The Redskins 2012 QB situation
by TheDeepBall on Oct 30, 2011 7:36 PM EDT
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PrintHey guys. For the last few weeks I've been saying we should pass on a QB, trade back a few times and instead draft linemen, linebackers, corners, and wide receivers in this upcoming draft. But this week our offense scored no touchdowns. No points at all. John Beck even managed to fumble it once without being touched at all. And you know what?
I still stand by what I said.
A QB will not fix this Redskins team. The Offensive Line allowed 9 (Yes, NINE) sacks against the Bills today. There was seldom a open receiver. Our Defense allowed Fred Jackson a hundred yard rushing day, and allowed the bills 20 points of offense. Our best linebacker, who recorded an amazing 20 tackles today, is 37 years old and who knows how long until he retires? This is not the kind of team that can make up for a rookie's mistakes and win in spite of them. This is not a team that can afford to trade picks away to get a QB.
With each game, it looks more and more like the Redskins will once again have a top 15 pick. I still believe we should trade back. If we can fill all of these holes by trading back, then that is what we need to do. if we can get an extra second and 2 extra 3rds by trading back, this is what we must do. By acquiring that number of high round picks, the Redskins could rebuild the entire offensive line, get a good Wide Receiver and find the replacement for Fletcher. If we can't do this, a rookie QB will stand no chance. We must fix most of these holes if a rookie is to come to this team and have any kind of success. And if these holes can be filled this year, we will have all kinds of room in 2013 to trade up and do whatever we like to get a good QB (And there are indeed good QBs in this upcoming draft.). And then, my friends, we'll be ready to contend.
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I mostly agree with you
I see it as we have a top 10 pick, trade back, aquire more picks, and still get a guy like Tannehill either late first or early second. And we still fill a ton of other needs.
+1000
I think this can and should happen. Tannehill I truly believe will be a better QB than both Barkley and Jones, the only caveat is you should sit him for a year (esp. behind that line)
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Weren't you also one of the ones
you claimes Cam Newton would be a faliure in the NFL, or was that your “mini me” Parks?
John Denver was a musical genius
I believe you are correct.
I am so sick of hearing how we should have drafted a QB last draft or we need to get luck or spend a lot for Barkley. None of it matters if your oline can’t at the very Least stand in the way of some asshole
Just say NO! to Rex Grossman.
yea but i feel like we'd be going right back to where we were two years ago.
4th overall pick. “Hey we’ll draft an Oline this year and then a qb next year.” But we never drafted anything past a left tackle. Trent went fourth overall and in the rest of the draft and then this years draft we drafted 3 lineman all 6th or 7th round
Fear the Turtle!
by HailToTheRedskins on Oct 30, 2011 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
A good QB and good playcaller fix a lot of oline
holes…
be careful about identifying a symptom instead of a root cause…
these two are not a distinct as many believe.
but yes, so Oline depth would be good.
I actually believe that the root cause is th psychology of losing....
however the line doesn’t help. Look at the 49ers and Lions, their squads are not dramatically different but they are just playing better.
I believe that we have gotten so used to losing that it seems almost inherent.
Be careful about thnking a QB will solve all of what happened yesterday. I concede that a good QB would not have taken some of those sacks but 9? The argument would hold more water if it were only 3 or 4….but 9?
Just say NO! to Rex Grossman.
rookies aren't known for improving those areas
Maybe Manning or Brady can help, but a rookie/young QB is going to need support.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Oct 31, 2011 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
IMHO, we need a QB & an offensive line
RBs & WRs will improve if they have time to get seperation & holes to run thru. Grab Carl Nicks in FA, draft at least two other O-lineman early but definitely grab a QB in the 1st & build a team around his strengths. Bill Parcells decided to pick Jake Long instead of Matt Ryan, we can all see how that plan is working…get a quality QB with our 1st pick which is starting to look like it will be top ten (if not higher…).
+1
I agree you take your guy at that Top 10 spot. I’m starting to like Barkley.
Dear Passionate fan, I know you are passionate, but please reply with a logical answer or I will ignore you.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Oct 30, 2011 8:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
So am I
I thought he was very impressive yesterday, if he is available when we pick, I hope that he is our guy but I completely understand other people wanting offensive line help. Our O-line looks like a group of High Schoolers out there, unbelievable for THE franchise that has always prided itself on its O-line.
Loved him yesterday... making a believer out of me...
Barkley has faced tougher competition than Luck… I think he’ll do fine in the NFL
really?? I thought he looked pretty poor, esp when asked to move around the pocket
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
I thought he played very well.....
28 out of 45, a 62% comp. perc., 3 TDs with 1 int. & a QB rating of 132.8. His stats were decent but for me at least, he looked very good. For the season he is 204 out of 303 att.s with a 67.3 comp. % & a 151.5 QB rating. Easily my #2 QB.
I think the overtimes helped inflate his numbers a bit
He was 3/4 for 33 yards and 2 TD’s in the OT’s and that is a huge boost. In the 60 minutes he was 25/41 for 251 1 TD and 1 INT, for a 115 QB rating, and 60.1 % completion percentage, and just 6.1 YPA.
I don’t think Barkley can’t play in this league, I just question his accuracy and if he can fit it in the tight windows he will see in the NFL. A lot of his completions are high or have the guy reaching for it. In the NFL that is incompletes and INT’s.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
His numbers yesterday were similar to Luck's...
Andrew Luck: 302 yds 3 TDs 1 INT
Matt Barkley:.. 286 yds 3 TDs 1 INT
… and… he has faced greater competition…
Stanford’s Strength-of-Schedule… 101st
USC’s Strength-of-Schedule………….51st (twice as tough)
a lot of that difference is simply b/c USC plays Stanford and Stanford plays USC
Barkley (like Luck) gets a ton of time behind that offensive line, but when he is forced to move in the pocket his throws become highly erratic (unlike Luck). Barkley to me is a type of guy who could get shell shocked pretty quickly.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
His season stats are also very good
His leadership & big game experience are also positives. I thought his accuracy was fine, the 1st TD in OT was a thing of beauty
I agree sometimes he throws perfect balls that are simply textbook
but other times he is way off. My big problem with him is so many of his catches see to be wide or high, and they are catches simply because Robert Woods is unreal. He might not have Jake Locker accuracy issues where he throws the ball five feet behind the receiver, but in the NFL one foot behind the receiver still equals an INT.
I do give Barkley some solid marks overall, but I think he is vastly overrated, he’s not really a top 20 guy for me.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
That's how I feel about Jones....
I am not locked on Barkley, I do like what I have seen so far but I will keep your comments in mind next time I watch USC.
yeah I've soured on Jones some for some of the same reasons
I expected more development this year, but he looks pretty similar to last year’s version.
Barkley’s not bad, but his lack of consistent touch (esp on the move) scares the hell out of me. Also, I think him going from having a great O-line anchored by an elite guy, and a WR who is just far and away better than everyone else, to a team like the Skins would really be a rude awakening.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Haha...agreed
Also, I think him going from having a great O-line anchored by an elite guy, and a WR who is just far and away better than everyone else, to a team like the Skins would really be a rude awakening.
Soured on Jones
yet high on Tannehill………………wow, you know your QB’s!
John Denver was a musical genius
I understand the desire to repeat the draft we had this year
But Shanny can’t hang around year after year without drafting a QB.
It’s just time.
Rd 1 – QB
Rd 2 – OT to replace Jammal Brown
Rd 3 – C/G
Then its ILB/CB/WRs
And another OL should be acuired in FA
Unfortunately I don't this this will happen
We can’t seem to have a coach that doesn’t have at least one facet of the game that he is batshit insane about. For Shanny, he seems to be completely, 100% disillusioned about the OLine.
He did take TW 4th overall two years ago.....
not really disagreeing because we somehow waited until the 7th round before drafting another one …
I couldn't disagree with you more!
Like I’ve said before… Its time to stop being afraid… and just draft a QB!
The QB is the heart of the team (and specifically, the offense). As the QB goes… so goes the team! When we play with 2nd string QBs… that’s exactly how the team will perform!
Other rookie QBs have done well… (Newton, Ponder, Dalton). Why should we continue to play with 2nd (or 3rd) string QBs?
For once, I’d like to be envied by other teams because of our QB! I’d like to have everyone want to draft my QB for their FF team!… For that to happen… We must make QB our #1 priority!
We’ll have a 2nd, 3rd, and two 4ths… for O-line (OT, G and C), Secondary and any other need!
they all have better teams around them as well
I’m not saying we don’t draft one, but I’d kill to have any of those three teams offensive lines right now as each of them has at least one ‘stud’ lineman.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
So having a top QB would have somehow kept us from giving up 9 sacks against the Bills?
And would’ve stopped the bills from scoring points? and somehow would’ve gotten our Wide Receivers open? or opened holes for our RBs to run through?
Of course not... but maybe would have put some points in the board.
I’m talking about a state of mind… If there is faith in the QB… everyone plays better. Carolina has an awful team… worse than ours… but they believe in Cam… and it makes everyone better.
I also go to “Daily Norseman” once in a while… and trust me… their O-line is as bad as ours! but suddenly… they sit McNabb and play Ponder… world of difference in their attitude. They now believe in something. The Redskins… they only believe they can lose!
Our O-line is awful… because (1) we didn’t draft a C/G until the 7th (Hurt)… (2) kept J. Brown when we should have gotten rid of him, (3) keep playing the-Center-shuffle (Monty, Cook, who-knows-next-week), (4) have no O-line depth… but keep 8 WRs, (5, 6, 7) etc. etc. etc.
So how do you propose we fill 4 holes on the OLine
fix the needs at Corner, LineBacker, and WR, and get a top QB all at once? You can’t. You have to trade back just to get enough high-mid round picks to fill the other holes on the team.
Look... we need to separate "needs" from "wishes"
Wish;
- We’d all love to have the ultimate WR (wish)… but the reality is that we kept Moss, brought in Gaffney, drafted Hank and Niles Paul… amongst others. A competent QB should be able to work with these WRs.
- Yeah yeah London is old… guess what? He’s playing better than ever… at least with more heart than anyone today! We drafted Riley and brought in Fox… while they are not pro-bowlers… they should do ok until we can get another “London” (wish)
- I keep hearing DE… Jenkins will return next year!
Need;
- I agree with you that CB is a huge need. DHall has been awful, Barnes… well we’ve all seen. This class is deep with CB (need)… so the question is; Is CB a higher need than QB? We’ll debate this until draft day.
- Our O-line is non-existent (need)… but… Trent and Kory will be healthy next season. If we return Monty to C… this should buy us some time. We need to draft OT and G! Maybe trade Brown and bring in someone else! Having 5 picks in the first 4 rounds, we should be able to find a couple of talented O-linemen.
- QB… not worth mentioning again (need).
no
we need a true top WR. Moss is not long for this league and while Hank and Paul have the potential to be good there’s no telling whether they’ll be legit number 1 and 2 receivers. we need a Calvin Johnson or an AJ Green or a Greg Jennings or Andre Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald. Nobody on our WR corps scares anybody. we need a guy who commands double coverage. We don’t have one on this team right now.
We need a replacement for London. No rookie can fill his shoes. we need a guy with at least a year of experience. You think our Defense is falling apart now… wait till our best player is gone, with nobody ready to step up in his place. This is also a need, though admittedly less dire than OLine.
I never said anything about DE, but we still lack a true NT. Barry Cofield simply doesn’t command double teams. It’s a big reason we don’t have a good run defense.
Look at the lions and packers. If Stafford is injured, Shaun Hill can come in and still put up respectable numbers and win games.If Rodgers is injured, Matt flynn can come in and put up respectable numbers and win games. It is this capability, not the quarterbacks themselves, that make the team good.
So what's the solution... draft a 2nd round QB and develop him over the years behind Beck? or Rex?
I wouldn’t develop anyone behind those two! They might pick-up bad habits!
Trading back sounds great… we all want that every year… but at some point… you sit tight and pick the BPA… in our case the best QBA.
Shanny traded back last year, and still didn’t pick a QB. He didn’t like any of the QBs last year… you think he’ll pull the trigger on a 2nd round QB this year?
After today’s game, I’m just hoping he doesn’t over-reach for a QB next Draft!
that's the issue
why stay at say number 10 and draft Barkley when Tannehill is the better prospect. The worst thing we can do is ‘fall in love with a QB’ and read for one like the Jags last year. Gabbert might be fine long term but it will take some time.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
haha
oh yeah, how’s that doing for them? Gabbert hasn’t even topped 100 yards in 3 straight games and his completion % against Houston was under 35%.
exactly
the Redskins can’t fall in love with that one guy. And they esp can’t trade up for him.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Reasonable... I'm not in love with any QB yet... I like Barkley and RG3...
but I’m not sure they are that much better than Tannehill.
I think it was you who worte that Tannehill might make an RG3 move… and move into the bottom of the 1st… goes to show you… after Luck… how close these QBs are.
yeah i really think Tannehill will, not just based on talent (which there is)
but because when you get to that 20-32 range that is when teams trade up from the 2nd round for a QB. I’d rather trade back to the late teen’s pick up an extra 2nd and nab Tannehill then.
I really love Tannehill and have him right there with RGIII behind Luck.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
If he gets a good OL this year
gets a good WR and patches up the Defense, we can get Aaron Murray next year in the first round, and he won’t get crushed and beaten like any rookie we try to put in there next year will be.
By then we have more holes to fill
The sooner we can get a real QB, the sooner we can begin building a team around him. I comletely agree with you abot getting players for our offensive line but IMHO we need that franchise QB now.
So what happens when
a rookie QB gets put behind a rookie offensive line who have no game experience with each other? The QB begins to distrust his offensive line and we end up with another Patrick Ramsey.
by TheDeepBall on Oct 30, 2011 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't play ANY rookie QB immediately
& as I said above, I would go after Carl Nicks hard in FA, he is among the top if not the best Guard in the NFL & is only 24. I would also draft at least two more O-line, maybe DeCastro in the 2nd & possibly Brewster or Jones in the 3rd.
so your solution is to...
draft a guy in the first round and then have him sit for an entire season while the rest of the team continues to suck.
Sorry, but only teams that already have a good QB can afford the luxury of sitting a first rounder while he develops.
Why is that ??
The Titans are sitting Jake Locker, in the past it was common to sit a QB until he was ready. I also said to go after the best Guard in the NFL & draft the best Guard in April. In both your & my scenario a rookie QB will not be the starter the 1st game of the season, in my scenario at least at some point in the near future we will have a QB that we can begin building a team around. If we continue to put off drafting a QB we will continue to be a bottom third of the league team.
Haha @ holy shit glitch
I am not sure the owner & fanbase will tolerate NOT drafting a QB & going thru more debacles like yesterday….on this one maybe we agree to disagree
and... That's why you have Training Camp, and Pre-Season.
They’ll have months to work out the kinks, before the season starts!
& also....
wouldn’t it be sweet f the Cowboys were also shut out…..would take a lttle of the sting out of todays loss
just thinking that!
and… 3 teams would be tied at 3-4…
Giants 5-2
Redskins 3-4
Cowgirls 3-4
Eagles 3-4
I think you have the order wrong
Since the Skins have lost to the Cowpies and Iggles…and ignoring the head to head games of the rest….
Giants 5-2
Cowgirls 3-4
Eagles 3-4
Redskins 3-4
by DudleyDoright on Oct 31, 2011 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
So
Rogers makes no difference whatsoever? You think they still win the Superbowl with Matt Moore? I don’t. I know they wouldn’t.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
who?
You mean Matt Flynn?
If Rodgers had went down in the 1st quarter in the super bowl, I think the Packers would still have won.
Haha
Yeah, Matt Flynn. You’re talking THAT GAME. I’m telling you they don’t GET THERE without Rogers. Yes, they have a good backup QB. But he’s no Aaron Rogers.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
London isn't playing better than ever
sure he had 20 tackles today, but a lot of that was he was blowing his assignments. One of the biggest reason we are being run on these last 3 weeks is the play of Fletcher and McIntosh. I still think Fletch has another year or two but he is slowing down.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
high mid round pick ??
Is that a 3rd rd. pick ?? Chad Rinehart (who looked pretty good today, unfortunately) or Leonard Hankerson, who has been a major disappointment. More picks does not mean more players, I think we need a few good/elite players than a lot of mediocre/bad players. We were all ecstatic over our last draft but who has actually made a difference?? Kerrigan looked good in the beginning of the season but has disappeared, Jenkins might be great NEXT year, Hank,Helu & all the rest have just not made a difference. Draft a QB with that 1st pick & go O-line the next three.
not disagreeing with your premise
but part of the reason those 3rd and 4th rounders don’t work out is we don’t always give them the best chances. Why in the hell is Stallworth getting more snaps than Hank or Paul? Or Helu not getting a single carry, while Torain is awful for the 3rd week in the row.
I’m fine with your strategy, though I wouldn’t mind trading back some and grab Tannehill who I really believe will be a star.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
I agree with both your points... We should get rid of Stallworth... and I do like Tannehill
If Shanny doesn’t want one of the 1st rounders (Barkley, Jones, RG3)… then I’m hoping he goes for Tannehill.
Stallworth and Torain… are stunting the growth of Hank and Helu respectively!
Agree on Tannehill
& if we can trade back but stay in the 1st rd. & draft him, then count me in but look what happened with Ponder in this last draft, he was taken well before most thought he would go (& as we have seen with good reason). I worry that trading back & thinking that the “unknown” player that you really like will still be there 6 picks later might not work out, especially when it’s a QB. I also completely agree on your assessment of our young players, if we are going to lose, let’s do it with our future players
As I've said before
This perfect team people talk abou tis a myth. You will NEVER “fill all your holes”. No team…..NO TEAM is perfect. The best teams have the best players…PERIOD. And the ELITE teams? For the most part, they have the best quarterbacks.
Don’t you think it’s funny how, somehow, we’ve had the “worst offensive line in the league” every year, for the past decade. Our offense has been awful for a decade, but our line has NOT been the worst in the league over that time. The Steelers, Packers, Eagles, etc. have given up more sacks than us some years. But they overcome it, because they have good QB play.
Look, is it optimal to put a rookie QB behind a mediocre line? No. But you just have to put faith in your process. Or, you just manage scared, and spend the next 10 years drafting spare parts, but never getting what you need to get you over the top.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
yes but they didn't subject rookie QB's to that poor o-line play
Rodgers sat, Roethlisberger had 3 pro bowlers on that line, and McNabb sat for most of the year and then had bookend tackles Tra Thomas and Jon Runyan.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Roethlisberger
Was sacked 30 + times his rookie year. One way or another, you made my point for me. Either his line wasn’t that good, or he was a good enough quarterback to overcome the line play. OR he was bad enough to be the reason he was sacked so much.
Rogers? Sacked 30+’times in his first year at starter. And do you really think the time he sat helped him to deal with pressure? And it certainly didn’t improve, as he was sacked like 50 times the next year.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
I don't know if you realize this
but being sacked 30 – 40 times is normal. Actually, being sacked just 30 times is better than the league average.
by TheDeepBall on Oct 30, 2011 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank you
I was hoping you would say that. Now, granted, my point loses total validity after yesterdays game, but we all have to know that was an anomaly. It’s another one of those instances where, whatever a team does bad, they do it better against us.
Anyway, back to my point. Up until yesterday, we were on track for a low 30 sack total. Like you said, about league average. And, like I said, not the worst line in the league.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
No.
but we all have to know that was an anomaly
It was a result of having approximately ZERO depth on the OLine.
30 times isn't too bad
and it is expected that all rookie QB’s have a higher sack rate, especially a guy like Roethlisberger who gambles more than most. They had 3 really good Pro Bowlers on that line who are 1,000 times better than anything we got. Even their other two linemen were solid-good players. If Roethlisberger was behind our line he’d probably get sacked 60 times.
And yes I do believe letting Rodgers sit helped him immensely. It helped his decision making, his reading of defenses, and pressure etc. There is always a learning curve, and being able to sit made this transition easier.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
So Beck should be ready
For the Pro Bowl. He sat twice as long as Rogers.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
they have some holes on their O-line esp at LT
but Steve Hutchinson and John Sullivan is better than anything we field, and Phil Loadholt is pretty solid as well. They desperately need a LT and could use an upgrade at RG, but they aren’t nearly as dire as we are.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
We wouldn't have gottrn sacked 9 times if we had a better QB
It wasn’t all on the O-Line. Beck held the ball too long plenty of times.
Formerly know as iNFamous SWaGG
sure, because a rookie QB is going to go through his reads like a seasoned vet
get real.
by TheDeepBall on Oct 30, 2011 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
What "seasoned vet"
Was playing for us yesterday?
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
Oh no, I was just saying
he’s going to take just as long if not longer to make his reads as Beck was yesterday. Beck actually has the advantage here because he’s spent 2 years in the offense.
looks like top 15 pick?
way out on a limb there huh.
you should remove the first number…
we are terrible I flew Toronto for this?
btw – just for the record…..it would be insane to not take a QB. We are going to needs 2-3 years to groom him. We need s reason for top pick like Kerrigan and Orakpo to hang around. Not committing to a QB when we don’t have an NFL starting caliber QB would be malpractice.
by DavidDunn on Oct 30, 2011 9:14 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I can't go another year without the guy already here.
Draft a guy in the first. Trade back and do it? Sure. Just draft somebody. Yea I know. Campbell and Ramsey. Well we have to go again.
by Andrew DeFrank on Oct 30, 2011 10:09 PM EDT reply actions
Ha ha... watching The Legend of Ron Burgundy!
Our Offense today smelled like “a turd covered in burnt hair”.
LOL @ putting off another year to not draft a QB
We have plenty of other needs, including the O-Line, BUT the franchise starts with the QB, and until we get a QB, it’s always going to be a wasted season. And why do you think we should keep on putting it off? I hear the same thing every year “We have other needs. Lets draft someone else and wait to get our QB next year, which will be much deeper.”, but that isn’t the case this year. This QB class is DEEP. I don’t know many good 2013 QB prospects that you speak of. If there is still a good QB in the draft when we pick in the 1st, and we pass on him, I might just give up on this new regime.
This is my plan:
1. Grab one of RGIII or Tannehill in the 1st since we’re ut of the Luck sweepstakes
2. Go OL/ILB/CB in the next rounds
3. Sign Bowe and Grubbs in FA
4. ???
5. Profit
Formerly know as iNFamous SWaGG
Please not barkley...
He just seems like another limp qb out of usc. i know the kid has been hyped up for 10 years but I just can’t get behind the next leinart, sanchez, palmer, cassell, etc…they’re all ok but nothing great. If we had a good team to go around them (like the jets) then sure do it but if they’re gonna burn a high pick at least make it a high upside gamble at this point than a younger beck. We need cb, qb, ol, wr, ilb, help leaps and bounds before we worry about the money position. I’m as sick and tired of having the plug in player throwing the ball as the next guy but i just don’t see the point unless its a guy that may take us past “good” because a qb, be it luck or not, won’t change the rest of the squad. Here’s to trading back…again.
My opinion...
The oline is by far and away the biggest issue. When TW comes back I hope they move Locklear to RT and move Brown to the bench. And please Make a decision on the WRs. Glad to see Hank on the field. Sick of saying cut Banks, but I guess I just did. Anyone know where Capers landed? He can’t be any worse than what we saw today. Bring him back and put him in at LG beside TW and move Monte back to center with Cook backing him up. Keep Chester where he is with Lock beside him. I think this would be a mediocre line which is more than we have right now. And yes, draft a frigging QB!
Never mind on Capers,
The Giants signed him to the practice squad. Wouldn’t that be great if we got to see him pushing us around in NY.
by MAJSkinsfan on Oct 31, 2011 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I was hopeful reading this post
I thought for once, someone on this site would admit they were wrong about something, but alas no. Standing by what you said is not brave on HH, it is the norm
Some simple facts.
With the new passing rules and the rules banning hitting, the QB position is not the most important position, it is the only position that has real importance. A good QB can mask many other problems (see Indianapolous) whereas good play at the other positions can rarely if ever cover defincies at QB (See Baltimore v Jacksonville)
WE HAVE TO USE OUR FIRST ROUND PICK ON A QB and if we have to trade away future 1st Rounders to move up we should.
I would honestly trade a team 5 years or even 7 years of 1st round picks to move up and get Luck, and I would trade the following years 1st and 2nd rounders to get Barkley. QB is the only thing that matters, everything else can be covered up in Free Agency and later rounds of the draft. Quaterback can only be fixed with a Top 10 pick unless you luck into Tom Brady.
Pommylee
Oh, and for the record
it wouldn’t matter who we put out there at QB against Buffalo this week. Aaron Rodgers couldn’t make this team look good. If you mix ice cream with shit you just have sweeter shit.
thats just wrong dude
Aaron Rodgers would make a HUGE difference to this team’
Now granted we have many holes, but my point is simply that you can no longer build a real conteder without an Elite QB. The Jets and Ravens are as close as anyone to doing it, but without elite play at the QB level you just cant win in this league.
Pommylee
So I guess the Ravens
Jets, Bears, Falcons, Texans, Giants, Buccaneers, Bengals, 49ers and Lions aren’t “real” contenders, since their QBs aren’t elite. Oh wait, they are "real’ contenders, they’re all above .500 and in the playoff hunt.
and don’t try to tell me Big Ben, Matt Ryan, or any other QB for those teams are elite either, because they are absolutely not.
you are disproving your own points
what are these numbers?
5, 11, 3, 90, 1, 17, 35, 1, 1
That is draft position for the QB of the team you named…
3 #1, 5 top 5, 7 first rounders,
And the proves we should not take a QB in the first round how?
And then you say a QB who has won 2 SBs and taken his team to 3 is not elite? This isn’t fantasy football you know?
Take a step back, and admit you made a mistake. Remember the first rule of holes….
haha
Mark sanchez, Jay Cutler, Flacco, Ryan, Dalton, or Alex Smith aren’t even close to elite. Some might be good to very good but that is about it.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Oct 31, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Good to very good
Is better than ANYTHING we’ve had here in 11 years. By FAR.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
i'm not disagreeing with that
just this premise that there are apparently about 20 elite QB’s in the NFL.
The fact is whether we draft a guy or not they are more or likely going to be in the Ryan, Cutler, Flacco category, so maybe we should consider building a team around them.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Oct 31, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
HAHAHAHA
You think Cutler, Flacco, Smith, Dalton, sanchez, Ryan, Schaub, Eli Manning, Roethlisberger, and Stafford are elite?
i’d like you to go and check out their Yards per attempt and completion %, please. Then come back and tell me they’re elite.
This only proves my point that being a first round pick does NOT necessarily make a QB elite, or even good. Most of those guys aren’t even in the top half of the league in at least one of those two stats i mentioned.
True...they are not all Elite from a stats perspective
But I would argue that Cutler, Big Ben, Eli, and Stafford at least have elite skill sets that allow them to make plays that other QBs simply cannot….and that’s what you get generally from a 1st round QB.
Not saying that you absolutely have to have that, but it can help
who cares whether anyone thinks they are elite
Here Is the stat that counts. Playoffs appeareances. And the teams you named have high draft picks as QB almost exclusively, disproving the entire intent of this post. The Redskins will not be a contender without a QB no matter how great our oline or receivers are. If a receiver is key, Arizona should be a contender every year. TO should have 3 rings. To bypass a QB just for no reason would be plain dumb. Sorry to be so blunt. And the most interesting thing is almost all of your comments prove that even though that wasn’t your intern.
by DavidDunn on Oct 31, 2011 5:26 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Rex Grossman has made playoff appearances
and so have Todd Collins and Trent Dilfer. I take it they’re elite too?
As I said, who cares if they are elite are not
the point is they are high draft picks with some semblance of QB skill and taking slot machine pulls in the 3rd and 4th round is absolutely insane…
tell me how many years in the league those guys have and how many playoff appearances they have and get back to me….
anomalies don’t make your arguments any better…
when you have to stretch as much as you have to make an argument, clearly you are barking up the wrong tree…
really?
defense’s don’t matter? Everyone loves to talk about the difference in the Colts b/c of their QB, but name me how many other teams are winning solely b/c of their QB? The Saints have easily a top 3 QB, yet they lost today to the St. Louis Rams who were playing their back-up QB.
And the Jags game shows what a good-great defense can do. Flacco might not be Brady, but he’s not John Beck either. The Jags D shut him and Rice down and they came away with a win.
And for all the talk about how this is a ‘passing league’ quite a few of the top teams are relying on their ground game and winning.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
the saints
also won a Superbowl
Look at the last 10 superbowl winners, back to Dilfers Ravens and Tampa with Johnson and they are all elite Quaterbacks.
What the Jets are doing is remarkable, but a huge part of their success despite not having a top QB (who was still a Top 5 pick mind you) is that they stop the other teams QB from operating at his usual level thanks to Revis.
Now I will grant you that I probably did not speak correctly here. What I should ahve said is that you cannot build an offense with average play at QB anymore. Like in the past you could be a dominant running attack, or have elite play at receiver to make your QB look better, but with the new rules to have a contender of an Offence you need an elite QB.
But you are right, with REvis and the like with an elite D, you can be a playoff team even with poor Quaterback play. Still to win it all, it is my opinion that in the modern NFL you have to have elite QB play
Just look at the recent Champs
Green Bay – Rogers
Saints – Brees
Steelers – Big Ben
Giants – Manning (the weakest of the bunch, and they had elite D and fluky plays)
Colts – Manning
Steelers- Big Ben
Pats – Brady
Pommylee
The saints Defense led the league in turnovers that year
and returned the most turnovers for touchdowns.They had the 6th best rushing attack in the entire league, had a 4.5 yard per carry average, and were tied with the Ravens for 7th in the league in rushing attempts, with 468. Their offensive line only allowed 20 sacks.
Oh hey, that sounds like a pretty COMPLETE team. Brees didn’t exactly put the team on his back like you constantly seem to be implying. The team worked as a whole to bring themselves to that super bowl. They’re just another shining example of how the quarterback is only one player on the team.
Oh, and Calvin Johnson is a pretty good example of how elite play at receiver can make your QB look better if you ask me. Just saying.
Yes...the Saints won in spite of Drew Brees
And apparently, you missed the fact that Matt Stafford was a number one pick and has done a pretty good job of making Nate Burleson and Brandon Pettigrew look good.
Is it your insinuation that if the QBs name isn’t Brady, Manning, or Rodgers, then any old QB will do if you have a great LT and WR?
You realize that makes no sense I hope?
Exactly
He acts like any QB could do great behind a great O-Line. Beck & Grossman would still probably suck. They both hold the ball too long and miss open reads frequently.
We need a QB NOW! Why would we put it off now that this year’s QB class is the deepest in years? Not drafting a QB has been setting us back years, and we’re wasting our young talent like Rak and Landry.
Formerly know as iNFamous SWaGG
well Brandon Pettigrew is good
I can’t speak for him, but I don’t think that is what he was saying. He was just saying Brees did not carry that team on his own. It was a team effort. Yes he might put them over the top, but the point is if you put a Jason Campbell on that team they are still a 9 to 11 win team. And if you put a Drew Brees on the Redskins at any time in the last 3 years we are probably at best an 8-8 team.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Oct 31, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
so your saying J campbell would have won a superbowl w/ the saints???
HELL TO THE NO!!!!!! and you know this…
are you and deep roommates?? old high school friends?? from the same town?? or are you just exceptionally gifted at braiding his pubic hair?
cut it out…. your looking like deeps protective girlfriend… your leaking man points… geez…
did i say that??
no I said they were still a playoff team
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Oct 31, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
lol, Tommy gunn
I take it since taking the same side of an argument makes us a package then you, DMVLegend, and DavidDunn are all in some 3-way homosexual relationship with each other, you fucking cretin. You’ve not been right on a single football topic since you got here, not on Banks, and definitely not on Torain, you’re 0 for 2 and you’re working on making it 0-3. The only thing you’ve ever done to support yourself since you got here is twist people’s words and change topics, and make baseless claims- often hypocritical – without any hard evidence or fact to back your shit up when you do any of these things. Maybe people will take you seriously when you quit this bullshit and act like a fucking grownup. Fuck’s sake.
ill take the banks hit no prob… he hasnt been showing up no doubt… see how thats done?? its called admiting when your wrong… take note..
Torain?? we all know u refuse to admit ur shitty outlook on him… again, you have a prob admiting when ur wrong… its you dude… you choose to down him when the line is all but nonexistent??? get real..
your boy helu hasnt done squat behind that shat either… no rb would probably… put him behind that line that was blocking during the ST.L game… give him 20 touches behind that line and see what happens…
twist your words??? no need to… you do a fine job of sticking your own foot in your mouth…
and yea, you 2 do seem like undercover lovers… you 2 probably meet at a bar somewhere sharing apple martinis…
change topics??? what topics did i change? baseless claims? which claims were baseless cut the shat for “fuck’s sake”…
deep and steveo sitting in a tree…. K I S S I N G!!! LOL…
Oh, so Torain gets a pass because he doesn't have a line
but Hightower doesn’t. Typical hypocritical argument from tommy, folks.
Helu had 20 yards on 3 carries yesterday. Torain had 20 yards on NINE carries. That’s TRIPLE the number of carries for the SAME number of yards.
tommy and daviddunn laying in a bed, F-U-C-K-I-N-G. LOL…
You fucking moron.
I never said that.
Way to twist my fucking words. I said that Brees was not the ONLY reason they won, not that they won in spite of him. Reading comprehension, fool.
you are right...he won sportsman of the year because
he was riding the back of Greg Williams defense…
OK then you bet on a
team without an elite QB and build it on other stuff and i’ll bet on the team with the elite QB, we’ll see who is richer.
Its just madness to claim you can win consistently in the modern NFL without top line QB play. But if you want to cling to that belief hey dont let me stop ya. So instead of drafting Andrew Luck next year, what we should get a once in a generation Right Tackle, how about a Guard, maybe a great Guard can take us all the way to a Superbowl with Rex Grossman at QB. How about Strong Safety, oh wait we had the leagues best Strong Safety and with average play at QB we didnt even make the playoffs. So yeah keep beleiving what you like, i’ll take the quaterback
Pommylee
You don't get it.
You can’t make it with one great guy at a single position. You need great players at every position. Having a great QB means NOTHING if the line plays like it did yesterday or if the receivers can’t get open. One of the main factors of the Patriots offense? Their OL is one of the best in the league. This is not a result of Tom Brady being there either – Matt Cassel did just fine, too, and so would Ryan Mallet if he had to step in. Their team is good enough to mask mistakes if a backup QB steps in. Ours is not. We need to fix that before we get a rookie. Otherwise we’ll just have another Ramsey on our hands, regardless of draft spot.
so you have one example.
Sorry, try again. The anomaly is not the rule, friend. There are plenty of examples supporting my case. The 2000 Ravens and 2006 Bears are the obvious ones, but there are more, such as:
The Rams. Supposedly great QB, shit team.
The Chiefs: They went 10-6 last year but are failing to meet expectations this year. Cassel is still around, so what’s the difference? They lost a bunch of the players that supported him.
The Bengals: Andy Dalton is a rookie QB who has an excellent supporting cast. He has good Wide receivers (Optimus Prime in particular) and their defense is playing excellently. They are 5-2, and it is not as if Dalton has been carrying them
The Jets: I think we can all agree that Sanchez sucks, but they manage to make deep runs into the playoff every year.
The Ravens: check Flacco’s YPA and completion percentage, they say it all.
The Giants: It’s been noted that Eli is practically a glorified Rex Grossman. but the team itself is good.
The Panthers: Cam Newton, 2-6. That is all.
a good QB does not a good TEAM make. Unless that QB’s name is Peyton and the team quits because he’s not around. and if you’re going to point to examples, or knock mine, point out more than one, and don’t just try to pick apart one or two of my examples, that would be stupid and annoying on a tommy gunn level.
last time I checked
the Chiefs were 4-2 though why you bring them up I dont know because Cassell sucks anyway.
Look I used to love this site because you could come on here and have DISCUSSIONS where ppl conceded points and worked towards a compromise or if they did hold to their points did it with respect.
But as soon as I see ppl saying Cam Newton 2-6 that is all, what that tells me is that someone said Cam was terrible at the start of the year and is the sort of person who will never change their mind about anything regardless of the evidence presented. so I am terminating this discussion. The web is full of places where ppl blindly stick to their views regardless of evidence. HH used to be a sanctuary from those places, clearly not anymore
Pommylee
in fact scrap my above example
to truly explain my frustration at your style
its the constant words like stupid and above when talking to someone else where you got personal. That is what used to not exist on this site, but you have bought it here and hence that is why I rarely visit anymore, I used to be on here everyday but that rubbish is why I have now departed and visit seldomly. We used to be able to disagree without being disagreeable but unfortunately you have bought this internet here where cowards hide behind the anonymity that the internet provides. Would you ever talk to someone in that tone and with those words in a bar, no you would not
Pommylee
The only one I've called stupid is tommy gunn
who started it in the first place. And I would absolutely call him an idiot to his face, because he is one and I don’t like him. I haven’t called YOU stupid, so why you’re getting so agitated is beyond me.
the Jets are a cautionary tale
they traded up from a position that they could have had Josh Freeman, plus the additional package that they moved up for Sanchez.
To win it all you need a great team, and probably a great QB. No QB can do it alone and that is a fact. Look at the defenses of the Giants, Steelers, Saints, Packers and Pats??
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Oct 31, 2011 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Hopefully the Rams just lose out.
And we can trade a bunch of picks for Andrew Luck. Maybe we can get him a full body suit like Romo has, just covering his entire body until the 2013 draft comes.
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