The Biggest Gamechanger For the Washington Redskins This Offseason: Competition
by Ken Meringolo on Apr 30, 2010 1:41 PM EDT
in Redskins Analysis
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When I was tasked with this week's Sprint Gamechanger post, I did the usual glance up and down the current roster to see which player jumped out at me as a "Gamechanging" addition. As I considered each of the usual suspects (Donovan McNabb, Larry Johnson/Willie Parker, Trent Williams, etc.) it occurred to me that what I was seeing up and down the roster was actually the "Gamechanger."
Competition.
Along with the attitude, discipline, and legitimacy that Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan immediately bring to the Washington Redskins, competition is possibly the most important ingredient they have added to the mix. Sure, guys have competed for jobs here in the last decade. But wasn't there always a sense that certain starting positions--cough, running back, cough--were pre-determined and that true competition was lacking in the offseason?
That is certainly not the case right now. Players who have enjoyed preferential treatment in the past are now ostensibly fighting for their jobs. Mike Shanahan has insisted upon bringing in players who will push returning veterans not just for playing time, but for roster slots. At the running back position, Clinton Portis is joined by fellow Pro Bowl runners Larry Johnson and Willie Parker. No offense to Marcus Mason and Anthony Alridge, but Johnson and Parker have proven themselves to be capable of carrying the load on a weekly basis in this league and will push Portis all summer to prove he deserves to be the starter on this team. If he fails to prove that by September, you better believe Shanahan will have zero problem giving the rock to either Larry or Willie.
At the wide receiver position, the recent signings of Joey Galloway and Bobby Wade appear to add up to little more than tryouts. Not so fast. Setting Wade aside for the moment, Joey Galloway is a pro. He reportedly still has 4.3 speed, and management is familiar with what he brings to the table. Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly should be taking notice, because if Galloway has a good summer, it will be their playing time that gets decreased to put Galloway opposite Santana Moss. Their grace period is over. If they are going to play and contribute this season, they will have to earn the right to do so.
Staying on offense a little longer, one of my most anticipated training camp battles will be between Mike Sellers and Dennis Morris. I have long been a fan of Big Mike, and though I was critical of him last season, I think he retains the necessary skills to be a contributor on special teams and in certain offensive sets. But this kid Morris is growing on all of us. All we asked of Shanahan and Allen in this draft was to uncover a gem in the middle to late portion of the draft. Specifically, we were hoping Shanny would unearth a running back from deep in the draft to emerge onto the scene. Morris is not a running back, but could line up in the backfield. He is strong, violent at the point of attack, and has above average hands. In my opinion, his name is one we could become very familiar with rather quickly in August.
On the defensive side of the ball, players like Andre Carter and Phillip Daniels will be battling within a group of defensive linemen to make the opening day squad. Phillip Buchanon looks like he is putting his best foot forward and if he is able to push guys like Carlos Rogers, great--but his ability to light a fire under guys like Kevin Barnes and Justin Tryon will be integral in the shaping of our secondary this season.
Up and down the roster, starting spots will be legitimately up for grabs this summer. Backup jobs will also be hotly contested, with returning players like Colt Brennan, Marko Mitchell, and Chad Rinehart expected to face stiff competition for the right to be called 2nd- and 3rd-stringers.
Shanahan's insistence that competition--legitimate competition--takes place this offseason is a gamechanger for this franchise and will be largely responsible for any success it enjoys in 2010.
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The competition makes me feel 100 times better about this team
I really hope some of guys who’ve been here for a while can step up. DT and MK especially. It would be nice for Barnes to take the next step and Lorenzo Alexander to establish himself as an every down guy, too. I’ll be rooting for everyone that was here last year except Stephon Heyer, who can sit hit pear shaped behind on the bench.
That's the basis to Greatness
As competition arrives to DC, “prima dona” signin’ geto out of town.
There has been a lot of comments about this uncapped season and our frenitic seach, which by the way never happened. Instead we now have a different aproach gettin’ comptition at almost all positions and that will only bring put the best of any player.
I still trus the Shanaplan to work out big time for us.
HAIL!
I like that Shanahan TALKS about competition
I just wish there actually was competition at the spots we needed the most help in. Our tackle situation is abysmal. Silverback has no competition at LT. Hicks is solid but hardly much competition for Heyer. Heyer has a strong shot at the RT position and is the backup LT by default just like last year. If Heyers play last year didn’t demand more viable competition this year then who does? Capers is a decent pickup but I hardly doubt he will be pushing people in Training Camp. Same goes for FS. No competition there. There is always “competition” because no team only has 22 guys on their roster. For it to be real competition there has to be viable talent and at a couple positions on our team it’s basically a contest to suck the least and certain guys were basically handed startin spots because there isn’t viable competition at that spot. I mean is there any way for Silverback not to be starting? Rabach? Someone is just gonna get handed the FS spot. There are very few spots where there is actual competition on this team IMO. Just lots of spots where we are trying to cobble together a spot between a bunch of castoffs and scrubs.
by BayAreaBullet on Apr 30, 2010 2:21 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
No competition for FS
Because they will all be competing for the SS position, and if they don’t win the SS spot they get to be burned 2-3 times a half for the rest of the year at FS.
Given our numerous needs....
I don’t think we had the luxury of making sure it happened at EVERY spot. We did bring in several FA LTs, but giving them the contracts they were looking for takes a lot of the wind out of the sails of needing to compete for the job. Our O-line still does have some decent competition (at everything other than LT) since so many of the guys are capable of playing multiple positions. Even with the 3 draft picks, I’d agree that the level of competition there doesn’t seem to be as much as it is elsewhere, so the guys won’t have to truly work their asses off to even make the team, but I don’t think anyone is assured a starting spot on that line short of Trent Williams.
In an interview LaRon Landry said
that there would not be a distinction between FS and SS positions. He thought that he would be playing more in the box which is generally considered the SS. It is still too early to know what this lack of distinction between FS and SS means.
by Jefferson1935 on Apr 30, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Landry did imply the same but so did Haslett
From the TORB:
“In our scheme we don’t have a strong and free,” Haslett said. “We have a left and right, open and closed. You can call it what you want. They have to know both spots because of motions and shifts. You can call it strong, free, it doesn’t really make a difference. They will all be in the box. They will all be in space. They will all blitz. They will all do a number of different things.” (This also squares with Chris Horton’s description of the two positions to me a few weeks back.)
Given the Redskins position with Safety’s this will be a good change
Landry is huge!
(He claims to be shooting for an improbable-sounding 240 pounds, and is currently hovering around 230. “It ain’t never gonna stop,” Landry when asked about his muscle gain.)
That's awesome!!
As I watched him last year I was like “the only thing he needs to get better is more muscle”.
by BayAreaBullet on Apr 30, 2010 6:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm disappointed
that this isn’t followed by many lols.
Insert something witty here.
by Knubles and Bits on May 2, 2010 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Landry
So he’s gaining weight. Doesn’t that normally cut your speed? A little odd, because his problem wasn’t strength, but speed and coverage skills. Also, poor tackling technique, not lack of muscle. In fact, not physical condition at all, but football intelligence. Are they maybe going to try him out at linebacker? Of course, it is nice to see him working out – at least he won’t get tired.
That Question on OLB was asked, and the answer is no
Based on what I’ve read it was less football intelligence and more not being coached and placed in a position to succeed.
Haslett’s analysis of Landry in particular:
“I think you have to put him in the right spot. He is so, so fast that he doesn’t know how to temper his speed. The guy is unbelievably fast, and I think once we can harness that a little bit and get him to take some better angles, I think he is going to be a better football player. The scheme will help him and some of the things we will do will help him. He’s a talented kid, he really is. He has unbelievable speed. If we can take advantage of it and use it right, I think it will be to his best advantage and to ours. It will help us win more games.”
He admits it as well:
“I don’t wanna be put in a position like I was in last year,” Landry said. “It wasn’t — I can’t say it was the defensive scheme or anything like that — but I was free safety, more of a ‘savior’ of the defense, and my gameplay is more an aggressive-type style. And bein’ free safety, you’ve really gotta sit back and let things come to you, but in the defense this year, I’m down in more action.”
Landry - weight and speed
Sounds good – I wanna believe. They’re saying that even if he loses a little speed because of the weight gain, he’ll still be blazing fast. We’ll see.
I do believe
Sounds good – I wanna believe
Blind Freddy could see that Blache was completely screwing up the Defensive scheme as far as our personell went last year.
We had a Cornerback (Carlos) who cant catch but is great and playing tight and taking a reciver out of the game, so Blache hah him sit 15 yards of the line of scrimmage and just give up the underneath play
and Landry spent his whole year patrolling a space 30 yards behind the line of scrimmage, when he was drafted to be an impact attack the line of scrimmage type safety, more like Polomalu than Reed.
I think we can all agree now that Blache either just didnt care anymore or had lost the plot last year
AND BEFORE IT STARTS, regardless of what the stats say about us being good this is still true, the reason our Defensive Stats were good is because of the amazing talent we have/had on that side of the Ball, not due to the scheme
Pommylee
OLB competition?
Who are our OLBs likely to be in a 4-3, and how much competition do we have there? With Carter reportedly having struggled with it the 1 year he was in a 4-3, that seems like a another weakness in our defense that could use the competition.
yeah sorry, can't drink the kool aid
Willie Parker and Larry Johnson are more likely than not going to be repeats of the failed Shaun Alexander attempt 2 years ago. Portis can still produce at a nice level, but he’s definitely worn down and is on the downward trend. By any objective measure our WRs are all subpar. Maybe one of them has a third year leap, but more likely no. Our offensive line will have zero time playing together and will be probably about average at best. Our safeties are a gaping problem, our defense is ok, but has yet to show it can produce turnovers.
Sorry, the dozen or so mediocre players you cite in your article do not convince me that a team of competitive mediocrity will be a winning team this year.
My doublestuffed oreos fell on the floor of my mom's basement. Save me swagman!
by SomebodyBuyAustinaSteak on Apr 30, 2010 2:34 PM EDT reply actions
Better than
a mediocre team with out competition.
+1
better than a mediocre team without competition.
by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Apr 30, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
WR Development
WR is one area that I think you will see true development. Between Thomas, Kelly, and Mitchell I think two of the three develop into very solid starters. With Donovan behind center these guys are going to grow. Additionally, Cooley and Davis are going to be a handful for opposing defenses.
If one of the vet receivers contributes in a complimentary way we’re way ahead of last year.
I’d agree that next year I still have concerns with the line developing continuity and depth. And you can argue that the receiver development is contingent upon keeping Donovan upright. That said, we still have months to sort out the line and add solid depth through trade/FA.
I understand your point
and don’t completely disagree, but I don’t think either Parker OR LJ will be the same as Alexander. Neither has the miles on them that he had. I believe Parker has the least of all three, and wouldn’t be surprised to see him carrying the bulk of the load. Either way, the point was (and I don’t see how you can disagree) that Parker and LJ are an upgrade over Betts and Cartwright (and Alridge). Are they the Parker and LJ of 2006? Hell no. But if they were, they wouldn’t be competing for DEPTH on our team. Ah, there’s that word. Depth. We actually have depth all around the roster. Maybe not at the OT spot, but you can’t get everything in 1 year with 4 (to 6) draft picks.
Personally I would rather have Betts(Pre-knee injury) and Cartwright
I understand why they were cut. Especially with Betts’s knee. Personally I think we went into last year with more talent at RB. I do like that Portis won’t be handed the job though. I’m not saying we will have a worse running game at all but I think we had more talent at RB at the beginning of last year.
by BayAreaBullet on May 1, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
To clarify because I thought you meant we have an upgraded RB trio over last year.
Last year we Had Portis coming off a Huge season. This year he is coming off a bad year and a serious concussion(a troubling injury for an aging RB). So thats a downgrade.
Betts was 3 years removed from a 1,000 yard season. LJ is 4 years. They both need alot of carries to be effective rushers and aren’t change of pace backs. Betts was a better pass catcher. Thats kindof a wash.
Rock was a ST captain and played on all 4 units. He was a decent pass catcher. Parker is 2 years removed from a 1,000 yard season and doesn’t play ST. Advantage Parker.
I think we will be better because Portis will be benched if ineffective. That was not the case last year. I also think the O-line will be better. I think Shanahan and the coaching will help. I think by taking all 3 of these guys into camp we give us a good chance of turning up atleast one(I feel 2 will stick) viable veteran RB. I just don’t neccesarily see it as a more talented RB trio than we had last year as those 3 need to be augmented with a speedy guy who can catch passes and play ST.
I do think that you are right that those 3 fighting for one or 2 spots will give us a better eventual RB group. I just don’t see the three of them competing amongst themselves in the regular season. I see all 3 competing to be an upgrade over Portis last year I guess not as the trio you bring into the game day roster.
by BayAreaBullet on May 1, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess we'll agree
to disagree. While I was a huge fan of Rock, I don’t think he was ever the runner Parker or LJ is, even now. As for their order, I would put Parker ahead of LJ at this point, with LJ being more of a goal like option. I think Parker could be the change of pace back we haven’t had since Trung Canidate Ricky Ervins. Is he old? Yes. But he doesn’t have a ton of miles on him, and I think he can be effective for a season or two if his injury is healed. I know that’s a big if, but IF I had to choose between Parker after an injury and Betts after injury, I’ll take Parker any day of the week. Everyone points out that Betts was just a few years removed from a 1000 yard season, but what they fail to realize is that he has been largely ineffective since that season. And, even more evident is the fact that he is an awful blocker on 3rd down. Always has been. Which, in turn, makes him an awful 3rd down back.
Fair enough
I’m just more skeptical about older RB’s dramatically reversing a trend of decline than others on this blog. Especially since Shanny has never produced a 1,000 yard runner with someone that has as many carries(and as old) as those guys. It will certianly cement his status as a “RB Guru.”
by BayAreaBullet on May 3, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno about this
By any objective measure our WRs are all subpar
Thomas when given opportunities by Zorn (which Zorn rarely gave him) always seemed to show something
And Kelly has just been injured one way or another for 2 years.
I know this doesnt mean anything, but I went back and checked the mock drafts from before that year last week, and pretty much the consensus was that Thomas would go on the edge of the Top 10 and Kelly at the bottom of the first Round.
So they obviously have some talents that football people appreciated.
I think we give them one more year, with a decent coach and an O-line that lets the QB give them the time to get open, before we make judgements on their ceiling
Pommylee
Yea, we can't clean up Vinny and Zorn's mess in one year
but this new (to DC) philosophy will be impressive in 2-3 years. Which is why I’m confused as to why the Redskins think they can deep in the playoffs THIS year. Even if the Skins start 6-2, they’re one injury away and with the lack of depth at oline like everyone says will bury us again.
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Apr 30, 2010 2:41 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
if our goal is to have a winning season in 2-3 years...
how come we are only bringing in over-the-hill guys and not younger guys who will develop into stars?
My doublestuffed oreos fell on the floor of my mom's basement. Save me swagman!
by SomebodyBuyAustinaSteak on Apr 30, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Something I ask myself alot.
by BayAreaBullet on Apr 30, 2010 2:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
because you’re even less likely to get “younger guys who will develop into stars” off of FA signings of undrafted rookies. And between not trading away the little we gave away for a legitimate QB and leader, the team not only finally has a consistent quarterback, and leader, but also a personality who can give the team some identity. Looking at the risk/reward of a scenario without McNabb, the risk/reward that we’d have gotten a young guy who would’ve developed into a star with the 37th overall pick is pretty much zero. “not younger guys who’ll develop into stars,” where are these ‘younger guys who’ll turn into stars’ coming from? Like the other posters’ve said, a culture of competition and reasonable developmental projects are what’s going to turn this franchise around, not just signing players purely because they’re young.
by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Apr 30, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
well they're certainly not going to come from...
Larry Johnson, Bobby Wade, Willie Parker, Joey Galloway, etc. etc. bringing in those guys is taking up roster space with people that have no chance of developing into good players (or relapsing into being good players)…
better to take flyers on guys like Carriker who most likely won’t work out, but at least still have a chance.
My doublestuffed oreos fell on the floor of my mom's basement. Save me swagman!
by SomebodyBuyAustinaSteak on Apr 30, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll have to respectfully disagree here
Not that all of those guys you mention will crack our opening day roster, but the contributions of those kinds of players are going to be integral not just to our ability to be competitive on the field immediately, but also to the development of the same players you wish we were just throwing at the dogs right away.
When you talk to guys like Brian Mitchell, Doc Walker, Joe Theismann (players who won Super Bowls here), they talk about the older vets who kicked them in the butt when they were young players (Monte Coleman in Brian Mitchell’s case), or seasoned vets that showed them how to be pros (Sonny and Billy for Theismann.)
You also can’t discount the impact a coach like Shanahan can have on players like Willie Parker, Larry Johnson, or even Joey Galloway. Sure, they might not be as great as they once were, and they might not ever be able to get back to that level…but because Shanahan is who he is, they believe that if they bust their ass, they will be given a fair shake. This lesson is crucial in Shanny’s first offseason. If any of the young players on our roster have what it takes to shine in the NFL for us, this will bring it out of them.
It occurs to me that a very good way to rebuild a roster under a new regime is NOT to simply throw a bunch of young players on the field to see which ones can play, but rather have those same young players learn how to fight for their jobs so that when they do earn starting roles, they fight like hell to keep them.
by Ken Meringolo on Apr 30, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
You act like we don't have Vets here
They can learn from London, daniels, rabach, dockery, hicks, Moss etc…. Lots of vets just little depth.
by BayAreaBullet on Apr 30, 2010 7:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
yes we have vets.....
and a few of those you listed could use a little kick in the ass to get going as well (not all….London is one of the few that are on the team now that I would put on my all time Redskins list) ….when went into the draft with 4 picks and it looks like we got 3 that most are excited about (Williams, Morris, Selvish) to good possibles (Cook, and the LB, Phillips?) and a wild card…Plus Carriker who is still young and Jarrmon. When is the last time you remember this kind of influx of youth? Shanny can’t be everywhere at once,
influx of youth?
We added what would amount to a normal draft class for other teams. We still have to be one of the older teams in the league. We are not suffering from a lack of veterans or having a team that is too young. I was saying we weren’t facing a situation where we were throwing a bunch of youth out there without veteran guidance.
by BayAreaBullet on Apr 30, 2010 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
my point exactly!!!!
We added what would amount to a normal draft class for other teams….and we did that with the fewest picks in the draft…..where do you expect these players to come from?
where are you at anyway bay Area?
Generally of course, I have a lot of people out there, lived there for a very crucial part of my life….and love it.
I thought when you said influx you meant more youth than average for an offseason
Like what the Eagles did. All we did was having a pretty poor overall draft class(1st, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 3 7ths) and a guy who was about to be cut(Carriker). Not saying there was all this great youth talent out there I just don’t feel like we need Vets just for the sake of having Vets. They need to be able to contribute on the field. Most of our best players are older guys so I feel like we have a solid veteran core.
I live in SF. Outer Sunset specificaly. I’m 1 block south of Golden Gate Park and 9 blocks East of Ocean Beach. I love it out here.
by BayAreaBullet on Apr 30, 2010 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
nice.......
I started living up off Cailfornia, could sit on the roof and see the bridge, was super nice, lasted almost a year but out of my bracket, had a place right on Haight and Cole for a couple of years and then to the Avenues (27th and Lincoln)…..worked for Bill Graham through the Fillmore and Warlield theatres……love it and miss it
Thats really cool Magic
The main reason I moved out here was for the music scene and have been to the Warfield and Fillmore alot. Whenever I can’t mooch free tix off some of my friends who do promoting and booking out here I work street team or security or something. Totally jealous you got to work for Bill Graham. I’ve been waiting for 2 months to start a second job at one of the smaller venues at Divisadero and Hayes.
by BayAreaBullet on May 1, 2010 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey BAy
There are cheap flights to the West Coast from Austrlia at the moment $1079 return.
About how much does it cost to fly from the West Coast to DC return??
is it under $200 USD cos if so, I could be there this September
Pommylee
with enough notice...
one-way from the Bay Area to DC should be right around $200 actually. I went round trip last year (DC-SF-DC) for about $360.
yeah a couple friends just got $250 round trip from SF to NYC
Never tried 1 way flights but you should get them for under $200. Try Virgin I know they have super cheap 1-way flights. Also Oakland airport is as close to SF as the SF airport and usually alot cheaper to fly into and out of. As we’ve talked before you have a place to crash out here Pommy. September is the best month of the year out here so I doubt I will make it out to DC till October or so.
by BayAreaBullet on May 3, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
ur a star Bay
and thanks all for replying (magic hat too)
Its still more likely next year, but it is very tempting to be there in September, to see McNabb before he gets injured :)
Pommylee
how about we not have rookies just for having rookies
i don’t think shanahan’s signing these veterans because he thinks they’re larry fitzgerald, but for over 2 years we’ve gotten nothing from thomas or kelly from training camp into the regular season. turn that phrase on it’s head, we drafted and improved at the most important position on the field and the weakest spot on our team, O-line. see jamesumd’s post below too, signing rookies off the trash heap doesn’t seem like a smarter personnel decision to provide competition to our lazy young wide receivers that have given us pretty much zilch for 2 years, even as early as training camp. how about we not sign youth just for the sake of having youth
by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on May 1, 2010 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Take a look
You need the vets in position.
All 10 or 11 of the WR have 3 years or less except Moss Galloway and Wade
again at RB- Portis, Betts, and Rock didn’t show the leadership and 2 are gone. If you have no leaders than place everyone equal to get the extra effort as shanahan has done at RB
it’s real coaching to get the most out of a player
by dr WNC on Apr 30, 2010 8:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I really disagree
I think a grizzled Vet, 2 improving 3rd year players, and a developmental 2nd year player is an ideal mix at WR. I just think the idea that now the onus is on DT and MK to earn their spots because we have JOEY GALLOWAY now is absurd. At some point on field production matters and the simple fact of the matter is that DT and MK are much better recievers than Galloway right now. The onus is on Galloway. Wade might give MM a run for his money but I don’t see this as really pushing MK or DT and I don’t think we will suffer from lack of over the hill vets at the WR position. The competition there is in name only.
As for RB I just don’t get your point. So we remove noted cancer Betts and replace him with noted team leader Larry Johnson? Come on we have 3 over the hill guys fighting amongst themselves. Those 3 are battling to show they are still an NFL caliber player not pushing some youngster.
by BayAreaBullet on Apr 30, 2010 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions
what a joke
it’s nothing short of baffling how hysterical you think it is that we signed galloway for depth and are so embarrassingly rah-rah about malcolm kelly and devin thomas. for 2 years they’ve shown up out of shape, got hurt, then when finally healthy have produced between the both of them a single 100-yd. game against the 2009-2010 season’s 26th-worst passing defense. Let’s hear some legitimate argument (you’re almost obligated to either make one up or respond with deafening silence) with evidence/statistics to back up that kelly and thomas are reliable, provide something other than your assumption or “your word” because it makes no sense to anyone with half a mind
by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on May 1, 2010 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Did you follow Galloways last 2 seasons?
13 catch season in 2008. 7 catches last year when he had a rosy setup. DT had 15 catches and then 25 last year. He has outperformed Galloway both years in the league. MK had 3 in 2008 and 25 last year. He vastly outperformed Galloway last year. Based on production right now MK and DT are better. They are improving, Galloway is declining rapidly. What makes you think Galloway is going to be better than them? You hear a big name and get all excited completely ignoring what he has provided his team the last 2 years. That certainly sounds like Vinny to me. You have no empirical evidence that Galloway is a better WR than them right now.
Look considering most of your postings are rants about DT and MK I get it. Yout think they suck, you think they will always suck, anyone with a name you recognize is therefore better. If you were talking about Wade you might have an argument but your not. Your talking about a guy who in on his 4th team in 3 years and has caught a grand total of 20 balls for the last 2 seasons. All I’m saying is that I don’t expect DT or MK to be worse than they were last year. Galloway would have to be signficantly better than he was the last 2 years to be better than they were last year. If you don’t wanna drink any Kool-Aid on them thats fine but you are losing credibility when you malign their production and then trumpet a guy who hasn’t produced for the last 2 seasons.
by BayAreaBullet on May 1, 2010 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions
And Zorn's kindergarden offense did not help them
Plus, they were not on the field enough, Especially when we all knew it was a lost season. Get them experience. And to top it off, JC was on his back a ton too. they will be average eventually.
+ hip hip hoorah!!!
Zorn screwed Chad Rhinehart, Fred Davis, Devin Thomas and Kelly
The proof of this is Fred Davis was seen as a bona fide BUST until Cooley went down and Zorn was FORCED to sue him, then suddenly he got to express his skills,
Thomas at the backend of last season eventually got included in the GamePlan and produced.
Rhinehart actually played alright in that game he broke his leg, and if my memory is right, that was the first time Zorn had let him play consecutive games (and Broken legs are bad luck, not down to conditioning)
Kelly has still notbeen given a chance,
The point is Zorn REFUSED TO TRUST HIS ROOKIES.
Shanahan should and probably will, then we can really see what they are capable of, in a mature well structured offense, rather than the Zorn debacle, and with a QB who will have time to throw them the ball and a coach who encourages them to get the ball, then we can make judgements
Pommylee
To me its about changing the culture.
Shanahan needs veteran players to help him instill the new identity and approach. Players that have been around the block and have faced adversity.
We could only make so many moves this offseason and had a very limited draft. We were also constrained by the labor situation with so many players that would have been UFA instead being RFA.
If we can have some continuity for two years and slowly bring more young and skilled players in, we will have a base to build on.
Kevin, We have better dept at O-line then we did for most of last year. We have most of the guys that played last year. We also have several new players.
These guys have to be better then they were last year. They also have a better blocking scheme. You guys will agree with me, Joe B. was allowing the line to slip. Once you see the same guys in the new scheme kicking butt.
by LETJASONPASS on Apr 30, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks...I agree with you on the approach you outline above
These signings we are seeing lack the capriciousness that always seemed to be present with signings under Cerrato. Until Shanahan and Allen can bring in 2-3 (full) rookie classes, our best chance to be competitive on the field is to breed competition off the field among players who probably can only give us a couple good years.
by Ken Meringolo on Apr 30, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
The Skins' effort to bring in undrafted free agents:
Compared to most other teams that had more 2010 draft picks, it seems that the Redskins have not been as aggressive in this pursuit and that the best of the undrafted free agents have been signed by other teams. IMO, the Teams focus on the defensive line for the 3-4 transition with veteran players has taken away from efforts to develop depth on the offensive line and other areas of need. While the defensive line focus may increase competition in that area, the opposite is true for other team positions. I had downloaded the top 650 draft prospects from CBS Sports prior to the draft with the assumption that such as a number would be enough to cover any potential undrafted rookie free agents that the Team might sign or even try out. A few of the players identified thus far are not even within the CBS Sports top 650 prospects. Perhaps there are some sleepers in those ranks, but there are not likely to be many.
by Jefferson1935 on Apr 30, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
+1 too much focus on the Dline, not enough on the Oline
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Apr 30, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
it does seem that way
and I have no clue…..and I feel like there were things that seemed to slip by, but I do like what we have done it is about team….which is key, and it is also old school, can it be overdone. Elite atheletes perform on such a high level physically that the “group of rag-tags with heart” doesn’t fly any more……..but if I know this sittin here, on my second large manhattan-ish glass’o drinkables, makin Pizza, and typing on HH Shanny knows it too.
say that back to yourself 3 times very slowly
“the Redskins have not been as aggressive in this pursuit and that the best of the undrafted free agents have been signed by other teams”
You are basically saying they haven’t sifted through the trash heap adequately,in the hopes of finding a used laptop that still works……..
I will give the front office the offseason before I “try” to assume I have a better grasp on NFL team building and scouting :)
What you have shaded is supposedly quotation stuff.
Given the extent that undrafted free agents make up of NFL team rosters, such players could not be considered the trash heap. The majority of NFL teams make a major effort to bring in between 10 to 30 rookies each season. A list of such players is shown by position in the linked file – http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2010/04/2010-udfa-list-position.html
A similar list is shown by team – http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/p/2010-nfl-undrafted-free-agents.html. Some teams are showing more try out players than others. Obviously, the standard mode of operation in the NFL is not the one employed by the Redskins in 2010 and successful teams like Colts were on the phones lining up UDFA last Saturday after the draft was completed. It is true that there were roughly 1,900 prospective players that were available and a large majority are not NFL quality. The 2010 draft included 255 players and there may be another 300 to 500 UDFAs also given a shot.
by Jefferson1935 on May 1, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm sorry but where do you get the information...
Colts were lining up UDFA and the Redskins were not?
UDFA, can choose to sign with the team THEY choose, based on salary and other aspects.
It seems Vinny used the UDFA as the only reserves on the team.
According to the linked sight:
Redskins
Logan Paulsen, TE, UCLA
Anderson Russell, FS, Ohio State
Marques Slocum, DT, Eastern Arizona
Keiland Williams, RB, LSU
Daryll Clark, QB, PSU
Maurice Greer, RB, Troy
Tony Nelson, RB, UMass (Tryout)
Jaevery McFadden, LB, Wisconsin (Tryout)
Derrick Townsel, WR, Murray State (Tryout)
Bo McNally, S, Stanford (Tryout)
Klint Kubiak, S, Colorado State (Tryout)
11 players
Ravens-8 players
Colts-13 players
Steelers-8 players
Yes, there are teams which have 20 to 25 players such as the Giants
The plan appears to be for the Redskins FA signings to provide quality backups, in 2 to 3 years they can begin to bring in 20 to 25 UDFA to find the one or two special ones and at the end of the DAY!
ALL TEAMS HAVE AN 80 player roster, how many of those 80 can be UDFAs for a 4-12 team?
I did not make an attempt to mention all the teams in the following:
“Obviously, the standard mode of operation in the NFL is not the one employed by the Redskins in 2010 and successful teams like Colts were on the phones lining up UDFA last Saturday after the draft was completed.”
I could have mentioned the Ravens as easily as the Colts.
I gave you two files that you have apparently accessed. I would not assume that those lists are complete for all the UDFA. The CBS Sports site can be used to view one of the more comprehensive list of all draft prospects –
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/TSX/2010. At the bottom of the first page there is a range just past 1951-1977 for the “All” category. You can use your web browser’s find feature to look up the players that you have identified as signed or tryout UDFAs. After about the 750th player the ranking is discontinued. The are some prospects that went to the 2010 Combines such as Dennis Rogan, FS, a prospect from a major college program – Tennessee. It could be said that such players were highly thought of enough to get invited to the Combines. You can also attempt to find the Scouts Inc grade for many if not most of the prospects.
One player that I thought was a sleeper mentioned in HH – http://www.google.com/search?q=jefferson1935+%22Andrew+Tyshovnytsky%22+sleeper&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a – was called by the Colts moments after the draft was over. http://www.indysportsnation.com/sports/isn-042810-fordham-colts-story,0,7586433.story While this is only one case in point, the Colts were very aggressive to try to obtain the player that they had identified as a likely UDFA prospect prior to the draft. The lines of communication were already established. I am only mentioning this case because I wanted to see what would develop. The Giants more than likely targeted Michael Greco ahead of time.
This is the way to get the best UDFA candidates.
While CBS Sports is only one site that produces such a list of prospect, it is free and one that I have used for some months. Also the Scouts Inc grades can be found by inserting the first and last name of the player at http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft. I would acknowledge that to scout all prospects before the draft is a very difficult task and further, it is not an exact science, scouts opinions involved. Of the UDFA that the Skins have signed as well as the late round draft picks (except Capers) none were rated that well.
Of the 11 UDFA on your Skins’ list six were signed and the other 5 were tryouts. There was a player the Jets were going to bring in for a tryout and the Skins contacted him a day later with a better deal. I did not find more information on this player.
You listed UDFA counts for Ravens-8 players; Colts-13 players; and Steelers-8 players. When you add these figures to the number of draft picks they had, you see a greater influx of new players that can possibly make the 53 man roster or the practice squad than the Redskins can be projected to select from. The switch to the 3-4 defense likely has precluded the UDFA from being a larger part of the 2010 Skins’ roster due to the large number of free agent defensive linemen already on the roster.
If you do the digging, how many of the UDFA the Skins have signed fall with in the CBS Sports 7th round or FA
category? or How many are even ranked (particularly for the tryout players)?
by Jefferson1935 on May 1, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions
You mean the approach for 10 years
Man, we are like Pavlov’s dog as fans.
well didn't they draft
three OL with their few picks? Signed the Vikes top backup lineman, plus one of Shanahans old ZBS centers? Then picked up two more UDFA OL in the signing period post the draft? These guys then compete with who is already here, right… that’s everybody who was standing last plus 7 new guys? What is that, twelve to 13 guys?
The DL got an influx of guys who they project to be NT types in a 3-4 defense, not sure that there’s an undue emphasis there. They spent one draft pick on an ILB type, we have a large number of hybrid OLB types on the roster with Orakpo, McIntosh, C. Wilson, L. Alexander, only three ILB types with the LSU kid, London and HB Blades.
At least I see a methodology of sorts this time that hasn’t been present the last few years.
I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....
by piratedan7 on May 1, 2010 4:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
Until Shanahan and Allen can bring in 2-3 (full) rookie classes, our best chance to be competitive on the field is to breed competition off the field among players who probably can only give us a couple good years.
by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on May 1, 2010 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
There are 2 components to creating a Culture of Competition and so far we have achieved one of those
The first is to have a coach/FO who doesn’t hand out starting spots based on name recognition and is open to less heralded guys beating out vets. I think that has been satisfied by Shanny’s new approach. Nuff said.
The other component is having the talent at a position to create competition. It will take another year or 2 of drafts and smart FA signings to really create that at a significant amount of positions.
For instance at RB people are crowing about our “Competition”. I like that Portis isn’t handed the spot. But all we did was take 3 old guys who were the 3 worst runners between the tackles in the league last year and add some youngins who can’t stay on rosters. Taking 5 or 6 guys who are barely in the league and hoping to turn up 1 or 2 that are adequate is trying to band aid a position. Sure you might turn up an adequate guy in there but to me a true competition is when average starters are being pushed by other average starters or promising young players. To take 1 adequate guy(Hicks) and have him compete with a project who was an epic failure last year(Heyer), and a late seventh rounder isn’t exactly a “competition”. It’s a prayer. Silverback is handed the LT spot. Heyer is handed the backup LT spot. Rabach’s game would have to fall off a cliff to be challenged by Lich. or E. Williams. Joey Galloway has produced less than MK over the last 2 years and was handed a starting spot last year for the Pats and got cut. To think he is gonna push MK or DT is the height of Vinny-itis unless you know about secret HGH shipments that I don’t. At some point for this to be “competition” there need to be guys who don’t need a time machine to make a roster.
I like the competition at OG, Nickelback(For Barnes and Tryon more than Buchanon) and Fullback(Maybe TE if you think Davis can beat out Cooley). At other spots we are grasping at straws to fill a position. I think for us to reap the benefits we need to be upgrading from adequate-average not desperatley hoping to turn up an adequate guy. An example would be Arizona and their OG’s. They had 2 average-slightly below average OG’s last year(Letui and Wells). So they brought in Hadnot who is an upgrade over them and THEN brought in the over the hill vet who is trying to turn back the clock(Faneca). Now they have a serious OG competition which will improve their team.
Now all that being said I’m not saying Shanny isn’t trying to increase competition. He just had such a talent depleted roster(In the 53 player sense not the Kool-Aid drinking only thinking about the starters sense.) I’m totally cool with him bringing in alot of long shots to try and fill out the roster when we are switching offensive and defensive systems the same year. When you have that many holes you have to duct tape together some spots. It will take him a year or 2 to increase the overall talent so I think we should prepare to be patient before declaring the “Competition” a “Game changer”. There are only a handful of spots where there is legitimate competition. Most of the spots people talk about are really us taking a bunch of guys who arguably don’t belong in the league and hoping we can find a starter. Let’s be a little more patient as I think it will take a year or 2 before we start reaping the benefits.
totally agree with your assesment of positions and competition
and I also believe in a 2 to 3 season timetable.
I’m willing to be patient, hell, it’s been 15 years of Chaos, a couple more under a plan won’t be so hard. But the question is…..
will Danny be patient?
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Apr 30, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Competition
Competition is just a way to pick the best players from among those available. It doesn’t make anybody better. Competition on its own doesn’t mean much – 3 losers competing are still going to result in a loser winning the job. So I don’t really agree with the basic point of the post. In the end, we’re going to field a certain group of players, and how we do depends on how good those guys are. If Heyer starts at either tackle, we’re screwed – we won’t win 8 games – it would show our O-line is lousy. I think it’s obvious that we need one more good tackle to feel comfortable with our O-line, although starting out with TW, Dock, Rabach, BMW and Hicks (with Hicks also backing up LT and Capers backing up RT) could be good, but very thin – vulnerable to injuries. Basically, we only have one decent LT – very dangerous. At WR, we only have one proven winner – Moss. DT/MK – I’ll believe it when I see it. Galloway is done. Mitchell could improve, and Roydell Williams could surprise. At RB, I’m puzzled. CP is great, but not a big breakaway threat anymore. I wonder about Alridge and the two rookies. On a more general note – the last few years I heard all about walk-ons, UDFAs, tryout sessions, local heroes, all guys wanting a chance. 100-1 against most of them. I haven’t heard much about these types this year. It’s been veterans using up the 80 slots. A different strategy.
The Offensive Line as a Unit -
While I agree in a large part with Donnio’s comment:
“I think it’s obvious that we need one more good tackle to feel comfortable with our O-line, although starting out with TW, Dock, Rabach, BMW and Hicks (with Hicks also backing up LT and Capers backing up RT) could be good, but very thin – vulnerable to injuries. Basically, we only have one decent LT – very dangerous.” It takes working together as an offensive line unit, sometimes for more than one season, to equate with a good or even great offensive line. Tiller had some reservations with Capers based on his Senior Bowl perception and Carver mentioned the short term problems of an offensive player getting up to speed especially in an all star game versus less difficulty for the competing defensive player. Even early in the season the defense is typically ahead of the offense for players who have played together for awhile. I am optimistic about Capers’ performance before mid-season. At guard, it would not surprise me if BMW wasn’t nearly on a par at RG as Dockery level is at LG. Dockery’s performance was like night and day with the Skins versus his play in 2008 with the Bills.
You're crazy
At guard, it would not surprise me if BMW wasn’t nearly on a par at RG as Dockery level is at LG.
Dockery doesn’t light the world on fire but at least he’s athletic, can pull, and doesn’t get destroyed by speed rushers on stunts.
MW regularly looked like a statue out there.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
The Dockery's performance versus that of BMW at guard.
Dockery allowed 2 sacks, 4 QB hits, and 10 QB pressures in 2009. He also did not have a postive rating for run blocking.
http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=1&surn=D&playerid=1396
In 2008, Dockery allowed 6 sacks,10 QB hits, and 10 QB pressures. His pass protection blocking with the Skins was much better in 2009 (8.8 rating) than it was with the Bills in 2008 (1.1). In contrast his run blocking was better with the Bills (2.6 rating) than with the Skins (-4.2).
http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2008&surn=D&playerid=1396&group=1
Look at the performance of Williams ONLY at RG in 2009. It would not take much of an improvement at RG by Williams to play up to the level of Dockery at LG.
http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=4&surn=W&playerid=1012
Most of the sacks allowed, QB hits, and QB pressures by BMW were at RT while 2/3rds of the snaps he played were at RG. He did have a sprained ankle playing against Dallas in week 16. The reasoning for expecting a better performance from BMW in 2010 versus what he did in 2009 is primarily conditioning (it was a big leap to drop 100 lbs and still have strength and endurance last year).
On the other hand, the information available does not suggest the possibility of BMW improving that much at tackle. He can’t handle outside pass rushers any better than Heyer.
While not for specific players, Football Outsiders 2009 information for offensive line statistics – http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol – in their 2nd table for MID/GUARD Adjusted Line Yards = 4.30 and NFL ranked 9th and RIGHT TACKLE ALY = 4.60 and NFL ranked 5th supports the notion that the center to right tackle part of the OL was better at run blocking than the majority of NFL teams. The team did not do so well when plays were directed to the outside (right or left).
My point is there is some hope for the OL to be at least average in performance in 2010 rather than one of the worst like in 2009. It is crazy not to expect a better OL including BMW performance.
by Jefferson1935 on May 3, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't argue with the stats
However I still think MW is a liability, and Dockery, while average, is at least athletic.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
The offensive line as a unit...
right now none of us know…. especially with the new scheme. ZBS from what I discern requires I completely different skill set than what have we have been doing with the lineman we have now. We don’t know what some of these players are going to do. I think we have some lineman that are young(er) and very young when Zorn took over……even Gibbs, he might have tried to fit the players to the scheme, instead of fitting the scheme to the players…..(Portis was never gonna run on Diesel fuel) He was pounding square pegs into no holes (yes thats an OL reference, and I am engulfed in imbibing…testing new stuff from Spirits USA….anyway good stuff, wont even to endorse, and I am being far too verbose for one post)
anyone see the preseason rankings by ESPN? what a joke
http://espn.go.com/nfl/powerrankings?year=2010&week=0
Picking the still imploding/bad drafting Broncos, the 49ers with Gore and Alex Smith, the Panthers with stale/bad John Fox, the good RB duo and Matt Moore fighting Jimmy Clausen, to finish ahead of us is like picking the Royals to win it in October. Speaking of Arizona with Leinart, Tennessee with who’s left, Philadelphia in a rebuilding year, NYG when it doesn’t know what kind of team it is, Pittsburgh without their serial rapist for 6 games or its #1 receiver from last year, so assuredly speaks to their analysis. Not like we expect to turn it all around in one year, but at least to me it seems pretty obvious ESPN’s just pandering to popular opinion with pop analysis
by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on May 1, 2010 2:05 AM EDT reply actions
haven't you figured out yet
that the Redskins get NO respect from the national media. I say this every year – we could win the Superbowl, and still be picked to finish last in the division the following year.
Now, granted, we do turn out to be just as bad as “predicted” a lot of the time. So there’s not much to say there. What’s funny is that Dallas underachieves EVERY year, yet is still atop the preseason predictions the following year.
Anyway, let them dump on us. More motivation for guys like Shanny and McNabb to prove they’ve still got it, and for guys like B-Rak, Thomas and Davis to put themselves in the national conversation.
We kind of deserve it
obviously a lot of these rankings are just a popularity contest but you can’t expect people to be making bold predictions about a team that just went 4-12 and only had 1 pick in the top 3 rounds of the draft. We’ve been mediocre to poor for over 10 years and have a jackass meddler of an owner until proven otherwise. Until that changes we shouldn’t expect respect from the national media.
sure
I completely agree. I’m talking more about over the course of time. And yes, I know over the course of time we have been more bad than good. But I have seen other bad teams get better recognition than us over the years.
You have to blame the ownership
the media will get behind an underdog story from time to time but megalomania and disconnect from reality in the front office make that a tough narrative to push.
Even this season Donovan McNabb is either going to be the best move the Redskins have made in a decade or the same old story of an aging veteran who had a lot of success in someone else’s system brought in to under perform. Despite my desire to drink the kool-aid I worry that the latter is more likely. Give Shanahan and Allen a solid 5 years of draft picks and professionalism and maybe that outlook will start to change but we are our recent, very difficult to defend past until we show everyone something different.
like I said
I can’t disagree with you there. I despise Snyder and what he’s done with this franchise. But I’ve seen abysmal teams like Arizona and Cincinnati (before they’re recent success) get better coverage and more respect than us. Again, I’m not defensing Snyder’s ways in the least. But I will say that I will take an owner spending too much over an owner spending not enough any day of the week. And I’m not just talking about TV. I’ve been a subscriber to Sporting News and Sports Illustrated for 10 years now, and I can’t recall one feature story on the Redskins. Meanwhile, there’s a story on Dallas every year, even though, in the grand scheme of things, they’ve pretty much had the same level of success (or lack thereof) as we have.
Like I’ve said, I don’t expect them to anoint us preseason favorites for anything. All I’d like is a national story maybe once or twice A DECADE to show me that the rest of the country knows we exist.
I definitely agree
that the Cowgirls get way more of their share of coverage especially considering they never seem to live up to all the bold predictions. It’s just a money thing in my opinion. After all they are Uhmerka’s team.
by SkinsOsTerps on May 2, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
All of those teams were better than us last year.
So it’s hardly unreasonable to put them ahead of us now. McNabb doesn’t make us better than the Eagles, Giants or half the teams you mentioned.
Sorry man
Picking the still imploding/bad drafting Broncos, the 49ers with Gore and Alex Smith, the Panthers with stale/bad John Fox, the good RB duo and Matt Moore fighting Jimmy Clausen, to finish ahead of us is like picking the Royals to win it in October. Speaking of Arizona with Leinart, Tennessee with who’s left, Philadelphia in a rebuilding year, NYG when it doesn’t know what kind of team it is, Pittsburgh without their serial rapist for 6 games or its #1 receiver from last year, so assuredly speaks to their analysis. Not like we expect to turn it all around in one year, but at least to me it seems pretty obvious ESPN’s just pandering to popular opinion with pop analysis
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I disagree, to a point....
McNabb does not necessarily make us better than the 09 Eagles, but I think Kolb is still a ?? and the defense without Johnson is not what it was, so we will see (we actually played them fairly well last year). The Giants were 8-8 last year, I believe, and I don’t see them to be on the rise. We have a great chance to improve this year as we have addressed some serious needs and I think we will be much improved.
The Article and comments capture Redskins Nation!
The frustration and hope, what has occurred during the last 10 years and the hope of it finally changing but the hope is buffered due to the last 10 years…HTTR!
Need to have a lot more “Rec” on this post, EXCELLENT!
ESPN Rankings
Actually, not too bad, given the rather shallow analysis that goes into a power rating: last year plus a few known changes. They have us jumping 6 places and stronger than 9 teams, clearly due to Shanahan and McNabb. It recognizes that the 4-12 was an aberration. These things can change fast – win our first three games and we’ll be in the upper half (not that it makes much difference, unless maybe you’re an oddsmaker). We just have to go out and win. Putting us below Denver, Carolina, SF and maybe Tennessee could be debatable, but understandable. Ditto putting us above JAX. I agree though that the national media – like Robinson – have always sneered at us, found fault, etc. but they’ve been mostly right through the years. So until we prove them wrong, they’ll keep doing it. Going 11-5 and winning the division would shut them up good.
Keeping everyone on the same page is the big challenge
for the Skins next season
I think your O will be just fine next season….not GREAT but MUCH better than last year
I suspect your D will continue to be solid and with an offense that produces, I suspect the D will benefit
But I wonder how much of a distraction Haynes will be on D…what happens if the Skins lose some games….whether certain people start talking against others….
Lots of drama still on the team
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