What is WR Vincent Jackson Worth in a Redskins Trade?
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 29, 2010 10:46 PM EDT
in Redskins News
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PrintThe VJ to Redskins rumors are heating up, and I've been trying to think what will be a good value? What are Bruce Allen and Shanahan up to? The Chargers have soured over the 2009 Pro-Bowler for his 2 DUIs, which will land him a 1-4 game suspension this season. Add on top he's holding out. Hmm...him and Haynesworth can be roommates during training camp. Vincent Jackson is a stud, but all this reminds me too much of Brandon Lloyd. Trading away draft picks for a WR with off-field problems. Then, add on top of that, he wants to get paid MORE money than Brandon Marshall. That would put him in the 4 years for $50 million ballpark - or $12.5mil a year. These kind of deals only end one way - horribly.
Chargers fans have been discussing trade possibilites with the Redskins and they're expecting a 1st round pick, 3rd round pick (which we don't have) and Santana Moss. I can tell you now that ain't gonna happen Bolt fans. With as many holes as there on this Redskins team, no way Shanny gives up that 1st round pick. The Steelers were in a similar situation with Santonio Holmes, a Super Bowl MVP, and they only got a 5th round pick back.
A lot of teams have been calling the Bolts, including the Seahawks, but it's reassuring the Redskins haven't jumped the gun on this. The old regime would have easily sent our 1st round pick over by now - probably more. The Redskins do have some expendable players to throw in the trade - Carter and Fat Al to name two. I do have to say, I will be floored if they trade away their 1st round pick. The Redskins already are without their 3rd and 4th picks - losing a top 2 pick with the current age of this team would be a Dagger. Trading two 2nd round picks (2011, 2012) is an option, but honestly, McNabb has done better with far worse WRs. Given the age of the team, we won't know what holes are a major concern until next March. SAVE THE DRAFT PICKS.
Vincent Jackson Career Stats
Season
Team
Receiving
Rushing
Fumbles
G
GS
Rec
Yds
Avg
Lng
TD
Att
Yds
Avg
Lng
TD
FUM
Lost
2009
San Diego Chargers
15
15
68
1,167
17.2
55
9
3
11
3.7
12
0
--
--
2008
San Diego Chargers
16
16
59
1,098
18.6
60
7
4
69
17.3
31
0
1
1
2007
San Diego Chargers
16
16
41
623
15.2
45
3
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
2006
San Diego Chargers
16
7
27
453
16.8
55
6
3
16
5.3
8
0
--
--
2005
San Diego Chargers
8
0
3
59
19.7
21
0
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
TOTAL
198
3,400
17.2
60
25
10
96
9.6
31
0
1
1
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3-way deal
- We trade Haynesworth to the Seahawks.
- The Seahawks trade draft picks to the Chargers.
- The Chargers trade Jackson to us.
The Seahawks want Jackson though
They wouldn’t even trade their mascot for Haynesworth.
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 29, 2010 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
There were rumors just over a week ago
that Haynesworth was going to the Seahawks. Obviously that was false, but could there be some interest there?
Now wouldn't it be sweet
to trade Haynesworth to a 3-4 team? We get rid of him and he is still stuck with his 3-4 issues. HA!
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
The Skins are not going to the superbowl this year. Lets give our young guys another year, and if they turn out to be busts use a couple of picks next year on WRs. Build through the draft damn it!
by oklahomaskins on Jun 30, 2010 12:04 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
How you know where the skins are going?
by Daddyssanchez on Jun 30, 2010 7:40 AM EDT up reply actions
No way ...
…Does Shanahan give up a first rounder for a receiver. No way. In fact, I would guess he wouldn’t give up a second rounder for VJ.
I’d be shocked if we make any trades that don’t somehow involve Haynesworth. The Chargers wouldn’t have any better use for him than the Redskins would, but I trust that Allen and Shanahan are creative enough to find a way to unload him.
Brandon Marshall was worth two second rounders and he’s one of the best players in the league, despite his mental issues. I really think VJ isn’t nearly as good and with the suspension looming, he is certainly not worth as much.
We’ll see what happens, but let’s be honest — Vincent Jackson would be our #1 receiver from day 1 and our team would be a lot better with him than it currently is. If we part with a high pick, it will at least be for a young, big, proven receiver.
We could afford the 1st rounder for him.
And we should do it. That means a lot of waiting, though, because SD isn’t going to trade him for just 1 pick until closer to the deadline when they have tested his will and gotten a better idea what the pick will be.
We can’t afford the offer that would get it done now, so there isn’t much point. Unless someone offers us 2 mid-to-high picks for Haynesworth, we just don’t have anything the Chargers want. I don’t think that they are shopping for Chris Cooley to put next to Antonio Gates and Randy McMichael. =)
by sofutomygaha on Jun 30, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
you're ok
with giving up a 1st round pick for jackson?
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
I take it back
I hadn’t read up enough about Jackson. I thought he was a top 10 receiver in the league. This is a guy who caught a lot of bombs last year but he can’t make anything happen after the catch. Pass.
by sofutomygaha on Jul 1, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
no 1st or 2nd round picks for
anyone over the age of 25, I don’t give a crap who it is…..anyone seen the age of this roster?
And why are we even discussing this turd? Talk about stupid, 2 dui’s? he’s either an addict or incapable of learning….no more known divas/miscreants please ( unless they play offensive line)
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Jun 30, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
he is much better then lloyd but i wouldnt give up draft picks for him! but i do like him and he is better then anyone we have including moss!
by the fantasy king on Jun 30, 2010 1:18 AM EDT reply actions
really not interested in taking on more of another team’s headaches unless they give him away. fourth round draft pick or lower!
by les boulez bomber on Jun 30, 2010 6:47 AM EDT reply actions
I can't answer the poll
Because if the Redskins are smart, they will try to play a game with the Chargers. It is pretty obvious to all that Vincent Jackson is about to hold out this entire year (until week 11 or whatever it is) so that he won’t be a RFA next year. We need to trade for him when the value is lowest: week 6. Wait until then, and the Charger’s will be nervous as hell that they won’t get anything for their superstar. Then, we could maybe pull a 3rd and Santana (I know we don’t have it, but maybe a future 3rd) or a receiver like Devin Thomas or Malcolm Kelly. Vincent Jackson is a very good receiver, but if we wait until the last minute to try and get him, we could get him at a cheap price. I don’t think we should give up a 1st or 2nd (even though he really is worth that), but if we can get him for a future 3rd/4th and a receiver, it is very much worth it.
He has the skills and ability of a 1st rounder
but the baggage of a 6th rounder. I don’t like that he is already going to miss a quarter of the season due to his off-field activities. Plus, he seems like a head case – what is it with the WR position that attracts loonies?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
For some reason
I was just reminded of a certain ‘looney’ who got in a fist-fight with his teams starting running back at practice a couple years back…
With a four game suspension....
I think he might have to be on the team by week 7 to have the season qualify.
He’s an RFA. He’s a headache. He has an overblown ego (“I want to be paid $50M!”). He has offfield problems that will keep him from contributing THIS year. And he’s one transgression from a year on the beach.
And Bolts fans want WHAT for him? Not only no, but hell no. I don’t want this player on our team FOR FREE.
by BillWard on Jun 30, 2010 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don't know
I know that Vincent Jackson is a great talent… and a proven talent… But I don’t know that he’s that big of an upgrade over Santana. And maybe I’ve just been drinking too much of the Kool-Aide this off-season, but I really like what I’ve seen and heard from Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly and I hope that they both get an opportunity to prove themselves this year.
respectfully, I think you are drinking the cool aid
VJ is 27 years old, has 17.2 yards/catch and had 9 TDs last season.
Santana is 31 years and hasn’t had the kind of season VJ had since 2005. He’s chronically injured with lingering hamstring and leg injuries, and he faces a possible league suspension.
Essentially VJ is Santana 5 years ago, sans injuries and other baggage.
My doublestuffed oreos fell on the floor of my mom's basement. Save me swagman!
by SomebodyBuyAustinaSteak on Jun 30, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
He’s chronically injured with lingering hamstring and leg injuries
Moss hasn’t missed a game the last 2 years.
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 30, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
yes, but
its clear that his on-field play has suffered significantly from his chronic leg injuries
My doublestuffed oreos fell on the floor of my mom's basement. Save me swagman!
by SomebodyBuyAustinaSteak on Jun 30, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Do you have a report anywhere that says that?
I don’t recall one off-hand.
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 30, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
its fairly common knowledge that Santana has been slowed with nagging leg injuries
and that those injuries have affected his play.
I’m sure if you googled Santana you’d see some mention of it.
My doublestuffed oreos fell on the floor of my mom's basement. Save me swagman!
by SomebodyBuyAustinaSteak on Jun 30, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I did and there's nothing after 2008
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 30, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
ok his 2009 season wasn't too injury plagued
though he has said his knees bothered him for the last 3 years (hence the surgery) he also had surgery on his knee in 2001, and as we all know has had frequent hamstring and foot issues since 2006.
At the same time he has been very inconsistent over the last 4 years, playing especially bad during times that he was suffering from some of these injuries, for instance the second half of 2008.
My doublestuffed oreos fell on the floor of my mom's basement. Save me swagman!
by SomebodyBuyAustinaSteak on Jun 30, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think Jerry Rice would have succeeded in Zorn's system
Zorn never used double moves and our offense was as predictable as Paris Hilton getting another STD. Shanahan even said as much watching our 2009 film. He literally laughed at our schemes.
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 30, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
When Hunter the Punter
is a vital cog in your offense, you know you are in trouble.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Moss earns his roster spot twice every year....
in the Dallas games.
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Jun 30, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
That doesn't make him not-injured
His production has clearly suffered due to injury (& Zorn)
Moss hasn’t missed a game the last 2 years.
VJ is probably better now than Santana ever was, let alone is right now.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
His production has clearly suffered due to injury…
What are you basing that on?
I remember loads of time Moss wide-open deep and across the middle and Campbell never got it to him…for a multitude of diff reasons from OL, bad read, etc
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 30, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
He's suffered hamstring injuries the past few years
And his production has been bad.
What else needs to be said? Obviously there are a number of factors working against him, but hamstring injuries are one of them.
I remember the occasional over-thrown deep ball, but I hardly think that’s the main reason his production slipped.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Every WR has hamstring problems...and Tana hasn't had major one since 2008
The strength and conditioning program was horrible here the last 2 years as well. Dude can still play in my opinion.
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 30, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
overall agree with kevin on this
but there are most certainly injury concerns otherwise he wouldn’t be getting hgh shots in his knee. i’m hoping Devin steps up and takes some of the double coverages away and we can see Moss light it up with Mcnabb
So he's been injury free for 1 season?
Like I said, his production has suffered b/c of injuries among other issues.
Caveat: apparently this only applies to the years prior to 2009.
To get to the point: Santana was never really elite, was always inconsistent, couldn’t really beat double teams and handle being a true #1 WR IMO, and at the age of 31, doesn’t have much left as anything close to resembling a #1 WR.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Guess we'll agree to disagree
I certainly would love to have a 6’4 #1 WR opposite Moss (thanks for nothing Malcolm)…and have Devin pushing for a spot, but you’re making it seem our offense if F’D with Tana. All the other WRs are the much bigger problems.
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 30, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
No.
you’re making it seem our offense if F’D with Tana
I very clearly stated what I’m trying to say:
Santana is not a good #1 and is not better than VJax
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
so then yes, you do think that
You said: “Moss doesn’t have much left as anything close to resembling a #1 WR.”
No one will argue he is better than VJax, but I don’t get how you can say with certainty Moss doesn’t have anything left resembling a #1 when he had several highlight reel TDs last year on a team that absolutely sucked. No run game, horrible play-calling, horrible OL. He can’t throw the ball to himself.
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 30, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Really? Having a few highlight reels on a bad team, that's the standard now?
Watching every snap of his time as a Redskin, I feel confident that he was never a great #1, nor will he be going forward.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
He should be in our Ring of Honor
for what he did to the cowgirls over the years.
If Cooley/Davis and DT can establish themselves as credible threats, then Moss will have fewer double teams and a chance to regain form. Everyone should be better this year for obvious reasons.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
one thing about hamstring problems
they’re a bigger problem for Santana since his speed is his most dangerous weapon.
Hamstring problems for other WRs that rely more on route-running, height, hands, etc. is less of a problem.
My doublestuffed oreos fell on the floor of my mom's basement. Save me swagman!
by SomebodyBuyAustinaSteak on Jun 30, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
he still outruns ANYONE in the open field
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 30, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
another reason to hold onto the receivers we have..
In any experiment, you need to limit the variables and have controlled conditions. We’ve made significant changes on the o-line to address the biggest problems. It was difficult to evaluate our receiving corps with those o-line issues. Now that Shannie has taken steps to address those o-line issues, we need a season to re-evaluate our receivers. We owe it to Moss as well as the young guys to give them a chance in the new system.
I don't think we need a season to reevaluate Moss
we already know what we have. A speedy receiver who will have occasionally great games (last year vs. Detroit) but for the most part will be inconsistent, will end up with 70ish catches for 900-1000 yards and either 6 TDs (ceiling) or 3 TDs (floor) may suffer some sort of leg injury that would limit his effectiveness and is 31 years old (traditionally an age where receivers begin to decline in the NFL).
My doublestuffed oreos fell on the floor of my mom's basement. Save me swagman!
by SomebodyBuyAustinaSteak on Jun 30, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
except linebackers...
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
ok, let's just release Moss then and go with Galloway instead.
Does this look like hamstring problems to you?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz2v-oAe3W0
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 30, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Or that bomb to beat Tampa...
Moss blew by everyone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYruODwoHm0
2:00 mark
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 30, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
haha
you’re acting like I do with Malcolm Kelly (admittedly, Moss has done a lot more that MK has).
But I think you have me confused with the “get rid of moss” crowd. I’m absolutely not in that camp, but the same way you’ve written of MK, people are seeing signs of Moss’ decline.
Pointing it out doesn’t mean I want him gone though. I actually do want him here
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
MK is the only WR on this roster 6'3"+
The fact they’re pursuing Vincent Jackson does not bode well for MK…but that’s not shocking. Vinny drafted him against the insight from his scouts.
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 30, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't care what ya'll say
he’s still on me and Bay’s All Kool-Aid team :p
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
Is Vinny serving them in his French Maid outfit?
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 30, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I kept waiting for there to be a TD highlight
then it was a 7 yard slant pattern.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
It's a 59-yard bomb TD, :200 mark like I was sayin
is this CincyBoy?
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 30, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
that's "2:00" minute mark
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 30, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
one good game (DET) and one good catch
with the rest of the season being rather mediocre (admittedly to a large degree b/c of the offensive line and Zorn woes).
My doublestuffed oreos fell on the floor of my mom's basement. Save me swagman!
by SomebodyBuyAustinaSteak on Jun 30, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
He was only 98 yards short of a 1,000 yard season
McNabb should get him there. I’m taking bets….Smuts?
Loser has to shave Ken’s back.
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 30, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
about 20+ WRs a year get 1,000 yds
How about a real bet: if he’s truly a good #1, he should finish top 10 in yards, right?
There’s your bet.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Pass the Kool-aid, I'll take that bet (barring suspension)
Hines Ward is 34 and is still top 10 in yards.
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 30, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree Moss could very well be in the top 10 in yards....
unless of course CP and WP combine for 1800 and MK DT shine…plus the TE position could easily be good for 60-70 catches for 800+yards at least. not to mention, we know Moss is extremely competitive, he had to be frustrated with the offense in general over the last two years, he loves the deep ball. He had to have been watching De Sean last year, thinking, “man if only I had that kind of opportunity”. Now, perhaps, he does and I think he will be ready. He longer has the speed of DeSean, but he is a better football player, takes the bump off the line better….and I think he has something to prove.
welllllllll....let me think on that.....
first I would have to include caveats and provisions concerning other players production. Secondly, Moss would have to play all 16 gnaes (injuries or suspensions nullify the bet). Thirdly, Is ken even aware or willing to be cmpliant to such a ridiculous bet? and last, but certainly not least, what heinous act are you willing to commit if I happen to win said bet?
the bet was
loser shaves ken’s back. Moss is in the top 10 in yards. Kevin took the bet. No need to throw in 17 stipulations and loopholes here Magic, if you’re in, you’re in..
I personally, am out. haha
Yes I'm aware that eventually a few TDs showed up in that reel
but as for proving Santana’s blazing speed, I’m not sure if that reel helped or hurt your point.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Ehh
VJ is probably better now than Santana ever was, let alone is right now.
Santana’s 2005 season was better than any season Jackson has had to this date. But at this point Jackson is the better receiver and probably will be overall once his career is over as well.
its an interesting (albeit useless) question
which type of receiver would you rather have, a 2005 Santana Moss – capable of absolutely taking over a game or a 2010 Vincent Jackson- a very good and reliable (on the field) WR that makes the offense consistently better?
My doublestuffed oreos fell on the floor of my mom's basement. Save me swagman!
by SomebodyBuyAustinaSteak on Jun 30, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
VJ
We’ll see how his numbers are affected by not having Phillip Rivers throwing him the ball, especially if he ends up in Seattle. I’m betting there will be a serious drop-off if that happens. Imagine if Moss actually had that luxury of a top-10 QB with a legitimate OL giving him time for the past 5 seasons. Not to mention an offensive scheme change every other year. Despite all of that (and his alleged leg injuries which caused him to miss a grand total of 4 games), Moss still managed to average over 1000 yards/5 TDs every season that he’s been here.
You really think he's that good?
There’s a certain MNF Dallas game that Moss and Brunell (that’s right Mark Brunell) won for us in 05… I think VJ is really good, but I don’t know if he’s got the ability to take over a game like that.
Also, in my oppinion , VJ has way more “Other baggage” than Moss. I remember reading something last year during the Play-offs wher he got his car impounded the night before the game (a play-off game!!), and had to get Philip Rivers to come pick him up… Also He might have to miss up to a Quarter of this season due to more current off the field issues.
Last post was in response to
“Essentially VJ is Santana 5 years ago, sans injuries and other baggage.”
he really is quite good as shown by his stats last year
different from Santana in 2005, b/c he’s more of a consistent threat, whereas Santana in 2005, as you point out, was somewhat streaky, he’d have games where teams would be unable to contain his speed and he would explode and then other games where he’d be relatively contained.
Also, my sense from watching SD games (admittedly not many) was that VJ was never considered the guy the Chargers had to get the ball to, like you might see discussed about other top-flight WRs (maybe due to the fact that they had other top notch offensive weapons). Thus I think there would be a decent chance that if he was featured in our passing game his numbers could be even better than last year.
My doublestuffed oreos fell on the floor of my mom's basement. Save me swagman!
by SomebodyBuyAustinaSteak on Jun 30, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
But, he did have Phil Rivers.
And a pretty good line. And he played the Chiefs and Raiders…. Twice.
we have McNabb
albeit a worse offensive line.
My doublestuffed oreos fell on the floor of my mom's basement. Save me swagman!
by SomebodyBuyAustinaSteak on Jun 30, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I would take Rivers 8 days a week over McScabb.
But our line is better. i just am not blown ayay by his stats. To give a ton up for another head case that’s not even close to Larry Fitzgerald orBrandon Marshall is crazy. Don’t forget, then we have to pay him top dollar…
The scary part of "top dollar"
is the rankle it creates with other players and the fact that it seems to be a huge de-motivating factor for a lot of players. Kind of a no win proposition.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Look, I'll forever love Moss for the Devestation of Dallas
But twice last year alone Jackson had two TD catches in very close games (1 pt win and 3 pt win).
“taking over a game” is a rather nebulous distinction, and I certainly think VJ is capable of almost everything Moss has achieved in his career.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Really now?
sans injuries and other baggage
He has 2 DUI’s and is facing suspension, not to mention the fact he’s holding out in SanDiego for a contract bigger than Brandon Marshall’s point towards the baggage department in my opinion
true, I guess I meant no chronic nagging injuries or looming suspensions
My doublestuffed oreos fell on the floor of my mom's basement. Save me swagman!
by SomebodyBuyAustinaSteak on Jun 30, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
You are forgetting
that VJ is something like 6’ 5" and Santana is like 5’ 11." No way you can compare the two unless I’ve got my facts all wrong.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
just pass altogether
and for once watch someone else make a fool of themselves.
by aFan4Life on Jun 30, 2010 8:09 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
agreed
Revamping the O-line was crucial to giving the offense a legitimate chance to succeed this year. I wouldn’t call WR a position of need right now, not until we can see how Thomas, Kelly and the lot pan out. And for the love of pie, the hemorrhaging of draft picks has to stop sometime. And his holdout nonsense is exactly the kind of “me first” attitude we don’t want to bring in. We’re trying to export one of those attitudes, not import another one…
by willster on Jun 30, 2010 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That would be da Bears I bet....
I think Vinny must be moonlighting for them
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Jun 30, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
As much as you fans don't want this...
I live here in D.C. and everyone is going nuts about this. But since I am a U guy, I am more excited seeing Santana Moss with help. Your team could actually use him correctly as a reciever!
Like Ari Gold says about Lloyd, “He fills two quotas!” He can return punts/kickoffs for your team, and he has hands and break away speed to be a great receiver (just not a number 1).
Pair him with a first round pick for 2011 and you guys are looking at a pretty good pick.
VJ is going to sign his big contract and become worthless like every big name player the Redskins get.
DC goes crazy everytime anyone else's star becomes available
They’re conditioned for it after the Snyderatto years. Remember when we were in the hunt for Rolle, Peppers, Sharper, Dansby?
Serious business.
Gotta stop trying to put together
a roster that on paper looks like the “All-90’s Squad” and build a team for this decade.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Chargers fans have been discussing trade possibilites with the Redskins and they’re expecting a 1st round pick, 3rd round pick (which we don’t have) and Santana Moss. I can tell you now that ain’t gonna happen Bolt fans.
Gotta love fans’ interpretations of what their players are worth.
Formerly Bye, Dawk :(
no kidding
How about throwing McNabb and Portis into that trade too, just to sweeten the deal!…
Easy there, Vinny
The deal won’t be sweet unless we do as you suggest plus throw in a high draft pick.
How about throwing McNabb and Portis into that trade too, just to sweeten the deal!…
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
You are referring to the starting RB of a team
a former notable executive of football operations called a playoff caliber team. So you are probably correct.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
they're interested in Santana?
Obviously a 1st and a 3rd would be ridiculous, but some sort of deal involving Santana and a 2nd round draft pick would be very nice I think.
Santana has peaked and is on the decline. VJ is one of the top 10 WRs in the league and is still very young.
My doublestuffed oreos fell on the floor of my mom's basement. Save me swagman!
by SomebodyBuyAustinaSteak on Jun 30, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Bolts fans suggested Tana in a trade
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by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 30, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't know about a 2nd and Santana
Even without the off the field issues, I’m not sure if that’s good value for a second rounder. Add in the DUIs and general asshole behavior and I’d say no to that trade.
Serious business.
This is a team that will need first rounders in 2011 and 2012
The injection of top-tier first and second round offensive talent is going to be a necessity on a team that has maybe a 2-3 year window for success with McNabb. The FO should be more willing to give up mid-round picks — as they have, for Brown and McNabb — than the top tier.
That being said, there’s simply no way this deal should happen if it doesn’t involve Haynesworth. Jackson is ready to play hardball, and he’s looking for a mega-deal — I like him as a receiver, he’s a big strong target, and he’s a hard worker (the Brandon Lloyd comparison is unfair, he was a known head-case — the deal for Lloyd, prior to Haynesworth, was the worst deal in team history). But the cost is just going to be too great to get him if it includes first or second round picks.
The reality is that Carter or Haynesworth must be the centerpiece of this deal, either with the Chargers or as a three-way with someone who wants him. But the problem with that is that neither will fetch more than a 3rd rounder from most teams. You’d have to find a team willing to overpay for Haynesworth and the headache he brings. And if you do that trade, you probably negate any ability to get Haynesworth to agree to give back some of his $21 million bonus — I still think he’ll be willing to buy his freedom, but that means cutting him, not trading him.
All in all, I like Jackson, he’s a top-tier receiver who’d be excellent when paired with Moss and Thomas, but he’s far too expensive given the Redskins’ other needs.
Couldn't have said it better myself
and besides… as good as Jackson is, WR is not really of position of need for us right now.
Agree that two 2nd round draft picks would be too steep
though if we could trade Haynesworth or a veteran on the decline to soften the price, I’d be all for it.
Also, I don’t think the comparison to Lloyd is at all apt. Lloyd hadn’t done anything when we gave him all that money. VJ is already a top 10 WR in the league who is very young still and has a good 6 more years of top 10 WR production ahead of him,
My doublestuffed oreos fell on the floor of my mom's basement. Save me swagman!
by SomebodyBuyAustinaSteak on Jun 30, 2010 9:50 AM EDT reply actions
Trading away draft picks
Adding Jackson would give the Skins the true No.1 WR we’ve been lacking for years now. But, trading away high round draft picks cannot be the answer for a team that needs to add some youth. Perhaps some mid-round picks in 2011 or 2012. Snyder has deep pockets so the contract shouldn’t be an issue.
just because we (he) can afford it....
doesn’t mean it is not an issue, on many levels….but then again, giving multi-million dollar deals to players with oversized egos and off the field issues has never been a problem for us in the past so lets go for it!!
WR's
I believe that young Shannan CLEARLY knows EXACTY what he needs as far as his O is concerned.
This is going to be a spread it around high octane O….so in that sense I dont know that they are going to need Super Great Receivers..if they can run routes and catch the ball (s) they’ll be more than ok…that talent may already be here McNabb is going to throw the ball so they just need to be there for it.
If the OL is GOOD,(or BETTER ) the Skins are going to move the ball score points, and be exciting
FIX the communication Problem with AH…SOLVE THIS Problem…dont Transfer it …over come it
HOPEFULLY both sides Decide to mend this unnecessary distraction…for the good of the TEAM
AH is No Saint and is Selfish….BUT he wants to be a Redskin and knows the Tradition that he can become a Great member of…. Git this problem fixed…..Git er done
Now if AH can be brought into the D ( not as a committed NT ) this D will have less to do because the O is going to leave them rested…and they will be really good…possibly scary good
SOLVE the AH problem…
sbredskinsnabb
by sbredskinsnabb on Jun 30, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
AH problem
Absolutely right. They should get him back in the fold. Mike may have mis-played things a little (telling him he had to play NT), but that seems very easy to solve – just show him that he’ll mainly be DT in the 4-3 (that might be used a lot because it could easily be far more effective than the 3-4) and DE in the 3-4 (telling him it’ll be just like DT in the 4-3). It would be a shame if he was wasted.
Snyder has deep pockets so the contract shouldn’t be an issue.
dude, Salary Cap. nobody is gives a crap about Dan Snyder’s wallet.
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Jun 30, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
The post on "Bolts from the Blue"
is hilarious. Moss, a #1, and a #3.
I like the math. Let’s do it; we can re-stock when we trade Haynesworth to Atlanta for John Abraham and three 2nd rounders.
Maybe we'll get a deal...
The new admin got McNabb for a 2nd and future pick, Jammal Brown for a future trade down of 2 rounds, and Adam Karriker for a trade down of a handful of spots…
Since Santonio Holmes (looming suspension/off the field issues makes me feel he is a closer trade value than Brandon Marshall) went for a 5th rounder- so maybe we can get Vincent Jackson fairly cheap… Andre Carter and a 5th rounder- is that possible given what we’ve seen out of the new admin to make value deals, or has all the offseason change got me drinking the kool aid again??? ugh… it’s rough being a skins fan.
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by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 30, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
They are a 3-4 team
we are a hybrid 3-4 team, and people want to get rid of him here because he doesn’t fit. He would fit in SD’s defense even less.
My point was...
That we might not have to give up something we value a lot (high draft pick or premier player). You are right that they probably wouldn’t want Carter in the 3-4. I was just saying that I wouldn’t be surprised if the price tag on VJ was cheaper than all this first and second round talk people are throwing around. Insert one of our underachieving DB’s or WR’s instead- the point is (1) the Allen-Shanahan connection is cleaning up this roster efficiently and at lower cost than we are used to and (2) troublesome WR’s are not as expensive these days (Braylon Edwards, Santonio Holmes went much cheaper than Brandon Marshall).
the market is not what someone is willing to pay. it is what you can flip it for…if we gave up a legit starter and first round pick, do you think we could flip him to another team for a starter and first round pick??? if not…then obviously, we paid above the market!
i dont think the guy is worth that much. he had a great offense. he has a me first attitude. and he is head case off the field.
=pass…i stand by fourth round pick or average starter at a position of depth only (do we have depth anywhere???)
by les boulez bomber on Jun 30, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
and not for 50mm…30-40mm depending on term
by les boulez bomber on Jun 30, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I never said
a 1st and a starter. I said a 5th and a starter (Carter). I do not think that is above market value for VJ. You should re-read my original post. I think this since:
-Santonio Holmes went for a 5th.
-Braylon Edwards went for a 3rd and a 5th.
-Brandon Marshall went for a 2nd and a 2nd.
Trade - no chasing
It would be great to get Jackson, but I wouldn’t chase – relatively cheap or not at all. No first or second round picks. Seems to me a three-way, amounting to Haynesworth for Jackson (to us) would be the best. My guess (and Kevin and others would know better than me) is that because of VJ’s suspension and off-field problems, AH is worth more than VJ (AH’s problems are mainly with the 3-4) – so we shouldn’t have to add anything, and maybe even get something.
Why would we be in the market for an elite WR anyway?
I’ve always thought top-notch WRs are the last piece of the offensive puzzle. We have young, developing receivers already. We also have a creaky, arthritic backfield and questionable depth along both lines. At this point, we definitely shouldn’t be considering giving up picks for a WR.
Serious business.
by ThaRak on Jun 30, 2010 12:45 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
As the years go by I agree more & more
I’ve always thought top-notch WRs are the last piece of the offensive puzzle.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
by smutsboy1 on Jun 30, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Receivers can have pretty long careers
These days I’d say that the top-notch RB would be the last piece, but I agree with your general sentiment. Don’t think we really need him.
Side question - What's going on with Moss and his issue with the Canadian doctor?
I haven’t been following it – Any news on that? Likely or unlikely suspension?
Formerly Bye, Dawk :(
unlikely
The NFL has yet to contact Moss or the Redskins, which is why it’s unlikely at this point.
The authorities last week confiscated all these documents from Galea’s office, so who knows what will come of that.
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by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 30, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I honestly haven't heard a word
last thing I heard, the doctor’s assistant’s name was brought about, but still nothing about Moss nor pending disciplinary action.
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
I haven't heard any suspension talks
As far as I know, there’s nothing to indicate that the roids were actually being brought over for him. Anthony Galea is pretty well known among athletes for improving nagging injuries (and he’s treated alot of famous people) so it’s plausible that he was going over for a legit treatment. Not saying that’s what was going on, just saying it’s plausible.
Serious business.
The assistant was on his way to meet Moss and Galea with HGH
Doesn’t mean it was for Moss I guess but it’s not like he was JUST meeting with Galea. HGH was being brought to that meeting.
by BayAreaBullet on Jul 1, 2010 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions
yesssss
we better who is mcnaab going to throw the ball to?its about time we got a #1 wr again.otherwise the signing of mcnaab was useless as well.vj is a stud you cant draft a wr like him so go for it.no doubts about it.
i am pretty sure he was drafted- lol
by les boulez bomber on Jun 30, 2010 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Just heard on the radio
That NFL.com is reporting Jackson is in Phoenix working out with Donovan.
Insert something witty here.
by Knubles and Bits on Jun 30, 2010 8:38 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Jackson keep walking
Our WR’s should improve now that we have a QB …..No trades please …..
I'd rather take T.O. than V.J.
Similar headache, smaller price tag.
I don’t watch a lot of Chargers games. Vincent Jackson
sure kills the Broncos every time he plays them, but he
is very different from Brandon Marshall — he runs deep
routes rather than gain yards after the catch. Maybe it’s
just the system, but he is not the bestt fit for a Wester Coast
offense.
As many have said, McNabb makes average receivers
look great. Give them a chance. If we are really that
desperate, a 2nd rounder will likely pry loose Eddie Royal
from the Broncos, who keep purging players from the old
regime just out of spite. Royal can probably be had for a
5th rounder next Spring if he is misused again this season.
I’d wait.
by formerbroncosfan on Jun 30, 2010 9:47 PM EDT reply actions
TO isnt anywhere near VJ in terms of level of play
VJ is like a top 10 WR, whereas I can think of about 50 WRs who are more productive.
My doublestuffed oreos fell on the floor of my mom's basement. Save me swagman!
by SomebodyBuyAustinaSteak on Jun 30, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
And most of those 50 guys
don’t have the dropsies.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
I don't want to see the Redskins trade for the next 5 years
unless it involves trading some of the prima donnas that remain on our team for other team’s draft picks.
VJ was suspended 3 games
For his DUI charge. His asking price would (likely) drop. I doubt the Skins would give up a whole lot for him, but I just wonder what a team like the Seahawks would.
maybe the reduced asking price, we can get him on the cheap (ala Santonio Holmes prices?)
My doublestuffed oreos fell on the floor of my mom's basement. Save me swagman!
by SomebodyBuyAustinaSteak on Jul 1, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
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