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Around SBN: VIDEO: Veterans Share Favorite Sports Memories

Looks Like Someone Has a Sixpack of the Mondays

1. I spent a good amount of time yesterday thinking, "Well, it wasn't Rexy's fault." And though I believe that to be true today, the fact remains that under his watch, we turn the ball over. Religiously. As many of you know, I have adopted a real "Love the one you're with" mentality for this 2011 Redskins team. Initially, I think I had actually talked myself into believing that Grossman was going to "become a different quarterback" for Kyle Shanahan and really "resurrect his career." On one hand, I might argue that we should not move to judgment after our team faced arguably one of the NFL's top three or four teams. On the other hand, these games are exactly the kinds of contests that we should be using to judge the progress of our organization. Win or lose, we can learn a lot about ourselves in games against the best. As for Rex, what I am learning is that he is certainly capable of contributing to wins in this offense. He is capable of identifying receivers and routes that come open and he has shown the ability to think and react quickly. While we can not hang the #8 car out to dry on every offensive turnover we make, at some point we should recognize that there is something horribly magical about his...involvement. Despite this, Rex has shown some real grit this season, and more than ever, I do believe he will be the starting quarterback for the Washington Redskins in 2012 on Opening Day. And yes, I know how this debate goes, so let me as clear as possible: Rexy will "beat out" whichever rookie we draft during training camp, but will give way late in games to the newcomer. Assuming we are not undefeated, and if the rookie is ready, I see the Shanahans planning to go there around Week 4-5ish. By that point, Rexy will have done enough on film for the rookie to have a decent sense of what to do and what not to do. And yes...the drama around who should start and when the Shanahans should bench Grossman is going to really, really suck.

Star-divide

2. Has anyone else wised up yet and put their money with mine: on Denver to make it to the AFC Championship Game and then into the Super Bowl? As I watched that game yesterday, I never for a second thought the Broncos were going to lose. I was not alone. That defense just makes plays. And though they received some help from our good friend Marion Barber, they helped themselves by pushing Barber out of bounds and by getting an arm on that ball he fumbled in overtime. Grossman is not cursed, and neither is our franchise, but if you want to consider the kind of attribute that should stand alone at the top of any wish list for quarterbacks, look no further than Tim Tebow. Just as turnovers and close losses tend to follow Rexy around, winning and confidence is what seems to perpetually surround Timmy. Is there a more important stat to judge starting quarterbacks on than wins? Just to close the loop from the first item in today's Sixpack, it is not that Rex Grossman is a loser--he is not a loser. He just isn't the kind of winner that elevates the "winningness" of everyone around him. The good news for us is that Tim Tebow is not the only player who possesses this quality. It does occur naturally in elite, blue-chip quarterbacks. We'll get ours soon enough.

3. The one thing I looked forward to most going into yesterday's game was watching how New England uses Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez. It should be illegal the way they abuse defenses. As the box score would indicate, the show was worth the price of admission. Call me crazy, but I would take an offense based around two tight ends over any other kind in the league. (Insert your own joke here.) I am happy to debate whether Chris Cooley and Fred Davis are the two guys we want there--I am in favor of Chris Cooley being one of them--but having the tight ends as the centerpieces of the attack is the way to go in my opinion. Further, if a tight end is a rookie quarterback's best friend, imagine how happy the rookie would be if we had TWO!

4. At the tailgate yesterday, I found myself having to defend the following statement: "Getting Jarvis Jenkins back next year will be the equivalent of signing a free agent stud defensive tackle." Was I really that far off base? I will grant that he has not been adequately tested yet in the fires of the regular season, but I thought it was becoming clear that he could contribute at a high level. Sure, there is always a question mark when it comes to healing from injuries--especially for a big man--but that wasn't even really the issue I had to argue. I was making the point that because of Jenkins' return, we should be able to look to other positions at the top of the draft. Is that so crazy?

5. For a fanbase that has suffered long droughts with no championships (Red Sox and Patriots for a while there), the New England fans that showed up to FedEx were among the most classless I have seen this year. I sat next to an older gentlemen that was supporting the Patriots and by the end of the game, he was yelling at his fellow fans, "You're embarrassing me and yourselves!" For a team that has been so dominant in recent years, I expected a certain air of superiority, but what I saw was a bit shocking. There's a place for that kind of dirty, intentionally confrontational, disgraceful behavior: it's called Philadelphia. Perhaps I just expected more from fans who have weathered dark times and possibly could relate to our plight. To all of you Patriots fans who make your way to this page today: If you're scratching your head wondering how you got beat by Tebow next week, it's called KARMA.

6. Roy Helu continues to make the case that he can be "our guy" next season. This is yet another very popular debate I gladly enter into frequently. I am good with Helu. I would love to go with him in 2011. Are there still a lot of you out there that only see him as a quality ingredient in a running back platoon? I also believe in Tim Hightower and I remain hopeful he comes back next year fully healthy--we will very much need him. There is something about Helu though that gives him the edge for me...maybe it is simply because we drafted him. Before we waste too much energy on this though, think back 12 months to when Ryan Torain was the "can't miss, unquestioned returning starter" for Mike Shanahan.

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Comments

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Thoughts on Royster?

I think gmhe did decent in his back-up role.

West Springfield Spartans OUTSIDE LB #47
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by SpartanFS47 on Dec 12, 2011 3:44 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

He looked pretty solid, although he did seem to have the same Clinton Portis turf monster issues.

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Dec 12, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

agree on jarvis

we should definitely focus on other positions in the draft or via free agency (i also believe we should resign adam carriker)….i found it interesting during the game yesterday, the announcers mentioned a conversation they had with shanahan in which he said he was rebuilding this team in phases, first year was evaluation, second year was focused on defense, and this upcoming year will be focused on offense…i’m patient enough to let this play out, i think we’re a QB and a stable offensive line away from having a consistent offense to pair with our much improved defense

As for me, all I know is that I know nothing.
*Socrates*

by atark001 on Dec 12, 2011 3:46 PM EST reply actions  

Yea I'm for re-signing AC

West Springfield Spartans OUTSIDE LB #47
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by SpartanFS47 on Dec 12, 2011 3:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Hmmmm. I must have missed that conversation.

Honestly, it makes a ton of sense. I honestly believe we are headed in teh right direction.

Do you remember when that was mentioned?

by mbedner on Dec 12, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

i don't recall the quarter

but i remember dan dierdorf said it

As for me, all I know is that I know nothing.
*Socrates*

by atark001 on Dec 12, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Man CBS is refreshing, so much better than Moose Johnston and Sirgusa babbling for 4 hours

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Dec 12, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Another reason for the team to get better

so we can get the top announcers. Next year, Troy Aikman and Joe Buck every game!

Formerly KS and CS

by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Dec 12, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions  

i concur

or high school shots of jim mora, jr…..plus i’m a big james brown fan in their pregame show as well

As for me, all I know is that I know nothing.
*Socrates*

by atark001 on Dec 12, 2011 6:55 PM EST up reply actions  

i'm guessing carriker will want too much money

no way he is worth Bowen money

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 12, 2011 7:20 PM EST up reply actions  

i think he is

he’s played at a high level this year, rushes the passer well, not to mention the locker room presence he brings…a 3-4 end isn’t the most glamorous of positions, but those down linemen are key to letting our LBs loose

As for me, all I know is that I know nothing.
*Socrates*

by atark001 on Dec 12, 2011 8:04 PM EST up reply actions  

how is he not??

he’s got more sacks, hits, pressures, tackles and tackles for a loss (or no gain) than Carriker, and sets the edge far better.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 12, 2011 8:15 PM EST up reply actions  

yea i was thinking about that earlier too

he’s not worth what we pay bowen, especially in light of jarvis’ return…bruce allen has seemed to put fair offers on the table so far, so i think he’d be willing to resign considering he seems to like playing here and has resurrected his career here…but yea if he’s asking for too much, let him walk

As for me, all I know is that I know nothing.
*Socrates*

by atark001 on Dec 12, 2011 8:00 PM EST up reply actions  

the problem is he he got a couple cheap sacks so now he's going to be overvalued

Carriker’s a solid player, but he’s not a starting caliber guy, and my guess is that is the kinda money that he will want.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 12, 2011 8:17 PM EST up reply actions  

true

it’ll be interesting to see how it plays out. we need a couple quality ends in the rotation to keep the line fresh and performing well deep into the season.

As for me, all I know is that I know nothing.
*Socrates*

by atark001 on Dec 12, 2011 8:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm hoping that Carriker knows his real value...

and is thankful to Haz for pulling for him to get a second chance

by ptowny on Dec 13, 2011 8:55 AM EST up reply actions  

I hear Carriker's name...

….and immediately the image of that missed tackle on Shonn Greene 2 weeks ago pops into my head. No self-respecting NFL D-lineman should let an RB run straight through him

by JD For Breakfast on Dec 13, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I was wrong on the patriot fans

A friend of mine was heading to the game and he we were talking about what to expect from the fan bases. I told him I would be surprised if that many kins fans showed up and that he could expect a lot of pats fan. But I had no idea those pats fans would be a bunch of wanna be philthy fans. At least we made them sweat. I haven’t talked to my friend yet to see how the game was up there in the 416’s but i’m interested to know.

The Beat Box aka skins secondary.

by Al_CaPWNED on Dec 12, 2011 3:55 PM EST reply actions  

I'd be OK with having Rex in for 4 games next year

we can let him have that spectacular first month he has had in every season of career and then bench him before he falls off the cliff. Sounds like a plan.

by TheDeepBall on Dec 12, 2011 3:56 PM EST reply actions  

The Skins do not need a lot of 2012 film of Grossman. There is enough Grossman history available from 2010 and

2011. Hopefully the rookie will not need Grossman’s 2012 example.
“Assuming we are not undefeated, and if the rookie is ready, I see the Shanahans planning to go there around Week 4-5ish. By that point, Rexy will have done enough on film for the rookie to have a decent sense of what to do and what not to do.”

There should be improved OL depth if not starter quality. The new QB should be more proficient in his own right. If the rookie gets enough preseason play it should shorten the growth process. Steve has suggested that the new QB should sit, but this should be minimized. Grossman has already shown us how to lose games. An improved OL would keep this QB from being abused too much.

by Jefferson1935 on Dec 12, 2011 9:45 PM EST up reply actions  

This is not a system that a guy can just come in and win with

you have to learn it first. The rookie is going to need time to get a better grasp of the playbook.

by TheDeepBall on Dec 12, 2011 10:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I know it's a big playbook...

but I’m guessing if we select a 1st round quarterback, he is going to be of the high charachter, hard working breed that will dedicate himself to learning the playbook in 4 months. I’d really like to see some of those player organzied workouts that we had during the lockout happen in the offseason before OTA’s…get the young QB accustomed to NFL speed and his new receivers

by ptowny on Dec 13, 2011 8:58 AM EST up reply actions  

save the date now...

Redskins @ New Orleans

"You know those balls that they put on car antennas so you can find them in the parking lot? Those should be on every car!" - Homer Simpson

by Kevin Ewoldt on Dec 12, 2011 4:04 PM EST reply actions  

Is that why you went to the Tampa game? Scouting?

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Dec 12, 2011 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

#4

I had the conversation today and completely agree with it. He is a free starter next year that will replace probably the weakest part of the DEF line

by Hustler of Culture on Dec 12, 2011 4:06 PM EST reply actions  

#5 - Pats Fans

I said this earlier on Pats fans, but they didn’t actually suffer through bad times because there were no Pats fans before 2001. I was in Boston in 1996 when they went to the Super Bowl – no one cared. The general sentiment was, “huh, football?”

by Hustler of Culture on Dec 12, 2011 4:08 PM EST reply actions  

Well this would certainly explain the douche baggetry
I said this earlier on Pats fans, but they didn’t actually suffer through bad times because there were no Pats fans before 2001

That embarrassed middle aged man was probably an old fan that did suffer thru the dark times.

by PAinfUL on Dec 12, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I’ve been telling myself this for 20 years now…
___________ is not the only player who possesses this quality. It does occur naturally in elite, blue-chip quarterbacks. We’ll get ours soon enough

by The Derper on Dec 12, 2011 4:11 PM EST reply actions  

Good Rex/Bad Rex

I’ll take Rex over John Beck.

But, I hope he’s not the starter in Week 1 of the 2012 season.

The dream situation is that Andrew Luck tells the Colts that he won’t play for them and he ends up with the Redskins!

by Jim Bob 585 on Dec 12, 2011 4:28 PM EST reply actions  

where did he say he wanted to play again

If my memory’s right I think he said VA?

Maybe… just maybe there’s a little hope

by no more kwame's in dc on Dec 12, 2011 4:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

My Girlfriend is a Patriots fan

She was scared to shit yesterday on that last drive. I was so happy, but then Moss tossed it to Mayo.

Dear Passionate fan, I know you are passionate, but please reply with a logical answer or I will ignore you.

by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 12, 2011 4:28 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Needless to say yes her cousins are classless pats fans. Ugh.

Dear Passionate fan, I know you are passionate, but please reply with a logical answer or I will ignore you.

by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 12, 2011 4:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Regarding the turnovers

They are somewhat amazing. You know, going in, that Rex will be part of at least two turnovers. And everyone on here knows that if he gets to the fourth quarter with less than two, we all have one of two thoughts: “Maybe he’ll finish the game without another turnover, wouldn’t that be great.” or “What’s the most creative way I can think of that Rex will be involved with a turnover before the end of this game?”

I have to say, throwing it to Moss, then having him throw it to the linebacker was very creative by Rex.

Formerly KS and CS

by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Dec 12, 2011 5:01 PM EST reply actions  

Is there a more important stat to judge starting quarterbacks on than wins?

Yes, there is. Lots of them.

Football is a team sport. And Denver’s offense is terrible.

yesterday’s game is a great example why that win doesn’t belong anywhere near Tebow’s resume.

defense forces an unlikely game saving turnover.
kicker hits a FIFTY NINE yarder to send it to OT
then nails a 51 yarder to win.

What did Tebow do? Throw for 230 on 50% passing.

He sucks.

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Dec 12, 2011 5:15 PM EST reply actions  

yeah it's quite amazing what he did in the 4th and overtime

but to look solely at that ignores just how awful he was earlier. Same thing with prasing Sanchez for that Holmes pass against us. One great pass doesn’t make up for 15 mediocre ones, and 12 awful ones.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 12, 2011 7:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Denver had a ton of drops early too. If you take the team concept take it when they are bad too.

by HogtieJim on Dec 12, 2011 10:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with just about everything you said here

However I will say this about Pats fans. I wasn’t at the game yesterday but my wife is from Mass. so I will partially defend the fanbase. New England is first and foremost a baseball area. They root for their other teams but baseball is king up there. Every fanbase has assholes, there are even assholes in our fanbase, but all of the Pats fans I know are good people. Just tell them you hate the Yankees and they will love you forever.

Also most people tend to forget that after being good for so long you are kind of hated just on princeple. By ’91 we were pretty much hated by every other fanbase in the NFL.

Once again I can’t atest to the Pats fans at the game yesterday just to every Pats fan I’ve ever met. I just think we should be careful to label a whole fanbase off of a few assholes. I wouldn’t want other fanbases to label all Skins fans assholes based on just a few pricks.

I want to get high, so high. I want to get high, so high. Sleepy, Silverback, and I are going to roll a blunt if anyone wants to join us.

by 64ShagginWagon on Dec 12, 2011 5:18 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

I don't think he labeled all of them a-holes.

He actually talked about an older gentleman who was reasonable. The silent majority just doesn’t get as much attention as the the obnoxious a-hole’s for obvious reasons.

by PAinfUL on Dec 12, 2011 5:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I;'m all for using 2TE formations

especially given our WR corps.

I still not a Tebow believer but I’m getting a lot closer. What did Buddy Ryan say about Cris Carter? “All he does is catch TDs” (or something like that). So is all that Tebow does is win games?

I thought the days of the option were long gone in the NFL…

by aFan4Life on Dec 12, 2011 5:23 PM EST reply actions  

the option is goign to stay gone. Denver's offense is terrible.

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Dec 13, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

on 4 and 6

i think jarvis will be even better next year. one of his big isusse has been strenth. im betting the dude gets alot stronger this year then he was going into pre season last year.

and i feel the same way as you do on 6. i would like to have helu a healthy tim high tower and ied like to have royster as a 3rd rb. i think those 3 could be good for us for a few years. then maybe get a good drft pick out of one of them in 2 years if we plan to move on

by munson21502 on Dec 12, 2011 5:29 PM EST reply actions  

about rex yesterday

did any 1 else notice he dont even look at the rbs when he goes back to pass? i mean he sits there and gets sacked while our rbs are waiving like crazy im open im open!. i think thats why our wrs give up on plays alot. if they run their rout and rex doesnt hit them they just seem to stop. they must know rex doesnt throw the ball to any1 but what the play is called for.

by munson21502 on Dec 12, 2011 5:36 PM EST reply actions  

I don't know

About the rest of his progression, but I do notice that he NEVER looks for the back. I said it in the thread last week, and again yesterday. I think it’s just engrained in him to go as deep as he can.

Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.

by CJHutch on Dec 12, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Isnt that engrained in us all?

West Springfield Spartans OUTSIDE LB #47
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by SpartanFS47 on Dec 12, 2011 6:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I knew this was coming

One of those statements that sounds different when you’re typing.

Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.

by CJHutch on Dec 12, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Zing

West Springfield Spartans OUTSIDE LB #47
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by SpartanFS47 on Dec 12, 2011 6:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Saw the same thing. Helu was open on check downs a lot.

Rexy doesn’t like check downs, unfortunately.

Sometimes Rex made a good downfield throw, but especially with a back as good as Helu, you have to check down more.

Coaches need to make Rex understand that he needs to minimize mistakes. Stop trying to play better than you are.

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Dec 13, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

About Pats fans

They are an obnoxious bunch, when they’re obnoxious. In other words, the bad ones are reallly, REALLY bad. I took a training class at work a few years back, and two guys from Boston came down to take the class. I went out drinking with them one night, and one guy was just a straight asshole. Kept picking fights. When he took a shot at the Redskins in an argument, I told him to figure out his OWN way back to his hotel, and I left. Last year I found out he quit Amtrak, and now works as a MALE STRIPPER, at a gay club. I swear, I’m not making this up. His buddy couldn’t stop laughing when he told me.

Anyway, New England fans can be as pompous as they want. They are fast becoming the Phoenix Suns of football. There’s no doubt they will make the playoffs every year, but I think their Super Bowl days are over. I keep pointing this out to people,, I don’t know why no ones picked up on it. They are a victim of their own ego’s. Belichek’s and Brady’s, that is. Think about it, when were they winning Superbowls? When they were a dominant DEFENSE. What is Belichek’s MO? A defensive “mastermind”. Their Superbowls were won because Belichek could throw stuff out there that nobody thought of. Well now he’s turned his team into an offensive juggernaut, and where has that gotten him? An undefeated REGULAR season, and squat else. It’s great that their defense keeps getting worse. Now they HAVE to win shoot outs. Wait until Brady starts losing it. Then those obnoxious Pats fans will just go crawl back under a rock.

Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.

by CJHutch on Dec 12, 2011 5:52 PM EST reply actions  

I think Belichek has bought into his own hype

He thinks he can put any D player into his system and do wonders. They needed pass rushers last draft and instead they picked Oline and DBs. He needs a good personel guy more then we do. (Hoping our next draft is as good as this one)

I want to get high, so high. I want to get high, so high. Sleepy, Silverback, and I are going to roll a blunt if anyone wants to join us.

by 64ShagginWagon on Dec 12, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Linebacker? DB?

West Springfield Spartans OUTSIDE LB #47
HTTR

by SpartanFS47 on Dec 12, 2011 6:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Ha

he has a winning record as a starter still. Oh and has accounted for all of our wins this year.

by CommunistKevin on Dec 12, 2011 8:11 PM EST up reply actions  

5- Lack of Class

I’ve worked at the Jets/Giants stadium for the last couple of years and curious if the problem is prevalent in most major markets. Perhaps it is more likely a personality trait of some fanatics who are willing to devote extensive time to travel. The home market for New York, I can attest, is disgusting. I’ve seen plenty of classless visitors in New York(NJ) too. Conversely, I’ve also seen countless examples of beer bottles getting thrown at visitors with their children at their side, people laying in pools of blood, or if they are lucky, just their heads split open. I’m sure much of this also comes from antagonizing from the home fan base. Can anyone honestly say FedEx, a major market, is any different? I hope so.

by TheSportsManager on Dec 12, 2011 8:26 PM EST reply actions  

Shit will onlygo down

If you mess with Hogettes. I saw 2 Bears fans push a Hogette, turned into a 30 on 2 brawl in a second.

West Springfield Spartans OUTSIDE LB #47
HTTR

by SpartanFS47 on Dec 12, 2011 9:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

ugh. for $50 you can see your team…the team you have not seen play in person in years or ever…WIN a game. This is the core issue that we as Skins fans are seeing at FedEx. The only solution is to win our home games and send them home beer soaked and beaten. If we start winning home games, they won’t pay $100-150 to see their team lose. The fanatic fans will still show up, but the fringe fans (like we are seeing now) won’t show up.

by liger99 on Dec 12, 2011 10:38 PM EST up reply actions  

funny and true. As long as it’s in reason, i suppose. I’ve seen a lot f’d up stuff in NY/NJ. The Redskins fans represented well for the Jets and Giants games both, btw.

by TheSportsManager on Dec 12, 2011 10:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Pretty much why I stopped going to games.

I don’t want to pay that much money to be surrounded by too many violent, drunk people.

"By far the worst performers on the (R*dskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Dec 13, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Completely true about Pats fans!

I actually thought that last week the Jets had some classy guys, but the Patriots made me upset. Really not a good experience.

by Andrew DeFrank on Dec 12, 2011 8:40 PM EST reply actions  

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