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The Guy No One is Talking about @ 4


With the third pick in the 2009 NFL draft the Kansas City Chiefs select Tyson Jackson, Defensive End, Louisiana State University

Star-divide

 

Last year the Chiefs surprised alot of people by reaching on a player that, in their opinion, was going to fit a very important role in their new defensive philosophy. A guy who was going to be able to play a position that 1) no one on their current team was suited to play and 2) that not all players listed at his position could play.

 

Here we find ourselves 11 months later with the Redskins in a very similar situation. New Coach trying to install a new defensive philosophy trying to figure out how he is going to force a square peg into a round hole. Sure they have a guy who might be able to fill the spot but he has already came out and said he wants nothing to do with it. The big difference... KC needed a DE and the skins need a NT (for those not famaliar with a 34 nt importance >>> de importance). You dont have to travel far up 95 to find out how important a strong NT is for a 34 defense to succeed. People were calling Ray lewis old, washed up... the Ravens bring in Haloti Ngata and he has been reborn ever since.

 

Albert Haynesworth is a monster. A defensive force that a 34 d-line needs to keep athletic LBers running free. With that being said, I dont think he is going to fit as your NT. I dont think he has the conditioning to be the rock that this team needs in the center of the line or (more importantly) the ego that will let him take a "let the other players shine" role like NT. It would be like asking Clinton Portis to move to fullback and start blocking for ladell betts.

 

Thats why I wouldnt be surprised if your guy at #4 and am so surprised that no one has mentioned him earlier. Without any further adu... With the 4th pick in the 2010 NFL draft the Washington Redskins select Dan Williams, Defensive Tackle, University of Tennessee.

 

Do I think there is a possibility their actual target is picking up Mt Cody in the 2nd round... sure, but thats one hell of a risk assuming he is going to drop that far. Then they are forced into 1) reaaaaally reaching on a player like Cam Thomas or 2) waiting til the 4th round where pickings are gonna be pretty slim.

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You're right, it would certainly be a surprise

but it isn’t going to happen. Not with legit LTs and other higher-rated players left on the board.

by CarverM on Mar 22, 2010 9:24 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree with each of those

except Bradford. I’d rather have Williams than Bradford.

by CarverM on Mar 22, 2010 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

well at this point I think you have to agree that the general consensus has bradford, suh, mccoy going 1,2,3 which leaves it up to Okung vs Williams (at least for the sake of this conversation).

Would I put money on it either way (if thats how it played out)?? Of course not but just something to get you guys thinking/talking.

VOID!!!

by dt3 on Mar 23, 2010 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Considering the round one options and OT needs:

Without additional free agent OL, the choice of Suh or G. McCoy are looking less likely – http://www.hogshaven.com/2010/3/17/1377000/could-should-the-redskins-select
DTs below round one:
OV.PR……Player……….Pos…School…….Ht…..Wt……Proj….40T….Benp…Vjump…20Yd..10Yd….Bjum..Shut.. Cone
46..7…….Tyson Alualu….DT….California…6-3…295……2……4.87….21….35 1/2…..2.82…1.67…09’08"..4.43..7.15
65..9……Lamarr Houston.DT…Texas……..6-3…305…..2-3…..4.84….30….33 1/2….2.80…1.68….09’06"..4.71..7.61
87..10…..Geno Atkins…..DT….Georgia…..6-2…293……3……4.75….34…..33……..2.64…1.68….09’09"..4.43..7.33
92..11…..Mike Neal……..DT….Purdue……6-3…294……3……4.87….31…..33……..2.72…1.60….09’05"..4.53..7.53
144.15….Jeff Owens……DT…Georgia……6-1…304…..4……4.97….44……30…….2.84…1.69….08’05"..4.68 ..—
170.17….Earl Mitchell…..DT…Arizona……6-2…296……5……4.75….25….28 1/2….2.69…1.56….08’11" ..4.55..7.68
UDFA:
This guy is fast and is built like a protype NT
421.33….Aleric Mullins..DT..North Carolina..6-1…321….FA….4.98 ….

by Jefferson1935 on Mar 22, 2010 10:33 PM EDT reply actions  

Where did you get this list and did you purposely try to single out the undersized DTs who have no experience in the 34??

as an eagles fan I love the idea of you guys moving to a 34 defense with a 290 lb NT trying to hold down the middle… I can tell you that Andre Gurode, the 6’4" 325 lb center from dallas would also love that matchup.

Even if Haynesworth (reluctantly) takes the starting position at NT you have to admit that getting a quality backup behind him is a high priority when he inevitably gets gassed. If you guys wait til the second third day (or try to shoehorn golston into the role) you guys are going to the definition of a Jekyll/Hyde defense.

VOID!!!

by dt3 on Mar 23, 2010 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

We have Kemoeatu

the guy is 345lbs, I think we’ll be fine.

by Nobetterthenbob on Mar 23, 2010 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

well… ummm…. yeah….. that kinda changes my tune. Completely missed him while looking over the roster.

Still think Williams is an interesting possibility but you can forget anything/everything I said about them having to draft a backup to Hayney if he does move into the NT spot

VOID!!!

by dt3 on Mar 23, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think we’ll still be drafting someone in the mold of a nose tackle in the later rounds, Kemoeatu is coming off an achilies tendon injury and still isn’t running from what I’ve heard.

Thanks for the post though.

by travisjh86 on Mar 23, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's still worth talking about

There are no guarantees that Kemoeatu will be the starter at NT. From what I’ve read, he has a long way to go with his achilles rehab.

Dan Williams would be a great asset for us, but he’s just not slotted for it to work out. The Redskins draft board ought to have 15-20 players above him. He simply can’t be taken 4th. In fact, defensive linemen are such a low priority for us at this point that it would be foolhardy to take him unless we somehow found ourselves with a mid-to-late 1st round pick and a picked-over crop of LT prospects.

by sofutomygaha on Mar 23, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure

we might draft another NT but not at the #4 spot when there are other holes and better talent on the board.

by Nobetterthenbob on Mar 24, 2010 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

The list is composed of DT that would be competitive

with Suh and G. McCoy in size, strength, and speed. Neither Suh or McCoy is that large. The Skins were looking into the possibility of a trade for Carriker and these guys would be potential 3-4 DE. The only exception was Mullins who would be acquired as a UDFA. Given the shortage of draft picks and the lack of free agent OL signings as well as other needs, a first round DL pick would not be the greatest. This list should be viewed as a take off of the “Could(Should) The Redskins Select NdamuKong Suh?” thread in which Suh was the focus of the Skins’ #4 pick. In other words, this list is the poor man’s substitution for Suh or G. McCoy.

Why did you mention Tyson Jackson, the apparent 1st round bust from the 2009 draft?

by Jefferson1935 on Mar 23, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why did you mention Tyson Jackson, the apparent 1st round bust from the 2009 draft?

as stated in the post… both teams are in very similar situations, new coaches trying to install a 34 defense.

Last year the chiefs had to reach for tyson jackson because they thought he was one of the few players available that could play 34 end (a completely different position than 43 end).

This year the skins could be in a position of not having anyone who would (willingly) play NT so also could be forced to use an early 1st round pick to a reach for a player that fits that need.

VOID!!!

by dt3 on Mar 23, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can see your point

but taking an NT with the #4 pick is going to be a big reach. I would guess you’re assuming they tried to trade down but had no offers. It could happen.

It would be a better decision that taking a FS or RB at #4.

by aFan4Life on Mar 23, 2010 8:27 AM EDT reply actions  

OL is still more important to me

We’ve got a NT who, before spending last year on IR, was extremely solid at his position. He might not return to form, but you take a huge risk paying a rookie #4 pick money when no one thinks he’s even worth the #4 pick. If we could trade down, he’d become an option. Otherwise, LT.

by kseandoyle on Mar 23, 2010 12:28 PM EDT reply actions  

A mistake that wont happen

When our needs on the offensive line are so great why would this pick even be considered? Okung would most definitely be higher on the skins draft board if he is still there so why would you select Dan Williams above him. Also how well did the Tyson Jackson reach work out for KC last season? That was a rhetorical question. Reaching on a player because of a need is how teams miss out on a great player.

by JeanBaptiste on Mar 23, 2010 12:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Also how well did the Tyson Jackson reach work out for KC last season?

who said that it did??

VOID!!!

by dt3 on Mar 23, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ummmmmm....

No I didnt. I said here is what team X did and why they did it, isnt that a similar situation to team Y. Feel free to copy/paste any part of the article that mentions the results of the pick in a reply.

VOID!!!

by dt3 on Mar 24, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

You suggested as much

You’re saying that the Skins should do what the Chiefs did last year. So either you think the Chiefs reached like a fox, or you want the Redskins to make bad decisions.

by kseandoyle on Mar 23, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

No you assumed as much

I never said they should do anything. What I think they will do and what I think they should do is two drastically different things. I simply pointed out that offensive line is not the only hole on this roster and there is a player that could fit that hole (that no one had mentioned).

I openly stated that the Chiefs reached on making the Jackson pick and believe it or not reaching to fit a need is not always a bad decision.

VOID!!!

by dt3 on Mar 24, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

this post doesn't make much sense

you’re highlighting a player that would be a ridiculous reach at #4 and citing the Chiefs reaching on a player at #3 that couldn’t hold Rak’s jockstrap, who btw was drafted 10 spots later at 13. If this was a warning not to reach for Dan Williams it might have made some sense. I’m beginning to believe it was just a random post about reaching with a little bit of a random reach from the chiefs last year sprinkled in. Thanks for the post Philly. I want 3 minutes of my life back from reading this.

by DoWork on Mar 25, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

A little harsh

His point makes sense. The Chiefs did reach for jackson but they were switching to the 3-4 and they wanted to revamp the D-line. Jackson did help immediately but neither did mario williams when he was drafted at #1. I think Jackson will be grow into a decent starter but a rookies first year doesn’t always show what he’s going to do in later years.

The other problem with the post is that dt3 overlooked Kemoeatu when he made this post so I think his point might have been different. None-the-less, we could use another NT. The #4 spot and williams is not where it needs to be addressed though.

by Nobetterthenbob on Mar 25, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I was baffled when they selected Jackson last year, but also excited because I realized that could trickle down to us nabbing Orakpo. I don’t want to be the team that makes a dumb reach and hooks someone else up this year..

by DoWork on Mar 25, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

remember in 2006 when the texans reached on mario williams and “hooked up” the saints with reggie bush and the titans with vince young… sure bush/young looked better this year than they have in the past but ild still take MW over them. You cant grade a draft a week after it happens.

You want to thank someone for grabbing orakpo?? I think you need to send that fruit basket to buffalo not KC. (I am now gonna make a hypocrite of myself by judging 2 players after one season but…) Picking maybin over orakpo made zero sense.

VOID!!!

by dt3 on Mar 25, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

If this was a warning not to reach for Dan Williams it might have made some sense.

I dont understand this line of thinking… you cant say one type of move will/wont work for us because it did/didnt work for them… Trading into the late first round to get a QB that was falling didnt work for the skins (Patrick Ramsey), but how did it work out for Green Bay (Aaron Rodgers).

As negatively as this post has been received by some it has been agreed with by others and (IMO) started some good discussion other than the eternal bradford/okung debate (which was all I wanted to do).

VOID!!!

by dt3 on Mar 25, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybin is another great example

I just don’t believe that making a move for Dan Williams would be wise in any regard for the Redskins past filling 1 hole (assuming Kemoeatu isn’t healthy) when we have a great deal of holes to fill.
I’m all for not reading about Bradford and Okung, but making a case for scooping up Dan Williams at 4? That’s silly.

by DoWork on Mar 25, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just don’t believe that making a move for Dan Williams would be wise in any regard for the Redskins past filling 1 hole when we have a great deal of holes to fill.

So does that mean picking Okung or Berry fills multiple holes?? As great as these players are none of them are filling up multiple spots. Question is where do you want to look at first, oline or dline?

We’ll see how silly Williams @4 would have been when a 3rd day NT goes up against the cowboys road-grading line (again if kemoeatu isnt around).

(But then again since this has written shannerpuss has made comments that makes me think he wont roll over as easily as previous administrations when Haney complains about playing NT).

VOID!!!

by dt3 on Mar 25, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okung and Berry won't fill multiple holes

(Antonio Cromartie might, but that’s a different story..)
But just picking an arbitrary need and drafting high for it isn’t in my humble opinion the way to do it. We could use a stud punter, but i don’t recommend getting him at #4. Extreme example, but I think it gets my point across..

by DoWork on Mar 26, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

(Antonio Cromartie might, but that’s a different story..)

ziiing

VOID!!!

by dt3 on Mar 26, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually

Berry does fix two spot by taking the FS position and moving Landry back to SS

by Nobetterthenbob on Mar 26, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

good point

VOID!!!

by dt3 on Mar 26, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I actually like this post...

dt3 is just trying to think outside this Bradford/Okung box that is tiresome and he has brought up a real-world example to justify the idea. He didn’t say it should happen or that it will work out…only that it was been done in the previous season by a team in an extremely similar situation. Great research…won’t happen though…I hope…

by wildinout on Apr 1, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

??

You said nothing in your post about the Chiefs reaching. You said the Chiefs surprised a lot of people, but you never said that you thought it was a bad pick. If you’re using that pick as your reference for this post, you can’t get mad that we read that as you thinking the Chiefs made the right pick. Otherwise, what’s the connection you’re trying to make? Then you went on to explain why the Redskins so badly need a NT, therefore implying that this, to you, is something very important. And yes, you said this is what you think the Redskins would do, not what they should do, but you gave a lot of reasons why it makes sense to make this move (to you), including the fact that you think that they don’t have any opportunity to get a valuable nose tackle in the draft.
You don’t have to explicitly say “I think this is a good idea” to show readers that you think something is a good idea. If that wasn’t your intention, then maybe you should consider your style of writing and rhetorical strategies.

by kseandoyle on Mar 25, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

whatever… Im not denying that I need to work on my writing skills but I think you are nitpicking my post because it doesnt agree with your line of thinking.

but you never said that you thought it was a bad pick.

again… never claimed it to be a good/bad pick. Just said this is what they did

If you’re using that pick as your reference for this post, you can’t get mad that we read that as you thinking the Chiefs made the right pick.

im not mad… but you cant get mad at me either because you picked up on an implication that wasnt there.

Otherwise, what’s the connection you’re trying to make?

2 teams switching to the 34

Then you went on to explain why the Redskins so badly need a NT, therefore implying that this, to you, is something very important. And yes, you said this is what you think the Redskins would do, not what they should do, but you gave a lot of reasons why it makes sense to make this move (to you), including the fact that you think that they don’t have any opportunity to get a valuable nose tackle in the draft.

are you just recapping the rest of my post or what do you disagree with here? Do you disagree that a 34 defense needs a strong nose? Do you disagree that other than Haynesworth it would be very hard to depend on anyone else on this roster to play a key position like that? Do you think New England and Pittsburgh are (IMO) overpaying Hampton and Wilfork because there are plenty of potential nosetackles available in the middle rounds?

You don’t have to explicitly say "I think this is a good idea" to show readers that you think something is a good idea

So I dont have to explicitly say that but you cant imply from the 2nd paragraph that I thought the pick was a reach? (I have since edited that part. Changing choosing to reaching to make it more clear). Again I admittedly should have written this differently but I think this is an example of you picking/choosing.

If that wasn’t your intention, then maybe you should consider your style of writing and rhetorical strategies.

If Shannahan hadnt made some statements that makes most of the point of this article baseless I probably would rewrite it so my points are more clear. But arguing with me about “you dont care what I meant, this is how I read it” is pointless. Either way (believe it or not) I appreciate the time/critiques.

VOID!!!

by dt3 on Mar 25, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

We can get a quality NT

later in the draft. Dan Williams would be a great pick up for us but with our O-line would really not make much sense. Terence Cody projects as a 2nd rounder & both Cam Thomas & Linval Joseph should be available for us in the 4th whereas all good LTs will most likely be gone by the 2nd rd.

by ENsDad27 on Mar 23, 2010 6:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Lets wait to see

what type of 3-4 we will be running this year, before going out and selecting a NT with our 1st. There may be others on the roster like Montgomery who can man the position for the time being.

by Tiller56 on Mar 24, 2010 11:49 AM EDT reply actions  

I think Montgomery and, hopefully, Kemoeatu will be sufficient at NT this year.

Still would like to pick up a younger guy either in the later rounds or undrafted. Scratch that if we get Suh or McCoy in the first. My point is we should address the D-line somewhere in this draft.

by johnnydee83 on Mar 26, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm a big fan of Dan Williams

…and I think he will start to rise up draft boards as we get closer to the draft. But I think he would be a luxury pick for us at the spots we have to select currently and unfortunately we can’t afford luxuries these days.

by Ken Meringolo on Mar 26, 2010 3:28 PM EDT reply actions  

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