2012 Top 10 Mock Draft
by Tiller56 on Nov 25, 2011 11:22 AM EST
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I wanted to take a look at how the top 10 may shake out in the 2012 draft. I kept the first scenerio without trades, but in the second I mocked a trade for the #1 overall spot.
I do believe the Colts are going to trade that top pick, but I'm not sure which team will take the jump up. I think the Dolphins, Redskins, Broncos and Chiefs are all teams who could make the move, but I feel the Colts will also put too much value on that pick, thus scaring some teams away. If the Colts are smart(which I believe they are), they can fall back 3-4 spots, and still get a nice package from a QB desperate team.
Colts- Andrew Luck QB Stanford - As much as I hate to say it, if no trade is worked out(which would be stupid on the Colts part not to work one out), they will sit at #1 and take the best QB prospect since Peyton Manning. The dynasty will continue all over again, and all it will have cost them is one year in the basement. Unreal!
Vikings - Matt Kalil OT USC - This is a vey easy pick for the Vikings. They need to protect Christian Ponder if they want to have any success in the future. Ponder already has the best RB in the NFL, and he has some weapons at WR as well. Once this line gets wipped into shape, the pieces will be in place for a title run.
Rams - Justin Blackmon WR Ok. St - Another very easy pick for the Rams. Bradford needs weapons at WR, and there is none better in the draft than Blackmon.
Redskins - Matt Barkley QB USC - The chips fall perfectly for the Redskins, who have their pick between Jones and Barkley. Barkley has lit it up this season, and has taken the next step as a QB, and a leader. He's an excellent pick to run this offense.
Panthers - Morris Claiborne CB LSU - Claiborne is not a blazer, but his cover skills are off the charts, and he compares favoribly to the Jets Revis. He will be an immediate starter in Carolina.
Jags - Alshon Jeffery WR SCAR - The Jags need weapons for Gabbert. They would have loved to get their hands on Blackmon, but they settle for the next best WR, who is a matchup nightmare. The combination of Jeffery and TE Lewis should keep defensive coordinators up late at night.
Dolphins - Landry Jones QB Oklahoma - The Dolphins stay put and get their guy.
Cardinals - Jonathan Martin OT Stanford - Who ever the QB is in Arizona, is going to need better protection if they hope to return to the playoffs anytime soon. Martin is an athletic OT, who protected the blind side of the nations top QB for 3 years.
Chiefs - Dre Kirkpatrick CB Alabama - The Chiefs secondary took a huge loss in 2011 when Eric Berry went down. The safety should return healthy in 2012, and adding Kirkpatrick to the secondary should bolster the unit as a whole.
Browns - Trent Richardson RB Alabama - The Browns need weapons on offense, and Richardson is just that. He has power, speed and durability, and will provide a boost to a pedestrian RB corps.
Alternative top 10(with trades):
Colts(Trade - With Redskins) - Redskins Andrew Luck QB Stanford - Mike Shanahan saw his guy, and did what it took to put him in Burgundy and Gold. The Redskins now have a centerpiece of their offense, and a leader and face of the franchise to build around for the next decade. All is well in D.C.
Vikings - Matt Kalil OT USC
Rams - Justin Blackmon WR Ok. St.
Colts(from Redskins) - Morris Clayborne CB LSU - The Colts aging defense couldn't stop anyone in 2011. Clayborne becomes an immediate impact player at a position of need. If need be, than can address the teams future at the QB position in 2013 with one of the two 1st round picks they will have.
Panthers - Quinton Coples DE N.C.
Jags - Alshon Jeffery WR SCAR
Dolphins - Landry Jones QB Oklahoma
Cardinals - Matt Barkley QB USC
Chiefs - Dre Kirkpatrick CB Alabama
Browns - Trent Richardson RB Alabama
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I'd argue Barkley is a better fit because of his decision making
He has great accuracy and has better footwork besides he’s already in a pro-style offense. He won’t have issues adjusting to taking reps under center. He makes better progression reads as well and can adjust under pressure. My problem with Landry Jones is his tendency to lock onto receivers at times and he cracks under pressure. Then again I was dead wrong about Can Newton…
Dear Passionate fan, I know you are passionate, but please reply with a logical answer or I will ignore you.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Nov 25, 2011 11:45 AM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
I'm also liking Barkley over Jones... and would be fine with RG3
So… I wouldn’t mind trading back… and taking whomever is left of Jones, Barkley or RG3!
by 1x1an on Nov 25, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That's a fine idea,
but I’d rather Shanny be so big on a single guy that he does whatever it takes to get him. Just imagine Andrew Luck a Washington Redskin.
by Andrew DeFrank on Nov 25, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I like how you implemented Nikes take over of NFL jerseys next year
Counting cards isn't illegal. It's frowned upon, like masturbating on an airplane.
you know you guys are weird...
you sit and bitch all day about Oline, Oline, Oline….and sumbody throws a trade scenario up w/ us picking Luck and you jump on his ballz???
Luck’s nice, but i’ll stick w/ RG3 and all of my draft picks.
Barkley’s noodle arm doesn’t make up for his other upsides unless he’s drafted later in the 1st round…
and what happens in 2013 when we don’t have a 1st rounder and we still have holes? or do we win it all with Luck as a rookie? FOH
Really against an above average overrated FSU team?
Dear Passionate fan, I know you are passionate, but please reply with a logical answer or I will ignore you.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Nov 25, 2011 4:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
They are a top 10 defensive team in the country
and were playing that game at home, early in the season. Come on. You and I both know that is a talented defense, and a tough place to play an away game. Jones was nothing short of spect. on that game winning drive.
Crying Lion
I will admit that, but it's really 50/50 with him
I honestly don’t know if he is or isn’t a great fit for Kyle’s offense only Kyle does, but it seems as though Barkley is better value and a better overall fit for the offense to me.
Dear Passionate fan, I know you are passionate, but please reply with a logical answer or I will ignore you.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Nov 25, 2011 4:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Why is it 50/50?
I’ve watched this kid for the last 2 1/2 years, and I’ve seen a kid mature, and become a leader. Combine that with his ability, and you have the makings for a superstar. No major injury problems, no character issues. no arm strenght or accuracy concerns. Excellent in looking off coverages, and going through progressions. I just don’t see a lot of flaws in his game. He has no problems taking snaps from under center either. It’s not his fault they run mostly shotgun. Also, and I can promise you it’s 100% true, he’s a uch better athlete than he’sgiven credit for, and he throws very well on the move.
Crying Lion
shouldnt any top qb be able to master any system?
the guy so talented we think he is worth a top5 pick should be able to play for any team in the league. Personally I am wary of “system” guys
Nothing overrated about it
Just more Maryland sour graps
Really? so you're saying you're still a top 5 team?
And yes our Football team is terrible.
Dear Passionate fan, I know you are passionate, but please reply with a logical answer or I will ignore you.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Nov 25, 2011 9:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Top five at the time we played OK? Absolutely.
If EJ Manuel doesn’t hurt his shoulder, we win that game. Our twig of a freshman backup QB almost pulled it off. Top ten defense nationally.
I'm a Panther fan
and only homers got Cam “right.” He went from week 4 preseason WTF? to week 1 season WTF!?
Love it, but...
Although this is my first official post, I’ve been following HH for the past year, so I definitely can appreciate the opinions of guys like yourself, Parks, Steve, & Kevin. Anyway, I don’t think anyone on here would mind getting Luck, but you have to at least put some parameters on what the Skins would be giving up to get the #1 before we could assess whether this is good vs great trade. The Skins aren’t in a position to surrender the whole farm for just one player even if it’s the next coming of John Elway. So, would like to know how many picks this year and next you think we’d have to give up to get Luck?
It depends a lot on what exactly we give up for Luck!
If we put Luck behind this OL… he’ll get hurt within the first 3 weeks… and it will be a disaster!
We need to revamp the whole Oline… before we put our new “franchise QB” behind it!
no, my bad
I advocated 3 big FA signings: Carl Nick(OG), Bowe(WR), and Stanton(QB), and I also used 3 of the top 5 picks in my mock draft to get linemen: Adcock RT(in the 2nd), and Jones C(in the 3rd).
Crying Lion
If we get RT Adcock and C Jones... I'd be flipping out happy!
Carl Nicks would be awesome inside… but… Saints would be crazy to let him walk! So availability might be a problem!
Don't forget
Saints made Evans the highest paid G last year, and also have Brees, Colston and Meachum as FA this year. They have invested a lot of money in linemen, and just might not be able to afford the 2 highest paid G’s and one of the higest paid T’s in the league, all while trying to keep their superstar QB.
I too like Adcock(he’s a true RT). Steveo would rather Adams, whom I believe to be very overrated. I love Ben Jones, and would even consider him in the 2nd if we could trade back there(I believe he’s that good).
Crying Lion
I too think C Jones is a 2nd rd prospect... but... we will have an early 3rd rd pick (so he might be there)
Adcock’s advantage is that (like you say) his natural position is RT, and he will be there in the 2nd!
You are right about the Saints’ salary cap… it could work to our advantage (let’s go shopping).
Actually
could you imagine landing both those guy…………..Steveo wouldn’t be able to say another word about linemen for at least 5 years.
Crying Lion
if you land Grubbs and NIcks, and draft Jones and Adcock, then go nuts with Barkley or Jones b/c he'll never get touched!
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Somebody please tell me this is financially impossible...
or I’ll be dreaming about it for 5 months.
"Dominant" is an adjective.
"Dominate" is a verb.
We'll work on "Dominance" once we get the first two figured out.
by Reedskin on Nov 28, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
would we be able to have those 2nd and 3rd round picks though if we traded for luck
Counting cards isn't illegal. It's frowned upon, like masturbating on an airplane.
I have a slight problem with this.
Saying that if we put a rookie QB behind this Oline he would get hurt. I know we don’t have a great Oline, but when one of our QB’s last go down injured because of the Oline? Grossman was benched, as was Beck. McNabb was benched for Rex, not out due to injury.
Follow me on Twitter: @UkRedskin1 feel free to give suggestions on what you'd like to see broken down each week.
just a saying... wasn't meant to be taken literally
point being… we need to upgrade the Oline… and… upgrade the QB poisition (not just one, but both)!
Oh definitely,
there’s no denying that. It wasn’t intended to be a jab at you in particular. I’ve heard this argument thrown about a lot, but there is nothing to suggest that a rookie QB would be any more likely to get hurt than Rex or Beck. If anything, a guy like Luck, who is a lot more mobile than Rex, would be able to avoid more sacks from his mobility, quicker release and better decision making.
Follow me on Twitter: @UkRedskin1 feel free to give suggestions on what you'd like to see broken down each week.
Landry Lones
Isnt Jones a junior this yr?Are you talking about him coming out after this yr?Ive watched him for the last 2yrs,yes he is a great QB,but then and nothing taking away from him,look at the Oline he has in front of himThat line has been together since they were freshmen.A oline makes a great QB and thats what we need at DC.there is some good Oline players in this yrs draft.I agree,we need a QB,but build up that oline.We use to be called the hogs,because we hoged the line of scrimage,dont you think its time we got back to that,GO SKINS!!!
by Roy m Tillman on Nov 26, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
The oklahoma line is OK
but it is no where near what it was in the Sam Bradford days. They might have the 4th best line in the big 12, behind, Texas AM, Oklahoma St and Texas.
Crying Lion
+1
Redskin internet memes sure are slow to update. It’s been 2 years since our OL was atrocious. We’re merely ~average nowadays depending on health.
we aren't even average now
even if Licht was healthy
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Nov 26, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
um
we’re 25th in the league in both run and pass blocking. That is atrocious. To be the 7th worst OL in the league is well below average.
Agree with Terp Skin Fan
There are other franchise QB’s as stated in this post and we still have other holes to fill. Our offensive line is still a mess. They were average at best in pass protection before all the injuries and the run game is horrendous. This year more than any other year has shown that we need quality depth in addition to filling starting roles. I say stay put at our pick and grab Barkley, then use the other picks to beef up the OL and add depth.
by A Connecticut Redskin on Nov 25, 2011 12:13 PM EST reply actions
A conn reskin fan
You are so right.Lets get some beef in that line and on our bench too,so when we have a starter go down,we can plug in a quality sub.Grab barkley,oh yes.
by Roy m Tillman on Nov 26, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
I'd rather have Barkely over Jones, but still I like this mock.
My god how great would it be to trade for Luck? I don’t think I’d stop listening to MNF theme songs till September. Buy my jersey that night, trade for some picks down the road… oh my god.
Barkley>>>>>>>>>>>>Jones
But like others have said, we need a new o-line really badly
by Fresh92 on Nov 25, 2011 2:15 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I have come around to Barkley, as you all know
so i would not be opposed to either him or Jones. I still fell Jones is a notch above, and that will all come out in combine/pro day. But again, I like both, and the position we are in.
Crying Lion
Jones vs barkley
Take both,caint go wrong.
by Roy m Tillman on Nov 26, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Uh, did the trade between the Redskins and Colts somehow wipe out Carolina's pick?
‘cuz they aren’t picking in your second scenario, and yet their pick could change everybody else behind them.
No Danny, Nooooooo - Tom Landry, 1982., and Washington Redskins fans, 1999-
Right now, Landry Jones is 4th on my QB board.
If we’re given the choice to take Barkley or RG3 over him, I’d take either over him right now. I just don’t see anything from him right now that makes me think he’ll be spectacular. Not to say he’ll be a bad QB, and if we were having an 8-8 season drafting around 15-20 area, I’d be happy to take him there on potential. But for me, Luck has it all, Barkley is ready to go, Griffin just has that ‘it’ factor. I still maintain that I think Jones should go back to college and develop one more year in college.
Follow me on Twitter: @UkRedskin1 feel free to give suggestions on what you'd like to see broken down each week.
by UkRedskin on Nov 25, 2011 5:22 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
great way of putting it...
Of course Luck is #1… Barkley seems ready to start immediately #2… RG3 has something about him that screams “greatness” #3… Jones is just a good QB, nothing spectacular, but good #4
Any one of them would be an upgrade to what we have!
Jones
Im a OU fan,have been watching Jones,at this time,he tends to be streaky.cold one game,then hot as hell in the next,hes a good QB,but I think he needs another yr under his belt.Then,look to the draft or who knows what will happen in 2012.Case i point,demarko murray,for the cowboys,he played all 4yrs at OU,in his rookie season,he is playing like a pro.the same could happen for Jones too.
by Roy m Tillman on Nov 26, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
No one cares or pays any attention to a 2012 mock draft when it's still 2011 and both collage and pro games are still being played
Kind of reminds me of how black Friday has turned in black Thursday night…
He could easily end up the 2nd qb taken
he really needs to come out!
He'll be picked apart at the combine, pro days, etc
He still would be a high prospect but he’s certainly not a Top 10 prospect, in my opinion.
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
seahawks is key to us getting the 2nd pick
they need to beat us then lose out.and the rams need to beat the cards this weekor we are in trouble. i can see the panthers winning 1 game against tampa that wil make them 3-13 but a win against us. and when the vikes beat us that will make them 3-13 this week is gonna be huge factor for the top 5 picks in the draft. if we lose out ied say we have a 80% chance to pick 3rd. if the rams win this week. ied say we have a 90% chance to pick second.not worried about the cards taking our spot because their last 3 games are cle,cin,and sea with 2 of those home games.
And lets not forget the Browns.
McCoy looks to be on his way out.
by Andrew DeFrank on Nov 26, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
I hate when people say Shanny was dumb not to draft this year.
NOBODY expected Ponder and Locker to go that high! This was a terrible class everyone agreed.
by Andrew DeFrank on Nov 26, 2011 10:43 AM EST reply actions
The 2011 draft for QBs was one of the best all time
Don’t believe everything you read on Hogs Haven. Look at how many quality starters are already playing in the NFL & add Locker, Mallet & Kaepernick to Newton, Ponder, Dalton & Gabbert & you have one of the best QB classes all time. This year has some extremely talented prospects but IMO is not quite as good as last years. People are starting to think that very good QBs come out every year but actually having two years in a row with as many NFL quality QBs is extremely rare (unprecedented) & I hope that we finally take advantage & draft an elite, franchise QB.
In retrospect sure
but before the draft, and DURING it was…
-Newtons a punk.
-Ponder doesn’t deserve 12
-Jake Locker? At 8?
-Gabbert is the best of the bunch
-Dalton needs to sit
To think anybody predicted the draft picks futures correctly is just wrong!
Who woulda thought Dalton would be lighting it up with Newton? Or that Gabbert would be struggling while Locker gets to sit and learn? Conventional wisdom was just wrong on the 2011 draft.
by Andrew DeFrank on Nov 27, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
Shanny doesnt get paid $7mill/yr to rely on conventional wisdom tho
The Panthers GM sure didnt care what conventional wisdom was about Newton afterall
maybe if he had though we wouldn't be in the position we are in
b/c conventional wisdom would have said we shouldn’t have traded for Donovan McNabb or change both an offensive and defensive philosophy without having the personnel to do it.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
it set us back far more than a year
and there were plenty of other moves that went against conventional wisdom.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
You aren't showing the specifics, but I agree with you particularly on defense. On offense ZBS
may not be the best scheme for the NFL today either.
by Jefferson1935 on Nov 27, 2011 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
the McNabb trade alone set us back more than a year
those are two high picks that could be shoring up two needs right now. And the whole lack of personnel thing for the 3-4 it’s evident that it set us back as well. 1. we didn’t trade Haynesworth, Carter, McIntosh etc. when they still had trade value. 2. we didn’t bring in any long term pieces (Carriker being the closest thing).
Had we added a piece or two that year, look at where our defense would be now?
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
How exactly do you transition from a 4-3 to a 3-4?
Do you draft 3-4 guys and leave them in a 4-3 until you are ready to make the shift? I believe conventional wisdom says you make the shift and adjust as need be instead of waiting. GB, Houston, Denver all mad defensive transitions that coincided with coaching changes. There is no waiting. Shanahan/Haslet did the only thing he could and should have done. If Haynesworth would have played the NT position as he should have for $21M, then things would have been better.
Redskins @Robert Griffin III - 2012
No what you do is you bring in 3-4 personnel
the Redskins failed to do that, and tried to switch without addressing the needs.
You can’t make that move without the personnel and the teams you listed knew that and prioritized that. The Packers used a pair of 1st rounders on B.J. Raji and Clay Matthews. Houston kept drafting defense this past year to find guys who fit in with the new system, and that is what Denver did as well. The Redskins by contrast used one draft pick on defense (Riley) and he was a 4-3 linebacker moving inside, so he needed some developmental time.
As for Haynesworth, look he was an ass, but he was also right, he shouldn’t have been a primary NT, he should have been a primary DE (he could play NT on some passing downs). He was the best penetrating DT in league and they decided to put him in a position where he couldn’t take advantage of that. Why they wouldn’t want to put him in a strong position is beyond me.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
If Greg Williams would have become the head coach, the Skins defensive scheme would have
a hybrid scheme like the Saints and would have needed minor roster revisions. It is easier to fill the roster of a base 4-3 team given the college game in general.
by Jefferson1935 on Nov 27, 2011 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
Conditioning coach
This bugabo that the skins have with injuries comes from conditioning,I think they need to address this in the off season as well as getting some oline help,not only in the backups as well as the starters.A QB is a must! weither its Luck,or jones if he decides to come out at the end of this season,you still need a oline to give the QB time to read the defense and make the right calls and do the corect reads.Time to get back to basics skins,HOG THE LINE OF SCRIMAGE,we were once called the hogs,REMEMBER.
They have one of the best strength an conditioning coaches.
As far as injuries, you can’t predict them, they happen to every team randomly, and there was a shortened off-season which is why you see SOOO many players with ruptured/sprained achillies and the ACL/MCL tears (you cut too fast like you are used to doing, but you haven’t trained properly to do so…..pop).
Redskins @Robert Griffin III - 2012
No Way!
I will become physically ill if the redskins take Landry over Barkley. I wouldn’t take Landry until the late first round. Barkley and Luck are the only quarterbacks worthy of top ten consideration. I have come to really appreciate Barkley’s game and think he would be a perfect fit for the skins. I pray they can hold steady, keep other picks and take Barkley. If Barkley is available and they use the pick on Jones, it will be just like selecting Heath Schuler all over again! We all know how far that pick set us back!
After wittnessing what Barkley did yet again last night against UCLA
I changed my pick. I’m officially on the Barkley Bandwagon, however, if we drafted Jones, I would not be upset.
Crying Lion
Welcome aboard!
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
I've heard from a couple. of scouts
That if not for Luck hed be the best prospect in the last decade. The difference is Luck is the best prospect of the last 20 years.
Dear Passionate fan, I know you are passionate, but please reply with a logical answer or I will ignore you.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Nov 27, 2011 2:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
wow i haven't heard that at all
and it sure isn’t evident by his play on the field
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Nov 27, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
and that makes him better than Palmer, Eli, Rivers, Carr, Bradford, Stafford, Young etc.
when they were coming out??
Barkley is def. developing into a good QB prospect, but right now he doesn’t project to be an elite guy (very good yes, great not so much) so I don’t think he’s the 2nd best QB prospect in the last decade.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
One thing
People need to understand (and I’m not really talking about you), is that we don’t necessarily need an “elite” quarterback. And, furthermore, it is OK to spend a high draft pick on just a “good” QB prospect. Hell, the Giants traded up to number one to get one of those.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
oh i agree we don't need an elite QB
and I wouldn’t mind taking one, but my point are there are other avenues to take. And the problem with taking a Barkley (whom we are now likely out of the running for), Griffin or Jones is that they won’t be ready to start next Sept. and when they do come in be it week 1, 5, 15 or 2013 they won’t ‘make the offense better’. Even the best quarterbacks in the league needed a couple years to get at that level (with a few exceptions).
My problem is everyone wants a rookie and wants him to start just so we don’t have to see Grossman, but the fact of the matter is we need to bring in someone to be above Rexy next year regardless.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Nov 27, 2011 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
How many of the current QB's are better than Rex coming out of college or Rex now?
No one expected Dalton, Newton, Stafford to be a Day #1 starter, but they were because they beat out the player in front of them on the depth chart. Jones, Luck, and Barkley, RGIIII (?) would be able to beat out Rex. And at least 3 of the 4 should be able to beat out Flynn.
Redskins @Robert Griffin III - 2012
why is Rex even in the conversation??
Look around the league 3/4ths of the backups are better than Rex and Beck.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Panthers had the worst offense in the NFL last season
now they are ranked 5th. Took Cam Newton exactly his first game to make the team’s offense better. All a rookie qb has to do to make his team better is to be better than the guy he’s replacing. That’s it. Doesnt take a year of holding a clip board and watching film to do that when you are replacing the likes of John Beck and Rex Grossman
the sad thing is their offense is more talented than ours
and before you try to say otherwise please find a single player on the Redskins that would start above: Jordan Gross, Ryan Kalil, DeAngelo Williams, Jonathan Stewart and Steve Smith?
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
that is not the question
the issue is can a rookie qb make a team better and the answer is obviously yes
So you'll rather
Have Grossman start for us again next year, because that would make our offense that much better? At least with a rookie, you know you’re working towards something. Say we start Rex again next year (ugh), and improve in other areas. So now we’re maybe an 8 win team, with no answer at quarterback. Picking even lower down the draft, in a draft probably not as deep at the position.
I don’t expect anyone to turn our offense around next year. And I don’t expect some rookie to come in and play even as good as Newton. I just think this is the time to solidify that spot for years to come. Something we haven’t done in, oh I dunno, about 30 years. Maybe more?
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
I'll answer for Steveo
He doesn’t want to spend a high pick on a rookie QB, because he believes we can win with a great line, and average QB play(like we did in the 80’s). So, he would rather see us accumulate more picks, and use them on making the o-line better, than for us to have a potentially great QB with just a good line.
It’s the old-school Hogs mentality that many on here have had for many years. They want a resurection of the ole’ Glory Days, and they believe we need the present day version of the Hogs to get back there.
Only prob with this mentality today is, you don’t even make it to the playoffs unless you have a good QB(Sanchez being the exception). All the other playoff calibur teams are led by good, to great QB’s. And, to make things moe complicated, if you want to win a SB, you better damn well have a very good QB.
Lets just look at the last 8 super bowl champs. Rogers, Brees, Big Ben, E Manning, P Manning, Big Ben, Brady, Brady. Lets go deeper: Of the last 8 superbowl matchups, only 1 QB who played in the game was considered average(Grossman – and he lost). The game has changed drastically in the last 10 years(even more so over the last 5). It takes a good QB to hget to the big game, and a pretty damn good one to win it.
Crying Lion
What's funny is
The Hogs weren’t even made up of high picks, so how does hat logic play out? Other than Mark May, none were first rounders, and Grimm was the only other “high pick”, a third rounder.
I know that’s his line of thinking, I’ve heard the argument tons of times. But the 80’s are over, and that formula was rare even then. I’m all for assembling a new Hogs unit. But you don’t need to do it with 1st round picks. Hell, the good teams keep they’re O lines stocked because they pick LOWER in the draft, where the linemen usually go anyway.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
I know right(haha)
I can’t understand it either. It’s mind-boggling. That’s why I call him Uncle Rico.
Look, I’m alkl for improving the O-Line, but I also believe a lot of the deficiencies we see fall on the QB. Rex is terrible at making quick decisions, and he’s as immobile as they come, and gets a lot of balls batted at the LOS…………………….result – line looks much worse than it is.
Crying Lion
Yes yes and yep
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
yeah it looked so much better with Beck's mobility
or McNabb’s last year
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Uncle Rico,
If you had to draft a QB with our first round pick(no trading back), who would it be and why?
Crying Lion
Griffin
He has extremely high upside
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
OK
what if he stays in school, and teh big 3 are all in the draft?
Crying Lion
by Tiller56 on Nov 28, 2011 6:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Barkley if he's on the board
if not trade back. (unless the Redskins reel off like 2 or 3 more wins and are drafting in the teens).
And yes I’d still sit Barkley
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Nov 28, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
no,
I would just only draft them under certain circumstances. And I wouldn’t shut the door to any trade scenarios.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
The 49ers may be the best current example of a team that has put a lot of resources
into their OL. It took a few years for the 49ers to put their OL together. Then they needed to gel together as a unit. They were still drafting for OL depth in the 2010 draft. The 49ers still ended up with a very good defensive team.
by Jefferson1935 on Nov 28, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
So if Jeff Bostic, and Joe Jacoby didn't work out the Redskins just never would have drafted another offensive linemen?
We have maybe one long term solution on the offensive line, and basically zero depth. As long as that position is ignored the Redskins aren’t going anywhere.
And i really don’t understand the rest of your statement about the offensive line, b/c most winning teams highly prioritize the o-line.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
so Matt Barkley and Landry Jones are guaranteed to be above average?
Since so many 1st round quarterbacks are??
as for those SB QB’s check your stats, b/c when Eli went and Brady and Big Ben (first time) they were carried on their O-line, running game and defensive play.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
So is just about every backup in the league
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
I clearly said Grossman needs to be upgraded
regardless of whether we pick a QB in the top 5 or the 5th round Grossman needs to be upgraded. There are at least a half dozen better options out there next year and one should be a Redskin.
The only think you ‘work towards’ when playing a rookie quarterback is significantly increasing the chances of his failure.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
How I that my choice when you
Want the Sooner with the big arm and want to start him day one since that ‘always works’
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Is that Lazlo?
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
+1
I watch College Football every Saturday. I’m pretty damn observant. Like how Mike Adams sucked against a mediocre pass rush and looked slower than an old man. Ryan Tannehill has terrible decision making.
I mean Barkley’s biggest knock is Arm Strength as it’s only a notch above average. His precision is wonderful. Football IQ is through the roof and can dissect defenses like a surgeon. His decision making is really great and seems to know where his number one receiver is without locking onto him meaning he’s excellent at going through his progressions. I often see him mislead safeties to make decisively accurate throws, not to mention he’s great at those bootleg rollouts. He has exponentially grown since he was a freshman and the next level for him to succeed in is the NFL. He has no character issues and is a well-spoken kid with high values and his intangibles are through the roof (Great Work ethic). Finally, he is a natural leader especially when he’s orchestrating important drives and a Team Captain to boot. Last but not least, he shows outstanding composure in the Red Zone and has a knack to score TDs. But then again what do I know?
Dear Passionate fan, I know you are passionate, but please reply with a logical answer or I will ignore you.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Nov 28, 2011 1:41 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
but he's also rarely pressured and basically sets up behind the best oline in the nation
then has 3-4secs to find one of the best receivers in the nation who will bail him out if the throw is bad. I’m not saying at all he isnt a good player or that we shouldnt draft him, just that it’s hard to separate all the talent when watching USC and figure what’s what. EVERY trojan qb is considered a top pick afterall
Andrew Luck has the other top Offensive Line in the nation
Andrew Decastro? Jonathan Martin? Both First Rounders.
Dear Passionate fan, I know you are passionate, but please reply with a logical answer or I will ignore you.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Nov 28, 2011 10:28 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Martin is overrated
Luck makes him lookm a lot better than he really is. He’s not bad, but he’s not as good as Luck makes him look.
Crying Lion
well, I think Luck may be overhyped
Saying a player is the best prospect in 25yrs is a pretty damn bold statement, especially when the guy isnt even considered to have an elite arm
Haha
finally someone else who see’s the flaws in Tannehill and Adams(lol). Don’t try telling this to Steveo though. He still swears Adams is first round material, and is better than our current linemen. He also thinks Tannehill has “upside”…………well no shit, he can’t get much worse than he was this year. If that’s what is considered upside, I’ll gladly turn away.
Crying Lion
you realize that Tannehill's numbers compare favorably to Landry Jones when you consider style of offesne
but why try to use logic in a debate huh??
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Fail
You mean like your attacks on Tannehill which are based in absolute zero facts
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
I know you don't believe anything I say
but I have watched Tannehill this year, and I’m not impressed……..especially with his last couple games.
Crying Lion
yes two of his worst games have come in the last month, but overall he's had a really good year
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
yeah well most scouts would disagree with you
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Most Scouts say Ryan Tannehill sucks.
Dear Passionate fan, I know you are passionate, but please reply with a logical answer or I will ignore you.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Nov 28, 2011 6:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
He has temendous upside
He was a QB in HS, switched to WR by his coaches (where he also excelled) & then switched back to QB last year when the starting QB for A & M struggled. He has a 3.8 GPA majoring in Biology (not underwater basket weaving) is extremely athletic, mobile & intelligent. He is easily one of the best fits in this draft for both Mike & Kyles offensive schemes. Of course he has had some bad games & has struggled at times (as all college QBs do, even ones named Luck or Landry) but what has so many people so interested in him is his potential.
He's innacurate
has a below average arm, has trouble reading defenses, and has not progressed from his Junior to Senior year. His Completion % is down, his yards per attempt is down, and his TD to INT ratio is up. Aside from all that, the teams stinks, and they were a preseason top 10, with a great young O-Line, good WR’s and an excellent RB in Gray. Am I missing something?
Crying Lion
Haha...yes, just about everything
Are you talking about Landry or Tannehill because both would fit that description
How does Jones,
who has one of the best arms in all of college football, and who’s completion % is above 64% with a yards per attempt over 8.3 fit into this catagory.
Just curious.
Crying Lion
Comp. percentage is down
Comp.s are down
Att.s are down
Tds are down (way down)
Int.s are the same
He is also so immobile that his own coach pulls him at the goal line for a sub.
He's not immobile
and I would expect much more from you. This is something that a guy who doesn’t watch football would say. His attempts are down, fine, but with that, comes less completions, and also less TD’s. Also, as you said yourself, they pull him for Blake Bell by the goaline, so that also effects his TD’s. Bell is 6’5" 255, and has a body that can take a punishment; thats why he’s put into the game, not because Jones is immobile.
Look at comp %(nearly identicle, and look at YPA if you want the true story.
I know your just trying to get at me a little with your comments above. Sad, as I view you to be a smart football guy.
Crying Lion
I always enjoy our back & forth
but if you are going to dish it out
has a below average arm, has trouble reading defenses, and has not progressed from his Junior to Senior year. His Completion % is down, his yards per attempt is down, and his TD to INT ratio is up. Aside from all that, the teams stinks, and they were a preseason top 10, with a great young O-Line, good WR’s and an excellent RB in Gray. Am I missing something?& write a lot of crap….expect to get a little back…haha :o) don’t take it personal, it’s a blog my friend
That's far from crap
it’s all true my friend.
And I don’t mind the ribbing at all. Just being me, as usual.
Crying Lion
Jones is more immobile than any of the other top QB's in the draft
that is true. He’ll have a worse time dealing with the rollouts and pressure than any of the other guys.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
He can throw very well on the run
and he’s definitly no Matt Schaub or Tom Brady back there
Crying Lion
Let me ask you this
I know your a knowledgeable guy. Would you be willing to bank the future of this franchise on Ryan Tannehill(who might not be ready to take an NFL snap until 2014), knowing what we’ve had to endure at the QB position in DC over the last 20 years?
Crying Lion
At this point I wouldn't bank the future on anyone other than Luck
& maybe Barkley. Let’s see how they look in the Bowl games, the post season scouting games & at the combine before we “bank the future” on any prospect but Ryan Tannehill looks to me at least to have a lot of potential.
I know
Thats all I hear with Tannehill………………….potential. I’m so sick of that word. I want my next QB to have “it”, not potential. Patrick Ramsey had potential. Jason Campbell had potential. Give me the guy who already proven he has “it”.
Crying Lion
guess what so does Landry Jones and so does Matt Barkley
they are potential and they def. aren’t guys who should start day one.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
You gotta get off of this start from day one stuff
that’s the coaches decision, not ours.
Crying Lion
so's drafting a QB or a particular QB
doesn’t mean I can’t have an opinion.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Your opinion is myopic
you think every QB should sit. You’d probably be for sitting Luck.
Crying Lion
no luck is the exception to the rule
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Nov 29, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
Look I don't mean to get snippy
but this is a sore subject with me(has been this way for a very long time). And then you get respected posters coming on saying we should overlook the QB spot again in the first round of the draft, and take another project, just to further their agenda.
If the guy was lighting it up, and had shown marked improvement from last season, I wouldn’t be so upset about this, but when a poster comes on and tells me they don’t like a certain prospect, becuase he didn’t show them enough growth this year compared to last, yet champions for another QB, who has a far lesser skill set, and had certainly regressed this season compared to last, but gfails to admit it, Yes, I get a little hot under the collar.
I’ll be the first to admit if I’m wrong about someone. Hell, I usually come and write a post about it, aknowledging it, and owning up to my mistake. I just can’t see why other refuse to do the same.
Crying Lion
further my agenda??
It is well studied and successful concept to not just jump into the first round fray and grab the next shiny toy.
and once again you are comparing using our likely top 10 first round pick on Landry Jones, while I’m talking about using our 35-40 pick on Ryan Tannehill that is a huge difference.
You’ve not proved me wrong on this, and since I have the facts on my side, why should I. Just b/c Ryan Tannehill has had a couple of bad games at the end of another good year doesn’t make him a struggling QB, I don’t know why you seem to believe that one or two games is an accurate sample size.
I’ve stated that while it’s my not my first choice I’d be okay drafting a first rounder, as long as it is the right guy, they don’t trade up for him and they sit him. I’ve yet to hear you admit that there are alternatives (since that is what most teams do) to your plug and play strategy with Barkley or Tannehill.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
I've given an alternative strategy or two
One was trade up for Luck. The other, was if somehow we neglected QB in the 1st, and had to go there in the 2nd, my guy would be Foles.
I am adament about getting a quality QB, who is ready to go when called upon.
The thing that upsets me is when you told me what you want to see in a QB, and you cited progression from year to year, and you told me Jones had not shown you the progression you’d like to see, yet you championed Tannehill, who has obviously had a disappointing year. Facts(since you seem all about bringing them up)are that Tannehills numbers have gone down(which I pointed out to you many times already. Jones have remained pretty consistant, considering he has had far less attempts this year, which will correspondely result in less completions, less yards and less TD’s. His completion percentage, YPA and sacks against have all improved. The ONLY thing you can point to is a slightly lower TD-INT ratio.
Crying Lion
a couple of things
1. Again I’m not talking about Tannehill with our top pick. So him having a minor regression in a couple of areas isn’t nearly as troubling as Jones.
2. Jones hasn’t remained consistent (and remember I wanted growth), his attempts and counting stats are down because he’s played in less games. Last years numbers were based on a full 12 games, plus the Big 12 Champ game and Bowl game. This year he still has the Ok State game and Bowl game to go. What I’m looking at are his rate stats, which haven’t improved in most cases.
-Jones is averaging 44.3 attempts per game up slightly from last year at 44.1.
Of those his YPA is up from 7.6 to 8.3
Completion % is down from 65.6 to 64.1
His TD % is down from 6.1% to 5.7% (and prior to the last 3 games last season, so at the same point this year it was 6.4%)
His INT% is up from 1.9% to 2.4% (last year through 11 games it was 1.7%.
That’s not really improving or staying consistent in my book, not when you have that level of talent and play in a spread offense.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Nov 29, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
I'm big into progression too...
That’s exactly why I’m so big on Foles in this upcoming draft…his completion % is up from 67.1 to 69.1, his yards are up from 3191 to 4334 with attempts and completions being way up from last year also with a game left to play. His TD-INT ratio is 2:1 which is a bit troublesome, I’d like to see it much higher, but I can most definitely live with one INT per 40 attempts.
One of the negatives with Foles is that he hasn’t lead his team to being winners…they lose A LOT of games. At one point, they lost 5 straight games this year, even though all 5 teams were ranked in the top 20 at the time, those losing streaks hurt
His attempts per game remained the same
His completion % for all intensive purposes, remained the same. His YPA is up. And his TD% is down.
I’ve already explained to you why his TD’s may have went down, but you don’t want to hear simple reasoning. I’ve also explained that since Broyles went out, his numbers have been down a little, but again, you refuse to take that into account(and yes, loosing the best WR in college football hurts).
If any other QB put up the numbers Jones is putting up, you’d be jumping for joy at the possibility of him joining out team. For some reason, you have an agenda against this guy; just like you did with Badford, Mallett, Locker, and Newton.
Crying Lion
I'm sorry that I have an agenda of wanting the Redskins to win games
I do apologize for that.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Nov 29, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
Jones and Barkley might need that long to develop as well
and there is little to suggest that they are more ready.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
there is a whole season to suggest Barkley is more ready
I havent seen that much of Jones outside the Baylor game….but Barkley is playing in a pro-style offense and making tons of reads each week. He looks as developed as you could want from a college qb, like he will transition well into the pros if he can handle the increased speed
by DCrez on Nov 29, 2011 8:54 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
and what if he can't handle the increased speed??
Let him sit and learn, maybe he’s one of the few that doesn’t need it, but why take that risk.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Nov 29, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
if he cant handle it he may never be able to
sitting on the bench and taking 20% of practice reps doesnt improve a player’s ability to handle nfl game speed. A lot of this stuff is pattern recognition and literally how fast a person thinks and reacts. Numerous qb’s are great in college but just cant do it in the pros, the bench wont give them better reflexes or ability to avoid bigger/faster players than they saw in college.
Of course he might need to sit because he isnt comfortable with the offense, but watching Barkley if there is one thing he’ll be fine with it’s learning and executing a new offense. Maybe it wouldnt be week1 but at some point in year1 he’ll have grasped it enough to play and see what he’s got.
by DCrez on Nov 29, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
it's more than the practice reps
it is the fact that instead of spending all your time in the film room and practice working on the game plan for a particular week or a certain teams defense, you can work on everything.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Nov 29, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
because really how big is the learning curve when you draft a guy
who has been in a pro-style offense for 3 years? sure it’s more complicated in the NFL and vastly more info to master….but if it takes a kid from a pro offense a full year to be ready to play you probably drafted the wrong guy
You know what can help with increased speed.......
having the arm needed to fit balls into tight windows.
Crying Lion
and that is Barkley??
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Nov 29, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
ahh i got confused since DCrez was talking about Barkley
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Wes Bunting would disagree
& IMHO he & Rob Rang are by far the most knowledgeable scouts around
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/scouting_department.html
I opened the link
and saw he had Janoris Jenkins stock on the rise, and I immediately closed it. Jenkins is playing horrible this year, and thats at a D2 school. These clowns also have Nick Toon at #22 overall in the first round.
The only good thing I saw was a big red arrow pointing down next to Mike Adams name.
Put it this way: Anyone who has watched Ryan Tannehill play this year, and can’t agree that his stock has fallen drastically shouldn’t even be considered a scout.
Crying Lion
You are missing the point
& also, those are all Seniors, which is why the rankings are skewed. Scroll down to 15 & read the scouting report on Tannehill. I have also watched him & I think he has a lot of potential. I am not sold on the guy either way, it’s way to early in the process for that.
I don't hate Tannehill
I just don’t like him as our QB. Maybe I hold this team in too high a regard. Maybe i’m sick of setteling on an average QB. Maybe I, for once, would like to see greatness form the QB position. I know Tannehill has struggled this year. I know he doesn’t have the strongest arm, and I know he isn’t good at going through progressions. I just don’t want to settle again., all for the sake of drafting more linemen.
If we strike out on QB again, so be it, but at least swing for the fences, instead of trying to take on another project QB. It’s been so damn fustrating watching the QB merry-go-round over the last 20 years.
Crying Lion
I would like to see us get a top tier QB
but they are not that easy to come by. If I were GM I would do just about whatever it took to get Andrew Luck in B&G & I have stated that here on multiple occasions. I would also trade up for Barkley (not nearly as much but I would give up our 2nd to move up) but if those scenarios are not happening then I still want us to draft a QB next year.
I'm on the same page as you
although I do like Jones too.
I guess it’s just my inner-fan coming out. I’m so sick and tired of setteling on a below average QB, or guys who are projects. That’s why I’m against Tannehill.
Crying Lion
Tiller you literally read my mind
I have nothing personal against the kid I just hate the fact that a) SOME posters are saying we should overlook top tier talent at the QB position and B) I think he’s too raw and the chances he ever develops are pretty slim.
Here is Ryan Tannehill in a nutshell:
The Guy has great intangibles as previously mentioned; no off the field issues. His experience isn’t there, he isn’t in a conference known for top tier defenses, he is good off of the snap, but he gets pressured easily compared to other QBs. His arm strength is below average to average at best. He isn’t as accurate and his offense is slightly gimmicky. He’s got a solid offensive line and good WR (Jeff Fuller?) He often locks onto receivers before the snap which leads to some of his interceptions and is also indicative of the fact that he doesn’t finish his progressions. He’ll force throws sometimes, but doesn’t have the ability to force it in tight windows due to his below average arm strength. One of his major issues is footwork as well and makes throws off of his back foot again leading to turnovers. Another issue is his lack of zip on his throws some of them take forever to reach receivers allowing CBs to make plays on the ball. He has great athleticism and is a good college QB he has potential to develop, but his football IQ isn’t there right now and I see him as a career backup and at best an average QB like Jason Campbell. He’s projected to go in the early 2nd right now.
Dear Passionate fan, I know you are passionate, but please reply with a logical answer or I will ignore you.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Nov 28, 2011 9:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
If you want to see greatness then why insist that the rookie should start?
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
couple of things
that list only includes seniors, and the mock draft they have there is from August I believe.
Janoris Jenkins has been playing really well at North Alabama, and is barely thrown on b/c he’s so talented. Obviously the off the field stuff is the real issue.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
swing and a miss
thanks for playing, but he has gotten high marks from most scouts out there
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
I wonder if the analysts saying Luck is the best prospect in the last 20 years
would trade Cam Newton for the rights to draft him. That’s what it means right?
I would definitely trade Cam Newton for this year's #1 pick.
Absolutely no hesitation.
However, I’ll agree that the 20 years thing is a bit of an exaggeration. Peyton came out in the last 20 years.
"Dominant" is an adjective.
"Dominate" is a verb.
We'll work on "Dominance" once we get the first two figured out.
Newton has accounted for 22tds through 11 games as a rookie
Luck has yet to throw a pass in the NFL. IMHO it would be crazy to make that trade
You're certainly entitled to that opinion.
However, 11 games isn’t all that much either. I’ll admit that Cam has played much better than I thought he would. However, I still see serious flaws in his game.
Looking at them as two prospects (obviously we now have some NFL data on Cam, but we have way more college data on Luck), I’d still rate Luck as the superior prospect.
"Dominant" is an adjective.
"Dominate" is a verb.
We'll work on "Dominance" once we get the first two figured out.
If I felt that way, I wouldn't trade him either.
We just see Cam differently, I guess.
"Dominant" is an adjective.
"Dominate" is a verb.
We'll work on "Dominance" once we get the first two figured out.
Sorry if I'm missing here or in another post but
what are the skins giving up to get luck (colts pick). Just are 2012 and 2013 1st pick?It would cost more than that. no?
I have my ship
And all her flags are a flyin'
She is all that I have left
And music is her name
far more than that
I’d say rough equivalent of 1st , 2nd, and 3rd rounders plus more (if we are top 5 it will be less) both this year and next.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
why would they accept that??
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Nov 29, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
that might land you in the top 5 to get Barkley, but doesn't have a prayer for Luck
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Nov 29, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
it's not hard to predict some of these things if you look at past trends, history and other factors
same with contracts for free agents.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Well, you can forget Luck if this is true
Dont know how valid the source is…
I have my ship
And all her flags are a flyin'
She is all that I have left
And music is her name
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