San Diego Chargers Wide Receiver Vincent Jackson's Breakout Season Didn't Come Until His Fourth Year in the NFL
by Tiller56 on Jul 4, 2010 9:11 AM EDT
Email
Print
With all the recent trade talk involving Vincent Jackson from the San Diego Chargers to the Washington Redskins, I decided to look a little further into the stud wide receiver's career stats and accomplishments. As it usually takes 2-3 years for an NFL wide receiver to make an impact in the league, I wanted to see if Jackson has followed the status quo, or if he has bucked the trend.
His stats are after the jump.
| Year | Team | G | Rec | Yds | Avg | Yds/G | Lng | TD | 20+ | 40+ | 1st | FUM |
| 2009 | San Diego Chargers | 15 | 68 | 1,167 | 17.2 | 77.8 | 55 | 9 | 17 | 4 | 58 | 0 |
| 2008 | San Diego Chargers | 16 | 59 | 1,098 | 18.6 | 68.6 | 60 | 7 | 16 | 7 | 52 | 1 |
| 2007 | San Diego Chargers | 16 | 41 | 623 | 15.2 | 38.9 | 45 | 3 | 10 | 1 | 28 | 0 |
| 2006 | San Diego Chargers | 16 | 27 | 453 | 16.8 | 28.3 | 55 | 6 | 7 | 2 | 19 | 0 |
| 2005 | San Diego Chargers | 8 | 3 | 59 | 19.7 | 7.4 | 21 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 3 | 0 |
| TOTAL | 71 | 198 | 3,400 | 17.2 | 47.9 | 60 | 25 | 52 | 14 | 160 | 1 | |
Vincent Jackson was a second round draft choice (61st overall) of the San Diego Chargers in the 2005 NFL Draft.
Sound familiar? Didn't the Washington Redskins have TWO WR's selected in the 2nd round of the 2008 Draft?
Below are is 2005 NFL combine stats:
| Pre-draft measureables | |||||||||
| Weight | 40 yd | 20 ss | 3-cone | Vert | BP | Wonderlic | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 241 lb (109 kg)* | 4.49s | 4.08s | 6.84[1] | 39 in (99.1 cm)* | 23 | 33*[2] | |||
Jackson got off to a slow start in 2005 due to injuries. He was inactive for the first five games of the season and finally saw his first NFL action in an October 16th game against the Oakland Raiders. He caught his first pass on November 6th against the New York Jets, but he would only catch two more passes for the rest of the season.(Wikipedia)
If i'm not mistaken, didn't the Redskins have a receiver named Malcolm Kelly who got off to a slow start his rookie year due to injuries?
To be fair to our two 3rd year wideouts, Malcolm Kelly and Devin Thomas, let's compare their stats thus far in their careers.
Malcolm Kelly:
6' 4" 227
40 time - 4.57
| Season | Team | Receiving | Rushing | Fumbles | |||||||||||
| G | GS | Rec | Yds | Avg | Lng | TD | Att | Yds | Avg | Lng | TD | FUM | Lost | ||
| 2009 | Washington Redskins | 16 | 10 | 25 | 347 | 13.9 | 84 | 0 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- |
| 2008 | Washington Redskins | 5 | 0 | 3 | 18 | 6.0 | 7 | 0 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- |
| TOTAL | 28 | 365 | 13.0 | 84 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | |||
Devin Thomas:
6'2" 215
40 time - 4.38
| Season | Team | Receiving | Rushing | Fumbles | |||||||||||
| G | GS | Rec | Yds | Avg | Lng | TD | Att | Yds | Avg | Lng | TD | FUM | Lost | ||
| 2009 | Washington Redskins | 14 | 10 | 25 | 325 | 13.0 | 40 | 3 | 3 | -2 | -0.7 | 2 | 0 | -- | -- |
| 2008 | Washington Redskins | 16 | 1 | 15 | 120 | 8.0 | 18 | 0 | 3 | 53 | 17.7 | 29T | 1 | -- | -- |
| TOTAL | 40 | 445 | 11.1 | 40 | 3 | 6 | 51 | 8.5 | 29 | 1 | 0 |
0 |
|||
Besides the touchdown's, the production of Thomas and Kelly don't look too different from that of Vincent Jackson during his first 2 yeras in San Diego. All three of the receivers mentioned are at least 6'2" and 215 lbs; pretty large in comparison to NFL standards. What needs to be pointed out is that Jackson played his first 2 seasons under head coach Marty Schottenheimer. Thomas and Kelly, on the other hand, played their first 2 season under head coach Jim Zorn. Think that makes a difference? Apparently, even Marty recognized the mismatch Jackson could cause in the redzone, hence the 6 TD catches his second year. Zorn, on the other hand, chose to try the fake FG approach that has now become infamous with his demise.
My point here needs to be noted. I'm not saying that we have the next Vincent Jackson on the Redskins in either Malcolm Kelly or Devin Thomas. I am, however, comparing their stats for the first two season of their careers, and have noticed a parallel.
So take this for what it is worth. Don't be so quick to look over what we already have on our football team. The grass might not always be greener on the other side of the fence. Trading away our future for something we may already have seems too risky for me.
Those fans out there who say Malcolm Kelly should be released due to his poor productivity over his first two seasons, should take a step back, reconsider their feelings, and be open to giving this player a true chance, under a real head coach, because you just never know what he can turn out to be.
53 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Nice article.
I agree, I’d like to see our draft picks and young players develop… It would be a refreshing change from Dan/Vinny coveting the high priced, prima donas on other teams.
Antonio Pierce in NY made me especially ill.
My give a damn broke.
by davesomethin on Jul 4, 2010 9:23 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Completely agree
Several wide recievers take a while to develop after they are drafted. It is equally important to note that Vincent Jackson no doubt benefitted from several other factors as well (catching passes from Rivers, a very strong ground threat to take pressure off of the passing game).
I think we need some sort of executive order or congressional action banning our trade of any more draft picks until we at least make the playoffs.
Might as well see what Kelly can contribute.
Yes, a nice read
Good thinking. With a (hopefully) vastly improved offensive line and a (hopefully) vastly improved offensive plan and a more seasoned QB, both Kelly and Thomas may very well flourish. It was kind of hard for Campbell too throw deep when he was on his back before the intended receiver could get deep.
Jeebus Christ
THANK YOU TILLER!!
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
I think
we should give it one more year with the guys we have and if they still don’t step up we can make a big trade next off season. I think with the combination of McNabb and Shanahan the receivers will be better…. hell the whole damn team will be better!!
Wow (Chargers fan)
That is a exceptional 3 cone time at that weight for Vjack. They say he’s supposed to be 225 these days but I dont buy it. I have a feeling at least one of those young receivers will turn out to be a beast, it’s amazing what a good QB will do to a receivers stats and confidence. My guess would be Kelly who absolutely abused the Chargers in week 17
IMO
I don't think I could agree with you more
Too many people are looking down on Thomas and Kelly, and I just don’t think either have been given that full starting opportunity. Sure, both have started, but neither has been the #1 target before. Devin Thomas has incredible talent: good speed, routes, hands, and yard after catch ability. I really think he is bound to be a great NFL receiver. Malcolm Kelly lacks on the speed department, but he has incredible hands and size. If he can work up his speed a little better then it is now, he has the same potential as Devin.
Both still have so much potential because of their work ethics and their (non-diva) attitudes. The only thing that will slow them is injuries.
Didn't Kelly have some character concerns before we drafted him?
I’m not sure if those so-called character concerns were created by the media (either that or overblown) or were really true. Nevertheless, I’m glad they haven’t manifested in a negative way during his tenure here.
I’m hoping that Devin and Malcolm can become Jacksonesque without the baggage. They seem like pretty good guys (character wise) and I’m hoping that their production on the field can improve. And I’m REALLY hoping that they weren’t another Snyderatto mistake. I don’t know if they have the same ceiling as Fred Davis, but again, I hope they do.
Great post, Tiller. Thanks! Happy 4th of July everyone!
I'm back. YAY SUMMER!
I don't remember hearing
anything about Malcolm having any character issues
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
Well, here's an article
But after reading it and looking at some of the comments I’m convinced it’s total media BS.
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/10/malcolm-kellys-attitude-is-worse-than-his-40-time/
I'm back. YAY SUMMER!
#1 and #2
- Character…hints of character concerns from 3 years ago don’t concern me…well there is the modeling thing, but thats different concern, 2 years in a frutrated scheme with big money…i am ok with how they act. Reason #14 why we should dump Albert…and Shanny is the man to say F the dumbS….we are here to lay ball….he has been around long enough to understand the Redskins legacy and understands what it means to return it to glory…I don’t care how good he “could” be on the field, he does not fit into the template (sorry, and I thought I had that out of my system by now)….#2 They are good talented young athletes trying to make a good living at something they love….it is not their fault when and where they got drafted……and they might even read this from time to time….to call them "another syderato mistake is insulting and shortsighted, yes he made some mistakes…ok a lot…..if you are going to call Wr’s a mistake after 2 yrs under Zorn and the line last yr….go root for the Colts (wait you can bitch there too cuz that window is closing)….we have huge talent on this team.
Leading up to the 2008 draft,
both Kelly and Thomas were highly regarded. It is true that Kelly had known knee problems and that was a good reason to bypass on him.
by Jefferson1935 on Jul 5, 2010 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions
WE SHALL SEE....(but don't hold your breath)
Okay. Early July is as good a time for optimism as any…but if Kelly & Thomas don’t start to REALLY SHINE in this Shanahan-squared (Mike & Kyle) offense, then they’ll be written off as just two more bad choices by Cerrato and one or both of them may get cut.
Maybe it was Zorn’s “stay medium” approach…or his just plain lousy offense, but if a receiver can’t get on the field with the Shanahans running the show, it’s probably because he can’t play!
Devlin Thomas's rushing game more than likely will be on a par with Jackson's rushing game .
Jackson rushing success has varied from season to season with 2008 being his best.
Rushing
Year Team………………… G …Att ..Att/G ..Yds ..Avg ..Yds/G ..TD ..Lng ..1st ..1st% ..20+ ..40+ ..FUM
2009 San Diego Chargers 15 …3 ….0.2 ….11.. ..3.7 ….0.7 .. ..0 ….12 ….1 ….33.3 …0 …..0 ….0
2008 San Diego Chargers 16 …4 ….0.2 ….69 …17.3 ….4. ….0 ….31 ….3 ….75.0 …1 …..0 ….0
2007 San Diego Chargers 16 …—
2006 San Diego Chargers 16 …3 ….0.2 ….16 …5.3 ….1.0 ….0 ….8 ….0 ……0.0 ….0 ….0 ….0
2005 San Diego Chargers ..8 …—
TOTAL……………………. 71…10 ….0.1 ….96 …9.6 ….1.4 ….0 …31 ….4 ….40.0 …1 ….0….0
Also
Both Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly are males. Vincent Jackson is also a male. There is a reasonable chance…
by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Jul 5, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree
All three played college football and then moved on to the Pros too.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Good Job Tiller
Everything I have ever read about WRs says that they don’t come into their own until the second or third year. Go Skins!
Happy 4th Everyone
and then some fans just randomly vent at 2 am....
Red and White……Blue Suede Shoes…I’m Uncle Sam…How doo ya doo?
happy independence day Bay!!!
I disagree
To compare Jackson & Kelly/Thomas even remotely, i feel like this is textbook cherrypicking, Not impugning your effort or your good faith Tiller, but it just seems ridiculous to make this parallel or statement like “reconsider trading away a possible part of our future” based on these narrow comparisons.
Height plus strength equals a legitimate tall threat in the end zone. Jackson’s combine BP was 23, Kelly managed only 14 reps at the combine, and Thomas declined to even try at the combine and managed only 16 at Michigan State. The NFL’s past & present is littered with tall wide receivers whom were merely that, tall, but didn’t have any rudimentary work ethic when it came to capitalizing on their height by making themselves physically imposing rather than tall and lackadaisical, like our two. Our two, like Dwayne Jarrett, aren’t even reliable possession receivers, let alone giving us any comprehensive, objective criteria to hope for either a Vincent Jackson or a player remotely close, in my opinion. Furthermore, despite the dumpster fire that was Jim Zorn and the successful albeit prickly Schottenheimer demonstrates a gulf in terms of coaching talent, I think it’s overstating it a bit to say Zorn’s bad, Schotty’s generally good, and even under generally good Schotty Jackson took time to come into form. More specifically, I think you have to evaluate the player’s efforts in a vacuum in order to form a more complete sketch of what is yet to come. For two years, people (and I’m respectfully going to make a generalization based on nothing more than an inference/assumption) of your persuasion, or at least big talkers here have given us rave reviews about what is yet to come based on their opinion of Kelly & Thomas during the preseason, only for reality to rudely interrupt that fairytale and by season’s beginning everyone learn that both for 2 preseasons have shown up unimproved and out of shape relative to what they should have looked like if they had physically developed themselves. Jackson on the other hand was already strong and physically appears to have further matured (even though I guess there is a question of his character’s maturity, I’d take him in a heartbeat for our two lazy sacks). Kelly and Thomas have been consistently lazy, shown up out of shape, and because of that were quickly and easily injured during the season.
Again, i understand you’re not saying they’re the next Vincent Jackson, or that their statistics are identical, and that you’re only attempting to make the point that there is some kind of parallel. I just think the parallel is too thin to hold water.
by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Jul 4, 2010 5:39 PM EDT reply actions
Combine means exactly nothing now.
Third year in the NFL, combine numbers should be by the wayside. And that’s the question at the heart of all of this, how much have these two developed through last year and into this offseason? If you can accurately answer that question and tell me how much development Kelly and Thomas have made (or haven’t made), your response is valid. Otherwise, we’re going to have to wait and see if this third year pattern holds true. But so far, all you’ve shown is that their development is incomplete in their first two years; exactly what the original poster posits is the natural development curve.
Also
I don’t know where it has been said that they are consistently lazy and out of shape. Yeah, I know as rookies they came in that way, but I’ve had the impression that both are working hard. Maybe I’m wrong there, but, I think it is way too harsh to act like these guys are gonna be complete busts.
For VJ being so strong,
he can’t hold his liquor very well.
DT & MK
We just have to wait and see. I don’t think the comparison to VJ means much. VJ started slow and got good. Many others start slow and stay slow. Starting slow doesn’t, on its own, mean one is going to get good. It just means they might. So, as you say, we shouldn’t give up on them – they could still blossom. I wonder what the new coaches see? They seem to be bringing in a lot of receivers.
Don't forget
We lost 2 WR’s that were on the 53 man roster last lear(Mitchell and Randel El), and we only drafted 1 WR(Austin). I’m sure that why we have brought in so many WR’s.
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
DT & MK
Good point – they’re probably just creating competition. I think WR is the most interesting position battle left.
Also, one other case of a breakout season soon
Mike Sims-Walker of the Jags. He just pulled an 850yd, 60 reception season. Not elite, but definitely a good year. 3rd year in the league. Year before, 200yds, 15 receptions, and before that, no playing time at all. Walker was a 3rd rounder, Thomas a 2nd. Walker was also injured often in his first two years, just as Devin and Kelly. If you want to look at the combine, Sims was similar to stats Devin put, with just slightly better 40s and bench. For the most part, him and Thomas are physically identical. A good sized, speed receiver. I think this is a more appropriate comparison then DT and Vincent Jackson; however, one key difference is that Sims-Walker is two years older then Devin, so maturity is still there. But for sure, if Sims-Walker can bust out, with his similarities to Devin, DT has the same potential, maybe more.
Ok one more then I am done....listen close...
How many WRs on the Saints would you drop those kind of picks for…….they just won the superbowl…..hoe about older QBs in a revitalized atmosphere? Brett just had the best season of his career…at 40, could you even name those recievers in 2008? year before Kurt Warner reborn…..set the tone for the team….we have talent.
Trending is like apples and oranges...
Most of us before the draft were leaning on offensive line help as my case was. Even before McNab was brought in I noticed people wanted Bradford to be drafted since Campbell was not going to be the answer in D.C. Since then we have upgraded the QB position and drafted Trent Williams and made a nice trade with the Saints to get more O-Line power. The RB position seems to be a lot better for now since their are no injuries there as of today. I spent some time thinking that Kelly and Thomas would have to break out this year in order for the Skins to get back on the win chart, mostly with the improvement the Skins have made I see it possible that 10 wins is in reach if all goes well. Great article written it may confirm that the Skins have the ability to win again but I still see a building process that needs to take place and time will tell where to add to the puzzle.
This is the best post I’ve seen at HogsHaven. Yes, we tend to be impatient. Partly this is due to past draft failures like D Howard and M Westbrook.
So many reasons to think our receivers will have more chance to be productive this year, not the least of which are the new offensive tackles.
Nothing on Tiller, but really, best post?
You should come here more often. This isn’t a “bad” read/attempt/theory of arg, but it certainly isn’t the best buddy
by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Jul 5, 2010 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions
This isn't a bad post, but I don't even think this is Tiller's best post on here
There’s alot of good content if you filter thru the LJP posts
I like VJ as much as anyone, but to think that going after a WR who is going to miss several games for suspension and demand a HUGE contract is better than having two young up and coming WR’s who are just hitting their productivity is a mistake.
I like Campbell a lot, but he is clearly not the leader that McNabb is. Zorn’s a nice enough fellow; he isn’t going to get the same level of performance from his players are Shannahan would. The team as a whole is motivated and ready to start winning. If that isn’t enough to get these guys motivated to perform than I suppose they will be gone sooner than later. But I think that we have to give them a chance at this point.
Plus don’t forget that both Kelley and Thomas made some nice plays last year near the end of the season when they actually got on the field. They flashed enough for me to think that with McNabb and a vastly improved line and perhaps running game that they will be productive. Heck I’d be more interested in their run blocking at this point. If either one can block well they’ll help the offense considerably.
I like the idea of these two on the outside with Moss in the slot in a Welker type role. I also love the idea of a heavier set with Cooley and Davis attacking the LB’s and safeties in the division. I think that we have more than enough weapons to move the ball and now that we have a line that should be able to protect a proven decision maker we can make some noise.
If they can’t improve with McNabb than they won’t ever be any good.
by It's Always Sunny in DC on Jul 5, 2010 2:58 PM EDT reply actions
Salary cap
I blame all of this on the salary cap. Until the advent of the salary cap and the corresponding focus on every players salary it was commonplace and common knowledge that WR’s and QB’s usually take 2-3 years to develop. However, if a highly drafted WR or QB isn’t an overnight sensation nowadays there is an immediate clamor of a highly drafted bust. It’s just not realistic at the two positions. Highly drafted QB’s and WR’s that are overnight sensations are the exception not the rule.
Excellent point
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
Couldn’t agree more.
And it isn’t like anyone else in our WR corps was amazing the last 2 seasons. Take away Moss and it was a pretty bleak performance for everyone else.
by It's Always Sunny in DC on Jul 5, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
And Moss wasn't particularly impressive, either.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
DT&MK
Well, for better or worse, they’re being given a great chance – three years – to show something – and that is with fairly modest competition.
Let's see
Between Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly, over 2 years of character-rehabilitating/inspiring preseason work resulting in nagging injuries to hamper their seasons, they have cumulatively produced three touchdowns, all 3 by Thomas, 2 of which came against the 26th ranked defense, 1 of which came against the 17th ranked pass defense. Just saying. Wow. I just find it very difficult to fit myself into the label of unreasonable cynic. In my opinion, like the rave reviews of Thomas and Kelly in preseasons past, everyone parroting this Pollyanna-esque opine of these two disappointments, rose-colored glasses all ’round
by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Jul 5, 2010 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't forget that
Hunter the Punter was our leading scorer or tied for it for most of the season. The offense stunk all the way around and that tempers your point a bit. Had we an OLine and a QB who could make receivers look good, the numbers would have been way different.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
That's interesting
it’s true our offensive line stunk, but really, we did still have Campbell. I’m not saying Campbell was Drew Brees and could make a Terrence Copper out of Thomas or Kelley, but that our offense stunk was true but i think misses that we did still have a QB who could reasonably get the ball to a receiving player.
If we had JaMarcus Russell or Andrew Walter under center for over 2 years, it would be understandable why our two purported “building blocks of the future” according to those who astoundingly can still don rose-colored glasses when looking at these two whom have developed hampering injuries during significant parts of 2 seasons because of their lack of work ethic in the offseason and preseason, have numbers worse than Johnnie Lee Higgins. But we had Campbell, who certainly isn’t a Brees, but he’s no straight-up Jared Lorenzen. I just think if there’s a grain of truth in the production from these two, it’s that with a dumpster fire offensive scheme, terrible offensive line, but average QB, they could not make anything happen, and young players who are legit “building blocks” can make more happen than these two have demonstrated statistically
by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Jul 6, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand your point
But that offensive line still made Campbell’s life hell. When all you’ve got is the time to check your #1 and #2 receivers, who are you gonna check? Obviously you gotta check Moss, because he has incredible potential, but what about the 2nd receiver? First half of the season it is Cooley, and second half, for a while, it’s maybe Devin, but once Davis proved himself, it was him. i love you because you respect Campbell, and you look at Campbell’s season and it wasn’t bad, but you gotta think, that he really never had the time to read the field fully, and since Devin or Malcolm had not yet developed into a go-to guy, they really didn’t get much of a chance. Davis had to replace a go-to tight end, and Campbell had to have Davis replace Cooley because he was already used to it. I still don’t think they’ve gotten their right chances…
Great article!
I love both guys. I think they will be above average. Why groom our boys only to flourish for someone else! those days are gone!!!!!!!
Good point...
when was the last time that we really developed a young player the right way? Between the coaching carousel and trading away our drafts we haven’t had a ton of players that we brought in and taught them the game. A stud rookie is the exception, not the norm.
And I think that we can all agree on one thing here; none of these guys are incapable of playing at a high level. Even the biggest draft busts have to possess an impressive level of talent and natural ability to make it to the NFL. Leadership and coaching is what points these guys in the right direction. Sure there needs to be some self motivation, but no one comes into the league wanting to best Ryan Leaf as the biggest draft bust of all time.
Say what you will about Zorn’s ability as a coach (because I’ll be right there with you), but we didn’t have any horrible off field incidents and I think that he helped to keep these young guys pointed in the right direction.
Whether Shannahan thinks that they are worth investing time into is one thing, but if they’ve got the physical ability I honestly believe that he can get the most out of them. Heck, look at what he got out of Brandon Marshall. Not exactly the top touted WR in the draft that year, not the fastest and definitely has his issues. These guys should be a walk in the park for him to coach up.
by It's Always Sunny in DC on Jul 6, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Hogs Haven
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
