Ten Yard Fight: Joe Paterno Has No Place in College Football...Ever Again
by Ken Meringolo on Nov 7, 2011 4:55 PM EST
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Print1. The Penn State story is simply disgusting. Please know that first and foremost, this story is about kids being taken advantage of in one of the worst and most horrifying ways imaginable. That should be what matters most going forward. I felt the need to say that up front because I do think there is more going on but I didn't want it to seem like my priorities were out of whack. You see, once again, people in positions of power found themselves with a choice: to either do the right thing regarding the abuse of young kids or make sure that the world kept revolving around them. Guess which one they chose? How F#*ked up is that? What is worse, these people work at a school!! They implore parents from all over the country to send their children to attend their institution! As far as I'm concerned, Penn State's brochures should have warning labels at least as shocking as cigarette boxes.
2. If you are Joe Paterno, and you are told that a former colleague of yours was engaged in the kind of behavior he was witnessed engaging in on the school's premises, how are you satisfied that passing on that information to the school's administration is enough? I only ask because Sandusky was reportedly still around the school/team facilities as recently as LAST WEEK!!! What did you think happened after you "reported" your friend? He was absolved and rehabilitated? Maybe the innocence that was stolen from those little kids was returned, intact?
3. Sorry JoePa, you can't claim the moral high ground here. You have sat in the living rooms of how many young boys and their families? You have spent how many days of your life assuring parents that their kids were not only safe at Penn State but that they were, in fact, protected with an extra layer of protection as a member of your football team? Come on, man.
4. I will stop shorter than some people who might suggest that JoePa is somehow as guilty as Sandusky. Until evidence supports such a claim, there has to be a distinction. That said, these crimes were committed by a man who seemed to really use his position and standing with Paterno to perpetrate them. To hear Joe Paterno suggest he did everything he was required to do by passing along information to questionable men is a joke. You don't get to be in Joe Paterno's position without being able to understand what kind of man your athletic director is...or any of the surrounding staff. Hell, you could argue that you don't get to Joe Paterno's position without being able to essentially hire your own athletic director.
5. Think of all the ways Joe Paterno has exercised his power over the years. Think of the actual, real power he has generated and administrated during his metamorphosis from man into Legendary Man. Think of both the real and imagined power that millions of people have assigned to him for no other reason than he won college football games. In this instance, don't you think there was a way that the "Joe Paterno" everyone thought existed could have gone a little farther than passing along a second-hand report of impropriety? You know...maybe to help a kid or two?
6. I want to know who the Nittany Lions were recruiting that year, at that time. I GUARANTEE you it was a player or players that they felt they could not afford to lose to news like this. We are beyond naive if we think that this was not a thought of someone at the time. I can imagine there were worse agendas prioritized than this, but the mere fact that we would believe that is bad enough.
7. Here is what we know about college football from the more recent headlines--not that ANY of this comes as a surprise: prestigious college football programs are literally surrounded by unsavory characters. College coaches and their staffs have ostensibly been on the front lines trying to fight away these wolves in sheep's clothing. Money, money, money...the figures involved have been astronomical, from the money these institutions make to the money athletes have allegedly been given. And yet, all along, you could generally point to a two-way street of impropriety. The boosters were willing to pay and certain athletes were willing to get paid. Today, the line between coach/guardian is blurred completely. Worse, what we once thought to be the worst thing your college team could be guilty of is now something we would PRAY TO HAVE instead of a sexual abuse cover-up.
8. I think back fondly to the time when money was the biggest thing ruining college football...it was last week. If you look at a map of the United States, you could put your finger on dozens of spots where a college football program enjoys the kind of absolute power necessary to not only perpetrate this kind of crime, but also to cover it up. Seriously...this incident has raised THOSE kinds of questions. Think about it: if this headline had been provided to you without any names or faces, how many guesses would it have taken you to just guess Penn State? How long would it have taken you to just guess Joe Paterno? He was one of the guys you would never in a million years have associated with this kind of scandal.
9. I watch these guys on TV on Saturdays coaching big games with the country's best football talent on the field and I know...I just know that most of these men are capable of being decent human beings. Yet, we are reminded again and again that many of them simply don't look at the rest of us with the same basic respect that we give them. It should slap us in the face. It rarely does.
10. This last one is a difficult one to put out there, but I will and I ask that the Hogs Haven community be very careful with the way they treat it. As a Catholic, I have been disgusted with the way the Church has handled this very same kind of situation. I have shared in the shame and dishonor of those improprieties as a member of the Church. Is it possible that yet another sacred institution considered itself bigger than the "Right Thing To Do?" Is it possible that yet another group of self-righteous individuals put their own agendas, fears and wallets ahead of the needs of innocent children? We should all share in that shame at least a little bit in my opinion. We are not guilty of any crime, but until we recognize the role we play in the deification of crooked individuals and hold ourselves accountable AT LEAST for that, this problem will play out in another town, to the shock of another fanbase...and the victimization of another group of innocent children. None of us can afford that.
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Whole thing is utterly disgusting and very disheartening, who would of ever thought JoePa would go out like this?
He needs to go after this year and if he did so quietly then I’m sure his legacy would be preserved. I obviously don’t know him personally, but he just seems to stubborn to do so. But I’m sure the new AD, whomever it may be will push him out.
You have to ask how much this will hurt Penn State long term? It’s going to leave a huge stain on the program regardless of how much it actually has to do with football. I could see big time recruits and coaches staying away from Happy Valley for quite some time.
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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Is there anything the NCAA can do?
Impose sanctions harsh enough to prevent a big time recruit from going to State College, even if he wanted to? I’d like to see that happen, at the very least on a temporary basis.
Colleges have their scandals. Drug overdoses in dorms. Accepting gifts. Recruiting violations. But nothing is worse than this. While I suppose the drug overdose thing can tarnish a school, it pales in comparison. And to think, because they covered it up this shitbag was allowed to walk free for over nine years. I think that’s the worst part. No way this vile human being should have been free to perpetrate more crimes, which he did.
I made the mistake of reading the grand jury indictment. I lost a lot of sleep last night. Unspeakably horrible.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
There is something the NCAA can do
They will probably wait until the initial police investigation is over and if Sandusky is found guilty then the NCAA can claim Penn State has shown a “lack of institutional control” which is the worst NCAA violation there is and I would think calls for the Death Penalty since it involves the current coach and A.D.
You have to wonder why the guy was forced to retire when he did
He was in his coaching prime, one of the top coordinators in college football, and was the heir apparent to JoPa. Something stinks and I think it will get alot worse before it gets better for Penn St.
Cut Brandon "Stabby" Banks. That is all.
by 64ShagginWagon on Nov 7, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
It will get alot worse
Paying players and trying to cover it up (SMU) is one thing but commiting a felony multiple times and trying to cover it up is a completely different thing. If I were the NCAA I would think the Death Penalty and forcing JoPa to retire are the only sanctions that would apply to this situation. Jo Pa should be forced to retire because not only did he catch wind of what was going on and not report it to the police which I feel would be the morally corect thing to do, he allowed the same individual to come around the players after he was forced out. If you ask me that’s almost as bad as the original crime itself
The NCAA has nothing to do with this case what so ever
It is a huge black eye to the University, and to the legacy of Joe paterno, but it has no ramifications with the NCAA. There will be no sanctions, punishments, loss of scholarships, bowl bans etc. It is a criminal case.
John Denver was a musical genius
The NCAA can get involved since the Athletic Director failed to maintain institutional control by not reporting the incidents to the police
I have family that coach at small colleges in TX and SC. I have talked to them recently about this and they said it can have NCAA ramifications if they feel the A.D. is at fault for not complying with the law. Just because its not NCAA law that was broken doesn’t mean the NCAA can’t get involved if they feel its necessary to. I’m not saying they are going to get involved but if they feel they should they will
Not true
Sandusky was not a coach at the time the incident was reported, so the NCAA will have no justification to get involved. Now, had Sandusky been a coach at the time, the bomb would probably be dropped by the NCAA.
Not trying to be an ass here. Just telling you the legal aspects of this thing.
John Denver was a musical genius
It is true, there are reports of incidents from '98 and '96
and I’m sure more will come up. Many feel that the reported incident in ’98 is what forced Sandusky into retirement in ’99.
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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Your missing the point here
This is a Criminal case, the NCAA is not involved in this, nor will they get involved. I have a family member who is an attorney for the federal government, and I was given specifics as to how this would play out, and if there were any ramifications that the NCAA could seek against the university. The NCAA is not, or will not be involved in this.
John Denver was a musical genius
I'm not missing the point at all...
I never said and I don’t think the NCAA should get involved. But you are wrong in saying that Sandusky was not a coach when all of this started.
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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I never said he wasn't a coach when these rumors started
I was speaking specifically to the Grand Jury report, that started the entire investigation. Sorry if you misunderstood me.
I believe 100% that the incidents of, and maybe even before 1998 are what caused Sandusky to retire. Most people around the program believe this to be the case.
John Denver was a musical genius
I think if we've learned anything from the NCAA it's that they make up the rules as they go
Depending on what else comes out the NCAA might fell actions need to be taken. After their recent track record no one can say what they will do.
I’m not saying they should or that they will but none of us know for sure. Much like any other policing agency there are some very broad interpretations of their laws.
Cut Brandon "Stabby" Banks. That is all.
by 64ShagginWagon on Nov 8, 2011 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
I think the indictment stated a parent called into PSU to complain about him
sometime before the forced retirement.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
The NCAA will never give a death penalty ever again.
Too much money involved these days. And they get most of their funding from the schools they’re trying to police.
It’s a completely counterproductive system.
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Only repeat offenders of major NCAA violations
can get the death penalty anyways. PSU has never had a major violation.
John Denver was a musical genius
There hasn't been a death penalty in like 20 years anyway
at least.
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
It's actually be used for lesser sports twice in the 2000s
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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Yeah, sorry, I meant the money making sports
the ones that pay the NCAA’s bills
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
All points are very well said
I will add my thoughts.
I think Paterno has completely lost touch and should resign immediately.
I would rather have 1000 pay for play scandals then to have 1 single child be molested.
Being a father of 2 small children I pray every day for the safety of mine and everyone elses children. I would not wish this on any child. It scares me to see how morals and common decency have gone down the shitter.
Last but not least anyone that doesn’t believe in the death penalty for child molesters has never held their own child in their arms.
Cut Brandon "Stabby" Banks. That is all.
Don't worry
These fuckers get a worse fate than death in prison. People don’t look too kindly on child rapists/molesters. Even violent scumbags see something wrong with that.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
Completely agree
The thought process that commits this type of behaviour is frightening, after establishing guilt a quick exit is an excellent solution.
I am sickened beyond belief about this.
As a father to two wonderful little girls, this type of thing that keeps me up at night. If anyone violated my girls, I don’t know what I would do or how I would react to the person accused. It is such a horrible, disgusting thing that happened to these kids, if found true.
This is exponentially worse that what SMU, USC, Ohio State, and the Univiersity of Miami has ever done.
The Administration and JoePa should have done more, period! And if the GA was that distraught, why do you not ask what happened or why he was so upset? JoePa may have met the legal obligations, but morally and ethically, how can he look himself in the mirror.
Well said, Ken.
The real question is
How long will ESPN commentators keep polishing JoePa’s withered old knob? That will tell us what kind of a society we truly are.
College football has truly reached a new low.
And that is saying something.
JoePa should have been fired today, if not Saturday.
I hope that the PSU officials who committed perjury in the grand jury investigation go to prison.
I hope JoePa’s name is forever associated with harboring a child rapist for THIRTY YEARSl.
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Well Schultz and Curley have already stepped down
Paterno should be next. And if there is any good left in this fucked up world, that will happen sooner rather than later.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
Should've happened already. But yeah, I expect it this week.
Schultz and Curley should be headed to jail.
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I think Spanier deserves the boot too
For defending Schultz and Curley unconditionally. Just not okay.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
The article Lavar wrote for the Washington Post makes the whole thing more sickening in my eyes.
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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I hope Lavar writes again once the dude is convicted.
b/c that article was mostly (and rightfully) ‘I can’t judge him for what I don’t know’
so it makes it kind of running in circles until the truth comes out.
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Lavar refuses to read the grand jury report though...
To everyone who continues to ask me about the report yes i have it but i wont read it.its like seeing a family member in a casket. Please respect the fact that i know whats in the report id selfishly like to remember him the way i knew him thanks
I don’t know how I feel about the fact that he won’t read it and still is trying to write about a “positive” side of the guy. I think if you’re going to be a public figure and a “media member” then you can’t straddle both sides of the fence. I get what he’s saying, but at some point you need to realize the guy is a slumbag.
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A lot of people are afraid to
Especially Penn State grads. I think it’s because, deep down, they know every word of it is true.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
Absolutely agree...
Not the best example, but I was the same way with the whole Gilbert Arenas “gun-gate” in DC. I refused to believe it for a long time and tried to defend Gil. But down the road I realized the guy was an idiot and deserved the suspension he got.
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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Gilbert was an idiot and an immature one at that
But JoePa gets held to another standard. This is a sad day for PSU.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
It's certainly not even close to apples-to-apples, just trying to draw a comparison of a "beloved" figure messing up
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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Yep, a better comparison would be Len Bias
and the Lefty Driesell cover-up, neglect and subsequent firing that ruined the BBall program at MD for a long time.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
Well I was 4 months old at that point, haha
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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Even the UMD/Len Bias thing hardly compares to this
Just read the Grand Jury Report. Holy Crap!
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
There were no NCAA violations from that, just a university inquiry.
It was Bob Wade’s violations and lying to the NCAA that got the TERPS banned for 3 years..
HTTR!
True but Driesell started the ball rolling downhill for MD. there were other incidents too. I was there at the time.
My comparison is that he was a great coach like Paterno that swept things like (academics) under the rug like Paterno swept his buddy’s antics under the rug. The difference is in the magnitude of Paterno’s greatness and Paterno’s negligence if it’s proven that he was protecting Sandusky all those years.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
I just feel if Lavar feels the way he portrays in his comments, then he should keep the whole matter and his opinion...
somewhat private and not go and write what he did in WaPo.
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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Agreed
I don’t fault him for his line of thought.
While I don’t think Sandusky deserves to be breathing the air on this Earth, I do feel for the position Lavar is in. Imagine an uncle or something of yours doing the same thing. I truly don’t know how I would act under that circumstance.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
I liked what Lavar wrote
He didn’t go overboard and was respectful and he most likely had to come out with some kind of statement as he is involved in the media anyway.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
Lavar wrote, "see no evil, hear no evil, he was nice to me"
it was worthless.
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I have no problem with what Lavar wrote
I am not sure if you are saying you have a problem with what he said or not. I find it really really disturbing you could be around someone like that every day and literally have no clue what he is up to. Crazy
But I do agree Lavar could have maybe changed his wording a little
I know what he was trying to say but it came off a little wrong.
Yea the notion is creepy, as you were saying.
And it was very human of Lavar to write something like this. I guess it is the wording I take issue with, it’s really hard for my to convey why I take issue with his post. It’s almost like he’s trying to humanize and defend a figure that should pay, and sort of at the same time admitting what Sandusky did, but at the same time personally turning a blind eye.
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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I'm with Lavar
Sandusky is innocent until proven guilty. If it’s a slam dunk case, he will go to prison for a long time – probably the rest of his life. On Paterno, what did he know, what was he told, by who and when? What if he didn’t believe the accusations? What is he supposed to do? Maybe he didn’t think it was his duty to go to the police on a matter that might effect the school, especially since he was probably getting third hand knowledge – he knew it would all come out. To be clear – justice must be served – Joe should not have felt any loyalty to an assistant known to be a child molester. But he doesn’t have to believe everything he hears, either.
I'll answer your questions, which can be answered by a simple google search, mind you.
1) He knew that a GA saw a man sodomizing a young boy in the shower
2) Um… he was told as much BY THE GA
3) 2002
It doesn’t fucking matter if he believed the accusations. Why would a GA lie about something so serious? I really, really can’t believe you’re giving a very guilty child molester the benefit of the doubt.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
It's called our system of justice (a quick google search will answer that, mind you)..
US criminal law was founded on the principle of guilty until proven innocent.. Believe me, it certainly sounds like this terrible person is going to jail for the rest of his life, but to relinquish our principles bc of the emotion involved is not the right thing to do. I can list many “very guilty” ppl who have been exonerated over the years due to DNA and other circumstances which weren’t brought to light until after the defendant spent many years in jail. What allegedly happened here is beyond reprehensible; however, jailing/ executing innocent ppl is also beyond reprehensible. We have the criminal justice system for a reason, don’t abandon it due to the nature of the case.
You say goodbye, I say Helu
by Salem'sKeeper on Nov 8, 2011 7:35 AM EST up reply actions
*innocent until proven guilty. Ridiculous error considering my comments.
You say goodbye, I say Helu
by Salem'sKeeper on Nov 8, 2011 7:55 AM EST up reply actions
Fine.
But Lavar’s article is useless.
Wait to comment until after the trial.
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Most likely...
Lavar was being used by this scum bag to make these kids feel indebted to him. He could then use this “debt” to take advantage of the kids. I’ve been through Safe Environment training recently, and this is the kind of mind game these sickos use to get kids to go for these kinds of things and to keep the kid’s mouths shut. In my opinion, Lavar shouldn’t be torn over this, he should feel bitterly used.
by SonicFog on Nov 8, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Excellent article, Ken
I’m happy you sacrificed a redskins focused ten yard fight for this. It’s a disputable story and every point you made is well done. Joe Paterno needs to step down.
by mbedner on Nov 7, 2011 5:19 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Was thinking
And hoping the same thing
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
As a PSU alum
I am deeply saddened by the recent news of my university. I am ashamed, and feel disgraced. It is a very tough time for me right now, and I just hope people will not associate the nationwide Penn State community as a whole, with the terrible actions of a few morally disgusting individules.
I will pray for the victims and their families, and hope that Sandusky gets punished to the maxium extent the law allows.
As Alum, we hope to put this terrible situation behind us, and move forward in the good faith that our university represents.
For the first time, in a long time, I cried last night.
John Denver was a musical genius
I have actually reached out to a few buddies I know who went there and it seems your experience is not unlike theirs...
I know PSU alums to be among the greatest people I know…it has to suck right now.
For me, that is why they have to get Paterno out of there…I feel like as long as he is there, he makes PSU a target. He gives everyone a face for this whole thing to rally against. That is not good for the school.
by Ken Meringolo on Nov 7, 2011 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
Tiller,
What are your thoughts on what should happen to JoPa. Do you think he should stay? Should he step down immediately? Finish the season? Just wondering.
Cut Brandon "Stabby" Banks. That is all.
by 64ShagginWagon on Nov 7, 2011 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
It's tough for me to talk about, but here is my take
Most people wanted Joe gone, and many have assumed this would be his last year anyways, especially seeing as he broke the all-time D1 record for wins. No one ever expected he would go out this way though.
Personally, I want him out of there YESTERDAY. I think the university needs to act swiftly in this one, and purge itself of anyone tied to the staff, both past and present. There is one coach who I will stand up for, and that is coach Johnson. I know him, and he is a great man; one of honor and integrity, and I believe in my heart of hearts that he had no idea, or anything to do with this. Anyways, it’s time to move on, so go out, get yourself a new AD, and get rid of this incompetent staff.
My parents are very close to the university, and some people who sit on the BOT. I have heard that the Governor, who also has a seat on the BOT will be at the meeting scheduled for friday. Rumor has it that they may ask for the resignation of Paterno, and Spanier. There is also a chance that Paterno will be allowed to finish the season as coach, but will have to announce his retirement at seasons end. Many people I have spoken to feel this is the end for him and his entire staff, and although PSU fans never wanted to see him go out like this, it was what they untimately wanted; getting rid of him.
What I have heard, and please, this is just rumor, is that the GA(who is our current WR’s coach, and a former QB)Mike McQuerry, after he wittnessed what had happened, was afraid as to what he should do. Sandusky was a very powerful figure at PSU, and although he wasn’t coaching, MM was still scared. He went to Joe, and told him what he saw, but may have left out some of the details to the nature of the act(this is what is being talked about now). The theory goes, that in cooperation for his keeping things within the university, he was given a full-time job as a coach. Now, I have no idea if this is true, but it is one of the rumors floating around.
My grandmother was a 1935 grad of PSU, my dad, uncles, and cousins all went to PSU. It was in my blood since I was born. If my grandmother was alive today, I can’t imagine to tell you how sick she would feel to have her good name associated with a university that participated in such a cover-up. My father is disguisted, as am I, and we are finding it very hard to route for our team, with the current coaches/people in place. We want and deserve better for a great University such as Penn State, and I hope it comes to and end ASAP.
John Denver was a musical genius
I was surprised I didn't hear one person at school today talking about this.
I’m sure people are talking about it, but at my Penn State Campus I didn’t hear anything. It’s terrible news for the school and horrible for any kids that were hurt. Anyone involved should be held accountable, including Joe Paterno if he didn’t do everything he knows he should have done.
What seems extra creepy to me is that the GA who initially reported it is still coaching there.
According to the Grand Jury thing he walked into the shower and saw Sandusky sodomizing a 11yo boy. The Grand Jury report says he told Joe Pa he witnessed something of a sexual nature; Joe Pa denies knowing the nature. Giving Joe Pa the innocent until proven guilty treatment still leaves a current PSU coach who witnessed a brutal sexual assault, reported it in some fashion, and then continued to work there after nothing happened. I mean I don’t even know what that means. Is it an institutional “See no evil” epidemic? How do you continue working there watching him bring children onto campus?!?!?!
I feel bad for PSU alumni and students. I don’t think anyone holds it against them. I kinda wonder if the “Clean Program………Football is everything….Joe PA is a saint” mantra that has defined PSU for so long wasn’t a major contributor to this. “It can’t have happened this is Penn State” much like “They couldn’t have been molesting children they are priests!!” Might be something to be taken away about how we put certain things on a pedestal and they become so infallible perception wise. Or not.
I wonder if this will make people reconsider past Joe Pa incidents. Just off the top of my head I can remember some comments he made after an alleged rape that showed his moral compass is badly out of date if not completely broken when it comes to his own people.
That, and
I don’t know how two people saw this happening and didn’t stop it? It kinda makes me wonder I this was some sort of known behavior or something. I can’t imagine walking in on that and not simply beating the bejesus out of the jackass. Let alone actually walking away from the situation.
It also bothers me that this investigation had been going on for so long, yet the guy is walking amongst humans. I’m sure they were keeping tabs on him, but this was several years.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
If I was McQuerry
I would have went up and beat the ever-living-fuck out of Sandusky, and while he was laying there bleeding on the floor, I would have called the police, and has his ass hauled off to jail.
John Denver was a musical genius
Thats the biggest problem I see
Why didn’t he do something right then and there?
Counting cards isn't illegal. It's frowned upon, like masturbating on an airplane.
No one really knows
He may have done more than we know, he may not have. If it’s a case about children, it becomes sealed.
John Denver was a musical genius
The other problem: Did this conversation ever happen?
JoePa: Mike you need to go to the police
McQueary: I know but I’m afraid I’ll loose my job
JoePa: You have nothing to worry about. I will go with you. First I have to contact the school officals then you and I can go to the station.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
Seeing something like that is obviously extremely traumatizing
If I was in his shoes, I don’t think I’d find much room for logical thinking after seeing such a horrible thing. He went to his dad first, and his dad told him to tell Joe Paterno. I think out of the all the people involved in this mess, he’s the least guilty.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
With all due respect
You’re a chic. I’m not trying to go Neanderthal, bang my chest or anything, but all I’m saying is that if I walk up on a MAN raping a BOY, I stop it. Period. I don’t leave there until the atrocity has ended. Whether that leaves the other guy bleeding on the floor, so be it.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
This has nothing to do with being a girl
Taking the law into your hands is a very dangerous thing to do, generally speaking. That’s why the authorities NEEDED to be involved. Perhaps he’ll get the boot, too, and frankly I won’t shed any tears. As I said, he’s the least guilty, but that doesn’t mean anyone in this mess should come out unscathed.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
by DCO'sfan on Nov 8, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I understand what
You’re saying. To me, this basically comes down to the last Seinfeld episode. If you CAN do something to stop it, you do. If that’s “taking the law into your own hands”, so be it. I’m talking about stopping a violent, disgusting crime from happening, or at least keeping it from going any further. If you wait on the authorities, that means you’re waiting until its over.
Also, I apologize for appearing to make it a male/female thing. That wasn’t my intention.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
I can somewhat wrap my head around not doing anything in the moment as that is certainly the kind of thing that would fry a brain
But continuing to coach there for many more years while seeing Sandusky on campus with kids is mindboggling. He shouldn’t be absolved of any guilt. Everyday he has gone to work since then is one step closer to hell. Clearly Paterno thought he was credible as he has kept him on staff and since promoted him. Not sure how anyone can say he is “less guilty.” He saw it with his own 2 eyes, covered his own ass, participated in a coverup and benefited from his inaction.
by BayAreaBullet on Nov 8, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
Okay fair enough.
But to me, his reaction in the moment was understandable and I don’t fault him for just running. Honestly, I would probably have the same response. It’s an image so horrible and heart-rending that I can’t imagine myself reacting “properly”. His actions after the incident are, perhaps, suspect. I’ll admit that much.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
Apology accepted
And I get it. But stopping it is one thing. If the GA beat Sandusky to a bloody pulp in addition to stopping it, then the GA did something wrong too. If you just stop it, fine. We weren’t there, obviously. Maybe he didn’t do enough to stop it right then, but beating the shit out of Sandusky is a prescription for trouble on the GA’s end.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
Yeah
You’re right. I have kids. 3 girls. I hope you understand where my rage comes from.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
I do
But keep in mind, was the GA a parent at the time? I don’t think so, although I could be wrong. Perhaps his reaction would have been different if he was a parent.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
Yep
You’re absolutely right.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
I think McQuerry doing nothing to stop the raping
Had nothing to do with his age and everything to do with “WHO” was doing the raping. That makes him a jellyfish in my book.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
Sandusky was a very powerful figure
even after he retired was forced to retire. McQuerry was probably scared shitless. IMO MM is a big pu$$@, and will have to live with this on his shoulders for the rest of his life.
John Denver was a musical genius
A lot of people in the PSU community
respected MM as a coach. He was always Joe’s little bitch; ie. Paterno’s Bobo Doll when things went bad, but he seemed to work hard as both a coach and a recruiter.
The public perception of him has now been flushed down the toilet, and I doubt he’ll ever have a job in college football again.
John Denver was a musical genius
McQeary the more I think about it is the most spineless of them all.
Big strong dude and he comes upon a child being raped by an old man and does nothing? Nothing! WTF? Not only is his career done but he’ll have trouble getting a job selling used cars too.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
PSU Grad Here
Very ashamed to be associated with the University at this point in time.
Graduated in 1997. I can’t put into words how much respect I have lost for the athletic program at PSU, which I felt was always held to a higher standard. The school/athletic department/and football program deserve whatever is coming their way.
Upon hearing the news that Joe was told by the eye witness, Paterno had an obligation to not only notify the local authorities of the crime, but also to beat the living crap out of Sandusky (although who knows maybe he did have somebody beat the living shit outta sandusky), however, I feel he probably failed on both accounts. Notifying the university is not enough with a crime of this magnitude. Joe Paterno, has let all PSU alumni down and it is time for him to go.
I agree with all statements here and will not defend any of the accused. They must now all pay for the suffering that was caused on school grounds and then covered up.
Glimmer of hope
The only thing that makes me feel slightly better is the belief that Paterno will step aside after this year and I’m not sure why. Sandusky will pay the price. To see him still wrapping himself in Penn St swag is bizarre. The admins will lose their jobs, but it’s just a slap on the wrist for what they deserve. The school will continue to operate much like it has throughout its history.
But the program that allowed this to happen, the people that turned the other way for whatever reason, arrogance, ignorance, fear or self-preservation need to go, from top to bottom. Penn St should never be the same for allowing, encouraging, associating and permitting a true monster to operate as if it came with the territory of being “successful.” Penn St should never be successful on the field ever again.
I'm sure there will be some major lawsuits that come from this
Penn St. is going to lose a ton of money
Cut Brandon "Stabby" Banks. That is all.
by 64ShagginWagon on Nov 7, 2011 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
What a DumbAss statement!
Penn St should never be successful on the field ever again.
Why say that? PSU is a great school! They have a worldwide reputation for excellence in many fields. They deserve to win again as much as any other school.
Most likely, they’ll clean house of anyone involved and will be better off for it. I used to hate PSU when I was in college because they almost always beat the tar out of MD in football. I know many who have gone there and I’ve been on their campus and have had professional dealings with the University and they are a 1st class organization.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
Yeah, I agree
I think everyone who knew anything, ANYTHING, about this, needs to be gone. But the University, which is about the kids, should not suffer long term for the awful judgement displayed by the people “in charge” at that particular time.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
Exactly
And Penn State is a lot more than an educational institute, it’s a research institute and the 6th largest employer in Pennsylvania. To punish PSU is to punish not only the students and teachers but a whole of jobs of direct and indirect people who derive their livelihoods from PSU.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
psu is done for good
it just goes to show you you cant trust no one a priest a cop a lawyer a school teacher and now a football coach im sorry to say it but joe pa is done there is no loyalty to anyone when a crime is being committed im from scranton pa and it all over the scranton times news paper man the horrible accusations that are in there by sandusky is to vile to reapeat its pretty graphic i guess ohio state is not as bad as people thinks there program was no one i mean no one is going to look at psu the same ever again never mind recruting players this team is not going play with any focus after having a pretty good year
lohaus #54
another dumbass comment
PSU isn’t and shouldn’t be done, the people involved however….that’s another story.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
by GeoFly on Nov 8, 2011 9:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I called your comment dumbass
dumbass!
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
your just bitter because your teams football coach and head honcho,s protected a pervert raping young boys in the shower to protect there school from losing money in my book they are all guilty. you fart face
lohaus #54
fart-face? what are you 12 years old?
a. PSU is not my school, it’s UMD. and when I went to UMD I really hated PSU because they beat us every time.
b. learn how to spell.
c. I believe they are all guilty too………..doodoo-head.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
sorry about the 12 year old remark
it should have been 8 years old.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
Guys
You have to understand that the students athletes who are on this team currently have nothing to due with this. There are some very good coaches at the university who also had nothing to do with this. To wish I’ll will in the entire athletic program is taking it a step too far. It is an institute of higher education, and to wish I’ll will, or to punish the current student athletes is not fair to the young men and women who had nothing to do with this.
The people involved, and the current staff, whether they were there or not, needs to be replaced. Once a new staff is in place, things will move on.
It’s very easy to point fingers at the University as a whole, but please realize that there are hundreds of thousands of good people associated with the university as student athelets, students, professors, administrators, alumni, and fans who had nothing to do with this. Please take this into consideration before wishing I’ll will on the entire University, and its future.
Removing the guilty people, and punishing them to the maxium extent of the law, is what’s needed. Anyone new to the staff, and admin will come in with a clean slate.
John Denver was a musical genius
I mean what wrong did JoePa do???
He didn’t do the crime and he reported it. What else do you want a man to do. Plus its not fair to look at college coaches as a whole when you look at this incident. This is a Penn State thing between a couple men. That is like saying all Catholic priests are perverts and horrible things go through my mind when I see one talking to a young boy. I’m sure people will never let their kids go to Penn State to play football now, but my question is do parents allow their kids around Catholic priests. I mean they already worship Mary so they should let females be priests.
He violated a moral code of being a human being.
He reported it in 1998 but still let the guy run a childrens charity, youth football camps, and let the guy be close to the program. As recently as 2007 Sandusky was bringing children to practice, just imagine how disgusting that is? What does JoePa go over to Sandusky, shake his hand, then say “hey little guy glad you could stop by practice today”? I don’t know how the man slept at night.
The example you just posed is terrible and not even close to be comparable.
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
So often...
Do people try to take the path of ’it’s not my job to report any suspicion or accusations’ in situations like this. Doing the minimal is not doing any of those children a favor.
Your right
and it makes me sick thinking about it. I’ve heard rumors that Paterno and Sandusky were not on speaking terms after 1998, and that Paterno was against him being allowed in the Lasch building alltogether after 1999, but I’m really not sure what to believe these days.
Sandusky supposedly brought a kid to the Alamo bowl in 1999, and something went on there as well. I heard Paterno didn’t even want Sandusky at that game, and was furious that he brought one of the 2nd Mile kids.
Again, I don’t even know what to believe at this point. All I know is I want Paterno gone.
John Denver was a musical genius
More comparable than Gilbert Arenas...
JoePa ran the Penn State football team not this guys charity and football camps. Plus look at the quote…
I was informed in 2002 by an assistant coach that he had witnessed an incident in the shower of our locker room facility. It was obvious that the witness was distraught over what he saw, but he at no time related to me the very specific actions contained in the Grand Jury report.
Paterno obviously didn’t know the complete details of what happen. He still went ahead and told the administrators. Now the way i look at it is this guy was still able to be around Penn State so if i’m Paterno in my head i’m thinking “well the administrators let him stick around so what he did wasn’t that serious” Its like reporting a co-worker stealing at your job to the supervisor, but he still work there a month later so you are going to think it wasn’t that big of a deal. Paterno did not do enough??? You can’t go running to police if you didn’t see it with your own eyes. He did the next best thing and i’m not going to bash the guy.
I don't believe Paterno had no idea
He knew of other incidents involving Sandusky prior to this, so to play niave on this one was wrong on Joe’s part. Joe hated Sandusky at the time(or so I’m told). He refused to attend his retirement dinner, citing “other obligations”. There is some talk that Joe told Curley about this guy before, and Curley wanted to keep the matter “within the university”, so he handled it his way, ie., the forced retirement. Joe may have went to Curley after the 2002 incident, and said, “here, I told you so a few years ago, it’s your mess, now deal with it.” Curley obviously didn’t deal with it correctly, nor do I think Joe did.
John Denver was a musical genius
by Tiller56 on Nov 8, 2011 9:35 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So now you are making up quotes...
And where does it say Joe knew about previous incidents???
Ok I'm making up quotes
Joe may have went to Curley after the 2002 incident, and said
I put that into quotations as something Joe may have said. Please read first.
There were issues involving Sandusky, and some accusations in the mid to late 90’s. You think Joe, who basically IS football at PSU, didn’t know?
John Denver was a musical genius
"I put that into quotations as something Joe may have said."
i.e making up quotes
MAY HAVE
READ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I put it into quotes, so you would take it as MY opinion.
John Denver was a musical genius
You're getting lost
In the semantics. The bottom line is, forget about the administrators, Paterno should’ve gone to the police. This isn’t something you leave up to someone to make a decision on.
Of course, I also think the GA was in the wrong for not calling the cops as well.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
by CJHutch on Nov 8, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
From the PA Police Commsioner Frank Noonan himself...
…“but somebody has to question about what I would consider the moral requirements for a human being that knows of sexual things that are taking place with a child,”
“Whether you’re a football coach or a university president or the guy sweeping the building,” Frank Noonan said, “I think you have a moral responsibility to call us.”
Speaking about Joe and PSU officials. If the cops want you to call, then you should probably have called.
how could he not know?
Surely McQuerry mentioned it was a boy and not a man.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
by GeoFly on Nov 8, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Um, the dude was banned from bringing kids on campus.
Anyway, JoePa testified that he knew it involved children.
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I was comparing fans emotions not the incidents...
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
Id like to apologize for my comment yesterday, I had no idea the degree as to what was going on at Penn State, from what i heard first is totally different than what I am hearing now. Sorry.
Counting cards isn't illegal. It's frowned upon, like masturbating on an airplane.
That was pretty harsh.
It’s very big of you to man up. Thanks.
HTTR!
by mkjo on Nov 8, 2011 9:59 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, i feel awful now
Counting cards isn't illegal. It's frowned upon, like masturbating on an airplane.
Don't feel awful dude, like mkjo said at least you manned up to it.
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
The push for bowl money and NFL propecting...
will continue to create an atmosphere where sharks outside of the athletics programs will try to shower players with money and gifts. And players will continue to accept these questionable “rewards” because money is money when you’re in college. A college bowl win means money and more admissions to your university. Until that changes there will never be an uncorrupted college athletic system.
Covering up, or trying to, a scandal of the likes at Penn State, just proves this even further. When its win, win, win then you’re going to add pressure that leads to situations like this. I personally don’t watch college football, because of this sick feeling i get where I feel like watching it just gives credit to the athletic departments to allow things like this to happen.
Just my opinion though.
I put this on the GA first and foremost. I mean this person had to be between 21-24 years old; if you see something like that, sure you may hesitate, but you go and get help to stop it and you at a minimum call campus security and more likely the police and report it. What happened here is an example of exactly why you need an unbias party brought in.
And I am not justifying how it was handled, BUT to expect a college program this big to be 100% committed to brinigng this whole thing to light because it didn’t matter who reported it or how it was reported; the university as a whole was gonig to suffer. So human nature and self preservation kicks in….once again it’s wrong, but it’s not that hard to perceive.
I also have a hard time with something coming to light so long after it happened. I mean what was this GA doing during this time? Why is it so important to bring it up now? If he was so moral he would have went straight to the police years ago.
And as much as it breaks my heart to think that JoPa’s image should be tarnished for something so dispicable I can’t come up with any defense for him not going straight to the authorities. It really came down to him choosing his school and career over the well being of that boy and I can’t forgive that.
by It's Always Sunny in DC on Nov 8, 2011 7:01 PM EST reply actions
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