in 2007, he saw action, mainly on special teams, and some as a DE and DT. He started out his sophomore season as a TE, but was moved to Offensive Tackle 3 games into the 2008 season. He saw limited action as a reserve linemen and played on special teams. In 2009 he bacame the starting LT for the Pirates, and never looked back. He started the final 27 games of his career at LT. In 2010, he was the leader of an offensive line that ranked 20th in the nation in fewest sacks allowed, 8th in passing offense, and 16th in scoring.

CBS Sports – A two-year starter at left tackle, Smith is a remarkable athlete with a lot of upside. He earned All-Conference USA honors each of the past two seasons, and might have a higher ceiling than any tackle prospect in the 2011 NFL Draft.

At this point in his development, Smith is too raw and inconsistent to project as a rookie starter in the NFL. Some offensive line coach is likely to be convinced he can coach Smith to block like Walter Jones every play, not just in spurts, and his draft status will reflect that potential of a probably Pro Bowler in two to three years. via CBS Sports

Positives: Excellent lateral agility, slide and ability to pull, trap and seal. Very quick, can bend knees, sink hips, anchor and generate power. Ideal frame for the NFL left tackle position properly proportioned with long arms and strong hands. Can look like Walter Jones for possessions when he uses proper technique, but not full games. Smart in the classroom. Healthy and durable.

Negatives: Former defensive lineman has less than three years experience playing offensive line. Has a tendency to resort to bad habits, most recently in the second half against Maryland in the Military Bowl, including getting too high, waist bending, being late off the snap and occasionally clearly missing an assignment. Too many times allowed the defensive end to get under his outside shoulder on wide rushes. Hand placement is inconsistent, but improving.

Smith had just two years at Offensive Tackle in college. He was labled as raw, but with a ton of upside at the position. Had he played all 4 years at East Carolina as an offensive linemen, we would likely have been looking at a mid-round pick or higher.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 29, 2011 9:02 AM EST reply actions  

A good report. If Smith gets more experience in the pros he may be able to move beyond backup status.

He has a good punch on pass protection and showed it against the Giants’ defensive end on an inside move.

by Jefferson1935 on Dec 29, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes

I agree. He’s got a strong upper body for a guy with such long arms.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 29, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

good article about OLs

can be found here: http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2011/12/28/2666570/2011-grading-our-offensive-line-to-the-best-in-the-nfl

In general it seems like every agrees that the OL needs at least a little improvement and the question is how to improve it. I think FAs plus mid to late draft picks could improve the situation enough.

by aFan4Life on Dec 29, 2011 1:40 PM EST reply actions  

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