Shanaplan Turns to Beck-Up Plan Earlier Than Expected
by Kevin Ewoldt on Oct 20, 2011 12:00 PM EDT
in Redskins Analysis
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PrintShanny had mentioned after the Eagles loss that Beck had got some work in during the BYE week. Of course, it's up to us if "got some work in" means Beck actually took snaps against our 1st team defense or it means he was chauffering Mike Shanahan to and from the tanning salon. QB changes as we know split locker rooms. Everyone has their own reasoning why one guy should start over the other. So, what are the players saying?
"We have a couple days to get on the same page with him," Gaffney said. "We have to take today and tomorrow and Friday real seriously, and hopefully that timing will come quickly."
Wait, what? Do you normally not take Fridays seriously? OK, that's a little harsh, but it's never good hearing the word "hopefully" when articulating your Quarterback as a starter. And if you're not on the same page as John Beck now, does that mean you were on the same page with Rex Grossman? One of those interceptions was right at you.
Fred Davis...
"It's just one of those situations you're put in that you have to go with it and run with it, go out in practice and make the best of it."
That's pretty much everyone's mentality when your friend asks you to take the grenade at the bar so he can have the hottie: Translation: "It sucks. I'm not going to enjoy it. And it can't end soon enough."
"We knew coming into the season that we had two good quarterbacks. I don't think it'll surprise anybody," Hightower said. "It definitely sends a message that they want to win here. That's why you play this game, but with that comes a standard that's set. When you make a quarterback change like that, a standard is set and I think it sends a very loud message to the rest of the guys on offense that, ‘Hey, get your stuff together, we need guys to make plays and it's not later, it's now.'"
By "we" do you mean the Green Bay Packers? Grossman's play, as we've beaten to death here, doesn't really surprise anyone. I'll admit I was a drum beater for Grossman improving being three years into Kyle Shanahan's system (damn you, Kenny), but I should have known better since at training camp he was all over the place.
And of course, there was Orakpo's comments which I posted before "the decision":
"[Rex] had a bad day. There's no reason to go ahead and make changes and all this other stuff that goes along with it.... We're not a team that's just going to throw someone in and hope for the best. Right now we're in a good position."
Well, sh*t!!! Now what? So, obviously Beck is not a guy that can hit the ground running based on what they see in practice. I'm sure Rak will clarify this later, but as I see it, collectively the Redskins do not think too highly of John Beck. And that speaks volumes since the only thing they have to compare you to is Grossman.
OK, so I won't leave it all doom and gloom. Throwing a QB in there can work right? Santana Moss elaborates:
"You never know. It's just the more and more we're out there together, the more confidence we build together. It doesn't just happen over night, but there are times that it does happen over night. I remember Mark Brunell being thrown in at the beginning of the [2005] season, and he hadn't had any reps."
Ah yes!!! Brunell. Who remembers that situation? Patrick Ramsey was the week 1 starter vs the Chicago Bears. The Redskins won the game 9-7 and Joe Gibbs did the unthinkable. He benched Ramsey for Brunell.
"This is something that is extremely hard," Gibbs said. "You don't like doing this. I don't. Sometimes you don't chart the circumstances or what happens. It just happens. Certainly it wasn't the plan I had going in, but sometimes plans change, and I think you do the best you can in dealing with it."
The result? Ramsey immediately demanded a trade, and the Redskins won the next two games and made it to the second round of the playoffs. For more on Mike Shanahan on Grossman, Beck, and admitting the McNabb trade was a bust, read here.
I truly do believe John Beck can beat the Panthers. Why not use the same offense that Philly used against the Redskins? Short drops, quick slants, screens. We don't need John Beck to be Tom Brady. Neither Grossman or Beck are 7-step drop QBs, especially with our WR corps and banged up OLine. My motto for everything I do usually is successful:
KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid
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Ugh, right?
I already didn’t have the heart to click on half the links in the Slop…
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Oct 20, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Really ramped up the number of posts on the site recently.
All the (pro-rex/anti-shift) commentary from starters worries me. Maybe it is just loyalty to the guy that they worked with the first few weeks but maybe it is not.
No one has come out and said: “I like Beck and he deserves this opportunity. He will win games for us.” At the very least, I’d have expected a positive comment After he was named starter.
The question that’s burning on my mind is what happens if Shanny doesn’t draft a QB wherever we draft (14?). How will the fans respond to another year of Beck/Grossman/assorted veterans while we solidify a less glamorous position like Kerrigan did (especially if that pick gasp is not a complete monster from the get go).
Disclaimer: my discussion of the draft does not mean that I have a) stopped watching redskins games b) hate the current skins team c) given up on our current season.
something tells me
we will draft a late round QB and focus on the -oline and LB corp early in the draft.
by back_to_the_future on Oct 20, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
God I would love that
I was watching an ESPN E-60 documentary on Patrick Willis, the LB for San Fran….would be great to find a Monster like that to play in the middle of our defense next year early in the first round.
I really just want a good player in round one.
If that good player happens to be a QB, great. We really need one. If he happens to play another position, I’ll still be happy because he’s a good player.
I hate the idea of going into a draft locked into a certain position. I really believe in getting the best player available (within reason—I’m not saying draft six running backs or anything). A great (or even just good) QB would really help the team, but say we snag a stud MLB and a prototypical space eating NT. In that case, we’re starting to look like an elite defense capable of winning games despite a subpar QB. If most of your draft picks are “good,” it won’t matter much what positions you’re drafting. You’ll end up with a good team.
"Dominant" is an adjective.
"Dominate" is a verb.
We'll work on "Dominance" once we get the first two figured out.
It won’t be all short drops. There will be play action and long drops I guarantee it. There is no dialing it back for Kyle.
I'd be interested to know if Kyle still makes the call w/ Beck in.
The play calling has been so vastly different between the two QBs.
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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by Parks Smith on Oct 20, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
And that is exactly what Carolina will challenge us to do. Nobody respects our WRs or QBs on the intermediate and long routes, so expect the first 5 -10 yards to be loaded with defenders looking to jump the short slants, stuff the run, and sniff out the screens. We are going to have to prove we can hit the medium and long stuff in order to open up the run/short pass game again.
Wow, a bit of a stretch in your assumptions.
So, obviously Beck is not a guy that can hit the ground running based on what they see in practice. I’m sure Rak will clarify this later, but as I see it, collectively the Redskins do not think too highly of John Beck.
I wouldn't say that's much of a stretch
Especially when talking to the media, players are positive and standing behind their guys, and that goes quadruple for the quarterback. The players sound tentative, almost like they’re bracing themselves and that is a HUGE red flag
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Oct 20, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe they are just underplaying his abilities
and when he comes in and does well, Shanny will look like a genius.
Author @ HogsHaven, Writer for NFLTouchdown.com, Contributor/Scout for Scout.com, Football Coach/Strength Conditioning Coach at Farmington High
They're loyal to their quarterback(s).
Which they should be. There’s absolutely no comments on Beck or his abilities.
And they are loyal
to their own jobs. I think that is what is in the players mind. I don’t think they care who the QB is. Its more about, if Grossman can be benched, then who else?
by hambonejackson on Oct 20, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
The strength of schedules so far says Panthers should win this game (and the media has already jumped all over Panthers to win), but I think John Beck gets it done. I also think Beck in 15 years from now will be remembered like Todd Husak was.
"It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing Milkbone underwear." - Norm Peterson
by Kevin Ewoldt on Oct 20, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
cont'd
I mean, Rak is saying this about Beck:
We’re not a team that’s just going to throw someone in and hope for the best.
"It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing Milkbone underwear." - Norm Peterson
by Kevin Ewoldt on Oct 20, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
The ‘rak was talking about playoff-team and confidence levels and with that quote in context it’s hard to see how the players look at Beck as ‘the guy’
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Oct 20, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
So he's going to be irrelevant?
I also think Beck in 15 years from now will be remembered like Todd Husak was.
Maybe to 99% of Redskins fans, but I still have my “Husak is my Muzak” poster.
"It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing Milkbone underwear." - Norm Peterson
by Kevin Ewoldt on Oct 20, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
It seems like the Oline likes Beck better and the skill guys like Rex better
Beck is more mobile and can counter some of the Oline’s problems but I just don’t get the skill guys. I’ve tried looking at it every way possible and I would think the Defense would want Beck just so they can have a rest once in a while.
I can’t believe the players can keep a straight face about two good QBs. Maybe Rex gets hookers for the skill guys. Very Fred Smootesque.
When life gives you potatoes, make potato salad.
When life gives you shit, make shit salad.
by 64ShagginWagon on Oct 20, 2011 12:53 PM EDT reply actions
That's What I Dont Get Either
How can these players think that Rex is a good QB? This must just be media bravado…they can’t honestly be happy with a guy who takes the offense off the field with turnovers as much as Rex does.
Well maybe the defense will change their minds once...
they are all living on oxygen tanks due to 3 and outs haha.
I doubt they are
but something tells me they’re all getting the feeling it’s about to get worse and that’s what’s truly terrifying.
by SkinsOsTerps on Oct 20, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I Just Dont See How Beck can be worse than Rex
Give me a scenario under which Beck plays worse than Rex….5 INTs? Will every pass he throws get picked off?
That happened in 1 game
rex only threw 2 ints max in his other games ha. I’m a little surprised by shanny kind of taking a shot at Rex. I think the Rex era is over
by CommunistKevin on Oct 20, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Understood
And did you hear the stat that Sunday’s game against the Eagles was just Rex 4TH, yes 4TH worst statistical game in his career. Sorry, Rex is a bad QB. He’s a guy who can be good at times, but overall he’s below average, and is often horrendous.
I’d say the odds are that Beck is a better QB
Oh I can easily foresee such a situation
where the turnover problems persist and on top of it the skill positions don’t trust him so we see more miscues, dropped passes, and poor game management.
It isn’t a given but I don’t understand why people constantly trumpeting the faults of Rex are blind to the really rather similar faults of Beck.
by SkinsOsTerps on Oct 20, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Poor Game Management = Rex
So that part of it can’t get much worse.
And Beck has yet to show the propensity to turn the ball over. So until Beck proves otherwise, I don’t see how he could perform worse than Rex
Beck
If when Becks makes all the same mistakes as Grossman when he’s in there, I will be just as critical of him. I’m hopeful that he can make a few more plays, and a few less bad ones. That’s where I stand. But believe me I will be very critical of beck if he hits 40% of his passes and throws 4 picks. I just have to believe he can do better than that.
Grossman has more zip on his ball…if you’re a WR going over the middle, who would you rather have throwing it (in regards to getting your head taken off)?
"It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing Milkbone underwear." - Norm Peterson
by Kevin Ewoldt on Oct 20, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
Beck looks like he throws more of a line drive, not a pretty one i might add. Maybe it has more to do with his release making it look like it’s got more zip.
Exactly
I think this is a point of contention….no one knows who has the stronger arm.
I think it was an optical illusion and confusion with how fast he was getting the ball out.
Sometimes too quickly
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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I don't understand how you can say definitively or is this another "joke"
Did you see Beck’s downfield throws versus the Ravens?
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yes....they were horrible....looked like punts
wobbled all the way down the field…and one played a role in Stallworth’s drops…
The first INT was better than a punt, haha
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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well...it was...HA
unfortunately…I meant Beck’s throws downfield…I misread the last comment..
Beck’s were big time wobblers
and I would like an inaccurate spiral over
a inaccurate wobbler, which is what Beck showed this week and during the preseason.
What he brings is more mobility, and a seemingly better reading ability (or less risky throws, take your pick)…so we are stuck…
What?
he threw a pass or two into the dirt, but it was his first action in a month and a half. give him a week to shake off the rust.
Other than that, he had a very accurate wobbler to Austin to the 2 yard line, his deep throw to Stallworth was simply dropped (I don’t care if it was a wobbler, it hit Stallworth in both hands twice) and Gaffney had one that he had to extend for but that one hit him in the hands too (but it would have been a tough catch, I’ll grant you).
Still, at least he didn’t have any throws straight at a linebacker or safety.
the replays are right there to be seen...see the post earlier this week
very easy passes were missed…and WRs looked like they were disgusted…Maybe Rex would have missed them two…but accuracy was not Beck’s strong point Sun.
An in between throw to Torrain and Davis, and underthrow to Gaffney, and overthrow to Gaffney, a throw behind Helu into traffic, a wounded duck to Stallworth that he likely dropped in an attempt to adjust ( a non spiral isn’t easy to catch), and a wobbler to Austin placed pretty well.
He also threw a ball in the wrong spot to Moss eliminating some YAC.
Beck has his strengths, but unless it was jitters, accuracy and precision are not two of them.
Look at the breakdown or video if you don’t believe me. It was even more apparent at the game.
And yes, his reads were much better than Grossman’s last week, making the decision a close one. I really don’t even care, although I would have gone with Grossman based on team chemistry. But that is me and I can see how others would differ.
No like that duck to LaDarius Webb
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what about...
Rex’d beautiful throws to his favorite receiver Kurt Coleman and to Adrian Moten in preseason.
Dear Passionate fan, I know you are passionate, but please reply with a logical answer or I will ignore you.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Oct 20, 2011 2:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Everyone of our WR is saying Rex is a better QB
just cause a player says something, doesn’t mean its true…
by Jornek on Oct 20, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rex has a 66.5 QB rating, good for #32 in the NFL
You are allowed to switch QBs when this is the case
That's my point
I was just saying that just because AA says Beck’s arm is stronger, doesn’t mean its true,
Just like how all our WR seem to say that Rex is better, it’s just not true.
by Jornek on Oct 20, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
Worse QB than McNabb, Campbell, and every rookie who aren’t yet masters of their offensive system
Rex is a bad QB, say it loud and proud
That is basically what this post is about...
all of the quotes side with Rex
by mbedner on Oct 20, 2011 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
haha +1
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I don't think any WR said "Rex is a better QB"
You might be reading between the lines and making inferences. But no player in his right mind is going to say Rex is better, after Shanahan designated Beck the starter.
Beck's delivery and throws are hard to watch, it's disgusting...
as long as they are complete to the right team I’ll be happy though.
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I am right there with you...it was blatant in the stadium...
the throw to Stallworth was literally spinning side to side…just horrible…
I noticed when I watched the highlights it was tough to tell…
Beck holds the ball longer than Rex
then has a much faster release. It looks wierd and the timing with the WRs is then off.
Liger I slightly disagree
It may have been nerves, but when Beck first came in it look like he was getting the ball out as soon as it touched his hand on a few throws, before anything could materialize.
Beck does step up, but if you watch game film, a lot of times on Sunday he stepped up too far. He was clanking his limbs on helmets and OL. Again, I hope this was nerves.
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I hope so too.
hopefully he’ll get the distance right on the whole stepping up thing. But it is nice to see our QB actually do that instead of stand 6 yards behind the line of scrimage and leave Trent and Jamaal out to dry.
He was playing too fast last week
I noticed that he held the ball longer in the preseason games and waited for the receiver to make their break before releasing. Rex would throw it before their break.
Beck = More Zip
This has been a highly debated topic, but I’m in the camp that Beck appears to have more zip on his balls.
Kevin, What game did you watch? Beck has more zip on his ball. Plus he sets up faster. His delivery is faster than Rex. So his receivers will not have balls floating to them giving the Db's a chance to close on them. .
I really hope after all the Rex butt kissing, you do the same for Beck after Sunday.
by LETJASONPASS on Oct 21, 2011 3:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe Moss and Davis
think that is they would have made 3 plays…(Moss’ drop, his slip, and Davis inteception) Rex would still be there…
could be some projection…
Grossman was there until Beck was ready to play
So is Beck there until Crompton is ready? I have no idea.
by hambonejackson on Oct 20, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess you missed the underthrows and overthrows
and the throw that almost got Helu killed…
that is what the skills guys see…not the scrambling…
neither is a good option…we just have to hope one turns into Dilfer and Kyle turns into Belichick…
bad pass as well...
notice the last line where I said both were below average…
but Beck’s throws were just way way off…
Torrain, two to Gaffney.,.Stallworth wide open, and a wobbler to Austin…just bad throws…fortunately the one to Austin was placed correctly…
he has a hitch is his delivery that looks like he is trying to throw a curveball…and it kills any chance of a consistent sprial…
but the good news is all of those reads were good..
.they both have their strengths and weaknesses..
I like how you analyze BOTH QBs, it's an art that has been lost in this thread, haha
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funny how that works...
I basically think it comes down to Kyle..
We don’t have world beaters at QB….we need to play call accordingly…not expose their weaknesses based on who is playing, and dial it back. Right now, while they are making bad throws for different reasons, they are also not always being placed in a position to succeed.
3 straight PAs deep looks the first series against STL because Torrey Smith caught 3 TDs the week earlier, but without AA? Why? Against a horrible run D? Just makes him and Rex look bad. Add Rex’s swashbuckler gene and you have a recipe for disaster.
We have an alright team. But we have to play within ourselves. Right now, there are lots of opportunities for improvement from top to bottom.
I know I would back anyone...
who got me onto Sex Boat.
"Dominant" is an adjective.
"Dominate" is a verb.
We'll work on "Dominance" once we get the first two figured out.
That pass to Austin was like, BOOM-BOOM...happened really fast.
When Rex throws it feels like time stops…kind of like when you know you are about to be in a car accident.
"That's what she said!"
As I have tried to figure out why the skill guys seem to like Grossman
when looking back, it does appear arm strength is the issue. Grossman throws the deep out much better, than Beck. I also think Grossman fits Kyles pass happy offense better. “IF” they resort to more Shanny senior ball control, running, I think Beck can be the better QB.
Btw, does anybody else agree that when Torrain is in the backfield it is so obvious, they are going to run? To me Hightower is the better back because of his versatility. It just seemed like Philly new when Helu was in they were going to run a screen, when Torrain was in, they were going to run. Philly never stopped the run that good.
Also, Kyles play calling has been really suspect
It’s obvious he is not patient with the run. I blame the loss to Dallas on a lack of patience. To me Grossman would still be the QB had he not be forced to throw so much. Philly didn’t beat us with long balls down the field, but with screens and dump offs, and play makers.
hard to call good plays
when your QB doesn’t step up in the pocket, can’t run a bootleg, and doesn’t see Linebackers in coverage.
Beck will open up the playbook big time.
not at all
Its more so about confidence and motivation.
scenerio 1. beck starts, rex loses confidence. Rex doesnt have that “i will prove them wrong” attitutde. rex sits, and when called on, do what he did last year till now. throw int but still show flashes with plays like az.
scenerio2. rex starts and beck sits. rex has more confidence, beck is pissed and wants to prove wrong.
in scenerio 2, you have more confiedence and motivation.
by back_to_the_future on Oct 20, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
But in scenario 2...
Rex Grossman is your starting QB. Like he’s the one throwing passes on the field during games. I think that’s much more important to consider than whether or not he’s in a good mood.
"Dominant" is an adjective.
"Dominate" is a verb.
We'll work on "Dominance" once we get the first two figured out.
I look at things like this.
We have seen one quarter of play from Beck. He scored a TD in that quarter of play and didn’t turn the ball over.
Everyone thinks this guy will be a complete disaster and it’s ridiculous.
8-15 117 yards and a TD> 9-22 143 4INT.
"That's what she said!"
No one is saying he will be a complete disaster, you are just pumping him up so much like he's perfect.
You have to recognize that he has faults and not every, single one of his attributes are better than that of Grossman.
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Then what, if any, attributes does Rex possess that are greater than Beck's?
"That's what she said!"
1) Experience
2) “Zip” on WCO type passes, which were discussing
3) I’d probably take Rex pre-snap, more so than Beck…but this could certainly change.
You have to be objective about both you can’t just definitely bury one guy based on something you haven’t seen before. You’re like the boy that cried wolf, no one knows if your kidding, joking, or serious.
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I'm not joking in this post...
1) I have experience playing basketball…I don’t belong in the NBA.
2) You see the “zip”, I don’t.
3) Rex never seems to get a read on linebackers or see them.
But again, we’ll see in 72 hours.
"That's what she said!"
thanks another great, logical discussion
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Where is your logic?
I watch every snap of every game, just like I’m sure everyone else on here does. I formulate an opinion about what I see and talk about it. How is my post any less logical than yours? Hmmmmmmm?
"That's what she said!"
B/c you form an opinion and don't cite anything. Those plays you watch talk about those.
1) I have experience playing basketball…I don’t belong in the NBA.
I mean really dude? You don’t think having a QB that has NFL starting experience isn’t a plus. Sure it didn’t translate all that well, but its still something that can be looked at as a positive. You don’t formulate an opinion, you formulate a fact in your head and then present it as such.
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Dude, you can't have it both ways.
You act like your opinion is some scientifically derived theory and mine is absurd. You list #2 in your argument as “zip” on passes. How do you measure zip? Is there a zip-o-meter? I simply said I don’t see the zip you’re talking about. It’s a difference of opinion.
"That's what she said!"
You cite examples... Your argument that Beck has better arm than Rex, is that you don't see "zip" in Rex's passes
WTF does that have to do with Beck?
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The only way we can possibly solve this is to go to the tape.
For instance, take a deep ball from Rex in the Eagles game and a deep ball from Beck, of similar lengths…then time how fast the ball takes to get there. That would be a logical argument.
"That's what she said!"
I hope this is another "joke"
That would be so circumstantial. Have you ever played QB before, even like in your backyard. It’s not a vacuum. And it’s obviously not a question you can definitively solve.
But you are just point to one side of the equation, and sometimes peoples hatred for Rex actually blinds a logical notion.
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No, I played basketball (point guard)
so I understand how passing and timing work in a game. I just don’t see how what I presented is a joke.
"That's what she said!"
Did you throw every pass of the same length your entire career the exact same way?
Never factored in defenders, teammate placement, anything like that?
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Of course I did.
But when your passes get taken away 4 times there is something wrong with either your timing, zip or brain. Maybe a combination.
"That's what she said!"
Hmmm
Some humorous reference to the ‘Sex Cannon’ overpowering the ‘Good Rex’ referencing ‘timing’, ‘zip’, and ‘brain’
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Oct 20, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Al this talk of "zip" reminded me of this
Zip it! Ziiiiip.
Ladies and gentlemen ExZIP IT A.
I’m Zippi Longstocking!
Would you like a suckle of mine Zipple?
When a problem comes along you must zip it. zip it good.
www.zipit.com.org
actually, even in a vacuum trajectory
would need to be accounted for so it a pretty bad way to attempt to calculate “zip”…
and you can solve it….take out a radar gun…
probably doesn’t matter (pennington had a horrible arm)….but it is possible to measure “zip” if we really needed to…
I took it to the game, that's how I know it to befact
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parks
you wrong on this one. nfl starting experience is all hype. todd collins, cassel, gerrard, ryan leaf, chris simms, kyle boller, etc. all have starting experience. so what.
the point of the matter is that we have 2 qb with 2 oc calling plays. no playaction/ bootleg/rolllout kyle with rex and the all the above kyle with beck. the fact of the matter is beck opens up the playbook. rex height, speed, and tendencies limit them.
by back_to_the_future on Oct 20, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Ask the Titans
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Co-signed for Truth
Waaay too much pumping for a guy who managed to survive less than 1 quarter of a regular season game without turning the ball over.
by The Agent C 83 on Oct 20, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
People think that since Beck didn't come in and pull a Doug Williams 2nd quarter in the Superbowl, he must suck.
"That's what she said!"
I think everyone is excited to see him.
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I do think arm strength is an issue with Beck, The Gross Man has him on that
by Rodskins on Oct 20, 2011 2:22 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Based on what?
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Based on watching their throws.
Look, I don’t think Rex is as horrible as some people are making out. I don’t think Beck is going to be this team’s savior. And I believe Rex is better in some ways than Beck.
But I saw harder AND longer throws in one quarter of Beck’s play than I ever saw in Grossman’s 19 quarters. To be fair, I also saw more horribly inaccurate throws. I won’t go as far as Tiller does, sometimes making out as though Rex has a girl arm and Beck has a laser cannon, but Beck definitely gets more power on his throws. Whether it’s from having big Mormon muscles or from actually stepping into his throws, I don’t really care. My eyes see more zip on Beck’s throws.
"Dominant" is an adjective.
"Dominate" is a verb.
We'll work on "Dominance" once we get the first two figured out.
Beck will have a good day Sunday.
Men and Football. The two greatest creations known to women!
by RedskinsGirl on Oct 20, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I concur, but I heard a radio interview where Sav Rocca said Beck did.
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Sonny J
Also remarked that beck had more zip and during preseason he predicted he would be our starter.
Though he is senile i still lovem
The Beat Box aka skins secondary.
Grossman came in looking like the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
If he had more zip, that’s scary.
by Xin Baixiang on Oct 20, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats exactly why I hate Rex. How can you take a guy seriously that is trying to win a qb job that comes in looking puffy?
Rex is a moron. I will go with the Mormon Beck any day.
by LETJASONPASS on Oct 21, 2011 3:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I prefer Beck...It just lloked like Grossman has more zip on the ball
I think thats why Santana likes him
David said that Beck has a stronger arm
Does anyone else agree? I think Grassman has much more zip on the ball…though usually to the wrong players.
by Rodskins on Oct 20, 2011 2:29 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Sorry for the redundency, just saw your post parks.
Thats interesting what Sav said, on TV it looks the opposite.
I was completely joking about Sav, poking fun of the AA comment earlier
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Punters spend a lot of time watching qbs throw the ball. Normally from the opposite end of the field or in some far corner. They have a lot of stand around time at practice. If they punted the whole practice they would not have a leg left. lol
by LETJASONPASS on Oct 21, 2011 3:23 AM EDT up reply actions
To your earlier comment Parks, Beck will have a good day because he will not throw 4 interceptions. He will make better decisions. He also has a better arm from what i have seen.
Men and Football. The two greatest creations known to women!
by RedskinsGirl on Oct 20, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
So that's the standard now?
Beck will have a good day because he will not throw 4 interceptions
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
The Skins need Beck to do what Alex Smith is doing hun. Be smart and not turn it over. The Skins have the 6th ranked defense. Grossman has 11 turnovers in 5 games.
Men and Football. The two greatest creations known to women!
by RedskinsGirl on Oct 20, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty low bar, haha
If we’re talking about Beck monday then something went horribly wrong or incredibly right.
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lol. We should taken Andy Dalton in the draft.
Men and Football. The two greatest creations known to women!
by RedskinsGirl on Oct 20, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I said that when I did the War Room mock on here in April
Got grilled, hard…
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You are the smartest one here my dear. We should have went young with a QB. The Skins have no QB of the future. We have at best two solid backups.
Men and Football. The two greatest creations known to women!
by RedskinsGirl on Oct 20, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
pretty sure I'm the dumbest one here, but thanks...
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Dalton has been pretty accurate this year. The last QB we had that completed 60% of his passes was Jason Campbell.
Men and Football. The two greatest creations known to women!
by RedskinsGirl on Oct 20, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
come on yall....time to be serious
if we would have taken a qb, no kerrigan? no jarvis jenkins? no hankerson? pick one..QB is not the most need right now. you build the defense, then the oline, the the QB. all while aquiring skill positions. that is the formula of the steelers, ravens, pats, jets, pakers….etc.
by back_to_the_future on Oct 20, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
We built the oline? I was just referencing the War Room mock I did in April w/ Kevin
My Picks ended up like this:
1st Round: Anthony Castonzo, OT, Boston College
2nd Round: Andy Dalton, QB, TCU
3rd Round: Kris O’Dowd, C, USC
3rd Round: Jerrell Powe, NT, Ole Miss
5th Round: Terrance Toliver, WR, LSU
6th Round: Ugo Chinasa, OLB, Oklahoma State
7th Round: Dion Lewis, RB, Pitt
7th Round: Anthony Gaitor, CB, FIU
7th Round: Charles Clay, FB, Tulsa
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We didn't get
Any of those guys
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
You mean 'I always check down in big moments' Jason Campbell?
I will never forget the 2005 MNF game…but let’s not make JC a standard…
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Oct 20, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
McNabb can back him up
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by Parks Smith on Oct 20, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If Beck is the Starter next year
I wouldn’t mind bringing JC in as the backup….then put off drafting a QB another year….hmmmm
You lost me at
If Beck is the starter next year
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
JC sucked...still sucks.
Talk about a guy that holds onto the ball too long.
"That's what she said!"
If both were 100% healthy who would you rather start Sunday, Beck or Campbell?
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I feel sorry for you, and the North Carolina educational system
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There we go...
chucking insults because someone doesn’t agree with you.
It’s your go-to move.
"That's what she said!"
Parks family
tried exorcism on him, but the demon within him refuses to leave.
by hambonejackson on Oct 20, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
They had the wrong type of chicken bones
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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Parks went to a college founded by Jerry Falwell and where the mascot is “the Flame.”
Plenty of ammo there.
"It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing Milkbone underwear." - Norm Peterson
by Kevin Ewoldt on Oct 20, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Better than my cousin's mascot
UC-Santa Cruz Banana Slugs.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
Not as bad as Kevin's alma mater
Eastern Maryland Correctional Institute Crabs (not the kind you eat)
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No one messed with us.
"It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing Milkbone underwear." - Norm Peterson
by Kevin Ewoldt on Oct 20, 2011 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
That was grad school buddy, not undergrad
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And I'm really not a fan of Falwell, Sr.
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What's not to like?
You mean you don’t think that Tinky Winky the teletubby is a gay role model?
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
Ugh... my sister goes to undergrad their
It’s certainly changed a lot since he passed. I just went their b/c it was the most affordable accredited online grad school I could find (so I could work at the same time).
I just kind of use them as an excuse for a college football team, since my alma mater, Longwood, doesn’t have one.
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It just seemed sort of odd
Because I seem to remember that you were a liberal (correct me if I’m wrong)… and he’s anything but liberal.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
Not big on politics, but I definitely lean more to the left.
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Someone with a resume that has “Longwood” and “Liberty” on it sounds like they should be working at a gay porn video store or a flower shop. (or both…see, there you go…I just gave you a business idea).
"It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing Milkbone underwear." - Norm Peterson
by Kevin Ewoldt on Oct 20, 2011 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
You want in?
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O so now we can't joke any more?
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I certainly hope he will.
Why does everyone go nuts when someone says Grossman has a better arm? It’s like you think the few of us are trying to assassinate Beck or something. Beck has some better facets in his game and some worse than Rex; but I’m sure we’re all hoping he does well for the Skins.
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I need him to be like Brady.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
My boyfriend killed it with Beck on Madden 08. ROFL. Beck has a 90 throw power and 86 accuracy on that game.
Men and Football. The two greatest creations known to women!
by RedskinsGirl on Oct 20, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Well there ya have it.
Case closed.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
You need to get your boyfriend an updated copy of Madden
jesus…
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You shouldn't let iH8dallas see this John Beck madden post
it may be used against you as ‘evidence,’ Parks.
Haha. He has all the Maddens from 2000 to 2013. He was just playing that one the other day.
Men and Football. The two greatest creations known to women!
by RedskinsGirl on Oct 20, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
1) Why?
2) Madden13? Does he have a time machine also?
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Ugh. I meant 2012. He is a video game nut. He likes Madden.
Men and Football. The two greatest creations known to women!
by RedskinsGirl on Oct 20, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Wanted to re-live the glory years...
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He had not played in a while. He likes playing old video games.
Men and Football. The two greatest creations known to women!
by RedskinsGirl on Oct 20, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, me too
I hooked up the Atari to my projector the other day. Harry Pitfall’s 3 1/2 pixels don’t make the transition too well.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
damn. lol
Men and Football. The two greatest creations known to women!
by RedskinsGirl on Oct 20, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
So who's our QB in 2013?
I’m dying to know. Wait, no, don’t tell me. oK, tell me. No don’t. Do. Don’t. Do. Don’t. Shit.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
Jason Campbell. He will be signed when his contract runs out this year in Oakland. lol
Men and Football. The two greatest creations known to women!
by RedskinsGirl on Oct 20, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
What she didnt tell us
was that he threw 2 passes and ran hightower the whole time
by Rodskins on Oct 20, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good hands?
Did he give you a massage?
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
If Beck screws up. Then we need to run our offense like Navy. ROFL. Run that son of a bitch all day. lol
Men and Football. The two greatest creations known to women!
by RedskinsGirl on Oct 20, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
But people keep pointing to the 1 quarter, 0 interception, 1 TD argument
So can’t we extrapolate that out to 4 self forced fumbles per game?
Grossman did it every game
Hate to break it to you but Beck did it in every game he’s been in also.
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Does that mean we can
Extrapolate a rushing TD once a quarter from Beck? I think that would be badass.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
Absolutely.
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If he scores 4 touchdowns per game with his legs
any errors will be totally excusable. 28 points would have beaten the Eagles even with Rex’s 4 turnovers.
Especially if Beck gets most of the fumbles back, like he did against the Eagles.
You got me there
But my point is, and I hope you will agree, between the two when they are being rushed, who makes you more nervous in the pocket?
Grossman but that's b/c we've seen him and have that in our head.
Right now Beck’s pocket presence is judged as better by pure default.
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There is no disputing Beck will handle the ball better
I watched Grossman in Chicago, he has always been fumble happy.
How do you know Beck isn't fumble happy?
He fumbled SEVEN times in for starts.
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Was it an NFL team?
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I don't understand your point?
Did you watch the ’07 Dolphins? Expert on their line? How many excuses can we come up with for this guy?
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dude
the guy was a rookie on a team that went 1-15 that year. They allowed 42 sacks even with their mobile QBs. I simply don’t see how you can hold that against him, but it’s the only stat you keep bringing up.
So did he fumble 7 times or not?
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Tom Brady would have fumbled 7 times in 4 starts on that team.
jesus christ, this is not a difficult concept to understand, Parks.
O look another excuse...
Editor at Hogs Haven - Redskins Blog
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Nope no excuses, he's just not very good
But Beck has plenty and hasn’t even played yet…
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there's a difference
between a valid reason for something and an excuse.
Beck doesn’t have excuses. No Quarterback would look good on that team, period. “lol they just excusez” is what someone says when they don’t have a valid point themselves, but don’t want to admit it. I thought you were above that.
by TheDeepBall on Oct 20, 2011 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Fun Fact: That season the fumble averages per start were:
Green: .04
Lemon: .77
Beck: 1.75
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So what I'm gathering from what you are saying is
Beck is on pace for a 45 touchdown, 0 interception season. Sweet!
bingo...
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I'm gonna blast you
If that doesn’t happen.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
Well let me check with washingtonwin for confirmation first then.
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I already copy pasted the screenshot to my desktop folder
entitled Park’s Predictions
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Oct 20, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Good luck with that
Talk about extrapolating….
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
by CJHutch on Oct 20, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
haha +1
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Except Becks fumble
didn’t result in a TD for the other team the Grossmans’ manage to.
by hambonejackson on Oct 20, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
No
But that one scramble when he was holding the ball like a TV remote had me kinda nervous.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
by CJHutch on Oct 20, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You forgot
Exemplary
Delicious
Confident
Good with children…
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Oct 20, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sounds like my boyfriend.
Men and Football. The two greatest creations known to women!
by RedskinsGirl on Oct 20, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Bet.
Men and Football. The two greatest creations known to women!
by RedskinsGirl on Oct 20, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
Then he obviously needs to give Mike Shanahan a call
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Oct 20, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
You think Shanny
Goes that way?
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
Little known fact
Mike Shanahan is actually blind and can’t tell the difference any more
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Oct 20, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
And obviously
reply fail to RedskinsGirl
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Oct 20, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats What I was thinking too
Redskinettes tend not to be very attractive for the most part, unfortunately
To me she took the time to post a picture, and she obvious knew how to do it
so why not post one of yourself and not one of Angelina Jolie?
Who knows though, she probably is and posted a picture of Angelina Jolie
because people compare her to Jolie… We will never know. Plus, I don’t really care that much.
By asking if she's attractive or not? I think it was a fair question
by StephanHart on Oct 20, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
POLE: With the Pocket breaking down
Who makes you more nervous Beck or Grossman?
I vote Grossman…his hands are terrible
Say what you want about Rex Grossman
But the man isn’t Polish
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Oct 20, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Grossman makes me cringe. He can’t move. lol
Men and Football. The two greatest creations known to women!
by RedskinsGirl on Oct 20, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Everyone is going to say Grossman, b/c they've actually seen him.
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Beck can throw some iffy passes at times. Sometimes the game can seem a lil fast for him.
Men and Football. The two greatest creations known to women!
by RedskinsGirl on Oct 20, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Remember Kevin talking about avoiding this?
The whole extrapolating from preseason play thing?
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Oct 20, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
For a quarter...
Like I said above in the 4 times I have seen John Beck start he fumbled the ball 7 times.
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I get your point
But it is obvious to most casual observers when you compare Grossman to other QB’s he has always been fumble happy, he’s not very athletic, he just doesnt look like a natural. Am I the only one that sees this, surley not, that’s why vegas bets against us, no matter how good our team is, this is a QB driven league. And you never knew what Rex would do.
You're not going to find an argument there
But once again, you’re trying to compare two people, but just looking at ONE person.
he has always been fumble happy,he’s not very athletic, he just doesnt look like a natural.
I can say the exact same thing about Beck.
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Yeah
I don’t think either one of them look at all like Robert Redford.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
Well then you my firend are not very observant
Just by watching Beck, he appears more athletic. That however does not always net good results ie David Carr. But I think with our current Oline, I am more comfortable with Beck
Did you not see me scratch out the athletic part?
You my friend are not very observant
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Agree wholeheartedly
the stupidist thing I keep seeing come up is this idea that Beck is some sort of an unknown.
by SkinsOsTerps on Oct 20, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Can I just vote PRESENT?
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
by CJHutch on Oct 20, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How many were dumb enough to put Rex on your fantasy league?
No one why? Cause he doesnt protect the ball. I’m glad Becks the QB, he should have been from the start. I believ Rex got the nod, cause he was bff with Kyle and he throws a better deep ball.
Ken...
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I had rex for as a place holder for Philip Rivers last week
he cost me -2.5 points, but I still won.
my team name was rex grossman mvp
didnt have him on my team though lol. i got big ben with my 3rd to last pick in the draft. and took redskins d with my last pick.after this weeks lose i changed my name to rex grossman sucks :P
by munson21502 on Oct 21, 2011 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
This isn't complicated
Grossman was never Shannys guy. What does Shanahan say about Grossman? He knows the offense. What does he say about Beck? The best QB taken in the year he was drafted. I think that says who he likes and the fact that it came after the bye week makes me think that Shanahn contemplated changing QBs, Grossman really had to play well to continue to start because Beck is the teachers pet. In fairness, behind Beck is the youngest and strongest armed of them all on the team in Crompton and if Crompton is on the team next season, then Shanahan must think he is making progress.
Gameplan
If we gameplan to go with short drops WR slants, screens, etc. I think it will be a very long day for Beck. The reason that worked for Philly is because we played cushions and had a great deal of respect for their deep ball, they had the most plays over 20 yards coming into the game. Frankly, Philly focused on stopping all of our short stuff and loaded the box to take away our run game. If Carolina uses Philly’s defensive gameplan, we will HAVE to hit the intermediate and long balls. It’s the only way we can loosen up the defense. Good luck to you Beck. Carolina is going to challenge you to hit the itermediate and long routes, so there should be plenty there for the taking if you can execute.
ill tell ya what....
all u fantasy players out there should go get austin. he is becks go to guy:) if u noticed austion hasny did much all year and soon as beck comes in so does austin.in the preseason hightower also had his best games when beck was in there. lets see if this happens this sunday:)
Feel
Beck had not played in a regular season game in quite some time, but yet he seemed more comfortable than Rex. As the former coach of the giants (can’t think of his name), repeated he did a good job of climbing the pocket and finding room in the pocket to through. If Rex doesn’t have a perfect pocket, he is a disaster. He gets rattled leaves the pocket to quick and as we all know makes horrible decisions. The thing that worried me about Beck was how the ball came out of his hand on a few throws and how he carried the ball like a loaf of bread. He did have some ugly throws that still got to the receivers, and they dropped them. I don’t care how ugly the throw is, if you gets to you catch it. You are in the league and not in high school or college. Beck seemed to recognize blitzes quicker make changes and get the ball out quick. I actually like this move. Rex showed his true colors and with a banged up line we would have seen more performances like the one in the Eagles game.
John Beck has superior arm strength
Nevada’s Colin Kaepernick registered 59 mph. Ryan Mallett of Arkansas recorded 58 mph, Cam Newton of Auburn, 56 mph.
Beck was clocked in at… 61.1 mph
Beck to the future!
by The Shanaplan on Oct 21, 2011 2:58 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Not what I was getting at
I was not referring to arm strength! I was referring to how the ball comes out of his hand. If he doesn’t throw a nice spiral, the speed will be diminished. He seemed to have trouble gripping the ball. Again, I prefer Beck over Grossman. He does need to protect the ball and hopefully it was just jitters with regard to the couple wobblers he threw!
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