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Tiller's Dollars and Cents:Trading Young Players for Picks; Is it a Risk Worth Taking for Redskins?

In today's NFL, draft picks are a highly valued commodity.  Teams are often quick to cut ties with over-paid veterans to garner themselves an extra pick in April's NFL Draft.  Today, aging vets are not the only ones being moved for future picks.  Teams are putting young players, some who have not lived up to their potential, on the chopping block to try and gauge interest on their worth from other teams.  To put it in other terms, one man's junk is another man's treasure.  But are teams being too quick to release these once coveted treasures, for the unknown?

The NFL draft is like betting the horses at the Kentucky Derby.  There are some who follow the horses like a religion, observing them from the time they run their first stakes race, until they set foot into the gates at Churchill Downs.  Others simply watch the horses come out onto the track for the first time at Churchill, look at their stride, demeanor, build and beauty, and declare their aesthetically pleasing favorite to be the one with whom their money will be placed.  Some are so naïve in the process that they pick a horse my name or number.  Point is, it's all a crap-shoot. There are too many unknown factors that can come into play when trying to pick the next Secretariet from a field of up to twenty relative unknowns.  Remember that these horses are only 3 years old at the time of the "Big Race".  Some come from overseas, and out of the clear eye of the American public.  Others are well known because of their lineage, and exceptional blood-lines.  Some have been groomed from day one to be Champions.  Others were purchased for a pittance at a stakes race, and have since exceeded expectations.  And then there are a few who just don't belong, but their owners have enough money, clout and arrogance to put them into the field anyways.  Post position, jockeys, the line they choose to take, stumbling, getting boxed out, and accidents all come into play when determining a winner.   So why do people throw their money away on such

The NFL Draft is much the same.

Every team has multiple scouts who are sent around the country to watch potential draft picks perform in practices and games.  Every year the NFL hosts the scouting combine, where the top prospects from around the country are invited to showcase their talents in front of high-ranking NFL personnel.  Colleges now host Pro Days, where prospects perform drills in the comfort of their own surroundings under the watchful eye of NFL representatives and coaches.  Teams also host personal workouts for prospects they are interested in.  So you think that NFL teams would have this down to a science right?  Think again. 

Star-divide

The NFL draft is no more a science than picking a racehorse to win the Kentucky Derby. Prospects who are graded high sometimes don't pan out.  Ryan Leaf, Desmond Howard, Tim Couch, Tony Mandarich, Heath Schuler, Brian Bosworth, Akili Smith, Lawrence Phillips, and Todd Marinovich to name a few are all high-profile picks who are now considered to be the biggest busts in the history of the NFL.  On the opposite end of the spectrum are guys like Tom Brady, Terrell Davis, Jared AllenBrandon MarshallMatt BirkMarques ColstonAsante Samuel, and TJ Houshmandzaheh, who all flew under the radar, but became stars in the NFL.  Much like selecting a race horse, selecting a player to draft can be pretty precarious.  Factors such as maturity, aptitude, system, team, injury and previous level of competition can all affect how a player will perform in the NFL.  Point is, there are too many variables, and not enough facts to make a good decision with any consistency; in other words, it's a crap shoot.

So why don't people wait until the Belmont or Preakness to select a horse to wager on?  This way they can see how the horses perform against others of the same caliber.  They have a book of work to base their decision upon, and the risk is a little more calculated.  Is it that people just want to be labeled the genius who found that diamond in the rough; the ones that pays out big when others thought that it would flounder, or is it those who did all the homework for months and months leading up to the big day just want to see all their scouting pay off for once, and say to their friends; see, I told you I knew what I was talking about.

Just like horse racing, why are so many teams willing to part ways with proven players to simply venture into the unknown.  Isn't a bird in the hand still worth two in the bush?  What motivated the Denver Broncos to part ways with one of the leagues' most talented young receivers in Brandon Marshall?  Why would the Eagles trade McNabb(whom I still view as young in terms of QB's), the quarterback who led them to five NFC championship games and a Super Bowl appearance, to a division rival none the less, for a 2nd round pick?  What were the Steelersthinking by giving up Santonio Holmes to the Jets for a 5th round pick?  Why are the Ravenssupposedly considering trading the young left tackle Jared Gaither for a 2nd rounder? 

In today's NFL, franchise altering decisions are made every day.  Coaches become icons, GM's become empowered, owners become arrogant, teams become dominate due to some of these moves, but they don't come without  heavy risk/reward.  The wrong move can set your franchise back years, while the right move can make you look like a genius.  Is it simply arrogance that team have that causes them to dive into the unknown?

Redskins fans have been calling for trades of guys like Chris CooleyCarlos Rogers and LaRon Landry.  I've even heard Chris Horton, Rocky McIntosh and Devin Thomas thrown out a few times.  These are productive players who are in their prime.  These are players who can make a significant contribution to our team.  These are also players who we have drafted and molded as Redskins.  Now why would we want to let these types of players go for some unknown player to be named?  This just doesn't make cents.

If you want my take, we need to develop the young talent we have on this team.  Trading away these young players could come back to haunt us.

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Trading for picks

Totally agree – it makes no sense to trade a proven player for a lower draft pick. They should ask, is a 5th round pick likely to help the team more than, say, Laron Landry? The lower picks are a pure crapshoot, mostly involving guys who will be journeymen, and who have not proven they are NFL quality yet. Of course, there are often other factors at work – like age, salary, and team needs. Same could apply to a proven star. Could we possibly expect a 2nd round pick to be as good as Albert Haynesworth? Not likely (not that they’d be dumb enough to make a trade like that).

by Donnio1234 on Apr 14, 2010 11:18 AM EDT reply actions  

Rocky is a rare success story

He was drafted, coached, and became a good, productive player. Hopefully Horton is the same.

Also, anyone saying we should trade Cooley should be kicked repeatedly in the balls

by Hustler of Culture on Apr 14, 2010 11:40 AM EDT reply actions  

haha

"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Apr 14, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think anyone wants Cooley to be traded

It’s just that if we are going to get younger (and most of us thought we were going to rebuild through the draft) we needed draft pick multipliers pulled out of positions we are deep at.

That’s IF we are going to go that direction. I’ve always said I like depth at the TE spot and think a 2TE offensive set would be a great advantage to us with Cooley and Davis because few, if any, teams will be able to match up to us.

Now it seems, we are going away from the draft, which is pretty scary. Worse yet, the pressure to trade someone like Chris could actually be greater now, since the FO is apparently out scouting Bradford and Clausen, according to the latest rumors. So there goes our number one pick and we have nothing left to enable us to get a premier lineman out of this year’s draft.

Unless ShannyCo have something planned out – like some real sleeper UDFAs or a trade for Gaither, we are repeating history.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Apr 15, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am thinking,

hoping, that he is just “going through the motions” and keeping up appearances here. If Bradford happens to fall to #4, although that looks to be very unlikely at this pint, or even just if Okung is gone, any appearance of leverage we have if he wants to trade down helps….I hope.

by MagicHat on Apr 16, 2010 6:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

No doubt

Cooley is a top 5 TE, and you’re right burgold21, Cooley is still underrated. The Skins probably wouldn’t get the value that Cooley is worth in a trade, then, drafting or trading for another TE (which would be completely redundant) of his calibur would be like pulling teeth. I’m in the ball kicking line on that one.

by Scorin' Scalps on Apr 14, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

TE

Is a position that doesn’t carry a ton of value. You aren’t going to get a heck of a lot in return, even for a top 5 TE.

by Kurtstack on Apr 14, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Im a big Cooley fan but

he is not underrated. The dude can’t block his own shadow. Plus I think Fred Davis will be as good/better than him in a couple of years.

by tw10 on Apr 14, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Personally I need to see a lot more of Davis before I even entertain this thought.
Plus I think Fred Davis will be as good/better than him in a couple of years.

"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Apr 14, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rocky was a high second round pick

His success story isn’t rare at all. Many second rounders, especially Linebackers, become pretty good.

Orakpo!!! Russel Okung next year!

by Horcasitas4 on Apr 14, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rare for the Skins

Not for other teams.

//That statement made me sad

by Hustler of Culture on Apr 14, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

To be fair, we did spend extra picks to get him

"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Apr 14, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm wearing my cup now, so...

I’m one of those who would not be against trading Cooley, but this is totally situational, that situation being:
1) We have another promising pass-catching TE in Fred Davis (who btw, I also would include in trade talks, though of course would keep one or the other).
2) Cooley is in the prime and thus worth almost the most he’d ever be (if he weren’t coming off IR).
3) Trading doesn’t have to be for just draft spots – it can be for another player who has shown themselves to be starting NFL / Pro Bowl caliber.
4) and most importantly – we have too many holes on the team and not enough draft spots to even potentially fill them, especially considering the defensive switch to a 3-4 and wondering if the personnel we have will translate well.

Ideally, HELL NO, I wouldn’t trade Cooley, but Vinny (and others) have ensured that we are presently in no ideal world.

by KenPat on Apr 14, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good post.

I think a lot has to do with team chemistry too. Do the players have the hunger to make sacrifices and push harder? Will they motivate the players around them to do the same? With young prospects, you can pick the attitude and mindset that fits your team’s culture (or at least what you think is their attitude and mindset, based on interviews and meetings).

A player like Brandon Marshall loves football and loves playing, but Josh McDaniels might think he isn’t the motivating franchise player he needs in the locker room – a player to rally around. McNabb was once that player in Philly, but as time goes on, attitudes get stale. Combined with the expiring contracts of both their QBs, they were forced to make a decision to “re-energize” the franchise. With a core of young talent and 11 picks in this draft, they can ride this youth movement for a while.

I think one of the other appeals of draft picks is in their use of valuation. Is Brandon Marshall worth Santana Moss? Is Santonio Holmes worth Braylon Edwards? It’s easier to gauge against a benchmark, like a currency, of draft picks. The ‘currency’ valuation may change per year, depending on the draft talent, but every team has the same limited number of picks to start with (which makes it better than actually currency, which some teams seem to have endless supplies of).

by SSBlitz on Apr 14, 2010 11:53 AM EDT reply actions  

The Redskins side of it.

Chris Cooley is a leader and hard worker in our locker room. Players like HB Blades, Rocky McIntosh, and Chris Horton might not be as vocal, but they set examples for new players with their work ethic. All three of those players have great technique and intensity, and I’ve never heard any of them question the players or coaches. Basically, the type of players you want on your team.

I really like LaRon on the team for the intensity and intimidation he brings to the defense. Offensive players should be coming to FedEx field with a bit of fear in the back of their minds. The same fear that makes Terry Glenn pull up short on a route when Sean Taylor is hovering in front of him. Or that Wilson would have every time Landry approaches the line after this hit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R211e6JdVew.

by SSBlitz on Apr 14, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Meaning.

Don’t trade any of them. Move LaRon to SS.

by SSBlitz on Apr 14, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Landry

Didn’t intimidate anybody this season. In, many cases last season he had a chance to lay a hit on a RB, and chose instead to dive on the ground at the RB’s ankles in hopes that he would fall down. That’s not really intimidating play if you ask me. I’ve become less and less attached to Landry the more I’ve seen of him. He avoids contact moreso than he creates it. Show me one highlight hit Landry had last season as a Redskin, please.

by Kurtstack on Apr 14, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Playing deep zone coverage in a bend-don't-break defense

As a FS, with little QB pressure, plays completely against LaRon’s strengths.

He needs to be at SS in an attack defense, like Doug Plank of the Chicago Bears (who the 46 defense was named after).

by SSBlitz on Apr 14, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Eagle's have 11 picks

They can basically package any combination of those 11 picks together to trade up to get whichever player they feel fits best for their team. It gives them leverage to trade up in the draft. The Redskins, with 3 or 4 picks in this years draft, have very little leverage to go after a guy they are targeting if he falls. That’s the difference. The flexibility of being able to go after a guy when you see a situation you like in the draft is huge!

by Kurtstack on Apr 14, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like using a currency.

by SSBlitz on Apr 14, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

We have mortgaged the farm to death the last decade

Why are we continuing to do so now? It’s just the first year of the new regime. Why all this pressure to win NOW? Most of us assumed it would be a clear turnaround with an eye to the future. This is doing the same damn stuff with better coaching. Don’t see the vision thing here?

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Apr 15, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

excellent post, agree (mostly)

Marshal and Holmes were traded for the same reasons, they are time bombs about to explode. The aquiring teams are betting that they can get a ring before that happens.

The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button

by Skins Fan '77 on Apr 14, 2010 11:59 AM EDT reply actions  

Yes, nice post Tiller

and Skins Fan nailed it on the Brandon/Santonio thing.

I am starting to get very concerned that attitude and professionalism are not high on the list of ShannyCo’s player attribute requirements…..just sayin….

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Apr 15, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

And that might be part of who he is

Shanny never seemed to put a focus on character, I’m not bashing that, just sometimes that’s how an organization is run. Wins means success, which keeps people happy. When you start losing then character issues start to arrive, look at this off season for the Steelers.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Apr 15, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

The football player to race horse analogy.

The race horse to football player analogy, which was the main content of the post, is not a good one. The horses in question are started as 2 year olds and they are running the triple crown as 3 year olds. These horses are hardly mature at these ages.
A horse at 5 years is closer to a college football player that has finished his growth. The age of race horses in the northern hemisphere are counted as 2, 3, etc. as of January 1. If per chance they are foaled a day earlier they are counted as 1 year old right out of the womb. The natural breeding season begins more like May, but breeders expose mares to artificial light to get them cycling earlier so that foals are born as early as possible.

On the other hand, I agree with the risks of draftees versus proven football players since it is not so much an apples versus oranges analogy. There is a good article at Football Outsiders that sheds some light on this topic, “Walkthrough: Made, not Born” – http://www.footballoutsiders.com/print/14464.

by Jefferson1935 on Apr 14, 2010 12:25 PM EDT reply actions  

That some deep horse info

I thought it was a good analogy and then i just found out I’m pretty much retarded in terms of horse knowledge. learn something every day I guess

by DoWork on Apr 14, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

why do teams trade proven players for the unknown?

Because there are things that go on mostly unseen by the public among teams. Production on the field isn’t everything, which I think you seem to at least be implying. (Though I found it funny when I saw it, do you really want a grown man who childishly punts footballs during practice on your team? I’m not sure I do.) The Broncos and Steelers felt that the off-the-field issues finally outweighed the on-field benefits of having those players on their rosters. Astute teams (like the Steelers) know when to cut their losses, get something out of their investment that they can use wisely, and start anew.

The Holmes trade is a bit of a head scratcher for only a 5th round pick, but the Steelers’ front office has proven to be one of the league’s best in recent years, so I’d trust in their estimations of their players rather than the contrary views of the public.

by tckols on Apr 14, 2010 1:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Laron and Carlos

Productive?

Those two for a plethora of picks would be ideal.

by Elaw6 on Apr 14, 2010 3:16 PM EDT reply actions  

"Productive"

Hell, you can find undrafted free agents who are “productive”. Laron had a terrible season last year. I have a hard time even saying it was “productive”.

by Kurtstack on Apr 14, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Plethora? never gonna happen

"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Apr 14, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Redskins policy

Over the past 10-15 years has been to release or trade true Redskins, guys who started with the Redskins and are coming up for contract extensions. All of the highest paid players on this team came from other organizations. It sends the wrong message to the team if you ask me. Each new guy who enters the Redskin’s for the first time typically does so with an enormous paycheck, even though he’s never produced a single stat for the Washington Redskins. In most cases the stats that they do end up posting for the Redkskins do not justify the huge contract they sign. This cycle continues over and over and over again, and I think we’ll see the same with McNabb.

by Kurtstack on Apr 14, 2010 3:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Why trade players in their prime?

It’s a buy low and sell high thing. The Eagles want to move McNabb while they can still get something for him. McNabb is basically a case where the Eagles wanted to get top dollar for McNabb. They traded him for a 2nd round pick this year, which is a valuable pick in the draft. They wouldn’t have been able to get anything better than what the Redskins gave them for McNabb. In addition, he only has one year left on his contract. If they signed him to a contract extension, then they would be stuck with paying McNabb top dollar even if his stats declined significantly over the coming seasons, in which case they would be stuck with a declining QB with declining value. Therefore, they made a value play and traded him while they could still get value for him in return. Buy low sell high. It works in the stock market and in the NFL. Now with the 2nd round pick, perhaps they can buy low (2nd round) and sell high again with another player. That’s how you increase the overall intrinsic value of a franchise.

by Kurtstack on Apr 14, 2010 3:38 PM EDT reply actions  

The draft is a risk, but it's also the best way to get talent.

I agree with the ‘idea’ of this article, that the draft is a bit of a crap shoot, but you’ll still get better people in the draft than undrafted on avg. I’d be willing to bet that there’s at least a general trend (disregarding QBs as I’m in ENTIRE agreement that drafting them would be a crap shoot) that the higher the overall pick, the more likely someone is to have a career as an NFL starter.

That said, the lower round picks we would get for young players who’ve contributed to our team, but are overall lesser known (Horton, Rocky, Thomas), would not likely be worth it at all.

by KenPat on Apr 14, 2010 4:27 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't really consider 2nd round to be a 'lower round'
Rocky, Thomas

"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Apr 14, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Talking about picks we'd get for them in return for a trade...

and I don’t think we’d get 2nd round picks for either of them right now. I’m not saying they aren’t worth that, but it’s just not what we’ve seen happen in the league.

I suppose the bigger reason it’s more rare to see a trade for a younger guy for a draft picks is mostly because these picks have palatable contracts and can contribute, so the teams holding them are getting more than their money’s worth out of them.

Regardless, I wouldn’t agree with trading any of the 3 mentioned, so I suppose it’s harder for me to argue that angle! :)

by KenPat on Apr 14, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not Cooley.

He really wants to be here. He is good. And I love him. And Fred Davis, too (I now live in Los Angeles).
On that note, Let Chris Horton go! We don’t need a bruin!
(kidding about Horton)

by brettpedigo on Apr 14, 2010 4:50 PM EDT reply actions  

One thing that should be noted

I totally agree, unless you are at great depth in one positions. If you have 2-3 great receivers, but struggle defensively, trade one and get some picks to help out where you need it. Other then that I don’t see much need to trade players in their prime.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Apr 15, 2010 12:48 AM EDT reply actions  

Great point maxwell

Would you consider our TE situation to be one of those areas where we could afford to part with a player?

by Tiller56 on Apr 15, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Think so

We have 3 quality TE, letting one go wouldn’t be the worse thing that could happen.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Apr 15, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

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