How much does Mike Shanahan like Sam Bradford?
by SSBlitz on Mar 23, 2010 3:11 PM EDT
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PrintHow much does Mike Shanahan like Sam Bradford? For him, it may be worth trading up to the first overall pick. This might not be as 'painful' as you think, considering the circumstances:
Jim Haslett obviously still has strong connections with the St. Louis organization having just worked there.
Now we've heard 'rumors' that the Redskins has been in trade talks with St. Louis regarding Adam Carriker, an obvious fit at 34DE (not 43DT).
Feeling out of place too, Andre Carter would be an obvious upgrade to the St. Louis offensive line now that Chris Long has been playing more DT (Little's on the other end).
I'm not sure he's "disgruntled", but All-Pro Free Safety OJ Atogwe has been tendered at the lowest possible tender. The "right to first refusal" tender means no compensatory pick are required. An intelligent, center-fielder ballhawk would be a welcomed addition to our secondary (Make it pretty perfect, IMO). I'm not sure how they can work his rights into a trade, but I'm sure there are lawyers out there who can.
The Rams are pretty much QB-less. Needless to say, they'd like to change that before the season starts. A matured and experienced signal caller may be a better fit that a wet-eared rookie. We have Jason Campbell, who would appreciate a team that has a star running back and recent additions to bolster their offensive line. There were rumors that St. Louis was looking at Donovan McNabb earlier this off-season. Obvious ethnic similarities aside, I think Jason and Donovan have very similar skill-sets.
Also from the rumor mill; Alex Barron was benched last year and is said to be on the trading block. He has all the physical tools at 6'7 300lbs, maybe he just needs a change of scenery? Last time I checked, our offensive line still needed a tackle (or two. or three).
Now it's possible that this is all speculation and no trade will occur, but that's a lot of available trade-material to work with. So the question remains:
How much does Mike Shanahan like Sam Bradford?
Looking for a late-round prospect to get hyped about? Micah Johnson, 6'2, 255lbs ILB from Kentucky would make a great depth addition to a newly schemed offense. Obviously you'll be able to find some negatives on him, but who wants those? Bring on the youtube highlight clips! and a good scouting report. He projects to go around 6th round.
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Hmm on a scale from 1-10 10 being the highest
I’d say they’ll take a look at him…
(I like this not tipping our hand thing as opposed to flying redskins 1 to drop off Campbell and Carter for interviews in STL while hopping over to watch Bradford’s Pro day)
You may have something here
It’s awful strange to think that two of the worst teams in football last year could trade 4-5 players and that both of them could get significantly better, but strange things have happened.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
That is the big question heading into the draft?
Does Shanahan truly covet Bradford, and enought to trade-up for him? The other big question would then be does St. Louis really want him? Or are they employing a subterfuge tactic in order to gain more leverage in negotiating a deal? St. Louis is a complete mess, and parlaying that pick into multiple players would seem to be their best course of action.
Shanahan’s best response might be to just “Check”, and let the hand play itself out. There are now no other teams realistically in the Bradford bidding, as the top contenders already made their QB moves. Bradford could still fall into his lap at 4, or St. Louis may offer a more palatable deal when they are on the clock and under pressure.
Then again, Shanahan may not want Bradford at all. Go figure.
So you're saying
we make an NBA-type multi-player/draft pick trade? I have no interest in trading UP, but I have to admit this kind of intrigues me. The water cooler effect alone would be pretty cool. So let me put your “suggestions” together, with one addition.
We give them Campbell, the #4 pick, Carter, and Laron Landry. Then we get the #1, Carriker, Barron and Atogwe. OK, if we have to throw in Heyer I could live with that. Any chance they’d thrown in their 2nd (or even 3rd) for Rogers?
How about
We give them:
Jason Campbell
Andre Carter
Santana Moss
First Round Pick
They give us:
Alex Barron
Adam Carriker
OJ Atogwe
First Round Pick
so YOU'RE saying
we can’t give them Landry? Damnit.
Actually, I wouldn’t mind this, but I don’t see them taking Moss. 30 year old receivers aren’t conducive to teams in rebuilding mode. I really think we should give New England a call to see if they’re interested in Moss. They need a replacement for Welker, and they seem to have developed a penchant for acquiring 30+ year old players.
NE also has about 4 thousand draft picks to deal with
But I think they already picked up someone to replace Welker – just can’t remember who.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Yeah
I believe they had another little white guy running the Welker routes last year. But I wouldn’t doubt for a minute that they’d be intrigued on pairing S. Moss with R. Moss. They know their window is closing, so Moss would be a decent pickup for them.
I think Landry will be fine with a steady, true FS who is also a veteran.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
you're assuming
that we will acquire one. We have 3 safeties on our roster with stars under their belt at free safety. I just don’t see them signing another one, unless they move one of the guys we have.
Its not uncommon to move corners to play free
Barnes is big (tall), smart, fast enough, and a punishing hitter. I say we give him a run at free. Fuck it, what could it hurt? He can’t be worse than Landry back there.
Yes, I was assuming Atogwe per the post.
We’d have to trade one of our other guys in hopes of getting an ILB or another OLineman.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Very intriguing
If we are going to lose JC, then this is the way to do it. We fill a lot of holes and can be fundamentally better IF Bradford is the guy.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Hey SSBlitz, I know you are not impressed with PFF, but
if you look at the stats for Alex Barron, he is ranked immediately above Heyer – http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=T&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1. It is true that he was at the LT position and vulnerable. Barron did not do a better job of protecting the QB and was heavily penalized. He might be a better RT fit, but do the Skins need him? The Skins could use the FS and maybe Carriker would not be a bust as a 3-4 DE.
by Jefferson1935 on Mar 23, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
If a trade is indeed being bandied about,
then a Carriker for Carter and Campbell+#4 for the Ram#1 would be a good starting point. The Skins would still need to add another player to this mix for a deal.
Barron could be a strong possibility as they have high-priced Jason Smith sitting on the bench waiting. They need secondary help so Rogers or Landry would need to be mentioned.
I can definately see these 2 teams getting a deal done as both need roster renovation.
I am still of the belief that the Rams are in financial turmoil, and would love to get out of the top pick.
Wishful thinking.....maybe they would bite.....probably not......couldn't hurt to ask.
And say pretty please with a strawberry on top and whipped cream.
Yes, The Stare.....bound to intimidate even the stoutest of men.
by johnnydee83 on Mar 23, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Our team became disciplined
the moment he signed his contract. No, the moment he looked at his contract.
Everyone forgot step 1
Give them Vinny to be their new GM. We could get half their roster and most of their draft picks before Vinny figured out the math.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
And then Vinny would swear to the people of St. Louis
that he got an excellent value for Stephon Heyer and Colt Brennan.
Make it happen you two
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
Daniel Snyder should use his investment vehicle
to buy the Rams, then hire Vinny as the VP of Football Operations.
In a Nuts Hell!! Yeah!!
Just think. On game days the traffic going into the newly revamped parking venue at St. Louis would back up all the way to W. Va., where the parking back up from Fedex Field starts to subside.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Campbell and trade
Isn’t JC roughly comparable to a first round pick? STL would basically be getting an experienced QB, cheap, instead of a rookie, very expensive, for their first round pick. Assuming they’d want more, I’d try to throw in a player or two rather than our #4 pick to even things out. Whatever the details, it seems to be worth a lot to have the 1st and 4th picks – get both Bradford and Okung, lose only one or two defensive players (where we’re in pretty good shape). Or is all that wishful thinking? I really like the concept of a trade which allows us to get both Bradford and Okung.
Hey
Campbell is tendered for a 1st
Carter for Carriker
Throw in a couple of others, and bam it happens, they got what they need without the expense of a Top-5 pick
Rumors rumors rumors
I dunno… I dont really think that that would happen… I dont like rumors. Cant trust em..
" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "
This isn't a rumor
This is someone piecing together rumors to make a stabbing guess.
Not that stabbing guesses are always wrong… sometime they get right to the “heart” of things (cue laughter by respectable Englishmen who love a good turn of phrase).
Yeah, yeah, yeah
Just need to get the draft here but it’s still 4 weeks away….Time to quickly move forward and get moving on the season
Talk about rolling the dice...
I don’t know if Shanahan is willig to gamble that high. There’s too much of the embarrasment factor to consider if Bradford doesn’t pan out. I will say this, if you’re going to roll the dice, take the safe bet. Meaning, if Bradford is who he really wants, pray that he’s available at 4 and don’t “force” it. You know?
But if you legit think he's the right guy
Now is the time to get him. Moving from 4 up to 1 is easy compared to next year when we’ll have to move from 32. wink
Rolling the Dice
I wonder if they can find out if STL is going to take Bradford? Other than that, I doubt that Shanahan is worried about being embarrassed. I would guess that he just wants to win, so is really trying to figure out which QB is likely to be the best QB over, say, a 2 – 5 yr period. If he was like me, and I thought it was Bradford, I’d move heaven and earth to get him. But one thought keeps butting in: it’s not an exact science, there are a lot of uncertainties, nobody can really know how good Bradford (or even JC or Clausen or Rex) are or will be. To use that #4 pick – he’s going to have to really want the guy. So you (and most others on HH) are dead right – Okung is the safer choice, in a number of ways, although even he is not a “lock”. Maybe the safest path is to trade down and grab a number of O-linemen and one promising QB. But I personally would just make the best estimate I could of Bradford’s talent, and if he appeared substantially more promising than JC, I’d pull the trigger, screw the risk or embarrassment.
How about
Trading JC, and Carter plus our 2nd rounder and a 2nd or 3rd in the 2011 draft, for Carriker and the Rams 1st.
This gives us two 1st’s this year. We select Bradford and Okung, and still have our 4th, 5th and 7th this year to draft a RB, OG/C, and LB.
The Rams get their QB, plus a DE to play opposite Little. They also have 2 early 2nd rd picks to help shore up their Defense, and maybe grab a WR like Demarius Thomas or Golden Tate.
I like it...
Other than the vast amount of picks we’re giving up. If we’re going to have a young QB, I think it would behoove us to have as many draft picks in our hand so that we can actually build a team around him. And I’m not convinced that Carriker is that valuable. That would make him, what, equal to Campbell + Carter? Just Campbell? I’m not into giving up a solid starting QB for a starting anything else. What about taking Carriker and Campbell out of the equation? Gives us one more year with Campbell to allow Bradford to develop as we keep on working on the team.
Not sure we should be in such a hurry to dump Campbell
Though if we could get Bradford and Okung………..
by BayAreaBullet on Mar 24, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Even then
I wouldn’t mind keeping Campbell around while we develop the new guy. At best/worst, Campbell has a crappy year and we wave goodbye to him as we pick high in the draft again. At worst/best, Campbell has a great year and we have a QB controversy on our hands this time next year.
Plus it is tough to quantify
but I don’t know if starting from day 1 is an advantage for any young QB. Plus we don’t learn much about other people on the offense while that guy struggles. Just like the O-line problems have hindered our ability to see what JC can be having a rookie QB struggles will limit our ability to judge guys like DT and MK. Plus Bradford has like a what? 50% chance historically of turning into a decent QB? Not sure if I wanna bet the next 4 years on that chance.
by BayAreaBullet on Mar 24, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
And that's my point Bay.
One element that constantly keeps you in contention is a solid Offensive Line. You truly would be roloing the dice on a two-time injured Bradford behind the worse line in the NFL. Building from the core is the smart move, despite what the pundits think. You can name the last ten Super Bowl winners, and they all have one thing in common: A solid O-line.
Trade
If you’re talking about Tiller’s idea, I think he (and I) consider the Rams’ #1 as being Bradford, so it comes out trading JC and Carter and the three picks, for Bradford and Carriker (and we still use the #4 for Okung). Maybe we could give fewer picks, or another player instead of picks, to even things out.
True...
I guess they wouldn’t go for the trade without getting a QB out of it.
I think they would rather take McNabb for a second rounder
and draft/develop a QB for the future in rounds 2-4. Atleast that is what I would do.
by BayAreaBullet on Mar 24, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Not I.
Getting McNabb just means paying a guy a lot of money to be a future hall-of-famer on a crappy team. It’d be like Brett Favre with the Jets, only they’d fall apart after game 2, instead of game 10.
Just for the record
we better draft okung first because if he’s taken at #2 then the trade is pointless
by Nobetterthenbob on Mar 25, 2010 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Why would the trade be pointless?
we can still select Trent Williams, Bryan Bulaga, or Andre Davis. They are all pretty good OT’s too, and could all wind up in the top 10 picks. Just because it’s not Okung doesn’t mean it’s not a good pick.
Because Bradford will be available at #4
Okung has a chance of being taken at #2. Barring a trade with the lions, Bradford isn’t being taken with the #2 or #3 pick. Plus I’d rather have okung before any of the guys you just mentioned.
by Nobetterthenbob on Mar 25, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
How about
Tiller – sounds great. Just what I’d try to do. Get em both, and without giving up anything crucial (I’d be sorry to lose Carter, but with the 3-4, I could live with it – but prefer to give up Landry). Everybody would seem to win.
If we wanted Atogwe we can just sign him
Not sure I would give them any value in a trade for the right to sign him when we could do that regardless.
So we would have to give them something to ensure they wouldn't do that?
I don’t see the incentive there. Sign him to what you think is fair and if they match then thats cool.
by BayAreaBullet on Mar 24, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I think they did it as a way for him to gauge the market
They intend to keep him, this is just their way of finding the market value to pay him. I’m not even sure it indicates they’d be willing to trade him. He’s really been the only solid player in their secondary.
He could be bought
but would the price be worth it. I personally like who we have at safety, and don’t feel the need to make any changes. We need to give LL a chance, even if it is at FS. I know he may be better suited as a strong, but he definitly has the skill set to play FS. He was a CB at LSU before being moved to S. He had very good hips, and his speed was in the 4.3’s coming out of college.
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