It's been coming, the Rex Grossman breakdown. Part 1 - A look at all 5 Interceptions.
by UkRedskin on Oct 3, 2011 10:57 PM EDT
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PrintSo, the Washington Redskins are 3-1, and the thing everyone is talking about isn't how our defence managed 7 sacks, or how we dominated the run game vs the Rams. The spotlight is on Rex Grossman and his... lets say interesting performances thus far. So lets get this breakdown out of the way early in the bye week so we can focus on something else. First, lets have a look at Grossman's statistics that I'm sure you all probably know by now:
In 4 games, Grossman has completed 83 passes out of 143 attempts (that's a 58% completion rate) for 989 yards, 6 TD's and 5 INT's. He has been sacked 8 times, and has fumbled twice, both of which we lost. He has a QB rating of 78.7. Not spectacular, but not horrible either. He ranks joint 23rd in the NFL in QB rating with Colt McCoy above the likes of Jay Cutler, Mark Sanchez and Josh Freeman. Ben Roethlisberger, Tom Brady, Cam Newton and Tony Romo have thrown as many INTs as him, while Phillip Rivers has thrown 1 more.
I could sit here and bore you all day with statistics, lets have a look at some film starting with all his INTs this season. First up, Rex's first INT against the Cardinals:
Situation: 3rd and goal on the Arizona 6. 1st Quarter, 10:13 remaining . Personnel: 4 WR's (Anthony Armstrong, Jabar Gaffney, Santana Moss, Donte Stallworth) 1 TE (Fred Davis).
We're looking at a deep zone heavy defense from the Cards. We're running a 'bunch trips' formation on the right side. The primary target on the play is Fred Davis, who should be able to split the two middle zones in the end zone on his route. As we see in the next picture, Davis gets held up on his route and re-directed forcing Rex to look to the other side.
Something I've noticed Rex does a good job of is if he see's his main target is covered, he quickly progresses to his next read. It's something he's said in interviews that Kyle Shanahan stresses to all the QB's to do, not to stay on one target too long and hope he gets open. You can see in the two pictures above, he looked for his primary target in Davis, who got redirected off his route by the defender. Rex instantly comes back across the field to check his other targets. But what he see's is Armstrong covered deep by what he possibly thought (we'll come back to this in a minute) was two DB's. Gaffney is covered on his route, while Moss looks covered as well. All the while, Williams is struggling to hold his block. Rex starts to feel the pressure and starts to move. Moss is good enough to see Rex needs help and gets himself a yard off the defender.
The pressure is nearly there, Rex has to make a decision quick, try the throw, tuck and run (unlikely with it being Rex) or throw it away and take a FG. Rex takes the first option and attempts to fire it in to Moss. As you can see in the picture above, his feet aren't set under him as he attempts to throw on the run. He ends up making the throw on his back foot, leading him to lose accuracy. In comes that second DB he may have thought was helping to cover Armstrong. In actual fact he was passing Armstrong onto the other DB and makes a break on the ball (or at least to stop Moss if he catches it). Whether Grossman saw him or not, only he'll know. I'm leaning to think he didn't see him or he would have thrown it away knowing Moss would have gotten hit as he caught the ball and wouldn't have made a TD anyway. But at the same time Rex could have just trusted Moss ability to break a tackle and tried to fit it in, we'll never know. In the end, Grossman's off-balance throw led him to miss a diving Santana Moss significantly and hits the DB in the chest for an easy INT.
I put that INT down to him throwing off-balance. If he throws that with feet set, he'll hit Moss almost every time.
Lets move onto his second INT in that game. There was nothing Rex could do about this one. He threw a fine pass that would have gotten us a 1st down but it was tipped by Armstrong and is just floated up for the defender to get an INT.
You can clearly see here, that this was a pass interference penalty that was missed by the officials. Jefferson is holding Armstrong's left hand back when the ball is there, restricting him from making a two-handed catch. Can't blame that on Rex, that's just unlucky and a bad call from the officials. Onto the Cowboys INT.
Situation: 1st and 10 on the Washington 17, 2nd Quarter, 14:22 remaining. Personnel: 1 WR (Santana Moss), 3 TE's (Chris Cooley, Fred Davis, Logan Paulsen) and 1 RB (Roy Helu).
This is the worst INT Rex has made in my opinion. I've watched it several times over and I just can't see what he was trying to do. It's a heavy protection formation, in effort to give Rex time to hit someone deep. We send Moss on a double move, Helu motions out to WR and appears to run an 'out' or a 'comeback', but its not clear, and Davis is also on a deep pattern
His first read is Moss, he see's that Moss still has 5 yards of a cushion from the DB to eat up so, remembering that Kyle Shanahan has told QB's not to wait for one read to get open, progresses to his second read. That would be Davis.
At this angle, as he goes to throw the ball, you can see the space for Grossman to throw into. It's a tough throw as he needs to lead Davis to avoid the LB in man coverage on him (and as it turns out, Sean Lee as you see circled in pink), but not too far to avoid the deep safety making a play on the ball.
Here's the angle from behind Rex as he throws the ball. After the game Rex said he didn't see the Mike (Middle LB, Sean Lee on this case). From this view you could perhaps see why, as there is another defensive player stood 10 yards directly in-front of him, and Rex has an Olineman in-front of him who he's probably struggling to see over as it is (Rex isn't that tall for a QB). So this could perhaps shed some light as to why Rex didn't see the Mike.
However, I would like to see his explanation on the ball placement. Circled in pink is where Lee intercepted the ball, notice that he caught it between waist and chest height, and notice that the LB on coverage of Davis is only a few feet away from Lee when he intercepts the pass. This looks to me like a horribly under-thrown/poorly judged throw. I've circled in red roughly where that ball would have needed to be placed for Davis to make the catch. I don't believe that even if Lee or the other LB hadn't been there, that the ball would have even reached Davis without bouncing. Easily one of Rex's worst throws as a Redskin. Onto the next INT.
This is another unlucky INT for Rex that he can't do anything about. He gets pressure and has to get rid of the ball early to his hot read Moss. Rex does everything perfectly, even managing to delay the throw (and throw accurately off-balanced) as long as possible to allow Moss to recover from slipping 
You can see here the pressure on Rex to get the throw off and you can see it hits Moss perfectly in stride. The ball bounces off Moss's hands, onto his knee, and up into the air just nicely for the safety to come up and make a play. That's two of the 4 INT's we've now seen that have been unlucky and not Rex's fault. Onto his last INT.
Situation: 1st and 10 on the Washington 20. 4th Quarter, 5:45 remaining. Personnel: 2 WR's (Jabar Gaffney, Santana Moss), 1 TE (Fred Davis), 1 FB (Chris Cooley), 1 RB (Tim Hightower).
To start with, I know a lot of people will criticize this play-call because we have a lead and just need to run out the clock. We had a similar situation last week, and Kyle Shanahan said then that we had a 1 score lead, with time still on the clock. They believe the best way to approach it is attack and get a bigger lead, taking time off the clock in the process. A play-action is a great call because everyone is expecting a run on 1st down to get the clock moving.
Moss is running a 'deep comeback' route which actually takes him to the 40 yard line, but that's out of the picture here. Gaffney runs an 'out and up' where it starts off looking like an 'out' route, but is actually going deep up the sideline. Cooley helps block the hole on the fake run, then gets out to into the flat.
From these two pictures, we see that the James Laurinaitis, the Mike LB bites on the play-action, and then has to turn and get back into position. On the second picture, I've also circled the big group of Linemen that could potentially block Grossman's view of Laurinaitis getting back into position.
In the top left corner you can just about see Moss's legs as he is slowing down to turn around and receive the pass. Grossman does a nice job of 'eyeing off the safety' (which means he keeps the lines on his helmet straight making the safety think he's looking straight down the field, when actually his eyes are looking at Moss) and throwing just as Moss begins to turn. Unfortunately, Laurinaitis is also watching Moss. He see's that Moss is running a comeback route, and reads the play beautifully. I've also circled the group of linemen again to show that potentially Grossman couldn't see Laurinaitis (although I think this is just a case of a brilliant play from Laurinaitis.
You can see Moss is miles open and the safety at the top of the screen that Grossman 'eyed off'. From here though, it's all about Laurinaitis, who gets his head round and locates the ball just as its getting to him.
He does a great job catching the ball having had very little time to locate it before it got past him. It's hard to fault Grossman on this play, he saw Moss open deep and kept the safety off him. Laurinaitis just made a heck of an adjustment to make a play.
So overall we have 5 INTs. 2 of which weren't in anyway Rex's fault. 1 was a great play from the mike LB, 1 was an off-balanced throw after feeling pressure, which is something he can learn from and adjust. That just leaves 1 really bad play, which I still can't really help Grossman out with.
Next time we'll have a look at some of the positive from Rex in these games, but as this is nearly 2000 words long, I think I'll cut this here as part 1.
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Nice analysis, I watch all the games and while I’m not thrilled with the turnovers the one to Lee was the worst IMHO because the ball was just such a worm burner to begin with. To Lee’s credit though the kid is quite good in coverage and has a knack for making INT’s. The Laranitis INT was just a great play because he got on his horse and got right into position; tells me that he studies film very well to boot.
But the problem I have with Rex isn’t the INT’s it’s the lack of playmaking ability we have on offense as a whole. I don’t know if defenses were sandbagging it in the preseason but we looked like we were playing at a level that we haven’t reached since the Pittsburgh game at all. Our defense looks spectacular though. I just think that we need to really hope that one of those two big rookie WR’s can make some progress by the middle of the season and contribute because beyond Moss no one seems to have playmaking ability right now. No one is scared of a Gaffney who is a very nice possession receiver and Armstrong who seems to have regressed.
by It's Always Sunny in DC on Oct 3, 2011 7:09 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I don't think Armstrong
Has regressed. I think it’s just a matter of not being able to utilize his strengths. I know I will catch flak for “jumping on” Rex here, but I’m not. The bottom line is, Armstrong is our deep threat. He’s our new Ricky Sanders. Unfortunately, Rex doesn’t have the arm strength to throw a legitimate deep ball. As bad as McNabb was last year, the only thing he DID do was get the ball deep, which is something we weren’t used to seeing around here.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
Also has a lot to do with
Gaffney being brought in to play second WR and Fred Davis’s emergence. Davis has played so well that he needs to be on the field. If we have Cooley on the field as well, we can’t always have a 3rd WR. Plus we can’t forget that he has had a few knocks at the moment keeping him from getting on the field too often.
Follow me on Twitter: @UkRedskin1 feel free to give suggestions on what you'd like to see broken down each week.
All true
Definitely. Every one of those points show why his catches have gone down. (As expected) But, in my opinion, his explosion onto the scene last year AND the way he endeared himself to people around here were due to the fact that he was catching deep balls that have been absent around here for years.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
Can't throw a deep ball?
That’s what he was known for in Chicago. That and turnovers. Could the perceived lack of arm strength have more to do with a change in mechanics to get the ball out quicker? He seems to be way better against the blitz than he used to be, and I am wondering whether he is sacrificing zip on his passes in order to get the ball out quicker to beat the blitz
by DiscoLemonade on Oct 3, 2011 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it has more
To do with him being older. I dunno for sure. But I’ve noticed since last year that he doesn’t have the arms strength he used to have. I also gleaned as much from listening to interviews with Armstrong and Cooley in the preseason.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
I'll agree with CJ here
terrible deep ball
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
yeah, he used to throw a good deep ball but that was years ago
We finally have a decent WR corps and now we don’t have a QB to deliver the ball. Grossman is just a stop gap QB IMO and we need to look for a real starter.
Well he's injured right now, but yeah, he's our #3
I think Gaffney’s a much more sure-handed receiver and we’ve needed that possession guy for awhile now. Armstrong’s definitely our deep threat but we do have some legitimate guys to spread the ball to now.
by Dammit Cerrato... on Oct 3, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't blame two of the pick's on him
But the other 5 turnovers were just plain careless. I know in 9 years of experience, what you see is prolly what you’ll get. I’m not expecting some transformation in Rex, but I really have to question his height and ability to see the field/over the line. His two interceptions to LBs over the middle (Sean Lee and Laurinaitis) were just horrible decisions on his part. We all know him as a risk taker, but they weren’t exactly complex schemes that one could argue tricked Rex.
I’d like to see his QB rating in 4th quarters alone, I bet it takes a hit. That’s when 4 of the 7 turnovers have occurred.
by Dammit Cerrato... on Oct 3, 2011 7:09 PM EDT reply actions
*Field vision more than seeing over bodies
by Dammit Cerrato... on Oct 3, 2011 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Rex's favorite play..
The Sack/fumble.
Rex is barely mediocre but he is able to keep us in games in quarters 1-3. He turns into a complete mess the deeper into the 4th quarter it gets.
This is very true
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
Good post
Gonna be plenty of bickering on here soon. Haha.
That picture of Armstrong being held is priceless. Take away the backdrop, and the football, and they could holding hands, hailing a cab in Times Square.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
You were right!
I had no idea what a can of worms I had just opened lol. My mistake trying to defend him.
Follow me on Twitter: @UkRedskin1 feel free to give suggestions on what you'd like to see broken down each week.
Another excellent Post
Altho I agree that at least two & maybe three of Rex’s INT.s were not his fault, I’ve always thought that statistic usually evened out as far as catches that DBs should have made. Grossmans decisions are sometimes poor but he does seem to be getting better at throwing the ball away when his WRs are covered.
I’ve always thought that statistic usually evened out as far as catches that DBs should have made
This is definitly true. There were at least 2-3 poor balls that should have been INT’s, that were just flat out dropped by DB’s.
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
Great Post!
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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Am I the only one wondering...
Why Kyle Shanahan is dialing up pass plays:
5 min left in game.
Nice Lead
Rex G. @ QB…
If that is not a run run run drain clock situation then i have no idea what is. This is two weeks in a row where KS is calling for an air attack when the clock needs to be bled…
by Elaw6 on Oct 3, 2011 8:23 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The whole league is pass happy... not an excuse, but just strange
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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I talked about this in the post
Kyle Shanahan has said that while they are only 1 score ahead, they feel the best way to win the game is try and score points and not worry so much about the clock (unless its under 2 mins). The play-action is actually a nice call in this regard because the Rams would have been thinking its an obvious run play to get the clock going and a good chance to catch them off guard.
Follow me on Twitter: @UkRedskin1 feel free to give suggestions on what you'd like to see broken down each week.
The play-action is actually a nice call
Until the pass goes in to the hands of a player not wearing burgundy and gold. Three capable RB’s and a monster stretch run game.
I know what your saying
and when he intercepted it, I was thinking the exact same thing “why aren’t we running the ball there?!?”. But the play actually does exactly what it was intended to do, it made Laurinaitis play in the box for the run, then have to turn and recover. Sometimes you just have to give credit to Laurinaitis for making a hell of a play.
Look at it if it was a complete pass. We gain 20 yards, plus whatever Moss runs on top of that. We have the ball around midfield, and even if we run the ball and go 3 and out after that, we punt and they have the ball on their 20 at best.
Follow me on Twitter: @UkRedskin1 feel free to give suggestions on what you'd like to see broken down each week.
We're giving the LB a lot of credit.
I haven’t seen the replay but from what I recall, I thought the ball could have come out a bit earlier. That may have prevented the INT. But again, I haven’t seen the replay. Even in the pic’s it looks like Moss is waiting for that pass.
HTTR!
the play action is not the right call when you are running all over them and they can not stop you
Kyle Shanahan’s deficiencies are far more harmful than Rex’s…but we all know Rex is not in the long term plans. If he were, they would have built a better line to protect him. (Basically, the attention the defense got is what the offense would have gotten).
by les boulez bomber on Oct 3, 2011 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
This statement
Kyle Shanahan’s deficiencies are far more harmful than Rex’s…
is what fans are really not talkin’ about, KS needs to cool out with those risks ‘especially’ if Rex is behind center. KS seems to not realize is that Schaub isn’t running the ‘O’ on the field.
Hopefully Mike will talk with his son in regards to ‘smarter’ play calling, regardless if you have any relationship or not.
by Big Spoon on Oct 4, 2011 5:18 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I disagree,
Kyle has to call the plays he think will succeed. He has to trust Rex to execute. I don’t think a play-caller can overly worry about who his QB is when he’s out there as it would give Rex no confidence whatsoever. Kyle has to show Rex he has trust in him to execute properly, even if he doesn’t believe in him.
Follow me on Twitter: @UkRedskin1 feel free to give suggestions on what you'd like to see broken down each week.
“Kyle has to call the plays he think will succeed.”
And you perfectly summed up my disagreement with you because I subscribe to the Super Bowl Winning, Hall of Fame, the man who sits on many football altars simple philosophy…stick with what is working until they stop it. (then make an adjustment).
You dont make an adjustment just to make an adjustment. Don’t fix what isn’t broken. There are a lot of cliches out there that sum it up. This is the same KS that single handedly gave away the Bucs game last year…after running for like 200 yards in the first half and running up a nice lead, three or so running plays in the second half while we watch the Bucs come back and win.
So not only was the play calling in that game self destructive, he didn’t learn from his play calling mistake. Fortunately, the Rams are in a free fall and bailed us out. I disagree with the rest of your comment too. What you wrote he shouldn’t do is the very definition of coaching and what separates good coaching from bad.- emphasizing the good while masking the weaknesses.
I don’t hate KS or all your views. I am simply noting that KS is making the mistakes that the top coaches don’t usually make. He over thinks things, tries to get too cute, and makes unnecessary adjustments when he should leave things alone and no adjustment when he should sometime. They couldn’t stop our run, and he should have been primarily running the ball in that situation. Why does that seem so obvious to me?
BTW- overall…this was an exceptional post!!! Really, really good =) thanks for taking the time
by les boulez bomber on Oct 4, 2011 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
but it looks like the Rams D did their homework on Kyle.
He just needs to run more at the end of games whether the D knows its coming or not. There’s a reason we’re called the Hogs.
HTTR!
Kyle is 100% correct
in try to WIN games, instead of not trying to loose them, which is basically what running the ball late in the 4th QTR is. It’s burned us before people, and you still see it burning teams each week.
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
except that we were running all over them
The pass is not by default more effective than the run. Kyle deciding to run on this first down does not equal us burning clock and then punting the ball. We should have been running the ball and expecting Torain to continue to be effective, leading us o. Another scoring drive to put us up 2 scores with little clock left.
We didn’t have to choose between either running down the clock with runs or scoring with the pass.
by RobtheRedskin on Oct 5, 2011 12:17 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You do realize what stacking the box with eight defenders means?
although the rams defense had been gashed all day, if they bring 8 defenders in the box, it’s going to be tough for any team to run against that. That’s what teams do when you are down late in the game, and you assume the other team wants to run out the clock.
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
The picture is right there above
There were 7 in the box…and even with 8, a deep pass is just plain foolish at that point based on our success running and clock management. It isnt even a close call…maybe audible to a quick pass if you see them stacked, but that was nowhere near the case.
Where the hell is Hankerson??
Is he hurt or was he just a good college player?
He's not hurt, just inactive
I guess he’s just not ready yet and Paul and others can play ST, while Hankerson likely can’t.
I have no problem with Hank learning the ropes, instead of just giving him the keys based on his draft position.
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
Yup
Hankerson clearly didn’t look ready in pre-season. WR’s generally take 2-3 season’s to transition into the NFL (unless they are a top 10 pick). I expect he’ll get some playing time when he’s proved in practice he deserves it. Supposedly he’s staying on after practice for extra coaching and reps, which show’s he’s trying to get there.
Follow me on Twitter: @UkRedskin1 feel free to give suggestions on what you'd like to see broken down each week.
I think Austin Pettis proved yesterday that some 3rd round rookies need to be eased into the league
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
I have a headache
Just from seeing that. Ouch!
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Oct 3, 2011 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
What a moron.
I like how Tim Ryan tried to spin it, “Boise State guys just don’t have any fear”
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
Height
I am wondering how much his height factored in to not seeing lbs in position on two of those picks. And I don’t care if you say an interception isn’t his fault. He also gets credit if he throws a two yard screen that goes for fifty and a td. Unless you want to use advanced stats to look at the whole picture, you can’t cherry pick a few plays to try to make a player look better or worse.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Oct 3, 2011 8:30 PM EDT reply actions
While that's true...
You could argue that on a 2 yard screen that goes for 50, a QB has done his job in the design of the play. Just like on either of those 2 mentioned INTs, Grossman did his job and got the ball into very catchable positions for the WR to make a play, and they for one reason or another didn’t.
Follow me on Twitter: @UkRedskin1 feel free to give suggestions on what you'd like to see broken down each week.
by UkRedskin on Oct 3, 2011 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Or
When the throw is off target and the receiver makes a great play to catch it. That long pass to Davis looks good in the stats and was a terrible throw. Also, the much better stat to consider than total turnovers is turnovers per called pass play. We all know where that stat is compared to top qbs
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Oct 3, 2011 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, all I was trying to say was
That Grossman hasn’t been quite as bad as some of the stick that he’s getting right now would suggest. But in counter to your point, you’ve said that you don’t care if an interception wasn’t his fault as he is still credited for it, yet you do care if a bad throw that is caught even though it’s credited to him?
Follow me on Twitter: @UkRedskin1 feel free to give suggestions on what you'd like to see broken down each week.
Saying it goes both ways
Can’t look at one and not the other. Rex turns it over on almost 5% of his attempts. Brady, with a higher year than normal for him is at three. Rogers at two. So yes a turnover machine.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Oct 3, 2011 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course it goes both ways,
that’s why football is a team game and there is a huge emphasis on team spirit.
There’s no point comparing Rex to Brady or Rodgers. Those two are probably the best 2 QB’s in the game right now, and we know Rex is nowhere near that. Nobody is arguing that he’s a great QB, I’m just saying the guy doesn’t deserve a lot of the bad press that he’s getting right now.
Follow me on Twitter: @UkRedskin1 feel free to give suggestions on what you'd like to see broken down each week.
But
Like EN’s said above, you have to also take into account poor balls that SHOULD have been INT’s, that were flat out dropped bt DB’s or LB’s. I seen some of them this year.
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
height is not an issue. QBs throw through passing lanes, they are not looking over linemen wearing helmets
Not that you want your QB small because he will probably get injured too often. But the size people crave helps them absorb hits more than find receivers.
by les boulez bomber on Oct 3, 2011 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Not Rex
because he’s always backpeadling when he throws. For him, height, and not stepping up in the pocket, is a huge issue.
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
I recapped KS reply to that very same question when he was asked recently. I don’t know the offense, but he does, and he said the QB looks through passing lanes, not over their heads.
What you are suggesting seems to not be about height either because I don’t think they want him throwing the ball backpedalling. So either he is not listening or the protection stinks. Being taller would just try to compensate for one or both of those mistakes- but is not the source of the problem. Why he is backpeddalling is the problem.
by les boulez bomber on Oct 4, 2011 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions
And how many of Rex's throws have been batted down?
Seems like he might lead the league in that category. Just wised he would use a lot more side steps to get a better line of vision. Brees does this very well and he’s also considered a short qb.
HTTR!
If you use advanced stats
And I don’t care if you say an interception isn’t his fault. He also gets credit if he throws a two yard screen that goes for fifty and a td. Unless you want to use advanced stats to look at the whole picture, you can’t cherry pick a few plays to try to make a player look better or worse.
You’ll have to add in all the almost picks that Rex throws that DB’s drop. That would REALLY show how bad he can be as a QB and basically QB stats really are generalized. I think it’s wrong for the QB to get blamed for the picks resulting from tipped passes, that’s on the receiver, but then they could add in obvious dropped interceptions as an honest assessment.
by DudleyDoright on Oct 4, 2011 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions
The fact is
after the Giants game the offense has been looking like a sinking ship. Grossman was awful against Dallas and pretty much gave away the game. That was 16 points for the offense. Then against the mighty Rams the Redskins scored 17 and Grossman did whatever he could to cost the skins that game. The only reason the skins didn’t lose is because the Rams tried even harder than Grossman to lose the game. They succeeded where Grossman failed.
Clearly a running game needs to be the focus of this team. And job 1 for the Skins is to replace Grossman in any way they can.
Every season its the defense that wins the games. Every season the Redskins come out under .500. They skated through 2 of their last victories and I am not celebrating being 3-1.
But we knew that coming into the season
Shanahan’s offence has always been built around the run game, we were always going to be run heavy. Coming into this season, we we’re expected to be top contenders for Andrew Luck. But we’re 3-1! We were never going to come out perfect as we knew we still had holes in the team. Defensively we’ve come together a lot better than I think anyone anticipated, and on offence our Oline has really gotten together and looks better each week. We knew what was coming with Rex, and we’ll just have to be content with that. People seem to forget that Grossman clearly out-played Beck in a ‘fair’ QB competition. Why do people think Beck will come in and magically do better?
Follow me on Twitter: @UkRedskin1 feel free to give suggestions on what you'd like to see broken down each week.
I am not calling for Beck
But after the first game, you couldnt get much worse. Rex is bottom five in the league the last three games.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Oct 3, 2011 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not calling for Beck.....
Yet. But even in victory Rex is pushing my buttons. We aren’t going to to play the Rams & Cards every weekend. An average to above average D would give Rex fits.
Isn’t Beck semi-mobile too? Im baffled at why Rex doesn’t tuck and run as opposed to running around with one hand on the ball looking over his shoulders. That is the kind of decission making that needs to improve
Beck is very mobile
and throws well in the run
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
…in pre-season games with limited starters and no game planning. lol I think he will get some PT at some part of the season. You can’t build a team around him either.
by les boulez bomber on Oct 4, 2011 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I remember when the skins were 6-2
and that turned in to an illusion. We are 3-1! 1 close win against a so so team that they survived and game against what has to be the worst team in the league. Now what happens during games 6-12? Not every team is going to be as bad as the Rams. If their receivers could catch the ball, that game might have been a different story. Great defense and an offense that struggles because Grossman is not really moving the team. I am all for a ground game.
by hambonejackson on Oct 3, 2011 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I've heard this a few times today
“Against the bigger teams we’ll get blown away” That may be so, but we have the Panthers, the Bills, the 49ers, the Dolphins, the Cowboys at home, the Seahawks and the Vikings all still to play, all of which are winnable judging by what we’ve seen so far. That’s 7 games that would put us to 10 wins. Not saying we’d win all 7 of those games, but did anyone expect us to be in with a chance of 10 wins before this season started? Be happy that we have that chance!
Follow me on Twitter: @UkRedskin1 feel free to give suggestions on what you'd like to see broken down each week.
Winnable games?
Not the way the offense is moving the ball. We lost to Dallas already. The fact is, if Washington played the Giants the way they played against the Rams, the Skins would have lost. Just have to hope the skins can be a good running team.
But about Beck. He just doesn’t know the offense as well as Grossman. Its not that Grossman is actually the better QB. Eventually Grossman will force the skins to play Beck unless the team can move the ball on the ground. Trying to ride Grossmans arm is a disaster in waiting. He is going to turn the ball over and eventually its those things that will cost them games. It cost them the Dallas game.
by hambonejackson on Oct 3, 2011 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Offense is moving the ball fine.
we are 15th in the league in yards/game average. 7th in rush yards/game average (so yes, the skins can be a good running team) and 20th in pass yards/game average. Problem is killing off games when we get into a lead.
Going by the records and by what I’ve seen from those teams and from us so far, I would definitely say those are winnable games.
Did everyone forget Beck’s third preseason games? He went 10/21 (47%) for 108 yards and an INT. Rating 43.4. Overall Beck in preseason had a QB rating of 74.7, Grossman is playing at 78.7 right now. This tells me that Beck wouldn’t be doing a whole lot better if he were in the game.
And can I just clarify here, I’m not saying Grossman is the answer, I’m not even a Grossman fan. I’m just saying he’s not been as bad as what a lot of people think. Hopefully we’ll see some of his better qualities when I post part 2 of this.
Follow me on Twitter: @UkRedskin1 feel free to give suggestions on what you'd like to see broken down each week.
All games are winnable
Its winning them. The fact is, we have not seen the worst of Grossman. We are seeing average Rex. Wait until he has one of his bad games.
by hambonejackson on Oct 3, 2011 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions
And what about when he has
one of his good games?
Follow me on Twitter: @UkRedskin1 feel free to give suggestions on what you'd like to see broken down each week.
That was the 1st game
he has not been the same since.He is on a plateau right now. He is not getting better, but he very capable of getting worse.
by hambonejackson on Oct 3, 2011 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Who's to say
Rex doesn’t come out of the bye week and plays like he did against the Giants? Truth is nobody knows.
Follow me on Twitter: @UkRedskin1 feel free to give suggestions on what you'd like to see broken down each week.
If the past serves as an indicator
I wouldn’t bet on it.
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
I have not been particularly pleased
With Grossman’s performance thus far this season. After reading this, I realize I might be too hard on him considering he has only had 1 terrible INT. He has led the team to a 3-1 start and I was defending him in Chicago when he was “just winning” in that SB year.
I think the reason myself and others are concerned about Grossman is the fact that he has thrown several(not sure how many) other balls that should have been picked to go along with these. He also does not pass the “eye test” on several other throws. His balls look soft and not very well delivered a lot of the times. I think that has a lot to do with the discontent in his performance so far. Beck in his first preseason game aced the “eye test” and I think a lot of us want to see more of it despite our 3-1 record.
It may be an illusion on both parts and I know the coaches know a lot more than we do, but it is hard when one QB looks so much more like a successful QB in this league than the other.
HEY! If you were a hotdog, would ya eat yourself?
To be honest
This is basically my view on the whole situation. But I really don’t think Beck was that good in pre-season after his first game (where he was pretty good, and my first blog post on this forum was on that performance).
I see exactly where your coming from though because it’s pretty much my view on it as I said.
Follow me on Twitter: @UkRedskin1 feel free to give suggestions on what you'd like to see broken down each week.
we just want to see it so we can get andrew luck
That’d be the only reason I’d put Beck in, Grossman is doing fine for now, Beck wont bring anything to the table other then a better bootleg.
Having said all that
I never thought we’d be 3-1, so great job so far by the team.
HEY! If you were a hotdog, would ya eat yourself?
Thank you sir.
Follow me on Twitter: @UkRedskin1 feel free to give suggestions on what you'd like to see broken down each week.
The fact is...
Even with all the turnovers, it is masking the fact that we are not putting the ball in the end zone enough. There are plenty of examples that point to this, but we have played four teams, none of them have better than an average defense. STL and ARZ are downright bad. And the NYG were missing half their starting line and secondary. With a better QB, we score more TDs. With a better OC, we score more TDs. With a better O-line, we score more TDs. At best, Rex is 1/3 the problem. And I know he is not a “good” QB. He is what one might think of when they think average…most plays are ok with a few good plays and a few bad plays.
This team would have been better offensively if they had simply kept JC, invested a little more in the O-line (like those draft picks we gave up for McNabb), and be ready to draft a franchise QB in the first round of 2012. We will still probably get that QB next year, but a rookie QB will get clobbered with our line right now. And our line still has a long way to go.
On the bright side….we are much better than last year!
by les boulez bomber on Oct 3, 2011 10:13 PM EDT reply actions
Great Stuff
Another great job. Very good analysis. I think that we tend to quickly judge Rex and get frustrated with the int’s and fumbles because he has such a reputation for making these mistakes. We should stick with who we brung to the dance and remember that Beck is not that great a QB either. The backup QB is always the darling of the fans. Still, 3-1 is pretty good right now.
by redskins-texas-fan on Oct 3, 2011 10:57 PM EDT reply actions
Santana Moss
That was a timing pattern to Moss, and when the LB bites on the playaction Rex needed to get the ball out quicker and with more zip. As you can see Moss was done with his route and waiting for that ball. It’s a timing play, and the ball needs to be hitting Moss as soon as he turns around. I believe the timing was off on that play more than Lauranitis making a great play, but I will give Lauranitis credit for snatching that ball anway. Great analysis, I love this weekly segment.
Rexy
Definitely has my support, as difficult as that may be. I still think he’s very DANGEROUS, particularly against teams with a good pass rush, which is why his lack of mobility scares the hell outta me in this Eagles game. Although it appears T. Cole will be out with an injury, which should slow that pass rush a bit. I still hope we run about 60% of the time against the Eagles.
These Rex Grossman apologists are funny.
What part do you not understand? Grossman is not mobile and has trouble throwing the deep ball. We have played against teams with beat up and back up players in their secondary. We should have been able to blow these teams out. If we had a qb that had the potential to make all the throws. Defenses only play part of the field against Grossman. We need to B.O.B. Bring on Beck !!!!!!!!
would that be
B.I.B?
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
by CJHutch on Oct 4, 2011 5:45 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Great breakdown
The only thing I will add that gives me pause is in regard to the pick where Rex threw off his back foot. My concern is that he does this a lot. He’s gotten away with a few that should have been picked which do not get accounted for in this assessment. He’s been around too long to keep forcing bad throws like that.
I love these breakdowns
That being said my wife (a Pats fan) laughed at me last year when we brought Sexy in as the backup. She laughed even more when he was named our starter after preseason. But he is the starter for the forseeable future. I do support him 100% and at no time during the season have I wanted Beck instead of Rexy. Beck is way worse than Rex.
I believe Shanahan pumped up Beck in the offseason to see if he could catch lightning in a bottle. It didn’t work so he went with the best option. People need to let it go.
When life gives you potatoes, make potato salad.
When life gives you shit, make shit salad.
Great Post
Uk, Great post I see that you look at things a little different then some of us. I’m on the us side of the ball. Granted we are 3-1 and I will take that into account, but let’s be honest. I can remember a certain QB who put up stats for us and we didn’t have a Oline but he kept getting off the ground and was getting blasted. It was only a few who supported him IE(LJP,Tiller56 and a few other.) But what funnie is these so call people who was Bashing JC for his play and he was always in the top 10 as far as yards and didn’t throw INT’s is happy with REX? COME ON MAN! You can’ t explain or give me one reason why we should be happy with this QB play. We should be thanking our Defense for keeping us in all of our games. I respect your post and view points.
Pretty cool in-depth analysis
I don’t know if there are any amateur leagues in your area, but have you ever thought of trying your hand as an offensive coach? You obviously have alot of interest in the strategy of the game.
Two are excused
But you’re being pretty easy on him for the others. Whether the mike made a good play or not, Rex threw it up to him to make the play. It wasn’t a clear shot and he took it anyway. And throwing off balance isn’t his fault, but deciding to throw off balance is his fault. He should know that his throw isn’t going to be as good and just take the three almost guaranteed points.
Getting hit from behind and fumbling isn’t always his fault. The line has to be somewhat responsible. But he has to get rid of the ball or run and realize that he’s not going to have all day to have his choice of receivers.
I’m not the coaching staff and I don’t see the players practice everyday, so I’m continuing to believe in the coaches that they see the better performance out of Grossman. It’s just a disappointment realizing our best QB averages two turnovers a game.
I watched and re-watched
every preseason game. I will tell you this. Post resumes aside, I would have taken Beck any day of the week over Grossman, eventhough Beck did miss some time because of the groin injury.
Point is, neither QB gives us a huge chance to win over the other. It’s our defense that gives us the chance to win football games. What Beck does give us over Grossman, is the ability to run and execute every part of our offensive to its fullest. With Grossman, this offense is limited in what they can do. With Beck under center, we can call plays that Grossman simply cant make.
Please, raise you hand if you think Rex is good at the play-action bootleg. Please also raise you hand if you think Kyle’s offense uses a lot of these plays. Again, raise your hand if ou think Rex throws well on the run. Kyle loves to get his QB outside the pocket and have them throw on the run. Anyone ever watch Matt Schaun play? Do you see how many shots he takes down the field on the deep ball? Now watch us play. Do you see how many shots we yake down the field with the deep ball? Do you think it matters to have a guy who can stretch the field off of play-action? I sure do, and Rex is not that guy.
Also, in college(and I’m not counting his time in Miami as a rookie), Beck was known to be deadly accurate. So now you combine strong arm, mobility and accuracy, and you have what is needed to run this offense at its peak. Slow, fat, immobile, weak arm and poor decision making are not getting it done.
Thank heavens for this defense! Thats all I can say.
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
Well the Shanny's saw those preseason games too
They should know better than any of us what they have in Grossman and Beck. They must have some reason to give Rex the nod. I completely agree that Beck’s mobility would add another facet to our offense, but there must be something about him that concerns the coaches. Otherwise, you’d think Beck would be starting now.
I agree that we don't have a really good option at QB
But I’d still rather see Beck starting because I don’t see much upside for Grossman.
People like to focus on Grossman's statistics too much I think
We’re 3-1. We’re finding ways to finish games that we would have dropped in the past. The Cowgirls game was a heart breaker, but it was probably a good wake up call.
While Rex’s QB rating might not be that impressive, his poise has been. He didn’t let those turnovers affect his game. He’s keeping this team competitive. Maybe if we go on a 4 game losing streak, I’ll start wondering what we have in Beck. But until then, the main stat I’m looking at is wins and losses, and so far Rex is doing alright in that category.
I don't understand why people assume Beck would fail
And don’t say his track record because Rex had only one decent year…
First off, I am not calling to bring in Beck. I respect and stand by the decision the coaches made. But, I don’t see where all the vitriol for Beck is coming from either. He’d be our starter if Rex went down and I honestly think Beck would provide the same number of W’s that Rex will get us.
I truly believe both our QB’s could run our Offense and that’s all we could ask for with whom we have.
HTTR!
Just remember, we were 6-2 one year
and finished 8-8. Don’t get too enamored by this record. This team has a lot of work to do to improve and it starts with REX.
HTTR!
Right, it's clear what most views on this topic are.
I’m thinking there wouldn’t be much of a point to look at what Rex has done well, a lot of people seem to have made up their mind on him. Maybe I should move onto something else.
Follow me on Twitter: @UkRedskin1 feel free to give suggestions on what you'd like to see broken down each week.
actually
I’d like to see it. I am DEFINITELY not a Grossmanite, but I would like to see a breakdown of his really good plays. (Maybe you’re bailing on it cuz you couldn’t find any? Haha. Kidding)
As I’ve said time and again, I never wanted Rex here. However, now that he IS here, and apparently will be for the foreseeable future, I’d like to see what types of things he does exceptionally well. I’m not trying to take digs at Rex, but i just can’t recall any specific plays where i thought to myself “Wow, that was an amazing play”.
By the way, as I’m sure you realize, the feeling around here on Rex isn’t all negative. From what I’ve seen, I think most people in Rex’s corner are “tired of hearing about his turnovers”, which means they may have seen the title to this post and decided against opening it. Perhaps a more “Rex friendly” post would draw that side of the fence.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
Haha, no there is plenty of good film.
The point of this post was to show the people who really hate Grossman that he’s not that bad. I realize that a fair amount of people are supportive of Rex, but what I’ve seen from the reaction to this post is that most people seem to be set in there opinion of him. They either are ok with supporting him and putting up with his bad side, or they flat out hate the guy.
If there’s enough people that want to see it, I’ll do a breakdown of his good stuff, but I have a feeling that everyone is kinda over the topic of Rex Grossman, at least for a couple days anyway. So my time may be better spent looking at the run game or the pass rush (or whatever everyone else wants to see).
Follow me on Twitter: @UkRedskin1 feel free to give suggestions on what you'd like to see broken down each week.
I say write whatever you want to.
you do an excellent job of it. Personally, I’d like to see some in-depth analysis of our O line both in pass pro and run blocking, but that’s just me.
The main problem with Pass-Pro
is that its difficult to really see exactly who is meant to pick up each person. You can look at each player’s individual technique (which would be a very long post lol), but it’s hard to know who each person is meant to pick up on some plays.
I was thinking of 3 things for tomorrow. Finish off the Grossman analysis, breakdown the pass-rush, or look at the run game and each RB.
Follow me on Twitter: @UkRedskin1 feel free to give suggestions on what you'd like to see broken down each week.
Yeah, I guess I shoulda said
But don’t write something based on what one guy wants, even if that guy is me.
No, seriously, you do a great job. I wish I had the patience to break down the games like this. But 3 screaming kids and a screaming wife, coupled with my extreme A.D.D would never allow me to do what you do. Aw, who am I kidding? Even when I was alone in my padded white room I couldn’ta done this is in a million years.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
Haha, don't worry dude.
I wouldn’t write something based on one opinion, but I get the feeling everyone seems to be over talking about Grossman for a while, hence why I’m not sure if I should look at something else or just finish this off and get it out of the way.
Follow me on Twitter: @UkRedskin1 feel free to give suggestions on what you'd like to see broken down each week.
Rex
I was on the Beck bandwagon in pre-season, mainly due to knowing what youre getting with Rex and having nothing to lose with Beck under center.
However, I dont know what people are hoping to gain from ditching your QB at 3-1. The Skins have moved away from controversy this season so why start one with nothing to gain? If Beck was substantially better, he wouldve won the job. The risk to team chemistry and focus would cost far more than John Beck could ever hope to give us
I understand the hate but
I think some of us are against Rex to much. I agree Beck is better at some aspects of the game than Rex but obviously the coaches thought Rex would be a better option than Beck and I will stick with there decision. I do think Beck will be the QB at some point and I think the coaches will decide when that needs to happen. But as someone else on here posted say you take Rex out, who is winning currently, and put Beck in and Beck is worse. So then yoo just turn back around to Rex and say just kidding go back out there with no confidence that we believe in you or in yourself. But I can definately see Beck doing good as well. It’s a tough decision that you leave alone until Rex plays worse and is losing games.
I realize this comment won't be seen by many
But let me know what you want tomorrow’s breakdown to be on. Do you want me to finish off the Grossman stuff, look at the Run game and our trio of RBs, our Pass-rush? I’m open to whatever will get people talking. Post in here or tweet me on Twitter, @UkRedskin1.
Follow me on Twitter: @UkRedskin1 feel free to give suggestions on what you'd like to see broken down each week.
i wouldn't mind seeing a break down of the pass rush
If I am not mistaken, I FINALLY saw Rak using some inside moves and some spin moves and not just the bull rush. I was very encouraged:
by RobtheRedskin on Oct 5, 2011 12:47 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
yeah
I’d like to see the nuances of Ryan Kerrigans game.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
finish Rex
I know Rex does well against the blitz (about time we can hurt people for blitzing). I am very interested in your break down of what he does well.
I also love the strategy of football and enjoy your posts immensely. Just curious, how do you get your game shots? do you pull the video off your DVR? what program do you use to draw lines/circles?
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