Before the Draft....
by Rabid on Mar 8, 2010 5:35 PM EST
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PrintA lot of people are talking about who we should take at #4 and what positions to go after in the later rounds. So far in Free Agency, we have reigned in the free-wheeling free-spending days of old, even in an UNCAPPED year, which is simply astounding to me. (Considering how often we have done cap gymnastics under Snyderrato, it really speaks volumes to me of how much Snyder is willing to change to build a great, enduring franchise.)
While we aren't looking for more Bruce Smith, Primetime, or Archuleta-esque signings, this year's Free Agency really is the time snag a few weak starters/solid backups. (We only had weak backups for the OL last year, which is an indictment of the last few years' FA season.) With so much competition at so many spots, along with an uncapped year and an intelligent front office, we couldn't ask for a better rebuilding year. Now, I'm not saying this is a 7-9 season coming up, but this is the type of situation that is ideal to lay the foundation for the next decade.
My ideal situation is to focus on a couple of positions for the remainder of FA leading up to the draft. Then, stock up on the highest-quality undrafted rookies after the draft. We can look at tons of young stock that can be decent this year, but excel with experience. The Shanahans and Haslett can handpick the guys who are not only a "should fit" player, but also shows promise in the schemes at the rookie camp after the draft, as opposed to signing a FA without seeing them practice in the schemes specific to the Redskins and commiting starter-type money to them for 3+ years.
So, I have a poll for you guys. In each of your humble opinions, which positions should be the major focus for the remainder of Free Agency?
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Not much to see here, based on the poll so far.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Solid Lines are the most definite way to set up a decade
yeah you might hit on a great QB and that will do it too, but so much of QB drafting is guesswork, Tom Brady 6th Rd, Ryan Leaf 2nd overall (and very nearly 1st with many ppl saying at the time the Colts had made a mistake taking Manning)
So rather than getting into the lottery of shooting of a superstar QB, keep the solid though unspectacular one we ahve and draft for O-Line quality and depth, there are comparitavely much fewer O-Line top 10 busts than QBs or skill players, so invest your high picks on O-lIne talent, we already have a top notch D-Line with B-Rak, Big Al, Jarmon and Carter all elite or potentiall elite talent
Then just go out and dominate the line of scrimmage, make sure JC doesnt turn the ball over and occasinally hits recievers deep, and there is a potential decade of winning football in DC,
thats my view anyway, I just look at the Superbowls from the last few years and all the teams in them had dominating linemen on at least one side of the ball, Giants D-Line, the Pats Oline that year (until the superbowl) I mean everyone went on about Randy MOss and Welker, but Brady was walking off the field some games with not a grass stain on him
Dockett for ’Zona last year and great protection for Warner in the playoffs and the Pittsburgh D-Line, (although not so much their O-Line admittedly)
And this year for all the high powered talk of the two teams, the Saints and Colts each had top 5 offensive lines.
We must go the safe conservative route and draft/ keep or sign not 5, but in case of injury 7 real top quality O-Linemen
Pommylee
agree
Every year we should use atleast one of our first 3 picks on O or D-line. Not to quibble Pommy but now that we went to the 3-4 we no longer have a good D-line.
by BayAreaBullet on Mar 8, 2010 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
What?
Haynesworth, Carter, Daniels not good enough for you? And if you say that we should move Carter to 3-4 OLB, I give you exhibit A, Aaron Kampman. Terrible in 3-4, great in 4-3.
?!?
D-linemen we have now that we are a 3-4. AH, Daniels and probably Golston. Jarmon, L. Alexander, Carter and Rak are all OLB’s now. That contains 3 of the 4 people he used to say we had a great D-line. If we had a 4-3 I’m with you but since we are a 3-4 now we have a pretty mediocre D-line.
by BayAreaBullet on Mar 8, 2010 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
I (and its probably only me that does this)
but I include OLB’s in the 3-4 as D-Linemen cos for all intents and purposes they are really, as they rarely retreat into coverage, but instead attack the line of scrimmage or try and cross it,
plus our front 3 is pretty sweet anyway
Jarmon, Haynesworth (who I hope plays on an edge) and Daniels, not too shabby
Pommylee
I agree, but Jarmon could become a DE in the 3-4. He was seeing some time as a tackle last year before he got hurt I believe.
Jarmon is reportedly losing as much weight as possible to move to OLB
Which is especially weird considering he is coming off an ACL tear and won’t have all his quickness this year.
by BayAreaBullet on Mar 9, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Oh damn, last year they were talking about how he could fit the mold of Phillip Daniels.
We’re going to be having alot of players playing out of position this year it seems like.
yeah I mean who knows what defense we will run but for a guy like Jarmon he either has to lose weight or gain some
so if he struggles at OLB he won’t have the mass to move to a 3-4 DE this year. I honestly thought him and L. Alexander would be 2 of the players that would make the switch easiest becuase they would make good 3-4 DE’s but apparently they are OLB’s now. I’m even kinda worried about Orakpo.
by BayAreaBullet on Mar 9, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
Yea, I am also concerned about the new defense.
I have doubts about Haslett to begin with, and switching players around sounds like trouble to me. Overall I think the 3-4 or hybrid is the way to go long-term, but I think this will be a painful process requiring multiple personnel changes. Many of the current players were selected with only a standard 4-3 in mind. In the next 2-3 years, I believe they will need 6-7 new defensive starters.
It may not be all that painful... Most linebackers love the 3-4...
" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "
Carter is not a DE in the 3-4. He’s too small, but don’t tell him I said that. Haynesworth and Daniels would be DE’s in the 3-4, but we have no one that is a true NT in the 3-4 so I’m not sure we’ll do.
Your argument for Aaron Kampman works well for the reason Carter will be an afterthought this season if we truly go to a 3-4. He works well in the 4-3 as a pass rushing DE, but not at either position OLB or DE in the 3-4.
As much as I agree with what you’re saying, you made the case for dominant lines as well as dominant QB’s. Look at the quarterbacks that you mentioned… Take this past years playoffs, look at the teams and the quarterbacks that were in it.
But dominant lines help make dominant quarterbacks.
chicken and the egg my friend chicken and the egg
I would say though that I do not classify
Eli as elite
nor do I really see
Big Ben as elite, he is good, but he is not top 5 in my opinion, probably bottom half of the Top Ten
Warner, again bottom half of top ten
Grossman, terrible
but still your point is valid, more than valid,
the does the QB make the line or the Line make the QB argument is one of them things with no right or wrong answer, it truly is a matter of opinion……in my opinion :)
Pommylee
I like Warner more than you
I consider him elite. A QB can make his team better, but not really his OLine. An OLine makes the team and the QB better. Tie breaker in favor of OLine first.
Also check out what one of the Polians said after the SB. They criticized their line play (which PO’d Ilja) as the limiting factor in not winning the SB.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Well to be fair, Polian doesn't have the courage to criticize Manning.
Manning’s interception was the game changer, and that was all Peyton. Can’t blame the line there. Polian should also be criticizing himself as he is the one who built the team. $h!t always runs downhill, and Polian made sure himself and Manning stayed clean and smelled good. I don’t blame the guy for being upset.
Finger pointing is never a good thing
even when you own the bigger finger.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
not just Polian either
it seems to me that none of the NFL Journos and columists ahve the guts to criticise Manning either, the dude gets a free pass on a lot of stuff
I mean his playoff record is just beyond awful 10-10 I think, that just not good enough for someone who ppl say is possibly the best ever.
Pommylee
Do you mean
if Manning was working for you and was your highest paid employee you would:
- Take away his employee of the month parking spot?
- Tie him to a grate and give him 20 lashes with the cat ’o nine tails?
- Put a large poster in the locker room of Manning getting pounded while the interceptor waltzes by on the way to the end zone?
All I can say is that the Colts did not look unstoppable for most of the game and don’t know who to “blame.” It is probably unfortunate that anything was said at all. I’ve always thought you win as a team and you lose as a team.
Just like Brett
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Polian should have shut his mouth and said nothing.
And Manning should have at least countered the comment.
Even if the statement was true, it was wrong to publicly say it. Manning already called out his line 3 years ago after a playoff defeat.
Their team didn’t lose a game all year, that they tried to win, and with their only real loss to point fingers was poor judgement. Manning did not have a great game again in a big spot, and Polian felt the need to defend him and deflect criticism. Manning is an All-time great, but any discussions of him as the best ever is inaccurate.
i choose option 2
That seems the most rewarding.
The real way I would punish him, would be to blame him for something, I mean (and I know I have banged on about this before) but every time a pass is incomplete or a play breaks down for the Colts, Manning always has someong to point a finger at and blame, for wrong route or whatever, but IT CAN NOT ALWAYS BE SOMEONE ELSES FAULT, I would just like to see him once say “yeah it was fault, and its mistakes like that that understandlbly give ppl the right to question my ability” or even just the first part of that sentence
Pommylee
3-4
Are we definitely going to a 3-4? I heard it would be a hybrid, use a 3-4 situationally. I hope. A 3-4 leaves us with a lot of holes.
I heard the same....
hybrid 3-4; 4-3 defense with a lot of looks. I think having athletic DE’s for a 4-3 will make us more stout and more versatile for situational 3-4. You can have Landry rotate in at LB on the fly……a hybrid would seem like the way to go….even if it will eventually be a straight 3-4. They will have to work with what we have….hybrid would be the best bet….until the roster gets squared up in a year or so!
The Hybrid is basically saying we are not going to have a true 3-4 NT to play the 1 tech.
It will be a hybrid in the sense that me may shift or DL personall between the 3 and 5 tech, but the base should remain in the 3-4 look. Look at it this way, our DE’s/OLB’s should be playing with their hands off the ground.
"A 3-4 leaves us with a lot of holes"
my thoughts exactly. The FO is being coy about the defense but when you are pursuing a LB(Foote) who has stated he wanted to go to a 3-4 team cuz he doesn’t fit well in a 4-3; Telling a guy who played DE/DT last year to lose a ton of weight and play OLB; and telling a DT(L. Alexander) he is now an OLB it is pretty telling that we will have a base 3-4 next year.
People get too wrapped up in the 3-4/4-3 debate.
Look at Baltimore. What do they run? A 3-4/4-6 hybrid. Much like Allen and Shanahan have said they will run. 4-6 means 4 down linemen, like you would see in a 4-3. Shanahan is not going to be restarting this defense or giving players roles they shouldn’t have.
" Shanahan is not going to be restarting this defense or giving players roles they shouldn’t have"
Really? So you’ve always pictured L. Alexander as an OLB?
What do you guys think about
moving Landry to OLB
by mr.snyderhireme on Mar 8, 2010 11:45 PM EST reply actions
Landry can hopefully go back
and play more SS. He can function in a role closer to a linebacker, can blitz and help run stop, but ultimately he’s too small to play linebacker and it’d be a waste of his skill set
well I look to the draft to get the OL addressed
so I picked LB in the poll, figuring decent talent could be had at a reasonable price, saving our picks for a much needed injection of youth for our OL woes.
I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....
Piratedan, I did the same.
Maybe 1 more veteran OT in FA, then we should look to the draft. It prob makes the most sense at this time to re-sign Levi, and move forward to April 22nd.
Levi Jones as a right tackle.
His lateral movement to the left is not good enough for him to play left tackle. He was adequate at left tackle in 2007, but he never was Chris Samuel’s quality. Barry Sims could handle the left tackle assignment for pass protection blocking but his run blocking leaves something to be desired. Coupled with Dockery there would not be much of a run game to the left.
by Jefferson1935 on Mar 9, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
Prob will be Grossman.
If he is signed sometime soon, it gives is a viable back-up to JC, or a possible starter if we draft a rookie(although that last scenerio scares the hell out of me). The grossman signing, if it happens, could provide the Shanny’s insurance if Campbell is lost or traded.
??
Did you just flip on us, Tiller? I thought you were supporting Bradford at #4?? Or are you saying you are against them drafting someone other than Bradford and especially in a later round this year?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
I can't wait to talk to you guys in 2 years, when "Slinging Sammy" Bradford makes his first probowl.
you both owe me beers.
You have to have a shoulder to sling...
I know he has better Docs than I do in the army but I have had the same injury that he has but i’ve done it to both shoulders, one of them twice. You never are the same afterwards. Mine sometimes pops out just from closing a door behind me… It sucks…
" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "
appreciate your sacrifice milc
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
LOL... I havent sacrificed anything... Thanks though..
I have a very dependable paycheck. Free insurance, The GOV pays me more than I use for houseing in DC that is expencive, and chips in $280 a month for food expences.
So I deployed 3 times to the desert and used baby wipes as a shower for 6 months of one of them. The Army isnt that bad. Its deff a career. I retire in 10 years at 38 yrs old. I can retire from a second career by 60 and have two retirement paychecks a month.
It balenced out cause the bad guys let me shoot at them when they pissed me off… The world would be a lot more simple if I were allowed to shoot at every person that angers me…
" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "
Look out LJP :)
quick question about your service Milky
I was reading this article about The Hurt Locker, and these Soldiers were saying how much it pisses them off when Hollywood always makes the hero solider, the one who breaks the rules and doesnt follow procedure. THese soldiers were saying that if their Seargent or leader in the field did that, they would hate him as he would pretty much always get them killed, or put them in unnecesary danger
As a soldier yourself, do you agree with this view
Pommylee
Pomm, Why should I look out? I know what a front lean and rest position is as well. How about a side straddle hop? I spent some time in a sandy environment myself. But hey, so what that was then, this is now. LOL
by LETJASONPASS on Mar 10, 2010 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
First its the Front leanING rest position
the beach does not count…
" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "
A couple of things about that movie
1) EOD guys are already nutz for doing that job.
2) No one rolls around over there by themselves. The whole movie they were by themselves in a hummer… An actual EOD team is 4 vehicles minimum 5 people per truck so 20 personel minimum.
In the one scene that I think you are refuring to where its the car bomb that catches on fire and he puts it out then they are bugging out cause he cuts comms so he can focus. That is his job. Thats what EOD does… it was a big bomb that would have created alot of collateral damage . It is their job defuse it.
The movie as a whole was bogus.. totally hollywood… We are alot more safe than what they portrayed…
" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "
We did settle things out
quite amicably yesterday, right? :) I suspect a significant depopulation problem if your last sentence comes to fruition.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
I would gladly pony up a round for that eventuality
and reward you for your stretch bet. I however, don’t see the need to gamble this year.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
I still support Bradfors at #4, IF, and only IF the staff feels we need an upgrade at QB.
The Grossman comment was ment to provide insurance to either JC or to a Rookie. I would not advocate Grossman as a starter(at least not for the entire season, maybe for a period of time until the rook was ready)
Not sure what they are waiting for.
Grossman is available, and there are plenty of teams that need a back-up. Unless they are waiting for someone like Derek Anderson to get cut, there aren’t too many experienced guys left.
The poll and the comments
“what position should we focus on in Free Agency leading up to the #4 pick in April?” The responses don’t seem to connect very well with the question asked and the personnel that is available on the free agent market. If the idea is to improve with the best players available (BPA), then efforts would be most productive to concentrate on CB, FS, LB, and DL. By using that approach, the limited draft picks could be more focused on positions of greater need, obviously OL and less so RB. QB in the draft is THE QUANDRY ISSUE. Jason Campbell can do better with better players around him, but does he get them team deep into the playoffs? There is the unknown in regard to what players will become available at what positions prior to the draft and this can not be controlled except where there is a direct approach to trade with other teams that have the “qualities”/positions/players sought with the limited number of players that other teams may want. Trading draft picks after 2010 is more the more desperate approach, but a lot of teams are doing it now.
I see what you are saying, Jefferson
but in my mind, OLine cannot be solved in this draft, even though we will likely make a good effort to do so. Therefore, the highest need in FA is still some OLinemen who will cement the line and eventually, due to age and the improvement of the draftees, move over to become backups or retire.
Yes, I still want them to address LB, FS and CB, but that is not the highest need until we get a couple of FA linemen IMO.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Well Scott that why I inserted the qualifier.
“There is the unknown in regard to what players will become available at what positions prior to the draft and this can not be controlled except where there is a direct approach to trade with other teams that have the "qualities"/positions/players sought with the limited number of players that other teams may want.” It means that some one like Chris Cooley or Fred Davis as well as one of the strong safeties needs to be traded. The terms and the deals can be controlled if you are calling the shots!
by Jefferson1935 on Mar 9, 2010 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
I believe, and I think the brass does to, that most teams will wait....
until after the draft, but prior to June 1, to release more players. Teams can wait and see what they get in the draft, and then decide what additional players are expendable. June 1 is a cut-off date for bonuses and cap allotment next year.
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