History shows only draft a QB in the 2nd round if you like Tavaris Jackson and Chad Henne
by jmpalomo on Oct 27, 2011 11:03 AM EDT
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| 5 | 2 | 3 | 35 | Andy Dalton | Bengals | Texas Christian | |
| 6 | 2 | 4 | 36 | Colin Kaepernick | 49ers | Nevada |
| 3 | 2 | 16 | 48 | Jimmy Clausen | Panthers | Notre Dame |
| 4 | 2 | 12 | 44 | Pat White | Dolphins | West Virginia |
| 3 | 2 | 25 | 56 | Brian Brohm | Packers | Louisville | |
| 4 | 2 | 26 | 57 | Chad Henne | Dolphins | Michigan |
| 3 | 2 | 4 | 36 | Kevin Kolb | Eagles | Houston | |
| 4 | 2 | 8 | 40 | John Beck | Dolphins | Brigham Young |
| 4 | 2 | 17 | 49 | Kellen Clemens | Jets | Oregon | |
| 5 | 2 | 32 | 64 | Tarvaris Jackson | Vikings | Alabama State |
| 2 | 2 | 1 | 32 | Drew Brees | Chargers | Purdue |
So you want to trade down to the second round to get a quarterback? Here is the list of all 2nd round draft picks for the past 10 years. Only one is a quality Starter, Hall of Famer to be Drew Brees.But he does not count because he was cut from San Diego after his 3rd year with concerns about his health. He was 10-17 as a starter there. And every team could have signed him. New Orleans was smart enough to sign the Free Agent Brees. The jury is out on Dalton, Kolb and even John Beck. Kolb is with his second team and Beck is on his 3rd team.
The average of all these players is probably Chad Henne and Tarvaris Jackson; guys you really do not want starting for you but because you have to have a starter they are all you've got.
Do yourself a favor and use your first round pick on a Quarterback. Your odds are alot better of getting a good quarterback.
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What??
Brees wasn’t cut, he signed as a free agent after playing in San Diego for 5 years (starting four of them).
He didn’t play really as a rookie, and a really nice 2nd year with the team. But in year three he struggled some and was a little banged up. The team had the top pick and made the Manning-Rivers swap. Brees was entering the final year of his deal and I think most people thought he’d play it out and then they’d move on to Rivers. Except he had a Pro Bowl year and led the team to the playoffs. The Chargers put the franchise tag on him, bringing him back. He had another great year and the Chargers were a winning team. He got injured in the last game of the year, and that prevented San Diego from Franchising him, so they decided to just go with Rivers. At no point in time was he cut.
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by Steve Shoup on Oct 27, 2011 11:31 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Oops. I missed the 2 years. BUT he was an unrestricted free agent.
He Blew up on another team and not the team he was drafted by.
Chargers offered him $50 mil but Dolphins and Saints offered more
He was a Pro Bowl QB before coming to NO.
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by Parks Smith on Oct 27, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah he was unrestricted b/c of the injury, but that didn't mean he was bad or not wanted
3 of his 4 years as a starter he put up really good numbers
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by Steve Shoup on Oct 27, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Jake Plummer, Kordell Stewart were both 2nd rounders
This isn’t a very good argument, I would guess that the success rate is similar to the 1st round. That is what you have to look at.
Schaub and McCoy are “recent” 3rd rounders
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I'd even argue that the success rate is likely similar to every other position in the NFL relative to round
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by Parks Smith on Oct 27, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
not to mention if you miss on a 2nd round QB its not the end of the world
but if you miss on a 1st round guy, particularly a top 5 or 10 guy (esp. if you traded up for him) it can set your team back for years, since you undoubtedly passed on a number of other elite players.
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by Steve Shoup on Oct 27, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
So if we go back ONLY 9 years (removes Brees) the only QUALITY Starter drafted after the First Round is:
Matt Schaub
That’s it? One guy?
Nope
- Fitzpatrick
- Romo
- Cassel
just to name a few
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by Parks Smith on Oct 27, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Fitzpatrick- 7th rounder, Cassel- 7th rounder, Romo- Undrafted
So in the entire NFL right now.
All “Quality” Starters are First Round Draft Picks except for 1 3rd rounder, 2 7th rounders and an Undrafted Free Agent.
Brady, maybe the best ever, 6th rounder
by StephanHart on Oct 27, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats not what I'm saying
I understand your point: Top round players succeed more than later round players.
But you are implying that just about every QB drafted outside of the 1st round has been a failure, which is completely false.
And get this concept through your head: teams can’t afford to spend 1st round draft picks on a QB year after year, which means you get few precious chances to draft a top-prospect QB, which means you had better be very sure of your selection and not be drafting a qb in the first round just to DRAFT A QB IN THE FIRST ROUND
by StephanHart on Oct 27, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
My post only had to do with 2nd round draft picks
I’m basically saying if you like Tavaris Jackson and Chad Henne, then that’s the type of player you will most likely end up with if you draft a QB in the 2nd round.
How do you figure?
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by Parks Smith on Oct 27, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Look at the QB's from the past 10 years taken in the 2nd round
They are mostly trash to barely serviceable. Only Brees has led a team to the playoffs and he was drafted a zillion years ago.
My point is don't wait until the 2nd round to draft your quarterback of the Future.
Go get a better quality player in the first round.
Okay
So what do you think the Redskins should do for the upcoming draft?
We will most likely NOT be in position to draft any of the Tier 1 QB’s, so what would you propose?
by StephanHart on Oct 27, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
You can't say that definitively that's the whole point
You’re acting as if a 1st round QB is a 100% guarantee to be better than anyone we draft in 2nd round. Which is totally false. You can apply it to any other position in the NFL.
It’s also totally dependent on the make up of the draft, you can’t put the draft in a vacuum and that’s what you’re doing.
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by Parks Smith on Oct 27, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Not entire NFL you said the past 9 years...
That Brett Favre guy wasn’t a 1st rounder. Neither was Joe Montana.
Hasslebeck was a 6th rounder but obviously doesn’t fit into your timeframe. I think 12 of the starting QBs at this point were not 1st rounders in the NFL
Do you want Alex Smith? He was the first overall pick.
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by Parks Smith on Oct 27, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah. I'll Aaron Rodgers who was also taken in the first round of the same draft
But Alex Smith’s team has the 2nd best record in the entire NFL right now
What's your point?
You just proved how a serviceable QB can succeed with a solid team around them.
Campbell was taken the same year, I don’t get where you’re going?
Sometimes you get Rodgers, other times you get Russell.
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by Parks Smith on Oct 27, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
The Draft is a Crap-Shoot
Thats the point…you can draft a guy #1 overall (Alex Smith) or at #24 overall (Rodgers) or at #34 overall (Henne) or at #167 overall (Brady).
You never know exactly what you’re going to get.
The best thing for the Redskins to do is to address the QB situation using sound scouting so that, no matter which round they take a QB, they are fairly confident they got a solid player
by StephanHart on Oct 27, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
+1
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by Parks Smith on Oct 27, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
The Last 6 Hall of Fame Inducted Quarterbacks
Troy Aikman- First Round Draft Pick
Dan Marino- First Round Draft Pick
Steve Young- First Round Draft Pick
Warren Moon- Undrafted (No black Quarterbacks Era)
Jim Kelly- First Round Draft Pick
John Elway- First Round Draft Pick
I don’t see any 2nd round draft picks on this list.
You're right man, no matter who we draft in the 1st round they are absolutely guaranteed to go to the HOF
It’s so simple, WTF was I thinking?
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by Parks Smith on Oct 27, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
HOF?
You just posted before that Alex Smith is a serviceable QB who is managing the 29ers well.
Which is it? Do the Redskins need the next HOF QB or a game manager?
by StephanHart on Oct 27, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I want a Hall of Famer like Andrew Luck.
3 of the 6 Hall of Famers listed were overall #1 picks in the first round.
Which just happens to be where Andrew Luck is going to be drafted.
Or we can take a chance and draft the next Chad Henne or Tavaris Jackson in the 2nd round.
Luck
Yes, we all WANT Andrew Luck.
We will not be able to get Luck, or the other Top QBs, so I ask you again, what do we do for a QB in the upcoming draft.
I can say that
Even if any team wants to trade the #1 pick, the Redskins don’t have the ammo to go up and get him
by StephanHart on Oct 27, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Really?
We have all our first round and 2nd round draft picks in the next few years.
Trent Williams
Brian Orakpo
Ryan Kerrigan
Laron Landry
We have plenty of ammunition. The key is Trent Williams. Rams will not trade unless they get a stud Left Tackle
which Trent Williams is not
he has the potential, but thus far in their career’s Roger Saffold has out played him.
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exactly
so collectively he’s been better than Trent…and healthier
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by Steve Shoup on Oct 27, 2011 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
How did Demarcus Ware fare against Trent Williams
SHUTOUT!
That’s his potential.
Trent’s going to be a great one.
oops
someone only watched the first half
by sofutomygaha on Oct 28, 2011 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I think that Trent did pretty well against Ware,
it was when Ware starting lining up on our right side & began abusing JB that he really became effective. I thought that TW actually did a pretty good job against him.
yeah sacks aren't the only factor
The Redskins got more sacks than the Panthers last sunday, but guess which QB was under more pressure
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And then what team do we have left??
if we trade say Trent and our 1st rounders for the next 3 years??
Also Landry is a free agent, we could Franchise him and trade him, but I doubt there is a market for that.
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Awesome Idea
Lets trade away our entire draft and all of our already scarce talent for a QB who hasn’t played a down of professional football.
This method has worked beautifully for the Redskins in the past….SB here we come
by StephanHart on Oct 27, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
the problem is even if he is the greatest QB ever we'd never know
b/c he will get KILLED here
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I'm sorry but a lot of that is leadership and confidence
The colts have better receivers, and O-line than we do
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Their record (Big Fat Zero Wins) doesn't say so
Is their receivers better because Peyton is throwing to them?
Is their O-Line better because Peyton releases the ball quickly?
So QB's are the only position
and we don’t need an offensive line, WR’s or anyone else…awesome logic
But if that is the case why did Donovan McNabb have a good year in 2009 and was down right awful last year??
Why did Jay Cutler perform in Denver, but can’t get the ball off in Chicago?
If you don’t think Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Garcon, and Collie are better than what we have I don’t know what to say.
The problem with the Colts is they are built a certain way. That defense is meant to rush the passer, and play with a big lead. Now they have to play from behind and constantly deal with the run. That offense is built on quick running and passing which they don’t do anymore.
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I'm guessing Gaffney is available in quite a few as well
there is no doubt that Wayne is better with Manning or any decent QB. But the point is if you put a Jason Campbell or Kyle Orton on that team they probably win 7 or 8 games.
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i'm not saying that they aren't far better with Manning
but he’s got pieces around him and even did as a rookie, that is something the Skins wouldn’t if they traded the world to go get Luck
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okay...so??
they have had a really tough schedule so far, and you are comparing Peyton to Curtis Painter…I’m saying if the Colts had a decent 2nd option (which knowing Manning’s injury they should have). They’d have a few wins right now.
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Assumptions
How can you ASSUME the Redskins with Luck would be on par with the Colts with Manning?
by StephanHart on Oct 27, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
When was Andrew Luck inducted into the Hall of Fame?
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YOU'VE NEVER SEEN HIM PLAY!
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I know he even admitted it on the other post. haha
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No. I said I did not see him for a full 4 quarters
You kinda assume that in order to be an expert that you have to watch a player for 4 quarters.
So I only watch a half here and there. I don’t care about Pac 10 football.
and the Redskins finish in the basement the next 3 years only to watch their picks go to St. Louis
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by Steve Shoup on Oct 27, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yup
Do you know what we would have to pay to get Luck? We wouldnt have a draft for 4 years
Think we have a dearth of talent now? Just wait
Do you like the Pac 12?
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Shanny's History
Win 2 Superbowls with a 1st round pick Quarterback in John Elway.
Be a big disappointment year after year with a 2nd round draft pick in Jake Plummer.
I am sure he would like to go back to the Superbowl
I'm starting to think you just don't watch football in general
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yeah...completely ignoring the beast offesive line, Terrell Davis, Shannon Sharpe, Ed Mcaffery, and Rod Smith
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Ed McCaffery had 1,000 yard years after john elway
I thought that was impossible without a QB
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Moon wasn't drafted b/c he was pretty average in college
teams wanted him to switch positions. Now there weren’t that many black QB’s but the same year Moon went undrafted was the year that Doug Williams was drafted in the first round.
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a 1st round qb is a crap shoot
literally, your odds are similar. 50-50 isn’t far off from your odds of getting something Campbellian-or-better in round 1.
And there’s a reason we call the late round guys lottery tickets… Tom Brady and Tony Romo are those crazy old ladies you saw on TV who hit powerball.
by sofutomygaha on Oct 27, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude, no one is arguing you have a better chance in the 1st round.
And that wasn’t your argument to begin with. Your argument was that we definitively get a franchise QB in 1st round no matter what, and that if we draft in the 2nd round then we’re guaranteed to get Tavaris Jackson or Chad Henne.
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by Parks Smith on Oct 27, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
facepalm
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by Parks Smith on Oct 27, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Same Question
Then what do we do about a QB next year if BEck doesnt work out?
by StephanHart on Oct 27, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hasselbeck, Dalton, McCoy, Orton
are all better than quite a few first rounders. also closing the book on Kevin Kolb is premature. He’s looked better than Mark Sanchez (not to say that is too hard to do).
Also in recent memory, you have Favre, Warner, Delhomme, Trent Green, Brunell, Rich Gannon etc.
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by Steve Shoup on Oct 27, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yeah but you can't even compare any of the guys from the last two drafts
and Pat White was a joke, he had no business being a 2nd rounder or tried as a QB. The Dolphins thought he’d be perfect for their Wildcat formation, that teams quickly figured out.
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by Steve Shoup on Oct 27, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So, 1 out of the past 10 second round QB's is a HOFer?
That doesn’t seem like terrible odds at all. If I’m a GM drafting any position at all, at any place in the draft, and you told me I had a 10% chance of selecting a hall of famer, I’d be happy with that.
Look, I get your point: that drafting a top QB prospect, one that usually goes in the first round, yields better results; however, I think the recent history of 2nd round QBs shows that you can find mostly serviceable QBs in the 2nd, and perhaps some very good QB talent.
Brees will be in the Hall, and the jury is still out on Dalton, Kaepernick, Kolb, and Beck
Truthfully, I'd throw Clausen in the jury is still out bunch...
He was thrown under the bus and was just on a terrible team last year.
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by Parks Smith on Oct 27, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe
I havent watched him play alot since Notre Dame, but I thought he was mediocre then and I’ve heard he has been HORRIBLE in the NFL.
Could be circumstantial
by StephanHart on Oct 27, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the issue is he wasn't ready
so many of the top quarterbacks in the league got time to sit and develop and learn the game. Sometimes when you start a guy too early you ruin him.
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by Steve Shoup on Oct 27, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Colt McCoy as well....
I was kinda pullling for him to come here.
"Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say."-Robert Hunter
You're acting as if a 1st round QB is a sure thing.
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by Parks Smith on Oct 27, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes we Agree
But that doesn’t mean you can’t identify a later round guy that you believe in to be your QB of the future…some of those guys work out
by StephanHart on Oct 27, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
What are the percentages?
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by Parks Smith on Oct 27, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
See response in response to those numbers.
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by Parks Smith on Oct 27, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
and wreck a franchise when they bust
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Yea like that Dan Marino and Jim Kelley guy you were talking about before.
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hell i'd be thrilled if we got that level of talent
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So would anyone
Parks’ point was that a HOF QB does not mean Super Bowl Championships
by StephanHart on Oct 27, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
to be fair, the franchise that drafts them is usually already a wreck
by sofutomygaha on Oct 27, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
that's what I mean
so a bad pick on a 1st round qb doesn’t wreck anything. It fails to fix it.
by sofutomygaha on Oct 27, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
but it sets them back
how much better position would the Raiders have been in, if they drafted Joe Thomas, Calvin Johnson or Adrian Peterson instead of Jamarcus Russell. And it isn’t hindsight all were considered in the mix for the top pick.
The issue is that the hype machine for offensive players (particularly QB’s is so high). Look at the Texans, everyone said they were crazy for passing up on Reggie Bush and Vince Young, but they made the best choice and were 100% right.
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I think it IS hindsight, though, and your example is apropos
Tackle prospects are relatively safe, and Joe Thomas would have been a good pick, but remember they had just drafted the Outland Trophy Winning best Tackle prospect since Orlando Pace in Robert Gallery one year before. They had also watched the Lions draft a slew of can’t miss WR prospects, most of them named Williams.
The truth is, the bust rate for running backs is about the same as it is for quarterbacks. The bust rate for wide receivers is almost twice that.
The Raiders badly needed a quarterback, and Russell and Quinn were their best shots. Most pundits, at least, favored Russell, who was coming off of not only great workouts but an amazing game in the Sugar Bowl.
In context, Russell wasn’t a particularly risky choice. You can’t say the Raiders made a bad choice without the luxury of hindsight!!!!
by sofutomygaha on Oct 27, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
do you remember all of the groans, by the way
when the Lions used a top pick on Calvin Johnson, yet another wide receiver.
Remember how we couldn’t believe they hadn’t learned their lesson from Mike Williams, Roy Williams, and Charles Rogers??
by sofutomygaha on Oct 27, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree
I hated the Russell pick for them, he was way too hyped. Robert Gallery was actually drafted three years earlier and in 2007 the year that Thomas was drafted, Tom Cable (Raiders oline coach at the time) made the decision to move Gallery inside.
And i agree about the bust rates, the problem is Adrian Peterson and Calvin Johnson weren’t the hype machines that so many of these top guys are. Johnson was obvious to be even better than Larry Fitzgerald. And Peterson was such a strong runner with balance, only injury could ruin his career. Russell was never challenged in the Raiders eyes, and they fell in love with his arm and athletic ability.
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yes, but it sets a team back farther
the problem is these teams with no talent around them, offensive line help, or a defense to give them good field position starts these kids off from day one and say “go be Manning”…when in reality the Colts invested a ton in their offense in the years prior (and after Manning).
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This isn't exactly what you're looking for, but
If you define bust as “was a starter in the league for less than 1 full season,” I get the following:
1st round: 53% bust
2nd round: 80% bust
3rd round: 82% bust
4th and later: ~90% bust
of course, there’s a difference between a starter and a quality starter, but I’m not going to go through and figure out a good place to draw the line
good numbers...
I think it would taper off, like you were implying. 1st rounders are usually given more of a long term opportunity just b/c of their draft slot.
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by Parks Smith on Oct 27, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a great point.
draft slot and the fact that they tend to be drafted by teams without other good options
by sofutomygaha on Oct 27, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
unfortunately that's not a good measure b/c 1st round QB's get more opportunities
For instance:
JaMarcus Russell, J.P. Losman, Rex Grossman, Harrington, Carr, Ramsey, etc.
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by Steve Shoup on Oct 27, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll come up with something better later if I have time.
What’s a good, simple measure? 3+ years starting? wins? a careeer 60% completions? a passer rating over 75 or so?
by sofutomygaha on Oct 27, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I would rank completion % and rating, plus Yards per attempt all higher than wins
For example Mark Sanchez has a ton of wins, but his completion,%, YPA and rating have all been awful
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to be clear, you would call sanchez a bust at this point (or he is headed that way)?
by sofutomygaha on Oct 27, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe to harsh
but you would definitely say he’s not a “hit”… if someone asks “was the Sanchez pick successful” you wouldn’t answer with an unmitigated yes the way you would if we were talking about, say Donovan McNabb
by sofutomygaha on Oct 27, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Personally I'd say he is a bust
If he was on some bad team putting up these numbers i’d say he’s ‘heading that way’ or ‘not a hit’. But he’s played behind an offensive line that features two all-pro talents (and yes Mangold has been hurt most of the year, but still the majority of Sanchez’s games he has had him) and a number of other very good linemen. He’s had good receivers plus TE Keller, and good backs. He’s backed by one of the best defensive and special teams units in the league. He gets great field position and is almost never in a shootout situation.
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every rookie qb ever has to be jealous of mark Sanchez
I thought the same thing when he came into the league. That guy gets to jump in behind Ferguson, Mangold, Faneca, and Damian Woody… oh, and Tony Richardson in there too??? Oh, and you say he’ll be throwing to Jericho Cotchery, Braylon Edwards, and Dustin Keller, eh?
Has any rookie QB ever had it better from day one than Mark Sanchez?
by sofutomygaha on Oct 27, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe only Ben Roethlisberger (and they were hoping to let him sit)
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upcoming busts...
Cousins, Foles, and Tannehill unless drafted by the Eagles, Patriots, and Bills…
I don't think Tannehill's going to bust, but it all depends on situation
I’m not a fan of Cousins or Foles either
by Dammit Cerrato... on Oct 27, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Wes Bunting just posted:
#Redskins should be looking at Ryan Tannehill from #TexasA&M and RGIII from #Baylor
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and that is why Wes Bunting is the man
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by Steve Shoup on Oct 27, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea definitely my go to draft guy.
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by Parks Smith on Oct 27, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Well Tannehill will not be a bust...
RGIII will be the greatest Redskin of all-time if we draft him
Let's trade out of the 1st round, and draft:
Rd 2 – Ryan Tannehill, QB, Texas A&M
Rd 2 – Jeff Fuller, WR, Texas A&M
Rd 3 – Coryell Judie, CB, Texas A&M
They can buddy up with Paul, Helu, and Gomes.
by Dammit Cerrato... on Oct 27, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
haha an all (former) Big 12 team
when you add in Trent and Chester (Brown better be off the roster)
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I'll take Drew Brees
Aaron Rodgers came close. Just because they’re 2nd rounders doesn’t mean anything more than they weren’t as highly touted. Plenty of 1st rounders wind up being turds too. I’m a big believer in who you draft, not where.
That Joe Montana guy was a 3rd rounder.
by Dammit Cerrato... on Oct 27, 2011 12:46 PM EDT reply actions
Well my theory is...
Even though I never followed Brees in college or knew about him then, but I think he had 1st round talent, but slipped to the 2nd round due to his height.
yea, can't put too much stock in the numbers!
I’m with him that more 2nd rounders bust than others, but that wouldn’t make me shy away from grabbing a guy if our coaches scouted him well enough to believe he was “the guy”
by Dammit Cerrato... on Oct 27, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it was b/c of his mole
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
by Parks Smith on Oct 27, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
my bad... I do remember the first time I ever heard of Brees was the SI college preview edition
when he was at Purdue. They had a bunch of other dudes on the team draw the birthmark on their face with eye black. Ever since then I’ve been rooting for the little guy.
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
Twitter: @RVAparks Check it out for the latest Redskins news and opinions
I think it was height, and the fact that he played at Purdue
and they were a good but not great team under him.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Jmpalomo
I gather from your discussion that you believe Andrew Luck should be the Redskin’s #1 target in the upcoming draft, is this correct?
Excellent Draft Strategy (Sarcasm)
Just start with the QB Mel Kiper says is best, and then work your way down his list, giving up whatever you have to in order to get the best QB everyone says is available.
I hope your real name isn’t Bruce Allen
he meant signing him in FA, but really it was Gruden
Bruce Allen doesn’t draft these players it is Mike shanahan. Allen is the guy who facilitates the trades etc.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
again it was Gruden
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Oct 27, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So how can Gruden sign Brad Johnson when Johnson was already in Tampa Bay when Gruden came?
Brad Johnson was the starting Quarterback in 2001
John Gruden became Coach in 2002
Give Bruce Allen his props!
sorry then it was Tony Dungy
Allen isn’t the personnel guy, never has been
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
what are you talking about??
Bruce Allen even admits he’s not the personnel guy
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
by Steve Shoup on Oct 27, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
there's really no argument to be had here.
First round quarterbacks clearly have a better success rate. Not because they’re drafted in the first round, but because they have first round talent. In addition, the main reason a first round QB bust has wrecked franchises in the past is gone with the rookie wage scale; no more tying up $50 million guaranteed for an unproven prospect.
If we truly want a potentially great quarterback, we have to identify the top talents, find the guy that fits us best and do whatever it takes to go get him. We simply can NOT sit and wait for whatever scraps fall from the elite teams’ table.
by tuckwell on Oct 27, 2011 1:14 PM EDT via iPhone app reply actions
no what has wrecked them has been 3-fold
the cost of the pick (but plenty of mid-late 1st round busts who didn’t cost near as much)
the cost of any sort of trade up to get them
and what other players were still on the board
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
that totally depends on various factors
You can throw out the “other player” bit, because that only applies if you’re one or two players away from contending. As for trading up, that’s so complex, it can’t be quantified and all we can discuss are opinions. Bottom line, the only negative we can quantify was solved by the rookie pay scale.
by tuckwell on Oct 28, 2011 1:19 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
i disagree about the players
there are plenty of instances where teams drafted QB’s that just simply weren’t ready (or they ended up putting them in a bad situation). The problem with these debates is we are treating them like that QB is the one and only QB for that team. LIke somehow there won’t be any better fits in the future.
Let’s use Mark Sanchez as an example: The Skins were apparently high on Sanchez and in talks to trade up to get him. Let’s say that by some ‘miracle’ he lasted to the 13th pick.and the Redskins picked him instead of Orakpo. How much worse off would this team be?? We still wouldn’t have a Franchise QB…and we wouldn’t have a stud rush LB.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
It sounds like many are back to waiting for
that “can’t miss” franchise “perfect fit for our system” QB to somehow fall into our laps. If we are ever to become an elite team we need to get an elite QB, not a mediocre, flawed signal caller who can get us to being 8 & 8 or 9 & 7. We might get lucky with a player like Ryan Tannehill or RGIII but most likely they are going to be projects that might or might not pan out. I would not trade a draft pick for any QB in this draft other than Andrew Luck & for him I would give up whatever it took. Being timid or afraid to make a mistake will keep us behind the teams that see greatness & reach out & take it.
+10000000000000000000000000000
thats right…. draft Luck if you can and if your worried about him getting hurt because of what u gave up to get him then let him sit and be that much better when u finally decide its “safe” to start him… exceptional QB’s arent a dime a dozen………..
last i checked we were good as far as the cap is concerned…. use some of that money to make sure Luck would be “safe”…. we would be in even more of a good cap position if we gave up a couple big names to draft him….
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