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Snide Debate: Is the offensive line good enough with the addition of Jammal Brown?

Washington Examiner columnist Rick Snider's first Redskins story was in 1983 and his work can be found at the WashingtonExaminer.com and WarpathConfidential.com.

Rick and I debate whether Jammal will see time at LT and how long Chris Samuels will coach with the Redskins since his internship is almost up.

 Is the offensive line good enough with the addition of Jammal Brown?

RickObviously, there's some question over his health because teams don't give away starting tackles, even right tackles. But, like some other spare parts, the Redskins are collecting better players than they've had. I could see Brown becoming the right tackle, Artis Hicks the right guard and Mike Williams the backup for both. That definitely makes the Redskins better. 

Kevin: The offensive line is better, but not good enough (yet). It takes time for an OLine to gel and learn the system and techniques to be effective, but I find it impossible for anyone to dislike this trade. It's too bad the Redskins couldn't squeeze in another minicamp before the break. I think going into next season the Redskins will be real legit contenders. The fact the Redskins received a late draft pick in the deal too means they can also still add youth who can compete for a spot. Brilliant work by Bruce and Shanny.

Rick: It's still a patchwork offensive line, but at least it's getting better and has some depth because you know someone will get hurt. Never fails, just hope it's not Trent Williams. The Redskins still figure to use the tight ends as blockers regularly so that means the line isn't where Shanahan think it should be, hence the last trade. It also means don't take Cooley and Davis for your fantasy team because their catches will be decreased by more blocking. That is, unless the receivers can't get it done and the Redskins are forced to throw to tight ends more than they'd like. 

Kevin: So the Redskins' LT this season will face Mario Williams, Trent Cole 2x, Demarcus Ware 2x, Kiwanuka 2x, Dwight Freeney, Jared Allen, Julius Peppers, Chris Long...how long until they move Jammal Brown over to LT? 

Star-divide

Rick: Never, barring injury. You draft someone fourth overall , you stick with him. Sure, Williams will have his bad games against such good players, but that's where the tight ends back him up. Clinton Portis is also an excellent blocker. If Williams is really worthy of being the fourth pick, he'll survive and so will McNabb.

Kevin: Yea, that's where having Chris Samuels on the team truly is invaluable. Having played against them all decade, each week Samuels can prep Trent on all these guys' preferred moves and techniques and how to defend them. So, it sounds like your ready to sign a 10-year contract for Redskins' club level season tickets!

Rick: Samuels is only here through camp the last I heard, but maybe they'll extend it. Not sure what league rules are concerning intern coaches. As for signing up for season tickets, I tweeted (what a weird word) the Redskins offered me 8 tickets for the fourth time in a year so I really wonder about that 200,000 waiting list. More like a mailing list.

Kevin: I registered you 5000 times when I was bored so that's probably why. 

As for Samuels, I guess I figured he was a year long intern. I think he'd be a big help for Trent during games on the sidelines, but I guess that means he'd be doing Foerster's job    

Rick: Can't have too many people in Williams' ear. His head is on a swivel as it is. Hopefully, it's not on a plate. Oh, and I've now signed you up with the European lottery people so expect a lot of emails from people saying you've won. Just give them your bank account number for the money transfer. They're nice folks.

The one thing I disagree with is that they'd never move Jammal back to LT. It could even happen week 1. McNabb is a HUGE investment, and if Trent struggles in pre-season, there's no point risking major injury to McNabb. The season is lost if Rex Grossman has to start. Oh man, imagine if Heyer and Rexy were on the field together? Let's not.

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I don't post much

but the thought of Heyer and Rex on the field at the same time scared me so much I wet myself….

by Jornek on Jun 23, 2010 9:22 AM EDT reply actions  

i just

puked a little in my mouth

by h money on Jun 23, 2010 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

I looked at YouTube videos of Swinging Gate

After starting to wonder why we cut Hunter the Punter, I got a grip and said “it’s OK, it’s OK.” So I feel a little better now, but still nauseous.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Jun 23, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

It seems like I'm the only one

but I thought that play was awesome…granted I went to that game and it was so bad, it was like watching a scary movie and the only way to get through it was to laugh at it, and maybe it was just the beers that helped…we were just getting our asses kicked and it was like a f*#$ it, we’re just gonna do some crazy shit, and I was cheering like crazy for it…

by Jornek on Jun 23, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

If both

Heyer and Rex were on the field at the same time this year, I’m pretty sure we all would have the stench of urine-soaked pants and vomit lingering through our houses.

by bigrm18 on Jun 23, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

That’s not the usual game day smell you guys have? Wierd…

by travisjh86 on Jun 23, 2010 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but

My wife says that she can’t stand the smell and usually passed out after inhaling it (she’s a lightweight). So of course she tries to clean it up. But come game day, I’m peeing and throwing up all over the floors!

by bigrm18 on Jun 23, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

How ridiculous is our schedule against RDEs this year?

Pro-Bowler after Pro-Bowler….I can’t imagine the 2009 OLine against these guys. McNabb would have ended up like a cartoon with his knee and arm bent backwards.

Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.

by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 23, 2010 9:53 AM EDT reply actions  

Trent

Will certainly be able to show his worth against those guys. If he can maintain his own, and keep McNabb upright, we’ll have a Chris Samuels #2 on our hands. If not, it would be understandable considering the quality of the players he’s going against, but we would have to be somewhat worried.

But to be honest, I’m more anxious to see what Trent can do than I am worried about him and/or McNabb. Maybe that’s naive or overly optimistic of me, but I really can’t wait to see how he performs.

by bigrm18 on Jun 23, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Time for Trent Grasshopper Williams to

bring over the charcoal grille.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Jun 23, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

2011 schedule is softer

this is a feel good year, next is the big time. Of course since that is the case, there won’t be one….

by brettpedigo on Jun 23, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I will say

I think Trent Williams will be quite ready for elite level DEs. Obviously, I think the team should still dedicate, in many situations, a RB (coughcoughPortis) to helping him. But going against Orakpo and Carter in camp will help him with blitz picking up, as well as dealing with elite rushers. While there are definitely DEs better then Orakpo/Carter (Allen, Freeney, Ware), I think he’ll do fine so long as he progresses well through training camp.

by BigOLinemen on Jun 23, 2010 11:08 AM EDT reply actions  

from what we have heard about his attitude so far...

the lessons he is getting from Chris and the athleticism involved in Shanny’s scheme….he might come out of the gate at “monster” level. …a man can dream can’t he?

by MagicHat on Jun 23, 2010 12:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Monster level

I hope it’s not a dream… I’m still bitter that we didn’t take Okung, but I’m super supportive of Williams as we did draft him.

by travisjh86 on Jun 23, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought

we weren’t going to mention HIS name here

SpottieOttieDopaliscious

by Rekka on Jun 23, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

its cool

It’s not that I don’t like him or something, and I’m ECSTATIC that we have a potential decade LT

but it’s like talking about the one that go away, I’d rather try to put it out of my mind.

SpottieOttieDopaliscious

by Rekka on Jun 23, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

If D-Mac and Rex

went down, we’d get a chance to see Colt in action. Of course, one guy thinks Bartels will beat him out. Anybody hear anything about how the QBs looked? Colt himself didn’t sound very positive in the one interview I heard. That writer said Bartels would get #3 because of better arm strength. But good footwork and judgement and a quick release could be more important.

by Donnio1234 on Jun 23, 2010 12:30 PM EDT reply actions  

NOT NEARLY AS "OFFENSIVE" AS LAST YEAR

While it’s true I live in a fantasy world of burgundy and gold…..I firmly believe getting Jammal Brown, Artis Hicks and Trent Williams makes the ‘Skins’ line far less offensive than the ’09 line…..in a good way. (Pesky word, “offensive.” )
Are they playoff-bound? Probably not. Will Williams have tough days? You bet! Nonetheless, it sure seems Allen & Shanny have a far better grasp on the game than Cousin Vinny ever did.

by Tee L on Jun 23, 2010 12:45 PM EDT reply actions  

PS: Colt Gets Cut

No, they won’t make the poor boy a gelding…..(so don’t call me a “neigh” sayer)…..but regardless of what Brennan did in college or one or two pre-season games, he is NOT Shanny’s favored type of QB.
In fact, don’t be surprised if Shanny doesn’t scan the waiver wire in August and find a “project” more to his liking.

by Tee L on Jun 23, 2010 12:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Good post

And I agree. I think this line is not where it needs to be for a real super bowl run but I do think it’s impossible to say that it isn’t seriously improved. Even if TW does not ultimately stay at LT I do think that he will be a part of the Redskins O-line for years to come. I also have to hope that last year we looked worse than we were (don’t get me wrong, we sucked no matter what) due to bad coaching and management. We just need to keep building through the draft and making sane FA moves over the next couple seasons and I think the Skins could well be something for us all to be proud of again.

by SkinsOsTerps on Jun 23, 2010 1:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Coaching

I honestly think we could have been better then we played with what we had. Tell me if I am wrong ( 99%) I thought the oline played well at times . The saints game we played so well we could have won . And tell me how we play dodo brown against loins , rams and then switch one or two lineman and play well enough to win 2-3 games more ? To me it was the coaching !

Stacey Lidoursi

by terpus on Jun 24, 2010 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

The OL had a stretch of like 2.5 good games

and was doo doo for the rest of the season after that.

"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Jun 24, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Rich Tandler's take on the Skins' OT depth chart

His overall confidence level: Medium. For a read of the whole article go to http://www.csnwashington.com/06/22/10/Redskins-In-Depth-Chart-Offensive-Tackle/landing.html?blockID=258878&feedID=2993.

His confidence level in Brown at RT was high while his confidence level in T. Williams was medium. The only way Tandler’s confidence level gets up to medium overall involves shuffling players like Hicks from RG to RT in case of injury to Brown or T. Williams. In other words the depth for tackle comes from have Hicks on the roster as the 3rd best OT.

Until T. Williams has some NFL game experience, Tandler’s estimation seems reasonable. A rookie LT is not a total bust if he can play RT or guard. There are enough 1st round OL picks that need a few seasons to play up to snuff including Brickshaw at LT and Gallery (drafted as a LT) at guard.

by Jefferson1935 on Jun 23, 2010 3:34 PM EDT reply actions  

SilverBack

As we speak Trent and Chris are watching film and going over foot placement on these super dupper DE’s . I am new to the blog and I come as a retired offensive line coach from the 4A North in Maryland . I am not the smartiest and I have raised the trophy at mid feild in 2008 and 2006 at M&T Bank staudium

Stacey Lidoursi

by terpus on Jun 24, 2010 9:37 AM EDT reply actions  

If you're an OL Coach, then you're a lot smarter than me

Let me ask you this, which has been a big debate here the last week.

What kind of impact will it be on Jammal Brown going to RT after playing every single snap as a LT his career? Should we expect a lot of mistakes his first season?

Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.

by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 24, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

also

do you think Heyer can ever become a legit NFL lineman? Have you seen anything that would be cause to give him some more time to develop? Or is it just a lost cause?

SpottieOttieDopaliscious

by Rekka on Jun 24, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

O-line and Heyer

My current opinion is that the O-line is good enough to get us to 10-6 if we had top tier running backs and WRs. However, Our RBs/WRs are bad enough to put us at 6-10. So, I split the difference and come up with 8-8 given the mediocre O-line/RB combination. McNabb is a steady force that will help us with ball control, but I don’t think he’ll be anything spectacular this year given his surrounding cast, and the potential lack of a top tier RB to support him.

by Kurtstack on Jun 24, 2010 11:57 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm changing my tune on the RBs

My friend who used to coach at UNC was there a couple weeks ago and the other long time coaches said Willie Parker is in the best shape of his life and running a sub 4.4.

Portis will be the 3rd down back…willie and larry get the first two down. (ideally)

Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.

by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 24, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed

But what fun is an off-season without predictions?

Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.

by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 24, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

def more than last year

START COLT BRENNAN!!

LET JASON PASS!!! (speaking of, where is he)?

Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.

by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 24, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

So far

the funnest part of the offseason for me has been the meetup for the draft. Other than that, we’ve had to deal with Haynesworth all offseason and the threat of a lockout in 2011.

But, you’re right. It’s a lot better than the CB Bonanza of last offseason.

SpottieOttieDopaliscious

by Rekka on Jun 24, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can't WAIT for Canton

Loads of tailgating and parties w/ Skins fans and players.

Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.

by Kevin Ewoldt on Jun 24, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

shhhh

enjoy the lack of ridiculous comments!

by aFan4Life on Jun 28, 2010 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

They have to prove it first.

And McNabb is elite until he gets hurt.

Then its Sexy Rexy time.

"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Jun 24, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's part & parcel of the McNabb for a 2nd rounder trade

It’s ~12 Games Of McNabb for a 2nd rounder.

"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Jun 24, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Come on Smuts!

Give McNabb 36 to 48 more games in 3 to 4 years.

by Jefferson1935 on Jun 26, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

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