Opinions are like A$$holes- Everybodies got one
by 64ShagginWagon on Nov 27, 2011 11:56 PM EST
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PrintOpinion: The Skins should lose the rest of their games for a higher draft pick. Over our wonderful 6 game losing streak I started to wonder this myself. But then something wonderful happened; we won. It felt so good to win today that I am offically on the "I don't care what our draft number is we need to win as many games as we can" bandwagon. None of us know where we will draft, who we will draft, and what will happen in FA.
We need to live in this moment and cheer for our team. I was shocked today that there were supposed Skins "fans" that were actually bummed when we took the lead and won. Are you fucking kidding me? If you don't like it go root for another team. I recommend the Cowgirls. They are a bunch of bitches anyways. At least stay off the boards until we start winning. Come back when we make the playoffs in two years.
Opinion: We need to bring in Peyton Manning. No we don't. We need a young core to develop together. We have some good young pieces and Manning is not the leader for this team. He doesn't want to mentor a whole team. This is one of the worst ideas I've heard on HH. Simply put, NO. We have done the over-the-hill veteran before and it has led to disaster.Opinion: We need to trade the farm for Luck No we shouldn't. For how good he is Luck is still no guarantee. If this season has shown us anything it's that we need more help along the Oline and depth at just about every other position. I want a franchise QB so bad that I can taste it, but we need to do it right. If we get one of the top QBs then pull the trigger. Hope it's Barkley or RGIII. But don't trade the farm. Try not to trade up at all. Let's see where we are at the end of the season and after a couple months of FA before we go crazy.
Opinion: Shanny needs to go. Please dear Lord no. We have had the coaching carousel for years, we need stability. This team has a direction and we need to stay the course. I propose that if at the end of the 2012 season we have not improved significantly then we burn his ass to the ground. Until then everyone screaming for his head should shut up. All of the pundits say it takes 3-4 years to implement a system and get the players for it. One of the major problems with our owner is he has had a kneejerk reaction to a bad season. Let's get past this mentality.
The players have shown over the past couple of weeks that they haven't given up on our coaches. Neither should we. When the locker room goes we should go.
Opinion: Play the young guys. Yes we should. We now know that P-Rile, Helu, Hank, Gomes, Paulsen, Young, Nield, and Hurt among others can be good for us in the future. We need to see Royster, Willie Smith, Thompson, more Paul, and Austin among others to see if they have what it takes. Let's see if we can catch a little magic and ride these youngins to the promised land.
Opinion: Cut Stabby Banks and get rid of Jamal Brown in the offseason.. I still stand by these statements and believe Banks doesn't do enough to warrant his spot. Brown is just awful.
Well these are the ones that come to mind at the moment. Feel free to post any that you think of in the comments section. That is all. HTTR.
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+10000000
Well said Shaggin. To quote Herm Edwards “You play to win the game!”
I am 42 years old and went to my first NFL game today. I have not missed more than a handful of Skins games on TV in the last 30 plus years. This victory showed a lot about this team. They did not give up, they fought hard and they had what it took to beat a team that was also playing for pride in their house.
For those of you that that suggest that it is a good thing to tank games please see Ken’s 10 yards to make a point post this week. Winning begets winning. This team has accepted mediocrity for so long that the allure of a high draft pick is becoming the holy fucking Grail.
It is way more important to change the attitude which is happening than to draft shoot for a draft pick that is historically successful 50 % of the time.
A gutty performance like this is what we needed. Hail to the Redskins. Boy the Kool Aid tasted great today. Also great to see an opponents fans leave the stadium with their with 2 minutes left.
by WestCoastHokie on Nov 28, 2011 1:53 AM EST via mobile reply actions
facts are like apostrophes
No one seems to know how to use them, yet they keep posting anyway.
The “atmosphere of success” is a compelling narrative, but it isn’t actually a real thing. A great quarterback is a real thing. For examples, look no further than the winningest franchises in the NFL since 2000. If any team should have an atmosphere of success, it’s the team that has won more games in the last ten years than any other- the Colts. How many games is the atmosphere of success worth now without their star quarterback? Second on the list is the Patriots, whose culture of winning wasn’t not enough to get them to playoffs without Tom Brady in 2008. Next on the list is none other than the 3-7 Philadelphia Eagles, who have been only as good as Michael Vick since they parted ways with McNabb.
by sofutomygaha on Nov 28, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
A great quarterback is a real thing...true.
Unfortunately, your hypothetical great quarterback made up of some amalgamation of Peyton, Brady, and McNabb (?) that we would be drafting at an unknown spot without knowing who will declare for the draft and without foreknowledge of the future is not a real thing.
Irony (n.) -Michael Westbrook as the hero on Bully Beatdown.
by Jim America on Nov 28, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
Shaggin has got it figured out!
Excellent, Recommended!: I would add Shanny has made mistakes and is not the superior coach some had hoped but he is an NFL level head coach who needs players for his system, as he does not adjust to players (ie Gibbs, Fox,etc) as other coaches. But the Redskins are becoming a team with an identity so the last thing that needs to happen is a new head coach, once the players are in place the head coach will not lead this team the team will lead it…
I'm glad for the guys we won
you saw no let-up, EVER this season from this team, and i love that. You may figure, with the way we were playing, that there would be some tension betweeen the offense and defense, but I saw none of that. Everyone stood behind everyone.
I do feel that a trade-up for Luck has to be explored. If it’s too much to do, than so be it, but we owe it to our team to at least look into it. I won’t be pissed if they move up to #1, for something that is somewhat reasonable(no 3 firsts though). I’m fine with 1st’s this and next year, with a 2nd, 3rd and 4th sprinkled in, or 1st’s this and next, and a player. Anyways, a QB needs to be drafted, and a good one at that, so we need to do whatever it takes to make that happen. If we win out, and are picking in the middle of the draft, there is still no setteling for a 2nd tier guy; a trade up will be in order.
As for the yound guys, that is what has kept me going this season. it was great to see Helu have the game he did, against a very good rush defense. I also thought our line(yes, even Brown), did a good job yesterday. It’s amazing to watch TW get to the 2nd level on run plays; he’s just so damn fast. Hurt struggled, but he showed promise, and I like his toughness.
Crying Lion
I'd trade up for Barkley if. we ended up 7-9
Dear Passionate fan, I know you are passionate, but please reply with a logical answer or I will ignore you.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Nov 28, 2011 9:26 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Agree on all counts....also have to agree with Tiller's addendum concerning moving up for Luck.
Wow, that first one is the hot button issue lately, huh?
I can’t even fathom wanting the Washington Redskins to lose a game, ever. My earliest Redskins memory happened 40 years ago (I was 2, as someone else here said perfectly, I remember the event….The Skins brought great joy into our home)
I don’t even think about the draft during the season
"Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say."-Robert Hunter
didn't mean to post that, it's incomplete...
a couple of other things came to mind and a fan post would probably be more appropriate, meant to delete, not post.
"Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say."-Robert Hunter
Trading up for Luck would be the dumbest thing the franchise has done in years
I agree we should look into it. Nothing wrong with due diligence but unless the Colts will swap #1s and a 7th the cost is too much. We have so many holes that even if Luck turns out to be as solid as say Matt Ryan the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. Luck being Matt Ryan is statistically improbable and to pretend he will be Manning or Brady and then make decisions based on that assumption is something Vinnie would advocate.
When Gaffney drops the ball I blame Kyle. When Jammal Brown doesn't block I blame Kyle. When Barnes dives out a guys ankles and misses I blame Kyle.
None of us know where we will draft, who we will draft, and what will happen in FA.
This is not an argument. “We have a high probability of a stronger draft if we lose out” is an argument. Hate it because you hate to lose- that’s cool and I think any of the nose-divers respects it. Don’t try to sell it as though the draft is the same mystery box one way or the other. It isn’t. You can’t have it both ways.
side note- if we lock in homefield advantage for the playoffs again some day, you better log on here and start calling people pussies who want to rest our starters in week 17.
Manning is not the leader for this team. He doesn’t want to mentor a whole team. This is one of the worst ideas I’ve heard on HH. Simply put, NO. We have done the over-the-hill veteran before and it has led to disaster.
I didn’t think Mark Brunell and Brad Johnson were disasters. Last I knew, Manning was in the running for the title of Greatest Leader in the History of the NFL. If we don’t get a good QB in the draft and we need a bridge, and Manning is healthy, of course, how could you possibly do better? I’m surprised that you, a person who is emphatically dedicated to winning now, would rather start a low-pedigree rook next year instead of a man who just last year demonstrated that he could put a terrible team on his back and make it to the playoffs.
I want a franchise QB… but we need to do it right. If we get one of the top QBs then pull the trigger. Hope it’s Barkley or RGIII. But don’t trade the farm.
Practically everyone on this board wants exactly the same thing. The difference is that most people have realized that there is more to the conversation, such as what happens in the increasingly probable situation that we are stuck at the 10th pick deciding between overdrafting a QB NOT named Griffin, Barkley, Jones, or Luck or taking a superstar cornerback that we can really do without… but sure, since you said so we should try to draft a good quarterback and get max value for our picks. Also, hey, there’s free agency… just as long as we don’t sign anyone old or with injury issues. It’ll really turn this team around in 2012 when we drop Kyle Grossman and Matt Beck in order to sign Rex Orton and John Flynn.
Not sure where you are going with this
None of us know where we will draft. So if I told you last year we would be picking at 10 and Gabbert was on the board what do you think we would do. Do you think we will A. Draft Gabbert, B. Take the best available player overall, or C. Trade down to 16 and draft Ryan Kerrigan. Can you honestly say that you knew we would choose C? I call bullshit.
The arguement I made is based on people on the board making the assumption we will draft a QB if we pick at #4. If you make assumptions it makes an ass out of you and umption. Maybe the first day of FA Shanny goes and signs Flynn and drafts Blackmon at 4 or he trades down to get more picks. People that want us to lose aren’t wanting us to lose for at top CB prospect. They believe we will draft a QB. I say why root for your team to lose when you have no idea what we will do.
Side note- Next time we lock up homefield advantage and sit our starters for week 17 do you really believe after the past 20 years that anyone would be upset? Some might be if we are 15-0 but I will just be stoked that we are 15-0. Come on, man.
Brunell and Johnson aren’t in the same stratosphere as Manning. I can’t believe that anyone would say if two mediocre QBs did it then so will Manning. I will see your Brunell and Johnson and raise you Brett Farve. Manning is closer to Farve than your boys and everyone knows Farve did not do the mentoring thing at all. Look what putting a terrible team on his back did to him last year. He’s sitting out this year from carrying all that dead weight.
To your last point I say this. I never said don’t trade up a couple of spots to get a killer QB, I said don’t trade the farm. If we give up a couple of picks to move up so be it, but if we trade this years draft, next years draft, and most of the next year after that then I say hell no. It’s also kind of funny that you talk smack about signing a FA QB right after you say sign Manning. Do you see the problem here?
So to sum up what you believe: You think we should lose out because you know we will draft a QB. Congrats you are the only person on the planet that knows the final draft order and who every team is going to pick. You think Manning is the perfect fit for this team even though he is 36 and wants one more ring (at least) before he retires. We are 2-3 years away from contending so he will be 39 then. If he survives until then he will need help lifting the Lombardi just like I help my grandpa lift things around his house. You also are advocating that if we don’t lose out that we should trade the next 2-3 years of picks to get a QB that we will not be able to put any other pieces around. Last but not least you say no to a young up-and-coming QB like Flynn or a good stop gap like Orton for a old broken down model. I like where your head’s at.
Cut Brandon "Stabby" Banks. That is all.
by 64ShagginWagon on Nov 28, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Shaggin, you wrote a post here saying emphatically that people with these opinions are wrong.
- I don’t understand what you’re trying to say about last year’s draft. There is a difference between knowing the future and having an opinion about how to strategize for it now. No one knows how the check mate is going to come in a game of chess, but that doesn’t stop you from trying to get in the best position early.
- There is a LOT of hate going around for people who want to tank for a better draft pick. Again, I don’t understand. We are not going to the playoffs. Preseason games are for auditioning players, week 17 games are for getting healthy… in both cases I root for my team but I don’t take offense to personnel decisions or game plans that don’t give us the best chance to win. Why is it a sin to be pragmatic about garbage games in a lost season? Why are these garbage games holy for you but a throwaway week 17 game would not be?
- What does my analogy with BJ and Brunell have to do with Brett Favre? You said that before that old veterans have been a disaster for us. I just pointed out that that hasn’t always been true. As far as I know, Favre is a great qb who was extremely durable to an old age. If Manning turns out like Favre, some team has 2-3 years of winning ahead of them.
- Your construction of my “plan” is ridiculous. I am making the argument that Manning could be a good option… you know… because you can’t predict the future, eh? You say “perfect fit” but my words were “If we don’t get a good QB in the draft and we need a bridge, and Manning is healthy.” If that were to happen, we would be a wild card contender next year. Again, I would think you’d be pleased with the idea. To be clear with you, I have defended all of these perfectly valid opinions that you are trying to put a stop to. It is extremely likely that we will draft a QB. If we do so, the trade up is an option if our pick is low. If not, Manning may be an option.
by sofutomygaha on Nov 28, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
I don't want the team that I support to quit, give up or in anyway intentionally lose
There is a LOT of hate going around for people who want to tank for a better draft pick.
I can’t understand how any fan would be in favor of the team not playing hard so that they will lose to gain a better draft position. It would undermine the entire structure of the NFL, it makes it harder to sign quality FAs & harder to re-sign the few good players on a team. The only thing that you get from losing is more losing. If we are going to go after a top tier prospect in next years draft then we will have to pay the price to move up if we are picking in the middle, not try & cheat the system by intentionally losing games
What you fail to realize is that
if you don’t play to win, nobody on your team is getting game-time experience. It’s beyond useless. Why would you hurt the development of people already on your team to get a guy you are not sure is even going to declare for next year’s draft (Both Luck and Barkley have another year if they choose to do so).
And Griffin
Irony (n.) -Michael Westbrook as the hero on Bully Beatdown.
maybe we need to start making a bigger distinction between playing to win and coaching to win
I am in no way defending players who dog it on the field.
I’m talking about getting reps for developing players so can build for tomorrow even though there are other, lower-upside players who are more likely to succeed today. That’s why I keep making the comparison to preseason. It is not useless.
by sofutomygaha on Nov 29, 2011 9:41 AM EST up reply actions
Mr. Umption is beyond repute. Goog day, sir.
I said good day!
Irony (n.) -Michael Westbrook as the hero on Bully Beatdown.
I love reply fails.
Irony (n.) -Michael Westbrook as the hero on Bully Beatdown.
by Jim America on Nov 28, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
And Tom Gugliotta.
Irony (n.) -Michael Westbrook as the hero on Bully Beatdown.
by Jim America on Nov 28, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
GOOOOOOOOOOOOGS!!!!!!!!!
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
Don't yell that to loud or Googs might have a siezure
Shut up DHall.
by 64ShagginWagon on Nov 28, 2011 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
He's no Gheorghe Mureşan!!!
That’s right bitches….I even looked up the right spelling!!!
At least "WE ARE" not Penn State!!!
Good post 64.....rec'd.....
I agree on pretty much all your points. The greatest point of this entire thing is losing leads to losing. There are still things to be gained from losing (ie: drive, determination, etc….not a draft pick slot) but we have done enough losing around here that we should have all those bases covered and then some.
At least "WE ARE" not Penn State!!!
good post and I mostly agree
but giving up a little in a trade for a QB would be worth it IMO.
I'm fine with a little trade
Just depends on what we have to give up and who we get.
Shut up DHall.
by 64ShagginWagon on Nov 29, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
Pretty much agree on all
"By far the worst performers on the (Redskins) are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
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