Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Ryder Hesjedal Wins Giro d'Italia

3 Predictions for 2012 and 1 Reassurance





Prediction #1: RGIII will be the second QB drafted in the 2011 draft.

Reason: Character, Good influence, Track star, Stats show an amazing player Robert Griffin III in 2011: 72% competition, 3678 yards, 34 touchdowns, 5 INTs Robert Griffin III in 2010: 67% competition, 3501 yards, 22 touchdowns, 8 INTs Landry Jones third, then barkely

Prediction #2: The Redskins WILL NOT draft a QB in this year's draft within the first two rounds (Probably 3rd, 4th round).

Reason: Shanny sees too many wholes to fix. Why put a QB in this situation, when Grossy and Becky can do better when they have something to work with. Prediction #2 a) Probably Mike Adams drafted, BUT we will trade down again. Cue drama

Prediction: #3: Riley will be starting next year at LB alongside with London-Fletcher, Rocky McIntosh is released

Reason: Look how Perry is doing! Amazing. Just needed 1, 2 years of sitting to get in on the action. London will teach him well as Riley is the replacement.

Reassurance #1: LONDON-FLETCHER IS COMING BACK NEXT YEAR!!!

Reason: He loves this team, great influence, team leader, and not everything is fixed. Redskins might/could fall apart a bit if he retires.

Star-divide

This is just my thoughts, I would love to draft RGIII but I honestly think he will go second or third on the QB pecking order. We don't know who much the draft changes until it is tiem for it. Just look at Cam Newton! Projected to us at the end of the season.

Landry Jones I wouldn't want because he doesn't look good in pressure and is a shotgun QB mostly, but will probably be good.

Matt Barkely would be my third choice for QB. Accurate, and pro-style. Better under pressure than Landry Jones.

Thoughts?

Comment 330 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Nice way to kick off this Wednesday....very positive

1) I think RGIII in the top 5 is def a possibility. He’s been creeping up the boards all season long, and the offseason is the time for his stock to soar once he performs at the combine. With that being said, I think he will be the 1st or 2nd QB taken in the 2013 draft.

2) I seriously doubt the Redskins would pass on Barkley if he were the 4th QB to go. If we get 1 or 2 more wins, we’ll be picking in the mid teens, which means Barkley could very possibly be there…it’s much cheaper to trade up in the second round to get an Olineman than it is to trade up in the first to get a QB.

3) Riley is playing at a “starter” level for sure, i hope he keeps it up and can develop into a player like Fletch. I agree he’ll be starting next year.

4) I really hope London comes back next year. Just like every year for the past few seasons, we’re losing games in the 4th quarter and by narrow margins. If we can address our offense in this draft and free agency period and start to score some points, a cornerstone/leader like London is needed to keep the defense on track. I’d really like to see him be a part of a playoff run with us.

by ptowny on Nov 30, 2011 7:13 AM EST reply actions  

How can we NOT address QB?

Another year of Grossman would mean ticket sales lost, and no Jersey sales.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 7:29 AM EST reply actions  

The only way we don't address a QB in rounds 1 or 2...

is if we trade for a quality starter. Even if sign a free agent QB, there HAS to be someone being developed to be the game day starter in 2013. I don’t see us passing in the first 2 rounds.

by ptowny on Nov 30, 2011 7:33 AM EST up reply actions  

agreed...

we’re paying dearly for that…those draft picks we gave up could have easily landed us a couple starters

by ptowny on Nov 30, 2011 8:29 AM EST up reply actions  

+1

I have my ship
And all her flags are a flyin'
She is all that I have left
And music is her name

by Redskin44 on Nov 30, 2011 8:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Agree

I don’t believe Beck will be with the team after this year, Rexy will be the starting QB until the Rookie takes over and then Rexy will be backup.

by dr WNC on Nov 30, 2011 9:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Haha

God i hope Allen and Shanahan are not making decisions based on ticket sales and jersey sales.

When Gaffney drops the ball I blame Kyle. When Jammal Brown doesn't block I blame Kyle. When Barnes dives out a guys ankles and misses I blame Kyle.

by Jeff Bernard on Nov 30, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with #1 and #3

I could easily see Gill’s stock sky rocket after the combine. I can’t imagine Shanny would pass Barkley or Jones if they are on the board when we draft, and Riley seems to be doing all the right things- a really nice mid season surprise- I had written the guy off

I hope your right about Fletcher. I think this guy is a competitor and with only a couple of years left in his career, wants to win one more SB. As much as he likes it here, the temptation to be a part of one final run may be too much.

I have my ship
And all her flags are a flyin'
She is all that I have left
And music is her name

by Redskin44 on Nov 30, 2011 7:47 AM EST reply actions  

Rocky McIntosh should be Traded, not Released

I hope the front office can avoid the mistake of the outright release of Rocky. He’s a average to solid LB, still young, no baggage. Players like that should not be released. They are assets that should be traded.

by StephanHart on Nov 30, 2011 9:00 AM EST reply actions  

Good Call

I guess he’ll get a better offer than the Skins will want to give him. But if he comes cheap, maybe we re-sign him for depth and find a way to trade him for a pick next year

by StephanHart on Nov 30, 2011 10:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Prediction #2: QB

The only way the Redskins do not draft a 1st or 2nd round QB is if they sign a FA QB like Matt Flynn.

Beck will not be here next year: the coaching staff has even been convinced of his limitations.

Rex has proven to be a solid back-up, that’s it.

Neither of these QBs give the Redskins any hope for the future, so some sort of QB move will need to be made, with either a top round selection, or a top FA signing.

by StephanHart on Nov 30, 2011 9:03 AM EST reply actions  

agree

the Redskins could def. pass on a QB, but only if they land someone like Matt Flynn.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Nov 30, 2011 9:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Why and what has Flynn done

to make people believe he could be the answer for our 2 decade long QB drought?

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Rex > Flynn

Given his experience in the system

by tman5 on Nov 30, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

No, totally disagree

Flynn is better than Rex………………whether he knows the system of not. Hell, anyone is better than Rex(except maybe Beck), but why are people willing to settle on Flynn as our new QB of the future? What has he done that make people want him so bad?

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

He has done about the same thing that Luck and Jones and RG3 and Barkley. have done. Nothing. Yet somehow or another you still are jonesing for us to take one of them.

When Gaffney drops the ball I blame Kyle. When Jammal Brown doesn't block I blame Kyle. When Barnes dives out a guys ankles and misses I blame Kyle.

by Jeff Bernard on Nov 30, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Think about what you just said

then go back and compare their college skillset.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Like Ryan Leaf’s “college skillset”. Do you know what you can buy in the NFL with “college skillset” and 44 cents?

When Gaffney drops the ball I blame Kyle. When Jammal Brown doesn't block I blame Kyle. When Barnes dives out a guys ankles and misses I blame Kyle.

by Jeff Bernard on Nov 30, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

spoiler alert

The answer is a postage stamp

When Gaffney drops the ball I blame Kyle. When Jammal Brown doesn't block I blame Kyle. When Barnes dives out a guys ankles and misses I blame Kyle.

by Jeff Bernard on Nov 30, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

You can't just say everyone has done nothing...

and that makes them all the same. You can’t know for sure, duh, but you CAN make educated guesses.

"Dominant" is an adjective.
"Dominate" is a verb.
We'll work on "Dominance" once we get the first two figured out.

by Reedskin on Dec 4, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn't get into scouting prospects

in 1998. I was more interested in hooking up with chicks, and playing the game, not scouting it. So, I really couldn’t tell you much about Leaf’s mental makeup, skills, and intangibles.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 6, 2011 8:35 AM EST up reply actions  

For the purpose of being a 1 season stopgap untli a rookie is ready to start

I would take Rex.

There’s not much point in having a new FA learn the offense for just a single year. Would you rather the rookie learn from someone who clearly is comfortable and has understanding of the offense, or from some FA who also just got here?

by tman5 on Nov 30, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

So your willing to suffer

through another year of this?

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Technically Grossman is a .500 QB

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Nov 30, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Like I said

so your willing to suffer through another year of this?

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

If we get a rookie QB next year then 8-8 is probably pretty realistic

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Nov 30, 2011 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree, I'm just saying I'm not upset with 8-8 next year

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Nov 30, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I would be upset if that 8-8 came from Rex

I wouldn’t be upset if it came from a rookie

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

What if 3-4 of came from Rex and 5-3 of it from a rookie?

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Nov 30, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

What if 5-4 of it came from Red and 3-4 of it from a rookie

Now would that be something you’d be interested in?

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Nov 30, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

JT O'Sullivan

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Nov 30, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Chris Redman, can't you read?

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Nov 30, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

What movie is that from?

“Now would that be something you’d be interested in?”

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Dec 1, 2011 8:59 AM EST up reply actions  

It's from Entourage

there was one main episode with it, and then it was recurring the last couple of years.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 1, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

haha now I remember

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Dec 1, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions  

i am.

without a franchise qb out of these lost seasons. and the year bad season before this season.when is he ever gonna get a franchise qb? i just think shanahan is a bad coach.. and the last 2 years in denver and the first 2 years has pretty much proved it. bronos didnt win because of shanahan john elway was the coach by that timeand when he left the denver teams quit on mike. i just hope he dont trade away more of our future to move up in the draft this year…

by munson21502 on Dec 2, 2011 10:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Your 100% correct

and think about this phrase you just wrote, when you say every rookie QB should sit.

Live by the words you preach!

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Who is Park?

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Dec 1, 2011 9:00 AM EST up reply actions  

how is that a flip flop??

evidence shows that QB’s who sit and develop tend to do better (and no not all, but many).

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 1, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions  

I predict two out of these three predictions will be wrong.

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Nov 30, 2011 9:40 AM EST reply actions  

haha +1

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Nov 30, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions  

hahaha

"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Nov 30, 2011 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

I predict three of the predicitons will be at least partially wrong.

One is already partially wrong…. Rocky Mac can’t “be released” since he’s a FA; he’s either resigned or signs somewhere else, and no way that if he resigns they would let him walk, because he’s still a good enough LB to be the number 1 ILB off the bench.

No Danny, Nooooooo - Tom Landry, 1982., and Washington Redskins fans, 1999-

by BillWard on Dec 1, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

agree with everything except QB

Beck is terrible, and Grossman is barely good enough to let the other players do their thing.

We simply have to get better at QB.

"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Nov 30, 2011 9:55 AM EST reply actions  

Haven't you guys heard?

Peyton Manning is coming to Washngton, he will throw for 50 touchdowns and Rex will massage his neck after every drive. Problem solved.

by David Houck on Nov 30, 2011 9:59 AM EST reply actions  

I have a strong urge to kick you off the site, haha

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Nov 30, 2011 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Haha

I do not actually believe this, he would only throw like 30-35.

by David Houck on Nov 30, 2011 10:17 AM EST up reply actions  

wouldn't bother me if we picked manning up as a free agent to groom our 1st round draft pick.

Counting cards isn't illegal. It's frowned upon, like masturbating on an airplane.

by jbh1190 on Nov 30, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Why would Manning come here?

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Nov 30, 2011 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

to play his brother 2 times a year

i think the redskins would be the only team he would play for if the colts got rid of him. i would love to have manning as qb, god knows we need a new play caller so we could kill 2 birds with 1 stone if we got him

by munson21502 on Dec 2, 2011 10:26 PM EST up reply actions  

All I could think of was a line out of the Starsky and Hutch movie

Where Ben Stiller is disguised as a NY based, 1970s Italian Pimp.

“Doo wit. Doo wit”

No Danny, Nooooooo - Tom Landry, 1982., and Washington Redskins fans, 1999-

by BillWard on Dec 1, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Only prediction 3 will be right imo

We’re not even sure RGIII comes out but if he does I still see him behind Barkley and jones. Also I don’t see any way shanny passes on a qb unless we trade for a young guy with potential to boost ticket sales. Everyone will be calling for his shannys head again including Snyder

Duck Fallas!!

by believe_the_curse on Nov 30, 2011 10:01 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

So do you think that the qb next year will be a free agent, a trade, or a lower round pick?

It’s a bold prediction that the redskins won’t take a QB in round 1 or 2. I’m interested in what you think they will do instead.

by sofutomygaha on Nov 30, 2011 11:19 AM EST reply actions  

Prob play Rex

because you know the mentality of some around here: If we improve our line, Rex can win us some games.

We can get 2 new O-Linemen in FA, and 2 new linemen with our first and 2nd round picks in 2012, and now Rex will be behind a fortress, and will never be touched, so eventhough he sucks, he can still win us 10 games behind THAT GOOD of an offensive line.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

If Gano makes 1 of the 2 kicks he missed in two separate games we are 1 game out of first place in the division. Rex is not the solution but he damn sure is not the biggest problem.

When Gaffney drops the ball I blame Kyle. When Jammal Brown doesn't block I blame Kyle. When Barnes dives out a guys ankles and misses I blame Kyle.

by Jeff Bernard on Nov 30, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I dunno, Rex is a pretty big problem

We always fall back in love, so to say, with Rex after he has a good game, and we forget how horrendous he can be.

Look, im in agreement that there are many holes on this team, that Rex isnt the only problem. But don’t forget or fail to see that the game Rex had Sunday against Seattle: That’s the best you can ever hope from him. That’s Rex on his best day.

He doesn’t show any flashes of being elite, even on his best days. In fact, I would argue that, because he can be so terrible, his good performances stand out so much, and people think he can be better than he is. He’s a below-average, mistake-prone, slow, short, small-handed QB.

I do not want to go into another season with Rex as the starting QB of this team.

by StephanHart on Nov 30, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

amen!

and Rec’d

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Let me paraphrase you

Oh my god. Who keeps rec’ing these comments. Its soooo childish! Grow up.

When Gaffney drops the ball I blame Kyle. When Jammal Brown doesn't block I blame Kyle. When Barnes dives out a guys ankles and misses I blame Kyle.

by Jeff Bernard on Nov 30, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Who is the biggest problem then

the blockers on the field goal team?

Dude, get over it. It’s Rex! He’s a very poor QB.

You can say if it wasn’t for 3 int’s in the redzone, we would have 3 more victories now, and also be in the hunt.

I hope to hell this post is not advocating Rex for another year as our starter…………………….god, I just threw up in my mouth just thinkin that.

Just a question for you. Name me 3 starting QB(who are not rookies) that Rex is better than in the league.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Is Tavaris really worse though?

I really can’t think of anyone I’d take Rex over. Actually, I’d probablly take 1/2 the backup QB in the league over Rex……………………..and that’s in all seriousness.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

The ONLY guy that comes to mind is Curtis Painter

but he’s really not the Starter – just by default. I’d say the other consideration would be Tebow, as I just view him to be a bad QB(hell of an athlete though, and a winner)

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Now I dislike Rex....but...

You would really take half of the backups in the league over Rex?

by StephanHart on Nov 30, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Lets take a look

Young – Yes
Carr – yes
Kitna – yes
whitehurst – yes
Skelton – yes
Johnson – yes
Redman – yes
Flynn – yes
Stanton – yes
Leinhardt – yes
Hoyer – yes
Orton -yes
Campbell – yes

and of the rookie backups:
Locker – hell yeah
Kap – hell yeah
Taylor – yes

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Okay from now on i will ignore all of your comments. You would take Kitna, Leinhardt and Campbell over Rex? You are insane. It was nice debating you up until now but now i can see you are either just being provocative or your football opinion should be totally disregarded.

When Gaffney drops the ball I blame Kyle. When Jammal Brown doesn't block I blame Kyle. When Barnes dives out a guys ankles and misses I blame Kyle.

by Jeff Bernard on Nov 30, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions  

hell

I might consider adding kerry collins, derek anderson, chase daniels, ryan mallet, and dennis dixon to your list.

by sofutomygaha on Dec 1, 2011 7:53 AM EST up reply actions  

probably bulger, too

I’m going to go put some vodka on my corn flakes.

by sofutomygaha on Dec 1, 2011 7:56 AM EST up reply actions  

been saying that since pre season

i said wow we are going for a number 1 draft pick when our only 2 options at qb wouldnt even be 2nd string qbs on 95% of the teams in the nfl. our schedule was so easy this year plus dallas philly and the gaints were so hurt when we first played them if we had even a half good qb we woulda went 6-0 really easy. and yet here we are with just 4 wins so far. with 3 of them come from behind against teams that will pick ahead of us in the draft. we had a good pre season and a good first game. the giants game was our superbowl it looks like

by munson21502 on Dec 2, 2011 10:44 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

Sorry but what you posted is insane…to say you would take Leinart, Skelton, Whitehurst over Grossman….

And I read when you posted earlier you would like to sit down with people and go over QB game film because you’re such a QB guru.

Get real. Those QB’s you listed are horrible and have all shown themselves to be completely inadequate NFL QB’s.

I’m all for moving on without Rex, but with something better in place, not something worse

by StephanHart on Nov 30, 2011 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Skelton - 100% yes

Leinart – yes, more upside
Whitehurst – I haven’t seen too much from him, but I doubt he’s a bad as Rex

You have to understand, it’s not about these other QB being great, it’s more about Rex being totally maxed-out. I’ll take the little upside I see in the other QB’s, vs Rex’s downside.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 1, 2011 8:31 AM EST up reply actions  

I think its a different scenerio. This is more of a “who is better” discussion. The Flynn discussion is more around taking Flynn versus drafting Jones/Barkley.

I have my ship
And all her flags are a flyin'
She is all that I have left
And music is her name

by Redskin44 on Dec 1, 2011 9:00 AM EST up reply actions  

No its the same

Tiller’s argument here is he just has a feeling that these QBs are better than Rex because he feels that they have higher upside, and refuses to accept the logic that statistics provide.

And yet, Tiller dismisses Matt Flynn as a viable alternative to drafting Landry Jones/Matt Barkley because Flynn only had 1 year as a starting QB and hasnt shown enough in the NFL and he feels that Jones and Barkley have higher upside

by StephanHart on Dec 1, 2011 9:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Flynn didn't show enough in college either

go back and do some research before you go spouting off at the mouth, Mr Armchair QB

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 1, 2011 9:28 AM EST up reply actions  

No, the point is very simple

you can’t compare apples to oranges

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 1, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Sure you can.

Raw, I’m more of an orange guy. I prefer the tanginess to the mild sweetness of an apple.

In pie, however, apples are superior.

Oranges are better for playing friendly catch with, but apples are a better projectile weapon.

"Dominant" is an adjective.
"Dominate" is a verb.
We'll work on "Dominance" once we get the first two figured out.

by Reedskin on Dec 4, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

you know who had great college numbers?

Rex Grossman and John Beck. I’m not saying you ignore college numbers, but honestly what Flynn did in college is pretty meaningless at this point.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 1, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

But he did nothing in the NFL either

so there is nothing to compare him on. That’s why I was agruing with Stephan that you can’t compare stats of a vet to someone who’s started just one NFL game

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 1, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions  

just as you can't cite a players college numbers as a sole reason why someone is a going to be a great QB

my point is you can’t keep knocking Flynn on the fact that his college career was forgettable.

I’m not saying his limited regular season experience gives him credibility either, but that game and a half last year is worth far more than his year starting in college four years ago.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 1, 2011 8:50 PM EST up reply actions  

But what else is there to project a college QB to the NFL on?

Thats why there are so amny analysts out there who do nothing but scout and watch film of these guys all day.

You have to go on ability, intangibles etc.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 2, 2011 7:27 AM EST up reply actions  

there is a difference between ability and stats

Stats are a tool and it can be valuable if you look at them in context, and you weight them appropriately (for instance stats like Comp%, YPA, TD%, INT % are more important for me than yards, TD’s and INT’s)

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 2, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions  

So given this importance

I can’t see why you dislike Landry Jones.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 2, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

huh?

why b/c 3 of those 4 categories are down?

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 2, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

What is the formula Kev always posts for college QB's

help me out:

Completion % must be over 60% – Jones = Pass
There is one for YPA I think. Jones = Pass
I think there is one for TD/INT ratio Jones = pass

I know I’m forgetting some

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 3, 2011 9:27 AM EST up reply actions  

I think the one you are referring to

is the 26-27-60% rule,

26 or higher on the Wonderlic, 27 career games started, and 60% completion rating.

There is an advanced system out there that uses things like YPA (actually I think they use yards per completion) TD% INT% etc., but there aren’t set bench marks so you’d need to reverse engineer the system to figure out where Jones falls. It is an intriguing system since if did predict Gabbert as a likely bust and Dalton as one of the top QB’s. If I get a chance I’ll try to see if I can do the math for some of these guys (unfortunately the Wonderlic part will be a guess).

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 3, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I'd like to see that

either way, he passes 2 of Kev’s 3 catagories, and considering he’s a smart kid, I don’t see him having problems with the Wonderlic.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 3, 2011 6:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd agrue and say they are about the same

If you want to see down numbers, look at your boy Tannehill.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 3, 2011 9:28 AM EST up reply actions  

not really

and it is hard to be down when this is your first full year as a starter.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 3, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Ok, your right

then care to answer why his numbers are down? Wouldn’t you think you’d see improvement? I sure would expect it.

Comp % 2010 – 65%
Comp% 2011 – 61%

YPA 2010 – 7.0
YPA 2011 – 6.96

QB rating 2010 – 137
QB Rating 2011 – 132.6

He’s also more that doubled his INT’s.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 3, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

well his YPA is essentially the same

but as for the Comp% and INT % (he more than doubled his attempts, INT’s are slightly up 2.5% to 2.8%)* they are a concern, but by watching the games you can see all the little things that he does.

He reads defenses well, goes through his progressions, throws well on the run etc.

*Note: while this isn’t about Jones, Landry Jones’s INT rate was 1.9% last year and is now 2.6%, meaning his rate went up more than twice what Tannehill’s went up.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 4, 2011 12:57 AM EST up reply actions  

well his YPA is essentially the same but as for the Comp% and INT % (he more than doubled his attempts, INT’s are slightly up 2.5% to 2.8%)* they are a concern, but by watching the games you can see all the little things that he does.

I said essentially the same thing about Jones when you asked about his completion %, and you tore into me.

Just let’s please stop with the double standards………….both of us. Not for us, but for the sake of the readers. I’ll try my best to do it; I ask the same of you.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 6, 2011 8:39 AM EST up reply actions  

even still Flynn should be considered a viable alternative

In 1995 the Panthers and Jags were coming into the NFL and both needed a QB. The Panthers traded back a few slots and took Kerry Collins. While the Jags by passed both Collins and Steve McNair, took their stud LT Boselli and traded a couple picks for Mark Brunell.

Maybe Flynn won’t be Brunell, and Barkley/Jones will be far better than Collins, but it’s also a possibility that history repeats itself.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 1, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions  

y'all do realize

That he has a boss offense?
How many times have we seen a “good” QB who has a great offense succeed, and actually be that good elsewhere?
Matt Cassel anyone?

Fasten the bayonets in case we need 'em

by Civ216 on Dec 2, 2011 5:34 AM EST up reply actions  

well again this was one game

but remember that Grant, Finley and two starting offensive linemen were out of that game. So i’m not sure how great the offense was.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 2, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

I'd be fine with Flynn

if he was a very short term option until our new rookie took over. I just don’t see him wanting to be a back-up again, and I certainly don’t want to ignore drafting a rookie early this year, in hopes that Flynn could be our guy.

I only want a FA as a spot starter, and a backup to hold down the spot for our rookie. I’m not ready for another FA to attempt to become our starter.

Maybe we could do something similar to what Tenn did with hasslebeck this year, but it has to be short term, and there has to be a guy waiting in the wings.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 2, 2011 7:34 AM EST up reply actions  

and it could go that way, but my concern is this

what if we say “Oh we’ll just sign Stanton because we are drafting Barkley” but low and behold Barkley isn’t available, b/c the Dolphins took him. Griffin is a possibility, but he’s gonna need a year to transition (and it’s also possible that Griffin is off the board). Jones isn’t a fit unless Shanny changes his offense (not a top 10 pick). So then we are stuck. (also it is entirely possible that one of Griffin or Jones stays in school…obviously we’d know that by FA).

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 2, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Why do you keep saying Jones isn't a fit

and he’s not top 10??

Again, let me ask you, is Matt Schaub a fit in Houston? I’m sure you;ll come up with some kind of BS answer to skirt around the question like you always do, but you and I both know Schaub is a hell of a QB in Houston, and he and Jones share many of the same characteristics, with Jone’s holding a slight overall advantage.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 2, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Jones and Schaub:

They are of similar size and have a similar mobility.

Schaub is and was a far more accurate QB, who was pinpoint on the short and intermediate throws. He has a good arm, but it’s not great. He also ran a WCO in college and had 3 years of NFL experience before going to the Shanny system.

Jones doesn’t have the same accuracy, or is as cerebral with his progressions as Schaub in college. He’s got the big arm, but that isn’t the strength of this offense.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 2, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

What??????

Jones is a pure student of the game. He is very good with decision making, and he uses his eyes and shoulders to move the safety(and by the way, he does this very well). He’s perfectly fine with the short to intermediate passes, and is very accurate, but where he really shines are the deep crossing routes(digs), fades, and deep posts – all of which are a huge part of our offense(or I should say, would be a huge part of our offense, IF we had a QB who could execute them).

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 3, 2011 9:31 AM EST up reply actions  

you are giving him far too much credit here

he’s not nearly as advanced as you are proclaiming in setting up DB’s, and accurate passing.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 3, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

+1

I have my ship
And all her flags are a flyin'
She is all that I have left
And music is her name

by Redskin44 on Dec 1, 2011 9:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Dirty Sanchez, Donovan McNasty, Jason Campbell, and Kevin Kolb

I went off the criteria that they started at some point this year and weren’t injury fill-ins.

Sanchez sucks.

McNasty proved to everyone that Shanny was right.

Campbell is only as good as his run game.

Kolb is all hype.

Shut up DHall.

by 64ShagginWagon on Nov 30, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Watch now Sanchez will throw for 400 yards and 5 tds against us this week

If that happens I take full responsibility for his channeling of Drew Brees.

Shut up DHall.

by 64ShagginWagon on Nov 30, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Id take 3 of 4 over Rex

I have my ship
And all her flags are a flyin'
She is all that I have left
And music is her name

by Redskin44 on Nov 30, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d pass McNabb, but take the other 3 over Rex

I have my ship
And all her flags are a flyin'
She is all that I have left
And music is her name

by Redskin44 on Nov 30, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Here is 8

Jason Campbell, Tim Tebow, John Beck, Tavaris Jackson, Matt Leinart, Kerri Collins, Andy Dalton, Colt McCoy.

I am advocating not spending the 1st round draft pick on Jones or Barkely or RG3. That is all i am advocating. I would like a 2nd or 3rd round QB or a FA to be picked up. I would then like that QB to come in and compete against Rex for the starting spot. As for the biggest problem it is the line. I would prefer a OL to be selected in the 1st round or to trade back to pick up a few positions. This is my official position on what i would like to see happen.

When Gaffney drops the ball I blame Kyle. When Jammal Brown doesn't block I blame Kyle. When Barnes dives out a guys ankles and misses I blame Kyle.

by Jeff Bernard on Nov 30, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

possibilities

Matt Flynn?
Kyle Boller?
Jason Campbell?
Peyton Manning?
Vince Young?
Kyle Orton?
Chad Henne?
Brandon Weedon?

by sofutomygaha on Nov 30, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Don't forget Jamarcus Russell.

Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.

by CJHutch on Nov 30, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Sage Rosenfels!

I have my ship
And all her flags are a flyin'
She is all that I have left
And music is her name

by Redskin44 on Nov 30, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

  1. is incorrect, it will be Matty USC
  2. is half correct, we will in the 2nd round
  3. is half correctrect because Rocky is on a 1 year deal(i think), he won’t resigned
  4. is correct, is there any doubt

When Gaffney drops the ball I blame Kyle. When Jammal Brown doesn't block I blame Kyle. When Barnes dives out a guys ankles and misses I blame Kyle.

by Jeff Bernard on Nov 30, 2011 12:43 PM EST reply actions  

What I was saying

Is that qb’s are not a definite instant Peyton manning out of college. Not too many qb’s pan out to their expectations. I wouldn’t object to getting linemen 1st+ 2nd and a qb 3rd… NOT TANNENHILL. too raw I believe. We couldn’t stand fixing many of his flaws. We should also pick up Matt Flynn, but I think green bay will resign so…

Fasten the bayonets in case we need 'em

by Civ216 on Nov 30, 2011 1:28 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Not too many QB pan out to their expectations

yet not many(even rookies) turn out to be as bad as Rex/Beck. There is not 1 team in the NFL with a worse QB situation than us.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

no here I agree with Tiller

Texans and Chiefs will get healthier and they both added a late round developmental guy. The Jags have some upside in Gabbert, and Cards can salvage Kolb if they can ever protect him.

The Skins have no short or longterm hope, and even if Grossman is better than say a Gabbert, at least the Jags have a chance.

Where i do disagree is forcing the issue. If the Redskins feel more confident in a Matt Flynn type and drafting someone later it is a viable option.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Nov 30, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

This wasn't a discussion about the future

He is talking about right now. He is saying there isn’t one team in the NFL with a worse situation than us right now. I say the Texans- just signed Clemmons (who we cut), Jags- just benched their rook to go back to the guy they benched to start the rook, Chiefs- have Palko and Orton who was just claimed off waivers a week ago, and the Cards- Kolb who can’t stay on the field and isn’t playing well when on it.

We are not talking about longterm here. I’m not sure what you defenition of short term is so I can’t argue that until it’s defined.

I stand by my original post that there are five teams worse off then us.

Shut up DHall.

by 64ShagginWagon on Nov 30, 2011 11:03 PM EST up reply actions  

ahh I misunderstood then

I thought it was for next year and beyond. And for me short term is next year, long term anything after that.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Nov 30, 2011 11:05 PM EST up reply actions  

For the next 5 games we are better then those teams

As of the start of FA this year we will be worse if something doesn’t change. I pray to God that we have a new starter and backup QB when training camp opens nest year. That being said something tells me we haven’t seen the last of Sexy Rexy.

Shut up DHall.

by 64ShagginWagon on Nov 30, 2011 11:17 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah i have a feeling he might be back 'fighting for a job'

the thing that really scares me is if we haven’t seen the last of Jamaal Brown

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 1, 2011 12:52 AM EST up reply actions  

that doesn't suprise me about Jamaal Brown

Of all the things, we complain we have little depth at the o-line but Jamaal Brown is better than our benchers. STOP SAYING WE NEED TO GET RID OF HIM!!!
We can get rid of him in the future, when we have more depth and starters.

Fasten the bayonets in case we need 'em

by Civ216 on Dec 1, 2011 2:54 AM EST up reply actions  

 I think we can find a suitable replacement going into the 2012 season.

I have my ship
And all her flags are a flyin'
She is all that I have left
And music is her name

by Redskin44 on Dec 1, 2011 8:20 AM EST up reply actions  

what if Willie Smith is developing into that guy as we speak?

I’d assume the coaches, who work with these guys every day, see something they like in Hurt. I’ll also assume he improves with another year and the offseason program. What if, and I know this is a stupid thought around here, we actually develop guys like Hurt and Smith, instead of constantly going out and replacing 3-4 guys every year………………….just a thought!

I realize some people want IMMEDIATE IMPACT players, but what if we have some guys with potential, who just need a little time?

Would it likk us to let some of the young linemen we have, develop with a young QB, a young RB, and some young WR’s????

Thoughts?

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 1, 2011 8:39 AM EST up reply actions  

When I say replace Brown, i would like to replace him a pick in the 2nd. Sanders or Adcock would be fine by me. If Smith happens to develope into to that guy I would be more than happy

When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey

by Redskin44 on Dec 1, 2011 9:40 AM EST up reply actions  

I would too

but if I’m the coach, I know where guys like Hurt and Smith are at, and where they are heading. If we don’t see that 2nd round linemen, like many of us would like, maybe that’s the reason.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 1, 2011 10:20 AM EST up reply actions  

agreed

When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey

by Redskin44 on Dec 1, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions  

so since the coaches were okay with Grossman/Beck

you are okay now with them not getting a QB last year?

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 1, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

I was OK then and now (even though its painful to watch) with Shanny/Allen not taking a QB last year, because there were so many other holes to fill. Regardless of what the Skins did, I expected a losing season this year. So I believe they took the right approach by stockpiling draft picks.

A year later, I think we are much improved at many positions but there are still many holes. I’m hoping that Shanny/Allen focus on the offense this year in the draft by selecting a QB at 1 and two OL at 2 and 3 this year (assuming the right guys are available when they draft).

My agreement with the above statement is that if they don’t take an OL at 2 or 3 is that they then must see something in Hurt and Smith we as fans have not yet seen

When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey

by Redskin44 on Dec 1, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

it's just not a viable option though

if Hurt/Smith develop so much that they beat out whomever than fantastic, but how can we rely on that? And out of all our positions sans QB, we have younger/better talent.

RB: Helu, Royster, Torain (whom I don’t like but he’s still young)
WR: Hankerson, Paul, Robinson, Austin
DL: Neild, Jenkins to go along with our starters
LB: White, Jackson, Riley, Kerrigan, Orakpo
S: Gomes
CB: Barnes (not a huge fan of), Thompson to go along with our starters.

OL: Trent Williams…..

honestly we have to fill 5 starting spots and what should be 4 backup roles. And outside of Williams we don’t even have the starters. Maybe Hurt and Smith are backups, but even that is possibly a stretch (I’m not saying I wouldn’t have them in that role, but they will need to earn it). Hurt wasn’t even on the starting roster, and Smith has been inactive most games.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 1, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

a couple of points

I love how you have no problem assuming the coaches ‘see potential’ and basically know what they are doing with playing brown and developing Hurt/Smith, but you don’t buy their faith in Rexy or their ‘development’ of Beck.

What if Hurt and Smith are as good as Cook and Capers?? Then we are kinda screwed.

You can only develop guys if we have adequate starters in front of them, something that is quite clear that we do not.

And last I checked we only replaced one guy (Casey Rabach) this past year. I know it might seem like we replaced more since we decided to give a big contract to Jamaal Brown, but no he still sucks.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 1, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

But Steveo want's the line fixed NOW, before any QB is brought in

In his eyes, that’s the only way to do it. He doesn’t believe we can win with a decent O-Line, and he doesn’t even believe anyone we have besides TW is decent. He wants 4 new linemen(again), or he believes we will suck again.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 1, 2011 8:35 AM EST up reply actions  

we have a decent offensive line?? Since when??

Actually I’ve said I want 3 new starters and Chester and Licht battle it out for the last spot.

And if we continue to trot out these guys we will suck again. Not sure how that isn’t clear.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 1, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

a couple of things

I’d guess that anyone we have (Locklear, Polumbus, W. Smith) would be better than Brown, since the benchmark has now been set pretty low.

By keeping Brown you are wasting a roster spot on one of the worst RT’s in the league (and anyone who’s worse, costs a fraction of what Brown does). By keeping him he continues to eat up cap space (cutting him doesn’t save 2012 money, but it saves a nice chunk of 2013).

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 1, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Do need to keep Brown.

My dream scenario would be to start the season keeping TW, Licht, and Monty as starters. Hopefully replace Brown with an RT in the 2nd round (Sanders Adcock or Adams if he is still available), and we are really lucky replace Chester with Nix via FA. And if we are really lucky, Jones is still available at 3 (maybe even trade a 3 and 4) to move up to 2 to get him, and he can move in to replace Monty by mid or late season. Hurt, Smith, Chester, and Locklear are reserves, and maybe if Hurt pans out he pushes Licht for the starting job in 2013.

When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey

by Redskin44 on Dec 1, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions  

sorry dont need to keep brown*

When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey

by Redskin44 on Dec 1, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah I'm in basically the same boat

1. Make a big FA splash (Nicks or Grubbs)
2. sign another good free agent, probably a center (top target Chris Myers) (if not Monty can be a fall back, and makes C a higher draft priority. I think you have to get either Jones or Brewster)

3. Draft a RT in the 2nd
4. If you have signed another good FA, than you draft a guard in the 3rd or 4th. If you didn’t than you need to land a young center who can take over soon.
5. Licht and Chester battle it out for the final starting spot.

My ideal line: TW-Grubbs-Myers-Licht/Chester-Rookie RT

Backups: Smith, Licht/Chester, a swing tackle (maybe Locklear but maybe another FA who might be better at LT if Trent goes down…not a big signing though), rookie guard. Hurt and Cook can look to earn a spot, but barring injury they might be on the outside looking in.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 1, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I tend to be more gun shy about going the fa route after the last 10 yrs but I’d be game to replace Locklear as well with a tier II FA who could sub at LT.

When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey

by Redskin44 on Dec 1, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah for that I'm thinking someone like Anthony Collins or King Dunlap

not a big money signing at all.

As for the center spot, we need to spend that money one something and I’d much rather prefer spending it on the line than trying to ink a big name receiver.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 1, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

If the skins do

end up going with a rookie QB to start next year, they definetly will need another runner to lighten the load off of his and Helu’s back. I’d be tempted to think about bringing in Lynch if the price is right or getting one in the draft. I wish we had and extra 2nd to steal Polk

When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey

by Redskin44 on Dec 1, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed

even if it is an FA like Flynn we need a viable running game to help our passing attack.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 1, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions  

What is it about Flynn that you like

He did not look horrible in a game or two that he played when Rodgers was out with a concussion but over all he has looked pretty bad as a QB in the NFL. He has thrown more int.s than TDs, hasn’t won a game & doesn’t look like anything other than a mediocre back up

by ENsDad27 on Dec 1, 2011 8:58 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I keep asking the same question.

I think I have the answer though.

If we signed Flynn, steveo believes we can then use of our resources on O-line, this bypassing QB yet again.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 2, 2011 7:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Where?

Your mock drafts have been all over the place. One says Barkley, te other has us trading back, and taking freakin Adams in the first. And, you have openly said you’d perfer a trade back, and draft Tannehill approach.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 2, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

my mock draft with no trades has us now taking Griffin (since Barkley is off the board)

while that has potential, I’d rather sign Flynn and draft Tannehill (how is that not taking a QB?)

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 2, 2011 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Steve, we both like Tannehill

& I agree with many things that you post here & I am not being in any way sarcastic but I really do not know what you see in Matt Flynn. He has more int.s than TDs, has not won a game, was a 7th rd. prospect out of LSU & as far as I can see has not proved himself in any capacity as a QB in the NFL. He has been on a very good team & might end up with another SB ring but he didn’t do anything other than hold a clipboard to earn them.

by ENsDad27 on Dec 2, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Look I'm by no means saying Flynn is a lock

But I think he has upside and potential, and he appears like he’s ready to start. Is it a risk, yes absolutely. I mean we’ve had a Pro Bowl/Playoff QB with 30,000 yards to his name blow up in our face. And if Flynn cost a deal similar to McNabb, Kolb etc. I’d say no (if it was like a 4th and 7th I’d consider it). But the only issue here would be cap space and if the Redskins are smart they will just put the guaranteed money in the first two years so then if you cut him you aren’t taking a big hit. My concern about him being the real deal is why I’d invest in Ryan Tannehill and also have a 3rd QB on the roster (something they should do regardless).

As for the numbers look at Brunell’s, Hasselbeck’s, Schaub’s etc. numbers were before being traded for. Brett Favre had 5 dropbacks his rookie year which led to a sack and 0-4 numbers (with two INT’s). Maybe Flynn won’t be named with this group one day, but maybe he will.

I want a QB who can play next year so Rexy doesn’t have to, and outside of Luck and maybe Weeden I don’t see that in the draft. As I said before we could strikeout on QB’s in the draft (and I don’t believe we should be trading up for one) in the first round, so I’d like to have a viable option in place prior to the end of April.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 2, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I am not doubting your strategy

I also believe we should have a backup plan & are able to have a veteran if we DO draft a QB so as to not place a rookie in a position that they are not ready for. I just don’t understand why you think that Matt Flynn would be an upgrade over Rex Grossman. I would rather they tried to sign Chad Henne or Matt Moore as I doubt that both will stay in Miami this off season & both have had at least some success as a QB in the NFL.

by ENsDad27 on Dec 2, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

well Henne is a free agent so I'm sure they'll keep Moore

and he could be an option, as could guys like Drew Stanton, Caleb Hanie, Kyle Orton, or even Brady Quinn.

I say Flynn because he’s basically the consensus top FA QB available, and he’s gotten good marks from a number of analysts. I’m not 100% sold, but it is enough that I’ll bite.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 2, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

my mock draft with no trades has us now taking Griffin (since Barkley is off the board)

One of your mocks, that you linked to Fanspeak, had us taking Barkley.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 2, 2011 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

yes i know, hence why I said "now"

again i’m not saying that QB isn’t an issue or a priority, but if we don’t have either Barkley or Griffin on the board, I’d trade back easily. And since that is a risk, I’d sign Flynn and trade back to fill more needs (while still taking a QB in the 2nd).

I’m not against Barkley, I just don’t
‘love him’.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 2, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

well I'd say he looked better than 'not horrible' in that Pats game

but I like the fact that he’s developed and rose up the depth chart in Green Bay. I like that the Packers have had absolute faith in him as Rodgers back-up these last couple of years and haven’t tried to bring in a more established veteran. I like that he’s gotten good marks in practice and preseason games from analysts and coaches.

Is he the greatest thing since sliced bread? No, but unlike most of these situations (Kolb, Cassel, Brunell) we don’t have to trade for him. As for having more INT’s than TD’s i’m not too concerned, It’s a small sample size, and if players were based solely on that Brett Favre, Mark Brunell, Matt Hasselbeck etc. never would have gotten traded for.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 2, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions  

This is my plan too

so what the hell are we arguing about Steveo?

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 1, 2011 6:25 PM EST up reply actions  

not sure honestly

I presented an alternative theory, one that also protects the Redskins from the fact that they might not even get a shot at Barkley (or Griffin). Jones isn’t worth a top 10 pick, nor a good fit for our offense. Signing Flynn means the Redskins don’t have to force a QB or make a trade up (which takes away the whole 2nd round tackle plan).

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 1, 2011 8:54 PM EST up reply actions  

we could end up

10,11, or 12 if we win 2 more games. Would you take Jones then?

When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey

by Redskin44 on Dec 1, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

possibly

but I just don’t see him as a fit for this offense

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 2, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

So I guess 65%

when you are averaging almost 9 YPA is not accurate anymore?

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 2, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

by that of course you mean 64.1% of his passes

and 8.3 YPA.

When you are in a spread offense you’re completion percentage should be much higher.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 2, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I averaged his last 2 seasons

as I don’t believe it’s fair to do to any QB to average their freshmen season. And yes, it’s 65%. If you average over 60% and have a YPA over 7, that’s pretty good.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 2, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions  

it's good but it's not great for a college football QB

esp. one in a spread offense.

For instance Sam Bradford (in the same offense) averaged over 68% completion rate and over 9.2 YPA during his freshman and sophomore years (his two full years as a starter).

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 2, 2011 7:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Stoops does not run a true spread

he has aspects of the spread, but it’s not the urban meyer, of Chip Kelly spread. His offense is much more pro style, than true spread.

Anyways, 65% completion, and 8.3 YPA is damn good – argue all you want, but you know I’m right.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 3, 2011 9:35 AM EST up reply actions  

just b/c it's not a running spread does not make it a spread offense

those numbers are good, but you are proclaiming they are elite which they are not.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 3, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions  

I never said the numbers are elite

I always said they were very good. I did say that I think Jones is an elite prospect.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 3, 2011 6:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Your just nuts in the head

if you don’t think Jones is a top 10 pick.

Also, please answer me this: Jones has many of the characteristics of Matt Schaub; size, arm strength, accuracy, decision making, leadership. Matt does a hell of a job in Houstons offense. Why do you think Jones would not be good in ours?

I think what you fail to realize is that Jones is a much better atllete that your giving him credit for. He also throws very well on the run, when asked to do so.

This is from your boy Wes Bunting on Jones(you did tell me you liked Wes Bunting):

Has experience playing from both the gun and under center.
- Gets good initial depth on his drop, balances himself well and is comfortable off play action.
- Does a nice job pre-snap identifying his hot man and gets the ball out of his hands quickly.
- Showcases good rhythm and timing underneath, gets the ball out quickly with "plus" ball placement.
- Throws a very catchable football on all levels of the field. Is comfortable taking a little off the throw and dropping bucket throws into his receiver’s hands down the field.
- When he does throw with a wide base from the pocket he can spin the football well in the intermediate pass game and stick throws on a line into tight windows with above-average accuracy.
- Possesses more than enough natural arm strength to make all the throws.
- Spreads the ball around well, doesn’t play favorites and uses his full arsenal of weapons.
- Exhibits a consistent release point, gets the ball out quickly and is able to make all the throws needed over the line of scrimmage.
- Will locate a second target in the pass game.
- Possesses average foot coordination when trying to reset his feet and align his body when coming off an initial read and trying to find a secondary option.
- Has been very productive during his three years as a starter and has overcome the adversity to replacing a talent like Sam Bradford.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 2, 2011 7:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Now here are the things you listed as the top attributes in your QB:

1. Accuracy- top priority for me as the windows get a lot smaller at the NFL level. It’s more than just completion percentage as it involves hitting a receiver in stride and on the numbers.

2.Decision Making/Football IQ- I don’t really see these as separate categories. There are some minor differences depending on how you define it, but the way I look at it is, they are both essential for a QB.

3. Pocket Presence- I want a guy who can step up or slide in the pocket to buy some time for his receiver. While the ‘buying time’ is part of it, the biggest key here is keeping his eyes down the field. If he is looking at where the rush is, he’ll miss the open receiver or the safety looking to jump the route.

4. Mechanics- Look it doesn’t have to be cookie cutter or textbook, as we’ve seen guys like Phillip Rivers succeed with on paper ‘horrible mechanics’, but it has to be functional. Tim Tebow’s elongated throwing motion makes him a risk to try to throw the ball even 25 times a game, much less 35-45 times like in some high powered offenses. The two main areas here are throwing motion and footwork.

5. Arm Strength- Now the easiest definition for arm strength is distance, and that is part of it. But functional arm strength is more about the precision of the deep ball, and the velocity (and the ability to take something off) of the throw. Jason Campbell could throw the ball 60-65 yards in the air, but he didn’t have great velocity which led to some ‘rainbow’ throws. Those might work in college, but in the NFL DB’s will surely knock those down or pick them off. Donovan McNabb has the velocity (not the accuracy), but he’s also not good about taking something off his throws when he needs too. Personally I’d rather my quarterback have the functional armstrength to hit all the 25-40 yard throws, even if his ‘deep ball’ isn’t the best. You aren’t going to throw 50-60 yard bombs nearly as often, and even in the best circumstances (great receiver, single coverage, top arm strength) they aren’t a ‘high percentage throw’.

6. Leadership: I want my quarterback to be the leader on and off the field. I want him to be able to control his receivers and other offensive players and be an extension of the coaching staff on the field. I also put attitude in this category, as some very good quarterbacks (Rivers even Cutler somewhat) don’t have a great attitude and it shows when things start breaking down

Let’s compare them whit what your boy Wes Bunting had to say on Jones:
1.) – Accuracy – Well according to bunting, and to his 65% completion %, he certainly has this.
2.) Decision making/IQ – again, check the scouting report from above. Jones passes this catagory too.
3.) Pocket presence – this is the only area where he could use some work, but I will say, his sacks are down this year(I think only 7), and his line is not amazing.
4.) Mechanics – obviously no problem here
5.) Arm Strength – Jones has one of the best arms in college football; no doubt.
6.) Leadership – This one is pretty obvious too. He’s a gtreat leader both on and off the field, and a guy of very high character.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 2, 2011 7:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Point is Steveo

This guy has about everything YOU look for in a QB, yet you have a problem with him. Please explain?

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 2, 2011 7:52 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not trying to sell you on Jones

I’m just tring to point out how your opinions are all over the board.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 2, 2011 7:54 AM EST up reply actions  

actually that is not close to true:

1 Accuracy: Jones ranks in the good category here, and Bunting only ever says he’s ‘above average’

2. Jones does well here but again this isn’t the strength, and once again that is showed in Bunting’s scouting report.

3. Pocket presence- This is Jones weakest point, again well highlighted in the scouting report.

4. Mechanics- I’d put him in the good department, though Bunting’s report talks about how he gets sloppy with his footwork.

5. Armstrength- no argument here

6. Leadership- no argument here either

Jones ranks well below Luck, Barkley, Tannehill and Weeden in the areas I’m looking for.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 2, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Jones ranks well below Luck, Barkley, Tannehill and Weeden in the areas I’m looking for.

haha………….can you say agenda! Obviously, although you claim to have, you haven’t watched this kid play over the last two years.

Please, do yourself a favor, and go watch more tape on him……………..hell, I know you already missed the games, but they’re all over youtube.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 2, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

What agenda?

I’ve watched 9 of his 11 games this year, and probably 7 or 8 of his 14 games last year. Not sure how i’ve misrepresented anything about Jones.

He doesn’t have great accuracy, he’s not mobile, he has good pocket awarness of the rush, but he doesn’t throw good spirals when on the move. In college those might be completions but they won’t be in the NFL. He’s in a spread offense that jacks up his numbers and he’s highly reliant on his talent around him.

What makes you think he is a fit for the Redskins system at all? And also what makes you think he’ll be an elite QB?

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 2, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

haha
but he doesn’t throw good spirals when on the move

Now your just making shit up.

Again, your either lying to me about watching games, and are going solely on some reports you read, or you are a horrible judge of QB talent – It’s gotta be one or the other.

Just out of curiosity, did you ever play of coach QB’s. Not being a wise ass; just asking.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 2, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

well since i'm not lying, I can evaluate all players including QB's, and I'm not going off of reports (though it is nice that they back you up)

Dude it’s a fact Jones isn’t as good as you make him out to be and there is no video evidence, scouting reports or anything else that you have to back you up.

and no to answer your question I never played or coached Qb’s.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 2, 2011 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I have see everything I need to see from Jones

to make him a lock as a top 10 pick. Disagree as much as you want. I sure disagree with a lot of your picks and assessments.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 2, 2011 6:04 PM EST up reply actions  

no kidding

but you don’t see me making false claims that you don’t watch games or just get your opinions based on things you read.

I love how you have still yet to answer to the criticisms that Bunting pointed out by the way.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 2, 2011 7:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I read the Bumting article way before I commented on it here

I actually had is saved as a favorite, as I wanted to refer to it in future posts.

For one, I don’t like Bunting. I believe he is too one-sided in his assesments, and won’t change, asthe prospect changes. He seems to take an early stance on these guys, and never moves from that, eventhough the prospects play reflects differently.

I am going to do a seperate post about Jones amswering some of the questions.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 3, 2011 9:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Like I said

I don’t like him, and don’t follow him much because of the reasons i stated. I really don’t follow too many of these guy. If anyone, I respect Mayock the most, although I believe he too makes some absurd observations, and is way off quite a bit.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 3, 2011 6:58 PM EST up reply actions  

What makes you think he is a fit for the Redskins system at all? And also what makes you think he’ll be an elite QB?

Again, I compare him a lot to Matt Schaub, only a better athlete, and a stronger arm. Schaub is doing great in Houston, and did well when Kyle was there.

I think Jones, with his natural abilities, will be a great fit in DC. He has all the intangibles. Aside from being able to tuck and run for 30 yards gains, he has it all: Smarts, Accuracy, Leadership, Arm Strength, Pocket awareness, winner on the biggest stage, big game pressure, led his team to comeback road victories, good moral character, great size, pretty durable.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 2, 2011 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think there is a good comparison between Schaub and Jones

Schaub is far more accurate and better with those timing throws and crossing routes. Jones is more of a down field passer with a stronger arm.

Jones grades well on smarts and Leadership, but he’s not off the charts (which is something I’d want for my top 10 QB).

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 2, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

What????

he’s a great leader, as stated by his HC(said he’s one of the best he’s ever been around), and his Football IQ is great. Not sure what your seeing to think otherwise.

And please, for the love of god, you have to stop bringing up the accuracy. The kid is VERY accurate.

The ONLY knock you could have, and that’s if you actually watched games of his over the last 2 years, is his mobility…………..that’s it. Everything else is very good to great.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 2, 2011 6:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Look I'm not knocking Jones in any of those categories

i’m just saying he isn’t perfect.

Oklahoma has lost some games over the years to teams that they had far more talent than. Is it solely Jones’ fault? No, but some of that takes away from him being a leader

Jones isn’t very accurate and I’m not sure why you keep insisting otherwise. It is clear watching games, looking at his numbers and reading scouting reports.

Now i’m not saying he’s Jake Locker here in the accuracy department, but he’s just in the ‘good’ range.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 2, 2011 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

The ONLY thing that Jones may lack

is mobility. Aside from that, he’s got it all. And FWIW, he’s got better mobility that people credit him for. You’ll see at the combine.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 2, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

does he have better mobility than Peyton Manning? Sure

but he’s not even on Jay Cutler’s level.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 2, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

He's probably on Schaub's level

but slightly higher athletically, with better foot speed. I see good pocket presence, and a very quick release. I also see good decision making, and the ability to look off a safety. Combine those, and he’s fine.

FWIW, he’s much better than Grossman.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 2, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree he's on Schaub's level with mobility

but he doesn’t have the same accuracy and smarts that Schaub had coming out. Schaub also had more experience in similar offenses.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 2, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

WHY what evidence do you have to say that he possesses top level accuracy?

and no his completion percentage doesn’t do that, most spread offensive QB’s are in the high 60’s to low 70’s (that are any good)

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 2, 2011 7:44 PM EST up reply actions  

oh if only the things you said were true

Here’s what Bunting said he didn’t like about Jones:

- Is a limited athlete inside the pocket, has a tough time avoiding the rush with subtle movements and too often his eye level drops when he feels pressure.
- If you get him to move off his spot he doesn’t look real natural buying time in the pocket and his accuracy suffers because of it.
- Rarely is asked to work the entire field, more of an initial read guy who will stick to one side of the field only when trying to find a secondary option.
- Can be a bit slow footed when he knows the football needs to come out. Will throw flat-footed and stand upright, taking away from his accuracy/velocity in the pocket when throwing down the field.
- Doesn’t have a great feel throwing receivers open prior to them getting out of their breaks outside the numbers.
- Too often needs to see the throws before letting go of the football.
- Not the kind of athlete who can consistently square his shoulders up on the move, throws from some bad angles at times, which hurts accuracy and ability to deliver the football.
- Doesn’t consistently reset his feet, widen his base and really stride toward his target, causing passes to hang on him at times.
- Strikes me as a fair weather quarterback who hasn’t played his best on the road in tough situations/environments.

And in his final thoughts note which everyone can read here http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Landry-Jones-vs-Andrew-Luck.html&page=2

Bunting said that he thinks Jones is talented, but only has starting potential. He’s not a guy who can carry a team and will need a number of talented pieces around him to be successful.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 2, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

I knew you'd find this

and I knew you would post when you did. I’m sure as soon as you saw my most, you went diggiing to find out for yourself. Just means that you didn’t know this before, and shows how much you rely on someone’s elses opinions to make your own.

Sorry for trapping your here. It wasn’t very nice on my part. Was just trying to prove a point though.

I would respect your opinions so much more if you formulated them yourself, and stopped stealing others thoughts.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 2, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Wait what???

I wasn’t the one who went searching for Wes Bunting? I read all of his articles, as I read all of Tony Pauline’s, Rob Rang’s, Chad Reuter’s, Mel Kiper’s, and the Scouts Inc, crew. I also read Scott Wright, Adam Caplan and a host of other draft sites as well.

I read that article when it came out so I’m not sure how I rely on someone else’s opinion. If you actually watch Jones you will see everything that Bunting says.

How did I steal thoughts? I actually used a quote box to distinguish that they weren’t my own thoughts? And I used them to show how you completely misrepresented Bunting.

I’ve stated my own opinions of Jones multiple times.So i’m not sure what you are talking about. As you def. didn’t trap me.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 2, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't mean you stole them

I mean you use what he say’s in almost verbatum, when you talk about Jones. Thats why I used this article, and that’s also why I say you must not watch any games for yourself.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 2, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

huh?

where have I used anything in that report verbatim? We’ve been debating about Jones for almost two weeks now, and that article came out what yesterday?

The more I watch Jones the more I think he needs to be in a Patriots or Colts style offense where he can pass alot from shotgun and not have to do a lot of play action or rollout plays.

I don’t see how that is me not watching the games for myself. I don’t just look at completions, but I look at every part of the play (incompletions as well). And Jones is not a guy who I think translates well to the Shanny offense. And I see him more of a moderate risk/high reward prospect who just doesn’t fit our system.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 2, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

did u copy and paste this from 2 weeks ago redskins44?

no way we are picking 3rd. no way those 2 olinemen are there with our 2nd round picks. i think we will win 2 more games that will put us in the mid teens. its gonna cost way too much to go up in this draft my friend. i think the teams trading up are gonna have to give up so much. there wont be many trades come draft day.even teams that dont need a qb right now but have a aging qb can draft that qb and let him set at little cost. i think its gonna be so bad the nfl might make a rule change of some kind for the 2013 draft. because every team will want ricky willaims type deals.

by munson21502 on Dec 2, 2011 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

What?????

Leinhardt, Orton, and Kolb are all far better than Rex.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

It was ok

I guess in Rex standards it was good. For any other QB is was ok

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

man

don’t know what to say then. I’m, for once, at a loss for words

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

No, you can't do that

go read that young kids post of stats and Grossman before posting stuff like this.

When talking about Rex, you throw stats out the window……….come on, you know that.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

you can't do it by stats

the others haven’t had the time Rex has had. Give Kolb 3 years as a starter, then we can compare the two. Ole’ Matt, well IDK if he’s going to get a chance to start anwhere, so he might be hopeless. Still, I think he’d do better than Rex.

But then again, I also thought Beck would do better than Rex, and we saw how that turned out.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Rex is my least favorite QB in the NFL

Donovan was my 2nd least favorite. I had the HONOR of having the two QB’s I hate the most on my team in back-to-back years. Put yourself in my shoes.

These are not new feelings………..I’ve had these for years now.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

That's fine....I understand. I don't like Rex either

But don’t let emotion cloud your mind so that you can’t see the facts, black and white on paper….

by StephanHart on Nov 30, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I have been a Redskins fan since I was 7

I have Never, let me repeat Never, went into a season with this little hope for the future of our team, than I did this year. I always believed we had a chance, even when we had Spurrior and Weurfel, but not this year. I just couldn’t get up for the season like I used to.

I blame it on the QB’s

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I felt that way last year. This year at least there are some young players who offer a glimmer of hope despite the qb situation

I have my ship
And all her flags are a flyin'
She is all that I have left
And music is her name

by Redskin44 on Nov 30, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions  

You hate Rex more than Romo?

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Nov 30, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

RICHARD THE LEINHARDT!

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Nov 30, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

If he can pull off a moonsault then he's cool w/ me.

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Dec 1, 2011 9:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Green Bay won't resign Matt Flynn

no way he wants to continue to sit when he has starting possibilities out there

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Nov 30, 2011 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Why go the FA QB route again

I see nothing special about Quinn. At lease a Rookie has a chance to be special. Quinn has a much lower celing.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions  

not necessarily

he might not have the same ceiling as Luck, but other than that I can see Flynn being another Brunell or Hasselbeck (and it’s not just guys who changed teams, a Romo would be the same sort of story).

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Nov 30, 2011 11:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe Flynn just likes the packers

I mean I would probably be a back-up to a super bowl winning team…

Fasten the bayonets in case we need 'em

by Civ216 on Dec 1, 2011 2:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Please explain to me how and when Flynn was a big time college QB

If you go the NC route, I’ll tear you apart even more. Please, do some research before you answer this in order to save yourself the embarrassment of looking even more stupid that you already come off being.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 1, 2011 9:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Never said you were stupid

I said you could save youself the embarrassment of looking even more stupid that what your coming off as being. Saying YOUR stupid, vs saying the comments you are making are making you LOOK stupid, are two different things.

People say stupid comments; which you definitly are doing, and sometimes those comments make one look stupid, which you are also doing. I’m not saying your stupid, rather your making yourseld LOOK stupid.

Also, if your arguement is for Flynn, vs Grossman or a Rookie, your going against your own logic, as Flynn has only one year, with average stats to show in college(while the top 4 rookie QB’s have had at least 3 years of good college ball to show on their resume’s. And Flynn against Grossman arguement, would be the same one your fighting against me with Kolb…………….Flynn is the better option over Grossman, yet he doesn’t have the stats to back that up, because he’s yet to be given the opportunity.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 1, 2011 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

a 4 year apprenticeship in the NFL with the same staff that developed Rodgers isn't nothing.

now is it more or less than what Barkley/Jones did in college is unclear. But really Flynn def. has some things going for him. And unlike most rookies, he’d be ready day 1.

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Dec 1, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

you guys are crazy........

if you think the skins aren’t going to get a QB in the draft. we’ve had too many years of bad QB’s, not to do so.(except for campbell) the mcnabb thing tanked, getting rid of campbell tanked, staking a reputation on gross/beck tanked. so what’s the next logical move? and i’d rather go by the draft and keep grossman, instead of bringing in matt flynn.

by alleykatt1000 on Nov 30, 2011 3:57 PM EST reply actions  

So up above your arguing with me that Rex plays good games

but here your asking what makes someone think Rex will play better next year?

So what is it? You all over the place on this one.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I said Rex was better than many of the QB's you listed saying you would take before him

Rex’s stats this year have been right in line with his career avg. He will trend to play this way, not better.

I’m all for a QB other than Rex. But I would take Rex over Kolb, Leinart, Whitehurst, Tavaris Jackson, etc.

by StephanHart on Nov 30, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

How though..........

Rex is, well, just bad………..even on his good days, he’s, well, just bad. There is nothing he does that is good. If he had just one good attribute, like he was a good leader, or he was uber accurate, of he performed well under pressure, of he had amazing arm strength, or he wasn’t fat…………………….just give me anything. I just see nothing in his game that is above average……………….and I do mean nothing.

If I’m wrong, point it out to me………………….i’m just not seeing it.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

The stats just support it Tiller

Rex is better than those guys.

Doesn’t mean he’s good. Just means he’s better than other QB’s in the league, that’s all.

I can’t believe I’m even talking about Rex, I don’t want him QBing this team

by StephanHart on Nov 30, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I can't see it though

I’m trying………………very hard mind you, but I can’t see it at all. At least the other guys still have room for imporovement………………………..not Rex. Dude it completely maxed out. If he was a 23 year-old QB, and was performing like this, I wouldn’t be all that upset. But he’s a fat 30 year old, with poor mobility, poor arm strength, bad decision making, and tiny little hands.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Kolb has him beat on potential alone

Matt is a big ?…………but if I had to take one to start next year, between matt and Rex, it would be Matt………..and I hate to say that, because I don’t like Matt

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

And yes, in all seriousness

Kolb(and I)have better potential than Rex

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Unfair comparison though

It’s like saying that Rex(next year of course) is a better QB than Andrew Luck. You need a few years as a starter to compare equally.

Aside from that, all I can go on is potential. Is Andrew Luck a better QB than Kellen Moore? Everyone in their right mind will say yes, but Moore’s stats beg to differ.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Once again, illogical

I said look at the stats…Rex is better than those two.

But you wont look at the stats because it doesn’t matter, you just know Kolb is a better QB…

illogical

by StephanHart on Nov 30, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I see things differently

than a lot of people do. I don’t know what else to tell you. Let me just ask you this: If Rex was/is a better QB than Kolb, why didn’t Arizona just sign him as a FA, instead of wasting all those picks on Kolb? Could it be, that they saw something that led them to believe he was simply better than Rex?

Do college scouts just go out and look for the QB who has the best stats in the nation, and say…….well, bu golly, this guy has the best stats, therefore he MUST be the best QB in the country. NO, they look at intangibles, and how a guy will fit into their system. A lot of times)like I’ve said 1000 times)stats don’t tell the whole story. Yeah, their fun for the fantasy football owner, but they often rean shit in the real aspect of the game.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 5:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Your comparing apples to oranges though

that’s what I’m trying to point out to you this whole time. If a QB hasn’t had the time as a starter to compare with another QB, you take your comparisons, and you make them on other things, like intangibles, and potential. Rex has better stats than a lot of rookie QB, and 2nd year guys, but ask yourself why that is?

If you even attempt to say that Rex is a better QB than say sam Bradford, of Matt Stafford, well then your just dilusional.

Compare a young Rex, and his stats to those who are in a similar situation if you JUST want to play the stat game. Obviously, with a guy like Flynn, who hasn’t had much starting experience, you have to go on other things to compare the two.

I’ll go out on a limb here, and assume GM’s don’t go to NFL.com, and look up the stats between Kolb and Grossman, to decide who will be the next QB of their team.

I don’t mind debating with you on this stuff, if you keep an open mind, and put things into the proper perspective, but your letting your ignorance preceed you here.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 1, 2011 9:39 AM EST up reply actions  

I'll say this

Kolb def. has more potential than Rex, but Rex is far cheaper in both financial cost and compensation. Given the spot the Redskins were in this summer they made the right now. Where they veered was not bringing anyone else (or any merit in). Someone like Matt Moore would have offered some decent competition (I also would have signed a UDFA guy like Devlin or Weber).

Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com

by Steve Shoup on Nov 30, 2011 11:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I would have loved Matt Moore

Just give me a QB with some intangibles – like the ability to throw over 50 yards, and the ability to at least run away from a 330lb d-linemen. Hell, maye even a guy who isn’t afraid to step up into the pocket, and step into his throws. I’d even take a guy who will throw the ball away in the redzone, instead of throwing it to the other team.

Just give me something………..anything. That’s all i’m asking for. Rex brings nothing to the table, except an understanding of the offense…………which he clearly can’t run.

It’s like being able to understand how to dunk a basketball, but just physically not being able to reach the rim.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Dec 1, 2011 8:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Do you read your posts?

Rex literally just last game stepped up in pocket and threw the ball about 55 yards in air and it was not a lob it was a bullet. The o had over 400 yards and a qb rating over 90. How does this happen when a homeless guy is supposedly better than our qb

by CommunistKevin on Dec 1, 2011 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

You should try out.

Maybe you can start with the Arena team here in Richmond. I’ll shack you up for a couple of days.

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Nov 30, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I would make the team, then get injured

can’t afford to have that happen at 34.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Pretty sure Noland Burchette would sit on your head

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Nov 30, 2011 5:05 PM EST up reply actions  

One day I'll get my ass down to a game

and we’ll throw the ole pigskin around at a tailgate……………and yes, I do throw well drunk, I just can’t catch well drunk.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Too late Kevin and I are taking up roller hockey for future tailgates

We came up with it last night.

You may be a good drunk/tailgate QB, but what you don’t realize is that you’re using a Vortex football.

Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions

by Parks Smith on Nov 30, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I throw only official leather

no vortex, no synthetic, no nerf. I won’t even buy my 5 year old a soft football. He learned to catch and throw an official Wilson K2 pee-wee ball.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

ahhh

I used to love K2s when i was a kid.

by PAinfUL on Dec 1, 2011 4:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Someone drank a lot of Kool-Aid if they think Rex will be better next year. We’ve seen Grossman’s best.

by ATLtruth on Nov 30, 2011 4:56 PM EST reply actions  

Most logical people realize this

and I think we saw our best from Rex years ago…………………he’s done nothing but get worse. Then, on top of it all, I get people telling me he’s a better QB than Kevin Kolb…………………man!

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 5:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Meh arguing incremental differences between bad QBs is pretty pointless. I think either will be a long-shot each season to play well enough consistently to get their team to the playoffs. I will say its far worse to be stuck with Kolb at his contract than Grossman on his 1 year deal for 1 mil.

by ATLtruth on Nov 30, 2011 5:17 PM EST up reply actions  

He is

Just needs the tools. How many super bowls has Kevin kolb been led to? 0. How many did grossman go to? 1. And STILL with a shitty wr corps. But he had an o-line, so that saved him. Defense was awesome that year for the bears.

Fasten the bayonets in case we need 'em

by Civ216 on Nov 30, 2011 5:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I think you hit that on the head

Defense for the Bears. That’s a poor comparison too, considering Kolb is in his first year as the unquestioned starter, and got injured.

Crying Lion

by Tiller56 on Nov 30, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Building a defense that good and getting a returner like Devin Hester is far less likely that drafting a QB with better talent than Grossman.

by ATLtruth on Nov 30, 2011 5:29 PM EST up reply actions  

i'm not a rex lover

but when you way in on what he’s capable of and compare him to someone who you know nothing about, then it’s a risk factor with someone new. i was on the beck train, but when he got his chance, he looked like a deer in headlights. honestly i think we would’ve beat carolina and buffalo if rex played……ha ha! but, with him finishing out this year, and with training camp, i think he’ll gel a lil more with the team. but this is where you’re in a win win if you draft a good QB. if grossman severely sucks then maybe by week 6(with the new oline gelling more) you can bring in the rookie and see what he’s got

by alleykatt1000 on Nov 30, 2011 5:16 PM EST reply actions  

Tiller

We get you hate Rex and that he is not great. But you go overboard on how much he stinks. He played good against Dallas and Seattle you have to admit that. Ha and he is better than Leinart. Kolb is debatable still

by CommunistKevin on Dec 1, 2011 1:34 PM EST reply actions  

he was mediocre at best against seattle

he had some terrible decisions, and one of the worst INTs I’ve seen in quite some time.

"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Dec 1, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I understand he turned it over twice

but when you complete over 60 percent and go over 300 and have 2 Td passes and win the game. I consider it a good game. Sorry I don’t focus on 1 bad pass

by CommunistKevin on Dec 1, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

it wasn't one bad pass.

he had lots of bad passes, only two got picked off.

it was an average game by an average QB

"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Dec 2, 2011 9:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Jesus christ

The rex hatred is blind. He is a below average starter for sure due to turnover issues. But he has positive traits. Quick release, quick decision making, adaquate arm, consistent mechanics, can move in pocket a little. Half of the names listed as supposedly better than him are insane. He is 5-6 as our starter. Not good but better record than mcnabb or beck. Also he puts up 300 yards on a decent basis. His turnovers are what kills him and never allowed him to become what people thought he could be. But let’s not overblow it. David Carr? Are you freaking kidding me? Kerry Collins at this point? I mean you claim to be a decent scout of qbs yet you act like he does not belong in the league. Get real

by CommunistKevin on Dec 1, 2011 1:48 PM EST reply actions  

He did go overboard with some guys like Matt “I always check-down” Leinhart, but you are going too far the other way. Adequate arm isn’t true. Grossman’s arm is well below average. Quick decision making is not the same as smart decision making. His mechanics are not consistent and he will often make bad throws with improper footwork. He is also extremely immobile.

The bottom line is that Grossman is not talented enough to provide the Redskins with consistent quality QB play.

by ATLtruth on Dec 1, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Ha I did not say smart decision making

just quick. His arm is not that weak. That is a myth he threw the ball 55 yards in the air just last game. And it was not some lobbed out heave with all of his strength. Also the giants game slant to gafney for the Td shows his arm is adequate. Not strong I don’t think, but adequate.

by CommunistKevin on Dec 1, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

The bottom line is he's our best option

Go watch the Bills game and how the players responded to the Beckster. 10 Sacks. That is all. The players want Rex and he is definitely a better option than the Stormin Mormon. He moves the ball better and we actually score TDs every now and then. Just trhow mre to Sleepy dammit.

I think it’s pretty much established that no one wants Rex in effect as our starter next year. I would love to see a young early first round pick whose name ryhmes with Bandrew Buck. But since that aint happening I would take one or two others and be perfectly happy.

Most of us would also love never seeing Brown in a Skins uni ever again. What can Brown do for me? Get out.

Shut up DHall.

by 64ShagginWagon on Dec 1, 2011 10:11 PM EST reply actions  

You lost me at brown

Brown=Beck?

When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." -Russell Ziskey

by Redskin44 on Dec 1, 2011 10:52 PM EST up reply actions  

My bad

Long, shitty day. Kind of combined two subjects into one post without real segway. I guess I felt like also pointing out how shitty Brown was. Usually posting about our horrible QB situation segways into a discussion about our horrible right tackle situation. I thought I would head it off at the pass.

Shut up DHall.

by 64ShagginWagon on Dec 1, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Who was even talking about Beck? Of course its clear after those games that he isn’t a long-shot worth betting on anymore. I don’t fault Shanny for taking a chance since you know Grossman isn’t going to provide you with consistent enough play. You say no one wants Rex as our starter next year but I’ve seen a lot of Rex creep seeping in after a few solid games.

Its important that people continue to realize his severe limitations and the absolute vital need of the Skins to have a long term solution at the position in place next year. Its more important than OL and it is going to determine whether the Shanny project will succeed or not (not next year but certainly years 4 and 5 and maybe whether years 4 and 5 even happen).

by ATLtruth on Dec 2, 2011 12:06 AM EST up reply actions  

the only prediction that matters skins get peyton manning and trade for desean jackson welcome to snyder ball = jersey sales and ticket sales and skins dominate national tv.

lohaus #54

by lohaus#54 on Dec 2, 2011 11:44 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Media Requests please email hogshaven@gmail.com

Managers

Superbowl_small Kevin Ewoldt

Riggins_small Ken Meringolo

Editors

Sb_small Parks Smith

Small Steve Shoup

Chalkboard_football-opt403x300o00s403x300_small UkRedskin

Washington_redskins_helmet_small Redskins News

Authors

Badshirt2__2__small fatpickle

Family_in_disney_small Tiller56

Rg3super_small HTTR4LIFE

Hh_small Ronnie Adkins