Larry Johnson's Day in the Sun
by Kurtstack on Aug 17, 2010 9:49 AM EDT
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Will Larry Johnson make the most of his chance this Saturday?
This Saturday at 7:00 PM, Larry Johnson will get his day in the sun as the feature back to start the game against the Ravens. Apparently, the Redskins are going with a rotation, in which, each of the big name backs will get one game to play with the first team. Larry Johnson will get his audition this Saturday against the Ravens, and the fans and coaches will all have the chance to see whether he still has any of that burst and power that made him a 1700 yard back in Kansas City for two consecutive seasons.
Off the field problems, mileage, and injuries have held Larry back since his 1700 yard days and frankly he wasn't a highly sought after commodity this off-season. That tells me that Larry has a lot to prove, and if he's been training hard and putting in the needed work to be in shape and healthy this off-season, perhaps he could surprise us this Saturday. Personally, I believe he can get back to the point where he is a 50/50 carry type of RB that can put up 900-1000 yards and 6 or 7 TDs if he puts in the needed work. I don't think he's quite over the hill yet, but recently his numbers took a hit because Kansas City's O-line is horrendous. In his short time with Cincinnati last year Larry went from a 2.9 yd/carry average with Kansas City to a 4.4 yd/carry average with the Bengals. His stats from Cincinnati were a respectable 46 carries for 206 yds. So it may not be such a stretch to project those numbers out this year. Perhaps we even end up with two 1,000 yard backs this year. In any case, we'll find out this Saturday whether Larry has a big year left in the tank when he goes up against a tough Baltimore Raven squad. One thing is for certain, the Redskins need at least one of these big name backs to really step it up and take a drink from the fountain of youth this year if they want to be successful.
Oh and I think we'll see a lot of Torrain again once Larry leaves the game. Torrain has done nothing but impress me so far, and I hope he can be part of a tough RB by committe this year for the Skins.
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I wanna see one more game outta williams
if he manages to impress again, I wouldn’t cry if Torrain and Williams replaced Willie and Larry
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
Okay I'm a moron
My first poll and I turned the answers into questions. Anyway you get the idea.
For my part
I think LJ will push for “starting” carries, but Shanahan is going to cater just enough to CP to keep him happy. Both of these backs should have 750+ yards if we have any chance of making the playoffs.
by Ken Meringolo on Aug 18, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
If we start pulling 2000 plus yards rushing...
Donovan could be with us a little more often, and longer, than we might think.
I just want him to stop abusing women.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
But we could use those talents
Week 1
by CarverM on Aug 17, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
That was pretty good I'll admit. Clever
Semper Fi Do or Die
Projected 2010 Record: 12-4. You heard it here first
A good write up on the cut back blocking technique employed by Shanahan.
Redskins’ blockers cut to chase -
http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2010/082010/08172010/569013
Rick Campbell did a good job of explaining how it works.
by Jefferson1935 on Aug 17, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Zone blocking
Is infamous for the cut back. You get the offensive line flowing one way, and once the RB hits a hole, you get the defense flowing in that same direction, and towards the RB, that it is a big home run threat with the cut back.
Zone blocking is the easiest system to run. It requires only the offensive lineman to get on a man and keep him from getting free, and a running back to hit a hole and really only needs to make one cut to hit a long TD. Zone blocking is great for weak offensive lines and running backs, because there is never a set hole, just a direction for the flow. With so much freedom, there is lots of room for success.
My take, and a quicker summary, of zone blocking.
by BigOLinemen on Aug 17, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
" His stats from Cincinnati were a respectable 46 carries for 206 yds. So it may not be such a stretch to project those numbers out this year."
I love that illogic. 22 of his carries and 107 of his yards came against the Browns. I’d totally be down to project those numbers to this year if he played behing Cincy’s line against the Browns every game.
excuse me
Should say play against the Browns every other game. I’d be more impressed if he was consistent the non Browns games. He was super boom or bust and only performing well against the Chargers(Horrible run D) or the Jets in the last game of the season.
by BayAreaBullet on Aug 17, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Clinton Portis
Hasn’t averaged better than 4.3 yds/carry since he’s been a Redskin. Clinton is 2 years younger but has a lot more mileage than Larry Johnson (roughly 700 carries more than LJ) so we definitely have a healthy competition here, IMHO.
I don’t think so, this is CPs job and i think there is no way that he’s not the starting RB on week 1. I like the depth but I wish we had a change of pace back…
by Parks Smith on Aug 18, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
You might be right
But I do think that Shanahan will likely use a running back by committee approach, so who ends up starting the first game may not really mean all that much. I do believe that LJ has time to make a case for himself. But that all hinges on how he performs Saturday. This is a very important game for LJ, as the first game was for Portis.
He still averaged....
4.125 yards per carry on the other carries as opposed to 4.863 against the Browns. Do the math….you get 3 downs to go 10 yards…..you avg 4 yards a carry…..holy shit….2 yards extra. Would you rather have Brandon Jacobs? How bout Glen Coffee before he retired…2.7 yards per carry. Steve Slaton maybe? Every back has up and down games….fact is….he still averaged an acceptable yards per carry for a backup. He isn’t young and flashy….but you know what you got.
Look at the game logs
Here are the teams he played and their respective ranks in Run D(based on ypa)
Oakland – 28th
Cleveland – 29th
Detroit – 21st
Minny – 6th
SDG – 24th
KC – 31st
NYJ – 4th
Does that look like our schedule this year? He only got more ypc than his opponents averaged giving up 3 out of 7 times. How is that impressive? He was behind one of the best rushing lines in football playing against the dregs of the league and was wildly inconsistent. You think it’s fair to project that for this year? What we do know is that the run game in KC blew up as soon as he was removed.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnLa00/gamelog/
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/yardsPerRushAttempt/position/defense
by BayAreaBullet on Aug 18, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
BayArea, your second link suggest that three NFL Divisions had about the best rushing defenses in 2009.
AFC North, NFC East, NFC North – The Jets were an exception.
by Jefferson1935 on Aug 18, 2010 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
with what......
46 carries in 7 games…..so 6.57 carries a game. That’s not a very big sample to make a case for calling someone illogical. What were the situations he was running? Pretty sure he wasn’t the feature back so third and shorts and mediums prolly were the his downs. It could be anything….the simple fact is….we haven’t seen what he can do for us THIS year! We get to find out against the Ravens. If he blows….I will be the first one to say it. I just want to get the point across to LJ haters…..wait and see what he can do for us this year. Last year doesn’t matter…the year before that doesn’t matter. It’s about now…..at least let the guy take a snap!
"How is that impressive?"
I think you are blowing this WAY OUT OF CONTEXT. My exact phrases were:
“His stats from Cincinnati were a respectable 46 carries for 206 yds”
“So it may not be such a stretch to project those numbers out this year.”
Let’s be clear. I’m not declaring stardom or huge fantasy numbers for Larry Johnson yet. The point of this article is that Saturday is a big day for him to show what he can do. I threw out that statistical nugget just to shine a ray of hope that he has something left, and frankly that’s probably why we brought him in here. So this is his chance to prove it. Let’s not get caught up in scrutinizing and overanalyzing 46 carries last season. We all should be pulling for him to impress Saturday, because if he does have something left it will only benefit the skins this year.
Kurt
I was pointing out that it is a stretch to project those numbers this year. From a simple statistical viewpoint that is a really small sample size and when looked at carefully doesn’t lend itself to projecting out to our team this year over 16 games. I get it was Kool-Aid time though and I was making a point that I don’t think we can project it. My “How is that impressive?” was in response to shvd and I wasn’t trying to imply that you were declaring stardom.
Shvd – If you would read I was pointing out it was a super small sample that was unduly influenced by the quality of opponents and 1 specific game. The illogic was the idea that super small, biased sample size could be extrapolated to this season. So thanks for agreeing with me. Also if last year doesn’t matter(When he was an awful team cancer), and the year before, what does? The fact that he broke 1,000 yards 4 years ago? If he does well I will be happy, I don’t expect much because he was mostly below average with the Bungles, his replacement in KC set an NFL rushing record last year behind the same line, not to mention he doesn’t play teams, is a poor reciever and a notoriously bad blocker. Of course the fact that he was a beast 4 years ago is all the Little Vinnies need. I’m not rooting against him just not a member of the large part of the fanbase that is only concerned with the big name.
by BayAreaBullet on Aug 19, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah sorry if I misconstrued what you were saying it was not my intention
I just hear people say repeatedly “I don’t think he’s quite over the hill yet, but recently his numbers took a hit because Kansas City’s O-line is horrendous.” Or that we can project his Cincy numbers to this season and I don’t follow the logic. If KC’s line was the cause of his problems how come Jamal Charles was setting NFL rushing records behind it? “Charles also became the only player in NFL history to rush for 1,100 or more yards in 200 or fewer carries. He also became the only running back in NFL history to rush average 5.9 yards per carry, run 1000 yards and catch 40 balls” Maybe Charles is the next LT but I have trouble blaming LJ’s mediocrity on that line when for 2 years Charles has been averaging over 5 ypc per carry behind it and LJ hasn’t broken 1,000 yards since 2006. It’s more a matter of me not agreeing with the logic(I would argue faulty) that people use to boost him than me trying to convince anyone he sucks.
by BayAreaBullet on Aug 19, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Charles
Yeah Jamaal Charles is extremely explosive. I think he is a very talented back. I think part of the problem with LJ in Kansas City was his attitude and lack of motivation. Whatever the case may be he has another shot to prove he can still play in this league. And if he can’t I like the young guys we have on the roster. Fresh young legs seem to be winning out these days in the NFL over older veteran experience. You lose half a step in this league as a running back and your career could be over.
Bay.....
My point is I see where Kurt was coming from….there’s nothing wrong with a little Kool-Aid from time time. My problem is….we simply haven’t seen anything from him with the Skins yet. If you read your own post….it comes across as completely anti-LJ and although his past would allow that for some….I just don’t think it’s fair at this point w/out him taking a single snap. From everything I have seen…he is having a great camp….I haven’t heard anything since we have signed him about anything negative. I am not saying to project any numbers….I couldn’t even hazard a guess as to how it comes out….I just know I am fine with him being our #2 if he earns it. As far as what matters…..nothing….until he takes snaps with our team. Imagine if Cedric Benson wasn’t given a chance in Cincy! What if Ricky Williams never got back in the league? That’s my point…lets actually SEE what he can do…then pass a judgment that comes across as biased as yours appeared to me. Maybe I read it wrong…..I will start passing my judgment after Saturdays game. Fact that we are facing the Ravens definitely doesn’t help his cause….if he averages 4.5+ yards a carry against their starters……does that project well for you?
I really wish you would read before responding, it is quite tiresome
I never disqualified him from doing anything this year. I just pointed out there were certain arguments made that I did not think were especially valid and then demonstrated why. If the facts and numbers I used seemed Anti-LJ to you then it speaks more about you and LJ than my viewpoint. It’s not like anything was made up. You indulge in straw man arguments and pretty much distorted an interesting discussion between me and Kurt and you don’t even make your fake arguments very persuasively. If you weren’t so LJP like and actually read stuff you wouldn’t be flip flopping and having nonsensical arguments with yourself.
I have no clue what he will do this year. I have offered no projections. Who knows what to expect? In his 7 year career he has had 2 great seasons and 5 mediocre ones. His last 3 years have been marred by injury and sustained bouts of mediocrity and is less than a year removed from being a cancer and booted from the Chiefs like he gave them Herpes. Could that all be behind him and he stays healthy and runs well enough to make up for his limitations in other facets of the game? Sure stranger things have happened(though your Benson and Williams examples are in no way analagous). That can be said about any player on the roster. We will have to wait for the season he is a total wild card. And No, I will not make projections based on 10-12 carries in a preseason game whether he does well or stinks it up.
by BayAreaBullet on Aug 20, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Where did I flip flop?
I was having a serious discussion….not name calling! Trying to see where you are coming from. I am not a huge LJ fan but am a huge Skins fan….if I can’t come on here and have a discussion to educate myself, where do I go? I am glad that you see it all as an argument! A “fake argument” at that…..I simply stated my opinion and asked yours in return. Nothing smart-ass……nothing cynical……just sharing my opinion. Get off your high-horse…or whatever the hell bay area people get on!
Bay
“No, I will not make projections based on 10-12 carries in a preseason game whether he does well or stinks it up.”
While you may not make a decision about LJ based on one pre-season game, this is basically his one game of the pre-season as featured back. I trust Shanahan will make a well informed decision at the end of pre-season, but LJ could do a lot for himself this Saturday in his featured roll. This is our chance to see if he has a chip on his shoulder and something to prove. Some of the best performances come from guys with chips on their shoulders. He’s been quiet with off-season stuff this year so I’m hoping he’s been focused completely on his training, and has perhaps learned some lessons. I won’t make any proclamations after Saturday, but I’d love to see him explode to really heat up this RB competition. Competition can be the key to a successful season. These guys need to push each other. I love that CP is silent too. These guys all have something to prove.
Kurt
shvd asked me “if he averages 4.5+ yards a carry against their starters……does that project well for you?” so thats why I said what I did. I want to see him do well but whether he does or not I am not gonna start making projections. We are in agreement pretty much I was just answering shvd not saying this weekend isn’t important to LJ in terms of impressing Shanny.
Shvd – Originally Kurt made the argument(which is espoused regularly on HH) that LJ’s production suffered because KC’s O-line sucked and that it’s not a stretch to project his Cincy numbers to this year. I said I don’t think that holds up under scrutiny as LJ’s backup broke multiple NFL records behind KC’s line and LJ’s Cincy numbers were super skewed due to small sample size. That was the only thing I was discussing. Whether or not those 2 points had validity. You come in all “Give him a chance” like the “Leave Britney Alone” guy on youtube. I never made any predictions for this year or discounted the possibility of him playing well so I have no idea why you got all emotional like I was advocating him to be cut or shutting the door on any possibility of him doing well. That’s a straw man argument.
You trumpet his numbers with Cincy and then when I illustrate how those weren’t particluary impressive given the sample size and quality of opponents all the sudden your story changes and it’s now “too small of a sample size” which is what I was saying all along if you read instead of LJP’ing. I don’t like straw man arguments and would appreciate you didn’t engage in them. If you don’t like me articulating that then have the decency not to pull that shit. Also we don’t have High Horses in the Bay, we just get high.
by BayAreaBullet on Aug 20, 2010 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
LJ - limited?
I gather from two different analyses that LJ is a pure straight ahead power runner – few changes of direction, not a good pass blocker. You might think that a runner like that would tend to wear out quickly if he played much. So maybe a third down, short yardage guy, if his blocking is good enough for passing situations?
Just on the surface
I like LJ in short yardage more than CP; although a lot of that is based on last year and may not be fair to CP.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
I thought that was the point....
with LJ, ……Portis was not a power back with Shanny. We did not have the franchise with Gibbs #2 or his hard hitting pounding style that opitimized his SuperBowl yeras and CP’s numbers suffered, and he took a lot of abuse……it irritates me that he is going to pass some of Riggo’s numbers…..Champ was/is more valuable.
Champ IS still valuable
I was watching him in preaseason over the weekend and he’s still damn good
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
It's true
Champ is one of the best CBs to ever play the game. It’s a shame we couldn’t keep him here.
Like we kept
one of the few guys who could play CB at his level. Darryl Green.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
I know it's a common perception that he is better short yardage guy than CP
But it might be myth. Last year they both averaged 2.5 yards between the tackles(only RB in the league who was worse was Willy at 2.4)
by BayAreaBullet on Aug 18, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
In one article, Johnson's practice plays showed that he had good vision.
Instead of going straight ahead, he saw that Paulsen had sealed the end, so Johnson broke it to outside for 30 yards.
by Jefferson1935 on Aug 18, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
This is the type of running that got LJ 1700 yards twice in his career. He should not be pidgeon holed as a straight forward power back. Frankly I haven’t noticed much vision or cut back ability from Portis lately. I can pretty much count on him riding sellers back down the field. Doesn’t take much vision or talent to stick your nose in the back of your FB and push him forward as far as you can go.
It is a bit worrisome, that.
That’s why I was so pleasantly surprised by Torrain and K Williams.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
LJ is a limited back
in that he is an atrocious blocker and is not much of a pass catcher so he has little value outside of being the bell cow.
by BayAreaBullet on Aug 18, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Blocking is why CP is the man
but they have 4-5 backs that can move the chains..and nobody dinged yet
I will admit
I’ve never analyzed LJ’s blocking, so I’ll have to take your word that it is “atrocious”. I will be watching for that this Saturday. I do know that CP is a “great blocker,” and that is what I love about CP.
If you follow John Keim's training camp studs and duds
He shows up in the duds section a couple times a week from completely whiffing on blocks. He like alot of beat guys routinely refers to the fact that LJ has always been considered a horrible blocker. So it’s not really my word. Sorry if I’m being too negative.
by BayAreaBullet on Aug 19, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
LJ and our whole rushing attack.looked like poo poo....
CP looked okay on his few runs but everyone else looked bad. Somewhat disappointing after last week but to be expected with the step-up in opponent I guess! Willie Parker and Larry Johnson were something like 3 yards on 9 carries. Makes me kinda of hope the backfield is CP, Torain, and K. Williams!
LJ
I actually saw how bad LJs blocking really is in this game. And he didn’t make up for that poor blocking with any kind of run game. At this point, I think he should be cut in favor of one of the young guys.
Agree....
I never really paid much attention to his blocking in the past….but it is ridiculously bad. And again….you are damned well right he didn’t make up for it with his running. Then CP comes in on spot duty….2 rushes for 14 yards! EMBARRASSING!
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