Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: UFC 146 Results: Junior dos Santos TKO's Frank Mir

Redskins Need a Quarterback...A Look at Arizona's Nick Foles

With it being so close to Christmas, I've been feeling really lazy. But I felt guilty not doing anything this week so I thought I would look at Arizona quarterback prospect, Nick Foles. I'll say now I'm not going to bother with any pictures for this post, just a general overview of what I saw on film in bullet point form.

Now that I've lost half of you for not having any pictures, lets look at Foles up-side.

  • Foles stands at 6'5", 240 pounds. Ideal for a traditional pocket passing quarterback.
  • Pretty accurate passer. This season he's thrown 69.1% completion percentage. This is helped by his offense being made up of a lot of short high completion rate throws, but I think his accuracy is fine in general.
  • Displays a good play fake and pump fake ability. Sells both well and gets defenders to bite on them, buying time and space for his receivers.
  • A lot of sites project him to run a 4.92 40 yard dash. But his doesn't reflect his true mobility. He can run bootlegs and roll-outs effectively.
  • He knows exactly when to step up into the pocket to avoid the outside rush, and when to get out of the pocket altogether.

Star-divide

  • He can throw well on the run.
  • Has shown that he can look of a safety, but fails to do so on a consistent basis.
  • Has a quick release for his height. A lot of 6'5" quarterbacks get a bad habit of holding the ball low forcing them to wind up as they begin the throwing motion. Foles holds it high and has a relatively quick delivery.

Then we have Foles downside/things he needs to improve.

  • He plays in a pistol offense, but the offense is built around a lot of short simple throws. A high percentage of his throws are slants, screens, throws to the flats and quick in/outs. Doesn't mean he can't do the other throws but these aren't tough for a quarterback to do and don't impress scouts (Blaine Gabbart had a similar offense -not pistol but short passing game, didn't show us anything special).
  • Arm strength is a huge question. Arm strength can be one of the most over-valued traits of a quarterback, but there is such a thing as an 'NFL arm'. There are big doubts as to whether Foles has the ability to make all the NFL throws (such as the 40 yard corner throw to the opposite hash mark - among the hardest throws in the NFL)
  • His deep throws (and worryingly some of his intermediate throws) have a tendency to hang in the air, giving defenders time to locate the ball and make a play on it. It can also disrupt the timing between a quarterback and his receiver. If the ball hangs in the air, the receiver will have to slow down or even stop and come back to get the ball.
  • His arm strength problems appear to come from his footwork, or lack there of. When he has time in the pocket to step into his throws, he delivers them with good zip and velocity which leads me to believe his arm strength can be improved with a few years of good coaching. But a lot of his problems come when he doesn't have a perfectly clean pocket. while he does a good job of avoiding pressure, he fails to reset his feet properly. This can lead to all sorts of problems, all of which I've seen at one point or another on film. These can be over-striding in his throwing stride which causes the ball to sail over the head of receivers (Jake Locker suffered from this problem in college) or the reverse where his feet get too close and he throws it into the ground (like we saw with Donovan McNabb).
  • His release is slightly odd. It's a lot lower than it should be, as you can sort of make out in the picture above. His elbow drops meaning the ball comes out pretty low (and with less zip behind it). Luckily he's 6'5", which means he gets away with it and rarely has any passes batted down at the line of scrimmage.
  • Has a slight tendency to throw with just his arm when throwing to his right or across the middle. This may sound odd, but to make an accurate throw your whole body goes into the throw. He throws better to his left because he's forced to open his chest, turn his hips which gives his arm a built up momentum to get power behind the throw. When he throws to his right in particular, he doesn't have to open his chest or turn his hips, so his arm loses power. Again, this is something that could be fixed with a few years of good coaching, but is a bad habit to get into.

So those are my notes on Foles. I may revisit this closer to the draft and add pictures. I ultimately think he'll be a second to fourth round pick (it's too early at this point to pin him to one round, having not looked at all the other prospects). Is he a quarterback to catch Shanahan's eye? I'm not too sure. On the plus side he excels at selling play-action, fairly accurate on the run and is ideal size. But I feel that his mechanics need at least 2 years of solid coaching to get him ready for the NFL. It remains to be seen just how much he can improve his arm strength and Shanahan's offense is built on the deep shot to force safeties back and open up the run game. I'm not sure Shanahan is going to take a guy that needs a lot of work when he could well be on the hot seat next year. But what do you think?

I hope you all enjoyed a little bit of a change up from my usual type of post. Merry Christmas and happy holidays to you all.

Poll
Should the Redskins use a 2nd or 3rd pick on Nick Foles?
Yes
157 votes
No
233 votes

390 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 57 comments  |  1 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

I like Foles

But prefer Tannehill in 2nd

West Springfield Spartans OUTSIDE LB #47
HTTR

by SpartanFS47 on Dec 23, 2011 6:33 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Tannehill tannnehill tannehill ????????????????????????????????

Everyone is mocking Tannehill now. WHY??? Lets not REACH for the next best qb in the draft. 3 scenarios can happen and none of them involve Tannehill.
1. Draft Andrew Luck…whatever it takes. it’ll kill our draft for several years, but will put ALL qb discussions to bed. So we can get on the board and b*tch about DHall or Trent Williams instead of our pudgy lil QB.
2. Draft RG3…again, whatever it takes.
3. BUILD OUR TEAM for another year. Draft a qb in 2013. We can trade back, get weapons, and have a team in place for our new qb in 2013. You may ask, “how can we sit through another year of rex?” IF WE HAD played Rex all year, we’d be fighting for a playoff spot. We have a good team.
Here’s my mock for scenario #3.
Trade back to 15-20, adding another 2nd.
1.Alshon Jeffery-wr-sc
2. Chase Minnifield—cb-uva
2. Dwayne Allen—te—clemson
3.Levi Adcock—ot—osu
4. Lucas Nix—og—pitt
4. Kellen Moore—qb—boise
5.Chris Gallipo—ilb—usc
6. Landon Walker—ot—clemson
7.Harrison Smith—s—notre dame

So at the end of the day: NO FOLES. Give me RG3, Luck, or 2013’s class. You may ask, “why do you have Moore in the 4th, if you dont want a qb?” My answer, “Somebody’s gotta take Beck’s place, right?”
HTTR!!!!

by jfield1111 on Dec 23, 2011 6:47 PM EST up reply actions  

So you're against us taking Tannehill?

I'm worried about the beer supply. After this case, and the other case, there's only one case left- Barney Gumble

by CptChaosSidekick on Dec 23, 2011 7:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

he's fairly mobile and has a decent arm

but, i think we’re reaching because Barkleys gone. RG3 and Luck are our guys. Lets go and get em or keeping building our team…Tannehill is the 2nd girl you ask to the prom cuz the first one said “no”

by jfield1111 on Dec 23, 2011 7:30 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

Redskins @RGIII - 2012

by Copious 1 on Dec 23, 2011 7:56 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

at least

it’s a guaranteed hand jibber

"Women should have three breasts - two in front and one in the back for dancing." -Al Bundy

by HankMonahan on Dec 23, 2011 8:35 PM EST up reply actions  

RG3 will be a bust in the NFL.

Mark it down and i will take my praise for calling it this time next year.

Troy Aikman is the greatest announcer of all time.

by Jeff Bernard on Dec 23, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Why?

Redskins @RGIII - 2012

by Copious 1 on Dec 23, 2011 9:28 PM EST up reply actions  

i don't have a definitive answer. when i watch him play i don't see NFL quarterback

if i had to try and pin it down it would be because his size, style of play, type of offense he is in, level of defensive competition. None of those things in themselves are the reason and for each you can find someone who is worse in that particular area who still had success in the NFL. But when i add them all up in my mind and when i watch him play his hype is so out of proportion to how productive he will be. I just don’t like the Big 12 for producing elite QBs and definitely not any i would take with a top 10 pick.

Troy Aikman is the greatest announcer of all time.

by Jeff Bernard on Dec 23, 2011 9:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Why would Tannehill be the second?

Landry Jones would be the second. Is he the prototype for Shanahan’s “system?” No, he’s not. However, I still think he’s good enough to merit tweaking your system for, and if the current mocks hold true (not a chance) he’ll be on the board when we pick.

If we can’t have Luck, and we’re not sold on any of the second tier guys, Jones is a much better choice.

by tuckwell on Dec 24, 2011 3:29 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't think Shanahan tweaks his system for any player

We (he) need to take the right player for the system

The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button

by Skins Fan '77 on Dec 24, 2011 9:10 AM EST up reply actions  

haha

very well said

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 24, 2011 9:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Altho I disagree about Tannehill (I think he might have the talent & tools to be a very good QB in the NFL)

I like your picks & agree with your reasoning, I would take Chris Marve from Vandy in the 5th over Gallipo but those are good players & about where they are likely to go in April.

by ENsDad27 on Dec 23, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

If Im drafting a Wr in round 1 its not Alshon Jeffery

Michael Floyd is a beast and will be spectacular at the next level if he can keep away from the off the field troubles. We are decent at tight end so i would go zebrie sanders with that extra second rounder.

by davetrembling on Dec 23, 2011 8:00 PM EST up reply actions  

What I was thinking

We already have some trouble brewing with two of our better players, why risk adding fuel to the fire?

The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button

by Skins Fan '77 on Dec 24, 2011 9:11 AM EST up reply actions  

So no

QB, and three picks gone before an O lineman is picked? No thanks. We already had a problem getting our young wide receivers playing time. A big wide receiver is a need, but not as big a need 3 or 4 other positions.

Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.

by CJHutch on Dec 23, 2011 8:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I like scenario 3 the best

but I don’t like the order you went in. I’d rather have 2 OL with our first 2 picks. And I’d also rather just trade out of the 1st round entirely and pick up another first next year in addition to another 2nd and 3rd/4th this year. That would be nice.

by TheDeepBall on Dec 23, 2011 10:33 PM EST up reply actions  

It's simple supply < demand

The fact is that we aren’t a crappy enough team to get an early enough draft pick to get a really good QB without trading some picks. Every year there are 6-10 teams that could use a really good QB prospect and every year the top QBs get drafted very quickly.

If they are a good QB prospect they will be drafted in the 1st round regardless of what year it is – that’s just the way it is.

Planning on getting a really good QB prospect with a 2nd or 3rd round pick is a silly dream.

So it’s really Luck or RGIII because we need a QB now, not eventually.

No more Grossman!

by aFan4Life on Dec 24, 2011 8:53 AM EST up reply actions  

SpartanFs47

In your mock scenario #3, you have the team taking a TE, Dwayne Allen out of Clemson. Does that mean you are not re-signing Fred Davis? Or are you trading Chris Cooley? And what about Logan Paulson? I was just wondering where you are going with this pick, because I like to play GM too! HTTR!

by Clyde Niblack on Dec 23, 2011 11:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for the chuckle UK
Now that I’ve lost half of you for not having any pictures, lets look at Foles up-side.

by willster on Dec 23, 2011 7:07 PM EST reply actions  

if were going to wait till the second

I would rather have tannehill (I think that’s how it’s spelled?) And call ne crazy but I wouldn’t mind spending a 4th on maybe Moore?

by no more kwame's in dc on Dec 23, 2011 7:23 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

no ty

i dont want foles. rather get matt flynn from FA and maybe trade back in the first to build up future picks. i would not mind a trade up if the cost isnt too high. i guessing if some1 trades up for luck the cost to trade up for rpg wont be as high. but maybe will get lucky and we will lose the last 2 and we can draft rg3 for free

by munson21502 on Dec 23, 2011 7:46 PM EST reply actions  

no thanks on Flynn

he hasn’t done anything good in the NFL.

by aFan4Life on Dec 24, 2011 8:54 AM EST up reply actions  

+1638449379;6&&48756876655

Counting cards isn't illegal. It's frowned upon, like masturbating on an airplane.

by jbh1190 on Dec 23, 2011 10:07 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

because there arer no none project qb available when we draft

When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey

by Redskin44 on Dec 24, 2011 12:16 AM EST up reply actions  

no sense in taking him in the 2nd to take a few years to develop

Get a qb next year. A tier 1 guy.

Counting cards isn't illegal. It's frowned upon, like masturbating on an airplane.

by jbh1190 on Dec 23, 2011 10:04 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions  

This.

Build the team now, grab a top QB next year. Give the rookies we get this year a season to develop, creating a strong team for a Rookie QB to take to the next level.

by TheDeepBall on Dec 23, 2011 10:34 PM EST up reply actions  

What makes you think we will be in position next year to draft a tier 1 guy?

A 7-9 season and we’re talking about pick 13ish next year. And there will be other teams competeing for the QBs then, too. All the tier one guys may be gone next before that pick.

So how exactly are we supposed to magically grab that QB next year? We’ll STILL have needs, still have too few picks for all of our needs, etc.

Where does the “we’ll do that next year” end?

No Danny, Nooooooo - Tom Landry, 1982., and Washington Redskins fans, 1999-

by BillWard on Dec 23, 2011 10:40 PM EST up reply actions  

People like me and jbh have been advocating trade downs

in order to pick up an extra 1st rounder next year. This way we have the ammunition to trade up and take one of the top QBs next year. The options next year should include Bray, Barkley, Jones, and possibly Griffin if he stays this year, and also possibly Murray if he declares.

by TheDeepBall on Dec 23, 2011 11:15 PM EST up reply actions  

what did we get last year for the trade down?

and how many spots did we go back?i would love to pick up a teams next year number 1. but who will left by the time we pick that will be worth a 1st rounder to trade up for?

by munson21502 on Dec 24, 2011 12:34 AM EST up reply actions  

We went down 6 spots

at the moment we’re drafting 7th as opposed to 10th, which is an enormous difference in value.

A trade back to somewhere between 25 and 30 should net us not only a team’s first next year, but a 2nd and 3rd this year. I’d also like to see us trade back again from there and pick up another 4th.

by TheDeepBall on Dec 24, 2011 4:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Not "A first rounder" but two.

Trades that net a first round pick the following year are block busters. Last year there was ONE trade like that and it was huge, with most folks laughing at how badly the trading team got ripped off.

They don’t happen often. I want to see which GM out there is going to give us this magical trade that nets us a 1st rounder the following year. On the other hand, I’d rather not, because he’s going to look like someones rear, ‘cuz that’s where this trade is coming from.

You can almost as readily assume that we’ll be able to get all 31 other teams to agree to DONATE their #1 to us, so we get to choose the first 32 players next year. The only players typically worth trading future #1s for is (surprise) the players we’re talking about taking…. a franchise QB.

No Danny, Nooooooo - Tom Landry, 1982., and Washington Redskins fans, 1999-

by BillWard on Dec 24, 2011 7:17 AM EST up reply actions  

exactly

the assumptions that trades can be made aren’t very realistic.

by aFan4Life on Dec 24, 2011 8:56 AM EST up reply actions  

bill this is a very good chance...

no way our schedule will be as easy as it was this year. no way the nfc east teams will be in the shape they was in when we played them this year. if we dont get a good qb we will be about the same as this year maybe worse. so i think we have a good shot at a top qb next year. thats why i got so pissed with these late season wins and wanted just 1 really bad season instead of 3 to 5 years of 5-11 to 8-8 seasons.

by munson21502 on Dec 24, 2011 12:01 AM EST up reply actions  

if we take Foles...

it’s just ANOTHER pick. That does not solve our QB issues. Especially, if what UK says is true, he needs two years to develop before he is even ready for the NFL.

Hey, since we are relying on “the needle in a hey stack” philosophy, who knows, Foles MAY become the Greatest QB to ever Play the Game.

by jgibbsfan1 on Dec 24, 2011 6:49 AM EST reply actions  

John Elway two seasons before he was "ready" as well.

He played those seasons, and looked awful.

We all know how long Aaron Rogers sat.

Drew Brees took two seasons. Thats why the Chargers ended up with Philip Rivers.

Montana took a season.

Brady sat a bit, though it wasn’t long.

Peyton Manning was good almost from day one, so there is one in your corner, and I’ll throw in Marino, too, though to be honest he needed a half season to catch on. But the point is that most QBs need a bit of time to be “starter quality”, even the elite ones, regradless of if they are starting or not.

So just because UK says he’s going to need two years doesn’t mean he won’t start at some point during 2012 and from day 1 in 2013… just he won’t hit his stride until towards the end of that season.

No Danny, Nooooooo - Tom Landry, 1982., and Washington Redskins fans, 1999-

by BillWard on Dec 24, 2011 7:24 AM EST up reply actions  

I know...

I’m just not that excited about him becoming “elite”. I grew up in Arizona, I root for the Wildcats, so I wouldn’t mind selecting him. I am just pessimistic about him becoming the man…

by jgibbsfan1 on Dec 24, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

But look at the Qb's coming in recently. Cam Newton--star day one. Matt Ryan--solid from day one.

Stafford—struggled but also had some awesome games as a rookie.
Bradford—good from day 1
Eli Manning

And then the the two best rookie QB’s—Jamarcus Russel and Alex Smith(although to be fair Smith has had an awesome year out of nowhere.)

by tw10 on Dec 30, 2011 6:29 AM EST up reply actions  

If you guys like this format

without pictures, I can do a lot more of them because they are so much quicker to do.

by UkRedskin on Dec 24, 2011 7:44 AM EST reply actions  

Yes please

Always quality reading and I have been remiss in thanking you for all the good posts.

The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button

by Skins Fan '77 on Dec 24, 2011 9:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

These are awesome, no pictures needed. Please keep them (and others) coming.

by SCSkin21 on Dec 24, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

As ever, all prospective quarterback’s will have their strengths and weaknesses scrutinised in the build-up to the draft but, in my view, of huge importance to any potential Redskin QB will be his mental strength.

Whoever the Redskins draft at this position will be, from the very outset, under the microscope from the DC media and Redskin fanbase desperate for a franchise quarterback. Of course, all NFL QB’s are always under intense scrutiny and therefore require the requisite character, but the 20 year or so search in Washington has raised the bar.

Fortunately, the Redskins place great emphasis on drafting high character guys and no doubt the same will be true of a Shanahan QB. It is, of course, imperative that the prospective Redskin has the neccessary fundamentals to run the Shanahan offense, but of equal importance is the harder-to-judge intangibles. ’Twas ever thus.

by English Redskin on Dec 24, 2011 8:07 AM EST reply actions  

a trade for Luck or RGIII is looking better

waiting until next year is not an option IMO and there isn’t a FA QB worth picking up.

by aFan4Life on Dec 24, 2011 8:57 AM EST reply actions  

Many of you

are assuming we are dead in the water because Barkley decided to go back.

We are just fine. I would have taken Barkley, but truth be told, I was kind of hoping he was the choice of another team ahead of us, leaving both RG3 or Jones for us to choose from. Those two options are still alive as of now, as is trading up for Luck.

Shanny and Allen will do what is necessary to get us our QB. If it means trading up, so be it.

These 2nd tier guys are just that, ……………………….second tier guys. The time for settling on another average QB to lead this team is over.

I’m personally content as hell to sit, and draft Jones.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 24, 2011 9:22 AM EST reply actions  

I Don't know about Foles but

From the one picture and your analysis on his mechanics he sounds like a project. How about this outside scenario; Round 1 we pick up a Sean Taylor type safety, huge hitter, good range, big soft hands. Round 2 a linebacker to play next to London and eventually replace him. Round 3 offensive tackle to replace or play next to Cheech. The rest of the rounds Qb’s to make sure we get a good one. If this draft were to happen the question would arise: can we win the bowl next year? I doubt it: so let’s say we give away the season and get the first pick, like Indy. this year, Then trade that pick for a future of greatness. Just one way out perspective, and other than the 012 season would be exciting.

" For though 1 was the son of Zeus, as he
Of Cronus, yet I bore great misery
Beyond all bound, to a far worser man
Made subject, who set grievous tasks on me.

by Sam Beckett on Dec 24, 2011 1:52 PM EST reply actions  

SLIGHT tendency.

Every QB has their faults, every one of them.

Foles is a QB who should project into a 10-13 QB with an average team (in other words, he’s going to be somewhat better than the average starting QB, but not “Elite”) With a better OL and WRs around him, he could after a few seasons be in the 7-10 range, ala Eli Manning or Tony Romo. So you and a bunch of others saying “No” are saying that we HAVE to have someone better than them? Eli’s got a ring. Romo doesn’t. Both may be able to get one/another in the next few years, and neither is the problem on their team.

I’m more than good with Foles… in Shanny’s system, he could be quite good. No, he’s not likely to project to John Elway, Dan Marino, etc. But he could still be very good for us.

No Danny, Nooooooo - Tom Landry, 1982., and Washington Redskins fans, 1999-

by BillWard on Dec 24, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

the thing about Eli

he leads the league in 4thQ passer rating and TDs this season….at 30yrs old he may very well be establishing himself as one of the top qb’s

by DCrez on Dec 24, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

the dude has a good team

3 maybe 4 good wrs. two good rbs. pretty good line… i have no idea how they have such trouble… i like to blame eli lol

by munson21502 on Dec 24, 2011 10:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Media Requests please email hogshaven@gmail.com

Managers

Superbowl_small Kevin Ewoldt

Riggins_small Ken Meringolo

Editors

Sb_small Parks Smith

Small Steve Shoup

Chalkboard_football-opt403x300o00s403x300_small UkRedskin

Washington_redskins_helmet_small Redskins News

Authors

Badshirt2__2__small fatpickle

Family_in_disney_small Tiller56

Rg3super_small HTTR4LIFE

Hh_small Ronnie Adkins