Redskins Are Rolling the Dice with Only 8 Offensive Linemen
When I think of the Redskins OLine last year, a lot of image-related similes come to mind - the gushing BP oil cap, the Arizona/Mexico border, and George Costanza's defective blue condom. Given the amount of injuries this team went through in 2009 and the lack of quality depth, one would think Shanahan would carry 10 OL like Zorn did last year. That's why it surprised me a bit the Redskins are only carrying 8.
| Redskins 2010 OL Depth Chart | ||||
| LT | LG | C | RG | RT |
| T. Williams | Dockery | Rabach | A. Hicks | J. Brown |
| S. Heyer | Lichtensteiger | Lichtensteiger | W. Montgomery | S. Heyer |
So, Stephon Heyer is the backup Tackle in both spots (Artis Hicks has Tackle experience in the past). Both Will Montgomery and Kory Lichtensteiger can ball at Guard and Center if called upon, so there is a lot of options for shuffling should the Redskins need to...although McNabb should take out a second life insurance policy if Rabach or Williams goes down. To give you an idea, the Saints and Cowboys have 10 OL and the Eagles and Giants have 9. Three of the Redskins OL are 30 or older (Brown will be 30 in March), which makes me think Shanahan is a guy that would enjoy a craps table. Selvish Capers got worked over in pre-season, so based on the last two years, we know what talent practice squad players bring in a starting role.
Should it be a disappointment that 0 of the Redskins four 6th and 7th round draft picks made the roster? YES. On one hand, putting them on the practice squad saves rooms for a veteran that we couldn't keep otherwise, on the other hand, it's a failure of a pick. The fact is there are players in these rounds that turn out to be starter quality and the Redskins missed the mark. I'm actually a little shocked this was the case since Shanahan had the entire year last year to watch the college game, visit schools, and assess players.
One.Cool.Customer, a blogger for the Cowboys' SBN site, Blogging the Boys, did a fantastic post summing up the success rate of the NFC East draft picks over the last two years. The Redskins not only have the worst average round pick (4.9), but they have a DISMAL 38% survival rate on the current roster (the purging of Vinny's picks is a significant part of this).
|
NFC East 2009 & 2010 draft pick survival rate |
||||
|
Cowboys |
Eagles |
Redskins |
||
|
No. of picks |
19 |
21 |
16 |
13 |
|
On 53-man roster |
79%(15) |
67%(14) |
75%(12) |
38% (5) |
|
Employed by an NFL team |
89% (17) |
81%(17) |
88%(14) |
69% (9) |
BTB sums it up nicely:
The Redskins this year had only two of their six draft picks make the 53-man roster. The four cuts were all 6th and 7th round picks, but still: Where the Redskins are 0-for-4, the Cowboys are 3-for-4 on 6th and 7th rounders, the Eagles are 2-for-4 and the Giants 2-for-2 if you count Adrian Tracy (on IR) as part of the 53-man roster.
I agreed with the statement Shanahan made two days ago:
"The worst thing people can do is keep a draft pick just to keep a draft pick," Shanahan said recently. "What you do is you keep the people who give you the best chance to win."
But at the same time, we need some young players that can play. If we look at Super Bowl winners, they hit homeruns in their drafts. The Redskins are of course without their 3rd and 4th round picks next year and due to those trades, have multiple 6th and 7th round picks. Let's just say I won't be sprinting to the TV when those picks come up next April. OK, yea I will.
It shouldn't have to come down to injuries, but if a lineman gets banged up early, it's pretty safe to say a trade will need to be made. The question then is asked, ‘Can the Redskins do it without trading any draft picks?"
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Comments
I still don't see what the big deal is?
If someone gets hurt pick up someone or call them up from the practice squad. NFL rosters are completely amorphous from week to week also. What the depth chart looks like right now could be totally different in a couple of weeks.
This is not a good way to find decent back ups
it’s simply a way to get warm bodies like 82-year old Ray Brown. Remember that?
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I understand that...
But Kevin and Skins Fan are sitting here whining about carrying 9. What else would you have done in this situation? Kept Rhinehart or an 9th lineman and your happy? We tried to sign some guys in the offseason and failed.
So what is everyone else’s solution, b/c I’m hearing a whole lot of bitching from old man ’77 but no answers… The cupboard was bare when Allen and Shanny got here and at least their trying to replenish it.
There's a bigger point:
we need more decent OL, not simply warm bodies. I don’t think people are arguing that any old 9th lineman will make us better. At least, I hope not.
We don’t have good back ups, let alone addressing our aging/mediocre interior offensive line. We still need to devote a number of future picks to OL. Not WR. Not RB. But OL.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that point...
The post didn’t really address those points, rather the fact we have 8 lineman.
Whining? Bitching? Old man?
Nice, what are you 14 years old?
They had no problem bringing in a dozen defensive lineman for three spots. They brought in a dozen wide receivers for five or six spots. They did not bring in enough talent to challenge for the five spots on the offensive line.
I’m sure Jefferson will chime in here at some point, and let us all know who we might’ve been able to get, or might still get… Oh and he’s an old man too
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Sep 8, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
We tried! It didn't happen...
Almost every quality lineman that hit the market we went after and failed. We were incredibly lucky to get Brown and Hicks.
Don't forget
Mike williams was in the plans also. Shanahan has said he has a future as a guard. I think they were really dissapointed in him being lost for the season.
I have to agree with you there
But I have our time believing that there were not guys out there on the waiver wire that are better than who we have on the practice squad now or in camp in the summer. I just don’t think they made enough effort to go out and find them. They seem to put a hell of a lot more effort into dragging out every wide receiver to camp.
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Sep 8, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
You are completely contradicting yourself
the zone blocking system requires a lot of continuity and repetitions. You are not going to be able to get an effective replacement for the offensive line during the season from the waiver wire or the practice squad;
I have our time believing that there were not guys out there on the waiver wire that are better than who we have on the practice squad now or in camp in the summer.
Stop trying to nitpick and it will be easier for you
The second box quote up there should be read in the context of during the summer not the season
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Sep 8, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
It's not nitpicking
You just aren’t making any sense. I think the fact you want one more bad back up is nitpicking.
My original statement
Was that we were "dangerously thin" on the offensive line.
Every other comment has been an attempt to clarify this point after being read by someone else as something else.
I’m not saying I had the answers, I agreed with you that getting Brown and Hicks were lucky and good moves.
My only other beef with Shanahan and Allen is that I don’t think they put as much effort into the offensive line as they did the wide receivers and defensive line.
Where’s the nit picking and that?
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Sep 8, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't worry
It’s not really a contradiction, he seems to be just clueing in on certain words to make it seem so.
Correct me if I am wrong, but you are saying that in quote 1, you are not going to be able to get an effective replacement during the Season off of the waiver wire, because it takes a lot of continuity and repetitions.
In quote 2, you are saying that that, over the past few weeks and up to now there have got to be some guys that are better than our backups and practice squad guys, that we could bring in to start getting the continuity and repetition with because they will be practicing with the team now…not picked up 3 days before the next game because of an injury and this guy has no clue what we are doing…
Atleast, that is how I read your comments
Exactly
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Sep 8, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
After the cuts, on the 53-man roster, is the significant issue. The Redskins have 8 roster spots for taken by 3 DL positions.
94 Carriker, DE; 93 Daniels, DE; 64 Golston, DE; 90 Jarmon, DE; 79 Holliday, DE; 92 Haynesworth, DE/NT; 76 Bryant, NT; and 96 Kemoeatu, NT.
While it is important to have depth at the DL for rotations, no other positions on the Team have more than two deep. With 8 DL that is one short of 3 deep. Few on HH would have liked to have seen Jarmon cut. Haynesworth might be gone and he might not get replaced. The Team could bring on an older OL listed on http://www.nfl.com/freeagency#players-tab-set-1:players-grid-container-recent/players-list-links-position:pos-ol (not up to date) or one of the younger cuts from http://www.nfl.com/transactions. The Redskins have other sources for players that do not appear on these lists.
by Jefferson1935 on Sep 8, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
How do the Titans stack up re:
depth on their OLine? Could we trade Haynesworth for a serviceable backup guard and a 3rd round pick? (being optimistic with the round selection here)
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Thank you Jefferson
I knew you would have a reply with a link.
I think it’s unusual for a team to have 8 defensive lineman for three spots. I think that the situation has left us unnecessarily thin with the offensive unit.
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Sep 8, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
What's your problem?
You’re being a bit of an ass
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by Skins Fan '77 on Sep 8, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I am an ass...
Welcome to the party. Do I realize that our offensive line blows ass depth-wise? Yes. Do I think they tried to remedy the problem this off season? Yes
But I don’t think we focused more on WRs, etc. We are changing schemes on defense so of course you’re going to bring a lot of guys in. But its easy as hell to sit on the internet and look at a free agents list and transaction wire and go “O hey we should get this guy or that guy”. You don’t think the GENERAL MANAGER that’s getting paid millions of dollars does that?
There is also a lot more uncertainty on the D-Line, we know who our offensive lineman are, but have no idea what our d-line will be like most of the season. Will Big Al be here? Will Kemo stay healthy? Some flex also.
I really don’t think, given our CURRENT roster, carrying 8 o-linemen is such a big deal. The original plan was to keep 2 QBs but that got flushed down the drain for obvious reasons.
Okay, agree in part with
The offensive line blows ass depth wise-agreed
they tried to remedy the problem this off-season-agreed
partially agree on bringing in more defensive players because of the change to the 34-we supposedly had the personnel to make that change somewhat effortlessly, I guess that turned out not to be the case.
I am not one of these kids who goes gaga over every free agent or malcontent that might be available on another team.
Here’s where I think we disagree:
I don’t think enough effort was put into finding talent to compete for the positions on the offensive line during the off-season; some good work was done, but it seems they stopped working on this when the subject of depth came up.
My other beef is that if fewer wide receivers were on the 80 man roster, we might have had an opportunity to get a look at a greater pool of offensive lineman.
I have to believe that if a quality depth type lineman becomes available, that one of the six receivers will be cut to make room. If we can’t make enough room for a lower quality offensive lineman, then why have we devoted six spots to wide receiver when only one or two of them are really NFL quality?
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Sep 8, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
carrying 8 is not a big deal unless someone signs our practice squad linemen away. then it is a really big deal because you dont have enough to even practice.
our Oline was atrocious and our #1 priority. they added three guys- two replaced people who retired, one is an upgrade and has been hurt. and two of our backups arent good enough to even make the protected 53 man roster or receive a paycheck better than an experienced fedex deliveryman.
those are the facts- a C minus at best
by les boulez bomber on Sep 8, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
And for your information...
It is hard for me to do a Google search, I have to use a voice recognition program. I am crippled by neurological Lyme disease.
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Sep 8, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Having 8 deep on the line...
That says a little about what the coaches think about their chances, doesn’t it? It seems that they expect to be on D alot this year.
what are you talking about. if there were more old (over 36), broken or formerly crippled linemen available this offseason, we certainly would brought them into compete for a spot. they werent available! lol
by les boulez bomber on Sep 8, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Skins Fan - Here is a list of OL mainly of back up quality.
2010 Some Available Offensive Linemen
Rich Ohrnberger | #60 | G http://www.nfl.com/players/richohrnberger/profile?id=OHR444955
2009 4th rd draft pick – 2009 New England Patriots G 3 GS 0
George Bussey | #66 | T http://www.nfl.com/players/georgebussey/profile?id=BUS739834
2009 5th rd draft pick – 2009 no statistics
Cory Procter | #61 | OT http://www.nfl.com/players/coryprocter/profile?id=PRO107702
Season Team G GS
2009 Dallas Cowboys 12 0
2008 Dallas Cowboys 16 11
2007 Dallas Cowboys 16 2
2006 Dallas Cowboys 0 0
2005 Dallas Cowboys 0 0
TOTAL 44 13
Xavier Fulton | # | T http://www.nfl.com/players/xavierfulton/profile?id=FUL758772
2009 5th round draft pick – 2009 no statistics
Seth Olsen | # | OG http://www.nfl.com/players/setholsen/profile?id=OLS327015
2009 4th rd draft pick – 2009 Denver Broncos G 3 GS 0
Chris White | #63 | G http://www.nfl.com/players/chriswhite/profile?id=WHI134939
2009 Houston Texans G 12 GS 8
Chris Morris | #51 | G http://www.nfl.com/players/chrismorris/profile?id=MOR329995
2009 Oakland Raiders G 16 GS 10
2008 Oakland Raiders 16 1
2007 Oakland Raiders 10 0
2006 Oakland Raiders 5 0
TOTAL 47 11
Donald Thomas | #66 | G http://www.nfl.com/players/donaldthomas/profile?id=THO113662
2009 Miami Dolphins G 16 GS 12
2008 Miami Dolphins 1 1
TOTAL 17 13
Michael Toudouze | #75 | OT http://www.nfl.com/players/michaeltoudouze/profile?id=TOU103821
2006 5th rd draft pick
2009 Indianapolis Colts G 2 GS1
2007 Indianapolis Colts 4 0
Fenuki Tupou | #78 | T http://www.nfl.com/players/fenukitupou/profile?id=TUP544943
2009 5th rd draft pick – 2009 IR
Josh Beekman | #67 | G http://www.nfl.com/players/joshbeekman/profile?id=BEE454970
2007 4th rd draft pick
2009 Chicago Bears G 11 GS 4
2008 Chicago Bears G 16 GS 16
2007 Chicago Bears 1 0
James Marten | #72 | OT http://www.nfl.com/players/jamesmarten/profile?id=MAR493380
2007 3rd draft pick
Colin Brown | #61 | G http://www.nfl.com/players/colinbrown/profile?id=BRO356899
2009 5th rd draft pick
Eric Ghiaciuc | #77 | C http://www.nfl.com/players/ericghiaciuc/profile?id=GHI059326
2005 4th rd draft pick
2009 San Diego Chargers 0 0
2008 Cincinnati Bengals 16 16
2007 Cincinnati Bengals 12 12
2006 Cincinnati Bengals 15 13
2005 Cincinnati Bengals 5 1
Ike Ndukwe | #60 | T http://www.nfl.com/players/ikendukwe/profile?id=NDU355964
2009 Kansas City Chiefs G 12 GS 3
2008 Miami Dolphins 16 15
2007 Miami Dolphins 0 0
2007 Baltimore Ravens 0 0
2006 Baltimore Ravens 5 0
2006 Washington Redskins 0 0
2005 Washington Redskins 0 0
by Jefferson1935 on Sep 9, 2010 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Cory Procter | #61 | OT http://www.nfl.com/players/coryprocter/profile?id=PRO107702
Miami Dolphins resigned Cory Procter on 9/9. Jake Grove © cut. Some other team could have claimed him in that 24 hour time span.
by Jefferson1935 on Sep 10, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Jake Grove was the 3rd highest rated center on Professional Football Focus in 2009, but his injury history
resulted in the Dolphins terminating his $14 million contract. http://home.comcast.net/~fwroy/version%202%20NFL%20OL%20talent.html, http://www.nfl.com/players/jakegrove/profile?id=GRO743060, and
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/09/10/groves-injuries-turned-off-dolphins-brass
It remains to be seen who will pick up Grove. While he can’t be relied upon for 16 games, he would be a great backup guard or center.
by Jefferson1935 on Sep 11, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure what the point is?
Most teams carry 9 and 10. If Shanahan thinks that the 9th and 10th aren’t going to make a difference on the active roster, then what is the point of carrying them. Unless of course you think that 5 offensive lineman will get hurt in one game. If that happens then practise squad players can be activated or other lineman can be signed. It almost sounds as if this is the team we are stuck with all year and it’s set in stone.
That extra 1 or 2 players allows shanahan to keep a guy like Banks or Logan who can certainly help with the offense.
by skinsymets on Sep 8, 2010 10:50 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Point is…who are they going to add? It’s not like they can walk to Costco and pick up a starting quality OL. Practice squad players are a huge drop-off and if in-season trades you usually have to kick in more since teams know you’re desperate.
Perhaps Shanny thinks Heyer and Licht are starting quality, but I saw them struggle in pre-season against 2nd and 3rd teamers. Heyer did well at RT from what I saw but even when I talked to him 2 weeks ago at the luncheon, he told me his struggles at LT were from having to learn multiple positions and now he could just focus on one.
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Sep 8, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Make Hicks a backup
And brought in Faneca.
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Sep 8, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
You can't say shit like that...
You don’t think we tried to do that? I would love to trade for Mankins or have signed Clifton, but guess what? That didn’t happen, none of those guys wanted to be here.
So if you were Shanny and camp what would you have done with what was dealt to you?
I can sit here all day and fart rainbows about how we could of signed XYZ lineman, but it wasn’t the Skins lack of effort for missing our on Clifton, Faneca, etc… THEY DIDN’T WANT TO BE HERE!
you're making A LOT of assumptions there
1.) You don’t know we tried to get him.
2.) You don’t know he didn’t want to be here
The truth is they landed McNabb…and real early. Things were changing here…google it. There’s nothing that showed Redskins tried to get him.
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Sep 8, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Faneca was a FA for 2 DAYS! You don’t think we put in a call? He said he wanted to go to the Cards b/c of Russ Grimm and was comfortable with their scheme and was his #1 choice.
It was 2 and 1/2 days!
All the blame really falls on Bruce Allen. Faneca was all about ending his career with Grimm….Bruce could have done his alumni/sales thing and trotted out the legacy and maybe thrown in some club level tickets.
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Sep 8, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
The point is you’re criticizing Shanny for going with 8 OL. If you were him and came to camp with the roster we had what would you have done different? He had to roll with what he has.
It all comes back to Vinny he left us with a bunch of wet paper bags and not enough mid level 2nd, 3rd, 4th rounders to draft halfway decent linemen.
And I agree...WHO are they going to add?
So why keep a 9th and/or 10th lineman on the roster if thats not going to make a difference. Either way, what they have is what they have, as far as starting and backup quality goes. I get your point but what else are they supposed to do? Shanahan was delt this hand, mostly.
If they had kept Capers and another OL on the active roster would you have thought they were backup quality? See my point? Perception is half the battle.
I’m not completely disagreeing with your article at all, I’m just saying Shanahan is putting on the field what he was dealt.
by skinsymets on Sep 8, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I thought Chad Rheinhart
played pretty well before he got hurt (relatively well, I might add). Has he not fully recovered, or is it that he isn’t suited for zone blocking, or does he have issues with pizza parlors not staying open all night?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
LOL
The Rhion-virus was a classic Cerrato pick. Bugle didn’t like him. Shanahan didn’t like him….and I’m pretty sure the folks at the pizza joint weren’t too wild about him, either. (Though the local Miller beer distributor may have been a fan.)
I"m siding with
the local beer distributor. Did Vinny just operate in a vacuum? Just kinda made things up as he went along? We all know he draws a low vacuum. (see posts below a la “fluffing.”)
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
I agree with you ScottE
yes we all loved picking on Rhinehart, but remember it was Zorn (not the greatest football mind of all time) that fed the theory that Chad was not good enough, then when injurys forced him to give Rhinehart a go, he aquitted himself quite well, not great, but OK
Pommylee
The biggest
Zorn (not the greatest football mind of all time)
Down understatement of all time! :)
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Neither skinny or parks seem to get the big picture
The big deal is this: the zone blocking system requires a lot of continuity and repetitions. You are not going to be able to get an effective replacement for the offensive line during the season from the waiver wire or the practice squad; if you think you can then as Kevin says, you must like to play the crap table.
I really think when you look at the experience and the age and history of our starting five linemen, you’d have to agree that carrying nine or 10 on the 53 man roster would be the smart play.
I understand the practice squad players will get to practice this year with the team. But the fact that they were not good enough to make the 53 man roster means they’re not good enough to serve as substitutes in a game right now.
We are dangerously thin on the offensive line, there’s no way you can claim anything else.
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
Oh, and that chart posted above
Made me sick to my stomach. But it seems that historically even before Snyder the Redskins haven’t always been a strong drafting team. They have had some good drafts during the Joe Gibbs years when Bobby and Charlie were around.
I think we can expect more of the same in the future, neither Shanahan or Allen have demonstrated any real drafting genius.
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Sep 8, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
agree
I was really optimistic when I saw Selvish Capers come in with that 7th round pick. I thought he was the project that was going to pay big dividends. I’ve also been watching Lichtensteiger this pre-season and thinking, “damn, I’m glad they have plans for Cook, because this guy is turrible.”
I thought Licht and Heyer were a bridge to Capers and Cook, but that’s a bridge to nowhere no. Seeing Capers and Cook cut, and closing the book on Chad, we suddenly have nothing going on developmentally on the O-line.
It’s a good starting 5, but surely Shan and Allen had something with a little more depth and a little more upside in mind than this??
Remember when people argued that Vinny was a good drafter?
that was funny.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I thought they were saying Vinny
Was a good faffer…. which seemed accurate
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Sep 8, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't know what that means, but I assume it's funny.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
English term "faffing about" or "faffer" very derogatory
Used in a sentence like this: Vinny really was quite useless, all he did was sit in his office and faff about.
That Vinny is a real faffer or, I’ve never seen him do any work at all.
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Sep 8, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Or another definition
Urban Dictionary: faffer
A fussy, indecisive individual, prone to procrastination, dithering between tasks,and who is easily distracted and achieves very little.
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Sep 8, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Funny it's actually on there...
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cerrato
I have no clue where the 1st definition came from but we need to move the other one up…i just thumbs’d it.
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Sep 8, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Worst definition of Cerrato ever...
somebody who deserves more credit than he receives and is often underated.
I would add "poofter" to the mix
as in, “If it weren’t for being a dedicated poofter, Vinny would be the consummate faffer.” Seems to fit….
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
poofter fits Also
If you believe that he is still locked in Dan’s closet wrapped in latex with a ballgag in his mouth
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Sep 8, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Not to get into any debate on Vinny, but
I don’t think he was indecisive. More like rash or impulsive. He got the guys he wanted. The problem was who he wanted, and that depended partly on other players and his own staff.
hmm
so our offensive line is fucked if we have an injury, and our drafting has sucked.
We just get to see the numbers behind it now.
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
so our offensive line is fucked if we have an injury, and our drafting has sucked.
The times are a-changing
laughing so hard I'm crying
…or maybe it’s the other way around
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
I'm doing a little of both
But I think some of my Kool-Aid may have spilled after reading this post.
Are you saying
Vinny was “fluffing in the wind?”
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
not to be a defender of vin but....
what were the other teams average round to pick in? Since our is the worst you would assume we would have a lower retention rate since late round picks are less likely to make the roster (especialy in the first two years since teams arent too fond of dumping early round picks that soon) Also, would assume changing coaches has an affect on things since no loyalty and less likely to keep a pick for the sake of saving face.
Not saying we pick well just saying the ineptitude of vinny trading away good picks (and shanny did that this year too) has to have something to do with it.
428 brothers
I believe Vinny is also to blame
for our average round to pick in as well. Sort of a chicken-and-egg thing there, because he was notorious for trading away our high picks for basically nothing.
I have to say at least
that I am very happy with Trent Williams and Perry Riley. We also picked up Banks and a couple of other guys who weren’t drafted at all, so that is a plus. Finally, I’d have to say that Robert Henson would have made the team had he not gotten injured, which would have helped our numbers in this argument.
Doesn’t really change anything, but there is a lot more going on than just the number of drafted players who make the roster and their draft position. Look at the number of players who were FA’s for example. Oh wait…that really hurts.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
We need to see 'number of draft picks who are starters'
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
i think mark mosely was a third round pick and started for us for many years
by les boulez bomber on Sep 8, 2010 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
vinny was not just a bad talent evaluator after the top 10 clear cut choices. his strategies were seriously flawed- eg, three receivers (2WR and TE) in the second round in the same year??? lol
bottom line- the offensive line should have been addressed in full this offseason and the defensive switch and makeover made in 2011. it is not that complicated. now we find ourselves with major uncertainty and/or thinness on both lines and hope to resign a 33 year old franchise QB. If Dm does not sign during the first half of the season, i m not sure he will if he is running around all the time.
by les boulez bomber on Sep 8, 2010 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
This is the other issue
Does anyone seriously beleive that if we are 2-6 or even 3-5 half way through the season that McNabb has not already got the Vikings on his mind for next year, we’d better be good just to give him a reason to stick around.
And if we do lose him, just remember we gave up JC17 for a 2012 4th Rd Pick
Prepare for the Grossman era!!!
Pommylee
Agree with Kevin and Skins Fan 77 that we badly need another
quality O-lineman, although I wasn’t as worried that they only kept eight on the roster as that there are no good backups at all. If Williams, Brown or Hicks goes down, we’re screwed. In other posts I said we need O-line and WRs, but on reflection, it seems we need O-line a lot more than WRs. Allen probably did his best, but it seems to me that he must have let some good O-line guys get away (and I hope it wasn’t for lack of money). And whether he did or did not, he should be moving heaven and earth to get a good RG or tackle now. I don’t know how or who, but I’d think they can spare some D-line/lb people – AH, Carter or Jarmon.
We need a young backup with some room to grow
I just can’t believe that, out of Cook, Capers, and Rinehart, we couldn’t find one. Robinson and Capers must be coming off of the practice squad this year, right??
They have to be.
What scares me about the practice squad
Is that any team can sign those players to their 53 man roster. If at some point they show potential, I hope that the team is smart enough to sign them to our 53 man roster. I really wonder why we are keeping those six wide receivers. Is the attrition rate worse at wide receiver then it is at running back or offensive/defensive line?
I’m not really questioning any of the players that made the roster, I’m questioning the makeup of the roster in regards to the number of players devoted to the various positions.
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Sep 8, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Good point -
how many hands does it take to catch a ball?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
2 of 6
So sick of the stupid “only two of six draft picks made the roster” argument. Does that mean we didnt get good young talent? Time will tell, but when you have undrafted free agents making it instead, I could care less if they keep a 7th rounder.
by adc20 on Sep 8, 2010 4:53 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
as of right now, we have one known starter out of all our draft picks and unsigned free agents. it is what it seems- not too good…any way you slice it
by les boulez bomber on Sep 8, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
you do not have to wait for time to tell when they are cut. they are gone. you are 100% certain they wont contribute. time wont change that! which undrafted free agent are you speaking about? banks- a guy who fumbled four times and can only return punts for us. i hope you are pinning your arguments on something more than that because i disagree- if they are not starting quality, how do you expect to win meaningfully?
by les boulez bomber on Sep 10, 2010 6:12 AM EDT up reply actions
O-line lack of depth - reasons
I don’t criticize Allen/Shanahan for where we are. I thought we were in pretty good shape just a couple of months ago. But then Big Mike Williams – who I figured for RG (with Hicks backing up everywhere) was lost for the season. Then Capers and Cook proved to be disappointments (apparently, so far). I know many on HH had very high hopes for Capers, and almost everybody assumed he’d be a capable backup. So there are no recriminations. But the reality is that the O-line has little quality depth. They might all stay healthy, but I wish we had one more solid, capable guy. The list above shows there are a lot of reasonable backups available, but I don’t know if any are substantially better than what we have. Is there any chance Capers will suddenly blossom?
i give shanallen a pass too. i think finances played a big role in what they did this offseason for a variety of reasons- expiring cba, AH fiasco, wanting to at least appear to set a precedent, etc. kevin would know, but i think our actual payroll is pretty light this year compared to most teams. i believe it was a conscience decision.
by les boulez bomber on Sep 10, 2010 6:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm trying, beleive me I'm trying
to buy into the Shanahan era, but then he makes quotes like this
“The worst thing people can do is keep a draft pick just to keep a draft pick,” Shanahan said recently. “What you do is you keep the people who give you the best chance to win.”
I’m sorry but we get enough spin from Capitol Hill and the White House in Washington we dont need it from the football team.
What he says cannot be argued with, but it misses the point, he wanted control of personnel and he got it, then he screwed up the draft, but he doesnt say this, what he says is “Dont keep them for the sake of it”
No Mike, DONT DRAFT THEM IF THEY"RE NOT GOOD ENOUGH, thats the real issue.
You had a terrible record on Draft Day in Denver, and ur first Skins draft, other than Williams (and remember we still dont know whether or not Okung was the better pick) is a disaster. And dont cry about them being 6th and 7th rounders, if you know its slim pickings down there, heres a thought, TRADE UP, or better yet, dont use ur 5th rounder on a TE (when we already had 2 potentially elite TE’s), how about this, Trade the 5th and 2 7th’s to move up into the 3rd and get a starting quality Guard, would that have been too much to ask.
But I digress, my point is not what he should have done, my point is that Shanahan is a master media manipulator, see the AH situ. How about he concentrates on evaluating talent rather than media relations.
I read a stat recently that the Skins have fired 8 PR guys under Snyder, well when he eventually sacks Shanahan, make that 9
Pommylee
it would take a lot to fire shanahan- three three win seasons or something. dan likes him and he offers dan legitimacy.
by les boulez bomber on Sep 10, 2010 6:18 AM EDT reply actions

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